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Author Topic: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model  (Read 182557 times)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #75 on: October 28, 2009, 12:34:55 AM »
Howard and Ladies and Gentlemen:

You really have to look at all angles before you claim victory.  All that you are looking at here is the equivalent of a child shifting his weight on a swing so that he can swing higher and higher.  Howard's rotating servo mechanism is the equivalent of the child shifting his position on the swing.

Therefore, the energy source that is making the oscillator swing higher and higher is the battery pack that is affixed to the pendulum.

Here is the test that Howard should have done to double check his results:  Remove the magnet array and start the pendulum and make the servo system go back and forth just like he does in his clip.  You will see the pendulum swing higher and higher, confirming that the moving servo itself is what is adding energy to the swinging pendulum.  What is making the servo go back and forth?  The answer is the batteries.

The reason the pendulum swings higher and higher is because chemical energy in the batteries is being transformed into more mechanical energy being stored in the swinging pendulum.

You guys have got to put on your thinking caps.

MileHigh

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Offline broli

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #76 on: October 28, 2009, 12:49:18 AM »
Howard and Ladies and Gentlemen:

You really have to look at all angles before you claim victory.  All that you are looking at here is the equivalent of a child shifting his weight on a swing so that he can swing higher and higher.  Howard's rotating servo mechanism is the equivalent of the child shifting his position on the swing.

Therefore, the energy source that is making the oscillator swing higher and higher is the battery pack that is affixed to the pendulum.

Here is the test that Howard should have done to double check his results:  Remove the magnet array and start the pendulum and make the servo system go back and forth just like he does in his clip.  You will see the pendulum swing higher and higher, confirming that the moving servo itself is what is adding energy to the swinging pendulum.  What is making the servo go back and forth?  The answer is the batteries.

The reason the pendulum swings higher and higher is because chemical energy in the batteries is being transformed into more mechanical energy being stored in the swinging pendulum.

You guys have got to put on your thinking caps.

MileHigh

I partially agree. It's not a battery pack it's the magnet itself. To get rid of this argument it should be centered or even moved to the other side so that it technicality loses energy every cycle. But that doesn't explain the previous video which was centered  ;) .


Offline spoondini

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #77 on: October 28, 2009, 12:53:27 AM »
@milehigh,
     Good observation. I watched the video again and the megnetic array is not perfectly centered, this could indeed be the cause of acceleration.  The center of gravity does appear to shift.  My jury just went back to deliberation.  I've been meaning to make a 1/100th scale of this thing, pure mechanical to validate but time is hard to come by.

Offline markdansie

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #78 on: October 28, 2009, 01:36:10 AM »
@spoondini,
I got your message but computer froze everytime I tried to reply. Easy to email me markdansie@bigpond.com
Kind Regards


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #79 on: October 28, 2009, 02:25:04 AM »
Well, very good !
Congratulations !
Can you get the energy out of the magnet array at the top via coils to turn the drive magnet to get rid of batteries all in all ?
Then it would be the real breakthrough, if you could show this without batteries.

To turn the magnet by 180 degrees should not take much energy and could probably be made also mechanically somehow..
Looking forward to see an update.
I will put this onto the news.

Regards, Stefan.

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #79 on: October 28, 2009, 02:25:04 AM »
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Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #80 on: October 28, 2009, 03:51:26 AM »
use a really loose bearing in place of the servo. as the arm falls to one side so should the top magnet support.

something like this;

Offline WattBuilder

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #81 on: October 28, 2009, 04:25:45 AM »
I'm sure the torque can be increased through some trial/error in the mag arrays.  I think you've done it man.

@Spoodini,
Yup, just like we post before about using different types of magnetic arrays. We can always increase the amount of energy gain by using stronger magnets. Cheers!

Nice indeed, you pulled out that servo installation pretty quickly. I bet this will catch some attention, remember to give assistance to replicators and ignore the skeptics.

Howard what's your take on putting this system horizontally without the pendulum concept.

@Broli,
I had the parts already and the hobby store was close.
Sure,
Replicators I’m at your service.

As far as this system horizontally ?  I’m not at the point yet to take on that challenge. Maybe one day.

Are you going to apply for the Overunity prize ? [when it runs itself and produces power]

I wonder if a small-scale version can be built ?
Where are all those people that spent their time on the Mylow Motor,
looks like it's time for another replication

@PowerCat
No, But If Stefan decides to award me the title or trophy I’ll accept it but as far as the cash. I will request for him to either and pass it to the next winner or charity at his discretion.

As for a smaller scale version? Possible but the larger the YOG the larger the gain.

Here is the test that Howard should have done to double check his results:

@MileHigh
Ummm,  Of course I did.. I do have it right here you know.
As far as the child shifting the weight? It does to a point but, for the child to gain higher and higher swings. The child must add more energy to the next swing then the previous amount of energy in the first swing, in order to gain.

I don’t know how to increase the energy of the servo rotating 180 degrees? Do you?

Did you forget to add in the energy gain from the magnetic array as well?

MileHigh don’t forget to put on your own thinking cap.

Can you get the energy out of the magnet array at the top via coils to turn the drive magnet to get rid of batteries all in all ?

@Stefan,
Your absolutely right !!!
If I cannot get rid of the batteries all in all. Judging by what other members have proven all ready using coils to collect energy from the magnets as it passes….. it will be awfully darn close !

Cheers everyone !


Howard
YOG Gain Video  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq5r08eqgsk
 

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #81 on: October 28, 2009, 04:25:45 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #82 on: October 28, 2009, 05:28:32 AM »
Howard:

Quote
As far as the child shifting the weight? It does to a point but, for the child to gain higher and higher swings. The child must add more energy to the next swing then the previous amount of energy in the first swing, in order to gain.

That is not correct.  The child just has to add the same amount of energy each time.  Each additional addition of energy by the child results in the swing getting slightly higher, exactly like you are demonstrating in your clip.

The principle behind the operation of your device is that every time you get to the end of a swing, your servo turns the magnet around by 180 degrees.  That we can agree on, correct?

You note that the center of mass of the magnet is not centered relative to the axis of the arm.

Suppose you imagine a much more idealized situation, the upper arm of the pendulum swings to the far left and slows down and comes to a stop for a fraction of a second.  At that moment your servo swings the mass of the magnet around by 180 degrees in 1/10 of a second.

To make it easier to visualize let's just imagine that the arm is not moving at all and has no momentum when in fact is slows down, stops, and then reverses direction.

So what happens when the servo rotates the magnet by 180 degrees, knowing that the magnet's center of gravity is not lined up with the center axis of the arm?  Momentum has to be conserved, so when the mass of the magnet swings from the left to the right (the 180 degree turn) we know that the arm has to move to the left a bit.

In other words, when the mass of the magnet swings from left to right, the arm moves a tiny bit from the right to the left to converve the momentum.  Can you see this?

So what does that mean?  When the arm moves a tiny bit from the left to the right, your set of barbell weights at the bottom of the pendulum moves UP a tiny bit.  That adds gravitational potential energy to the system.

Exactly the same thing happens on the other side of the swing.  The mass swings from the right to the left, the arm moves a tiny bit from the left to the right, and the set of the barbell weights at the bottom of the pendulum moves UP a tiny bit, adding gravitational potential energy to the system.

Another way of saying all of this is that each time you move the magnet with the servo, you are increasing the angle of the swing.  Increasing angle of the swing means that the barbell weights at the bottom of the pendulum are being raised higher and higher every time you flip the mass of the magnet around.

That's the real deal Howard - this will work with or without the array of magnets, the energy comes from the batteries, I suggest that you check again.

MileHigh

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #83 on: October 28, 2009, 05:56:46 AM »
What matters most.

input watts vs. output watts, period.

nothing else matters.

Offline ATT

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #84 on: October 28, 2009, 07:06:51 AM »
Taking a cue from onthecuttingedge and taking into consideration MileHigh's sage advice, have you considered playing around with something along these lines?

onthecuttingedge had a good thought but you need the magnet to turn the other way at the bottom of the swing.

MileHigh makes a good point, but if the mag-array really does have anything to do with it, it'd be interesting to follow-up on that theory.

In this case, the pivot-counterweight and the magnet-weight could both be close to the same weight (favoring the counterweight), since your now depending on geometry and gravity to change the configuration of the top pivot arm.

After some tuning and possible adjustment of the bottom counterweight to allow for the additional mass imposed by the top counterweight, all things should again be 'equal' on the 'playing-field' and any significant additional force would necessarily have to come from the overhead magnetic array, should any additional force be available.

The bias shown would only put the magnet about 8-deg off-center, which shouldn't effect much as far as flux-lines are concerned.

Tony

« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 07:30:44 AM by ATT »

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #84 on: October 28, 2009, 07:06:51 AM »
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Offline markdansie

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #85 on: October 28, 2009, 12:36:37 PM »
@spoondini,
thanks for bringing this to my attention. I am doing the maths on it. The best way is to convert everything to joules. I can see potential in this and must congradulate Wattbuilder on his work so far. As always I will take my time with this before giving an opinion.
I have already thought of a number of ways to turn those magnets.
Mark

Offline 0c

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #86 on: October 28, 2009, 03:59:25 PM »
WattBuilder,

Did this video provide any of the inspiration for your magnetically assisted YOG?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP_o1_jBUSM

Maybe you could give AdminOnDuty some ideas about how to flip the magnet?

0c


Offline spoondini

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #87 on: October 28, 2009, 06:00:20 PM »
Interesting.  Adminonduty's experiment is essentially the same as the YOG, a pendulum based magnetic gate.  Posted on YouTube April 29, 2009

Offline WattBuilder

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #88 on: October 28, 2009, 06:46:15 PM »
@All
One method to replace the trigger or the hand controller is to use a micro controller called BasicStamp it uses 9vdc and is programmable.
It can be bought at RadioShack.

@MileHigh
Your still blocking out the energy gain from the magnetic array. Even if you can argue your way to an “energy natural carrier” the energy gain from the magnetic array is still there? 

That’s the real deal MileHigh – Your best argument will not come close to disproving energy gains from the magnetic array. Have you even seen my videos?

@onthecuttingedge and ATT
Interesting point of view. Great work guys. I what to point out my magnetic array does not swing perfectly centered in the array. I’m getting a twist force or a force that wants to push it out the array from the sides before the end of array. You guys are on the right track when using a non-servo method. A “U” shape array may keep it in.

@OC
Nice find.
No that video did not inspire me. I believe I may have inspire him. The other way around my video was posted on April 19, 2009 and my patents were well before that date too.

My inspiration came from Howard Johnson and he should get recognized for his work.


Howard
YOG Gain Video  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq5r08eqgsk


Offline powercat

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #89 on: October 28, 2009, 09:25:18 PM »
MileHigh
I think  Howard already prove how the magnet array generates more power in one of his earlier videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gekDM8vg16k
The child on a swing problem.
You have virtually came up with one solution in your post.
Quote
You note that the center of mass of the magnet is not centered relative to the axis of the arm.
As Howard has the only device at the moment it is up to him if he wants to check this.
Apart from centring the magnet on axis arm, I think the magnet could have a counterbalance added to it, so it was equally balanced on the axis

cat

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #89 on: October 28, 2009, 09:25:18 PM »

 

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