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Author Topic: Water pressure potential  (Read 15646 times)

drakcore

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Water pressure potential
« on: November 13, 2009, 12:57:10 PM »
Hello everyone, it has been awhile since I've posted anything on this site so it's time for me to start adding my input.  :D

Below is a simple idea I was thinking of awhile back now.
Don't know if it is possible or not, so people don't hold back and poke away at it.

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Concept

1. A water tank of preference of size depending on scale / amount of energy you want, such as 10KL (10 000 liters).
1.a The water tank will have a hole at the top(above max water level) to allow pressure to equalize to outside pressure.(can't close the water loop or gravity potential will be lost)

2. A pipe is connected to the base of the tank which is connected to a generator(variable amount all connected in series) powered by water flow/pressure.
2.a All the piping from the tank and the generators need to be below the tank or gravity energy we trying to harness will be non-existent.
2.b The amount of generators you use will depend on the pressure you get from your water tank.

3. A water pump will be added after the last generator to pump the water back into the tank.
3.a The pipe from the pump which leads back to the tank must not be submerged in the water within the tank (don't close the water loop/ above water level).

Calculation / Awareness

1. The size of tank depends on how much energy you want / force / water pressure / amount of generators / electricity wanted.
1.a Allot more energy is needed to start the system to get the water flow going / generators rpm to optimal, then less energy is needed to maintain the flow. (possible pulsing to the pump)

2. The last generator or water pump at the end of series must have the water pressure coming into it almost 0 / zero  (this is the point where you have used the full potential of water pressure you are harnessing from your tank).

3. The pipe from the pump going into the tank must not be submerged (closes the water loop which in turn you lose the energy you are trying to harness from gravity).

*NB. All the piping from the tank through the generators / pump to the tank need to be as short as possible or you are wasting potential energy. (think of copper wire)

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truth

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Re: Water pressure potential
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2009, 08:49:01 PM »
Which device will be the overunity one? The generator or the pump?

Due to the parodox it takes the same peressure to lift the water as you obtain by letting it fall.

simple math
water pressure at base of tank = 1
pressure required to lift water into tank =1
Friction loss  = greater than 0

net result negative greater than 0

onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Water pressure potential
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2009, 11:16:16 PM »
just to help with a solution to using water or other liquids as a gravity type motor.

ResinRat2

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Re: Water pressure potential
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2009, 01:17:09 AM »
*** Post Deleted ***

onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Water pressure potential
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2009, 01:38:35 AM »
it may also be possible to just unbalance the pipette so when it starts to become top heavy the bottom of the pipette will rise above the water surface and the change in air pressure will allow the water to just leak out the bottom which causes the pipette to repeat the cycle.

by using a mass of capillary tube bundles you might be able to increase the torque at the pivot point to do some useful work.

water weighs in at 8.3454 pounds per U.S. gallon, so if you have a gallon of water difference in the top heavy portion of a mass pipette bundle then you could start to achieve some potential for doing a little work with some torque value.

it would probably be better to use Mercury, Mercury is actually the best for liquid gravity motors.

Liquid gravity motors have a greater advantage than solid gravity motors and that is liquid gravity motors work.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 02:22:50 AM by onthecuttingedge2005 »

onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Water pressure potential
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2009, 02:36:09 AM »
also remember that the correct diameter of the capillary tube is the science behind getting the liquid to draw up the tube properly. the smaller the inside diameter the better.

the tube on the far left is the same diameter as the ink tube in a standard disposable ink pen.

the green liquid is colored water.

drakcore

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Re: Water pressure potential
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2009, 12:20:12 PM »
Which device will be the overunity one? The generator or the pump?

Due to the parodox it takes the same peressure to lift the water as you obtain by letting it fall.

simple math
water pressure at base of tank = 1
pressure required to lift water into tank =1
Friction loss  = greater than 0

net result negative greater than 0

The water applying pressure would be the overunity medium to transfer gravity to a workable form, the generators using the pressure would the part transferring that potential to electric and the pump would be used to "close the circuit".


Water pressure at the "base" of a pipe of equal diameter and length (same dimensions) of another pipe and you would need the exact force+a little more to move the medium inside in that direction of the strongest directional force.
A tank containing allot more water / pressure / "water flow" than the pipe pushing it back into the tank I think is a different story.
*REF to DIA 1 and DIA 2.

So what stops us from simply putting a pipe at the base of the tank connecting it to generators and feeding it back into the tank?
Everything wants to balance in one way or another, so the water (medium) in the pipe will the same level of the water in the tank and all the pressure/potential will be lost in the tank/pipes.
*REF to DIA 3


DIA 4 is a simple example of breaking the balance to utilize those potentials.

DIA 5 is a more efficient system.
*Note the pump at the bottom at the end of the generators is used to complete the system using some electricity made by the generators to pump the water back into the tank.
*Be careful to use a pump in line with the requirements of your system.

truth

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Re: Water pressure potential
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2009, 05:53:09 PM »
"DIA 4 is a simple example of breaking the balance to utilize those potentials"

I am sorry to inform you that this statement is false!

When the closed system is broken the water level becomes that lower OPEN receiver, the pressure in the tube lowers, and the new water level becomes the SAME as the water level in the LOWER receiver!

If only it was simple?
 ::)     :)
Truth

truth

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Re: Water pressure potential
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2009, 06:04:27 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_paradox

Check out the link and you will see what you seem to missing!

Truth

TechStuf

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Re: Water pressure potential
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2009, 06:29:09 PM »
Perhaps there is greater promise in centrifugal systems.  Making use of prodigious pressures made available through a liquid flywheel.  The following is a simple 'thought experiment', rudimentarily demonstrating but one potential mitigation of the resistance to rotation of an outwardly migrating liquid mass in a centrifugal system.  As there is very little fritction in such a system, nearly all resistance would come solely from the outwardly migrating liquid mass.


Google, Schauberger Trout Turbine.



TS

truth

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Re: Water pressure potential
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2009, 07:51:05 PM »
4 Questions:

1. What provides power to turn the whole thing?
2. How do you get the liquid back to the center?
3. Where does the liquid go after the turbine?
4. How do you connect the turbines to anything while they are on a spinning wheel?

Truth

Less than five minutes!

lumen

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Re: Water pressure potential
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2009, 07:52:55 PM »
Interesting, but I would think accelerating the stationary water from the center of the hub to the outer turbines would take exactly the same energy as you may get from slowing the water down again at the outer turbines. ?


carsten888

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Re: Water pressure potential
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2010, 06:01:43 PM »
@onthecuttingedge2005
Quote
the tube on the far left is the same diameter as the ink tube in a standard disposable ink pen.
maybe you mean the far right?
I just cleaned out a pen. It only came to 1cm. Maybe it makes a difference if the material is glass or plastic. Someone mentioned using the plastic around the thin cords in telephone wire. They are great little tubes, but I just tried and they seem to have no cappilary action at all.

Anyone has any suggestions on material to use for cappilary action?

Dr

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Re: Water pressure potential
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2010, 06:37:54 PM »
HI ALL: Interesting topic, has anyone ever thought of inducing sound waves at the bottom of a tank of water with a great deal of pressure?  some type of diaphagm (sp) over the speaker to agitate the water to force it through a one way valve? just brain storming?

TechStuf

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Re: Water pressure potential
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2010, 06:04:35 AM »

This little guy seems to have the some of the finer details of cavitation energy and sonoluminescence worked out....and he pulls this off under some serious pressure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKPrGxB1Kzc


As knowledge is being greatly increased, and flying around the earth to and fro, perhaps it is not long....not long at all, until there is not a thing covered that will not be uncovered.


TS