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Author Topic: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine  (Read 24255 times)

Offline electricme

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Re: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2009, 02:12:58 PM »
tishatang,

Thank you for the kind words about my engine, the swivel bar as you mentioned can be replaced with a roller bearing if required.
I have no problem with this at all, the only reason I suggested a swivel bar, was because I simply didn't think of another way.
I think it is a bonza idea Chris. :D

If anyone can think up other improvements, or enhancements please do.

jim

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2009, 02:12:58 PM »

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2009, 03:15:34 PM »
No person has spoken to me about the above engine types you mention, and I have not know of this web site, nor been there.
No doubt some person some time will say they have known of my engine, well they didn't get it from me :), and I am not in the habit of stepping on anyones toes.
etc.

Jim,

I in no way meant to imply that you have borrowed your idea from anyone or anyplace.  I only wanted to let all know that this idea of yours was unfortunately not something new.  It is an engine design that has been imagined, built, tested, and even manufactured already.  You may be able to research those other designs to learn if yours has any new, useful features, or whether the technology you have come up with is already fully developed. 

You might also find the swashplate variation of the same type of engine interesting:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swashplate_engine  They are the engines comonly used in torpedos:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolving_cylinder_engine

M.

Offline electricme

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Re: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2009, 04:29:53 AM »
TO mondrasek,

I could roll over and meekly say you might be right and allow others to go into bat for me, but one needs to take a stand.
I have myself been wrong on a couple of occasions, on a different matter, when I realised my post was missleading, I immediately admitted my mistake and put the matter right. My credability was restored and people know I can be trusted.

In relation to your posts about my DUDGEON Engine, you are incorrect in forming your present assumptions.

I produce your post here so others can read and go and see for themselves.
I invite all persons who read this post to go to both these addresses and see themselves, double check or triple check.
Sit down and study it, print it out, show the information to a mechanical engineer before they post a reply, if they wish to do so.

Lets open this up and STURRrrrr the pot a bit.
I invite all the mechanics and mechanical engineers on earth to join this topic.

If there is an engine out there prior to my engine the same as mine, then I will be the very first to shuve my hand up and say sorry.
 
etc.

Jim,

I in no way meant to imply that you have borrowed your idea from anyone or anyplace.  I only wanted to let all know that this idea of yours was unfortunately not something new.  It is an engine design that has been imagined, built, tested, and even manufactured already.  You may be able to research those other designs to learn if yours has any new, useful features, or whether the technology you have come up with is already fully developed. 

You might also find the swashplate variation of the same type of engine interesting:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swashplate_engine  They are the engines comonly used in torpedos:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolving_cylinder_engine

M.
mondrasek,

Thanks for the 2 posts you have placed on this forum.

I was going to originally take a look at the web addresses you provided, (thank you), to verify your statements.
It seems in your mind I have borrowed someone elses ideas to make my engine design.
(Perhaps a private PM would have set this straight instead of public)
 
You "imply" above in your post my engine has been made before, and is "not something new".

You provide 2 Webb addresses to back up your above statement, not only to me but to every person who reads it, that it has been done before, this is implying I am a fraud.
 
Let those of my piers make their own judgement.

You say in the plural, implying there are many sites, OK, bring them forth here so we can all read them.
 
I noticed that tishatang and mw383 have taken the effort to look for themselves and they both publicly posted above my post here that you are wrong, and should take another look again and compare my engine with the others on wikipedia.

Since reading your secand post which appears under both tishatangs and mw383 posts, I can only assume you have read them, debunking your very first post.

It is obvious to myself that you probably read them, but have it fixed into your mind that my engine is not as it should be as your current understanding of it is.

So just in case you might be right, I went to each of the above web addresses you kindly provided (thankyou) and looked at each in turn, (just a few minutes ago).

As both tishatang and mw383 have stated, they are not in any way like my engine, as the DUDGEON Engine designer and you are NOT, you would have to agree to accept the fact I should know more about my own invention than yourself.
 
Both these engines do not look internally anything like my design at all, they both cannot came anywhere near the features my engine can provide.

The only similarity is the outside casing which is round, and contains the interior mechanical components which do not look anything like mine.

Their design is as you rightly say, a swish plate, in actual fact a rotating shaft, with a flat thick plate which is affixed on an angle to its central shaft, which rotates on its axis to push a piston left or right, the cylinders in both cases are parallel with the main shaft itself, the piston on mine is at 90 degrees to the rotating shaft. (I prove my point).

The design of these two engines in the section where the power is transferred to the push rods is totally different in design to my own engine, they both don't even come close to mine at all.

There is simply NO similarity between my engine, to the two machines that you have brought to my attention.

I will only say, all the machines can work in such a manner to bring power in a circular fashion to a central rotating shaft.

I also bring to your attention, another device that uses the swish plate technology, in the airconditioning industry.
I refer to car air conditioners, but not all of them. I have personally seen on a couple of occasions after pulling several different car airconditioners apart that there is a design which uses the swish plate technology.

In the last web address, it shows the engine casing which is joined in the center.
I have written on one of my last above posts, my engine casing is round and travels the full length, bolting to the end plate itself.
Why have I said this, just to head off anyone who might imply my outside casing is like theirs.

So mondrasek, I do appreciate your input, it's just at this point in time, on both occasions you posted you are wrong, about my engine and you do NOT seem to understand how it operates or the way it goes about the cycle or manner to produce work.
This is expected as it is completely new to the industry.
----------------------

Now to be fair to mondrasek, and to show him there are no bad feelings, at least from me, I would like to point out that it takes time to write a large post, or even several of them one after the other.

It seems this is the case, if you all check the times between the posts I made, mandrasek posted "between" the majority of posts I made that day and my last post describing my engine, he would not have had, all the information he needed to make his assumption.

I was still writing my posts up when he sent his first post between several of my bigger posts as I was making the original ones.

So he made a mistake by not having all the information available, to form his opinion, which anyone could have done.
So, I have tried to explain this, and I forgive him for it. :)
 
As far as I am concerned, this is the end of this matter.


jim electricme designer of the DUDGEON Engine

Offline electricme

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Re: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2009, 05:23:15 AM »
@All,

I have a refinement to the DUDGEON ENGINE
It has been pointed out to me the the Thrust Pin which connects to the Square Thrust Shaft, can also be modified by using a single but large pin roller bearing, so I have made a drawing so everyone can see what I mean.

This could replace a swivel arm, so making the engine easier to make, as you can all see, I am open to suggestions.
The function remains the same, there is no change to the output.
The bearing fits neatly into the machined groove, it's function is to raise the piston assembly up or down depending the position of the machined groove on the flywheel itself.

In my next post, I am going to ASTOUND the engineering world, with the immense possibilities of my DUDGEON ENGINE DESIGN.
You are about to see what this engine can be made to do, it relates to the power available on the output shaft, by greatly modifying the PROFILE of the MACHINED GROOVE, still using a single piston.



However if those people who wish to make a swivel arm, please do so.

I submit the drawing below

jim

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2009, 05:48:38 AM »
@ Jim:

I went to the sites provided by mondrasek and, as an aerospace class A machinist and design engineer for over 20 years, I can tell you that those designs are nothing like yours.

As you know, I don't have much time now, but when I do, I want to delve into your design and see what can be done with it.

A great idea is a great idea and I am not shocked when I have one and find it has been done before.  To me, this is just verification that the idea was good to begin with.  However, from what I have seen, this is not the case here at all.  I have never seen, heard about nor read about a design like what you propose here.

Carry on my friend.

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2009, 05:48:38 AM »
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Offline electricme

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Re: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2009, 06:02:43 AM »
@ALL,

Can a engine do away with the function of the humble gear box?

With the DUDGEON Engine, it can have this effect, only if you carry out the below modification.

As I have stated, this engine is like NO other engine, it's possibilities seem to be endless in what it can actually do.

The KEY is the modification of the Machined Groove on the FLYWHEEL.

OK, lets take a refresher look at whats happening here, so we need to go back to the 4 stroke principle a moment before I go into showing everyone the next step.

So lets begin on the uprising of the Compression stroke and start from there.
The piston rises upwards, compressing the mixture to be burnt, the spark plug fires and the piston is driven downwards in the POWER stroke to rise again on the EXHAUST stroke, then it descends once more as the INTAKE stroke, and rises again as the COMPRESSION stroke.


You all agree with this procedure, so lets write these STROKES as P1 and E1 and I1 and C1 .

Lets now take these 4 strokes and make them appear in a straight horizontal MOTION like the chart seen below.

Now, remembering the 4 strokes, place in your mind how it works as seen on the FIRST wriggly line chart below.

I have marked at each Top Line and each Bottom line the corresponding positions where each of the 4 strokes happen in relation to a horizontal line.

The spark plug has fired the fuel mixture, the result is
             P1 is POWER                stroke 1
             E1 is the EXHAUST        stroke 1
             I1 is the INTAKE           stroke 1
             C1 is the COMPRESSION stroke 1

Now the 1's at the end of the word "stroke" relate to the "series cycle" of the 4 strokes, it will become very clear shortly.

Look at the jpg below, and don't go to my next post until you completely understand this section. It is a KEY you need to know to be able to understand the next two posts.

jim
 


 

Offline electricme

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Re: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2009, 06:14:22 AM »
@ALL,
Now the next step to grasp a better understanding on how the Machined Groove works is to take away the sheets of paper I used to block off the bottom horizontal chart.

In the above chart we can see the 4 stroke principle has been allowed to form a single horizontal line.
Now I add onto this stroke more 4 stroke "series" of cycles, and add them together.

Lets take a look at what I mean.
We begin at P1, E1 I1 C1, now we add P1 E2 I2 C2 then add P3 E3 I3 C3 then all the way to P9 E9 I9 C9

We could make a chart to rise into the 50s if possible.

But now take a look at the below chart, it has grown, and the reason willl become apparent shortly.

The bottom chart goes from P1 up to P9

Study it carefully, remembering these vertical lines represent the firing order for a4 stroke engine.
If this was a steel bar attached to the DUDGEON Engine, it would blow your mind, lol.

jim
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2009, 06:14:22 AM »
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Offline electricme

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Re: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2009, 06:37:23 AM »
@ALL,

Now we come to the good bit.
Can the DUDGEON Engine replace a gearbox, "YES" if the right modification is carried out.

As I have been saying previously, the DUDGEON Engine is like NO other engine, its possibilities are simply enormous.
Most people who will come across this information for the first time need to re think the way the 4 stroke cycle engine works from its standard way over the last century or more.

Now here below you will see a circle, this represents the MACHINED FLYWHEEL with the MACHINED GROOVE inside it.

NOW, take the "ABOVE" 4 stroke principle line, and WRAP IT just inside the Flywheel as you see below.

NOW you have NINE or in the example below ELEVEN (11) power strokes in ONE (1) SINGLE REVOLUTION of the DUDGEON Engine. cool.

The engine will be able to put out 11 times of the power it would have if it was just a single cylinder.
This makes it a VERY POWERFUL engine at very low torque.
Something engineers all over the world have been only able to dream about until today.

How it works, the usual 4 cycle process takes place between P1 to P2, then continues until P11 is reached, then the Flywheel returns to the original position of P1 and it starts to do the same thing all over again, until you turn of the engine.

The Flywheel will need to be made larger to accomodate these extra mods.
There is a down side of this also, until the flywheel can over come slow inertia, it would be seen to be cogging, so another geared faster spinning wheel would need to be attatched to overcome that effect.

However if the same machined wave form was a lot shallower, there would be no problem.

There is a lightning storm arriving so gotta be off.

jim

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2009, 03:32:51 PM »
I went to the sites provided by mondrasek and, as an aerospace class A machinist and design engineer for over 20 years, I can tell you that those designs are nothing like yours.

To clarify:  Those final two links that I added were referred to as a "variants" of the same main idea presented by Jim.  That main idea is to replace the crankshaft in a typical reciprocating piston engine with a rotating grooved cam.  The swashplate design cited evolves this main idea further by changing the orientation of the pistons to the main shaft by 90 degrees so as to minimize the package (albeit likely with an increase in production cost and complexity).  Both use cams instead of crankshafts and achieve the goal of completing a four stroke power cycle in one revolution.  Interestingly, all the links show the improvement of having a second piston opposed 180 degrees to the one in Jim's design to immediately double the power, something I thought you all might find useful.

Sorry I cannot produce a link to a site that describes a design exactly like Jim's, or even the one from Popular Mechanics that I mentioned in my first post.  But that was not my purpose.  I did not want to dissuade anyone from pursuing whatever it is you think you have here.  I was just pointing out the FACT that this main idea is in no way new.  So unless there is something unique about Jim's take on this main idea, your efforts are duplicating those of others who have proceeded you.  And there is nothing wrong with that if your intentions are to "learn by doing" or some other such noble purpose.  That would be great.  But if your purpose is to develop what you believe to be a unique technology for the benefit of mankind, then you might want know more about similar devices that have previously been developed.  My purpose was only to bring those other devices to your attention.  The choice to research them is up to you.  I'm not going to do it for you and definitely not for the purpose of trying to stop you from attaining whatever goal it is you desire.  The information I gave was just that, information.  Use it how you want.

The design I mentioned that was featured in Popular Mechanics is really the most similar to Jim's that I can recall, if you have an interest.  I know I saw it at the barber shop I have frequented since I moved to my current job.  So I would estimate that the issue is between 10 and 16 years old.  BTW, one of the claims for that particular engine was that it eliminated the need for a transmission.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 08:36:46 PM by mondrasek »

Offline electricme

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Re: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2009, 03:25:48 AM »
Hmmmm, it seems we have here someone who is on a dedicated negative mission, well lets see who is the one who brings discredit on who.

I present Pirate88179 full text so others who read it can make their own mind up about the situation.
The last line just about says it all.
   
@ Jim:

I went to the sites provided by mondrasek and, as an aerospace class A machinist and design engineer for over 20 years, I can tell you that those designs are nothing like yours.

As you know, I don't have much time now, but when I do, I want to delve into your design and see what can be done with it.

A great idea is a great idea and I am not shocked when I have one and find it has been done before.  To me, this is just verification that the idea was good to begin with.  However, from what I have seen, this is not the case here at all.  I have never seen, heard about nor read about a design like what you propose here.

Carry on my friend.

Bill

Ha ha, thank you Bill, those are excellent words and it is a pleasure to have you here. :)

Yes readers, take a look at the second paragraph of mondraseks above post, he says and I quote "Sorry I cannot produce a link to a site that describes a design exactly like Jim's", or even the one from "Popular Mechanics" and goes on to say as a way of escape to distance himself "But it was not my purpose".

So what was your purpose? if it is not to build up and edify? Is it to pull down and destroy?

Readers are not dumb, they know if someone has a negative opinion, which is the reflection of the inner person with a negative outlook in life, weather it is of the topic at hand or other, but they also are able to understand the depth or degree of it also, and they will know which person who is of a higher calibre.

So my main idea is not new,  ::), therefore, if a vehicle manufacturer brings out a "new" model it's not new, according to the opinion by mondrasek. Once again people will understand.

I haven't told a single person to make my engine, its a free world, they can make it or any other engine if they wish.
I am not twisting anyones arm over this to go make it.
Have you ever designed an engine? Obviously by your remarks, you have no idea.

Thank you for bring those other devices to my attention.
Once again the readers will be able to read between the lines of what your main purpose is.

Lastly, for the benefit of the readers, I have never approached mondrasek to do any research on my behalf, or asked for his opinion, at any time over the years.

I would not want a negative biased opinion anyway, therefore as with all designers or inventors, I see it as my right, to see if a suggestion is suitable for the purpose at hand. If I choose or choose not to use it, that is my democratic right the same as yours.

If the knocker, gets the humphs, because the "advice" was not heeded, or can't get their own way, then they need to have a little rest away from that which might be seen as a problem to them.

I have examined all the input from everyone over the last few days, 90 percent is very positive and edifying, building up, but frankly mondraseks is inconsistent, says something on one post, then denies it on another, he has nothing positave to say.

So, thank you for your input mondrasek, but if anyone displaying such severe negative attributes were employed by me, their sacking would be immanent and swift, I'm sure you would have to agree.

jim

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2009, 03:25:48 AM »
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Offline mondrasek

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Re: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2009, 06:08:26 PM »
Yes readers, take a look at the second paragraph of mondraseks above post, he says and I quote "Sorry I cannot produce a link to a site that describes a design exactly like Jim's", or even the one from "Popular Mechanics" and goes on to say as a way of escape to distance himself "But it was not my purpose".

LOL!  That is a very cynical interpretation of what I wrote, let alone my intentions.

So what was your purpose? if it is not to build up and edify? Is it to pull down and destroy?

My purpose was exactly as stated:  To inform that the idea was not new and provide references to that fact.  That was not in and of itself negative in anyway.  I provided information that may have assisted in your endeavors, nothing else.  You may not have known of these similar devices and wasted efforts duplicating them.  But, more importantly, you could still research them to see if you could learn anything to further your own design, assuming it has unique features and/or capabilities that would make it more useful than those other designs.

Do you think the designers of any new device do not study any and every similar and useful device first?  That is exactly how they learn!  And that is exactly why I studied the engine design in Popular Mechanics when I ran across it years ago: because it was intriguing and embodied much that I could learn.

I am not sure why you keep taking issue with my input.  You are reading in some sub text or ulterior motives that I do not have.  I apologize if you think I have attacked you for I have not.  And seriously, I believe it has been the other way around!  And I cannot fathom a rational reason why.  So I will just leave it at that.  You can continue the slander and veiled accusations of evil intent if you wish.  And if you choose to do so, I gladly give you the last word!

Offline electricme

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Re: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2009, 11:55:35 PM »
LOL

jim

Offline MW383

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Re: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2009, 08:36:15 PM »
Jim,

OK I am now just getting back into study of your motor. I apologize for the delay, life has been extremely hectic. Anyway I see 2 halves to your assembly. The first half is rotating, the other is stationary? The rotating half would have the machined groove? The stationary half contains the piston and connecting rod (for lack of better term)? The end of rod interfaces with machined groove via a bearing of sorts?

Sorry for so many questions... I understand the principle with what your groove does and am trying to equate it into construction / mechanical motion.

Now more questions... Is the groove also driving a valvetrain? And is the valvetrain part of an external head assembly that bolts on to outside diameter of stationary half?

Once I understand how this works exactly, I will get it solid modelled in CAD program and send you the files if you like.

Best regards,

MW

Offline electricme

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Re: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2009, 04:39:30 AM »
@MW

Jim,

OK I am now just getting back into study of your motor. I apologize for the delay, life has been extremely hectic. Anyway I see 2 halves to your assembly. The first half is rotating, the other is stationary? The rotating half would have the machined groove? The stationary half contains the piston and connecting rod (for lack of better term)? The end of rod interfaces with machined groove via a bearing of sorts?

Sorry for so many questions... I understand the principle with what your groove does and am trying to equate it into construction / mechanical motion.

Now more questions... Is the groove also driving a valvetrain? And is the valvetrain part of an external head assembly that bolts on to outside diameter of stationary half?

Once I understand how this works exactly, I will get it solid modelled in CAD program and send you the files if you like.

Best regards,

MW

That's correct, the right disk is stationary, the left disk is the flywheel, that is the one which contains the groove, the groove is machined to whatever wave profile the designer wants the engine to do.

On the right disk, there is a single deep vertical groove, this is to take the piston shaft, it's job is to prevent the piston shaft from moving sideways, we all got to forget about a conrod flying around with a crankshaft.

The "End Rod" as you called it is just a square shaft, the top of this rod the piston is secured, it does "not" wobble as is normally done, but if the engine designer wishes to do so, it's up to him.
Almost the whole length (3 sides), of the square shaft, fits snugly inside the fixed non rotating end plate, the 4th side of the square shaft is presented this face, towards the rotating flywheel.

At the bottom of this square shaft is where a large stubby (very short) axle needs to be secured.
The outer section protrudes into the revolving groove section.

As the flywheel rotates, the stubby axle can only follow the groove, so the direction of the square shaft is either going upward, or downward.
-----------------------

I decided to locate the valve timing arrangement on the main rotating shaft itself but as close as possible to the side of the flywheel.
It could be setup by maching another 2 separate smaller grooves, one controlling the inlet valve, the other the outlet valve.
However it is much easier making a smaller cam lobe fitting.
       
The valve timing is set by the "ANGLE" position of the groove, as the upward exhaust stroke just begins, then as the square piston rod reaches the top of it's travel, the cam lowers the valve in the correct position relating to the groove.

The air/mixture intake is set up in a similar fashion, but once again the ANGLE position of the groove sets this also.

The person designing the groove would need to figure out these 2 positions and make a slip on lobe cam, which could be key wayed to the output shaft.
Therefore, there is no longer any need for a "long" camshaft, a single cam can form the functions of several pistons and associated valve trains.

A line drawn from the center of the main shaft towards the outer edge of the flywheel will give the angle that is needed to set the positions of the cam lobes.

jim
   

Offline MW383

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Re: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2009, 08:06:02 PM »
Jim,

I am starting to get this drawn up in 3D cad. What I have is probably not correct but I will forward pictures anyway so you can mark up for corrections. Bit by bit I can get this fully modelled.

, MW383

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Introducing The Dudgeon Engine
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2009, 08:06:02 PM »

 

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