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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: xenomorphlabs on July 26, 2009, 02:00:09 AM

Title: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on July 26, 2009, 02:00:09 AM
A thread to discuss magnetic resonance devices and present/share experimental data or ideas for anyone that builds or intends to build Don Smith based systems.

Here is a few links to understand the concepts:

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Smith.pdf
http://www.free-energy-info.com/Chapter3.pdf
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2820531/don_smith_free_energy/

Good Luck to all experimenters
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: flathunter on July 26, 2009, 11:35:07 AM
http://0049606.netsolhost.com/projects/tc.htm

http://0049606.netsolhost.com/projects/U.S.%20Patent%20No.%200462418.pdf

http://www.28an.com/altenergypro/index.htm



Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on July 26, 2009, 03:17:14 PM
Obsolete
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Paul-R on July 26, 2009, 04:06:46 PM
There are already two threads discussing Don Smith:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=502.0
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4233.0

It is no wonder that this board has over 7,000 threads and has
become unnavigable.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on July 26, 2009, 04:15:58 PM
Thanks Paul-R.
My forum-search did not yield these threads, otherwise i would have stayed away from opening it.
I will have it removed then.
There is no constructive discussion possible about this anyway  ;)
Regards,
Xenomorphlabs
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: giantkiller on July 28, 2009, 05:33:13 AM
There isn't?
Do you see how simple his builds are? I pushed this 2.5 years ago.

There is no constructive discussion possible about this anyway  ;)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Paul-R on July 28, 2009, 04:20:23 PM
There isn't?
Do you see how simple his builds are? I pushed this 2.5 years ago.
Do you understand Don's circuits in
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Smith.pdf
Can you reconcile the picture on page 4/92 with the circuit on
page 34/92 (if they belong together)?

Also the necessary circuit to go with the plasma ball.

See also
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter3.pdf
from page 20 onwards.

Paul-R
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 04, 2009, 01:56:02 PM
Quote
Quote
Do you understand Don's circuits in
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Smith.pdf
Can you reconcile the picture on page 4/92 with the circuit on
page 34/92 (if they belong together)?

Also the necessary circuit to go with the plasma ball.

See also
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter3.pdf
from page 20 onwards.

All your answers are in here :  ;)

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=502.0
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4233.0
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 04, 2009, 07:06:10 PM
Hi Xeno & all,

OK, here's what I plan to build fairly soon, exact component values have not been put in yet, some future derivation will include them (especially if I can get it COP>1). I will be keeping the gap breakdown quite low voltage to start with <2kV because my output bridge (10) will be only 20KV rated, but the diodes are bery fast 10nS recovery and the first collector cap (12) is also very fast.

So I can go up to around 5MHz on primary tuning before any dropoff occurs. The coil unit will be  1:4 straight ratio, but if don is correct then the that ratio could well be higher when "magnetic resonance" is achieved.

I think the voltage control shunt (8) is important and R maybe critical? You want to damp the coil (7) ends to force nodes (and thus half wave mag resonance) but not too much so as not to kill any magic? This maybe the only earth reference the cicuit needs.

note:
I cannot replicate dons work, because I don't have the exact components, but this derivation I hope might uncover some exotic effect.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 04, 2009, 08:01:19 PM
@Yucca : Do you have the possibility to ground your HV transformer (3) too?

I believe that the earth connection at (7) is to provide a way for free electrons to enter the secondary (exactly like in Kapanadze´s secondary). But that`s just in theory.
If you use a variable resistor as indicated in the diagram, then that might work as a current limiter even.
Smith himself has stated that
Quote
the shunt is to generate a better signal
.


How will you evaluate the output on the cap ? I think you need some kind of load to see the energy in action and to be able to measure the power.

Good to see that you have a go with the device and good luck with building it !
I am also waiting for some more parts and will continue working on mine, which actually is in principle the same device except for the voltage levels
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 04, 2009, 09:11:43 PM
@Yucca : Do you have the possibility to ground your HV transformer (3) too?
Yes, I will definitely try this. Grounded to common earth and seperate earths. Also I will try grounding output stage -ve.

I believe that the earth connection at (7) is to provide a way for free electrons to enter the secondary (exactly like in Kapanadze´s secondary). But that`s just in theory.
If you use a variable resistor as indicated in the diagram, then that might work as a current limiter even. Smith himself has stated that .

I will probably use longish chain of cheap 0.25 watt resistors for this in a breadboard, each one is good for 150V at least. Then I can vary the resistance by swapping resistors etc.

I plan to make a standalone earthpoint in my garden for this, some stout copper wire buried as deep as I can get it. Maybe in spiral form? (but which way to spiral? lol)

How will you evaluate the output on the cap ? I think you need some kind of load to see the energy in action and to be able to measure the power.

Good to see that you have a go with the device and good luck with building it !
I am also waiting for some more parts and will continue working on mine, which actually is in principle the same device except for the voltage levels

I will definitely try lamps on the output; neon to 12V 220V filament, LEDs etc. If I feel the output is fairly well behaved I may even scope it, but this is definitely only maybe.

Thanks for the good luck. I like your build here and look forward to you trying different things with it when your parts arrive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQAvZtjzfKM

If you wind your secondary so the winds are very evenly spaced you may get better efficiency because it will increase the Q of the coil drastically.

I will post my build in this thread as it progresses, the thread title fits perfectly.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: flathunter on August 04, 2009, 09:21:24 PM
Thanks for the great diagram Yucca - helps me more than you'd imagine.  I'm gonna be continuing on my quest to sort out part 3 on the above diagram - the high voltage flyback.

You said you used a 13005 transistor in your power supply.  Is there anything else I should know about it, before i go asking around the markets for it?  a Voltage or amp rating?  I realise the transistor is the most important piece in the circuit - Sorry to pester with questions!  I'll also go looking for the FWBR - but its difficult as i'm living abroad and explaining that i need 0.5mm wire can sometimes cause problems  ;D

Hope the exotic effects come quickly......Be Lucky! 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 04, 2009, 10:02:51 PM
Thanks for the great diagram Yucca - helps me more than you'd imagine.  I'm gonna be continuing on my quest to sort out part 3 on the above diagram - the high voltage flyback.

You said you used a 13005 transistor in your power supply.  Is there anything else I should know about it, before i go asking around the markets for it?  a Voltage or amp rating?  I realise the transistor is the most important piece in the circuit - Sorry to pester with questions!  I'll also go looking for the FWBR - but its difficult as i'm living abroad and explaining that i need 0.5mm wire can sometimes cause problems  ;D

Hope the exotic effects come quickly......Be Lucky!

Hi Flathunter,

When I originally purchased the 13005 transistors from ebay china I was looking for good voltage and high speed, I think if you can match the voltage tolerances and switching speed with some other device then it should work good for you, I´m not even getting close to pushing its max pulse current, but it´s close to breakdown with regard to voltage kickback I think.

The dual toroid choke on the input power rail is very important for cool running and efficiency and also less RF back into the supply, you want fast transients (in and out) to be ever so slightly smoothed.

I know what you mean about living abroad, I live in Spain and although I try to speak Spanish it is probably the level of a 3 year old at the moment lol. If you take this datasheet to the markets then they might be able to give you something just as good, maybe better:

http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf-datasheets/Datasheets-8/DSA-154785.pdf

P.S.
You can maybe use the original flyback primary switching transistor from the TV if you can locate it on the board, usually close to the flyback. Then use a 1k pot for biasing the base and bring it up real slow starting with the base grounded by the pot. Do this at 5V and you should hear oscillation begin at a certain point on the pot, after tuning for loudest then make a permanent divider using resistors. You need at least 0.5W capability for the lowest ohm resistor.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 04, 2009, 10:22:53 PM
The 13005 has been used in the past in some Tv's they can be bought under the code of MJE13005

You will find that a line output transistor is as good if not better and higher voltage.
I would use something like a BU2508AF or with integral diode BU2508DF

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: flathunter on August 05, 2009, 07:27:01 AM
Thanks Peter and Yucca!

I'm off transistor hunting later today, and some good news concerning my video camera.  It seems to be back in working order after its disagreement with the tesla coil.....perhaps just low on baterries  ;D  As soon as I get anywhere close to finishing the power supply, i'll get some vids of my setup on youtube.

Happy experimenting!
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Paul-R on August 05, 2009, 05:34:55 PM


All your answers are in here :  ;)

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=502.0
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4233.0
They contain nothing.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 05, 2009, 05:56:20 PM
Here's another better vid of the bare bones HV supply built with a LOPTX:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMl3pXvJ-mY

I also was experimenting with the supplies lowest ranges and managed to light a neon (and the power LED) with the input of 1.5V 1mA, see photos below.

So this unit covers uqite a broad power range and I think will be great for experimenting with.

edit:
the power indicator LED was being lit thanks to the inductive kickback in the primary. It won´t light on 1.5V
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: flathunter on August 05, 2009, 08:39:31 PM
The flyback is alive!!!!  Muhuhuhuhuuuh.

Thanks again Yucca.  great link with the rabid monkey.  I grabbed 2 old metal transistors from the market, rated with plenty of volts and amps (only 1 MHz...well, thats what the guy said...), so a bit slower.  I havent put in a choke, but i have 2 joule thiefs and one is definitely gonna be converted into the choke for this high voltage source.  I just tried the first transistor with no resistors or capacitors, and bobs your uncle about a centimetre long spark.  I used an old (i thought empty) 12 V battery and thats why i didnt bother with resistors or choke - just wanted to see if i'd got the pins right, and if it was ready for action.  Pleased to see it was!  I'll have a video for inspection when i've made it look a bit more presentable....
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 05, 2009, 10:34:09 PM
The flyback is alive!!!!  Muhuhuhuhuuuh.

Thanks again Yucca.  great link with the rabid monkey.  I grabbed 2 old metal transistors from the market, rated with plenty of volts and amps (only 1 MHz...well, thats what the guy said...), so a bit slower.  I havent put in a choke, but i have 2 joule thiefs and one is definitely gonna be converted into the choke for this high voltage source.  I just tried the first transistor with no resistors or capacitors, and bobs your uncle about a centimetre long spark.  I used an old (i thought empty) 12 V battery and thats why i didnt bother with resistors or choke - just wanted to see if i'd got the pins right, and if it was ready for action.  Pleased to see it was!  I'll have a video for inspection when i've made it look a bit more presentable....

Great! More power Igor (cue maniachal laughter)!

The input power choke will let you run cooler.

edit:
look forward to the vid.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: flathunter on August 10, 2009, 08:35:19 PM
Sorry Yucca - technical difficulties are holding back the vid.  I blew both my metal transistors when i tried my newer 12V battery.  Its 7A.H.  Is this far too much???  Should i be looking for a smaller battery?  The old 12V 7 A.H battery worked great, perhaps cos its almost empty - but the spark was only 1cm....i wanted something a little bigger!

I just tried taking the transistors out of the old monitor i used for the flyback.  First transistor - nothing from the old battery, not even the whining sound it made when i got a 1cm spark.  So, i get out the new battery, and i blow another transistor, but in a much more spectacular fashion than the first two metal ones.  Pieces of it flying round the room, and my wife heard it from the kitchen.  I'll be wearing gloves and goggles before i try any more!
 ;D

Hope the work in progress is going well!
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 11, 2009, 08:41:50 PM
Hi flathunter,

Sorry to hear about the exploding tranny, tell the wife it's all in the name of science, a master plan to save the world as we know it, lol, that's what I say anyway.

bring it up on 6v first if possible, use a wallwart or something like that, you shouldn't need more than 500mA even at 12V. If your tranny popped on 12V then something must be wrong. If you want to keep working with your 12V batt then you could always put a 12V auto bulb in the +ve supply line, this should still give you enough juice to get oscillation but it should stop tranny blowing in any bad configuration.

Are you building the circuit diagram I posted?

I just salvaged another as new flyback trafo (and a heap of other parts) thanks to a dumped 22inch tube TV. with this I intend to build a module to explore low power operation, not the smith device, just a standalone system built for max efficiency, and then I´ll do calorimetry on the OP. I´ll keep my existing module as a general HV PSU.

I've received the first of my ebay HV components, $20 worth of 40kV resistors from the USA. 500k and 1M, 1M should be good for making 1000X voltage divider for using normal DMM on DC HV nodes, and if I can see good behaviour for long enough I may even use it with my scope? I'm awating my diodes and caps.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: flathunter on August 13, 2009, 03:53:20 PM
Hi Yucca!

Yes, I am trying to replicate your power supply - but some things are a little different because i'm doing my best with whats at hand.  Things have been going pretty badly today.  Perhaps i've got her wired up all wrong, perhaps it just depends on the transistor.  At the moment my 12 V battery just keeps burning through various connections.  I havent had any output spark since the first transistor i tried, which only gave 1 cm.  That was from my old battery - i've measured its voltage at 5.7V, and it provides under an amp, but not for long!   And I got this spark with no resistors, choke, or capacitor.  Now i'm trying with your circuit added on, but i dont have the ceramic cap - i'll pick one up this weekend, as well as a load of transistors.  Like I say, it keeps burning through the connections....does this mean that the transistor has already been fried?  I realise some go much quieter, whilst others prefer to die in a blaze of glory!

Heres a photo of my setup - amongst the transistors sitting in the graveyard by the flyback you may spot the one which exploded  :o

Looks like you getting tooled up my friend!  They look like hardcore resistors!  Congratulations on your salvaging....always the best way....the A Team way  ;D  Keep us all informed on your progress......

PS - I'll try your suggestion about a 12V lamp tomorrow....perhaps that will solve my burning wires problem.

PPS...The last transistor, a BU 2527 AF (i think Peter recommended a similar one on the previous page - its bigger than the other trannys i found in the monitor.  is it ''the line output'' transistor?) has officially died in a puff of smoke filling the whole of the room with that familiar smell.....Its back to the radio market for me tomorrow morning.  They dont have any imports in the market I go to - only russian transistors.  What are the most important parametres, in your opinion?  I'll try using a printout of the datasheet again - after all, it worked last time!  the guy found me a winner!  I'll also buy a couple of other batteries which arent so juicy.  And i'll finally get my hands on the ceramic cap. 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 13, 2009, 11:37:14 PM
Hi flathunter, the 1cm arc you got on about 6V sounds about right, it was working ok but the transistor must´ve fried and now its probably gone short? Some transistors seem sensitive even though the specs are similar.

The BU2527, Yes it was probably the LOPT and would probably have done a good job. When you wired it up did you look online for pinouts in a datasheet? Maybe not because I cant find a free datasheet online for it. Maybe it had reverse bias protection diode and you over currented that and the heat caused the case to burst? Ive done that with FETs. Best to always use current limiting on your supply, stick a 10 to 50ohm 5W resistor in the -v rail and then if you wire up wrong the tranny will just get very warm but shouldnt blow.

If you can stand the wait then these 13005 are quite a good deal, nice fast trannys with reasonable voltage, no internal diode, quite a good price for the specs, the seller also has lots of other good cheap stuff worth a look:

http://cgi.ebay.com/13005-MJE13005-TO-220-Transistor-NPN-4A-700V-10-pcs_W0QQitemZ320268088348QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a9177341c&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

If you have a scrap switch mode computer PSU kicking around you can also get good trannys out of them, trouble is its often hard to find datasheets, but much more A-Team like lol.

When you buy your cap, try and get a HV cap if you can like 1kV or more. Theyre often blue or orange, shiny and oblong. It´ll suck up all the noise alot better. TV´s always have a few good ones in.

Ive just got some enameled copper wire in heavy gauge to make some coils with, just need to find some nice rigid tube to cut slits in and form it on. This is my job in hand to wind a 8 turn 12AWG coil and a 40 turn 18AWG coil, make them as true and even spaced as possible and then set them together perfectly coaxial.

My HV diodes and caps should arrive very soon i hope.

I´ve decided to go with filament lamps for load testing, got quite a collection up, 1V 3V 6V 12V and of course the good ol 240V.

Good luck at the markets!

edit:
I think in this case the most important tran spec is max reverse voltage so it can handle primary flyback, try and get one without protection diode in it. Tell the market sellers you want to pulse the primary of a TV flyback coil with it, they should sort you out with something suitable.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 14, 2009, 08:12:29 PM
I just collected my other HV components from the postoffice, the doorknobs a real fast cap with almost zero inductance, well pleased I've got one.

in the photo:

20 * ceramic caps 15kV 2200pF
100g * 12AWG
100g * 18AWG
4 * 30kV 100mA (100ns recovery) diodes
1 * HF doorknob cap: 20kV 4000pF
2 * HV resistors, 500k, 1M.

Slowly I will be building up a Smith like device. if it was low voltage stuff i'd get out the croc leads and start hacking, but because its HV I will take it slow and easy and have it all secure on a board.

edit:
I may run single shot mode first, discharge all caps and then feed the spark cap via resistor, as soon as spark fires I will power off and then I can measure op collected in the doorknob, this will be an easy way to test COP, provided I can measure the caps using my DMM and a HV divider.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: flathunter on August 14, 2009, 10:54:52 PM
Cheers for the list and photo!  The details have been taken....

Its decided.  I'm gonna have to go the whole 9 yards in this project, and get an order in on ebay.  It'll take a while for the components to arrive - but i'm sure it'll be worth it.  In the mean time i'll keep playing with transistors and flyback until i get the kind of output i saw on your video.  Failing that, i do actually have a HV 30KV supply i could use anyway..... 

The Don Smith/Kapandze riddle needs solving - use the force Yucca.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 14, 2009, 11:31:27 PM
Cheers for the list and photo!  The details have been taken....

Its decided.  I'm gonna have to go the whole 9 yards in this project, and get an order in on ebay.  It'll take a while for the components to arrive - but i'm sure it'll be worth it.  In the mean time i'll keep playing with transistors and flyback until i get the kind of output i saw on your video.  Failing that, i do actually have a HV 30KV supply i could use anyway..... 

The Don Smith/Kapandze riddle needs solving - use the force Yucca.

Hi Flathunter,

These components don't come cheap but you won't regret it, even if I can't get magic happening with Smiths configs the components are good for other experiments where I wan't to work with nice high voltages at nice high frequencies. Building a HV HF bridge with diodes into a doorknob will give a module that can be used to get a handle on loads of different higher energy effects.

I used this ebay seller, packing was good, delivery was 3 weeks to europe:
http://stores.shop.ebay.com/yishstore__W0QQ_armrsZ1

if you want to order multiple items maybe write the seller and ask if he can combine shipping before you order.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 15, 2009, 09:50:09 PM
Hi all,

I did an experimental secondary coil today, 24 turns of 18AWG, diameter 60mm, length 100mm. I will wind another 40turn coil that is longer and only 50mm diam when I get a form.

photos:

[1] Winding using bell wire as a spacer
[2] Spacer removed and lolipop stick ribs glued on
[3] Finished coil
[4] Fairly uniform

I used a plastic talcum powder container slit along its length and then taped the slit inside, then I taped on 4 pieces of cardboard with space between each. After winding I secured the end with tape, removed the bell wire spacer and glued the ribs on, the glue did not stick to the container because the cardboard lifted the wire above. After drying I removed the tape from the slit and squeezed the form to remove it.

Now I'll make a 6 turn primary with 12AWG, I won't be gluing primary onto the ribs, I'll make a slipover coil so I can swap different primaries out.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 16, 2009, 03:01:45 AM
This seems very related to these device types and I recommend it as a good read to anyone working on this type of stuff:

http://www.amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html

Quote
In theory a tiny loop antenna sitting on your lab bench can intercept just as much energy as a longwire 1/2-wave antenna which is 10KM long. Bizarre, eh?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 17, 2009, 04:08:16 AM
I made a small adjustable spark gap using tungsten rods, cut and flattened off with a dremel. here's a video of 2,200pF firing across a 1.5mm gap into a 12V auto bulb:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFVz_Z_xKgM

of course the bulb lights much more efficiently using straight DC, this was just for fun.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: flathunter on August 19, 2009, 02:16:54 PM
Hi Yucca!

Great to see you're beautiful work with the coils!  I was winding my own coils round a sewage pipe about a month ago, and they sure look much uglier, and far far less precise (still managed to get the wireless transfer working though  ;D) - you've done very very well with that air coil.  I'll have to go to the site you linked to for coil winding as i remember it had some good advice.  Cheers for the Bill Beaty link, and the link to the 13005 transistors.  I love the way Bill writes - very lucid and down to earth...i'm half way through it, and will finish reading the rest soon.

I was back down the radio market, and the same guy sold me a couple more chunky metal transistors - i think they are the same as the one which was a winner.  He showed me the parametres today, and he seemed to think it was 10 MHz - even faster than the 13005! he must have made a mistake last time, as he told me 1 MHz.  They have ''2T841A 8911'' written on them.  He has plenty more if i need some  ;)  Also managed to get a 1 microfarad ceramic cap, and 2 more lead acid batteries - 6V 2.8 AH, and 12V...er....and i reckon 5 AH, but not certain.  These Russian radio markets are a little unreliable for the details!  I'll get playing ASAP, but the wife and daughter are back and its a little cramped for playing with high voltage in my one room flat!  Perhaps i'll have some time tomorrow when they go for a walk down the park.

Keep going mate, and be lucky! 

PS.  Heres a vid of the 1cm spark - terrible quality, and not really worth watching....but just to prove I am with you on this....just quite a way behind!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBChlXRVyM8

and one of my wireless power.  The lamps are mostly CFL's and neons, but there are 2 12V diode lamps there also - just to prove its not just ionised gases, but current down a wire also  ;)

http://www.youtube.com/user/MrFlathunter#play/all/uploads-all/1/jR1Ms1SOHEw
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 19, 2009, 05:21:26 PM
Hi flathunter,

nice vids, your 6V spark looks about right, that's what I get on 6V. really nice tesla coil you've got there, nice top load toroid! wireless transmission working well!

I know what you mean about kids, I have a 2 year old boy and 4 year old girl. I only fire up HV after they go to bed.

Thanks for the compliment on the coil, it was fairly easy to construct, if you keep it as uniform as possible then it should have higher Q, but then in this circuit the secondary doesnt seem tuned so maybe its not needed? but smiths coil looked very uniform so I did it like that. I'd like a 40 turn one like smiths as well though.

Your smith circuit seemed to be working well and transfering considerable energy through it, you've got all the parts in place, if you get hold of some rigid sticks, bamboo chopsticks would be good, then you can get your coil more uniform and then remove the plastic pipe because it will have considerable dialectric properties at higher freqs. The plastic pipe will make a great form for you to wind on but you may need to cut it.

Yes, if wat Bill Beaty is speculating is true then maybe with devices like this we can harvest a large volume of EM space by contructing a large virtual aether antenna probably like the TPU, but alot easier to wind because non toroid. If we can harvest EM out of a sphere 5km radius then that's a big volume of space and maybe considerable power can be had.

We just have to work out what to tune the primary to? Maybe a higher harmonic of Schumman resonance?

I've still got to make a good dedicated ground connection, I'll be thinking about doing that next, I wan't a nice wire coming into my lab that is a really good isolated ground, very handy for loads of experiments.

All the best, Yucca.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 19, 2009, 09:57:58 PM
Quote
Yes, if wat Bill Beaty is speculating is true then maybe with devices like this we can harvest a large volume of EM space by contructing a large virtual aether antenna probably like the TPU, but alot easier to wind because non toroid. If we can harvest EM out of a sphere 5km radius then that's a big volume of space and maybe considerable power can be had.

I have corresponded with Beaty about this issue and he reminded me to be aware of hoaxes after i had sent him a link to Kapanadze`s video. If i interpret his answer right, then he doesn t think it is possible to get a considerable energy gain
In theory however it all sounds hopeful and needs to be experimented with.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 19, 2009, 10:55:33 PM
I have corresponded with Beaty about this issue and he reminded me to be aware of hoaxes after i had sent him a link to Kapanadze`s video. If i interpret his answer right, then he doesn t think it is possible to get a considerable energy gain
In theory however it all sounds hopeful and needs to be experimented with.

xeno, He wrote the article 10 years ago, its a terrific piece, I enjoyed reading it. Sad to hear that he is not very optimistic about the theory. As you say we should all keep experimenting with the idea though. It would be great even if we could harvest a few watts from a distant radio transmitter.

@all,
I have been wondering how to get a handle on input output power ratios without putting any equipment at risk and I thought of this simple idea:

say we use a 2200pF cap and a 1mm gap on the input coil.

Then we also put a 2200pF cap and a 1mm gap over the output bridge.

Now we simply listen to the gapfire frequencies using microphone and oscope (or PC) or even your ear. If the output gapfire is at a faster frequency then its OU, any thoughts on this, is there something I´m overlooking maybe or could it be a good simple way to check power ratio.

edit:
after thinking more on this I realise gapfire freq on the output cannot exceed input because it is operating in pulse mode and the output cannot be charged without input pulse. but still we could use it because if the op freq gets even close to the input it will show very efficient behaviour so it may be useful for tuning? Maybe in OU mode the gapfire freqs will be the same but the output sparks may be a little louder?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: flathunter on August 20, 2009, 02:18:11 PM
I seem to be having major problems sending messages to you and getting on OU.com.Maybe the powers that be know how close we are!Why did you think I have Don Smith circuitry in my wireless power video?There's just a typical tesla coil surrounded by several receiver coils with wires of various turns and thickness. These receiver coils are connected to a heavy piece of iron on the floor, and have diode lamps on the wire in between the receiver and the iron.The CFLs just touch the heavy piece of iron. The 70 or so tiny neons (sitting in a hexagonal canvas) are just close to the receiver coil, unconnected, but ionised via the powerful EM field.  There are no HV diodes (yet!) or resistors....I havent managed to get my hands on any, but i will, and then ill try to do a replica of your great diagram.Keep going mate, and if you want to send me any messages you can use the youtube channel.... or im on energetic forum as ''seth'' also. OU.com seems really unreliable at the mo. And i've already sent this message 10 times, but it never seems to appear on your youtube channel - WTF?

Perhaps I'm getting paranoid  ;D

My experiments are going at a slower rate now - have to keep playing with the little girl, you know how it goes!  But we will succeed!  Finished the Bill Beaty essay - great essay....not sure i understand the ins and outs, but its like the old Chinese proverb

''Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand''

Be lucky!

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 20, 2009, 03:51:40 PM
Flathunter,

I´m a bit of an airhead sometimes, I thought I´d watched you (on youtube a few weeks back) do the smith setup using auto ignition coil, caps, spark gap, and L1L2 wrapped with copper wire on a plastic pipe. But now I think that was xenolabs work.

I´ve noticed problems getting on some servers lately, maybe some trunk connections are experiencing problems? OU.com was just a blank page for over 24hrs for me. Maybe we are getting too close lol.

I was looking at noise last night with my scope on the most sensitive 2mV per division setting. Just putting wire a few cm long on my scope probe for antenna I saw really strong AM sine waves (20mV p2p) in the low MHz region, the transmitters must be multi kW. I´ll bet if you could reach out you could grab quite a few watts. Now if we can just work out a way to suck HAARP dry ;D

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 20, 2009, 06:06:45 PM
Been looking at Teslas hairpin circuit lately. The hookup of this might also be used into the primary of devices like were looking at, so wired like this:

|------ DC HV -----|
|                          |
|                          |
|-----> gap <-------
|                          |
= C1                     = C2
|                          |
|-------~~~-------|
             L1

Maybe something to explore also?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 20, 2009, 06:28:22 PM
@flathunter,

I tried to sign up to energetic forum some time ago but didn't get in? And now I'm not too sure I want to, from what I see from the Rosemary Ainslee thread the place seems a little weird, masquerading as freedom but really it looks very controlled? anyone raising logical points that questioned the claims of RA were met with a cult like fascist response, the response was sugar coated, only the sugar was carcinogenic aspartame, maybe its just that thread? I don't like cults, I prefer to stand on my own two feet and cheerfuly make logical observations. Anyway, now I've got dad duties to attend to just like you, I'm sure if we could harness the energies from young kids it would be way OU, they just keep going and going on a handful of peanuts and chocolate  :D
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: flathunter on August 20, 2009, 07:19:33 PM
Suck HAARP dry  ;D  With pleasure!!!  I've got this beast about an hour by train from my flat - the station is 2 mins on foot away.  I'll be checking it out as soon as I can!  I'll be taking the video camera also - watch this space!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Td--HItuoI

I'd love to get some juice out of this baby!  Makes me think maybe Tom Beardon was right with all his ''Tesla Howitzer'' talk....  ;D

But I'm with you 100% about energeticforum - some very weird types on there...nonetheless, there are some weird ones round here also - i suppose the powers that be install them on all these kind of sites to distract us from our real work!  I also LOVE a healthy bit of skepticism and can say for certainty that I have never seen OU.  The reason I prefer OU.com is that there are plenty of skeptics here as well as plenty of REAL experimenters - not just talking, but doing also...at the beginning I was chatting here about JL Naudins work (i have a few lifters and a Poynting Flow Thruster - he got me into all this.  Again because he's a REAL experimenter) and i was pleased to hear Tinsel Koalas skepticism - i still disagree with him about electrostatic induction being the mechanism for the PFT - Nonetheless, it was pleasant to hear someone with far more scientific background than me (he seems to know a lot more - by the way...so do you!) explain why I might be wrong.

So - boll*cks to the fascists who dont like a bit of debate.  Even if OU is impossible, I'm gonna have a lot of fun trying, and maybe end up with something which at the least is free in terms of my wallet.  Earth batteries, wind, solar, cosmic rays - they're all free anyway.  Free energy has been around for thousands of years.  The universe keeps turning, and i doubt it runs on diesel....

Enjoy your Dad duties!  If i'm ever in Spain (possibly next year) i'll hook up for a pint  ;)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 20, 2009, 10:35:09 PM
Suck HAARP dry  ;D  With pleasure!!!  I've got this beast about an hour by train from my flat - the station is 2 mins on foot away.  I'll be checking it out as soon as I can!  I'll be taking the video camera also - watch this space!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Td--HItuoI

I'd love to get some juice out of this baby!  Makes me think maybe Tom Beardon was right with all his ''Tesla Howitzer'' talk....  ;D

But I'm with you 100% about energeticforum - some very weird types on there...nonetheless, there are some weird ones round here also - i suppose the powers that be install them on all these kind of sites to distract us from our real work!  I also LOVE a healthy bit of skepticism and can say for certainty that I have never seen OU.  The reason I prefer OU.com is that there are plenty of skeptics here as well as plenty of REAL experimenters - not just talking, but doing also...at the beginning I was chatting here about JL Naudins work (i have a few lifters and a Poynting Flow Thruster - he got me into all this.  Again because he's a REAL experimenter) and i was pleased to hear Tinsel Koalas skepticism - i still disagree with him about electrostatic induction being the mechanism for the PFT - Nonetheless, it was pleasant to hear someone with far more scientific background than me (he seems to know a lot more - by the way...so do you!) explain why I might be wrong.

So - boll*cks to the fascists who dont like a bit of debate.  Even if OU is impossible, I'm gonna have a lot of fun trying, and maybe end up with something which at the least is free in terms of my wallet.  Earth batteries, wind, solar, cosmic rays - they're all free anyway.  Free energy has been around for thousands of years.  The universe keeps turning, and i doubt it runs on diesel....

Enjoy your Dad duties!  If i'm ever in Spain (possibly next year) i'll hook up for a pint  ;)

Your philosophy sounds close to mine, if this smith device doesn't give us OU then no problem, at least we had fun and learnt some new things and the parts can be used for other cool things, I try not to get too personally attached about any of my ideas or other ideas I'm working with and if anyone questions them then so be it no harm done.

Look forward to any haarp footage you can get. Beardens scalar weapons writings were real nice to read, fantastic stuff!

With regard to lifters, many say it is just ion wind and will not run in a vacuum, there is no such thing as a vacuum, just different spatial densities.

As you say lots of FE already, I have made a large spiral out of black PVC irrigation pipe for a pool heater, I've clocked it running at 12kW, serious free heating:

http://rimstar.org/renewnrg/splyucca.htm

I'm just itching to make some solid state device that will run 24/7 on the massive amounts of energy in the ion region of our atmosphere. If you do pass through south spain then you're welcome to check in to share a few frosty ones.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 20, 2009, 11:31:02 PM
Hi
I have also done a lot with the Bifeld Brown effect, and the effect has been replicated in a strong vacuum.
Brown originally found the effect by using a large stack of plates sealed in a box, the box would move without any external ion wind so i think this also proves the point.

Any way looks like i will be joining you guys very shortly, my current research of the kick has collided with some of Don Smiths work.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 20, 2009, 11:45:23 PM
@peterea,
Cool to see you thinking of working with this, I think this device may have alot to do with the TPU, making an active antenna, give lots and receive a little more, making a massive virtual antenna from a modestly sized device. Maybe the "kick" refers to the excess received back after a large excitation?

@flathunter
I don't know squat about poynting flow thrusters at the moment, you've given me something to read about tonight ;)

eidt:
i´ve made a lifter before, but never a PFT, I will try quickly with an old CD case and some adhesive alu tape tomorrow, crank it up to just below arcover. lifters tend to have air dialectric, PFT has integrated dialectric so maybe more efficient in space? I should also try and build the rest of my first Smith like device lol.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: flathunter on August 21, 2009, 02:27:00 PM
Great to hear others are taking an interest in the PFT! (poynting flow thruster). You could easily power it with your flyback power supply Yucca. It seems to work on very few amps, but lots of volts.  And its far easier than building a lifter in my opinion.  I'm discussing the PFT at the moment on this website with another guy who has been in contact with Dr Turtur.  Dr Turtur is a German scientist who claims to have proven beyond all doubt that vacuum energy can be converted into mechanical energy, and he does his best to prove that it certainly isnt ion wind - decide for yourself here

http://philica.com/display_article.php?article_id=155.

we're discussing it here

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7723.msg197991#new

I've had some terrible progress with replicating your power supply - i blew another transistor today.  I think i'll have to wait till i get an order in for the 13005 trannies.  I'm still just trying without the circuit, just hooking the tranny between the battery and flyback, cos thats how i got the 1cm spark - and i havent been able to get to where I was on my first ever attempt - electronics can be sooooo irritating!

So, after some frustrating attempts and seeing that Peter, yourself, and Vincent on the other thread were all interested in the PFT, i decided to make a couple of vids with my PFT in action.  You can see them here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6bSjSnMMo0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smSTEkezHuQ

I'll try and keep all other references to the PFT on the other thread about Dr Turtur as I dont think its very relevant to Don Smith.  I'll save this thread for any more power supply reps, and wireless power fun, as I think they are far more relevant to Don Smith.  After all, when i look at some of Dons machines, they just look like tesla coils surrounded by receiver coils, with HV bridges converting the AC back to DC - though i'm sure they must be more complex than that, otherwise OU would be too easy!

PS.  I think you're right about testing the PFT in vacuum, and its exactly what XaeroVincent suggested on the other thread.

PPS. - great pool heater.  I'm gonna show my old man - hes a plumber and often installs central heating systems.

 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 21, 2009, 04:40:20 PM
Quote
After all, when i look at some of Dons machines, they just look like tesla coils surrounded by receiver coils, with HV bridges converting the AC back to DC - though i'm sure they must be more complex than that, otherwise OU would be too easy!

You are absolutely right there.
Don Smith never reveals the whole picture. His table device is incomplete (even if it`s just missing "only" the battery and the output transformer) and his other schematics never contain all of the components and contradict his descriptions partially.
I am still asking myself how he manages to achieve a resonant circuit with DC caps without destroying them (apart from the fact that the caps in his table device are only rated for 4000 VDC and he states that the NST delivers 9kV AC ?!?!?)
Maybe the road to replicating his devices is to not stick to his schematics but creating your own circuit that makes at least sense to yourself hehe.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Paul-R on August 21, 2009, 04:47:23 PM
It is important to remember that he has several technologies which
work in different ways.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 21, 2009, 05:01:57 PM
It is important to remember that he has several technologies which
work in different ways.

So?
Sure they work in different ways, but the concrete exact principle remains veiled and
the selection of components at least appears to be odd. And that`s what would be nice to be discussed here, so we all have some food for thought on component choice.

I have read ALL available Smith papers and know all the theory that`s why i say
the concrete exact principle as to where and HOW exactly the energy gain is concretely established.
Just stating that the high amperage causing electron flow come through the earth ground does not explain under what exact conditions they would start doing that except for simply saying it would occur at HF and resonance. There is something more to it than what is presented by Smith (for understandable reasons).
And equations mean nothing as long as they remain theory.

Like Flathunter said, if any transformer that simply runs at resonance would always yield insane KW of power, then that whole thing would be easy to tackle.
However there is many peeps out there who think they have sussed it out. If they would be able to show me a working replication, i would start to take them serious.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on August 21, 2009, 05:59:04 PM
Pfft dead on there,

You can't achieve overunity with your current knowledge.

I can tell you that the universe and the earth which is connected to it is already overunity and that there is an unbalance.

People here will never achieve overunity...first off i have seen god and believe in it and that religion and science is one...yet well religion which is the mimick of it...was invented by the devil yet worship the same god haha..and they fight.

The cause that created the universe which is zero point gives more out than in by nature and in the bible well with my correct one...god creates stuff out of nothing.

You can predict the future but it is bigger than words...most people here think they are a smelly human but really pfft..how unenlightened..i hope you guys understand that scientists do NOT FULLY UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING...i can see the big picture it is overunity...and zero point which is the backbone of the universe...is of course the fastest energy in the universe which is instant or 0 seconds because it always speeds up.

You cannot create nor destory...alpha and omega...without beginning and without end...so what does that mean?

It means the universe basicly has existed forever already...at the point of when this came around when the universe was created...as far as i understand from god's wisdom...pfft..and since energy is time.

Has already existed forever...without beginning remember..thats how old the universe is and is overunity...planet earth is an asylum for lunatics.

This here proves overunity.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7957.0

Beyond human illusion..if you look at that file...and since EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE AND ON EARTH AND IS IN HARMONY EXPLAINS THE UNBALANCE FORCES OF THE UNIVERSE TO KEEP IT IN A PERPETUAL MOTION STATE...this picture when i look at is..is more in detail of why the universe gives more out than IN.

I do not trust human knowledge but then when i look at this and when this guy finds out..how things are created out of nothing just as what i read in the bible...will answer everything in physics yea..it all comes down to the neutral center..

The guy who wrote this has noticed an unbalanced force in the universe...this is the key to understanding the universe of overunity..it is all uttered through out the energy world..and when he says imperfect my defination is..is that is has a reason..and that energy it's self is actually perfect.


One step closer to understanding why the electron does not dissipate i suppose.

By the way...technology was given by god by enlightening people telepathically.

The reason why people get overunity regarding radiant energy and the like well look at that picture..this spiral system is hooked up the zero point naturally by god and why it gives more out than in...so if the universe would stop...and if it existed forever the only reason that it keeps on going is because the universe is overunity..and i don't believe in stupid smelly evolution anyways...science is proving it is aload of "%^* but then it comes down to religion...yea the earth is 6000 years old but i believe in jahtruth.co.uk science and religion in one harmony.

It seems science does not want to discover new things thank god for this guy...with technology we have today it will prove that this under unity bullshit is wrong..you got to have a sharp eye looking at this...that right there is overunity in action.

I find don smiths ambient energy to be kinda incorrect...it has to tap zero point for this overunity to be achieved.

I mean it is right in front of everyones faces here...ignorant scientists don't look at it...they rather be stuck in the 1700's...then rather question it...wha? nahhh the universe should of be kaput by now?

If it was not perpetual first handly this without beginning and without end well it is a wonder only god him self knows.

Everything is energy even your thoughts..nothing is random :)..happens for a reason..cause and effect is great detail...so yea if god knows where the atom goes in great perspective obviously he can predict the future perfectly.

The way i see this without beginning and without end is like this past - (without beginning - now forever - without end) - future... it is rather simplistic since i have studyed carefully god's wisdom but it will drive you mad :D because people need to REALLY TAKE A CLOSE LOOK and doubt man's knowledge.. i'd rather avoid it like the plague although it sees some parts of the bigger picture i like to keep a god's eye perspective of it.

According to Mellen the past present and future changes at the same time...but as far as i see it...you cannot change what has already been done..because of now really...this now is basicly without beginning and without end...and always will be..now do you see why this knowledge is too big for words :).

What this guy may discover is is that the universe is overunity and then be called a quack...well at least this guy may have discovered god this way :)..like as if somebody built it..
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 21, 2009, 07:15:28 PM
@lltfdaniel1:
Nice pdf ! Thanks for sharing.
The hard part is to translate that knowledge into circuit design
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on August 21, 2009, 07:41:10 PM
I think the left over energy could be centrifugal forces..from what i have studied.

You know the method of cancelling out stuff, and then you get scalar/zpe effect..well that is what this is about then you can go from there regarding circuit design..

I mean if you look at magnet motors and gravity devices...these forces are not balanced...it works around a neutral center.

This left over force is zero point..the cause that created everything.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on August 21, 2009, 08:03:45 PM
It is a tad easier to see it in magnets thanks to howard Johnson who had a working pmm.

http://www.cheniere.org/misc/johnson.htm

The magnet it's self had uneven forces.

Regarding the 4 spins.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: flathunter on August 22, 2009, 12:14:32 AM
Its all very nice Daniel....

But can you relate any of it to Don Smith, or have you posted on the wrong thread   ????  Can you relate any of these philosophical musing to a build?  Dont get me wrong - i love philosophy, and theoretical physics, but i want an OU machine, and thats why i'm here - to build one.  Leaving another OU.com thread link isnt helping me PROVE overunity, cos it isnt helping me make a machine which demonstrates overunity.  I need simple PRACTICAL instructions like diagrams, parts list, and a whole lot of help from my OU buddies, and thats just to get a joule thief to light 20 LEDs, or a 1cm spark from the flyback (thanks Pirate, Yucca et al.). 

Please dont be offended.  I know theory is important.  My favourite philosopher says "deeds deeds deeds...don't worry about thoughts....they will come sure enough, whether you will them or not!''
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 22, 2009, 02:13:30 AM
Nice vids flathunter, 1664 is a nice brew ;) I didn´t get round to trying a PFT today, but I will do in the near future.

I picked up some more electrical terminal blocks from the hardware store so now I´ll wind my primary and set up my first Smith like circuit on a thin MDF board. Tuning for now will involve different numbers of parallel 2000pF caps and I will also make my primary be 8 turns and file small tap points onto each turn so I can try soldering the feed on different taps. This should give me quite a few frequency points to experiment with. I´ll be setting up a cap and small gap on the output and counting the fires in a given time. This will give me some relative idea about how well its tuned I hope.

Again I´m thinking the grounding resistor on the secondary coil ends is something that needs careful consideration, I think this might be a vital tuning point, we want to force nodes but we dont want those nodes to be zeros, hence the resistor instead of straight tied.

I think the key is to allow a fairly free swinging standing half wave, this will allow for it to oscillate at fundamental but also at any other frequency at the same time.

Imagine a ruler in free space oscillating at its half wave resonance, well if the ends are on elastic bands instead of anchored then we could also wobble it at much lower frequencies up and down at the same time that it vibrates at its half wave. Difficult to explain, but anyway, if we can get the secondary to generate a large EM field at its fundamental then it may reach out and couple with a large volume of space (like an active antenna).

Through this coupling it may then be able to extract energy from other much lower frequency sources available in that large volume of space like for example schumann resonance which is very feeble at 1picotesla but if you can interact with a sphere of space 10kM radius it maybe a significant power source?

I would really like to get hold of a good variable vacuum capacitor for easy fine tuning, preferably up to 1000pF 5kV, it looks like Russia is the place to buy these at good prices on ebay, next paycheck I may look at getting one.

xeno, I´ve been thinking about that polarised cap... Maybe it´s a diagram error, like he picked the wrong component from his component pallete. It spooks me too. ??? I think the voltage rating shouldn´t matter provided he set the gap to breakdown before max cap voltage is reached.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 22, 2009, 02:20:46 AM
variable vacuum caps look so cool!
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 22, 2009, 11:24:57 AM
Hi Guys

Just got to wait for my order of diodes and caps to arrive now, 10-15 Days :(

Mean time i have just bought a grid dip meter, been meaning to get one for ages, should come in very handy on this build.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 22, 2009, 11:36:13 AM
Oh one other thing, anyone using Tv or Monitor line output transformers (LOPTX) maybe able to find the pinout of their transformer if you locate the FAT number printed on it, by cross referencing here

http://www.donberg.ie/catalogue/line_output_transformers/konig_line_output_transformers/page_1.html?perpage=1000

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 22, 2009, 01:12:58 PM
xeno, I´ve been thinking about that polarised cap... Maybe it´s a diagram error, like he picked the wrong component from his component pallete. It spooks me too. ??? I think the voltage rating shouldn´t matter provided he set the gap to breakdown before max cap voltage is reached.

You have an excellent point with the gap breakdown there. That is the only explanation at least why he might not fry his caps by the sheer voltage level of the NST.
In the 4000 VDC caps device he talks about using lightning protectors as gaps. Not sure what breakdown they usually come with.
On the secondary side of the table device he uses a 10 kV cap across the center tap and the top side of the secondary, which also is rated way too low with a 1:10 winding ratio which will produce voltages between 20kV and 60kV.
The high voltage cables that connect the secondary to the caps are rated at 80kV breakdown, so he runs below 80kV obviously.
If the lightning protector gap is limiting the primary voltage on the cap to 2kV then the voltage across the secondary 10kV rated cap could be just 10kV.
But then the question arises why he used a 9kV output NST instead of a 2kV output one ?!

About the actual oscillation of the circuit, one has to assume that the AC component obviously does not harm the caps for some miraculous reason that we can´t explain yet.
When i first stumbled across that seeming contradiction i assumed that DC caps maybe won`t oscillate at all (together with an inductor) due to their strict polarisation.
However the literature states that they would and likely will get destroyed.
To create any significant RF in the circuit, it has to oscillate (and thus change polarity) somehow  ???

@Peterae: Nice dipmeter! I am sure it will come handy with this type of devices ;)

Keep it up!

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 22, 2009, 03:14:23 PM
In the patent pending Diagram page 34 of the pdf, he specifies a spark gap of 0.0025 Inches, this converted to mm is 0.0635mm which given in air the breakdown voltage is 3000v/mm gives us a gap breakdown voltage of 190.5V

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 22, 2009, 03:52:18 PM
Spark arresters can be found in master telephone sockets, here in the uk they are rated between 200 and 260v i think.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 22, 2009, 04:19:15 PM
@peterae, I always wondered what those things in UK sockets telephone were, I thought they were snubber caps, now I know. The dip meter should definitely be handy for working on this stuff. I have been using online calcs to work out coil inductance and then looking at their performance using a sniffer probe on my scope to check resonance freqs and get a general feel for Q. The calcs have proved quite accurate at predicting the coils self resonance.

@all,
OK guys, I've just finished making my primary slipover coil, it's not as neat as the secondary because the 12AWG wire is very stiff to work with and I was using the seconday as a form so was winding and spacing by hand without a rigid form and spacers, see pics.

I first wound the 12AWG tightly round a glass jar 1cm less diameter than the secondary, then I pried open the spring gently so that it hugged the secondary ribs and then just spaced it up by eye.

I will try and build up a device later today if I can find some time.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Paul-R on August 22, 2009, 04:25:49 PM

People here will never achieve overunity...first off i have seen god
Then ask Him how its done, for God's sake.

...and get yourself one of those Bedini SG kits and prove yourself wrong.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 22, 2009, 07:39:11 PM
Just finished a first prototype. I will fire it up after midnight.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 22, 2009, 08:29:16 PM
Spark arresters can be found in master telephone sockets, here in the uk they are rated between 200 and 260v i think.

Peterae,
thanks for the info.
Hmmm, 260 volt . That creates more questions concerning the device.
If the gap fires at 260 Volt then there is only such a low voltage in the circuit, which would surprise me.

I might have found an explanation for Smith`s usage of DC caps at least in the table device while making a schematic for it and the DC caps
get only charged with sinusoidal DC onto the positive plate.
I am not sure what happens when the gap fires, but maybe the cap alternates only between the maximal positive charge and the ground potential, which means never a truly negative potential which could destroy it.
What do you think?

EDIT: In the graph i used 12 Volts max for easier simulation
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 22, 2009, 09:32:30 PM
I might have found an explanation for Smith`s usage of DC caps at least in the table device while making a schematic for it and the DC caps
get only charged with sinusoidal DC onto the positive plate.
I am not sure what happens when the gap fires, but maybe the cap alternates only between the maximal positive charge and the ground potential, which means never a truly negative potential which could destroy it.
What do you think?

Hi xeno,

Is your simulation based on any of smiths schematics or did you put the diodes in to force this behaviour, either way interesting stuff.

I've thought of that too, thinking that the oscilation will be a haversine function i.e a sin wave whose bottom rests on 0V. But it would not be the case in normal gap and LC becasue the inductor when energised is like elastic, when you let it go it will rebound and want to go back under 0V, a polarised cap wouldn't stop that and the oscillation would be damped sin about 0V centre just like a normal cap.

If the electrolytic cap cans are coated then they do not degrade in capacity with reverse charge, but he didn't specify this.

Another interesting thing about electrolytics is that when they are manufactured they are not polarised, only after using them in one polarity for some time do they start to show asymetry in the plate chemistry. So maybe if you run them at avg. zero, i.e. proper AC then they might not become polarised?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 22, 2009, 09:42:16 PM
I've thought of that too, thinking that the oscilation will be a haversine function i.e a sin wave whose bottom rests on 0V. But it would not be the case becasue the inductor when energised is like elastic, when you let it go it will rebound and want to go back under 0V, a polarised cap wouldn't stop that and the oscillation would be damped sin about 0V centre just like a normal cap.

If the electrolytic cap cans are coated then they do not degrade in capacity with reverse charge, but he didn't specify this.

Another interesting thing about electrolytics is that when they are manufactured they are not polarised, only after using them in one polarity for some time do they start to show asymetry in the plate chemistry.

Thanks for giving it a thought. It is really hard that self-oscillating LC circuits cant be simulated so easily in Spice.
Only with a lot of start condition tweaking and then the earth ground potential is also not considered as a 2nd potential.

You are probably right the inductor alteration would drop the potential below zero and create a negative voltage.
I have searched online for high voltage lightning arresters but they are huge.
The one that Don Smith used is tiny and they most commonly really have a gap voltage of 200-400 V (like Peterae already said).
Does that indicate that the primary circuit does not reach a higher voltage than that?
Why the huge high voltage caps and 80kv breakdown HV cables then on the secondary when with a 1:10 winding ratio that would yield maximally 2000-4000 Volt then?
I think the scenario as i see it right now must be eroneous, otherwise the whole device couldn´t work as it is supposed to.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 22, 2009, 09:47:07 PM
Why the huge high voltage caps and 80kv breakdown HV cables then on the secondary when with a 1:10 winding ratio that would yield maximally 4000 Volt then?

The only reason I can think is that when the devices are showing OU behaviour then normal transformer action is exceeded greatly, the secondary swings at much higher amplitude due to external source excitation so the real voltage ratio is much higher than normal transformer theory dictates.

Of course this is speculation, do the devices work? we don't know, and what is frustrating is that we may never know. ???
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: flathunter on August 22, 2009, 10:10:09 PM
Wow!

This thread is moving fast tonight!

@Yucca - Beautiful set-up you got there.  Great photos.  Its the only way I can work....circuit diagrams often confuse me, but a photo is much clearer, especially if i have both a photo and a circuit diagram.  And you've given me both - cheers! 

@All - The level of scientific technical info is starting to go way above my head.  But I still understand the main ideas (kind of) and why you are all confused with Dons set-up.  The voltages just dont seem to add up from what i can see.  Anyway, lets not let it disappoint us.  Someone on overunity.com had a great quote on their avatar which i really liked

''the crowd that said something is impossible, never tried''

At the least we'll try eh?  Keep on going with all your tests - I'm feeling optimistic  ;D 

Its gonna take me a few weeks to get some HV diodes, caps and resistors (and 13005 trannies) - so for the meantime, i'm gonna try messing with my tesla coil and receivers, and try and get as many CFLs alight as physically possible - yeah, i know it wont prove OU, but its gonna be damn fun!  Theres a shop 2 mins away with cheap CFLs......and I wanna build a few air coils and try them out as receivers - see if they work better than my PVC receiver coils.  I just love the look of Yuccas coil!  I've got no little baby in the flat till friday.....plenty of time for Tesla silliness!  I figure if i try just about everything i can think of, i'm bound to find some exotic behaviour eventually...even if i dont understand it!   ;)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 22, 2009, 10:23:36 PM
@Yucca

Nice build ;)

Good luck for tonights tests.

@xenomorphlabs

It will be quiet interesting to get some hands on with his setup, hopefully we should be able to answer some of these questions.

Does anyone know what approx resonant frequency we are aiming for.

I tried to do some guesstimates by measuring the dimensions of the coil and if he used 0.2uF 4kv caps again then it came out at 405Khz

The coil came out at 0.77178uH

I want to double check these figures when i get some time, as in the doc he mentions 408Mhz

Peter







Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 22, 2009, 10:39:19 PM
@Yucca

Nice build ;)

Good luck for tonights tests.

@xenomorphlabs

It will be quiet interesting to get some hands on with his setup, hopefully we should be able to answer some of these questions.

Does anyone know what approx resonant frequency we are aiming for.

I tried to do some guesstimates by measuring the dimensions of the coil and if he used 0.2uF 4kv caps again then it came out at 405Khz

The coil came out at 0.77178uH

I want to double check these figures when i get some time, as in the doc he mentions 408Mhz

Peter

I have guestimated similar numbers, so i can confirm it !

One thing i am sure of, it is not a specific frequency that he is aiming for like suggested by some people who favour magic frequencies.
He stated that he just wants resonance and sticks as many caps on both sides as needed to achieve it.

As for his docs he mentions 200 Mhz too, but i am sure that is for different devices.
And for that the coils would have to be smaller i believe.
Except he considered some RF mysterious phenomenon coming from the spark gap only like Tesla observed too hehe.
 

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 22, 2009, 11:17:53 PM
Thats good it gives me something to aim for.

@Yucca what are you going to use for your spark gap.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 23, 2009, 01:49:57 AM
@peterae, thoriated tungsten rods 1.2mm diameter, ends ground perfectly flat.

OK guys, I fired it up quickly when I grabbed a few mins, proper testing is yet to come.

I tried earthing to my house wiring earth and 2 computers rebooted in the house :o. So I need dedicated earth connection in the garden for this.

This is running with the secondary free floating, no forced half wave.

I mention in the video that the higher frequency component is due to the flyback, but having looked at the trace some more I now think it is related to the aircoils instead because it appears to be the first harmonic perfectly phased with the fundamental.

here's the vid, apologies for grainy quality, it's an old digital camera in movie mode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ5IcBuSeTU

edit:
The gaps are both set at about 0.5mm and both have 2000pF over them.

One thing I´ve noticed when its been powered off for some minutes and its then started: upon starting the output gapfire frequency takes quite a few seconds to build to a higher and stable running frequency, quite weird!
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 23, 2009, 02:18:31 AM
@peterae, thoriated tungsten rods 1.2mm diameter, ends ground perfectly flat.

OK guys, I fired it up quickly when I grabbed a few mins, proper testing is yet to come.

I tried earthing to my house wiring earth and 2 computers rebooted in the house :o. So I need dedicated earth connection in the garden for this.

This is running with the secondary free floating, no forced half wave.

I mention in the video that the higher frequency component is due to the flyback, but having looked at the trace some more I now think it is related to the aircoils instead because it appears to be the second harmonic perfectly phased with the fundamental, so maybe were seeing both quarter and halfwave action occuring here?

here's the vid, apologies for grainy quality, it's an old digital camera in movie mode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ5IcBuSeTU

Nice set-up!  ;) Keep it up
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 23, 2009, 02:57:07 AM
forgot to mention, when running this device tied to my house electrical earth, the PSU voltmeter started reading noisy and low. So by mistake I turned it up to near 30V and my 13005 flyback drive transistor got zapped (1 down 9 to go).
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 23, 2009, 03:16:13 AM
xeno, I just noticed that the oscillations received by my probe have quite alot of positive DC bias. You can see zero line on the left, most power appears above zero which suprised me? Maybe this gives some credibility to Don using a polarised cap?

flathunter, looking forward to seeing how much radiated power you can harvest from your TC.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 23, 2009, 04:54:30 AM
xeno, I just noticed that the oscillations received by my probe have quite alot of positive DC bias. You can see zero line on the left, most power appears above zero which suprised me? Maybe this gives some credibility to Don using a polarised cap?

flathunter, looking forward to seeing how much radiated power you can harvest from your TC.

Interesting measurement indeed !
Does the DC Bias change if you change the orientation or position of the probe?
As i understand you placed it in a distance to the device.
It could be possible that the distance and angle has introduced some kind of phasing, just a thought.


Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: oscar on August 23, 2009, 07:32:02 AM
xeno, I just noticed that the oscillations received by my probe have quite alot of positive DC bias. You can see zero line on the left, most power appears above zero .....

Hello Yucca,
thank you for making the effort of communicating your findings.
It appeared to me, that your signal looks much like the "3 sister" wave form user "ronotte" found in his TPU attempts. He also got that DC bias.
In his experiments this wave form was generated by mixing of 2 (or 3) frequencies and somehow you get the same effect by different means.

You can see his waveform at around 4 minutes 10 seconds into this video of ronotte
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6kzqVSk8tc

He also wrote about it here on ou.com at the time.
I don't know what it means but thought I would mention it.

Thanks again for documenting your efforts.
Good luck.

edit:
you can see the zero line and thus the DC bias of ronotte's signal in the second photo here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3779.msg75270#msg75270
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 23, 2009, 04:25:20 PM
Hi oscar, yes I think the TPU may share many things with this device.

OK, I just found that when I move the scope probe further away the DC bias drops off very quickly. At 1m away it is there, at 2m away it pretty much disappears but the signal is still strong. I suspect that when close the probe is picking up a small electrostatic charge which then takes a few microseconds to bleed through the scopes 1MOhm input impedance.

When I use the secondary centre tap I get almost no output, I maybe need to up the frequency by using a lower primary tap.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 23, 2009, 05:05:36 PM
@Yucca

Now i know i am not strong on theory but when i think about the way the secondary is wired in parallel and then think about a conventional transformers secondary then i would imagine that they are subtractive and the net result would be very little output.
If he used 2 20 turn secondaries and wired as per a conventional transformer secondary we would get double the current, so i wonder if he has made a mistake in the drawing after all he does show 2 separate secondaries not 1.
My guess is that he is trying to receive 2 units of energy for every 1 unit he puts in less losses.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 23, 2009, 05:24:10 PM
OR

Even more interesting is the position of the center tap, in the circuit he shows the top half of the secondary is 1.29 times the size of the bottom half of the secondary.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 23, 2009, 05:30:41 PM
@Yucca

Now i know i am not strong on theory but when i think about the way the secondary is wired in parallel and then think about a conventional transformers secondary then i would imagine that they are subtractive and the net result would be very little output.
If he used 2 20 turn secondaries and wired as per a conventional transformer secondary we would get double the current, so i wonder if he has made a mistake in the drawing after all he does show 2 separate secondaries not 1.
My guess is that he is trying to receive 2 units of energy for every 1 unit he puts in less losses.

Peter

Peter, in one of his lectures Smith states that the part (half) of his secondary with the shunt has the function to get a better "signal" and the tap itself is supposed to provide a negative output/electron inrush path into the circuit (the factor that makes the amperage).

He repeatedly emphasises the center tap as the amperage-factor in his lectures/literature and points to the center tap in the NST as well as the center tap in the receiver coil and also the center tap in the output transformer coil.

The amplitudes of current and voltage are probably dependant on nodes/antinodes which have a specific position at resonance (at the ends and in the middle)
as well as other physical conditions inside the secondary circuit.

Quote
Even more interesting is the position of the center tap, in the circuit he shows the top half of the secondary is 1.29 times the size of the bottom half of the secondary.

I have noticed that too, it is as if he wants to indicate an asymetric voltage divider.
However we have to keep in mind that Smith/Tesla/Marks etc. all want to deceive replicators .
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 23, 2009, 05:42:11 PM
Same old problem, shame the photos don't show where the center tap really is or at least verify the coil configuration.  :'(

Still i guess it's possible to try the different configs

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 23, 2009, 06:09:28 PM
Same old problem, shame the photos don't show where the center tap really is or at least verify the coil configuration.  :'(

Still i guess it's possible to try the different configs

Maybe these 2 pics show it better? It actually looks to me like an exact center tap, which would make most sense antinode-wise.

Ah and to prevent any confusion, there is NO accurate schematic for the table device.
The schematics found in the pdfs differ from that device in some ways.

Are you intending to replicate exactly that table device?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 23, 2009, 06:37:19 PM
I have noticed a peculiar behaviour, perhaps someone can explain this asymetry?

OK, again operating with the secondary ends connected across bridge. gap distance kept the same in each case. Centre tap ignored. I was counting gapfires per second (gf/s) using a 20 second sample time:

==============================
When all of the secondary is ungrounded:
0.80 gf/s

When I ground the base of the secondary:
5.20 gf/s

When I ground the top of the secondary:
2.90 gf/s

==============================
then I reversed polarity of the primary coil and saw this:

When all of the secondary is ungrounded:
2.10 gf/s

When I ground the base of the secondary:
5.80 gf/s

When I ground the top of the secondary:
3.50 gf/s
==============================

These results are strange, why does grounding the base of the secondary give much higher output energy regardless of the polarity of the primary excitation?

Again I must also say again, the gf/s increases from a slow rate to a higher stable rate over the course of maybe 20 seconds. And then if you leave the device off for a few minutes you can see the slow rate on startup again, it really is weird, if you turn it off for just 10s then it starts up fast again. Could this be some aetheric inertial behaviour perhaps?

But always when I switch back and forth between top and bottom grounding I see a large difference in performance.

edit:
This is a radio circuit really, so maybe the tuning changes lots depending on slight adjustments, it's certainly got some weird behaviour and power outputs can vary greatly.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 23, 2009, 06:44:22 PM
xenomorphlabs


wow those pictures are handy did i miss some information posted somewhere?

OK this is making more sense now, so we know there's a cap on one side of the secondary, so we tune the primary and the secondary also.

now we see  a cap across the top half of the secondary and i cannot see a wire connecting the bottom half so i would guess it also is linked back to the top as per the diagram, so both halfs are indeed in parallel.

It is also interesting to see the construction of the coil, he uses 2 different sizes of tube, the inner has the primary wound on it, and he uses  2 seperate half length tubes, one for each half of the secondary and they each push onto the primary tube, we can see 2 wires connecting to the connecting block in the middle tap.

Now i would imagine the grey boxes are high voltage caps, although i would have expected to see diodes in there place, not that familiar with real high voltage components so i could be wrong, so wheres the diodes.

@Yucca
very interesting with the gf/s
Not sure what it means sorry.

Peter

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 23, 2009, 10:36:28 PM
i have now finished building my HV psu
I already have a loptx based supply i built some time ago for lifter tests.

but have been bringing together stuff i built for the TPU.
My new psu uses a blocking monostable driven from a signal generator followed by a 5 stage multiplier, i wasn't sure if i would get the current to produce a good enough spark but it seems to be ok i think.

Here's a video
http://rapidshare.com/files/270666679/BlockingMonoHV.asf

Although the mike doesn't pick up much of the spark sound it is quiet loud.
The current draw is low about 13ma at 90v supply voltage and the rails are clean.

peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 23, 2009, 11:05:23 PM
@Yucca:
Good to have some epiric data! Nice one.
In the TPU the orientation of the coil was important.
Upside down it did not work at all.
Maybe the orientation of the coil in your device is also important for its function in a similar way.

@Peter:
Here is a better resolution one: http://www.yousendit.com/download/YkxKOGNkWkJWRDljR0E9PQ

The diodes are there, in front of the HV cap positive terminal rail.
Actually the wiring of the secondary is quite remarkable.
The outer ends are connected together to the high pressure cable (plus line to the cap)
via the rectifier diodes.
And the center tap is connected to the minus line to the cap.
This is different than in Smith´s pdf diagram.
I have drawn a schematic of how it might look like, but i don´t know what these two components are in the top half of the secondary. Probably also caps ?!
Also that feedback unit is not clear to me in its functionality.

The OD of the primary is 2" and the OD of the secondary is 3"
The primary was supposed to be slidable inside of the secondary to tune the device,
but Smith was already tuned even without sliding just by adding two caps.

The remarkable thing about the whole device is that it seems to work with unidirectional impulses on the primary and the secondary with (nearly) no negative amplitude.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 23, 2009, 11:33:29 PM
Oh man thank you for that image what a difference a good photo makes.

Yes i see the problem identifying the 2 little grey components, they look like high value plastic molded resistors to me, i have never known small caps to be coloured grey before but i guess anything is possible.

That is also silver plated copper wire for the secondary not tinned.

The good news is now all i need to buy is 1 very high voltage high current diode as the output rectifier.

The box you have a question mark over on the output leg is an inductor.

I wonder how many of these components can still be bought i bet they turn up from time to time on ebay.

Cheers,
Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 23, 2009, 11:39:23 PM
Nice photo xeno, thanks, I have not seen that before.

The two unknown components, could they be 2 diodes smaller than the others or perhaps as peter says resistors?

Looking at it I think I see that the primary is wound around the pipe using HV cable in the middle of the top half of the secondary, the device is almost a 3 coil device in a way, it looks like the bottom half of the secondary is where he harvests most power hence the chunky parallel diodes on that coil segment. very interesting!
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 23, 2009, 11:46:10 PM
Yucca
Indeed it does well spotted, so i guess the primary was able to move the full width of the secondary to find the sweet spot.
No wonder his stuff hasnt been replicated to date it's so easy to miss things.

I have to say with that photo i feel we stand a lot more chance getting this baby going than any of the Tpu's.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 23, 2009, 11:50:26 PM
Oh man thank you for that image what a difference a good photo makes.

Yes i see the problem identifying the 2 little grey components, they look like high value plastic molded resistors to me, i have never known small caps to be coloured grey before but i guess anything is possible.

That is also silver plated copper wire for the secondary not tinned.

The good news is now all i need to buy is 1 very high voltage high current diode as the output rectifier.

The box you have a question mark over on the output leg is an inductor.

I wonder how many of these components can still be bought i bet they turn up from time to time on ebay.

Cheers,
Peter

Yes the secondary seems like copper litz. I have bought something in a store that looks exactly like it. (It is more suited for RF signals)

The questionmark device might contain inductors (probably two of them) but since this seems to be NOT the output transformer (because too small for 30 kW) i can not
identify its function and what might be inside.
Don Smith refers to it as the feedback system on his website, however it seems not to be wired to the primary-side inverter. So maybe he talks about another feedback than to the primary ?! Something that might contribute to the secondary functionality maybe even ???

Hmm, so you also think that the two little components could be resistors, that was my first thought, but i could not explain their presence at that place in the circuit would it be resistors. Or maybe also diodes? From just the appearance they look like smaller HV caps, something like in the 3-6 kV region and few pF capacity.
The fact that Smith paralleled two diodes in the bottom part indicates that he
has already quite some amperage flowing to the caps.

Nice that you nearly have all components together. Do you also already have comparable HV caps with enough power rating?
Looking forward to seeing your set-up soon ;)

The slidable primary can be seen in the 3rd pic.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 24, 2009, 12:10:00 AM
My shopping list is changing by the second LOL i will need to get the bits yet, i have already ordered bits, but in light of tonight's info and picture i feel we could possibly do a pretty close replication, not sure about the large grey caps, i don't suppose you know there values, i am wondering if we can use microwave caps with a begging trip to the local tip. Screwdriver in hand LOL

The final inductor device, although it has 2 coils he only uses 1 of them, the final inversion circuit must be a seperate unit which is not present but plugs into the output strip board.

I was hoping to try building a lower power device using lower spec parts but now am rethinking this and thinking of going for a close replication.

I have repaired similar 12v inverters years ago, they were used to power the old camcorders via the mains ;)
Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 24, 2009, 12:19:03 AM
My shopping list is changing by the second LOL i will need to get the bits yet, i have already ordered bits, but in light of tonight's info and picture i feel we could possibly do a pretty close replication, not sure about the large grey caps, i don't suppose you know there values, i am wondering if we can use microwave caps with a begging trip to the local tip. Screwdriver in hand LOL

The final inductor device, although it has 2 coils he only uses 1 of them, the final inversion circuit must be a seperate unit which is not present but plugs into the output strip board.

I was hoping to try building a lower power device using lower spec parts but now am rethinking this and thinking of going for a close replication.

Peter

I can only encourage you to go as close to the original as possible !
Personally i am staying away from insanely high voltages, thats why i chose to experiment more with downward conversion transformers (like Kapanadze does it)  as it makes components more affordable and the whole device less dangerous (see pic).
Tesla probably got most shocked with this type of devices than with any other hehe.
About the grey caps, i guesstimate them to be 20kV caps of 8-10 KW power rating each. Smith said they were custom made for him, very hard to get otherwise.
I think once you get the device going like intended you really need that huge caps or you´ll burn microwave caps or any comparable low power stuff.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 24, 2009, 12:37:22 AM
A video showing some strange behaviour on my rig, any theories to explain this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BFca2xGpaA
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 24, 2009, 12:50:39 AM
A video showing some strange behaviour on my rig, any theories to explain this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BFca2xGpaA

Hmm, i also have no standard explanation for that, but maybe there is one.
You are probably spot-on right with the aetheric inertia,
also the jet turbine start up of frequency just like in the TPU for example.
That is actually a remarkable find !

What colour does the output spark have to your eyes (camera shows it blue) ?

@Peter:

Nice video, cool lab set-up ;)
What do you mean with Blockingmono ?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 24, 2009, 12:57:12 AM
Hmm, i also have no standard explanation for that, but maybe there is one.
You are probably spot-on right with the aetheric inertia,
also the jet turbine start up of frequency just like in the TPU for example.

What colour does the output spark have to your eyes (camera shows it blue) ?

@Peter:

Nice video, cool lab set-up ;)
What do you mean with Blockingmono ?

the output spark appears very similar to the eye, blue.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 24, 2009, 01:04:49 AM
It might be eroneous, but maybe the ions (ozone ?) in the air surrounding the gap make the ionisation easier if you start it up again shortly after.
Maybe you could try opening the windows and whirling air around with a towel heavily and make the experiment again and see if that changes anything.
Well, really not sure about that though, you said it can take hours.
In that time the air would have well circulated anyway by itself.
Sorry, just an attempt to find an "ordinary" explanation hehe.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 24, 2009, 01:25:15 AM
It might be eroneous, but maybe the ions (ozone ?) in the air surrounding the gap make the ionisation easier if you start it up again shortly after.
Maybe you could try opening the windows and whirling air around with a towel heavily and make the experiment again and see if that changes anything.
Well, really not sure about that though, you said it can take hours.
In that time the air would have well circulated anyway by itself.
Sorry, just an attempt to find an "ordinary" explanation hehe.

I´m pleased to hear all ideas, I had thought exactly the same as you. The room has a ceiling fan in it and it shows the same behaviour when that is running.

I had also thought that maybe the diodes and/or cap were heating up as it ran, but they stay cool to the touch at all times. It´s still a mystery, maybe it´s a glimpse into the magical realm of this device?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 24, 2009, 01:32:51 AM
peter, your HV supply and multiplier in the video looks like it could be useful for these types of circuits, nice work, modular units are very handy for trying different things with.

Your LOPTX based device will probably come in handy too, must have a reasonable power if you got a lifter up with it. I´m pleased with the performance of my LOPTX HV module running in self resonance with one transistor, it´s opened up the world of HV to me. (maybe youve seen this vid already):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMl3pXvJ-mY

edit: I missed this earlier:

Quote
Now i know i am not strong on theory but when i think about the way the secondary is wired in parallel and then think about a conventional transformers secondary then i would imagine that they are subtractive and the net result would be very little output.
If he used 2 20 turn secondaries and wired as per a conventional transformer secondary we would get double the current, so i wonder if he has made a mistake in the drawing after all he does show 2 separate secondaries not 1.
My guess is that he is trying to receive 2 units of energy for every 1 unit he puts in less losses.

Smiths diagrams do have contradictions in them, purposeful obfuscation maybe? Smiths HV power module (laser PSU) is probably a few watts but he claims kW figure on the output. But your 1:2 theory sounds more believable lol.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: MasterPlaster on August 24, 2009, 03:13:30 AM
A video showing some strange behaviour on my rig, any theories to explain this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BFca2xGpaA
Yucca,
Perhaps the surrounding air moisture is responsible. Try heating the area surrounding the spark gap with a hair dryer/air gun. This should give you a clue.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 24, 2009, 03:31:41 AM
Yucca,
Perhaps the surrounding air moisture is responsible. Try heating the area surrounding the spark gap with a hair dryer/air gun. This should give you a clue.

Thanks for giving it thought, but I think I may have worked it out... The cap on the HV module DOES get quite warm when running, this maybe causing it.

I was only thinking about the aircoil board parts, sorry guys!
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 24, 2009, 03:57:36 AM
Thanks for giving it thought, but I think I may have worked it out... The cap on the HV module DOES get quite warm when running, this maybe causing it.

I was only thinking about the aircoil board parts, sorry guys!

If you have a 2nd equal cap, you could make a switch and switch between them and see if that changes when using a cold unused cap after operation. But that might not be of priority for you hehe
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 24, 2009, 04:32:57 AM
If you have a 2nd equal cap, you could make a switch and switch between them and see if that changes when using a cold unused cap after operation. But that might not be of priority for you hehe

good idea, I´ll try that tomorrow.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on August 24, 2009, 05:25:11 AM
Yes the secondary seems like copper litz. I have bought something in a store that looks exactly like it. (It is more suited for RF signals)

The questionmark device might contain inductors (probably two of them) but since this seems to be NOT the output transformer (because too small for 30 kW) i can not
identify its function and what might be inside.
Don Smith refers to it as the feedback system on his website, however it seems not to be wired to the primary-side inverter. So maybe he talks about another feedback than to the primary ?! Something that might contribute to the secondary functionality maybe even ???

Hmm, so you also think that the two little components could be resistors, that was my first thought, but i could not explain their presence at that place in the circuit would it be resistors. Or maybe also diodes? From just the appearance they look like smaller HV caps, something like in the 3-6 kV region and few pF capacity.
The fact that Smith paralleled two diodes in the bottom part indicates that he
has already quite some amperage flowing to the caps.

Nice that you nearly have all components together. Do you also already have comparable HV caps with enough power rating?
Looking forward to seeing your set-up soon ;)

The slidable primary can be seen in the 3rd pic.

Hi xeno.

it is very much like the MIT Physics Demo -- Resonant RLC Circuit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYgFuUl9_Vs

Pretty interesting stuff.

Jerry ;)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 24, 2009, 09:51:08 AM
Yucca

Here's some info on the blocking mono 5th paragraph is the circuit i used, but tailored the ferrite core windings.

http://mysite.du.edu/~etuttle/electron/elect37.htm

I have used a line transistor to handle high voltage, i have found it to be ideal for producing HV pulses and because it can be triggered using a sig gen can be driven at different freqs.
It consumes very little current and runs cool.

It can be very hard and unforgiving driving LOPTX's, your driver circuit works great, i built mine 5 years ago now, i used a 555 with a pot to set the freq and used a novel fet push pull stage, it has served me well during lifter tests but the fets do run hot after a while so it's only good for 5-10 minuet runs.

Regarding you gap fire speeding up, Nice setup ;) i would be surprised if it is the cap getting hot but don't know the answer, maybe you are building up electrostatic charges in the room.

xeno

It's hard to swallow the KW's of energy that are being quoted for Don's device, i think the best course of action for me is to do a rough build using lower grade components as these are readily available but keep looking out for bigger and better components because this could take some time and money.

Looks like you are way ahead you've done a fantastic job with collecting information for which we are really grateful -- Thanks.

Is anyone familiar with the make of spark coil he is using looks like Bertonee?? but not found anything on google but not sure of the first letter

Cheers,
Peter


Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 24, 2009, 10:06:33 AM
Bertonee are now called Ventex
http://www.ventextech.com/#neon!Energy%20Efficient%20Neon%20Power%20Supplies
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 24, 2009, 11:40:49 AM
@Jerry,

thanks for the link. I had watched all the lectures, but did not stumble about that experiment. It beautifully shows the tuning like in Smith`s device.


Bertonee are now called Ventex
http://www.ventextech.com/#neon!Energy%20Efficient%20Neon%20Power%20Supplies

Peter, thanks.
I usually try to gather as much info as possible before buidling something and since Smith is so cryptic about the functionality of his devices, i think it is most valuable to understand the principle before building something. Otherwise one doesn´t know how to seek errors and optimizations.

Quote
i think the best course of action for me is to do a rough build using lower grade components as these are readily available but keep looking out for bigger and better components because this could take some time and money.

You are right, we all have a tight budget.
Kapanadze`s early devices would be cheaper to build compared to Smith devices (no expensive caps),
but unfortunately no-one has figured out yet how he manages to keep the resonance
when hooking a load to the output.
Smith solves that by storing the energy in caps and then converting to the desired AC output frequency/voltage with the output transformer which galvanically separates the load from the secondary oscillator, so it could not kill the resonance whatever resistance (inductance) the load has.

Quote
Is anyone familiar with the make of spark coil he is using looks like Bertonee??

Good job on finding out that Bertonee is now ventex.
I guess you meant Neon power supply when you said Bertonee spark coil ?
The particluar model on the table device is described by Smith to be
a 9 kV 30mA model (very likely solid state) with a neon dimmer attached to the side.
I browsed ventextech`s website and your new info narrowed the possible output voltage range for the constant burn 12V NST in the small suitcase model (1500-4000V, but more likely 1500 V)

http://www.ventextech.com/#gen4!12%20VDC (http://www.ventextech.com/#gen4!12%20VDC)


I am looking forward to replicating that one too, however i still don´t entirely understand the schematic since Smith indicates a DC out coming from the NST (?!)
and it is a riddle to me how the big cap bank is supposed to magically convert a high frequency to a low frequency without commutation of some sort.
Also the cap bank is stated to be made for DC  in this schematic too, which
contradicts the necessity of AC caps in resonant RLC circuits for the oscillation, so that the caps won´t get destroyed by the wrong polarisation.

Thanks again,
Xenomorph

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 24, 2009, 03:35:33 PM
Hi all,

the change in output gap freq was definitely due to my input cap heating up, I tried swapping out for a cool cap and it started slow again.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 24, 2009, 04:46:56 PM
OK, I just tried turns ratio 3:24

Again I got almost nothing when trying to force half wave on the secondary. So I let it float and I presume it went into quarter wave.

I managed to get this nice scope shot of the 2 freqs involved here we can see the primary oscillating at 3.42MHz and the secondary as a lower contributer showing 606kHz.

So for device resonance I guess I need to tune these 2 freqs to be the same using cap changes and tap changes. Looks like I need a much bigger cap on the input stage for starters.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on August 24, 2009, 06:36:46 PM
MIT

RC circuits

http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/35785/2-003Spring-2002/OcwWeb/Mechanical-Engineering/2-003Modeling-Dynamics-and-Control-ISpring2002/Labs/detail/lab_6.htm

they have a search engine that you can use to find Literature and details.

Jerry ;)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 24, 2009, 08:41:23 PM
The large grey capacitors are lower than 2500v DC because of the type and size of the terminals , i found a 4kv oil filled cap and it had massive ceramic insulation on the terminals, because of this i have just ordered 5 of these
1uf 2500vDC
height 4 5/8 inches
width 2 1/2 inches
thickness 1 1/2 inches
weight 0.5kg
I believe these to be higher voltage rating but maybe lower uf see attached picture.

I think we can do without the exact bertonee transformer for now.
I would like to know where to get the clip strips for the coil construction.

The guy selling the caps is in the uk and has 5 more left with postage it comes to £61.50 for the 5
Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 24, 2009, 09:12:09 PM
I have now tracked down a supplier that has 5 of the exact large primary caps in stock, i have requested a quote for 2 of them, they are based in Florida and am not yet sure how much they are.

They are mica caps manufacturer is custom electronics
http://www.customelec.com/index.htm
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 24, 2009, 10:43:30 PM
Yucca
Wow it was the cap changing value, i wouldn't have thought it should change much over it's operating temperature must have been getting pretty hot i guess.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 25, 2009, 04:51:08 AM
Hi peter,

it was getting to maybe 50C, felt very warm but not hot, still comfortable to hold in the fingers.

Those big caps look like serious bits of kit, dont short them with a screwdriver it´d probably evaporate! I look forward to seeing if you can fill them at a fast rate, hope you can!

I´ve been playing with my rig a bit more, managed to get both primary and secondary oscillating at around 600kHz almost in tune. The transformer efficiency was reasonable, much less than 50% by my eye though. Interestingly I got most secondary power when I grounded the positive side of the bridge output (the node which 2 diodes point to) to my room radiator.

What I´d like to do is make a HV (20kV) cap module containing caps running in a power 2 series. so like 100pF 200pF 400pF 800pF 1600pF 3200pF 6400pF then also have a vacuum variable from 5 pf to 100pF. Using parallel combinations of these 8 caps can give any value of cap from 5pF all the way up to 12900pF at 1pF resolution or less. This is something I´d like to do but probably not for a while. It would be a nice bit of HV experimental kit though.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on August 25, 2009, 05:06:56 AM
get some infra Red Goggles!

it will help you out a lot.

Jerry ;)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 25, 2009, 09:09:59 AM

Those big caps look like serious bits of kit, dont short them with a screwdriver it´d probably evaporate!

  :o Still rolling around laughing  ;D

I look at these as an investment and if i ever needed to i guess i could resale them when i am done.

I like the idea of your cap bank, we may need something like this to find the value of the 2 mystery components in parallel, as well as tuning the primary and secondary coils.
What i am not yet sure is if he tuned 1 half of the secondary to the primary or the whole secondary, just seems strange he has the cap across one half in the device i am trying to build, i will try to do more ball park calcs today to see if it throws up some figures to work this out.

Are you in a position to move your primary coil realative to the secondary.

It's interesting the earth is making a difference.

keep up the good work, it sure is interesting.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 25, 2009, 01:25:34 PM
  :o Still rolling around laughing  ;D

I look at these as an investment and if i ever needed to i guess i could resale them when i am done.

I like the idea of your cap bank, we may need something like this to find the value of the 2 mystery components in parallel, as well as tuning the primary and secondary coils.
What i am not yet sure is if he tuned 1 half of the secondary to the primary or the whole secondary, just seems strange he has the cap across one half in the device i am trying to build, i will try to do more ball park calcs today to see if it throws up some figures to work this out.

So you will design your device for a voltage maximum in the secondary circuit of 10 kV?
As long as i dont misunderstand the primary circuit the lightning arrester will limit the voltage
on the primary side to 250-400 Volt,  so if you keep also a 1:10 winding ratio the caps you ordered
should suffice.

About the connection of the cap across only one half of the secondary coil.
It seems odd and might represent how little we understand of Smith`s thoughts.
It is very difficult for me to understand how the oscillation/resonance is actually supposed to happen
with a complex circuit like that hehe. Too bad it can´t be that easily simulated in spice :/
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 25, 2009, 02:20:37 PM
Hi xeno

When i did a search for oil filled caps on ebay several designs and ratings came up, it was possible to see the relationship between terminal size and working voltage as was expected, so using the ebay pictures as a guide i came to the conclusion there is no way that the metal can caps he uses are over 2kv working voltage, for instance there was a 4kv cap on ebay and it's terminals were huge and made of ceramic see attached picture.

So there is no way he had any higher than 2kv and i would say no more than 1000vdc on those caps, also in the diagram that Yucca has been building he goes on to connect the smoothed DC onto an inverter using 2 transistors driving another transformer to get back to 125vac, these transistors would never survive with 2kv on them.

There seems to be a lot of little discrepancies and i think we will need to work through these as best as we can, ofcourse i could series those 5 caps i have for much higher voltage so that is an option if we need to go down that route.

I found out that people use whats called grommet strips to hold coils winds together like that, not quiet as neat as the ones he uses but they will do the same job.

I have ordered some 14swg and 18swg tinned wire for now.

My Dip meter arrived today  ;)

Peter



Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 25, 2009, 03:36:15 PM
Peter,
you might be right there.
I have just asked me why Smith talks about the necessity for a 80 kV diode bridge in the diagram that you say yucca wants to build.
For some reason i also recall having read somewhere that one of these really was 20kV but i could be wrong.

Whatever hehe, i am sure yours will be good for a start.  ;) 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 25, 2009, 03:42:01 PM
Lol xeno
I looked up the size of a 80kv diode and it was 120mm long
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 25, 2009, 05:16:21 PM
Lol xeno
I looked up the size of a 80kv diode and it was 120mm long
Well the big diode pair on the secondary in the image of the table device could be similarly long.  ;)
Also those were a custom part and they are not manufactured anymore.
The switching time was remarkably fast on them for high frequency.
The amperage through them was probably between 2 and 4 amps. thats why he put 2 in parallel.
So at 3 amps and 10kV for the cap, the output could hypothetically reach 30 KVA   ;D

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Paul-R on August 25, 2009, 05:37:20 PM
The large grey capacitors are lower than 2500v DC because of the type and size of the terminals , i found a 4kv oil filled cap and it had massive ceramic insulation on the terminals
re reply #107,
Are you sure these are not the 2kv 1 uF caps in microwave ovens? If so, they are likely to have
a 1 megohm resistor connected internaly across the poles.

Also, if this is what you want, you should be able to carry off as many as you want from your
local recycling centre for nothing. Especially if you offer to bring back separated useful recycling
materials for their use (steel case, glass in door)
Paul-R
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 25, 2009, 09:58:13 PM
Paul-R

All the microwave caps i have seen are not square in shape but have quiet rounded corners, These are Ex royal Airforce Dubilier Nitrogol caps probably deisned to be used in their UFO Fleet  ;D

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 26, 2009, 01:44:11 AM
  :o Still rolling around laughing  ;D

I look at these as an investment and if i ever needed to i guess i could resale them when i am done.

I like the idea of your cap bank, we may need something like this to find the value of the 2 mystery components in parallel, as well as tuning the primary and secondary coils.
What i am not yet sure is if he tuned 1 half of the secondary to the primary or the whole secondary, just seems strange he has the cap across one half in the device i am trying to build, i will try to do more ball park calcs today to see if it throws up some figures to work this out.

Are you in a position to move your primary coil realative to the secondary.

It's interesting the earth is making a difference.

keep up the good work, it sure is interesting.

Peter

peter, yes buy those caps, If I still lived in UK I would! as you say always handy for other experiments.

I've been thinking about primary secondary tuning too. I first thought that a full bridge between L and C would kill resonance and just make a fully damped sink. But from experimentation I realise that the L does still see the C but it seems dynamic, that is to say the circuit shows resonance that is related to the charge on the output C, Secondary oscillation appears to increase as the output cap reaches peak voltage. With smiths massive output caps they are always hungry until full and  so maybe we can consider the secondary as a pure sink? So maybe only the primary needs tuning to a freq that is related to some oscillation occuring elsewhere, maybe it a high harmonic of schumann resonance, I dont know?

I have seen one weird thing about the circuit Im running, it appears more efficient when I ground the positive side of the bridge, its totally against what I presumed, I thought grounding the -ve side of the bridge would be best but no, a clear increase in performance when I ground the +v side of the bridge and output cap, weird!

Ive got a long way to go in understanding this circuit, I'm used to digital stuff and you know where you stand with that, 1 or 0. This thing seems alive with uncharted depths, it will be good to have other experimenters collecting more empirical data.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 26, 2009, 09:46:11 AM
Hi Yucca
I have a lot to learn and struggle with Resonant circuits and ac theory, i was originally trained in microelectronics, so give me logic any day  ;D also.

Not sure what country you are in but there was quiet a few HV caps for sale on ebay so probably quiet common across the world.

I never got a reply from Florida about the primary caps, i guess they are a big defense contractor and dont bother with the likes of little old me  :'(

Still i have a bag of large 1uF 1600v caps so will go for 5 in series to get the 0.2uf value.

Yesterday when i plugged some guesstimates into the secondary half winding of 20 turns with a 0.5uf it came out about 47khz, but the primary comes out much higher.

I was going to try tuning the primary and secondary using lower value caps and use my dip meter to get them resonant near the same freq then switch to the proper cap values, but now i dont think the primary freq is the same as the secondary.
Once i have the coil built i can get some hands on uH values and work from there i guess.

It is interesting that you say the resonant freq changes depending on the charge of the final cap, that would mean it would take a while to get up to a working condition, bit like the tpu winding up if it relied on a certain freq, but if any old final freq would do then it would have gain all the time during power up.

I wonder if the 2 unknown components then allow the coil with the cap to see part of the main cap bank also to make the tuning dynamic on that winding also.

Has anyone ever witnessed these devices being powered up?

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 26, 2009, 01:27:57 PM
Very nice what you guys are doing. This is finally going beyond theoretic discussion )
I am also no nuclear scientist, so my assumptions/statements can be wrong.
I have a hard time finding the words to describe exactly what i mean, i`ll try.
Yucca you say that your L "sees" the c on the secondary side.
I am not sure about how you actually wired everything. You have a schematic of your particular set-up now?
The secondary circuit will let`s call it "passively" follow the alternating currents happening due to the oscillation on the primary side and thereby also charge up the cap in one direction of the diode bridge.
Now the big question is if that is an actual "active" oscillation excited by the magnetic coupling to the primary.
The resonant circuit is not exciting itself because the diodes prevent a  "backswing" from the cap, just a new excitation from the primary will push it again.

Will a diode across the secondary in your circuit kill an "active" oscillation (that could go into resonance) by not allowing the bi-directional current flow to and from the cap ?
And does it matter at all to have the device function as intended ?

In Smith`s schematic, there is only an oscillation between half of the secondary and the cap aross that half. That seems to pump the big cap bank to a positive potential in a pulsed/sinusoidal DC-manner.

We must find a way to simulate this in spice or similar  ???
The longer i look at the circuit the more exotic ideas i get about it lol.
If only half of a coil is in resonance, what happens in the other half ?
 ;D
Also keeping in mind what Smith talked about the separation of the electromagnet (coil) into 2 parts according to his personal definition.
One "magnetic" and one "electric". Now it seems that he only puts the "magnetic" part (with the greater amperage) in resonance and NOT the "electric" part (with the greater voltage) separated by the center tap.
I always wondered why his devices are called "magnetic resonant" ;)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 26, 2009, 10:19:19 PM
Hi xeno

I think we are all guilty of making assumptions/statements, it's the only way forward when we have a device we don't understand and have a series of clues to tag together.

We all see a device slightly different, this can be a good thing as it may mean one of us gets close.

I myself am not good at the theory side of things, but i love building, so the best i can do is try tests and document in the hope someone brighter than me can come to a conclusion.

Something interesting i have noticed with the clear picture you gave us, the coil is new, the bottom chipboard is new, Don made a cover up SM style, and may have wrecked the coil and bottom board in the process.

One thing you learn with spray paint is that you never try painting a component with a spray can when there is stuff nearby, because it dont matter how carefull you are the fine spray particles go everwhere.

now you know the 2 mystery components, well they are battleship grey, now if you look around at different things like the terminal strip you see signs of this battleship grey everywhere, apart from the coil, smaller caps and bottom board, so he originally was trying to cover up their identity.

It maybe a mind game, when we are trying to replicate something and we cant identify a component we are much more likely to not succeed because we immediately blame the component we cannot identify.

I am going to guess they are just high value resistors, and their purpose is to bleed the caps when off, as you wouldnt want 2500 left on them for any time incase someone decided to touch the device a day later and got fried.
they may also give a small dc bias for some reason as well.

Guess B
There appears a sign of some black showing through in 2 places and if so logic might point towards 2 more diodes.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on August 27, 2009, 04:57:46 PM
@yucca

Any new news on your set up.  I think it's great!  I have recently read The Free Energy Secrets of Cold Electricity and am now hooked on radiant energy collection. 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 27, 2009, 07:45:56 PM
@yucca

Any new news on your set up.  I think it's great!  I have recently read The Free Energy Secrets of Cold Electricity and am now hooked on radiant energy collection.

Hi sptrue & all,

I've got some experiments planned, and I'll make a vid about the findings, stay tuned! I will try and split the bridge into two seperate pairs of parallel diodes (presuming as peter says those grey components are other diodes) like the picture of smiths device and then run two secondary halves through it, this should force half wave oscillation because its setting up two seperate quarter waves about the centre tap.

My device as Ive played with it at the moment has a flavour very similar to Dr Stifflers SEC exciter only in a higher powered mode. It definitely seems to suck electrons from ground, and into the +ve side of the bridge, the difference in efficiency is not slight it is VERY pronouced like 3 times as efficient when +ve node is grounded.

I would love to make some data logger with a microphone to listen to the output gap because I'm now also thinking that the device shows greater efficiency during dawn and dusk, another weird thing. My flyback supply runs real cool, transistor only gets to maybe 50C and so I could run it for several days and look for common behavioural changes through the day, if I see them then its an indicator that the device is interacting with the larger scale environment which is a good sign.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: flathunter on August 27, 2009, 08:31:47 PM
Hi Yucca,

Just for your information  - TT Brown found that the electrogravitic effect varied in power according to the time of day or night (I read this in Gerry Vasilatos' book ''Lost Science'').  Definitely worth looking into....

Anyway, good luck mate!
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 27, 2009, 09:29:29 PM
Also time of year and when it was pointed to a certain constellation, but cannot remember which constellation

@Yucca
You could record the sound into a wav and then use free spectrum analysis software, bit like some have done on the tpu noises.

You can buy sound recorders here in the uk real cheap that download via usb.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 27, 2009, 09:55:13 PM
The coil in the clear picture xeno gave us is different to the coil in the poorer pictures the larger outer tube doesnt over hang in the poor pictures, and i keep trying to count the turns in the clear picture and keep comming out at 19 each half, also it looks to me that there is no gap between both half windings in the poor pictures, but the clear pictures there is a 3 turn gap, i am wondering if he took 1 turn off the middle of each coil to tune the new coil.
Or maybe a gap in the middle is beneficial.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 28, 2009, 05:25:22 PM
xeno

Can i ask how you got the value and rating of the secondary cap, as it is still not clear enough to read in the best picture we have.

The reason i ask is that all the caps i have been looking at for 0.5uf 8kv are massive.

Cheers,
Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: bw on August 29, 2009, 06:37:11 AM
I have built two Don Smith devices.  I get readings of volts and amps on meter with one device (plasma globe), the other I got nothing but I didn't follow all Don's specs(dipole generator).  I know very little about electronics but feel Don's devices can be very powerful.  I remember him saying the more rapid the spark gets the closer the load matches the generator.  Or maybe Tesla said that.  He invented and patented a similar device with huge outputs.  Anyway someone on this form was discussing the time between spark discharges changing on their unit.  Hope this helps. 
I also remember Don talking a lot about photomultipliers so I googled it and after a little research this thing sure looks a lot like overunity.  They multiply one electron into 100 million electrons using only small power supply, they're used in night vision devices, old automatic headlight dimmers among others.  I bought Don's dvd and on it he describes a few devices and shows the camera a close up view of a neon power supply and says to look at the input and output ratings right on the nameplate.  The input watts are lower than the output.  His point was that overunity devices are all around us, we just do not realize it.  I ordered the neon power supply, mine is "NeonPro" and damn if it isn't overunity.  The input is 110v @0.5 amp that should be 60 watts.   The output is stated at 5000v @ I forget the miliamps but it calculated to 150 watts output.  This guy is for real and I just wish I knew more about electronics so I could SAFELY continue. 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: flathunter on August 29, 2009, 08:10:09 AM
I hope you are right!  I have a 150 W output Neon Sign Transformer in my Tesla Coil, and i'd love to find out it is already an OU machine!!!!

It would certainly save me a lot of bother!
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on August 29, 2009, 09:05:56 AM
Here is what BW was referring to.

I am working on solutions for just this cause but a little more complex than this using specialized crystals, Light trapping Crystals, Light Amplification Crystals, Photovoltaic Crystals all in one layering to greatly amplify Photons for the production of electricity produced in the Photo chain reactions with the LASED Crystals.

the dynodes below are electroplated with Gallium Arsenide.

Jerry ;)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 29, 2009, 02:28:44 PM
xeno

Can i ask how you got the value and rating of the secondary cap, as it is still not clear enough to read in the best picture we have.

The reason i ask is that all the caps i have been looking at for 0.5uf 8kv are massive.

Cheers,
Peter

Peter,
i have a 10kV cap here that is is rated 10nF that looks exactly the same size-wise like the one in Smith`s device. So you are absolutely right that
a 0.5 uF one would be much bigger.
I will look through the tons of data i have collected about Smith to find that quote and let you know if i should find it.

@bw: Great to hear that you already attempted to replicate a Smith Device !
Your input is well appreciated here as well as anyone`s constructive input so we can realize a working replication :)

Smith also states something peculiar about the dimmer on his Neon Tube Transformer, that if he reduces the voltage for the transformer with the dimmer the amperage in his whole device can go up more than the device can handle, so that is melts ?! Very interesting hehe.
I have ordered myself a 9kV 30mA NST with a dimmer on it. Let`s see if i can melt stuff with it :D

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 29, 2009, 03:12:08 PM
Hi xeno
Thanks for looking this up for me, i have seen a 0.05 10kv which may well fit the size we are looking at.

Almost finished gluing my first secondary together, i think the size is too big, i ended up 3.25 inches diameter DOH
Total Length 11.25 Inches with a 3 turn gap between each 20 turns.

I used 14swg wire for the coils, but think this is too thick compared to your photo's so i will make another secondary and try to aim for 3 inch outer coil dia using 16swg wire.

Dip meter showed res at 3.51Mhz using a 100pf cap for the 20 turn coil, I couldn't determine how accurate the cap was as i have 2 meters and each meter read differently.

To me the dimmer looks seperate in the clear photo and is on the end of the radioshack 12vdc to 125vac inverter , not sure if the bertonee transformer also had a dimmer built in, i have found very little info on this original transformer.

Shouldn't be too long before i'm also melting things  ;D

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 29, 2009, 05:56:08 PM
Hi xeno
Thanks for looking this up for me, i have seen a 0.05 10kv which may well fit the size we are looking at.

Almost finished gluing my first secondary together, i think the size is too big, i ended up 3.25 inches diameter DOH
Total Length 11.25 Inches with a 3 turn gap between each 20 turns.

I used 14swg wire for the coils, but think this is too thick compared to your photo's so i will make another secondary and try to aim for 3 inch outer coil dia using 16swg wire.

Dip meter showed res at 3.51Mhz using a 100pf cap for the 20 turn coil, I couldn't determine how accurate the cap was as i have 2 meters and each meter read differently.

To me the dimmer looks seperate in the clear photo and is on the end of the radioshack 12vdc to 125vac inverter , not sure if the bertonee transformer also had a dimmer built in, i have found very little info on this original transformer.

Shouldn't be too long before i'm also melting things  ;D

Peter

The dimmer is an extra device attached to the side in the table device.
Have you considered Smith`s advice on quarter length proportions of the coils?
3.51 MHz ? Interesting. Good to see first concrete measurements rolling in.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on August 29, 2009, 07:08:53 PM
I have built two Don Smith devices.  I get readings of volts and amps on meter with one device (plasma globe), the other I got nothing but I didn't follow all Don's specs(dipole generator).  I know very little about electronics but feel Don's devices can be very powerful.  I remember him saying the more rapid the spark gets the closer the load matches the generator.  Or maybe Tesla said that.  He invented and patented a similar device with huge outputs.  Anyway someone on this form was discussing the time between spark discharges changing on their unit.  Hope this helps. 
I also remember Don talking a lot about photomultipliers so I googled it and after a little research this thing sure looks a lot like overunity.  They multiply one electron into 100 million electrons using only small power supply, they're used in night vision devices, old automatic headlight dimmers among others.  I bought Don's dvd and on it he describes a few devices and shows the camera a close up view of a neon power supply and says to look at the input and output ratings right on the nameplate.  The input watts are lower than the output.  His point was that overunity devices are all around us, we just do not realize it.  I ordered the neon power supply, mine is "NeonPro" and damn if it isn't overunity.  The input is 110v @0.5 amp that should be 60 watts.   The output is stated at 5000v @ I forget the miliamps but it calculated to 150 watts output.  This guy is for real and I just wish I knew more about electronics so I could SAFELY continue.

Hi bw, nice info about input spark fire freq, something to bear in mind.

I guess in nightvision devices your talking about a photomultiplier which can also be triggered by eletctrons as well as photons. They are very much like a plasma based transistor. You can make one yourself by taking a small neon lamp and then bias it so it rests just under striking voltage.

Then any extra energy you show to the junction will be enough to cause plasma startup and then it switches hard on. I have had a neon lamp critically biased on the bench and then by simply shining a small torch on it that is enough to cause avalanche and ignition. I was shocked to see just how sensitive it was.

Old nightvision devices used arrays of gas tubes (multistaged as onthecuttingedge referenced) with refrigiration systems to reduce noise, they were very sensitive. but nowadays large die refrigirated chips can give even better sensitivity and especially resolution.

plasma conduction is quite magical though with aspects of superconductivity about it, could probably be used in OU devices somehow, so I do agree with you something very interesting.

When you built the plasmaglobe device can you remember approx V and I readings on output?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 29, 2009, 07:57:04 PM
xeno
I seem to be getting some errors in the calcs.

I tried a 100pf cap and got a dip at 3.5Mhz

I tried a 220pf cap and got a dip at 2.68Mhz

i tried a 470pf and got 1.82Mhz

Using an online inductor calculator with my coil dimensions i should have a theoretical inductance of 15.7uH

Now using the dip freq for each in a calculator i get

100pf dip was 3.51Mhz calculated inductance=21uH
220pf dip was 2.68Mhz calculated inductance=16uH
470pf dip was 1.82Mhz calculated inductance=16uH

I don't know what happened to the 100pf cap reading?

Lets use 16uH for further calcs

now my coil i have calculated is using 17feet of wire for each 20 turns coil.

so when you read Don 1/4 wave 1/2 wave ect you get the following

Don says in feet 1/4 wave =247/F Mhz

well i know the wire length so therefore FMhz=247/LFeet

so to calculate the 1/4 wave for my secondary i would need to resonate at
247/17 = 14.529Mhz

Now if my inductance is 16uH this would require a Capacitance of 8pF

So as you can see there is no way the secondary can be tuned for 1/4 wave unless it is the natural resonant freq of the coil without a cap, so maybe it is the other 20 turn coil that is to be made self resonant at the 1/4 wave freq, but the 20 turn coil that has the cap is at a different freq.

The full wave for my 20 turn coil =
998/17 = 58.705Mhz

My 20 turn coil using the 0.5uF cap would res at 56kHZ

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 29, 2009, 08:12:04 PM
Ha Ha
Just read Don's stuff again and b) say use natural freq for calculations ;)

So it looks like i need to find the natural freq of my coil, not quiet sure how i'm going to do this.
Any suggestions are welcome, i am thinking now that if i pulse it it should have a natural resonance i can scope, maybe the ringing freq or something.

I am guessing i may not be far off 1/4 wave already if that is the case ;D
Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 29, 2009, 08:23:04 PM
So as you can see there is no way the secondary can be tuned for 1/4 wave unless it is the natural resonant freq of the coil without a cap, so maybe it is the other 20 turn coil that is to be made self resonant at the 1/4 wave freq, but the 20 turn coil that has the cap is at a different freq.

The full wave for my 20 turn coil =
998/17 = 58.705Mhz

My 20 turn coil using the 0.5uF cap would res at 56kHZ

Peter

Peter and Yucca,
Smith actually talked in a presentation about the physical dimension length of the coil wire in relation to each other to be 1/4 !
He sais then you are almost tuned immediately, just the caps correct the last difference.
It can be disinfo though, at other points he clearly sais wavelength.
Maybe worth trying it out ?!
Maybe he talks about the total wire length, not only the part that is wound in circles around the coil former ?!
It might explain why he did not use a much shorter wire for the primary as
it seems quite long and bends away from the device and back to the PVC tubes.


Peter, your dipmeter is properly callibrated?
I cannot explain the deviations too  ???
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: gyulasun on August 29, 2009, 08:54:22 PM
Hi Peter,

If you are using the GDO for the first time (well if you are new to it lol) then the best advice is trying to make coupling to the GDO oscillator coil the minimum possible, i.e. very loosely (usually this means the smallest dip, 1-2mm needle movement) because otherwise the frequency calibration of the dial suffers, the circuit to be measured pulls the GDO frequency away.

It would be a good habit using a digital frequency meter too for checking the actual frequency while taking the dips, at least for a certain time till you have a good grasp on the GDO.  Sorry if you already know these though.

Re on finding the natural frequency of a coil.  Well if you try dipping a solenoid and you do not use any parallel capacitor with the solenoid then you try dipping it by going up with the GDO frequency into the tens MHz range, even beyond 40-50MHz or higher, depending on your solenoid number of turns, OD, etc, suddenly you should find a strong dip you would not expect if you are not aware of it: it will be the self-resonance of the coil, constituted by the self-inductance AND the capacitances between the turns. 

It is a good idea what xeno suggests:  take a piece of wire which is 1/4 wavelength at a certain frequency, then make a solenoid from that wire (at first try to adhere to 1:1 length/diameter ratio) and check with the GDO the coil self-resonant frequency described above.
Say you pick 30MHz, it is 10m full wave, and 2.5m quarter wave,  coil up a 2.5m piece of wire (of 0.5-1mm dia) onto a 1" bobbin and dip it.

rgds, Gyula
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on August 29, 2009, 09:24:15 PM
Hi Gyula

Thank you for the advice, only just got this one and am still getting used to it.

yes off course i can find the natural resonance using the GDO as well,  i thought of that after posting.

i will do the wire test also it will give me some hands on experience.

Thanks
peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: bw on August 29, 2009, 11:16:33 PM
here are a couple of links that might help someone working on Don's devices.  The first is the most complete writings from Don Smith I have found so far.  It says link is broken sometimes so if it comes up, copy. 

http://www.free-energy-info.com/smith.pdf

This next link is to Tesla's patent for a very similar device.  http://www.nuenergy.org/projects/U.S.%20Patent%20No.%200462418.pdf

peace
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: bw on August 30, 2009, 09:03:01 AM
Hi Yucca & Peterae and thanks.  You asked the volts and imped. readings, I have no fancy meters, only a cheap analog multimeter and on top of that I really don't know much about it's proper usage other than the one small page instructions, however I'll try to tell you what I got.  I tried several ways to charge a 12v battery but I'm not sending dc I think, so for now I disconnect the battery from the coil.  I have the plasma globe powered by an inverter running from the battery, on top is my first class aircore coil wound with five too many turns(20) I forgot to count and havent corrected to Don's 10-15 turns of 30 ft. of jumbo speaker wire.  Radio Shak didn't label jumbo so I got 16 gage wire, split it like Don said and wrapped it on a 6" pvc pipe.  The coil ends connect to an aluminum plate on top for one wire and a brass plate on bottom(could not locate copper plate locally) with a thin sheet of plastic between the plates, this was robbed from the dipole generator I built first.  To each plate I connected a wire to feed to a full bridge rectifier(Don mentioned one in a different device he built).  I may have the rectifier connected or sized wrong but my goal was to convert the ac from the plates into dc for my battery charge.  So far no luck with that part.  As far as voltage readings, I show 74 v. ac when connecting red to copper or aluminum plate and black to an earth ground.  When I connect red to one plate and black to the other I get zero reading, take one off and meter registers again.  You asked the i reading, I guess that is impedance, not sure how to read or adjust that but took a shot.  My meter has an upside U sign, if that is "i" then my reading when set to x10 is 1/2 or maybe .6 but I have no idea what that means. Sorry to be so green at this but I'm tryng.  It seems that when the plasma globe is on electricity is all over my workshop, what I mean is the meter gives reading without touching the wires at times.  I laid a probe down next to a small (1" x 3-4" long)coil spring in my shop and the meter registered volts.  Then I tried placing the metal coil spring on top of the globe inside the air coil just to see what happens and I got good volts, forgot how much.  Then I held the probe close to the spring and got a small electric arc.  that burns steady until the probe touches the spring.  The air gets a strong smell of nagative ions whenever I let it arc.  The odd thing is that you can touch the wires or spring without getting much shock if any.  I held a wire end tight and got a burn but no shock, odd to me.  I can connect a test light to the coil or spring and it burns bright as bright gets.   I just found and ordered a book I didn't know Don wrote titled "An Answer to America's Energy Deficit" by Donald L. Smith.  sold by befreetech thru Amazon.com, it should get here next Wed. perhaps I will learn enough to not electrocute myself when I get it right.  Also I think Peterae was trying to find the length of wire to resonate, I had problems because my neonpro resonates at 38-40 khz, Don uses a unit that resonates at 24.7 mhz not khz meaning a ten foot long wire works for his dipole generator(that is the wavelength for his frequency), my frequency calls for a wire around 6,500 feet in length if my memory is close.    I found a link to show wavelengths for whatever frequency you type in.  If I remember 10 ft. was full or 1/4 wave for Don's 24.7mhz, he says full, half, or quarter length works, the frequency calculator listed something like 119.987 inches.  I don't have any idea how much to shorten mine to resonate and I have no idea where to buy or how to wind that much wire.  I think the key to getting ou must be in resonating the coils like in an isolation transformer, the coils never contact each other in isolation transformers from what I read, they work much like two tuning forks, ring one and the other one in the other room rings.  cool huh
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on August 30, 2009, 02:07:56 PM
I had problems because my neonpro resonates at 38-40 khz, Don uses a unit that resonates at 24.7 mhz not khz meaning a ten foot long wire works for his dipole generator(that is the wavelength for his frequency), my frequency calls for a wire around 6,500 feet in length if my memory is close.

Sorry if i misunderstood you, but Don`s Bertonee (and other) Neon Tube Transformer use the standard frequency range typical for such devices of 10-40 kHz. In his videos he explicitely states his NTF to have a frequency of 30 kHz.
When he mentions 24.7mhz, then he refers to the resonance frequency of the entire resonant circuit (capacitor and inductor) and NOT the transformer.
You are basing your length calculation on a wrong assumption, that`s why your result is thousands of feet.
And look at Don`s table device, there is certainly only a few feet of wire on the secondary coil.
I hope that will get you back on track in building your device :)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: bw on August 31, 2009, 04:01:07 PM
Hi Xenomorphlabs,  thanks much for the input and suggestion.  I have no idea how to calculate the resonance frequency of the entire circuit, I thought the transformer set the frequency and the circuit has to be built to match or resonate at that frequency.  I did try reducing the 6000+ feet to much less by dividing but still no big power.  I tried several short versions.  My neon power supply operates at 38-40 khz so I used 39 khz as frequency to match.  The unit I get readings and visable arc from is the plasma globe Don describes, I assumed the plasma globe worked on much higher frequency.   Can you advise me how to find or calculate the exact frequency including my circuit?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: bolt on August 31, 2009, 05:09:13 PM
No need to resonant the NST, the NST high voltage supplies ENERGY to the RF tuned tank. Frequency of excitation into tuned tank is NOT important.

Thus 35Khz already contains wide base band signal and harmonics but not so important its the electron volts that will create resonance into the 1st RF tuned tank at any value you choose. This can be just 4 or 5 or 8 turns of wire with cap in the 1000Pf range will give oscillation in the megs range.

NOW the secondary MUST be magnetically and harmonically matched to this singing primary. Non entropy loss coupling appears in magnetic coupling of RF stages where ratio of winding provide E volts squared gains.  If my primary RF coil is 5 turns at 10kv then i have 2000 volts per turn. If my secondary RF tank is 100 turns then now i have 200,000 VOLTS!!

With referenced to the earth the local RE ambient electrons are now extremely violent but this amount of volts is expensive to handle so transformer back down by using a 3rd RF stage of just 1 turn of thick copper wire where C will be very large to LC = F. 

Now 2000 volts range is manageable we can use Micro oven caps and diodes.

At 2000 volts the loading is completely isolated from the primary NST driver.  The 200,000 volt is still in operation and the RE will be screaming to maintain neutrality.  It will provide hundreds of amps trying at 2000 volts on our o/p!

Remember number of turns changes volts required. Any frequency required from RF to grid 50/60Hz just add large cap bank to L so the F is lowered to desired operating frequency.  Splitting EM components only happens at RF and the higher the better.  Once conversion achieved to 50/60 Hz normal entropy losses resume. (deliberate choice so you have to pay for it)

RE = RF in energy transformation!

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: bolt on August 31, 2009, 05:34:25 PM
"The unit I get readings and visable arc from is the plasma globe Don describes, I assumed the plasma globe worked on much higher frequency.   Can you advise me how to find or calculate the exact frequency including my circuit?"

Plasma globe is an exciter source of energy as Electron volts. The frequency does NOT matter.

If you add a 4 turns collector top hat coil and add a microwave oven cap you have made a tuned circuit and the electron energy from the plasma will provide the excitation. The frequency is now transposed into the LC its that simple.  All you need now is earth one side and pull of the power into FWB and run a load. The current provided is a by product of Radiant Energy electrons returning home and has nothing to do with the source!
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Thaelin on August 31, 2009, 07:26:27 PM
Bolt:
   This begs the question of what is the best ratio of uf to uh? As a coil should not be more than 4 times the radius, the same goes for coil cap. For good Q, a low ohm coil to larger cap value should be used.
   Any ideas from you?

thay
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: bolt on August 31, 2009, 08:37:28 PM
4 turns collector that sits on the plasma globe try using Microwave oven cap to start. You can tune LC by adding variable pot R across the C and tune it for best results.

If you have GDO then look for at least 1 meg.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: bolt on September 01, 2009, 01:32:43 PM
Once you have made a top hat collector for your plasma ball you will find it will become a Tesla transmitter in it own right and amplifier the plasma signal and the entire room will become charged!

Another coil several feet way of same size, wire, turns and cap will pick up this energy and power a bulb.:)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: flathunter on September 01, 2009, 02:27:58 PM
Hi Bolt!

You seem to know a bit about Tesla transmitters - here a video i made with a transmitter and 3 receiver coils.  Like you said, the whole room gets charged when i turn on the coil  ;)
Heres a video (sorry to everyone else - they are the same vids i posted before)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS5TSZC3nEM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyfsnxCFU_Y

But I'm having trouble lighting anything except CFLs and small diode torches.  havent managed a typical bulb (yet).  Ive got 3 receiver coils - none of which are the same as my transmitter - they all contain less turns than the transmitter secondary, but 2 have the same wire thickness.  Any suggestions?  Or OU short cuts?  :D  Perhaps my receiver coils need more turns of wire?  Perhaps my receiver coils should have double the number of turns as the transmitter?  These are all things I plan to try out as soon as I get the chance - havent been able to recently thanks to family responsibilities.

Cheers mate!  Its great fun to play with!  Any advice with number of turns for receivers, or size of wire, would be greatly appreciated.

Oh, also i noted that the CFLs worked really well when they were touching that large piece of iron on the floor, which is connected to the receivers with a long wire.  Would changing this large piece of iron for something even bigger (say the central heating pipes in my flat) make any difference?  I wanted to try this last week, but was still a little scared of the neighbours getting electric shocks - most of my neighbours are rather old, and i didnt want a coronary on my conscience!
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 01, 2009, 05:34:44 PM
@xeno

Hi
I found the reference to the secondary capacitor in Don's stuff, he said 6kv 0.5uF

It does look quiet long in the video so i guess that would match up as he had it especially made.

Peter
PS i have just ordered the most amazing LCR meter for £49
http://uk.farnell.com/motech/tl-08b/lcr-meter-test-clamp-4-pole/dp/1307958
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: bw on September 01, 2009, 06:33:37 PM
Thank you Bolt.  What you say seems to fit and makes sence.  I know very little about circuits but I'm making progress in that.   After completly digesting all your input I'm sure I'll have questions but for now it needs to sink in my head.  Thank you again. 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on September 01, 2009, 07:07:17 PM
@xeno

Hi
I found the reference to the secondary capacitor in Don's stuff, he said 6kv 0.5uF

It does look quiet long in the video so i guess that would match up as he had it especially made.

Peter
PS i have just ordered the most amazing LCR meter for £49
http://uk.farnell.com/motech/tl-08b/lcr-meter-test-clamp-4-pole/dp/1307958

6 kv okay, well not excessively much voltage in the secondary coil then.
THE LCR-Meter is really nice (0,159 μH seems to be the lowest measurement range) Ordinary ones dont go that low, but this is exactly what is needed for this kind of devices.

Keep it up
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Paul-R on September 01, 2009, 07:52:49 PM

If you add a 4 turns collector top hat coil and add a microwave oven cap you have made a tuned circuit

*** microwave oven capacitors ***

Don't forget that they usually have 1 megohm resistor connected across the poles.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 01, 2009, 09:49:50 PM
xeno
I'm well chuffed with that meter for the price, it measures caps real accurately, Q and reactance values on the coila as well as ESR for caps.

Capacitance to 0.001 pf
Inductance to 0.001uH
impedance to 0.001Ohm


Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: lobo on September 01, 2009, 11:52:13 PM
Hi everybody,

Capanaze talked about "resonator". Audin has also resonator and according to this pictures in attachmen in points "P" and "P'" is maximal current and at the end of the coils "S" and "S'" is maximal voltage wich actually corespondates with mr. Smith!

See ya!
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 02, 2009, 12:41:36 PM
OK what seems too good to be true is too good to be true LOL
My meter arrived today and wasnt a meter it was a set of crock clips DOH.

So sent them back, and ordered a similar meter from china, same features bit less accuracy .

I have bits arriving on a daily basis at the moment, but still waiting for my diodes and HV wire from china.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 03, 2009, 06:42:48 AM
Peter, lol I thought that price was very cheap especially for farnell, I looked at the link and it looked like the LCR meter, especially as that is what was pictured? but reading again you must have just got the 4pole test clamp.

I´ve been busy with other stuff for a few days but plan to start more experiments with the coils I´ve built so far.

I read a few posts back that your thinking (due to reading smiths writing) that the primary needs frequency matching to the natural resonance of the secondary.

Here´s a nice vid of finding the working resonance of a T coil secondary, you may well have seen this already. The guy even hangs a wire of the top toroid to simulate the extra capacitance caused by extending streamers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Euy2U92I8e4

Of course I wont need to simulate streamers but I´ll try the same trick of just connecting the coil base to my signal genearator +v and leave the gnd clip unconnected and then stand a free scope probe next to it (which will probably even still skew resonance frequency?). This way I will try and find working (natural) resonance including capacitive, resistive and inductive elements of all secondary components.

I will also check for resonance of just the coil with the bridge disconnected, which I think maybe the true meaning of natural resonance of a coil in strict RF terms with only capacitive element provided by surrounding air, useful for antenna design.

One question is do we check for resonance with all components in working position, including sliding the unpowered primary into position?

It´s too late now to do it but I´ll probably get round to it tomorrow.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 03, 2009, 10:13:29 AM
Hi Yucca
Good stuff, it will be interesting to see what sort of figures you come out with for the resonance.

It's difficult for me to understand what Don says, he says match the secondary wire length to a quarter of the primary length if i have understood this correctly, and that when this is the case you shouldnt need much capacitance for tuning as they will be pretty close tuned, but then in the pictures we see large caps LOL and then with the device i am building we have 2 secondaries, 1 with a large cap and 1 without.

So the secondaries without the cap will i presume resonate at the fundamental frequency, but then what is the other secondary and primary frequency set to.

I also wonder what happens to the nautral resonance frequency of the coil that doesnt have a cap when a diode is connected to the final cap bank.
 

Yer the meter documents pulled the wool over my eyes, it's dam obvious really i wasn't getting a meter with regard to price DOH.

I was going to use a spark plug for my spark gap, but it looks like there maybe an internal resistor and rf noise suppression component built in these days.

Peter



Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: MasterPlaster on September 03, 2009, 12:39:19 PM
@lobo
What book are the pages you sent from?
Can you please post a link to it?

Regards
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Paul-R on September 03, 2009, 02:44:01 PM

Don's plasma ball "top hat" coil device.

In a recent entry to Chapter 3, (version: 19 August 2009) Patrick K mentions that the input device needs to have a variable frequency facility, this being adjusted to get best result.

Page 22 onwards:
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter3.pdf

Paul-R
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 03, 2009, 03:16:32 PM
Hi Yucca
Good stuff, it will be interesting to see what sort of figures you come out with for the resonance.

It's difficult for me to understand what Don says, he says match the secondary wire length to a quarter of the primary length if i have understood this correctly, and that when this is the case you shouldnt need much capacitance for tuning as they will be pretty close tuned, but then in the pictures we see large caps LOL and then with the device i am building we have 2 secondaries, 1 with a large cap and 1 without.

So the secondaries without the cap will i presume resonate at the fundamental frequency, but then what is the other secondary and primary frequency set to.

I also wonder what happens to the nautral resonance frequency of the coil that doesnt have a cap when a diode is connected to the final cap bank.
 

Yer the meter documents pulled the wool over my eyes, it's dam obvious really i wasn't getting a meter with regard to price DOH.

I was going to use a spark plug for my spark gap, but it looks like there maybe an internal resistor and rf noise suppression component built in these days.

Peter

Peter,

If you want to get a plug with guaranteed no resistor in it then go to some place that sells or services garden equipment with engines in like mowers, chainsaws etc. The small plugs for these engines always have no resistor. You can also get them off ebay UK or US "small engine plug". These small plugs are what smith used. I'll check back in tonight with my findings about resonance conditions.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on September 03, 2009, 03:31:11 PM
Hi Yucca
Good stuff, it will be interesting to see what sort of figures you come out with for the resonance.

It's difficult for me to understand what Don says, he says match the secondary wire length to a quarter of the primary length if i have understood this correctly, and that when this is the case you shouldnt need much capacitance for tuning as they will be pretty close tuned, but then in the pictures we see large caps LOL and then with the device i am building we have 2 secondaries, 1 with a large cap and 1 without.

So the secondaries without the cap will i presume resonate at the fundamental frequency, but then what is the other secondary and primary frequency set to.

I also wonder what happens to the nautral resonance frequency of the coil that doesnt have a cap when a diode is connected to the final cap bank.


Peter,
yeah that price was too nice to be true hehe for the LCR meter.
Glad to see you frowning about exactly that questions too ;)
Really hard to understand how 2 secondaries like that concretely
interact with each other.
I said it before, if that could be simulated it would help understand the physical processes, but unfortunately it cant (except if you are a SPICE genius). So it can be only measured.
That Hewlett Packard HV/HF devices would be nice to have :)

The diodes seem to have the function to create positive sinusoidal DC in both primary and secondary circuit
Hard to tell how they would influence the oscillation.
A comparable diode arrangement that i managed to simulate so far is looking really bizarre to say the least.

Have you considered really getting lightning arresters like Don uses?

@Yucca: Nice ideas !
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 03, 2009, 03:43:14 PM
Hi xeno
Yes i will be using one of those spark arresters now.

I am now going for as accurate measurements as possible to try and work out the relationship between primary and secondary windings.
I am in the process of making a second secondary using 16swg wire and an exact 3 inch former to wind onto and will this time measure the wire to the mm, once my meter arrives from china will be able to measure the inductance down to 0.1uH and also the caps down to 0.1pf.

Once i have this i can try winding a primary and see where a quarter length fits in with 20 turns or 40 turns, i suspect it will be a quarter of the 20 turns including flying leads on the primary as 40 turns is a lot of wire to match.

Once i have the inductance values i can see what 0.2 on the primary and 0.5 on the secondary compute at, which hopefully will allow us to get an idea of what he was tuning for.

I cannot read the manufacturer name on the diodes although i could read a number, the brand looked like Yarg to me but when googled didn't come up with anything of use, i am amazed he said they came out of a tv, must be an old tv as i have worked on most tv's from the 70's to 90's and never seen these.

You say they are Hewlett Packard ?

The old black & white TV's used long diodes called stick rectifiers but they didn't have wire leads they plugged in.


Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 03, 2009, 05:41:40 PM
if that could be simulated it would help understand the physical processes, but unfortunately it cant (except if you are a SPICE genius).

Hi xeno,

I agree to bring components into harmony spice is quicker and easier than winding and building and iterating etc. there's a guy on this forum called poynt99 who IS a spice genius.

As far as duplicating OU in Spice, you are right, a true genius would be required: by default it considers only that within the system, every component is a closed system with defined input and output nodes. RF simulations require extra more difficult modelling where circuit traces are also considered to have L and C elements.

I think if systems like Smiths do show OU then something else, unknown to us, will provide the potential to tap into it. In spice this something else would need to be modelled and entered in order to simulate it.

I think these devices may couple directly to large volumes of space and harvest some miniscule energy souce, but over a tremendous volume so the energy becomes appreciable. "Active antenna" is what I think may be the secret, use a small device to create a REALLY BIG dipole collection region occupying many billions of cubic meters and then simply rectify its output.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 03, 2009, 06:01:41 PM
I have worked with Poynt on some projects, and he has managed to simulate these, and i agree he is an absolute genious with regards to simulation and theory.
One thing i have learned from him is that it can take ages to even simulate a simple tuned coil setup.

I think the problem with this circuit regards simulation is that it has too many variables and way too complex to get the parameters correct.

and as Yucca just said it may not show the OU effect that we are hunting down.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on September 04, 2009, 05:07:25 AM
Well apart from the fact that Smith is an electrotechnical genius, he is also according to his own statements (which he nearly understates) able to simulate his circuits on a computer. He said that he doesnt even start to build something before he didnt run it through the computer. Sounds nearly unbelievable hehe. That must have been even pre-spice days. ;)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: lobo on September 04, 2009, 08:47:39 AM
@lobo
What book are the pages you sent from?
Can you please post a link to it?

Regards

hi MasterPlaster,


http://www.electrotherapymuseum.com/Library/Library2008Tesla.htm

search page:Armagnat
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 04, 2009, 09:21:57 AM
xeno
I will watch the film again, but the impression i got when i watched was he run the numbers through his computer, but dont remember him saying he simulated it, this could mean he chucked all the coil formula into a program entered how much power he wanted out and it designed coil dimensions and caps ect.

What i'm trying to say is there's 2 ways to sim a transfomer, you either use spice or you use pure maths of Vs/Vp= Ip/Is = Ns/Np ect

the latter he could use a zx spectrum LOL
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 04, 2009, 09:58:10 AM
I now understand how he closes the loop and powers a load at the same time.

The 2 coil inductor after the secondary caps is used as a 1:1 air transformer.

He is using a pulsed load probably much like the inverter on the diagram that Yucca is building with the 2 transistors, which draws pulsed current from the secondary caps, in the positive line from the secondary caps and his pulsed inverter load is the inductor which has the pulsed load current flowing through it, this induces a fluctuating RF magnetic field which is then coupled to the second coil on that inductor which is then rectified smoothed and fed back to the 12 volt gelcel.

So the whole circuit is recharging while powering the main load, the more power that is drawn from the main load the more power is put back into the gelcell to drive the primary inverter and neon transformer.

I am going to guess that 1 of the coils on that final inductor slides closer to the primary to adjust the coupling and hence recharge power that feeds back to the gelcell.

This is very clever and is probably in place of the matching resisitor he uses in Yucca's build diagram which matches the final output inverter, but a resistor is lost energy to heat, but using this inductor instead of waste heat we get useful recharge current instead.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 04, 2009, 02:09:10 PM
Finished my secondary coil build now.

Specs so far

Wire 16SWG

Outer Diameter = 8.2 cm

20 Turn Coil Length = 13.5 cm

full 40 Turn Length with 3 turn gap in middle = 28 cm

Wire length on each 20 Turn Coil including tails = 528.5 cm

Once my meter arrives i can give L

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: gyulasun on September 04, 2009, 02:15:58 PM
Hi Peter,

Very nice coils!

May I ask if you have already dipped them with your GDO?  I am just curious...  ;)

rgds, Gyula
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 04, 2009, 02:30:23 PM
Hi gyulasun

No i have not yet had a chance to do this.
I am not sure how accurate my GDO is and don't have a freq meter to confirm this, but when i did a dip on a small coil i connected my scope to one side of the dip meter coil and got a totally different freq on my scope than the GDO was reading, but this may have been because the scope loaded the coil i suspect, and i realize now i shouldnt have monitored the GDO this way, as i am new to using the GDO i need to get a bit more familar with it.

I am also worried that there are signs of it having been opened up in the past for what ever reason.

Another thing i notice when using the GDO is that the meter does move lower by itself when i move the tuning dial from min freq to max freq when sweeping, so it appears i need to keep adjusting the meter to read 0.8 as per the instruction manual, i am not sure if this is normal.


As soon as i get some time on the bench i will try different things to verify what the GDO shows.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 04, 2009, 02:34:56 PM
hi MasterPlaster,


http://www.electrotherapymuseum.com/Library/Library2008Tesla.htm

search page:Armagnat

I like this thought( in regards to the pic you posted), to me I see SM as well as a version of the tesla hairpin circuit.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 04, 2009, 06:04:51 PM
Finished my secondary coil build now....

Superb work! I glanced the pic before I read your text, I thought it was a pic of one of Dons devices I hadn't seen yet lol.

This is a good coil inductance calculator, you could use for ballpark figure:
http://hamwaves.com/antennas/inductance.html

edit:
What did you use for your six support ribs? looks like square wooden dowel, maybe hard balsa?

silver plated wire too, very nice. Looking like a serious replication of the tabletop device.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: gyulasun on September 04, 2009, 06:07:29 PM
...
I am not sure how accurate my GDO is and don't have a freq meter to confirm this, but when i did a dip on a small coil i connected my scope to one side of the dip meter coil and got a totally different freq on my scope than the GDO was reading, but this may have been because the scope loaded the coil i suspect, and i realize now i shouldnt have monitored the GDO this way, as i am new to using the GDO i need to get a bit more familar with it. 

Hi Peter,

You realized it correctly, connecting a scope (or its probe) onto one side of a GDO coil may pull the measuring frequency (normally downwards) with respect to the dial. However if you place the scope probe near to the GDO coil, say at least 3-4cm from it, (the ground clip can either be floating or connected to the metal body of the GDO if any or to the GDO's battery pole), then you should see on the scope the picked-up sinusoidal oscillator signal of the GDO in the most sensitive scope input range, the benefit is that such a loose coupling will alter the dial of the GDO but a very little. This way you can even check the dial's accuracy to +/-5% or so if your scope time base accuracy is around that. If you happen to have any digital scale radio receiver for AM up to 26MHz or so or an FM receiver (89-107MHz), then you may use them also for checking at certain frequencies. (if your GDO happens to have switchable AM modulation feature, then use it for finding the GDO signal by a digitally scaled AM receiver, but even without  any modulation, you will surely 'hear' it in the speaker whenever your sweep through slowly)


Quote
...
I am also worried that there are signs of it having been opened up in the past for what ever reason.

Another thing i notice when using the GDO is that the meter does move lower by itself when i move the tuning dial from min freq to max freq when sweeping, so it appears i need to keep adjusting the meter to read 0.8 as per the instruction manual, i am not sure if this is normal.
...


Well, most of the GDOs on market behave like you describe.  This is because the wideband oscillator included in the GDO has a changing oscillating amplitude. This change is manifested in the meter movement. However, the 0.8 reading requirement is not so strick you always have to observe,  you can surely use it around 0.4 or 0.6 for the quick sweeps, so you do not have to stop sweeping in the middle of a frequency range and adjust the level again to bring the meter down,  you can do level adjusting to near 0.8 later when you have found a dip.

Here are two links you may find useful on how to use a GDO (I assume the GDO manual also have some hints):
http://www.qsl.net/iz7ath/web/02_brew/15_lab/02_dipper/english/pag02_eng.htm
http://www.qsl.net/m3msm/gdo/gdo.htm

(Re on your notice of the GDO box have been opened up in the past,  well if you find big inaccuracies in the dial reading wrt the actual oscillating frequency, especially in the higher tens MHz ranges, then you may look for replacements of components inside the box, otherwise it has no significance.
Digital radio receivers can be accurate to 10kHz or so on AM and to 150-200kHz on FM.)

rgds, Gyula
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 04, 2009, 06:37:33 PM
I did some work with sig-gen and oscope on my setup last night:

pri:
7 turn with 2000pF

sec:
24 turn into FWBR into 2000pF

I measured the primary LC at about 1.6MHz with the gap closed and 7.5MHz with the gap open. But I know when it transmits it is closer to 2MHz (I sniff it with a probe 1m away when running). So when I hang any wires on this thing it increases C and lowers res.f.

I then checked for natural resonance of the secondary in situ using an unconnected sniffer scope probe. I excited the base of the secondary using a single wire off my sig-gen. I then swept looking for first resonance.

With FWBR connected:
fr = 16MHz

With FWBR disconnected:
fr = 16MHz

So maybe I need to get my primary singing at 16MHz, I will need a much smaller cap than 2000pF to get that even with only 2 turns. I'm seriously thinking of getting a vacuum variable cap although I suppose provided the input gap is narrow enough I could get away with a normal metal plate in air variable cap (much cheaper)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 04, 2009, 07:06:10 PM
Hi Yucca

Thanks for the comments.
I used grommet strip, see my post and picture on page 12 of this thread.
the grommet strip is quiet flimsey.
First i found a 3 inch tube, and it so happened i had been given a bottle of Glenfiddick Whiskey which came in a 3 inch carboard tube, so i first drank the whiskey over a 7 day period HICK Still got hangover LOL

I then tapped the grommed strips around the circumference, used a bakebean can from asda LOL to wind the coil first, i then transferred the 20 turn coil onto the Tube and into the grooves of the grommet strip.
I then applied 5 min epoxy glue into the grommet channels and let it harden.

I trimmed the ends of the coil noting how much length i took off to work out the final wire length.

The wire i used is tinned, i used this incase the enameled stops coupling to the atmosphere.

gyulasun
Thanks for this information it answers all my questions about how to use the GDO just need to get some hands on now ;)
The radio idea is great and will enable me to check the higher freq acuracy.

Yucca great stuff with the hands on ;) looks like i may need a better Sig Gen as mine only goes to 12mhz  :'(

 Very interesting the bridge doesn't alter the res freq.



Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 04, 2009, 10:19:46 PM
Hi Yucca

Thanks for the comments.
I used grommet strip, see my post and picture on page 12 of this thread.
the grommet strip is quiet flimsey.
First i found a 3 inch tube, and it so happened i had been given a bottle of Glenfiddick Whiskey which came in a 3 inch carboard tube, so i first drank the whiskey over a 7 day period HICK Still got hangover LOL

I then tapped the grommed strips around the circumference, used a bakebean can from asda LOL to wind the coil first, i then transferred the 20 turn coil onto the Tube and into the grooves of the grommet strip.
I then applied 5 min epoxy glue into the grommet channels and let it harden.

I trimmed the ends of the coil noting how much length i took off to work out the final wire length.

The wire i used is tinned, i used this incase the enameled stops coupling to the atmosphere.

gyulasun
Thanks for this information it answers all my questions about how to use the GDO just need to get some hands on now ;)
The radio idea is great and will enable me to check the higher freq acuracy.

Yucca great stuff with the hands on ;) looks like i may need a better Sig Gen as mine only goes to 12mhz  :'(

 Very interesting the bridge doesn't alter the res freq.

Hi peter, the grommet strip worked great, I will get some for my next secondary coil.

MY HV diodes weren't conducting at the voltages being swung and showed no noticable extra C. I left the wires in place, but just disconnected them at the bridge connectors.

Maybe tuning this device is as simple as first get natural resonance of the secondary coil/s and then tune the primary to match, just like regular T coil only were working with more manageable output voltages.

I was lucky with my sig-gen recently on ebay usa:

Tektronix:
TM503 modular instrument cab with PSU
FG504 Func Gen(0...40MHz 10nS rise into 50 Ohm)
PG501 Pulse Gen(0...50MHz 10nS rise into 50 Ohm)

I gambled and bought it untested with no warranty or return policy, $160 + $60 ship to Eur. The seller didn't even know what it really was. When I turned it on first a thick plume of brownish smoke rose from the PG501, gutted!, but it was just a snubber cap across that must have gone short in storage, luckily everything works fine now and I've cleaned it inside and out and made a new main knob for it. Here's a pic I carry in my wallet :D
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 04, 2009, 10:46:31 PM
Yucca
What a bargain nice 1.

I was bidding on a 1nF 2kv variable cap on ebay tonight but had to go out and was outbid  :'( ebay certainly can give up some bargains sometimes.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 04, 2009, 11:07:55 PM
Yucca
What a bargain nice 1.

I was bidding on a 1nF 2kv variable cap on ebay tonight but had to go out and was outbid  :'( ebay certainly can give up some bargains sometimes.

Peter, was that cap air or vacuum. If air then you probably wont get much more than 15MHz through it, which might well be good enough. Vacuum caps go easily up to 30MHz, but they're so damned expensive.

Maybe if your sig gen has square pulse then you could always hit the coil end with just the signal gen line at say 100kHz (no ground connection). Then putting your scope probe down on the bench say 4 inches away you may see ringdown at natural resonance freq.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 04, 2009, 11:33:51 PM
Yucca
yer it was air, i didn't realize they had a top freq, it's amazing how much we need to know when building this stuff, a fantastic way of learning anyway.

Wow just looked up Vacuum caps they look amazing, how do you adjust them?

Edit OH i see they still have an adjuster, i guess you fit a knob to the shaft


JENNINGS TECHNOLOGY COMPANY VACUUM VARIABLE CAPACITOR
• PN: CMV1-1000 - 0103 • Capacity Range: 8 - 1000pF
• Voltage (KV) Peak Test 3KV Test 3KV Working
• Current Amps (RMS) Max. 40A
• Type: Ceramic • Length: 4.33”
• Diam: 1.78” • Capacity vs Turns 10t = 8pF   0t = 1000pF
• Drive on TOP: Please Note, this is not ¼" Shaft, but a special "Spline" Cog Type Drive!! Click for large photo
• Frequency: 2 - 30MHz
• Brand New Item / Never been used. Unusual and very hard to find!
• Price:£125 (5pcs available) Click for large photo
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 04, 2009, 11:55:27 PM
@Yucca & Peterae

What do you think of this little test!!!  It is kinda like a small tesla hairpin circuit.  The interesting thing about it is that it is lighting an led on a different JT circuit...no contact.  Also you can see voltage reading off my DMM that's connected to my JT!  What are your thoughts on this?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 05, 2009, 12:58:34 AM
I now understand how he closes the loop and powers a load at the same time.

The 2 coil inductor after the secondary caps is used as a 1:1 air transformer.

He is using a pulsed load probably much like the inverter on the diagram that Yucca is building with the 2 transistors, which draws pulsed current from the secondary caps, in the positive line from the secondary caps and his pulsed inverter load is the inductor which has the pulsed load current flowing through it, this induces a fluctuating RF magnetic field which is then coupled to the second coil on that inductor which is then rectified smoothed and fed back to the 12 volt gelcel.

So the whole circuit is recharging while powering the main load, the more power that is drawn from the main load the more power is put back into the gelcell to drive the primary inverter and neon transformer.

I am going to guess that 1 of the coils on that final inductor slides closer to the primary to adjust the coupling and hence recharge power that feeds back to the gelcell.

This is very clever and is probably in place of the matching resisitor he uses in Yucca's build diagram which matches the final output inverter, but a resistor is lost energy to heat, but using this inductor instead of waste heat we get useful recharge current instead.

Peter

Peter, Interesting thought, it's a clever idea indeed. Thinking on that further maybe if the inverter switching were phase locked to the secondary coils natural resonance then oscillations could really be pumped? One can get to 20MHz easily with cheap N FETs.

Maybe the phase locking could be achieved with a small low ohm shunt in the inverter input line feeding a bandpass filter. Duty cycle could then be accomplished by turning the FET on at set phase angle and then turning off after a variable time.

The ideal phase angle to switch on I'm not sure.

I need to think about winding a two part secondary like yours. I need more wire and will get some grommet strip. First I'll try tuning what I've got for max efficiency.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 05, 2009, 01:09:18 AM
@Yucca & Peterae

What do you think of this little test!!!  It is kinda like a small tesla hairpin circuit.  The interesting thing about it is that it is lighting an led on a different JT circuit...no contact.  Also you can see voltage reading off my DMM that's connected to my JT!  What are your thoughts on this?

Nice experiment, that tiny HV module is very sweet, I want one! The spark gap's a beauty too!

The tiny red hairpin wire must be going at a hell of a lick lol, I'm suprised the blue base caps can keep up.

So the seperate JT is unpowered and in the vicinity and is lighting? Do you notice your hairpin neon dimming if you bring the JT coil very close to the hairpin?

Do you have another JT to put close by and see if power is shared or do they both light just as bright?

edit:
Do you have a scope available?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xee2 on September 05, 2009, 06:07:25 AM
@ stprue

Does the neon light if you remove the red wire loop?

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xee2 on September 05, 2009, 06:39:39 AM
@ stprue

I like your spark gap. Did you make it?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 05, 2009, 12:05:05 PM
stprue

great hairpin build, you must be having real fun with that little baby  ;)

Just wondering how far away the JT lights the led.

Nice HV psu are you willing to share details on this as it could be very handy for driving the primary on Don's coils.

Yucca

The grommet strip certainly spaces the wire well, a tip is to make sure you push something like a ruler down it's length before gluing just to make it look nice and straight.

The problem i have with my theory on the 1:1 coil coupling is that he says he uses 60Hz for the final load conversion to drive presumably household devices, and i wouldn't imagine the 1:1 coil would work at such low freq's

It looks like he uses crisscrossed litz wire on that final inductor

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 05, 2009, 02:59:57 PM
Nice experiment, that tiny HV module is very sweet, I want one! The spark gap's a beauty too!

The tiny red hairpin wire must be going at a hell of a lick lol, I'm suprised the blue base caps can keep up.

So the seperate JT is unpowered and in the vicinity and is lighting? Do you notice your hairpin neon dimming if you bring the JT coil very close to the hairpin?

Do you have another JT to put close by and see if power is shared or do they both light just as bright?

edit:
Do you have a scope available?

Here is the little driver and it's worth the $4.95 

http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16565

I through this together quick but the neon won't light unless I'm touching it, it is reaching with me, so the more surface area of my fingers that are touching it the more it lights up.  It will also light if touch the caps as well and if I remove the red hiarpin wire it stays lit fully....I can actually see little electrical sparks inside it.  I haven't noticed this but after my spark gap is put together it will be a lot easier to test stuff.  Right now it's just placed by hand.

I wish I had a scope.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 05, 2009, 03:01:01 PM
@ stprue

Does the neon light if you remove the red wire loop?

Yes it lights both side fully.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 05, 2009, 03:03:35 PM
@ stprue

I like your spark gap. Did you make it?

No I wanted something accurate so I bought one.  Here is the link!  Lots of good stuff here but not always the cheapest.

http://www.amazing1.com/sparkgap.htm
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 05, 2009, 03:08:17 PM
stprue

great hairpin build, you must be having real fun with that little baby  ;)

Just wondering how far away the JT lights the led.

Nice HV psu are you willing to share details on this as it could be very handy for driving the primary on Don's coils.

Yucca

The grommet strip certainly spaces the wire well, a tip is to make sure you push something like a ruler down it's length before gluing just to make it look nice and straight.

The problem i have with my theory on the 1:1 coil coupling is that he says he uses 60Hz for the final load conversion to drive presumably household devices, and i wouldn't imagine the 1:1 coil would work at such low freq's

It looks like he uses crisscrossed litz wire on that final inductor

Thanks,
I just posted the link for the driver to Yucca.  I have a feeling that it has nothing to do with the JT now.  I am thinking that between the +- rails and my Dmm it's a short...so if I'm right it is lighting because it's using the +- rails on the breadboard to gather energy and the short make it work.

I could be completely wrong so I will test this today and get back with results.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 05, 2009, 03:48:59 PM
@all

Looks like it is wireless!  Here is an led attached to an inductor and it is lit.  The other led on the +- rail was lit also and appeared to be the same brightness as the one on the inductor.  I can put 2 leds on the rail and they are lit very dimly.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xee2 on September 05, 2009, 04:11:59 PM
@ stprue

No I wanted something accurate so I bought one.  Here is the link!  Lots of good stuff here but not always the cheapest.

http://www.amazing1.com/sparkgap.htm

Great find. Thanks for the info.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 05, 2009, 04:18:12 PM
@ stprue

Great find. Thanks for the info.

No problem xee.  If you are working with lower voltages the spark gap will be very close and something precise really helps out! 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 05, 2009, 04:28:12 PM
Pretty cool vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdnG3EyikxI&feature=related
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 05, 2009, 05:01:33 PM
Here is the little driver and it's worth the $4.95 

http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16565

I through this together quick but the neon won't light unless I'm touching it, it is reaching with me, so the more surface area of my fingers that are touching it the more it lights up.  It will also light if touch the caps as well and if I remove the red hiarpin wire it stays lit fully....I can actually see little electrical sparks inside it.  I haven't noticed this but after my spark gap is put together it will be a lot easier to test stuff.  Right now it's just placed by hand.

I wish I had a scope.
Hi sptrue

You inspired me to try a hairpin on my protoboard last night. My caps were too big to get a small wire going. So just for kicks I threw a 22 turn toroid choke accross it instead of a hairpin wire. It is wound with twincore bellwire which has a shield layer of aluminium foil around it.

I gave my HV module 6V it took 180mA (so about 1W).

After running and playing with it for maybe ten minutes I noticed that the whole choke heated to quite warm to the touch, this level of heating was suprising as the choke has quite a mass it´s about 3CM diam. I may try some rough calorimetry on it. Every other component in HV module and also the hairpin caps remained at room temp thereabouts.

I also tried using the secondary choke wind to draw power off and lit a neon real bright and as you say through the bright orange glow I could see pinhead sized violet discharges dancing over the surface of each electrode.

I also tried a 1ohm 5W resistor across instead of hairpin wire. Using my scope I worked out the average power showing across it, it came out at close to 10W, I was extatic COP10 :o until I realised all of the power was seen in a 5MHz ringdown because the resistor has inductance to it and so the power factor of this oscillation would be very low :(

edit:
I´ve no doubt you´ll end up getting a scope in the end. If you live in the states then you should start keeping your eye on 2nd hand tektronix (or other qual brand) scopes on ebay. Not with a view to buy right away per-se but sometimes you get a real bargain passing through, especially if youre only after analog. I find when the auction ends at an ungodly hour less people are awake to battle at the end.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 05, 2009, 05:45:34 PM
Hi sptrue

You inspired me to try a hairpin on my protoboard last night. My caps were too big to get a small wire going. So just for kicks I threw a 22 turn toroid choke accross it instead of a hairpin wire. It is wound with twincore bellwire which has a shield layer of aluminium foil around it.

I gave my HV module 6V it took 180mA (so about 1W).

After running and playing with it for maybe ten minutes I noticed that the whole choke heated to quite warm to the touch, this level of heating was suprising as the choke has quite a mass it´s about 3CM diam. I may try some rough calorimetry on it. Every other component in HV module and also the hairpin caps remained at room temp thereabouts.

I also tried using the secondary choke wind to draw power off and lit a neon real bright and as you say through the bright orange glow I could see pinhead sized violet discharges dancing over the surface of each electrode.

I also tried a 1ohm 5W resistor across instead of hairpin wire. Using my scope I worked out the average power showing across it, it came out at close to 10W, I was extatic COP10 :o until I realised all of the power was seen in a 5MHz ringdown because the resistor has inductance to it and so the power factor of this oscillation would be very low :(

edit:
I´ve no doubt you´ll end up getting a scope in the end. If you live in the states then you should start keeping your eye on 2nd hand tektronix (or other qual brand) scopes on ebay. Not with a view to buy right away per-se but sometimes you get a real bargain passing through, especially if youre only after analog. I find when the auction ends at an ungodly hour less people are awake to battle at the end.

I will get a scope some day.

Your tests sound pretty interesting.  I'm still working out how the led on my other circuit is lighting but it looks like it has something to do with the + rail and a few other factors.  Anyway I will figure it out!!! 

Instead of a choke try a power inductor like in my pic.  It works ok. I think the radiant event is taking place off the tungsten electrodes so that is where I think it could be captured.....maybe  ;D
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 05, 2009, 06:37:06 PM
I will get a scope some day.

Your tests sound pretty interesting.  I'm still working out how the led on my other circuit is lighting but it looks like it has something to do with the + rail and a few other factors.  Anyway I will figure it out!!! 

Instead of a choke try a power inductor like in my pic.  It works ok. I think the radiant event is taking place off the tungsten electrodes so that is where I think it could be captured.....maybe  ;D

At such high freqs your protoboard rails can couple quite effectively to the source oscillation, the magical world of RF... :) I would imagine you could tune the LED brightness by moving a small shunt up or down the power rails to tune for resonance.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 05, 2009, 08:45:11 PM
At such high freqs your protoboard rails can couple quite effectively to the source oscillation, the magical world of RF... :) I would imagine you could tune the LED brightness by moving a small shunt up or down the power rails to tune for resonance.

That is a good idea but not for this set up.  I already tried to no avail.  It is using part of my JT and/or part of my +probe of my DMM even when it is off.  I will do some more tests Sunday or Monday when I have some time.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 05, 2009, 11:13:49 PM
Yucca
yer it was air, i didn't realize they had a top freq, it's amazing how much we need to know when building this stuff, a fantastic way of learning anyway.

Wow just looked up Vacuum caps they look amazing, how do you adjust them?

Edit OH i see they still have an adjuster, i guess you fit a knob to the shaft


JENNINGS TECHNOLOGY COMPANY VACUUM VARIABLE CAPACITOR
• PN: CMV1-1000 - 0103 • Capacity Range: 8 - 1000pF
• Voltage (KV) Peak Test 3KV Test 3KV Working
• Current Amps (RMS) Max. 40A
• Type: Ceramic • Length: 4.33”
• Diam: 1.78” • Capacity vs Turns 10t = 8pF   0t = 1000pF
• Drive on TOP: Please Note, this is not ¼" Shaft, but a special "Spline" Cog Type Drive!! Click for large photo
• Frequency: 2 - 30MHz
• Brand New Item / Never been used. Unusual and very hard to find!
• Price:£125 (5pcs available) Click for large photo

I checked out the site, that looks like a good vac cap at a fair price, 1000pF is nice and high, 3kV sounds low but should be enough for this particular device judging by Dons gap width. I'm not sure what happens if you overvolt vacuum caps, do they just arc, does a conducting plasma begin to form, do the copper cap plates get pitted or otherwise damaged? Maybe a plasma glow develops because I often see them made with clear glass envelopes, perhaps for eyeballing when running?

Maybe on this device we could get away with air caps, they only drop off when you drive them hard, for high impedance work they should get to much higher freqs. But I suppose in this case we will be driving it pretty hard and wanting a fast powerful impulse and large amplitude ring when the gap fires, perhaps a high power rated aircap would suffice if we were running at say 0.1 of its power rating? But then that would be big and pricey too. hmmm...
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Paul-R on September 06, 2009, 03:32:50 PM

I wish I had a scope.

Why not go back to your old school and talk to your Head of Physics?
You might be able to start up a dialogue, and maybe bring your
rig in and test it on their premises.

Alternatively, you could ring up the Group Chief Accountant of any very
large firm, possibly British Telecom, and ask them if they will give you
one (They say "Yes" more often than one would think):
British Telecommunications plc
81 Newgate Street
London
EC1A 7AJ
This number may not be right, but you should ask for the correct one:
Tel: 020 7356 4894 (international: +44 20 7356 4894)

Paul-R

p.s. I suggest the chief accountant because they often have a very boring
life, and your intervention may be the most fun they have had for years.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: allcanadian on September 06, 2009, 04:39:45 PM
@stprue
Quote
I wish I had a scope.
Another option is to get your hands on an old CRT computer monitor or small television that everyone is throwing away these days, the premise of a crt is that an electron beam is deflected by a magnetic field. A mosfet gate is voltage driven which can be used to drive the deflection coils. A mosfet/555 can be used to drive the horizontal deflection coils and a mosfet on the vertical deflection coils will convert a voltage potential to a proportional current in the coils. It is a cheap alternative if you are playing with HV fields which tend to destroy oscilloscopes.
Regards
AC
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 08, 2009, 02:19:05 AM
@stprueAnother option is to get your hands on an old CRT computer monitor or small television that everyone is throwing away these days, the premise of a crt is that an electron beam is deflected by a magnetic field. A mosfet gate is voltage driven which can be used to drive the deflection coils. A mosfet/555 can be used to drive the horizontal deflection coils and a mosfet on the vertical deflection coils will convert a voltage potential to a proportional current in the coils. It is a cheap alternative if you are playing with HV fields which tend to destroy oscilloscopes.
Regards
AC

Lol, my first scope was using my black and white TV twenty odd years ago. I used the existing TV vertical drive circuit to drive horiz yolk coils at about 29KHz scan freq. I drove the vertical yolk coils from an audio amp. No trigger made it all but unusable but it was cool watching music on it. I actually installed a DPDT toggle switch and a jack socket so I could switch my TV to scope mode and play my radio or tape player through it.


Speaking of scopes and music, this is a very cool X/Y vector encoded demo being viewed on an analog scope:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1eNjUgaB-g

if you have a 2ch analog scope with X/Y mode then try it yourself by putting probes across your computers audio output. When you run it you can observe the clarity of your computers audio amp, mines pretty poor and muddy.

The youtube info text contains a link to the waveforms to use in FLAC or WAV format.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: flathunter on September 08, 2009, 10:31:33 AM
I gotta respect you builders on OU.com.  Using the insides of a TV as a scope??  Now that really is hardcore, A Team style  ;D

Keep up the good work!  I'm too busy for any more Tesla fun, but when i finally raise the cash to move into a place with some space for the little one as well as my T.Coil, i'll be joining you.  Till then I am following every word with great interest.....
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 08, 2009, 04:05:52 PM
Why not go back to your old school and talk to your Head of Physics?
You might be able to start up a dialogue, and maybe bring your
rig in and test it on their premises.

Alternatively, you could ring up the Group Chief Accountant of any very
large firm, possibly British Telecom, and ask them if they will give you
one (They say "Yes" more often than one would think):
British Telecommunications plc
81 Newgate Street
London
EC1A 7AJ
This number may not be right, but you should ask for the correct one:
Tel: 020 7356 4894 (international: +44 20 7356 4894)

Paul-R

p.s. I suggest the chief accountant because they often have a very boring
life, and your intervention may be the most fun they have had for years.

That's good info, thank you kindly!
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 08, 2009, 04:07:25 PM
@stprueAnother option is to get your hands on an old CRT computer monitor or small television that everyone is throwing away these days, the premise of a crt is that an electron beam is deflected by a magnetic field. A mosfet gate is voltage driven which can be used to drive the deflection coils. A mosfet/555 can be used to drive the horizontal deflection coils and a mosfet on the vertical deflection coils will convert a voltage potential to a proportional current in the coils. It is a cheap alternative if you are playing with HV fields which tend to destroy oscilloscopes.
Regards
AC

Doesn't sound to impossible to do!  thanks.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 08, 2009, 05:49:05 PM
@All,

I'm going to wind another 24 turn secondary identical to the one I've already wound and then join the two secondaries together to yield a 48 turn split coil. I will make the joiner be adjustable so I can try different coil spacings.

I've also realised that at these frequencies you need to keep wires straight and fairly rigid because movement of wires changes L and wires getting too close changes C and so it doesn't stay in tune.

@Peter, your build is looking nice and rigid just like Dons did, this is important for ease of tuning.

My new coil will also be mounted on its side and I will move the primary cap and gap onto the coil board so the connections between them and L1 stay the same. I will use single cored copper wire with PVC insulation, like used in house wiring.

Thinking more about Dons table top device: it may be in effect a 3 coil device. 1 primary coil and two identical 1:1 coupled secondaries. The magic might happen between the two secondaries as peter has been speculating already.

One thing that bothers me is that the only tuning point we see on Dons device is the slidable L1. To tune a device like this I would think we would need variable C1 to tune L1 to L2/L3. Don seemed to have hit the sweet spot with two standard value C1s and integer turn L1. Was he lucky? In these aircoils the Q is quite narrow and peaky.

The only thing that might make me less suspicious is if the secondary end variable  resistor to ground enables one to tune L2/L3 half wave resonance precisely? I don't know yet because I havent established half wave resonance yet with nodes on the ends and antinode in centre tap.

I have just noticed a few 1kV caps of different values on some TV boards I have shelved, and I will desolder them later today. They should be OK provided my primary gap is kept at say 0.5mm or less.

Also I've just realised my bridge diodes have a minimum response time of 100nS (for some reason I thought it was 10nS). So I'm thinking that the max freq sin I can rectify is 10MHz. That's worrying because the natural 0.25 wave resonance freq of my 24 turn coil is about 16MHz, that means half wave resonance of a similar 48 turn coil would also be about 16MHz. Will faster diodes be needed? maybe.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 08, 2009, 06:12:57 PM
Hi Yucca
When people spend years refining a device like Don did, i think it's always a good idea to try to replicate fairly closely as i am sure the evolution of the device ended up how it looks for a whole number of reasons.

The only tuning i can think of is the relation of primary being 1/4 of the secondary (20Turn coil)

I doubt his diode would be above 10Mhz, if indeed it was an Ex tv diode then it's operational freq would be approx 17khz, and i am presuming this is the reason he tunes down in freq with such large caps, because else where in his doc's he specify s as higher freq as possible for greater power generation.

What if resonance isn't the whole answer to the power gain, what if the real OU power occurs relative to the natural resonance of the primary-secondary relationship regardless of the capacitors that tune for overall functionality of the system.

I think wire length is the key. tuned resonance is not the answer for OU but is a requirement along with other factors.

Peter
PS my rectifier diode arrived today and i don't seem to have much room to mount it LOL it's 15cm long and 2.5 square section  :o
100nS 20KV 3Amp
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 08, 2009, 09:01:20 PM
Hi Yucca
When people spend years refining a device like Don did, i think it's always a good idea to try to replicate fairly closely as i am sure the evolution of the device ended up how it looks for a whole number of reasons.

The only tuning i can think of is the relation of primary being 1/4 of the secondary (20Turn coil)

I doubt his diode would be above 10Mhz, if indeed it was an Ex tv diode then it's operational freq would be approx 17khz, and i am presuming this is the reason he tunes down in freq with such large caps, because else where in his doc's he specify s as higher freq as possible for greater power generation.

What if resonance isn't the whole answer to the power gain, what if the real OU power occurs relative to the natural resonance of the primary-secondary relationship regardless of the capacitors that tune for overall functionality of the system.

I think wire length is the key. tuned resonance is not the answer for OU but is a requirement along with other factors.

Peter
PS my rectifier diode arrived today and i don't seem to have much room to mount it LOL it's 15cm long and 2.5 square section  :o
100nS 20KV 3Amp
Hi Peter,

That diode sounds beefy and expensive! Don't overvolt it!

What do you think the C of his input tank is, I'm guessing his 2 combined polyprop caps were around 1 ... 2uF 2kV? The 10 turn primary is probably 5...10 uH.

So primary LC resonance night be from  35kHz ... 71kHz, or more fuzzily 10 kHz to 100kHz.

If don says tune to natural resonance of secondary then there's no way his secondary natural freq could be below 10MHz half wave. His big output caps do not form an LC tank, the bridge and output caps appear to only damp the natural oscillation of the output coil. When the output caps are full then the apparent resistance is infinite and oscillation is pretty undamped, when the caps are empty and hungry the output coils natural ringdown is heavily damped and harvested into the caps.

We can almost guarantee that the primary LC frequency in the order of kHz was not matched to the natural frequency of the output coil/s which is in the MHz.

Another thing that I've been thinking is that on the video we see Don say how his devices were OU. But the only physical demonstration he gives is a handheld DC HV coil giving an arc from the output terminal of a 2 alu sheet capacitor, I can replicate that with my LOPTX, tin foil and corrugated card in about 10 seconds and understand why it does that (plates bleed to atmosphere especially at HV). Why not show his suitcase device selfrunning? It's not as if he's kept the device description secret and he does claim it is OU, why not combine those two claims into a real life demonstration? hmmm?

Sorry, I guess I'm in a pessimistic mood, but don't worry I will continue to develop and explore my replication attempt, if nothing else it's teaching me hands on about basic RF electronics. And loads of other proposed OU schemes involve RF.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 08, 2009, 09:46:16 PM
Hi Yucca

Lol the diode was £20, now the way i see this is that i could have taken the Mrs down the road for a curry or bought 2 of these, what she cant work out is that we haven't been out for a meal in ages  ;D

Don used 4 turns primary with 2 x 0.1uf 4kv Caps in para

Secondary i count 19 turns each half but he said 20, one of the 20 was in para with a .5 6kv cap.

the problem is we don't understand the true energy gain method and i doubt it would make theoretical sense even if we did.

There are lots of discrepancy's with Don's docs, so we have 2 choices
1) he's a fraud and didnt understand even the basics of theory
or
2) he knows whats wrong with theory and how to make these devices work.

As we are both here i think we can lean towards number 2.

in that case i only have what he says and what he writes to try and see any sense in the way he wires his stuff up, it's worse with the tpu we dont even know how he wired it, so we have a head start here.

I am just trying to stimulate thinking out of the box.

I know what you are saying about Don not showing a working device, i think you have to work on any of these devices with a thought that they maybe a fraud and primarily use the experience as a learning aid, maybe this is the one, best to remain positive.

There has to be a reason Don doesn't tune the diode winding, and there has to be a reason why he tunes the primary and the other secondary, the diode wont possibly rectify the natural resonant freq of the coil so it must be converting something else, i am guessing it's picking up from the tuned primary or the tuned secondary something that would be destroyed with a cap placed across the diode coil.
Who knows, maybe the natural resonant coil is supplying some form of current pumped from the ground and the tuned resonant coil is supplying the voltage, join the 2 together and you get power, my theory is not good enough to say either way and i am not even sure if theory comes into it.

The thing that worries me was he said the Neon transformer is OU on it's own, is this showing a lack of true understanding as it seems hard to swallow.

what amazes me is how the hell did Tesla get on without a scope LOL





Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 08, 2009, 11:15:22 PM
Peter,
Lol, you should rustle up a homebrew curry for your better half to keep her sweet, plenty of onions fried in plenty of butter until caramalised and then just bung stuff in (meat, veg etc) with curry powder and Yoghurt and coconut powder for a korma, tomato puree for baltis masalas etc.

I will remain positive, it's the only way to proceed as you say.

Maybe a NST is OU at resonance if the input is set up as a tuned tank thats pumped at secondary resonance? easy enough to test with HV diode bridge and cap bank on the output, hmmm.

Speaking of testing, one thing I really need to get hold of is a variety of purely resistive shunts like say 0.1, 1 and 10 Ohm. At RF wirewounds are too inductive. I've read a saltbath and stainless electrodes makes a good zero inductance shunt but it's not practical and I don't want brine all over my bench and equipment.

p.s.
can you recommend any uk seller for castellated Grommet Strip that would sell a meter or two?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 08, 2009, 11:16:06 PM
it's interesting in the clear picture of the secondary that xeno gave us has a gap of 3 screw terminals on the tuned cap secondary but only 1 on the diode coil.

Well on the cap side we have the width of the cap itself, but then on the diode side why not use 2 terminals for the gap why only use 1, well maybe because the diode coil was a fixed length and was too long to use the end terminal, but just right to stretch to the one it's on.

So it's important that both secondaries are the same length, but why because one has the cap on, so why is it important that both are the same length?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 08, 2009, 11:33:05 PM
Peter,
Lol, you should rustle up a homebrew curry for your better half to keep her sweet, plenty of onions fried in plenty of butter until caramalised and then just bung stuff in (meat, veg etc) with curry powder and Yoghurt and coconut powder for a korma, tomato puree for baltis masalas etc.

I will remain positive, it's the only way to proceed as you say.

Maybe a NST is OU at resonance if the input is set up as a tuned tank thats pumped at secondary resonance? easy enough to test with HV diode bridge and cap bank on the output, hmmm.

Speaking of testing, one thing I really need to get hold of is a variety of purely resistive shunts like say 0.1, 1 and 10 Ohm. At RF wirewounds are too inductive. I've read a saltbath and stainless electrodes makes a good zero inductance shunt but it's not practical and I don't want brine all over my bench and equipment.

p.s.
can you recommend any uk seller for castellated Grommet Strip that would sell a meter or two?

Lol good idea with the curry ;)

The Grommet strip i bought was £5 for 5 meters, i cant remember which size i used now, but can tell you when i get to work tomorrow they do 2 different sizes.
http://www.rapidonline.com/productinfo.aspx?&tier1=Cables+%26+Connectors&tier2=Cables&tier3=Grommets&tier4=Grommet+strip&moduleno=62447&catref=04-0210&kw=04-0210

I have used all 5 meters on 2 40 turn coils

I wonder if it's possible to use carbon rods for resistors?
I once made a pencil lead glow nicely using a battery
maybe too high in ohms for 0.1 though
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: pese on September 09, 2009, 04:25:55 AM
To Yucca:

Ref.

Speaking of testing, one thing I really need to get hold of is a variety of purely resistive shunts like say 0.1, 1 and 10 Ohm. At RF wirewounds are too inductive. I've read a saltbath and stainless electrodes makes a good zero inductance shunt but it's not practical and I don't want brine all over my bench and equipment.

------------

Saltbadh ? good idea, bat you never find 0,1 or 1 Ohm.

Use One Constantan , copper or simple steal/ion wire

fold then double or quart (4-times)

so you have not more inductance.
even if you wind them as an -small- bifilar tesla pancake coil

Gustav Pese
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 09, 2009, 09:52:18 AM
There are relatively cheap current sense resistors that are low inductance and not too expensive.

Farnell show 866 items for current sense resistor search although some are US stock

I have used this one before

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1653230

here's a non inductive 100 Watt but it's £28
http://uk.farnell.com/ohmite/tghgcr0100fe/current-sense-power-resistor/dp/1703776

Peter

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 09, 2009, 10:26:43 PM
Check this out...

My little not so accurate hairpin lighting an led on dc and ac at the same time on the same coil.  It is also able to charge caps!!!  The coil is one of my JT's but I'm only using the single pickup.  Voltage on my DMM on the dc side is 2.63v.  You can notice the coil is on the wires from the gap...yes I know there is induction going on but the energy is coming from either side of the gap apparently like Ed Gray described and I can move it off and still light the leds they just aren't as bright.  Anyways some food for thought.

P.S. With 1 or 2 leds the voltage and amp draw is the same.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 09, 2009, 10:39:25 PM
Ill let you know how far it will charge a cap when it's done.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 09, 2009, 11:07:45 PM
Here is something new!

The led is on ac and the blury neon I'm touching with my other finger but it is not hooked to anything...just unused rails!  The led not in the pic on the other board is lit pretty bright and it is not connected to anything.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xee2 on September 10, 2009, 04:29:14 AM
@ stprue

Lighting a neon is not too hard. But it takes much more power to light an LED. I am trying to understand just what you have done. Is the following your basic circuit?

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 10, 2009, 02:01:40 PM
More info has come to light.
I was right, Don said Voltage component from tuned secondary, current component from un tuned secondary.
Wire length ratio is everything between Primary and secondary windings.
Operational frequency is less important.

Secondary cap is now confirmed at 0.047 6000 VDC
Primary is 5 turns
The mystery components later painted grey are also confirmed to be diodes se pictures below before he painted them.

 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 10, 2009, 02:49:26 PM
@ stprue

Lighting a neon is not too hard. But it takes much more power to light an LED. I am trying to understand just what you have done. Is the following your basic circuit?

Almost, I have a bridge coming off the driver which changes it to 645vdc (around that anyways) so the spark gap is dc.  As for the neon it is pluged into empty rails that are not connected to the circuit soooooo it is lighting off an interaction with my finger.  I I do not touch it, it will not light!
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 10, 2009, 02:52:31 PM
@Peterae

Keep up the great work, your replication is really looking great.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 10, 2009, 03:06:57 PM
There's a lot of conflicting information said by Don in his interviews.

What we need to remember is the devices were built many years before he had these interviews that describe their operation, and in between these years he has had a number of strokes, you then realize he is lucky he can talk at all in the interviews, his face is paralyzed down one side and as he talks he dribbles because of this.
He obviously has some trouble remembering exact build details as he stands there telling you a cap has one value and when the camera zooms in it's a totally different value.

I have not been able to verify the value of the large paper-oil caps he says they are 8uF 2000v but he also says they are wired in series, and in the pictures they are obviously in parallel.

Peter
 

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 10, 2009, 04:00:28 PM
What are your plans for the recharge coils?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 10, 2009, 04:18:43 PM
I will probably try making my own litz wire coils and work on the basis of making a few sets untill i have the recharge level right.

but

before this can be done i need to design and build a cpu based HV inverter 1200-2400v 50Hz to 240VAC system
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 10, 2009, 05:36:40 PM
I will probably try making my own litz wire coils and work on the basis of making a few sets untill i have the recharge level right.

but

before this can be done i need to design and build a cpu based HV inverter 1200-2400v 50Hz to 240VAC system

Hi Peter, great new photo details, can't get better than that really in terms of quality from a video source.

What microcontroller are you planning to use for your inverter module? I've worked with quite a few platforms 68HC11, PIC, ATMEGA and lots of older Z80 based things. Some assembly code work but mainly C.

But for the past couple of years I have always used and recommended the Arduino/Freeduino platform. It's really quite powerful, cheap and very extendeable. Also a great development environment is available for free that allows you to code straight in C.

This UK based site sells micro boards and great addon screens (with code libraries to get running fast), I've ordered lots from these guys, great fast service and quality boards! Oh and the freeduino micro board comes already populated with an atmega168 with preloaded bootloader (what a price!).

http://www.nuelectronics.com/estore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=1

Development time is very fast and simple, just plug the board using USB cable to PC and the IDE compiles and squirts down the binary. Interrupt handling is a breeze and the ADC on ATMEGA is very precise and linear with quite fast aquisition time.

You can buy stackable breakout boards with breadboard layout for peanuts, a really well implemented platform and REALLY low cost.

Sorry to sound like an advert, but I REALLY like arduino lol.

edit: couple of photos of a pulse motor platform I buit with a freeduino module, delay and width adjusted with mini joystick on the LCD module:

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 10, 2009, 05:42:37 PM
Hi Yucca

I have a micro electronics background from the 80's LOL so a bit outdated.
I have used C but normally for simple things like this i will use machine language and already have all the PIC development kit so will probably go with these as they come in anything from 6 pin upwards at very low £1-£2 prices.

I also was a Z80 pro  ;D and designed quiet a bit of film animation equipment using them, shame really it's the one micro i have never returned to but have always loved the code structure of the good old Zilog chip.

I was a one man proto devolper at one point and always proto on my own pcbs, very fast turn around and a lot neater than breadboard ect.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 10, 2009, 05:50:28 PM
Hi Yucca

I have a micro electronics background from the 80's LOL so a bit outdated.
I have used C but normally for simple things like this i will use machine language and already have all the PIC development kit so will probably go with these as they come in anything from 6 pin upwards at very low £1-£2 prices.

I also was a Z80 pro  ;D and designed quiet a bit of film animation equipment using them, shame really it's the one micro i have never returned to but have always loved the code structure of the good old Zilog chip.

I was a one man proto devolper at one point and always proto on my own pcbs, very fast turn around and a lot neater than breadboard ect.

Peter

Yes of course, go with the PIC, fastest if your already geared up. Oh yeah! Z80 was nice and clean and logical the registers were easily remembered and well organised. I only work in C and C++ nowadays. Do you have your own PCB fab facilities?

edit: forgot to mention, I was in industry for about 5 years as an embedded software engineer, I was writing upgrades (adding GUI screens) and fixes for machines built in the 80s so lots of z80 and 68HC11 work. Now I'm self employed PC software developer so embedded only used for hobby projects.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 10, 2009, 06:12:22 PM
Yer i have an amateurish light box and a tray for my devolper and acid LOL.

But with cad it's easy to knock it out fast, and if there are errors or design changes then there's easily a version 2, i tend to use mostly SMD these days because you can buy the res and cap kits for £20 and you have nearly all the components you will ever need all in a small compartment traym, also some of this stuff like my last Pulse controller worked down to 250ps res with fast rise times and it would be impossible to build without double sided pcbs and a ground plane.

I really do recommend anyone to work this way it's the only way to proto from my experience, you can spend ages getting a RF circuit going on plug board, but would never be in a position to transition easily to pcb because of the stray cap ect, and vero and breadboard is a nightmare if the circuit has buses or complex wiring.

 


Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xee2 on September 10, 2009, 06:54:10 PM
@ stprue

Almost, I have a bridge coming off the driver which changes it to 645vdc (around that anyways) so the spark gap is dc.  As for the neon it is pluged into empty rails that are not connected to the circuit soooooo it is lighting off an interaction with my finger.  I I do not touch it, it will not light!

Thanks.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 10, 2009, 07:26:14 PM
Secondary cap is now confirmed at 0.047 6000 VDC

I can see 0.047 mF but to my eye it looks like 8000 VDC. Maybe you eyeballed it better from another angle though? Not that it matters as much, it's the capacitance val that's most important.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 10, 2009, 07:30:24 PM
@ stprue

Thanks.

That's it xee...perfect
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 10, 2009, 09:47:36 PM
Hi Yucca
When i view a series of frames together it's 6kv, i agree it does look a bit like 8, i couldn't find a frame though that clearly showed 6.

I still say he didn't have more than 2kv on those caps as he probably used bipolar based inverter and this would have had trouble over 1200v, although i guess he could afford to drop a bit across the recharge coil, and he does state the paper caps are 2kv 8uF and they are in parallel.

I think he talks about using a spark gap to limit the potential on those caps as well to protect against over voltgae, infact this maybe the way to go for an initial closed circuit run, just use the SG as a load and run the recharge coils back to the gel cell via rectifiers, if it runs forever crack open the champagne LOL



 

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 11, 2009, 06:08:44 PM
Quote from SM

Interesting food for thought.

Series resonance produces voltage amplification and parallel resonance causes current multiplication within an electrical system. In a harmonic rich environment, both types of resonance are present."
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 11, 2009, 06:52:14 PM
This kinda explaines the hairpin!

A spark-gap transmitter is a mechanism for producing radio signals. It has been the primary radio transmission device during the early years of radio technology. It was soon superseded by other transmitters due to its discontinuous radio wave production and widely varying frequencies.

 
How a Spark-Grap Transmitter Works
A spark gap transmitter is basically composed of two capacitors (electrical apparatus designed to store electrical energy). However, the switch that ultimately forms the connection between the two capacitors is ionized gas (the air gap) that facilitates the passage of an oscillating current from one side of the transmitter (from one capacitor) to the other.

In normal conditions, the air gap forms a barrier between the two capacitors. To break the gap, a spark must be induced. To this end, the capacitor that is directly connected to a power source is charged with electricity. The electrical charge does not immediately dissipate because of an in-built resistor that 'holds' the charge.

After the electrical charge reaches the minimum threshold voltage, the electric charge passes through the resistor to the conductive electrode touching the air gap. This electrode subsequently releases the charge towards the gap and this ionizes the air within the gap; this forms a connection between the two electrodes at the gap.

This initial spark makes the air gap conductive and the pulse generates an electromagnetic wave in the radio frequency range (around 350,000 Hz). This transforms the spark-gap transmitter into a resonant circuit (an inductor-capacitor setup) where alternating current is conducted. This process is very similar to what happens when the negatively charged particle from the air touches the positively charged particle on land in a lightning flash.

Very soon after the initial spark, though, the wave weakens since some of the energy escapes though the antenna found on the side of the second capacitor and some are used up due to resistance. At a certain point, the ionized gas builds up resistance once again and the flow of current stops. Since the radio wave is weakened after a while, spark-gap transmitters acquired the name 'damped oscillation' transmitters.

A typical spark gap transmitter is powered by high voltage transformers feeding AC power. The latter allows the capacitor to charge quickly and in a fixed cycle which can be controlled to allow for 'pulsing' radio signals.

History of Spark-Gap Transmitters
In a way, spark-gap transmitters may have been the key to the development of wireless transmission. In 1862, James Clerk Maxwell predicted that electromagnetic waves can travel through a vacuum; in 1888, Heinrich Hertz used a spark-gap transmitter and a spark-gap detector to prove that the transmitter was producing electromagnetic waves - every time the transmitter sparked, small sparks were observed in the receiver's spark gap.

Guglielmo Marconi, inspired by the experiments of Hertz and others (including Nikola Tesla), was able to develop practical and workable wireless telegraphy using high-powered spark-gap transmitters. Though they could not be used for voice transmission, spark-gap transmitters still became the standard equipment for the military and the maritime industry.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xee2 on September 12, 2009, 01:20:34 AM
@ stprue

This kinda explaines the hairpin!

If the hairpin lines are close together they will tend to store energy. If the hairpin lines are far apart they will tend to radiate energy. For best radiation, maximize area inside of loop.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 12, 2009, 02:47:36 PM
@xee

Yes this seems to be the case with my basic tests I have preformed so far.  I have lots of ideas today.

On the circuit diagram you made...could you put 2 caps after the bridge that go from + - and then I doubled up to 4 coming off the spark gap.  I have been getting better results with this.

P.S. Are you working with a similar circuit at this time? 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xee2 on September 12, 2009, 06:56:11 PM
@ stprue

I have been getting better results with this.

What value are your capacitors. They look like 30 pF. Are you adding the extra capacitors in series or parallel. I would not think adding is series would help. But adding in parallel will increase the energy stored before the spark fires. This would increase the current and energy in the spark and thus also the energy in the hairpin loop.


I started to do this some time ago but could not find a good spark gap. I am now working on a different project. You have created a simple cheap way of doing Tesla experiments and I am curious to see what kind of results you can get.

I will update the drawing when I find out if they are series or parallel.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 12, 2009, 09:54:58 PM
@ stprue

What value are your capacitors. They look like 30 pF. Are you adding the extra capacitors in series or parallel. I would not think adding is series would help. But adding in parallel will increase the energy stored before the spark fires. This would increase the current and energy in the spark and thus also the energy in the hairpin loop.


I started to do this some time ago but could not find a good spark gap. I am now working on a different project. You have created a simple cheap way of doing Tesla experiments and I am curious to see what kind of results you can get.

I will update the drawing when I find out if they are series or parallel.

The cap after the bridge is in parallel and the 4 caps coming from the spark gap are in series 2 each side.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xee2 on September 12, 2009, 10:28:27 PM
@ stprue

The cap after the bridge is in parallel and the 4 caps coming from the spark gap are in series 2 each side.

I do not think that having more than one cap is any different than just using a different value capacitor.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 12, 2009, 10:48:35 PM
That looks good xee..I agree about the caps but I don't have enough to always change up. Adding the same value caps together can help you diversify what you have.  I have found a way to double the pickup voltage...it's kinda funny it is starting to look more like a tpu!  I will post some pics after fine tuning it.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 13, 2009, 03:55:21 PM
@all

What do you think of Bruce's releases? 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 13, 2009, 05:37:30 PM
Yes it's interesting, but i would imagine he's had this information for a while, so what were the results of someone that has already built it, or What happened when Bruce built it?
After all if it is indeed the solution he would have built it right?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 13, 2009, 06:46:39 PM
I agree, I have all the same questions.  I sent him a PM but he didn't respond...but on the other hand I'm sure a lot of people are sending PM's sense he has locked his topic.  He seems to be leading us down the right path but why now?  He should give us the results...which I'm sure are pretty good unless he is a fake.  His tube vids seem to show that he is on the right path!  I plan on reading the entire topic today to catch up and better understand what he has been doing.   
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 13, 2009, 08:29:10 PM
I have not read the whole thread, so i went to page one and read he does not have any electronics experience oops looks like that explains why he hasnt built it i guess.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 13, 2009, 08:57:06 PM
I just finished page 25 and I think that's good for today, but it's very interesting stuff.

P.S. Not enough pictures though!!!
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 17, 2009, 01:14:12 PM
My new LCR meter arrived today, very complex still trying to get to grips with it.

20 turn coils read as follows.

Coil A Tests at 10khz
R = 0.0471 Ohm
L = 16.07uH
Z = 1.0131 Ohm
Q = 21.454

Coil B Tests at 10Khz
R = 0.0472 Ohm
L = 16.19uH
Z = 1.0187 Ohm
Q = 21.550

So if i used his secondary cap value 0.047uF i would have a theoretical operational freq of 183kHz

Peter

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 17, 2009, 04:17:01 PM
My new LCR meter arrived today, very complex still trying to get to grips with it.

20 turn coils read as follows.

Coil A Tests at 10khz
R = 0.0471 Ohm
L = 16.07uH
Z = 1.0131 Ohm
Q = 21.454

Coil B Tests at 10Khz
R = 0.0472 Ohm
L = 16.19uH
Z = 1.0187 Ohm
Q = 21.550

So if i used his secondary cap value 0.047uF i would have a theoretical operational freq of 183kHz

Peter

Peter,

The meter sounds very nice, incredible accuracy on the figures!

I've been playing more with my quarter wave rig. I cant tune it dead on without a variable cap, I'm thinking of getting a normal air cap and keeping around 1kV.

I hacked together a second secondary: a hand bundled loop of 17AWG enameled copper, with a neon over it, I tuned the length so that resonance was pretty close to primary ringing and the neon is super bright, the first decondary does not seem to be reduced in output power at all, in fact the gapfire freq seems to speed up when the second coil is placed on top of the coils, but that might be because I'm pulling the tuning in a favourable direction?

This hacky coil is fairly flat, 8cm diam and less than 1cm high, I can use it like a sniffer coil and can visualise the field coming off the device.

On a side note:
I've been reading the revelations of bruce_tpu and in my excitement I've made two filter networks one for 115kHz and one for 222kHz, with these I can turn very stable IC generated square waves into near perfect sine.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 17, 2009, 04:48:48 PM
Yucca do you have any pictures of your 115 and 222 ic's?  I would love to see them.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 17, 2009, 05:00:11 PM
Yucca do you have any pictures of your 115 and 222 ic's?  I would love to see them.

They are DS1085, I got them as free samples. They were a pain to solder to the DIL converters!

I have written C routines to program any frequency using SPI bus. It was not trivial because different combinations of 2 prescalers and counters can be used to achieve the target frequency, my algorithm finds the best solution. You can search the web for source code to program thes ICs and you won't find it.

A great oscillator, more info here:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/3491

Also included a pic of a square gen unit I made using one, one channel is DC to 1MHz with PWM derived from the micro, the other channel is 10kHz to 20MHz square from a DS1085, My FET drivers limited me to 20MHz.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 17, 2009, 05:26:35 PM
WOW Yucca

You have skills.  I though you were going to show me a 555 rig that was tuned to frequency with a multi turn trimmer POT.  Humm now I wondering if I can get those precise frequencies out of 555/POT
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 17, 2009, 05:46:51 PM
WOW Yucca

You have skills.  I though you were going to show me a 555 rig that was tuned to frequency with a multi turn trimmer POT.  Humm now I wondering if I can get those precise frequencies out of 555/POT

Thanks Sptrue, the chips are good but by no means stable compared to proper DDS chips.

If you want a rock solid REALLY pure sine source then you should get one or two of these nice kits, I'll probably end up buying one of these, just hope I can solder the SOIC chip on though!

http://www.pongrance.com/

Yucca.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 17, 2009, 06:13:50 PM
Is it a kit?  It looks like it comes built!  Anyways that thing looks like it is very acurate.  Bruce's TPU would need 3 of these though...Is this what you will use on your TPU replication?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 17, 2009, 06:49:24 PM
Is it a kit?  It looks like it comes built!  Anyways that thing looks like it is very acurate.  Bruce's TPU would need 3 of these though...Is this what you will use on your TPU replication?


Yes I think you can get the DDS module as a kit, bottom of this page:
http://www.pongrance.com/dds.html

The beauty of these DDS kits is that they are very accurate, but even better they can be phase locked by tying the crystal clocks together.

I think you only need two accurate signal sources; I thought Bruce is saying you need 3 frequencies but only two of these are defined, these are 115kHz and 222kHz, then these two intermodulated frequencies when mixed with a third freq. (any freq depending on collector loop size) they will produce duplicate large constructive interference (kicks?).

p.s.
For a cheap genny, you can get purer freq by using opamps instead of 555 squares with smoothing filters, the cost would be similar and the parts count would be similar, this doc shows you how to build opamp sin oscillators all the way up to quadrature (4 phase):

http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/apps/msp/journal/aug2000/aug_07.pdf

Yucca.

edit:
If I replicate ala bruces instructions then I would initially using what I have, not perfect because the frequency output is not very stable in terms of radio quality.

But I want to get one or two of those DDS kits anyway, boxing them up with OP amped outputs would make a really nice bit of kit for the lab and would probably sell for more on ebay than the build cost.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 17, 2009, 08:15:58 PM
That's some great info Yucca, thank you so much.  Those DDS don't need to be coded do they?  It looks like you adjust them with a pot!

P.S. What would you use for the 3rd signal source?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 17, 2009, 09:49:00 PM
That's some great info Yucca, thank you so much.  Those DDS don't need to be coded do they?  It looks like you adjust them with a pot!

P.S. What would you use for the 3rd signal source?

Hi Sptrue,

The DDS kits come with precoded microcontroller chip as part of the kit, if you blow it he will sell you another chip at a reasonable price. They are adjusted with an optical shaft encoder, a transparent disk with radial black sectors which a LED shines through and 2 photodiodes looks from the other side, as you turn pulses are generated which the micro acts upon, they dont wear out.

For the third signal source in the TPU scheme as far as Bruce sees it, you need to tune a loop antenna (inner collector) to some frequency using a cap and a smaller trimmer cap for tweaking, so you don't need a third source, the third frequency is a passive component (the LC tank of the inner collector unit). When the 3 freqs are working correctly then theoretically you can draw power from the DC biased outer collector and the more power you draw the more reinforcement, perfect tuning would result in runaway regardless of draw and failure of some part. I think adaptive tuning would be the answer for optimal performance, a microcontroller could achieve this by switching an 8bit power2 trimmer capacitance bank over the inner collector.

I so hope  Bruces ideas are the good stuff, even if they aren't I totally respect him for pushing the thought envelope. His excel spreadsheat does look very interesting, at the moment I can't quite comprehend the ramifications, but something in me says it is worth checking out, I have dreamed about it for several nights, my brain trying to undestand.

P.S. to all:
Don't worry, I will still be keeping experimenting with Smiths ideas. It's a whole new realm to me. When working with HV RF you can't just hook your dandy instruments up to it. A neon bulb is a mans best friend in this realm. It's an exotic area and one that is quite new to me, I'm enjoying it, spent over 3 hours last night with coils, grounding combos and neon sniffers, lots to learn here!
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 17, 2009, 10:43:31 PM
Hi Yucca
Wow that is a real pro build.

I am very pleased with the LCR meter it was £143 but a bit cheaper than the other one which was about £700 for a slightly better spec.

Anyone interested here's the meter ebay link, i will never need to worry about accurate LCR values again.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300343133926&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

I have already played a little with a AD9835 and build 2 modules that plug into a cpu board.
Maybe my next controller will need 3 of these if i decide to go down Bruces path.

Here's a video of my last controller which i built to study the phase delaye bifilar coil experiment of Spherics and hence used to study the kick.

http://rapidshare.com/files/281469262/SPH100Controller.asf

I used a 8mhz 18F1320 Pic 100% machine language, and the maths to display the freq using an LTC6903 chip for the signal gen chip was quiet a challenge i ended up writing my own fast maths routines upto 12 decimal points using BCD as the floating point routines available were way too slow.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 17, 2009, 11:05:30 PM
Hi Yucca
Wow that is a real pro build.

I am very pleased with the LCR meter it was £143 but a bit cheaper than the other one which was about £700 for a slightly better spec.

Anyone interested here's the meter ebay link, i will never need to worry about accurate LCR values again.

I have already played a little with a AD9835 and build 2 modules that plug into a cpu board.
Maybe my next controller will need 3 of these if i decide to go down Bruces path.

Here's a video of my last controller which i built to study the phase delaye bifilar coil experiment of Spherics and hence used to study the kick.

http://rapidshare.com/files/281469262/SPH100Controller.asf

I used a 8mhz 18F1320 Pic 100% machine language, and the maths to display the freq using an LTC6903 chip for the signal gen chip was quiet a challenge i ended up writing my own fast maths routines upto 12 decimal points using BCD as the floating point routines available were way too slow.

Peter

Hi Peter, Thanks.

Yes, fast maths in micros without floating pint processer is an art. I've found that using 16 bits and then right shifting 8 bits gives good speed and resolution (8 bits for integer and 8 bits for fraction) its sufficient for most apps.

So do you think that bruces ideas will need 3 accurate freq sources? From what I read it is two generated freqs and 1 passive freq that interacts with them, so only 2 active sig sources needed?

Downloading your vid link now...
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 17, 2009, 11:20:38 PM
Hi Yucca
To be honest i don't really know yet, i am going to let the dust settle and stay with Don's stuff for a while, the thing i don't understand, has he got it working or is this another unproven theory, he talks like he has built it, but has he.

I guess a 3 chan would be future proof  ;)
Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 17, 2009, 11:34:12 PM
i know what you mean about soldering those microscopic chips LOL the LTC6903 legs were barley visible and thinner than a hair LOL.
One trick i learned was you can blob solder all legs together then remove with solder wick to leave a well soldered chip.

At first i did not even know if i could get the res on the photo board and art work, but managed to perfect it ok.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 18, 2009, 12:22:44 AM
i know what you mean about soldering those microscopic chips LOL the LTC6903 legs were barley visible and thinner than a hair LOL.
One trick i learned was you can blob solder all legs together then remove with solder wick to leave a well soldered chip.

At first i did not even know if i could get the res on the photo board and art work, but managed to perfect it ok.

Nice tip Peter, Thanks! so you can allow solder to flood across pins and then use resined wick to clear the spaces. I wouldn't have thought of that but it makes perfect sense.

Keeping them seperate was a challenge to me, I used 12AWG copper (end filed to bevel) wrapped around my iron tip and I had to have a nip or two of whisky to remove all micro tremors lol. I think I'll try the wick method next time.

Yucca.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 18, 2009, 01:31:53 AM
Hi Yucca
To be honest i don't really know yet, i am going to let the dust settle and stay with Don's stuff for a while, the thing i don't understand, has he got it working or is this another unproven theory, he talks like he has built it, but has he.

I guess a 3 chan would be future proof  ;)
Peter

Yep Peter, 3 Channel would be real nice! Perhaps we should set up a builders thread for it, I'm sure there's a few folk who would like such a piece of kit at an affordable price. Every TPUhead would drool over such a box.

I've watched all of those vids with Don. If I had been in the audience when he said "does anyone want to touch the wire to prove me wrong" I would have leapt up and grasped the wire between my tongue wetted thumb and forefinger! A small part of me wonders about the intent of Don, I think he's a great character but sometimes (when watching the vids) I sense a mischeaviousnes in him that makes me wonder about his truthfulness, but then perhaps it's just the excentricity that comes with genius?

The way I'm thinking at the moment is I will build up a repertoire of tools and components because the more the merrier and the more chance of seeing something special. RF systems are a new realm for me and this subject of Dons devices is throwing me in at the deep end which is good.

Yucca.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 18, 2009, 01:49:59 AM
I'm a novice and I'm game!!!
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 18, 2009, 05:02:03 AM
Peter,

Just watched your vid, QUALITY squared! Industrial grade GUI, 2nd menu level to select inc size is very nice, you must have got a buzz from producing it! I especially like your fast scrolling characters in menu transitions.

Like me you must find a certain elegance to a jogwheel controller with integrated push switch, with one human interface point the system is fully controlled, 3bit poetry.

I got 10 mechanical jogwheels with switch from china for peanuts, they're good but after a few hours of operation they start to get very noisy, I've written debouncing and smoothing algorithms into my code to compensate but the noise becomes too much after a while and I have to strip them down, clean with isopropyl and reassemble. I'd love to get some optical encoders but I can't find a decent (cheap) source.

Yucca

P.S.
I'm ispired to make a vid demoing my square gen, maybe I will.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 18, 2009, 09:40:54 AM
Hi Yucca

Thanks for the comments, i do get a buzz thats probably why i enjoy machine language so much, anyone else would call me a glutton for punishment  ;D

My debounce is hardware but do checks in software also, i have used the controller for many hours now and not had any problems so far, but the switches i used came from Digi-key are about £4.00.

When you solder the chip pins more than 1 at a time it may be beneficial to keep the soldering iron temp down as much as possible to avoid damage though.

I am not ready to build a DDS system at the moment because of time restrictions, but may go down that road after Christmas when i get some more time, and have let Bruce travel his path a bit more.

Peter
PS Videos are great, i would definatley recommend anyone that is experimenting to video the experiments, it's a lot easier than paper documentation, and if you do find a strange effect and need to replicate it at a later time you can see exactly the conditions at which it occurred.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 18, 2009, 11:47:51 AM
Nice tip Peter, Thanks! so you can allow solder to flood across pins and then use resined wick to clear the spaces. I wouldn't have thought of that but it makes perfect sense.

Keeping them seperate was a challenge to me, I used 12AWG copper (end filed to bevel) wrapped around my iron tip and I had to have a nip or two of whisky to remove all micro tremors lol. I think I'll try the wick method next time.

Yucca.

LOL Yucca, just holding the chip in place and aligned can be challenging, i wish i had some of that glue they use in smd component placement.
In my case i needed the whiskey after wards, as it sounds easy to use the solder wick but you can suck too much up sometimes and end up with a dry joint that is not easy to see.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 18, 2009, 02:29:41 PM
My question when it comes to Bruces TPU is that he seems to be in contact with SM he mentions that his pic's are SM approved!  Is he really in contact with SM? How? Why? Why now?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 18, 2009, 02:35:11 PM
I wonder which SM, there seems to be at least 3 so far LOL

If the pictures are indeed SM approved i doubt he has it right then, as i am sure that SM is not in a position to indicate how to build a worker otherwise he would have already posted the info himself.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 19, 2009, 06:05:34 PM
@ Peterae/Yucca

How are you're tests coming along?  Any new news to tell us?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 19, 2009, 06:38:02 PM
Hi stprue

I am not much further ahead yet, i have been waiting on bit's and pieces.
but i have now sourced 5 Spark arrestors and they have arrived.
I have all my diodes and a bunch of HV caps including a couple of door knobs.
I have HV wire for my primary but have had trouble working out where to get 2 inch pipe to wind my primary on, i tried the local DIY store but they dont have any here in the UK, although i do have my eye on the Mrs Plastic Vitamin bottle LOL which is about 2 inch diameter.
I hope to build the primary and check the inductance out with my new meter and see what Don was aiming for with the 0.2uF caps and see how this compares with my secondary theoretical freq.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 19, 2009, 09:53:45 PM
Anyone having trouble finding Spark Arrestors they are called Gas discharge tubes or GDT

Farnell do a whole bunch of different voltages

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/results.jsp?N=0&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=gast+tube&Ntx=&suggestions=false&searchTerm=gast+tube&_requestid=1275575&isGoback=false&isRedirect=false

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on September 19, 2009, 11:12:40 PM
Anyone having trouble finding Spark Arrestors they are called Gas discharge tubes or GDT

Farnell do a whole bunch of different voltages

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/results.jsp?N=0&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=gast+tube&Ntx=&suggestions=false&searchTerm=gast+tube&_requestid=1275575&isGoback=false&isRedirect=false

Peter

Great find!

However I don't see any for 4kV. Is there any GDT for such huge breakdown voltage ?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xee2 on September 19, 2009, 11:21:55 PM
Anyone having trouble finding Spark Arrestors they are called Gas discharge tubes or GDT

Farnell do a whole bunch of different voltages

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/results.jsp?N=0&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=gast+tube&Ntx=&suggestions=false&searchTerm=gast+tube&_requestid=1275575&isGoback=false&isRedirect=false

Peter

In the US, Newark Electronics has a good selection also.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 20, 2009, 02:08:34 AM
@ Peterae/Yucca

How are you're tests coming along?  Any new news to tell us?

Still working with the 0.25 wave single secondary rig, I've seen some pronounced behaviour with regard to wiring configs:

When I connect the -ve side of the HV supply to the base of the secondary I see marked efficiency increase.

Further: when I then ground (to house radiator plumbing)  to the positive node of the FWBR another marked increase is seen.

Also I can load the system up with neons on sniffer coils, I tried 5, 1 above, 4 around and they all light brilliantly. As I add coils the existing coils do not diminish in brightness.

When placing a pickup bundle coil at the side it works strongest when vertically level with the primary.

My output gap and cap is the same spec as the input cap and gap so I think fire frequency gives me a fair representation of Pin/Pout ratio. I'm guessing I'm getting around 40% at the moment on output gap. BUT this does not diminish when I load the system further with neoned sniffer coils.

@All, (a little off topic),
I'm still thinking of building a 3 channel rock solid sin source with preamps up to 30MHz, I think the easiest way to go is make modular SMT boards, SMT seems cheap on components as Peter said plus researching I find that a good groundplaned SMT board gives the best HF performance with least stray capacitance.

The board would contain the DDS chip with crystal, elliptic filters and maybe HF opamp stage, a small disconnectable coax lead carries the signal to the users output port or maybe to an amplifier stage if they want to build one.

Boards can be simply stacked to add channels, 1 channel ... all the way up to four.

All channels controlled by a shared microcontroller and screen.

micro gives flexible software so multidimensional scanning could be programmed, the micro could also have an exposed (buffered) ADC pin for feedback, this way the system can be left scanning for days searching for maximal signal into ADC and the possibility of logging data back to the PC via USB for deeper analysis.

I guestimate a minimal bare bones 3chan up to 30MHz system would cost around $300 to make, but the pureness of freq could only be found in lab equipment costing a few grand new.

I just splashed out on a nice chinese shaft encoder which I plan to control the thing with:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320420562507#ht_2561wt_1167
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 20, 2009, 01:10:52 PM
@forest
I would imagine that a number of these could be placed in series to increase the gap voltage, although i have never tried this.

@Yucca
Great work thanks for sharing.

I like the idea of the Sig gen, spec sounds great, Wow that is some control encoder.


Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 20, 2009, 03:06:06 PM
Hi stprue

I am not much further ahead yet, i have been waiting on bit's and pieces.
but i have now sourced 5 Spark arrestors and they have arrived.
I have all my diodes and a bunch of HV caps including a couple of door knobs.
I have HV wire for my primary but have had trouble working out where to get 2 inch pipe to wind my primary on, i tried the local DIY store but they dont have any here in the UK, although i do have my eye on the Mrs Plastic Vitamin bottle LOL which is about 2 inch diameter.
I hope to build the primary and check the inductance out with my new meter and see what Don was aiming for with the 0.2uF caps and see how this compares with my secondary theoretical freq.

Peter

Well that sounds like your making lots of headway!  I found 2inch dia. PVC plumbers piping at a local hardware store.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 20, 2009, 03:20:04 PM
Still working with the 0.25 wave single secondary rig, I've seen some pronounced behaviour with regard to wiring configs:

When I connect the -ve side of the HV supply to the base of the secondary I see marked efficiency increase.

Further: when I then ground (to house radiator plumbing)  to the positive node of the FWBR another marked increase is seen.

Also I can load the system up with neons on sniffer coils, I tried 5, 1 above, 4 around and they all light brilliantly. As I add coils the existing coils do not diminish in brightness.

When placing a pickup bundle coil at the side it works strongest when vertically level with the primary.

My output gap and cap is the same spec as the input cap and gap so I think fire frequency gives me a fair representation of Pin/Pout ratio. I'm guessing I'm getting around 40% at the moment on output gap. BUT this does not diminish when I load the system further with neoned sniffer coils.

@All, (a little off topic),
I'm still thinking of building a 3 channel rock solid sin source with preamps up to 30MHz, I think the easiest way to go is make modular SMT boards, SMT seems cheap on components as Peter said plus researching I find that a good groundplaned SMT board gives the best HF performance with least stray capacitance.

The board would contain the DDS chip with crystal, elliptic filters and maybe HF opamp stage, a small disconnectable coax lead carries the signal to the users output port or maybe to an amplifier stage if they want to build one.

Boards can be simply stacked to add channels, 1 channel ... all the way up to four.

All channels controlled by a shared microcontroller and screen.

micro gives flexible software so multidimensional scanning could be programmed, the micro could also have an exposed (buffered) ADC pin for feedback, this way the system can be left scanning for days searching for maximal signal into ADC and the possibility of logging data back to the PC via USB for deeper analysis.

I guestimate a minimal bare bones 3chan up to 30MHz system would cost around $300 to make, but the pureness of freq could only be found in lab equipment costing a few grand new.

I just splashed out on a nice chinese shaft encoder which I plan to control the thing with:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320420562507#ht_2561wt_1167

That's interesting Yucca, I have seen similar increases in performance when grounding as well with my little hairpin.  Your freq. board idea sounds fantastic, I can't waite to see it.  I will probably build a simpler version using the links you showed me.  I was thinking 3 freq.  but I'll waite to see what Bruce shows us.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 20, 2009, 03:54:37 PM
That's interesting Yucca, I have seen similar increases in performance when grounding as well with my little hairpin.  Your freq. board idea sounds fantastic, I can't waite to see it.  I will probably build a simpler version using the links you showed me.  I was thinking 3 freq.  but I'll waite to see what Bruce shows us.

Hi Sptrue, Yes, I too will wait on bruces revelations before proceeding with 3 chan. But I'll definitely build a 1 chan device to start with, last night I found these cool little breakout boards for AD9835 DDS chip, already soldered with split groundplanes and even an SMA connector built right in. With this I can make a 1chan for less than $70 including backlit screen and micro board. Then can extend by just buying more DDS modules, so a 3 chan for less than $150. The beauty of the module is that the TSSOP chip is ready soldered and also because it is a well designed board it is stable up to 25MHz. If you're interested then hold out on purchasing the other kit because I could provide you with micro code to give you a better spec unit thats easier to assemble (almost just all plugs together) at a cheaper price plus it will have more functionality, (programmable sweeps, TPU power out sampling, and USB comms to the PC). Watch this space lol.

Yucca.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: slapper on September 20, 2009, 05:24:46 PM
@Peterae

A couple of years back I was playing around spark gaps, injecting the spark into tpu control coils.

Although I managed to achieve a lower voltage gap (250 - 300 volts) it was not very stable and
my equipment still didn't like it much.

So I began to evaluate various lower voltage gas discharge tubes and found them to be quite slow
compared to a spark gap.

It looks like you are looking at the same GDT's and I am curious if you are experiencing similar results.

Take care.

nap
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 20, 2009, 05:43:03 PM
Hi Sptrue, Yes, I too will wait on bruces revelations before proceeding with 3 chan. But I'll definitely build a 1 chan device to start with, last night I found these cool little breakout boards for AD9835 DDS chip, already soldered with split groundplanes and even an SMA connector built right in. With this I can make a 1chan for less than $70 including backlit screen and micro board. Then can extend by just buying more DDS modules, so a 3 chan for less than $150. The beauty of the module is that the TSSOP chip is ready soldered and also because it is a well designed board it is stable up to 25MHz. If you're interested then hold out on purchasing the other kit because I could provide you with micro code to give you a better spec unit thats easier to assemble (almost just all plugs together) at a cheaper price plus it will have more functionality, (programmable sweeps, TPU power out sampling, and USB comms to the PC). Watch this space lol.

Yucca.

That sounds great im not sure what micro code is!  Would it be compatible with a mac for loading?  Very exciting.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 21, 2009, 06:11:42 PM
hi Slapper
I'm still in find bits and build mode, hopefully power up mode wont be too long away.

We have pictures of Dons device that use the GDT's so i am only trying to use what he used.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on September 21, 2009, 09:06:35 PM
What is the source of those images ? Are they valuable and real ones ?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 21, 2009, 10:33:10 PM
@forest
Yes they came from 2 videos i bought.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 22, 2009, 01:05:15 AM
That sounds great im not sure what micro code is!  Would it be compatible with a mac for loading?  Very exciting.

Code as in software to upload to the microcontroller chip (using a USB cable) Yes you can upload code using a MAC, I develop on a MAC myself. To compile and upload code is simple, just install the needed application on your mac then import the source code and click one button and its done.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: oscar on September 22, 2009, 08:36:46 AM
Hi Yucca and all,

thanks for keeping at it.

User Michael John Nunnerley on energeticforum posted a setup and experiment which might be connected to how Don Smith's center tapped output transformer works - part 16 in Smith's schematic here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7679.msg192622#msg192622.

Michael John Nunnerley's original posting is here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/68531-post1.html

I will rephrase his posting:

All you need is a transformer with a center tap secondary of 12-0-12v and a primary of 240v or 120v depending on what is available in the country you live.
You will use the transformer in reverse, so that the original primary side will become the output side.
 
You also need a cap of 100nf a reed switch and a magnet. The circuit is shown below.

Make sure that your leads to the reed switch are long enough so as you can put some distance between the magnet and the transformer so that their magnetic fields will not interact.

Connect a meter to your pick up coil L3 (the original primary of the transformer) and set the meter to 200mv AC.

Take the reed switch and pass the magnet rapidly so as to make and break the contact.
See the voltage you are getting on the meter, it will be millivolts, what more did you expect

Now what is happening here?

If you look at the circuit you will see that when the switch is closed only L1 is in the cicuit, but when it is open L1+L2 are in the circuit. When we close the switch we change the inductance and capacitance aka resistance in the circuit. Changing these has caused a current to flow.

Other things are happening in this circuit as well but I will see if anyone can come up with them.

I can create over 700v on my setup!!!!!!!!!! Yes I do have to increase the circuit but there are some great possibilities for using this very simple but very important circuit.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 22, 2009, 04:10:57 PM
Theoretical guys here's a question or 2.

We are aiming for a quarter wave relationship between primary and secondary.

My secondary coil has 20 turns and is 528.5 cm long including tails. using a slightly bigger than 5 inch tube.

My primary using a slightly less than 2 inch tube for 5 turns is 86cm long without tails.

Do i make my primary wire length a quarter of the secondary length including tails, or is it without the wire used for the tails.

I suspect Don trimmed his secondary down to 19 turns from 20 maybe this was because of the reduced diameter of the primary.

Also

Is knowing the wire length enough to work out the natural freq of my coil, just convert wire length to wavelength or freq.

Peter

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xee2 on September 22, 2009, 06:22:06 PM
@ Peterae

We are aiming for a quarter wave relationship between primary and secondary.

 ??? A 1/4 wavelength at 1 MHz is about 250 feet in air. Your coils do not seem long enough to be 1/4 wavelength in the frequency range of a Tesla coil.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 22, 2009, 07:09:19 PM
Hi xee
I am trying to replicate Don's device, without the caps the resonant freq will be much higher than 1mhz.
I thought Don was aiming for primary to be a quarter wavelength of the secondary coil, are you saying this is not so. ???

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 22, 2009, 08:16:42 PM
OK i have found where Don says the primary needs to be an even division of the secondary wire length so it doesn't need to be a quarter, so my question is does this include the tails.
In Don's device i am building the primary has quiet long tails.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on September 22, 2009, 08:21:52 PM
Hmm..I thought that Don explains it well in videos. Instead I saw video in which he talks about making secondary 4 times longer then primary and that will be almost enough to catch resonance. Strange...
I have a strange feelings that we are mislead here.
If there is any simple way to catch resonant frequency by comparing primary and secondary length I can imagine only one, but completely different to what was told. I will make secondary 4 times shorter then primary (or in other words: primary 4 times longer then secondary) then match frequency of primary by selecting wavelength the same as primary length (full stationary wavelength on primary). That would accomplish resonance on primary very simple and secondary already would be 1/4 wavelength long.
The only task remain is to choose capacitor on secondary.

The only problem is that the described engineering task is in reverse to what Don Smith told us.
OR MAYBE we should choose other way and match wire length of PRIMARY to 1/4 wavelength and secondary to FULL wavelength ???
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on September 22, 2009, 08:29:00 PM
Does somebody has schematics of neon tube transformer Smith is using and for dimmer for neon tube transformer ? How does it change frequency of input current to neon sign transformer ?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 22, 2009, 08:38:29 PM
OK i'm getting confused now, isn't a Tesla coil secondary a lot longer than the primary.

Definatley in Don's case the primary is a lot shorter than the secondary as is a tesla coil.

By dimming the input supply to the Neon transformer you alter the output voltage of the Neon transformer and therefore how fast the gap fires.

What i am trying to work out is, are the tails included in the division ratio of primary to secondary, so are the tails an active part, bearing in mind the primary resonant cap is connected to the end of the tails.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on September 22, 2009, 09:01:46 PM
Ok, I'm, also confused. I saw video in which Don says about L1 of internal PVC tube of this device should be exactly 1/4 of wire length used for L2 coil or external coil and that would simplify computation of resonant frequency because secondary would be almost tuned in such case.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 22, 2009, 09:40:29 PM
forest yer it's not so easy from what Don says and what is seen,
A few examples
That picture of the 0.047uf 6kv secondary cap is taken from a still frame as the camera zooms into it, at the time the camera zooms in he says the cap is 0.5uf LOL

another

He says the big paper/oil caps are wired in series when it is clear they are in parallel , he says they are 8uF 2kv, i bet they are 8kv 2uF LOL

One thing for sure i have counted the turns that primary coil is 5 turns on a 2 inch pipe and is therefore a lot smaller than the 19-20 turns 3 inch secondary so i guess it is indeed a quarter length.

But is it a quarter length including the tails or just the 5 turns?
I think it has to be including the tails, but does this make sense from a theoretical sense.
Peter

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 22, 2009, 10:03:15 PM
OK i have found where Don says the primary needs to be an even division of the secondary wire length so it doesn't need to be a quarter, so my question is does this include the tails.
In Don's device i am building the primary has quiet long tails.

Peter

I have found through experiment that the wire length does seem to have an observeable effect, I didn't believe this at forst but it does seem so.

The sniffer coils I have ben placing around my rig seem best when the wire length is the same as the secondary wire length. I trim the sniffers with a small variable cap (like found in transistor radios). When the wire length is the same I find the neon is the brightest when I tune the cap for matched resonance. The cap is tuned very low only slightly over the C of the excited neon. Why wire length would be important I do not understand because you can pull any length wire L into resonance by tuning C, but it does seem to give stronger coupling when wire length is mathced, curious?

another off topic photo below, the proto gui for "TriForce" my planned 3 chan 0...60MHz pure sin sig gen. I will probably start another thread on this system I'm building to stop this thread being derailed (sorry for derailment so far)

edit for peter:
The tail length might be important, my sniffers have no tail just a neon and variable C directly on the circumference.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xee2 on September 22, 2009, 10:14:33 PM
@ Peterae

A few things you may already know but just in case.

1. Any short duration pulse will generate harmonics which depend on the pulse shape (Fourier transform provides solution if you know how to use that). A early technique of generating high frequencies was to use a pulse to generate harmonics and then capture the energy in one of the harmonics with a resonant circuit. He may have been doing something like that.

2. Tesla coil secondary is an LC resonant circuit, not a 1/4 resonant circuit. They work different.

3. At RF frequencies the leads are part of the circuit unless they are much less than a wavelength.








Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 22, 2009, 10:18:33 PM
Hi Yucca

Do i include the tails length as well as the 5 turns wire length to equal 1/4 of my secondary wire length.

nice GUI is that a dot matrix display, i ask because how did you get the menu at the bottom, what is the processor.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 22, 2009, 11:03:10 PM
Thanks xee

Number 3 is what i am after, so i take that as a no the tails are not included in the quarter length of wire, this is telling me i need less turns on my secondary, so i now wonder how Don managed this relationship, i could do it if it included the tails.

Peter



Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 22, 2009, 11:05:38 PM
Hi Yucca

Do i include the tails length as well as the 5 turns wire length to equal 1/4 of my secondary wire length.

I don't know, haven't tried that in experiment yet. But my main secondary has 9inch leads powering it and my sniffers are best when the same length as only the coiled wire.

nice GUI is that a dot matrix display, i ask because how did you get the menu at the bottom, what is the processor.
Hi Peter,

It's a 128x128 16bit colour LCD, a nokia part from phones a few years back. I programmed the main numbers to look like 7seg oldstyle displays, so you can see the off segments still as very light grey.

The green bars can be moved to any digit in any channel (or to menu), the user then presses select and that number can be adjusted, its adjusted by its multiplier so if you keep winding then the higher decade digits to the left will change on 10 rollover.

I'm trying to make best use of display area for the main freq readout, when you enter the menus then the font is small (like menu is written with).

Yucca.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 22, 2009, 11:27:52 PM
Yucca
Nice work, it was the grey segments that threw me, so it must have a driver chip embeded i guess for easy interface.

I wanted to make the primary coil tomorrow, but now i need to think some more, as the primary is 5 turns and the secondary 19- 20 and the primary is smaller diameter it is impossible for me to make it a quarter of the wire length by quiet a bit the only thing i can think of is to chop down the secondary length to match 4 x the primary, i will crunch the numbers tomorrow and see how much i need to lose.
I think xee is right about the tails not being an active part because in the pictures one of the tails is longer than the other with regard to where they goto on the connector block.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 22, 2009, 11:36:35 PM
Ah maybe if i make the primary and fire up the spark gap with no caps and use a neon to find the node on the secondary that will tell me where the point is, i think Don said that somewhere as well, do you think that is possible.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 22, 2009, 11:38:51 PM
Yucca
Nice work, it was the grey segments that threw me, so it must have a driver chip embeded i guess for easy interface.

I wanted to make the primary coil tomorrow, but now i need to think some more, as the primary is 5 turns and the secondary 19- 20 and the primary is smaller diameter it is impossible for me to make it a quarter of the wire length by quiet a bit the only thing i can think of is to chop down the secondary length to match 4 x the primary, i will crunch the numbers tomorrow and see how much i need to lose.
I think xee is right about the tails not being an active part because in the pictures one of the tails is longer than the other with regard to where they goto on the connector block.

Yes it has its own video buffer RAM and an SPI interface to adjust said RAM, you can plot pixles or horizontal lines with one instruction packet. I coded an 8x8 font and also a larger 7seg lcd type font taking advantage of horizontal spans to maximise speed.

I think also xee is correct, only active inductive wire length may be important. If your supply lines are straight then L element wil be low and C will depend on interwire proximity.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xee2 on September 22, 2009, 11:50:38 PM
@ Peterae
Number 3 is what i am after, so i take that as a no the tails are not included in the quarter length of wire,

I am not sure what you mean by "tails". If "tails" are the leads going to the coil then it depends on how long they are. They always effect the circuit performance, but if they are less than 1/10 wavelength they can usually be ignored. I do not know what you are trying to do so I am probably not very helpful.



Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 22, 2009, 11:59:57 PM
@Yucca Veerrrry nice sig gen.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 23, 2009, 04:04:50 PM
Nice display there Yucca for what i can imagine cost zero as it came from an old phone,a very pleasing price if i may say so  ;D

Well i built the primary, wire length of the 5 turn coil was 85cm without tails.
Inductance = 2.41uH
Parallel Resistance = 0.5034 Ohms
Series Resistance = 0.0527 Ohms
Impedance = 0.138 Ohm
Q = 3.39
Tested @ 10khz

So with the 200nF cap he has used i would have a theoretical primary resonance of 229.243 khZ

My Secondary is going to need cutting down
but here's it's current measurements

Inductance = 16.03uH
Parallel Resistance = 21.8 Ohms
Series Resistance = 0.0473 Ohms
Impedance = 1.0062
Q = 21.36

Tested at 10khZ

So with the 47nF Don used would give me a resonant freq of 183.359khZ
which isnt far from my primary considering my secondary is at least 1turn to long in length.

Peter


Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 23, 2009, 05:36:02 PM
xee
Yer i refer to the coil leads as tails.
Thanks for the info it's handy to know this

Yucca
You mentioned before that Don seems a little mischievous in his personality having watched the videos again, i agree 100%, you get the feeling he is playing with the people asking questions, gives me the impression he likes people to at least work somethings out for themselves, i wonder if it is this that leads to the conflicting information, after all he earned his glory and put the time in on the bench, he's obviously a very clever man.

I love the way he talks about how he lost his job as a Geologist, when he was earning so much more than some of his bosses LOL


Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 23, 2009, 05:55:35 PM
Great work Peterae looks just like Don's photo!
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 23, 2009, 07:03:50 PM
xee
Yer i refer to the coil leads as tails.
Thanks for the info it's handy to know this

Yucca
You mentioned before that Don seems a little mischievous in his personality having watched the videos again, i agree 100%, you get the feeling he is playing with the people asking questions, gives me the impression he likes people to at least work somethings out for themselves, i wonder if it is this that leads to the conflicting information, after all he earned his glory and put the time in on the bench, he's obviously a very clever man.

I love the way he talks about how he lost his job as a Geologist, when he was earning so much more than some of his bosses LOL


Peter

hi Peter, your primary and secondary are already pretty close, good job to land in the right area on the first fireup! For exact tuning I guess HV variable cap is needed in parallel to primary cap. Otherwise a slideable clip on your secondary to make fractional turns changes maybe, my wire is enamelled so that is difficult for me. I can't wait for you to fire it up! I've found tubes from dead CFL lightbulbs make great loads over the output cap then a rough eyeballing can guesstimate power.

Yes Don is obviously a clever man, no doubt about that! As you say he used to be a geo guy for petro industry. A tiny slither of me wonders if he took on the job of FE misinformation agent in his latter years lol, because its quite a volt face move from petro to FE, but that's just me keeping an open mind to all possibilities. At the moment odds wise, I'm leaning more toward his devices being true.

Yucca.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 23, 2009, 07:36:21 PM
@Sptrue and All:

I've started another thread for the 3 chan SIN generator to stop dilluting this threads info:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8087

Yucca.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 23, 2009, 08:01:06 PM
Thanks for the comments guys.

I seem to be in spend mode at the moment LOL

A bit of advice i am planning on getting a 10hz to 2.4GHz freq counter, i would imagine this will be very handy for test on the coil setup.
It comes with a UHF aerial but surely this wont pickup the lower frequencys for measurement, any advice is welcome

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/YAEGE-FC-1-Portable-Frequency-Counter-10Hz-2-6GHz-VX-8R_W0QQitemZ350192136138QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item518913efca&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177

Also there is another meter that does 1mhz to 2.4ghz and has a power meter with watts measurement, this could be handy as well but i think i will need lower than 1mhz for Dons setup which is a real shame.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Portable-Frequency-Counter-Power-Meter-GY561-for-VX-8R_W0QQitemZ180317761081QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM?hash=item29fbc6ae39&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Cheers,
Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 23, 2009, 08:01:38 PM
Yucca

I just read through it.  As usual that is some great work Yucca.  I'm not sure if my skill level or lack there of will be able to replicate, but I will read, ask questions and hopefully learn something.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on September 23, 2009, 08:26:01 PM
Hmm... what if Don's secondary coil is made of stranded wire ? Or even primary too... Crazy idea but who knows ?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 23, 2009, 08:31:28 PM
funny you say that forest, xeno said somewhere he suspected the silver secondary was a type of silver litz, i forget the words he used to explain it, but he did say he had some.

My primary is stranded, any ideas what difference it would make.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 23, 2009, 08:35:58 PM
Hang on i just looked at a close up of the coil in the video and it looks pretty solid core to me so maybe not.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 23, 2009, 08:44:15 PM
Yucca

I just read through it.  As usual that is some great work Yucca.  I'm not sure if my skill level or lack there of will be able to replicate, but I will read, ask questions and hopefully learn something.

Sprtue,

Cheers, I'm pleased you will follow the build.

If you want to replicate then it really is just plug and play, no hardware fab needed except to link the modules together. I will be building on a large vero board using vero strips for the digital and power busses and I will release the source code freely for non profit use. You could perhaps start with single channel first it would give you a nice sin unit by spending $150 over a few months. The piece of kit you will end up with you could sell on ebay for a profit. To buy such a spec sig source from agilent or tektronix etc. would cost megabucks!

p.s. we should talk about this further on the genny thread.

Yucca.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 23, 2009, 09:12:58 PM
A bit of advice i am planning on getting a 10hz to 2.4GHz freq counter, i would imagine this will be very handy for test on the coil setup.
It comes with a UHF aerial but surely this wont pickup the lower frequencys for measurement, any advice is welcome

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/YAEGE-FC-1-Portable-Frequency-Counter-10Hz-2-6GHz-VX-8R_W0QQitemZ350192136138QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item518913efca&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177

Nice bit of kit for the price, Dont take her too close to your rig when its firing. I would try the small rubber duck to start with, in powerful fields it will still pickup LF oscillations and you will have a powerful field. Only if it doesnt work when you get within 1 meter then maybe you could make an external coil on a flylead with a little more length to it.

Some of the RF signals I've seen coming off my quarter wave rig are dual freq and I can see on the scope when I put the probe on the bench about 1 meter away, scope set in mV range. The probe tip is tiny and like a multi GHz antenna so that duck should be swinging nicely even in the kHz when in the proximity of the rig.

I don't know what freq component your meter would display, probably the highest amplitude signal in a dual freq signal. Let us know the performance of it when you get it.

Yucca.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 23, 2009, 09:29:23 PM

thanks for the advice Yucca.

It will be very handy for the GDO as well  ;)

Here goes another 15 day wait LOL
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 23, 2009, 09:49:21 PM
thanks for the advice Yucca.

It will be very handy for the GDO as well  ;)

Here goes another 15 day wait LOL

Peter, Yes of course, I hadn't thought of that, your GDO coupled with an accurate freq measurement will give you spot on measurement of any systems frequency response.

It's nice to see whats going on. Thats one thing that frustrates me a little about Tcoil like research, you cant hook your scope up to an active device. Its like you have to keep your eyes shut. A plasma bulb is probably the only instrument to safely hook up. Guess that's why its a bit of a black art, couple with the system and you zap your equipment.

Yucca.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 24, 2009, 11:01:51 PM
Doh i missed Chapter 5 page 19-20

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter5.pdf

Interestingly it shows L2 as a single coil not 2 separate 20 turn coils.

I do wonder how exact people have tried replicating this build.

Another interesting thing to try would be as follows

I have a microwave transformer tucked under my bench for a rainy day, i am now wondering if i should use 2kv spark gaps to drive the microwave transformer and adjust the feed to L1 until i get 50hz firing on the microwave spark gap.
And load the 240vac primary of the microwave transformer with a mains bulb
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 25, 2009, 12:25:10 AM
I have a microwave transformer tucked under my bench for a rainy day, i am now wondering if i should use 2kv spark gaps to drive the microwave transformer and adjust the feed to L1 until i get 50hz firing on the microwave spark gap.
And load the 240vac primary of the microwave transformer with a mains bulb

Peter, When you try this then maybe also try and match the L1C1 resonance freq to the natural freq of the trafo L2 and then take power off L2 through FWBR.

I've tried just such an experiment with my insectocuter trafo but the potted in caps over L2 are spoiling things and dragging my l2 freq way down.

Have you got a variable cap yet. I'm still on the lookout and want to buy at least a decent air varicap next month capable of going to 2kV. I've also thought of making a varicap using alufoil tape and two CD covers that I can slide over each other, probably it would only be tiny C max though?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xee2 on September 25, 2009, 12:55:19 AM
@ ALL,

Can anyone provide a current source for high voltage diodes (10KV to 40KV) in small quantities? Preferably in USA.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 25, 2009, 01:02:15 AM
xee

Page 3 or 4 of this thread has a great link posted by Yucca.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xee2 on September 25, 2009, 01:38:24 AM
@ stprue

xee

Page 3 or 4 of this thread has a great link posted by Yucca.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 25, 2009, 10:01:12 AM
xee
you going to join the builders club.


Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 25, 2009, 03:10:40 PM
Peter, When you try this then maybe also try and match the L1C1 resonance freq to the natural freq of the trafo L2 and then take power off L2 through FWBR.

I've tried just such an experiment with my insectocuter trafo but the potted in caps over L2 are spoiling things and dragging my l2 freq way down.

Have you got a variable cap yet. I'm still on the lookout and want to buy at least a decent air varicap next month capable of going to 2kV. I've also thought of making a varicap using alufoil tape and two CD covers that I can slide over each other, probably it would only be tiny C max though?

Hi Yucca
Thanks for the advice, although the microwave transformer will only be about 50hz so i am not sure if i can get the primary down to that, would be interesting to try though.

The Vacuum caps do seem to get snapped up when they are a good price, i have been outbid on a few now, but still looking in from time to time to get 1.

My first task i feel is to trim my secondary to match a quarter of the primary, i guess this is right as the secondary from what Don says is 4 times the length, once i have this i can put my 0.2 on the primary and 0.047 on the secondary and hopefully trim using a variable cap to account for the inaccuracies of the main caps, now if what Don says is true i am willing to bet the resonant freq with the caps should be an even division of the natural frequency, once i have met these conditions, i will feel i would be in a position to say i have a successful replication.

First i should try the neon screwdriver on the secondary while sparking the primary and look for the node and then trim to that point, maybe this is easiest if it works, it's certainly the way Don said to do it.Has anyone tried this method yet.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on September 25, 2009, 05:26:57 PM
Hi Yucca
Thanks for the advice, although the microwave transformer will only be about 50hz so i am not sure if i can get the primary down to that, would be interesting to try though.

The Vacuum caps do seem to get snapped up when they are a good price, i have been outbid on a few now, but still looking in from time to time to get 1.

My first task i feel is to trim my secondary to match a quarter of the primary, i guess this is right as the secondary from what Don says is 4 times the length, once i have this i can put my 0.2 on the primary and 0.047 on the secondary and hopefully trim using a variable cap to account for the inaccuracies of the main caps, now if what Don says is true i am willing to bet the resonant freq with the caps should be an even division of the natural frequency, once i have met these conditions, i will feel i would be in a position to say i have a successful replication.

First i should try the neon screwdriver on the secondary while sparking the primary and look for the node and then trim to that point, maybe this is easiest if it works, it's certainly the way Don said to do it.Has anyone tried this method yet.

Peter

Peter, I'm watching your progress with great interest, I think you're going to get great efficiency out of the thing!

I haven't tried trimming anything yet other than sniffer coil (taped wire bundles) lengths and turns (hence circumference). I need varicaps or at least a better selection of static caps. Also my rig is only quarter wave, just like a regular T coil, I will need to wind another secondary. At the moment tuning between L1 and L2 is by no means perfect and I think because these aircoils are quite high Q you need to tune fairly accurately. I might build another primary out of bare copper and then make a sliding tap on that, at least I could get good tuning without buying varicap then. But of course the magic wire length ratios would be screwed up.

Yucca.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xee2 on September 25, 2009, 06:34:15 PM
@ Peterae

you going to join the builders club.

Not for this project. I do not understand what you are trying to do. I am hoping it will become clear in time. Yucca posted a diagram of coupled loops. But I do not see what that is suppose to accomplish. I have looked at a few Don Smith videos and I find it difficult for me to believe some of the things he says. 

I now have a nice high voltage power supply, thanks in part to Yucca, and there are some other experiments I would like to try. But I will be following your build to see what I can learn.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on September 25, 2009, 06:52:01 PM
@xee

Read the Free Energy Secrets of Cold Electricity (Free Ebook)
Ed  Gray inventions

That is why I'm interested in some of the stuff being discussed here.  Look at the Tesla Hair Pin experiments posted by MK1 (page 928...I think on the JT Topic) and also read about spark gap transmitters.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on September 25, 2009, 06:56:28 PM
Hi xee
We are all learning this is the good thing about publishing the development and build from scratch.
There has been very little of this on OU, but is probably the best way for people to learn and it also aids as a record of information of what has been tried, shame more people dont do it really.

Imagine what we would have learned if Don himself used OU years ago when he started out or even SM and documented the TPU discovery and development, although i guess OU wasn't around then but in the future this could well happen if everyone documented on here their builds.

Good luck with your build, i agree there's a lot of conflicting info from Don, and look at this as build and experimentation experience.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xee2 on October 28, 2009, 11:55:50 PM
@ Peterae

Can you summarize the results of your experiment. After spending all of that time and money, did you find out anything?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: giantkiller on November 01, 2009, 05:33:58 PM
I did a very summary thread to collect all the designs for a pattern of the simple process.
I have not made anything up and the diagrams show what has been stated by Bolt in this thread previously.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8227.msg206580#msg206580

Some here have stated a dimmer on the table unit. I stated a fan. I couldn't get a clearer picture.

Quote
The LC tank circuit holds it own resonance from the spark gap wide spectrum discharge. Shove anything into it and it will grab what is natural to it. The outside frequencies are passed back to the spark gap. Under the tank at the spark gap you would see frequencies missing. After the tank you would see only the tuned LC frequency which would present itself as a stable magnetic field for canceling or disconnecting. The circuit uses the wide spectrum to break the flux or magnetic field for reconnection.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on November 01, 2009, 06:05:52 PM
GK

are you going to be working on one of these!!!
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on November 03, 2009, 05:51:10 PM
Hi xee2

No i am sorry so far i haven't had a chance to even power my setup, some things came up a while ago which caused me shut down my operation temporarily, but soon i will be in a position to start up again.

This is the first opertunity i have had to even log on for quiet some time and try to catch up with what has been happening.
 

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on November 03, 2009, 10:58:08 PM
.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on November 04, 2009, 09:16:56 AM
.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on November 05, 2009, 09:55:48 PM
My little theory,correct me if I'm totally wrong because I'm not EE.
In Tesla coil voltage and current are at 90 degrees to each other, besides current is tiny.However because of potential is high we can take free "dead" electrons from air or ground or water ,whatever.
Still current is in incorect angle to voltage. The magic trick is to have phase change of voltage or to produce an "echo" voltage by using of resonant cicuit on secondary with resonant frequency shifted a bit from resonant frequency of primary.
After looking at Don device  I believe that his secondary coil is divided into phase changing circuit (with capacitor) and antenna catching air electrons. Diode now causes unidirectional flow of them and voltage produced on second diode is "fooling" capacitor which converts them (phase changed voltage and ambient electrons)
into real power accumulated in.

He he , nice theory but taken absoluely from the Moon  ;D
Just to "rush" this dead thread
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Thaelin on November 06, 2009, 08:51:33 PM
   Have you considered what might be echoing back from the dead end of the coil?
I have had to test coax cables and when the connectors are put on wrong, the signal
would bounce back with a vengeful attitude. Is he mixing this bounce in some way. Just
my thoughts.

thay
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on November 08, 2009, 10:54:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UojMvCN3gck

Are these new or old deleted videos? Thanks.

Minde
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: bourne on November 08, 2009, 11:47:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UojMvCN3gck

Are these new or old deleted videos? Thanks.

Minde

After watching the first 2 in the series something rang a bell...it took some time to put my finger on it but I think the voice of the interviewer is the same as in the 3 WITTS videos

What do you think??

And watching this again makes a lot more sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkBNzXPy_p4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkBNzXPy_p4)

In this video he mentions 5 tuned inductors in the main generator, (2 main coils 1 interrupter and 2 pick up coils maybe!)

He also says that the energy is all around... i.e. ambient

Do you think the Witts dudes picked up Dons pdf (as is now) back in the 80's and have been working on things ever since??

Just a thought :)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: bw on November 20, 2009, 03:28:48 PM
the five part video noted above is from a 1998 workshop, I bought the dvd titled "The Don Smith Energy Device"  about a year ago and this is it.  I know Don is for real, smart too.  When he realized the battle of getting u.s. patents he went to the largest companys in the world and allowed them to incorporate his designs into their products in exchange for a piece of the company and a seat on their boards.  I am still trying to get my nst copy of his unit to make real power.   The power is there for sure but how to catch it as it returns to ambient is my question.  I get tiny sparks on secondary coil so I know power is available.  I'm going to next try a dimmer switch like Don uses.  Perhaps this will allow me to tune the output of the nst to match coil resonance.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xee2 on November 21, 2009, 03:23:26 AM
@ bw

What company was he on the board of directors of?

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: bw on November 21, 2009, 06:38:00 AM
this link explains some of Don's background. http://www.nuenergy.org/iw/2005/smith2005.htm
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xee2 on November 21, 2009, 07:12:35 AM
@ bw

Thank you. Unfortunately, that does not provide the names of the companies so there is no way to verify the truth of these claims.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: bw on November 21, 2009, 06:29:02 PM
fine, just move on, not worth your time
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Paul-R on November 25, 2009, 04:42:14 PM

News on air coils from a Radiant Energy Yahoo group:

"I just spoke to a representative at Barker & Williamson and he said he's been considering making another run of 3064 coils. If you're interested, go to their site and send either an email or place your order. He plans to make another run (he didn't stipulate how many in a run) sometime in December... "

http://www.bwantennas.com/coils/mini.htm
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on November 27, 2009, 05:57:30 PM
Ok guys not much been happening around here i see  :'(

I now have a new work bench and am slowly setting up to start some tests.

Today i have been number crunching my coils parameters to try and get a ball park for resonance points.

Unfortunately the GDO i bought has ceased working correctly, i had always suspected it wasn't right but the Osc now doesn't work above 100mhz and is way out of calibration, and after checking out the circuit, i suspect it's the osc transistor which is no longer available  >:( and there's no adjustments for calibration should i find a close equivalent, so i will need to look into this some more yet to find a good replacement transistor.

So i cannot use the GDO for getting the res freq of my primary and secondary, so i have moved onto using the same value caps Don used to get an idea how close my coils tuning will be.

First my primary Inductance is 2.20uH 5 turns and Don uses a 0.20uF cap to tune this, this calculates out at a Resonant Frequency of 239.935kHz

The nearest cap i had was 0.1 so i paralleled 2 up and measured them with my cap meter which gave a reading of 184.66nF.
I then hooked up my sig gen and scope and looked for the resonant point which turned out to be 252.53kHz
When i put my cap and inductance value into the calculator it gave a theoretical res freq of 249.702KHz which is pretty dam close to what i am getting, so i now know the tuned primary freq.

My next job was to compare my secondary inductance and use the 47nF cap value Don used to see if my secondary Res Freq would be close.
It wasn't DOH.
My secondary inductance is 16.06uH for the 20 turns but with a 47nF cap to get a theoretical res freq of 249.702kHz i would need an inductance value around 9.3uH ish which would equate to my secondary having 13 turns not 20, but Don didnt have 13 turns he had (I counted 19) so something is wrong and doesnt add up at this point in time.

I will also say that my primary coil uses 86cm length of wire and my secondary currently uses 513.5cm, now if it's true that don used 4 time his primary length for his secondary then my secondary should be 344cm.

Interestingly each turn of my secondary coil uses 25.675cm of wire now if i multiply this by 13 i get 333.775cm which is fairly close to 4 times my primary length.

So either my coil dimensions are totally wrong or Don didnt tune his secondary to his primary and didn't use 4 times the wire length for his secondary.

I need to think on this some more to work out why.
HELP!!!!!

 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on November 27, 2009, 09:10:32 PM
It's obvious to me that we can't compute Don device parameters from just video as a source.
Do you have exactly the same NST ?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on November 27, 2009, 10:03:44 PM
Hi Forest
I am still stuck on getting the coil right before i hook the psu up.

I have reviewed the video tonight and come to the conclusion my primary is way too small, his only just fits inside his secondary coil

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on November 27, 2009, 10:36:07 PM
Hi Forest
I am still stuck on getting the coil right before i hook the psu up.

I have reviewed the video tonight and come to the conclusion my primary is way too small, his only just fits inside his secondary coil

Peter

Ok,then made exactly the same primary with the same components , connect NST  and all parts of primary except capacitors. Place a small pins in the place of capacitors and then measure inductance of your primary. you got that point ?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on November 27, 2009, 11:25:27 PM
@Peterae

Static system measured numbers will be quite a bit different from actual working system at certain frequency. Primary small resistance will push resonant frequency one way secondary higher resistance will affect measured frequency even more. To do math on system @ its working frequency is very complicated. Don Smith system does not look tuned exectly at all  but numbers like you said come pretty close. Now coil lenghts do not match to quarter wave in any way so I believe it goes by even wire division tuning wich I have never heard before.
   So. His system looks to be out of precise tune thats for sure because precision tuning can only be achieved using variable components unless someone could do exect math on it wich is not practical for non geniuses :) To me it looks like more or less tuned energy pump.

  I would say just finish it up as close as he had and test it out.  Center tap might do its thing regardless of presice tuning...

Regards Minde





Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on November 27, 2009, 11:36:42 PM
Hi Minde

Thanks for your input.
Yes i agree i am going to rebuild my primary tommorow to get it as big a diameter as i can so it still fits inside the secondary.

Don did tune his secondary coil precisely by testing for nodes with a neon which i will also try once i feel i have got as close to his coil setup as possible, again you are probably right that it is not so important i get an exact match to his coils but for replication purposes i might as well try as best i can.

We will see how i go tommorow.

Yes the quarter wire length for primary seems to be the important bit not quarter wavelength.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on November 28, 2009, 10:46:32 PM
Today i remade my Primary coil, i increased the diameter to just fit inside my secondary coil and i managed to use a full quarter wire length of the secondary in just over 5.5 turns so i should now have a pretty close match with regard to the wire length relationships, i will try resonating it tomorrow with caps.

Now in one of Don's videos he states that some Neon Transformers printed ratings show OU

Poynt99 stated to me this may not be the case, so i looked into this a little below are the specs of a Ventex NPS-12D10

You will notice at the bottom of the specs it has ** and says 'Equivalent brightness of electromagnetic transformer' so the print on the label is only an equivalent rating compared to a conventional transformer as opposed to this switched mode version which has an oscillating output of 20kHz, and therefore is not a true representation of power output from the module.

Another thing that occurred to me is that in the device i am trying to replicate don uses a dimmer to vary the 120VAC feeding the neon transformer, now i am not so sure this would work well with a switched mode psu based neon supply, it certainly wouldn't give a linear variation of the HV output and would probably cutout totally once a certain voltage is reached, in fact if the switched psu did it's job i would have thought it would either maintain regulation or cutout totally.

I am now wondering did he even power this up at some point OUCH.

Peter


Specifications     
Input Voltage:    12 VDC (±10%)
Input Current:    1000 mA (Max)
Driving Distance*:    
Neon:    1-10 ft, (0-3 m)
Mercury:    1-12 ft, (0-3.7 m)
Output Voltage:    3000V
Output Current**:    15 mA
Frequency:    20 kHz ( ± )
Operating Temp:    0° to 104°F
(-18° to 40°C)
Dimensions    
Length:    3.0 in. (76.20 mm)
Width:    1.75 in. (44.45 mm)
Height:    1.25 in. (31.75 mm)
Mounting:    2.6 in. (66.04 mm)
Weight:    6.0 oz. (158.0 gr)
12 VDC Primary Leads:    8 in. (45.72 cm) wo/jack
Secondary GTO Leads:    18 in. (45.7 cm)

* Based on standard 12mm tube. Deduct one foot from driving footages for each pair of electrodes.

** Equivalent brightness of electromagnetic transformer



Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on November 28, 2009, 11:01:20 PM
An addition to the above post, i will also say that i think the Neon psu he used also had a dimmer built in and no doubt this would have worked well, but then why add another on the 120VAC inverter output.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on November 29, 2009, 11:40:51 AM
NST must work like Tesla coil with center tap secondary. Dimmer is probably because his capacitors looks like joined in parallel which means they are 4000VDC not 9kV
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on November 29, 2009, 11:56:26 AM
The 2 capacitors are in parallel to give the required 200nF, but the spark gap is in series with the cap, i would imagine the dimmer is there to alter the firing rate of the spark gap.

We have quiet a lot going on in this build, we have the tuned primary frequency, the untuned secondary frequency, we have the importance of the wire lengths for primary to secondary 1/4 relationship, and we also have the speed at which the gap fires the energy into the resonant system, each one seems to be set for a specific reason which hopefully we can work out at some point.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: turbo on November 29, 2009, 12:15:19 PM
Hi Minde

Thanks for your input.
Yes i agree i am going to rebuild my primary tommorow to get it as big a diameter as i can so it still fits inside the secondary.

Don did tune his secondary coil precisely by testing for nodes with a neon which i will also try once i feel i have got as close to his coil setup as possible, again you are probably right that it is not so important i get an exact match to his coils but for replication purposes i might as well try as best i can.

We will see how i go tommorow.

Yes the quarter wire length for primary seems to be the important bit not quarter wavelength.

Peter

Hi Peter  :)

I heard from a friend you were about ready to fire it up.
Don does mention in the video the secondary needs to be a division or multiple of the primary.
This is also seen in Tesla's work and i had the same question as you,does he mean wavelength or wire length.
Although Tesla also used alot of mass matching in his coils too.

Hope you get it to work soon :)

Marco.

PS. Did you find that chart for finding the frequency correcting resistance?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on November 29, 2009, 12:55:37 PM
Hi marco
I have ordered the book Don references to with the charts but it has not arrived yet.

I am slowly getting to the point where i can progress, my main concern so far has been getting my coils to the right dimensions.

I have just powered up using a sig gen and a 200nF cap across my primary, i wanted to see what i would get on an untuned secondary coil.

I have attached 2 FFT shots

I am not yet ready to power this with an NST as it hasn't arrived yet but soon.

Peter

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on November 29, 2009, 01:07:32 PM
I feel that the mystery is hidden in primary circuit. It has to produce "radiant energy" in circumference of secondary coils. Neons are required then to tune it.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on November 29, 2009, 01:12:19 PM
indeed forest

I have been trying to work out the best way to make my primary HV cap up 200nF 4kv, and just stumbled on 2 Dubilier paper/oil caps which are 0.1uf and 4kv, i have never seen anyone use paper/oil caps for tuning coils before (that maybe my inexperience) anyone know if they would work ok

Cheers,
Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on November 29, 2009, 01:20:51 PM
Some interesting thoughts to consider you find there :
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5009-discussion-re-physics-behind-negative-energy-systems-radiant-spikes.html

First we must learn how to produce radiant longitudinal waves then what Don is saying maybe the response of Earth ambient background to radiant.
I believe you can feel the success if you find you primary emanates electrostatic like field.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: turbo on November 29, 2009, 01:24:54 PM
LOL i have a couple of those oil caps too ( 0.1uf 3000v ) and i am always looking for them because they are the only ones that can handle 3Kv  :)
They work Great.
Better then the yellow poly ones. ( if they are not costum made? i might add)

And i have to say, Peter that setup looks great it really does.
I'm wondering which material those secondary coils are made of...
Also it seemed to me Don used 6mm2 car amplifyer supply wire for his primary,which is standed, and it looks you are using somesort of solid tubing for that is that correct?
It could play a major part in high frequency operation however i could be wrong.


I believe you can feel the success if you find you primary emanates electrostatic like field.


I think you are right Forest.
I have felt this electrostatic pressure while feeding 35Kv though somehigh voltage diodes to a metal piece as a long spark.
You willknow when you have it because you can feel it comming straight through well isolated tools when you bring them close   :)
It does not hurt it just feels like tingling.

Marco.

 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on November 29, 2009, 01:54:07 PM
Thanks guys.

Well i have just ordered those caps from ebay £12 a pop but something that will hopefully last a lifetime.

My secondary coils are made using tinned copper wire i made 2 sets of coils first was 14swg but i decided this was probably thinker that what Don used so i then dropped down to 16swg, i used grommet strip and epoxy to hold it all together, the grommet strip has grooves cut to push the wire down into place and the glue holds it down permanently.

I am not so sure thats speaker wire that he used for his primary, where did you get this info.
It looked very much like HV cable to me which i used, i bought 18awg multi-stranded 16kv wire for my primary.

I have also ordered a sniffer device that Don used in one of the videos to detect the field area, the one that beeps when close to a properly working device.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: turbo on November 29, 2009, 02:14:23 PM
Thanks guys.

I am not so sure thats speaker wire that he used for his primary, where did you get this info.
It looked very much like HV cable to me which i used, i bought 18awg multi-stranded 16kv wire for my primary.

Peter

Okay i didn't mean speaker wire , but the one that goes from the battery to the amp...
The red one.

Heres a couple of pic's and your righ't Peter it could very well be silicon HV wire used for Neon...since he is using other Neon stuff too.
In any case it does not look like solid wire but maybe it works with both...i hope so  :)

Marco.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on November 29, 2009, 02:33:53 PM
Hi marco

It's difficult to be sure about the primary wire he used, but in the Investors Weekend video a guy holds up the device with Don his arm pushes on the red wire and it bends easily and when he moves his arm away it goes back to it's original shape and also the coil moves in and out of the secondary coil with ease, i must conclude from this that the wire is extremely flexible in nature, also the wire he uses from the secondary side and caps looks very similar wire although different colours and when you zoom into the wire itself it doesn't look very thick gauge.
I personaly think it is HV wire.

The wire i am using is stranded not solid wire.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: turbo on November 29, 2009, 03:16:42 PM
okay i have both.
I will give it a try too  :)

M.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on November 29, 2009, 03:27:15 PM
certainly worth covering both angles ;)

I still need to find a nice 47nF 8kv cap if anyone has any ideas?

Are you building this as well marco.

Peter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: turbo on November 29, 2009, 03:37:15 PM
certainly worth covering both angles ;)

I still need to find a nice 47nF 8kv cap if anyone has any ideas?

Are you building this as well marco.

Peter

Yes i am.
But i am also working on P. & A. Correa's  PAGD.
This is a verry intresting device but it involves evacuated tubes, glassblowing etc.
I am also still working on Mark's TPU although that should be finished soon  :)

Marco.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on November 29, 2009, 04:20:28 PM
Hi marco
I have ordered the book Don references to with the charts but it has not arrived yet.

I am slowly getting to the point where i can progress, my main concern so far has been getting my coils to the right dimensions.

I have just powered up using a sig gen and a 200nF cap across my primary, i wanted to see what i would get on an untuned secondary coil.

I have attached 2 FFT shots

I am not yet ready to power this with an NST as it hasn't arrived yet but soon.

Peter

Looks great Peter...but how do you keep your work desk so clean  ;D
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Peterae on November 29, 2009, 04:57:02 PM
Hi stprue
Simple i only built it last week :), rest assured it will be the last time i post a picture of it that clean  ;D
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on November 29, 2009, 05:29:27 PM
@All

As far as I understand Don Smith device is using quarterwave length receiver with a EXECT coil copy of receiver being "untuned" part of L2 wich act as VIRTUAL GROUND for first L2 part. If both L2 parts were tuned you would have a real dipole but since only one part tuned so its seems to be nothing else but as I have said quarterwave length receiver with virtual ground plane.

Quarter wavelength antennas must be grounded to work properly so basicaly such an inductor must be grounded to recreated its missing dipole part image in earths ground. So. We can use earth ground OR we can attach a "MIRROR" coil or "VIRTUAL"  ground to finish up a dipole.

Regards Minde
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on November 29, 2009, 06:42:40 PM
@peter

Here is a recent vid I made of a air core TPU.  I'm not sure if you have seen it but it is related to this topic as well.  Let me know what you think!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XipjLmjCSNU
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on November 29, 2009, 06:45:12 PM
@All

As far as I understand Don Smith device is using quarterwave length receiver with a EXECT coil copy of receiver being "untuned" part of L2 wich act as VIRTUAL GROUND for first L2 part. If both L2 parts were tuned you would have a real dipole but since only one part tuned so its seems to be nothing else but as I have said quarterwave length receiver with virtual ground plane.

Quarter wavelength antennas must be grounded to work properly so basicaly such an inductor must be grounded to recreated its missing dipole part image in earths ground. So. We can use earth ground OR we can attach a "MIRROR" coil or "VIRTUAL"  ground to finish up a dipole.

Regards Minde

Thank you for that description Minde, I actually understand this concept much better now!
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: turbo on November 30, 2009, 11:41:42 PM
Hi Peter  :)

There are some nice caps available over here and i can send you some if you need any.
Just let me know.

Or you can try to order here but i do not know how far they are shipping:
http://www.surpluselectronics.nl/ (http://www.surpluselectronics.nl/)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: turbo on November 30, 2009, 11:46:32 PM
And some elco's  :)

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: turbo on November 30, 2009, 11:49:17 PM
one more  :)
Real nice one too   8)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on December 01, 2009, 01:30:50 AM
Nice work so far Peter, will watch this like a hawk, looking forward to the powerup!
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Paul-R on December 01, 2009, 02:32:33 PM
Some of the caps in Marco's message 376 may be found in many a television or monitor.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on December 01, 2009, 08:50:21 PM
Are the caps of Don Smith primary polarized ones or not ?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on December 01, 2009, 08:57:40 PM
Are the caps of Don Smith primary polarized ones or not ?

In the tabletop device he shows on the video I think the primary caps are unpolarised.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on December 01, 2009, 09:11:19 PM
Are the caps of Don Smith primary polarized ones or not ?

@Forest
If you are planning on building one get caps from Custom Electronics like Don Smith has on his primary (also would fit secondary) . They are mica caps and seem to be one of the best cap type for frequency ranges 0~200khz. They are not cheap but quality and specs will suite this amplifier. Of course going for Mhz range nothing beats variable vacuum caps but... they are very expensive.

Minde
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on December 01, 2009, 09:20:06 PM
I don't know if anybody noticed but his tabletop device secondary mimic primary. Strange.Do you have schematic of his NST ?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Yucca on December 01, 2009, 10:50:07 PM
Good fast fixed value caps are "doorknob capacitors", a search on ebay will give a few hits, they are fast and have very low ESR, ideal for high Q LC tanks. One of these paralleled with a variable vacuum for tuning would be pretty good I think, thats what HAM radio guys use.

edit: marcos photos contain a few doorknob caps.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: caveman360 on December 04, 2009, 12:45:21 AM
Hi everyone and it's good to hear some brains whirr  ??? over Don Smith's claims and devices (although I have not seen one working in any video appearances).
I myself have put together a few turns in coils (luckily, it's not something massive as in the case of Tesla Coil for producing lightning   8)  ) Also, a tip I found in M.Tulbury's 2008 book on design of TC with detailed excel spreadsheets and Micro-Cap modelling available at www.mhprofessional.com/tilbury/ (http://www.mhprofessional.com/tilbury/)

I guess many of you have read PJK's account of Don's device in 'Practical Guide to Free-Energy Devices' Ch3. Below I just cut a quote from page 32:

Quote
The exact wire length ratio of the turns in the "L1" and "L2" coils gives them an almost automatic synchronous tuning with each other, and the exact resonance between them can be achieved by the positioning of the "L1" coil along the length of the "L2" coil. While this is a perfectly good way of adjusting the circuit, in the 1994 build shown in the photograph, Don has opted to get the exact tuning by connecting a capacitor across "L1" as marked as "C" in the circuit diagram. Don found that the appropriate capacitor value for his particular coil build, was about 0.1 microfarad (100 nF) and so he connected two 47 nF highvoltage capacitors in parallel to get the value which he wanted. It must be remembered that the voltage across "L1" is very high, so if a capacitor is used in that position it will need a voltage rating of at least 9,000 volts. Don remarks that the actual capacitors seen in the photograph of this prototype are rated at fifteen thousand volts, and were custom made for him using a "self-healing" style of construction. As has already been remarked, this capacitor is an optional component.
Don also opted to connect a small capacitor across the "L2" coil, also for fine-tuning of the circuit, and that optional component is marked as "C2" in the circuit diagram and the value used by Don happened to be a single 47nF, 8,000 volt capacitor. As the two halves of the "L2" coil are effectively connected across each other, it is only necessary to have one fine-tuning capacitor for "L2"

Although there is a number of grey areas in the description, the main ones for me are
1. the spark gap (as the driver of the primary tank, and the frequency of oscillation depends on the gap characteristics as well as the tank capacitor),
2. the purpose of the bottom section of L2, (flux is mirrored or opposite to the top section against the grounding), and how to deal with voltage-current phase shift.
3. and so on and so on... ;)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: caveman360 on December 04, 2009, 01:53:45 AM
I feel that the mystery is hidden in primary circuit. It has to produce "radiant energy" in circumference of secondary coils. Neons are required then to tune it.
I'd agree with forest, from what I read the bang that agitates 'the ambient' must come from a HV disruptive discharge (in this case of the capacitor) into a line (or a loop). Somewhere in PJK's description of Don Smith's device, he mentions a tiny spark gap almost integrated with NPS. It seems to me, driving the primary tank with 4-9kV and 0.1uF capacitor discharge must produce more sparks than a tiny thing can handle.

In Tilbury's example, his TC spark gap is fed with 14kV 60Hz, and in order to produce oscillation in the area of 80kHz, he uses a rotary spark gap with 460 breaks per second (BPS). On the other hand, if you feed it with 31,5 kHz you still have to stick to the minimum BPS rate based on the ionisation time - though, with same TC parameters, you gain in power in the secondary.

I have put the BW's 3064 coil parameters as used by Don for the secondary, into the spreadsheets I mentioned above, it came up with 10MHz resonance frequency. If I half the coil (18 turns) and put 47nF as a terminal capacitor, the resonant frequency of L2 comes down to 243 kHz.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that whatever resonant frequency you choose in your secondary, the ambient  does not get disturbed visibly :o The important stage is to pull some power from the secondary, and with that catch some ambient oscillation  (or from the earth) turn it into oscillation of electrons in your circuit and add it on the output.
  ;) Simples
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on December 04, 2009, 12:06:12 PM
I will propose something.Make a parallel resonant circuit like Don primary but when resonant frequency is set to low value for example 200 hz. Just a car induction coil  capacitor and a simple 12V driver to drive it at 2 harmonic of that resonant frequency.Use neon or your skin to see where the radiant energy is.
It should be quite easy at that frequency - it will be around car coil output wire end like a spherical shield and additionally it will be around any conductor of circuit like invisible St.Elmo's fire.
Another way to see it is using AC detector. I've found that plasma globe emits  this field up to 2 meters around while at 0.5 m from it there is invisible wall (my detector has ability to sense metal edge and thus it reacts to this wall like it would be solid)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: caveman360 on December 04, 2009, 01:34:17 PM
Interesting, although IMHO, it's not the radiant energy from plasma what you pick up with the AC detector, but EMF from coils (kick me - it could be the same thing :D  - the excited ambient).   

But I think if I get AC at 400 Hz on the car ignition coil HV out and feed it in a copper bar/thick coil, I would not get any 'shockwave' or static field out of it, since that thick thing is a short circuit for the ignition coil secondary at that frequency and it doesn't pump enough power.

If we talk about a resonance - it may take a lot of copper for 200-400 Hz coil. One can get away with a much shorter wire length with a large capacitor, but the (Q)uality of that LCR will be very low so that one will not see "the resonance" or know which harmonic frequency is picked by the AC detector.

That's for the "exciter" of ambient.

My understanding is that picking up and converting ambient energy to a useful form (electrical) requires coupling the "picker" with earth (or air - Tesla's electric car had a 6ft whip from a reference I can't quote at the mo').

in the attached pic from D.Smith's presentation, I see some explanation of the effect: two metal plates with a dielectric in between, fed with pulsing HV thru a gap from Don's side, and excite "something" on the other side with an earth wire creating a gap with the plate - same size spark to the earth  ???
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: turbo on December 04, 2009, 11:18:19 PM
 
But I think if I get AC at 400 Hz on the car ignition coil HV out and feed it in a copper bar/thick coil, I would not get any 'shockwave' or static field out of it, since that thick thing is a short circuit for the ignition coil secondary at that frequency and it doesn't pump enough power.


It does if you stick in a high voltage diode (or enough 1Kv types in series) right after the ignition coil...
Think in terms like spark can go out, but not in.
Then you pull a big spark to some (free, not connected) metal rod and then you can already feel the radiant energy in the environment.

Marco.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: baroutologos on December 04, 2009, 11:36:16 PM
What you mean Marko? Please elaborate. I posses a ignition coil and microwave Hv diodes. What can i do to see the effect?

Baroutologos
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: caveman360 on December 05, 2009, 12:02:55 AM
It does if you stick in a high voltage diode (or enough 1Kv types in series) right after the ignition coil...
Think in terms like spark can go out, but not in.
Then you pull a big spark to some (free, not connected) metal rod and then you can already feel the radiant energy in the environment.

Marco, please correct me if I'm wrong, but when you rectify AC with a diode, it becomes a (pulsing) DC.

However, it doesn't make much difference because you use the potential to charge your metal rod (and if it doesn't discharge - then that's it, you won't have another spark). Do we call a corona 'radiant energy'?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: turbo on December 05, 2009, 12:37:18 AM
Offcource it is a pulsed DC High Voltage discharge when it leaves the diode...
My point was that it's possible to generate the effect while the transformer/ignition coil is AC driven.
Without the diode it does not work or at least it did not work in my tests.

I won't call corona radiant energy.
Corona is concentrated locally around conductors,sharp tips etc. while radiant is spread out in the environment much further and like some sort of invisible pressure.

These are definatly two diffrent things.  :)

Marco.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: caveman360 on December 05, 2009, 01:08:45 AM
If I may just briefly continue on the Don's concept (in the picture above from his demonstration video (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2820531/don_smith_free_energy/) from 00:51:30 mark, the comment was that it was 8kV AC that was coming from the hand-held TC, powered by a standalone dielectric testing device with a battery pack - not connected to earth circuit in the building. The TC sparks into a capacitor, with an earth wire sparking on the other side. Assuming, a (good) capacitor is essentially a "blocking device", doesn't allow electrons from one plate to jump through the insulator to the other side - particularly in the open circuit like that on the demo. Don said that what was coming out on the other side of the capacitor was "ambient background energy" that is ready to be picked up. Commercial devices are used in aviation, scooters etc.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: pese on December 05, 2009, 01:10:23 AM

Do you discussing here from this
Mr Smith ?
http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=1078

Pese
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: turbo on December 05, 2009, 01:15:21 AM
Hi Pese  :)

We are discussing this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UojMvCN3gck (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UojMvCN3gck)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: caveman360 on December 05, 2009, 01:56:20 AM
Well, to conclude, I've tried this today, didn't work for me. ::)
I used a flyback transformer HV coil with integrated rectifier/multiplier/whatever, - should be minimum 4KV DC (smoothed for the telly screen)  with my own primary and feedback winding, the oscillator powered from 12V DC battery.
HV DC is connected to a spark-gap TC of Don's design, slightly varied, as I did not have exctly same components on hand. A home-made Alu-PVC-oil cap (calculated 5nF) for the primary tank and I did not bother to tune the secondary as it is not loaded yet, and so I did not tune the primary either - my SGap producing just a "disruptive discharge".
Different sources of Don's device description tell different story - coil wire length ratio (1:4), in another source - wire length of the primary is not important (but then you have to tune it with a cap  ??? ) yaman, total gridlock.

Anyway, after some fiddling and coupling, I get same size and strength of spark as in the primary spark gap, on both upper and lower section of the coil against the central tap as well as between themselves - which is good, and safe enough. But...
 It doesn't produce the discussed effect - I have no spark on the earth side of a two plate capacitor.

Must check my earth cable and connection tomorrow.... 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: caveman360 on December 05, 2009, 02:34:46 AM
Do you discussing here from this Mr Smith ?
http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=1078

Pese

Well, most of the document make sence. And I agree that we spend a lot of money trying to replicate something simple like he claims but never seen working. Obviously, we do need to grasp the concept before trying to replicate something.
However, we watched Kapanadze video of a working unit, and the concept is similar. So we'll keep trying. :D
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: sparks on December 05, 2009, 07:03:52 AM
    If we form a field of positively charged ionized gas.  This acts as a capacitor plate.  The ionized gas can be caused to remain in the "capacitor plate"  by response of the gas to a magnetic field.  The gas atomic neuclei have a magnetic dipole moment that will align with a magnetic field and any heating of the ions is converted into increased cyclotron frequency about the magnetic field lines.  The magnetic field lines so arranged as to cause the ionized gas to remain in a spatial zone or create a cloud of positively charged particles that are magnetically confined.  A macrospcopic grouping of positively charged ions of billions of ionized atoms results in a very charged up capacitor if one agrees that the Earth is negatively charged or the other plate of the capacitor.  The electrical polarization of the field about this ion cloud is powerful. Lightning storm powerful.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: wings on December 05, 2009, 10:18:37 AM
    If we form a field of positively charged ionized gas.  This acts as a capacitor plate.  The ionized gas can be caused to remain in the "capacitor plate"  by response of the gas to a magnetic field.  The gas atomic neuclei have a magnetic dipole moment that will align with a magnetic field and any heating of the ions is converted into increased cyclotron frequency about the magnetic field lines.  The magnetic field lines so arranged as to cause the ionized gas to remain in a spatial zone or create a cloud of positively charged particles that are magnetically confined.  A macrospcopic grouping of positively charged ions of billions of ionized atoms results in a very charged up capacitor if one agrees that the Earth is negatively charged or the other plate of the capacitor.  The electrical polarization of the field about this ion cloud is powerful. Lightning storm powerful.

My first test, 8 euro plasmaglobe, aluminium foil, exsaust light tube.
what the next step?

 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: sparks on December 05, 2009, 01:34:04 PM
   Convert the hf hv across the fl bulb to lower frequency lower voltage.  Drive a small motor.  More interesting.  Later on you can use air as a fuel and get a very dense confined cloud to work with.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: wings on December 05, 2009, 05:57:32 PM
   Convert the hf hv across the fl bulb to lower frequency lower voltage.  Drive a small motor.  More interesting.  Later on you can use air as a fuel and get a very dense confined cloud to work with.

playing wit plasma globe it is possible to power 4 led lamp (220V 2W) no matter to put it on ground or on aluminium foil.
I have measured frequency between close to 60 - 70 kHz's
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on December 05, 2009, 08:10:30 PM
WOW that is pretty impressive!  60-70hertz!  Have you tried hooking it up to an inverter?  What is the amplitude out?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: gyulasun on December 06, 2009, 02:35:31 PM

Hi wrote 60-70 kHz, not Hz.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: wings on December 06, 2009, 07:38:17 PM
probably not the right place ... but read this:

http://www.new-energy-paces.com/index_anglais.htm
http://www.new-energy-paces.com/brevet_anglais/pages_anglais/brevet_anglais.htm


Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: stprue on December 06, 2009, 08:41:45 PM
Hi wrote 60-70 kHz, not Hz.

My mistake! 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: bw on December 17, 2009, 05:58:31 AM
Here is a newly posted video of Don demonstrating his unit starting around 2:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJGRKg54yao&feature=related
this is one of ninteen.  in one of the earlier ones he ran the same device using smaller bulbs.  after that he disconnected the ground wire and forgot to rehook it so during this last run the readings were a bit lower
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: mlurye on January 07, 2010, 03:08:26 PM
.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: kukulcangod on February 09, 2010, 03:21:55 PM
All I know guys is that charging capacitors by shorting manually the battery i got yellow and blue sparks and with this last ones my capacitors of 300v charged up to 150 and 200+ volts ,now, not every cap does this the supercaps can't do it, bateries can't do it, this are caps that i took from a disposable camera the energy disipates after a while but then again is able to blow up a small light bulb and from only 12v 8mah battery doing the pulse charge? I was really amazed, I thing smith has a real theory but we don't know all of this small details that have to play its part like and orchestra, a very well tunned one if you ask me, thing is I commend you for your efforts at replicating , is the only way theory and talking just won't cut it, still waiting for my own resources to balance out so i can build one of this, in the meantime don't let go on that bone!1keep up the good work .Good luck to all!!
 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: dag57 on February 10, 2010, 06:47:45 PM
hello to everyone, have enjoyed this thread; just got through reading all the post, was woundering how peters build was going? looks really GOOD! also looks like it's been over 2 months since his last post; or update..  also don was selling a couple of video's on the nuenergy website; the weekend workshop and  the  video dealing with this build..  has anyone posted these on one of the tube networks yet?? or would they please;  it would be of an enormous help here!!  also don had a book out called " an answer to america's energy deficit"; does anyone have a copy of this book?   great work guys!! thanks, dag
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on February 15, 2010, 11:39:40 PM
Just search youtube for it, it`s all out there.
But don`t base your component data on anything Don sais.
He sometimes mistakes capacitors for being 15.000 Volt when they are 4000 Volt and NSTs being 9.000 Volt when the label reads 3000 Volt.

I have friends in russia and japan, and there is no Don Smith devices "in large quantities" on the markets over there in contrast to what Smith said in 1996.
So it looks like he was just bought up and the production efforts were frozen by counteracting interests.
Smith`s theories do nonetheless have IMHO a high potential.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: grizli on March 23, 2010, 03:15:12 PM
Ao what we know ?

Fasts here are confusing me
Acording to smith videos images documents and schematics i got this conclusion

First he use center tapped NST switch mode transformer, spark gap and two HV diodes to excite primary LC circuit.
In his video there is 0,2uF capacitor paralel to 4 turns coil, which should probably give about 50-100khz resonance frequency which suggest that his resonance frequency of LC circuit primary is EXACTLY the same as switching frequency of NST..
Half part of secondary has 0,047uF capacitor paralel which probably gives the SAME resonant frequency as in primary LC circuit..

Other half of secondary coil is free (no capacitor)...
Now what confuses me : HOW can LOW frequency sine wave trigger much higher frequency quater wave oscilation in other part of coil ?
Probably sine LC is about 100khz and 15 turns secondary has quater wave about few Mhz...
I reall wonder why primary has no square wave triggering or larger capacitor that gives strong pulse to LC primary which would generate harmonic full siganl which would trigger secondary..


Any idea whats going on here ?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: grizli on March 23, 2010, 03:21:42 PM
I'd agree with forest, from what I read the bang that agitates 'the ambient' must come from a HV disruptive discharge (in this case of the capacitor) into a line (or a loop). Somewhere in PJK's description of Don Smith's device, he mentions a tiny spark gap almost integrated with NPS. It seems to me, driving the primary tank with 4-9kV and 0.1uF capacitor discharge must produce more sparks than a tiny thing can handle.



spark is tiny cause NST SMPS is AC and its frequency equals LC resonance frequency of primary coil  so it is just adding energy to paralel LC circuit
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: starcruiser on March 23, 2010, 04:31:51 PM
you use the smaller coil to "bang" the larger LC which is tuned. This design is very much similar to a Tesla design. the fact is you need to tune the larger to 1/4 wavelength of the primary. Some have said the primary (smaller coil) is mostly irrelevant, but Don said it should be 1/4 the length of the secondary. The spark gap is the key here, look at the Tesla patents. Multiple shots from the NST into the primary (control) coil which resonates the secondary (collector) coil with a couple of diodes and capacitors to do a Power Factor correction. rate the caps and diodes to handle the voltage.

Now there is some confusion that the output circuit is a loop of wire through the center of the secondary (90 degree sudo coil, kapendanze) or is there another (second/conventional) coil. This has yet to be determined or shared. I see this device is an electron pump so a resonant state on the output is probably not desired since movement (pulsed DC??) is required to move the electrons (TBD). I see that a ground source provides a larger pool of electrons, thus more output. I am sure you can drive a simple output coil/wire with this device, look at Don's demo device on the board, the air core coil on the far right, this has its secondary grounded on one side. Getting clearer yet? All are similar in design, all use a low current HV source with a spark gap to activate the electron pump. This design will allow you to loop the output back to drive the device.

Free Energy, Nothing free here, just converting energy, it takes energy to make it. OU, no, this is an energy converter, you are using what is already provided.

I am working on this myself so I will post results on this but will not give it away totally. I want to get this out without suppression so when I figure this out I will share it but probably not the way some would like.

The NST can be replaced by a car ignition coil BTW, the spark gap used by Don is a small enclosed unit that is used for over voltage protection that is used in electronic devices. Make one out of some steel rod.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on March 23, 2010, 05:08:43 PM
spark is tiny cause NST SMPS is AC and its frequency equals LC resonance frequency of primary coil  so it is just adding energy to paralel LC circuit

Hmm...I'm not sure but seems that Kapanadze device "spark" is silent .... can someone confirm ?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: grizli on March 23, 2010, 06:44:09 PM
you use the smaller coil to "bang" the larger LC which is tuned. This design is very much similar to a Tesla design. the fact is you need to tune the larger to 1/4 wavelength of the primary. Some have said the primary (smaller coil) is mostly irrelevant, but Don said it should be 1/4 the length of the secondary. The spark gap is the key here, look at the Tesla patents. Multiple shots from the NST into the primary (control) coil which resonates the secondary (collector) coil with a couple of diodes and capacitors to do a Power Factor correction. rate the caps and diodes to handle the voltage.


All in all you havent commented that capacitor values which are BIG clearly suggest that resonance LC frequency is FAR AWAY or far lower than 1/4 wavelength for that secondary wire!!!
200nF and 4 turns of coil probably make resonance at 100khz(around) but 1/4 wavelength is in mhz range..

mabe capacitor values on video are WRONG ?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: starcruiser on March 31, 2010, 12:29:01 AM
OK, well I have started my build of the Don Smith table top device, my pix are shown below. I am using a standard car ignition coil for the time being and will obtain a NST with a 9KV output in the near future if my present HV setup fails to yield any results.

I still need to finish a few build requirements but wanted to share my progress to date. I am on vacation (kids on spring break) so I have some free time to tinker. Life always seems to get in the way when I want to play :)

I am going to run some preliminary tests on the coils as-is to see what the output maybe. I will be scoping the coils as well as checking them with a HV probe (this is first BTW) to see what output is provided. I still need to obtain and install the diodes and final stage capacitors. After the preliminary tests I will then determine if this design has any merit and whether to proceed with further tests and design changes (more coils?).

Current build specs;

Primary coil 5 turns 3/8' soft copper tubing

Secondary coil  2 x 28 turns stranded copper 16Ga wire

Form, 24" L x 2 3/8" OD PVC pipe from Home Depot, cut into 12" lengths

HV source, Standard Car Ignition coil, new from autozone, no resistor required. Output wire is a stranded core type.

Coil control module, GM ignition module

Module Trigger will be an RCA tube audio signal generator

Spark Gap is home made from 1/4" cold rolled steel rod from home Depot. @ sections @ 3" each


I should be posting my preliminary results later today if not tomorrow.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: starcruiser on March 31, 2010, 12:33:24 AM
All in all you havent commented that capacitor values which are BIG clearly suggest that resonance LC frequency is FAR AWAY or far lower than 1/4 wavelength for that secondary wire!!!
200nF and 4 turns of coil probably make resonance at 100khz(around) but 1/4 wavelength is in mhz range..

mabe capacitor values on video are WRONG ?

Which capacitors are you referring to? The output stage or the input?

The input stage is for metering the frequency of the sparks, The output side is using the large caps to store potential and are a PF (power Factor) correction network. Look up power factor correction to see why he is using the size he is.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: sparks on March 31, 2010, 04:16:28 AM
   The spark gap could act as a receiving antennae or field for any number of high power waves.  This would be photons converting into plasmons.  The plasma oscillations or electron density waves in the gap then electrostatically or capacitively couple to the lc for conversion of the energy to lower frequency.  The output lc is designed to ring at a frequency that accumulates power in the secondary at a lower frequency than the input so as to minimize radiant losses and maximise power gain.  The bulbs form the resistance in an rlc.  Or you could just bleed the capacitors into an inverter circuit whatever.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: starcruiser on March 31, 2010, 05:32:54 PM
Sparks,

I believe the spark gap is creating the effect that Tesla and Edison saw when engaging the DC generators, creating that radiant pulse in the wires. What SM and others have reproduced, IMO, is the same effect using the spark gap. HV output from a TC or NST ( a few thousand volts) and using a spark gap to create HV pulses thru the primary wire. cannon shots, lots of them with a fast send off....

Use the secondary to harvest the radiant.

I also think the 90 degree coupling is the output wire going thru the air-core coil, like Kapanadze is doing and I think SM did too. Lots of conjecture yes, but some experiments to be done to tell for sure.

Looping the out put back to the input is then relatively simple since the output is isolated from the input anyways, use a transformer to isolate and step down the voltage to run the TC driver
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on March 31, 2010, 05:59:03 PM
 ;D ;D ;D


Yes! All those devices are related to each other. Very good comment!
Btw : What is  Don Smith talking about in his video ? What is dynode ?

P.S.
I have a  rebus for you  ::) :
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/8817/supressione.jpg
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: h2ocommuter on April 01, 2010, 05:54:58 AM
Forrest,
That section was when Don was talking about the many devices that allready have the electron amplification working in them. 
Here is the wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynode (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynode)

Cool part.

Zane
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: baroutologos on April 01, 2010, 06:36:13 PM
Hello Commuter,

I see you just begun your experimental carreer and keep searching... good. Keep learning!

By the way as i see it, the Dynode works on the well known avalance effect that electrons do create in a electric field. Whether or not this procedure is OU is another subject of discussion.

Actually, i was reviewing Patrick's kelly "noob" FE concept machines and one simple one attributed to N. Tesla claims a potential OU by this effect. http://free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapt11.html

Hard to believe it, yet it very simple design and odd approach makes you wonder...
By no means i want to distract you from your experiments. In any way, i will replicate that and i will report as usual.

Salutes,
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: h2ocommuter on April 05, 2010, 02:57:04 AM
@ Bar,
I am glad you wrote, That seems like a somewhat easy device to build.  I will put my hand to it and see what I can come up with.
I am getting a consistant spark with the plasma globe that I will use to generate the charged ions and respectively draw them to the electrodes. I will use copper for pos. and aluminum for neg.
Following that same vein, I will use the plasma globe to supply the magnetic fields also.

Zane
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: xenomorphlabs on April 16, 2010, 05:09:43 AM
@h2ocommuter:
Looking forward to you doing that.
I am currently putting together Smith´s dipole version.
Too provoking is Smith´s statement that this is supposed to produce 100 KW!
 
If he is right, then i guess soon the plasma globe manufacturers will have to add the lines to their product manuals : "Warning, don´t place the plasma globe next to copper and aluminum objects or you will get killed !" ;D
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: slapper on April 28, 2010, 05:17:52 AM
@h2ocommuter

Have you ever wrapped a few turns of insulated copper around your iron grounding rod to see what you could see?

Thanks.

nap
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: h2ocommuter on April 28, 2010, 07:22:23 AM
@Bar,
I am glad you gave me some leeway, I am finding so many variables it would not be right for me to  stray from my pointed thoughts and testing at this stage. I should stay and not become distracted. there is more happening in my circuit than I previously understood.  Concider me waylaid on the Ion spark related accumulation process.

@Xeno,
I am really happy someone is trying that setup. I trust  you will allow my concession on the Ion accumulation project as well. I would like to brainstorm with you about the Cap design for your plasma tube first.  If you are willing to.

@ Slapper,
My grounding rod is mild steel and is wrapped with bare copper, "a normal ground rod".
I can look at your suggestion and do some testing. I am not too sure what I am looking for by your prompt. I am afraid I am not up to speed with the propagation speed and high harmonic tuning yet as you may not have gathered. This would be just a bit over my head at this point.

Mod: My reasoning,
I very happily have found three maybe four different types of sparks that would allow many different test to be done with the Ion project. That being said, I found one in particular that has the energy of the block wall,"I believe", so that is allowing my mind to flourish and better conceive the workings of the DS project.
These discoveries would propell my directions into using a spherical type spark gap like Tesla designed to aggressively quench the sparks and take the abruptive discharges into a much higher freq. level.
 I am not willing yet to go this way, I am testing various Capacitance  parameters to see what kind of frequency levels I can achieve using this method. With the various types of sparks and finding the block wall in my circuitry I have my hands full in this discovery process.

If I truly have found the Block wall and how to controle it, I should be much closer to the goal line.

God Bless and God Speed to all.

h2ocommuter
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: slapper on April 28, 2010, 08:04:49 AM
@ Slapper,
My grounding rod is mild steel and is wrapped with bare copper, "a normal ground rod".
I can look at your suggestion and do some testing. I am not too sure what I am looking for by your prompt. I am afraid I am not up to speed with the propagation speed and high harmonic tuning yet as you may not have gathered. This would be just a bit over my head at this point.

No biggie. I'd test myself as soon as I find my material. I know I've got a steel rod around here somewhere.

I'd start with about 4 turns of some of that insulated solid copper electrical wire. Around 12 to 16 gauge?
Tack a neon bulb across the coil and allow for the coil to slide on the rod for tuning as well as perhaps some coil spreading. The position and offset of your spark gaps may also propagate different wavelengths.

But to be honest I have no clue what you will get out of this.

Be carefull and take care.

nap
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: kurtnorway on June 14, 2010, 11:00:08 PM
Everyone trying to replicate Don Smith, or any Tesla related technology, remember, they have all in common the high RF stuff, even Steven Mark I think has some sort of HF/RF in it.
Thus we should look at the radio technology and learn from there first before we jump into experimenting with this stuff.
Just tuning an antenna the old way, it takes some studying and training, but when first got this fundamental training and understanding, than we can take the next step and dig into that controversial resonance stuff.
When Don Smith explain, "it has all to do with firstly and mostly Resonance at high frequence", which means tuning, in addition there are involved high voltage and presumable high current. This is tricky for even an educated and trained radio expert.
In addition we have all the unknown, controversy and so forth, a lot of it not in any book of conventional teaching.

So, it I guess everything boils down to whether you believe or not. My advice for those who believe and try replicate this stuff, start study Radio theory.
By the way, I am a believer and I would love to do the experiments, just don't have the time or capability, have studied some radio stuff fore beginners, even that was heavy stuff for me.
Good luck to all.   
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: h2ocommuter on June 15, 2010, 12:03:55 AM
100% agree.

I am scooting through all my experiments with luck and determination in hand.
Other than that I am shooting in the DARk.
I am buying everything and anything to get to the tuning of resonant behavior in my circuitry.

NT associated everything into resonance!
He first did calculations then applied the electrical component to the device.
His next steps seemed to refine these calculations for the new various information these devices allowed an understanding to.
This is the way I see it.

Good luck
Zane
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: mircea on June 29, 2010, 10:22:18 AM
Today i remade my Primary coil, i increased the diameter to just fit inside my secondary coil and i managed to use a full quarter wire length of the secondary in just over 5.5 turns so i should now have a pretty close match with regard to the wire length relationships, i will try resonating it tomorrow with caps.

Now in one of Don's videos he states that some Neon Transformers printed ratings show OU

Poynt99 stated to me this may not be the case, so i looked into this a little below are the specs of a Ventex NPS-12D10

You will notice at the bottom of the specs it has ** and says 'Equivalent brightness of electromagnetic transformer' so the print on the label is only an equivalent rating compared to a conventional transformer as opposed to this switched mode version which has an oscillating output of 20kHz, and therefore is not a true representation of power output from the module.

Another thing that occurred to me is that in the device i am trying to replicate don uses a dimmer to vary the 120VAC feeding the neon transformer, now i am not so sure this would work well with a switched mode psu based neon supply, it certainly wouldn't give a linear variation of the HV output and would probably cutout totally once a certain voltage is reached, in fact if the switched psu did it's job i would have thought it would either maintain regulation or cutout totally.

I am now wondering did he even power this up at some point OUCH.

Peter


Specifications     
Input Voltage:    12 VDC (±10%)
Input Current:    1000 mA (Max)
Driving Distance*:    
Neon:    1-10 ft, (0-3 m)
Mercury:    1-12 ft, (0-3.7 m)
Output Voltage:    3000V
Output Current**:    15 mA
Frequency:    20 kHz ( ± )
Operating Temp:    0° to 104°F
(-18° to 40°C)
Dimensions    
Length:    3.0 in. (76.20 mm)
Width:    1.75 in. (44.45 mm)
Height:    1.25 in. (31.75 mm)
Mounting:    2.6 in. (66.04 mm)
Weight:    6.0 oz. (158.0 gr)
12 VDC Primary Leads:    8 in. (45.72 cm) wo/jack
Secondary GTO Leads:    18 in. (45.7 cm)

* Based on standard 12mm tube. Deduct one foot from driving footages for each pair of electrodes.

** Equivalent brightness of electromagnetic transformer

Hi,

Please send me the coils (L1 & L2) detail (yo5tx@yahoo.com), exact diameter, lengths, wire, etc. I want to see exact natural resonant freq.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: giantkiller on June 29, 2010, 11:27:17 PM
THe similarities are uncanny:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/kapagen/replications.htm
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: luishan on October 19, 2010, 09:27:51 PM
Anybody more progress information about the Don Smith device ?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Nabo00o on November 06, 2010, 03:00:19 AM
I don't know if this has already been mentioned but the user armagedo0on has also done some experiments which have very close similarities to Don's devices. (Check out all his videos btw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA87r58iCXo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA87r58iCXo)
The video speaks for itself, and it is Don's approach to the "normal" Tesla coil, with the primary moved into the center of the secondary. I do not believe the secondary is reverse winded from the middle though.

I'm just thinking if he had put a much higher voltage into that, he could have gone from miliwats into kilowats....

Replications are the key here of course, not talk, so I hope I will be able to supply the knowledge base with something as well with time....
Julian
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: luishan on November 06, 2010, 03:45:38 AM
Check it out here. One person partially succeed to replicate the device.

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3.125

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YNGrhwf9Yk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ela0XmK4YKg

The circuit diagram for above set up.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on November 06, 2010, 03:48:09 AM
I don't know if this has already been mentioned but the user armagedo0on has also done some experiments which have very close similarities to Don's devices. (Check out all his videos btw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA87r58iCXo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA87r58iCXo)
The video speaks for itself, and it is Don's approach to the "normal" Tesla coil, with the primary moved into the center of the secondary. I do not believe the secondary is reverse winded from the middle though.

I'm just thinking if he had put a much higher voltage into that, he could have gone from miliwats into kilowats....

Replications are the key here of course, not talk, so I hope I will be able to supply the knowledge base with something as well with time....
Julian

Somewhat middle tapped tesla coil. As far as I know noone ever properly replicated this device (usual consiquence on most any other inventor devices...) so noone can tell. I have a descent setup but no power supply that could hit spark 1:3 to main system frequency - 50khz(spark) to 150khz (main) .. or to every third wave thus sustaining resonance.
Thats my personal experience.

Minde
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on November 06, 2010, 03:53:50 AM
Check it out here. One person partially succeed to replicate the device.


Partially succeeded? Huh? Sorry bro...
No HF spark excited primary tank ... no sustained resonance in primary tank... no go.

Minde
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Nabo00o on November 08, 2010, 11:38:13 PM
That is a very decent setup to put it mildly  :D

First I wondered: Is that a one turn primary?!? But looking at it a little closer and I see the rest of it....
Seems like you got some pretty high quality components there, a shame you can't use it yet, though I look forward to see it when you get it started  ;) That's also pretty much how I'm thinking about making it. But I'm not sure whether a one layer coil or a pancake one would be the best...
If its about making the magnetic fields highly separated from the center and out then I would say the latter.

I hope I'll find some more info about that soon.
Julian
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: armagdn03 on November 09, 2010, 12:22:46 AM
I don't know if this has already been mentioned but the user armagedo0on has also done some experiments which have very close similarities to Don's devices. (Check out all his videos btw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA87r58iCXo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA87r58iCXo)
The video speaks for itself, and it is Don's approach to the "normal" Tesla coil, with the primary moved into the center of the secondary. I do not believe the secondary is reverse winded from the middle though.

I'm just thinking if he had put a much higher voltage into that, he could have gone from miliwats into kilowats....

Replications are the key here of course, not talk, so I hope I will be able to supply the knowledge base with something as well with time....
Julian

Hello, that is my video,

The secondary is a bifilar wound tesla coil, created to have a high electrostatic component. The center wound primary creates 2 virtual poles on each side of the primary of opposite polarity. Through the center of the secondary is a wire with a diode. The two virtual poles capacitively couple to the central wire and cause it to pump charge through a load.

Inductive action causes 2 virtual electric poles, which are capacitively coupled to a load. This unit was DC output, however it is easy to accomplish AC.

Smith has quite obviously not released anything of value. Pave your own way.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: FatBird on November 09, 2010, 12:30:22 AM
Congratulations on your BEAUTIFUL SETUP!!!

How did you wind the big coil so perfectly?

Thank you.

.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on November 09, 2010, 02:07:16 AM
Smith has quite obviously not released anything of value. Pave your own way.

You have not replicated Don Smith device. Why do you say he didnt release anything? You 6-20 cps discharge will never match 50khz.
I am sure you understand what 50khz spark discharge excited tank LC is?

Thats where the problem is. People DO NOT replicate device properly.. most of the times not even close to the setup-meant-to-be and then claim that it does not work and inventor is nobody. The problem is not the inventor the problem is you. So thats this much about technical part.

   I am not sure if this device is bs or not because I did not replicate it fully so I cant claim or say anything. Period.

Excemple: people claim stan meyers patents/device are crap... but none of them have a device or even close to device those patents describe. Why do they claim shit then?...

Regards Minde
 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Nabo00o on November 09, 2010, 02:15:05 AM
I'm sorry armagedn if I pre-concluded your setup to be based one Smith's, its just that from what I've seen from him, center-positioning of the primary is very important (as opposed to the popular tesla coil), in addition to reverse winding.

Aha okey, bifilar, then not to cancel the magnetic field but (as in tesla's patent) to increase the voltage/charge and thus the total energy the coil can store...
When trying to picture the circuit of your coil system it actually seems quite complex, since you have both bifilar, center tap and center positioning of primary coil. Its really an interesting idea, and just as interesting a result  :)

And before I repeat the same mistake I did earlier in one of your videos, I'm not that knowledgeable in this area, I'm just trying to learn all I can  ;D
Julian
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Nabo00o on November 09, 2010, 02:26:44 AM
Actually minde it was I who connected armagedn into this tread as you of course know, he has a different point of view and I can understand that, because not everything is released on the info necessary to replicate Don's system.
But I have gotten the impression that there are some serious clues in what we have already, and I hope we can eventually get the whole picture, because Don Smith's work seems to unify a lot of other devices.

Experiment and learn, I gotta do that  :)
Julian
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: wattsup on November 09, 2010, 02:37:56 AM
Many many months ago, I remember having done some very close up looks at the Don Smith device and from what I can see, the outer coil winds are all in parallel at the bottom end of the winds. That outer wind should not be one or two coils. Putting each wind in parallel means the output will enjoy more amperage and still have high enough voltage depending on how highly reactive the primary field can be pulsed. There is no other way to produce any amperage with such a set-up unless you parallel the secondary. Each secondary wind will be catching enough voltage due to proximity and together they will generate some amperage.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on November 09, 2010, 03:15:53 AM
Actually minde it was I who connected armagedn into this tread as you of course know, he has a different point of view and I can understand that, because not everything is released on the info necessary to replicate Don's system.
But I have gotten the impression that there are some serious clues in what we have already, and I hope we can eventually get the whole picture, because Don Smith's work seems to unify a lot of other devices.

Experiment and learn, I gotta do that  :)
Julian

It's all good man really. I just find it strange when someone claims or says something without evidence or "HARD COPY" of inventors device and usually base his/her opinion on - "I think". Makes me wonder what position that person takes to claim/say that. Noone is all knowing. I would agree that not 100% of info was released by Don but lets recreate as much as was released. All changes might severely affect system perfomance and/or the whole concept/principle. 

Minde
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: cognito on November 09, 2010, 12:20:13 PM
Hi, I'm new here and I'm trying to simulate a Don Smith Generator. Don't know if this eventually can be simulated but I try.

First I took the transmitter part of the generator to let it free run on it's self resonance by using a NST low amps high voltage to charge a capacitor. The spark gap works as a voltage limiter and kicks the LC circuit into resonance. So the frequency from the NST is not the resonance frequency, only a pump.
When this happens it is circulating amps in the MHz frequency (AC wave). Then the wave can be received in the L2a/b coils.
Let me know what you think...

Regards,
cognito
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: armagdn03 on November 09, 2010, 08:14:21 PM
I'm sorry armagedn if I pre-concluded your setup to be based one Smith's, its just that from what I've seen from him, center-positioning of the primary is very important (as opposed to the popular tesla coil), in addition to reverse winding.

Aha okey, bifilar, then not to cancel the magnetic field but (as in tesla's patent) to increase the voltage/charge and thus the total energy the coil can store...
When trying to picture the circuit of your coil system it actually seems quite complex, since you have both bifilar, center tap and center positioning of primary coil. Its really an interesting idea, and just as interesting a result  :)

And before I repeat the same mistake I did earlier in one of your videos, I'm not that knowledgeable in this area, I'm just trying to learn all I can  ;D
Julian

Hello,

You are correct in your conclusion, however I never claimed to be replicating smith. I cannot say I have EVER done a replication, like to do my own thing. 

This is not a smith device. However this and other videos I have give a good idea into how such technology works. But if smith knew what he claimed I seriously doubt. I own his book, seen his many publications, watched all of his video, and am quite competent in this area.

One serious clue to his cluelessness is the way he states on multiple occasions that the output of a neon sign transformer is OU in and of itself. This is CRAP and not true. The output voltage on the transformer uses peak to peak voltage not RMS. Peak to peak is important because we are interested in the breakdown voltage of the gas to be ionized (neon in this case) and if this measurement is used it will give incorrect output power measurements. If the voltage is converted to RMS, the power calculations come in well under unity. This is simple stuff, but he made this same mistake, calling this device OU over and over...If he cannot understand one simple, and incredibly important component of his systems, how do we expect him to understand power measurement in general.

Aside from this, on a phone conversation I had with Peter Lindemann once, the good Dr. informed me that to his knowledge nobody had ever successfully replicated any of his devices, and he runs in a crowd with very competent engineers who have tried Im sure.


As for my device. This style with the center placed primary is called a Kinkade coil. Tesla was also a pioneer in this style coil. Ungrounded the center placed primary will excite the lowest possible harmonic at half wave, rather than the quarter wave of the "Tesla coil" or quarter wave resonator. this creates a magnetic central peak, and electric peaks at each end of the coil.

The bifilar is chosen solely for its electrostatic purposes. The bifilar winding does nothing concerning canceling any flux, and is chosen only for its electrostatic component. It is designed around right hand rule circuitry concepts and was made to take an oscillating B field, and transduce it into two virtual electrical poles. Also this has no center tap. It is only a bifilar secondary with open ends, primary and signal generator, and a wire with foil and a diode inside.

Another large misconception in this are is the idea of reverse wound coils in a transformer configuration, some people claim flux canceling, which is crazy, and untrue. When an inductor creates a B field, the magnetic dipole created is shared between both conductors. If you reverse the windings of the secondary, it still shares the same dipole, still gets its energy in the same fashion, and its CEMF created will still oppose the primary no matter what orientation it has (reverse or regular), the only difference will be the polarity found on the output wires.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Nabo00o on November 09, 2010, 08:37:11 PM
Yes I am aware that there will still be bemf in reverse winding, as the polarity will only change.
With a center tap this can be used to make the middle ground or the negative part, and it has (as you also mentioned) a drastic effect on the type of wave we would otherwise get.

I have myself been thinking that there is a lot of self-contradictions in Don's papers, but I wonder if it is a way for him of speaking, which could send a message through to the builders without getting into financial or other forms of problems. Of course he is dead now, but (at least as he himself said) the reason for the proprietary stuff was because he wanted to raise enough capital to get it out.

I personally have no belief in that such a plan could ever work, as the two systems are totally opposite.
Greed do not like free, and money, power, sponsors, capitalism etc has its only motivation from the accumulation of wealth/power. So...... anyway. I believe there might be more to magnetic fields and and what reversing the coil in relation another could do, but as I said I don't have too much experience, but I am convinced for the moment  :)

Julian
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: kukulcangod on April 01, 2011, 06:11:27 AM
Hi All

Is anybody replicate this experiment?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jim3Q_k-K9Q&NR=1

Here I will save you the trouble of searching for the not described HV device, Don was random sometimes about this names, it is called "spark coil", also another guy I can't find on youtube replicated a tesla experiment with same device, he used to suck black ink proving some kind of force field predicted by the latter, the experimenter was in a wheel chair...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jim3Q_k-K9Q&NR=1

Hopefully I will find one of this at some point cheap enough
Best Regards
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: johnnyfg on July 01, 2011, 08:03:01 PM
"http://www.001-lab.com/001lab/index.php?topic=639.msg27686#msg27686"
A site in Russia, look at the page using "Google Chrome" and auto-translate it into
language of choice.

Tuning instructions are there. going to check this further.

"http://translate.google.com/"
Is useful to translate the document.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: h2ocommuter on July 02, 2011, 02:39:15 AM
I am sure you sent me this the other day i was thinking about searching for that mail as I sat to my computer. I appreciate it buddie.
Zane
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: mrclean on July 05, 2011, 03:14:21 AM
Hey check out my most recent work on Don Smith
:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op8HzKc5yao

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: johnnyfg on August 21, 2011, 06:06:25 PM
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Article:Free_Electric_Energy_in_Theory_and_Practice (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Article:Free_Electric_Energy_in_Theory_and_Practice)
That page, and those it links to have many interesting things.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: a.king21 on August 21, 2011, 06:42:55 PM
Hi, mrclean
The only way to really prove this system is to close the loop. Don Smith says if you use a twelve volt battery powering an inverter, his system can both recharge the 12 volt battery and give you surplus power. All you would have to do is to check the 12 volt battery from time to time with the system off. No blown meters - then you would know.

If the twelve volt battery voltage stays the same or increases...... then - JACKPOT.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on August 21, 2011, 06:53:53 PM
Hey check out my most recent work on Don Smith
:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op8HzKc5yao

MrClean,

 First - nice work. Second - sorry buddy but your measuring technique for application is wrong. DMM will NEVER show proper readings when used in cojunction with very high frequency and high current spikes. It will serve to mislead you and others.. Perfect exemple was Naudins kapagen measuring artifacts... while at the end proffesional measuring device was employed all "overunity" dissapeared.. 

 Best of luck
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: NTesla on August 25, 2011, 12:58:10 PM
Like many people here, I have noticed several inconsistencies with Don's information. For example, toward the end of one of the videos he draws a picture of a simplified version where he states that it does not require tuning on account of a 35khz HV module - therefore he leaves out the resonant capacitors. If you look at the first demo with all the parts it has a solid-state NST that is most likely to have an output in the kilohertz range, and NOT the 60hz of a standard iron core NST! This means that the demo setup is probably not a working model (unless I missed other videos?).

An important statement Don makes to keep in mind is:

"most of the things that are in the devices that I demonstrate were put there because people expect to see them, not because they need to be there"

Considering that he does not show the device running  this would support the idea he is showing concepts, not working devices.

As to the reasoning behind this subterfuge, who knows...however to me it is interesting that he presents similar concepts to other Tesla like devices with alleged over-unity characteristics, including the WITTS devices. They all appear to utilize Tesla principles of pulsed HV and resonant induction.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on August 25, 2011, 01:35:00 PM
He has shown what he could.Period.Not a working device.Concepts.These are simple.Resonance at high frequency and high voltage independant on load attached.Period.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on August 25, 2011, 05:49:00 PM
Agreed with both posts above. His presentations are so mysterious.. People ask a question but answer sometimes is not even close to what a question was. One minute he sounds super erogant and foolish next minute he spits out something profound. 1996 tesla symposium. Why he hell he could not keep these 1 kw lights burning for half an hour to dissapate all doubts about batteries in his suitecase.. And the dude who supposibly did the math about that 80 amp output was wrong.. It is obvious that 120v rated 100w bulb running on 60-70 volts will draw less than half rated amperage. Why he did math as they were full power I dont know..  I wonder if he is still alive. Would love to pay a visit.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: johnnyfg on August 25, 2011, 08:13:27 PM
I wonder if he is still alive. Would love to pay a visit.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/radiant_energy/message/7600 (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/radiant_energy/message/7600)
Don passed away last year, 2010, three days before Thanksgiving.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: johnnyfg on August 25, 2011, 11:51:12 PM
Read something interesting in the Don Smith files at yahoogroup: Radiant Energy,
called: "Don Smith's emails on Schematic Corrections.txt". Ie, comments from himself regarding his schematics.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/radiant_energy/files/Donald%20L.%20Smith/Ambient%20Energy%20Device/ (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/radiant_energy/files/Donald%20L.%20Smith/Ambient%20Energy%20Device/)
"... The plasma tube device dipole with the capacitor plates at right angle get's greater than 65,000 times the input. The energy has to be already there to be seen.
Special Interest try to discredit this type of observation.
Since this is energy from the ambient, is high frequency, use a diode bridge with the
negative plate as an open circuit. The capacitor transformer opens the door to an
endless source of useful energy. I successfully built the device here described ..."

Seems very interesting ... open circuit capacitor ... hmm ... that would be tricky to simulate in LTSpice IV ...

Also in same documents you find big changes in his public schematics ... which seems very interesting to test. For example the whole L1/L2 problems gone. Problem how to convert voltage into amperage, solved ...
If info is usable, of course.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: NTesla on November 09, 2011, 04:35:47 PM
I have recently attempted to replicate his "Resonant Induction Energy transfer" device, as shown in some of his videos and documented at FreeEnergyInventions.com (that link may no longer exist).

No over-unity was detected.

My replication was close to IDENTICAL to the design shown in the video. I also tried various options including using a spark gap (SG) with varying gap size, gas arrestors (as shown in his video), different size capacitors, variable primary coil windings for resonance, and various input voltages and frequencies. In addition, different types of wire was experimented with, both on the primary and secondary coils - from plain enameled magnet wire, to HV insulated multi-strand cable. The secondary coil I generally used is identical to the one shown in the videos.

His use of gas arrestors instead of a variable SG is actually detrimental because the relatively tiny gap prevents a resonant charge build up on the capacitor feeding the coil.

The fact that he NEVER (at least to my knowledge) demonstrated a working device is telling.

I am close to 100% sure that this device cannot exhibit over-unity and therefore why would one contemplate his other devices given the erroneous nature of this device? There is nothing exotic or unusual about the circuit - it is essentially a Tesla coil setup with a lower voltage secondary circuit that stores the inductive charge in storage capacitors instead of a surface area toroid. Most people who have done any serious Tesla coil experiments will know that the secondary cannot provide over-unity.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: a.king21 on November 09, 2011, 11:55:34 PM
Hi, Mr provocative name :D
Zilano page 569 on the Kapanadze forum claims to have replicated Don Smith on the Energetic Forum.
As she's posting here, try and see if she will help. She says Don kept a couple of things secret. One is that the primary and secondary coils are REVERSED. So you might try that, it ought to be simple enough. The other thing which may let you down is the output transformer. Most people
use a microwave transformer in reverse, forgetting that the iron core saturates above about 100 Hz or so. I suspect the secret is in the windings, and I'm still learning. Try caduceus on output.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: NTesla on November 10, 2011, 12:31:50 AM
Hi, Mr provocative name :D
Zilano page 569 on the Kapanadze forum claims to have replicated Don Smith on the Energetic Forum.
As she's posting here, try and see if she will help. She says Don kept a couple of things secret. One is that the primary and secondary coils are REVERSED. So you might try that, it ought to be simple enough. The other thing which may let you down is the output transformer. Most people
use a microwave transformer in reverse, forgetting that the iron core saturates above about 100 Hz or so. I suspect the secret is in the windings, and I'm still learning. Try caduceus on output.

Do you have a link? Does Zilano have any pictures or video backing up her claims?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on November 10, 2011, 12:43:05 AM
NTesla,

Hey buddy. Nice to see you working with Don Smith device. I also have a complete system. I have managed to drive it with ~60khz 1.5-2KV sparks and have good earth grounding but I got nothing too. I did not even suceed in resonating primary due to severe impedance mismatch between HV power supply and primary tank LC. Could you post some pictures of your setup? You can find mine @ overunityresearch(dot)com under my bench. I think I need much lower impedance power supply... I also have 4 coils to choose from - 2 right hand and other 2 have left hand turns. I can make any combo out of them. Still got nothing so far.

Minde 

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magluvin on November 10, 2011, 03:30:39 AM
Hey Minde and NTesla

Your secondary, is it 2 coils connected in the middle, 1 wound clock wise and the other wound counter clockwise?

This is something some or even most any not recognize in some of the drawings or diagrams out there. And Im thinking it is important.  ;]

Mags
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on November 10, 2011, 05:04:21 AM
I have tried both ways. Polarity reverses by 180 degree of course on one of them. No luck.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magluvin on November 10, 2011, 05:15:37 AM
Hey Minde

Ok cool.  Maybe try higher input voltage.

Grumpy at OUR.com had told me once that the input needs to be higher than 2kv..  Maybe that is an issue.

Do you have a diagram of the circuit you used?

I read a pdf that had shown a Smith circuit, but the author of the pdf he thought the circuit wasnt correct("in his mind").  I also questioned where the spark gap was in the circuit. But would like to see what you used.

Any pics?  ;]

Mags
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: NTesla on November 10, 2011, 05:17:38 AM
NTesla,

Hey buddy. Nice to see you working with Don Smith device. I also have a complete system. I have managed to drive it with ~60khz 1.5-2KV sparks and have good earth grounding but I got nothing too. I did not even suceed in resonating primary due to severe impedance mismatch between HV power supply and primary tank LC. Could you post some pictures of your setup? You can find mine @ overunityresearch(dot)com under my bench. I think I need much lower impedance power supply... I also have 4 coils to choose from - 2 right hand and other 2 have left hand turns. I can make any combo out of them. Still got nothing so far.

Minde

Can you please provide a link on that web site - I can't find what you are talking about.  :)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: NTesla on November 10, 2011, 05:24:46 AM
Hey Minde and NTesla

Your secondary, is it 2 coils connected in the middle, 1 wound clock wise and the other wound counter clockwise?

This is something some or even most any not recognize in some of the drawings or diagrams out there. And Im thinking it is important.  ;]

Mags

The first secondary coil I used is the one shown in the photos/video: Barker-Williamson 10" x 3" 40 turn tinned copper coil with 4 turns removed from the middle (http://www.bwantennas.com/coils/aduxlex.htm).
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: NTesla on November 10, 2011, 05:47:16 AM
Here is my initial setup:
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magluvin on November 10, 2011, 05:51:20 AM
Hey NTesla

Here is a link to a doc I found(couldnt remember where I found it, and just did a search for the title, (The file is to large to post) that tends to show(a bit cryptically) 2 coils, CW and CCW. Start at page 4.

This was the first I have seen of an explanation for opposing wound coils on the same core. Im working on a toroid version(Gotoluc's self running coil), as it gives different ways to use as compared to Luc's version.

Maybe it will be helpful here.  ;]

Mags

Sorry, here is the link   http://www.scribd.com/doc/48568155/FREE-ENERGY-1
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magluvin on November 10, 2011, 05:52:57 AM
Had to edit the above post to include the link I forgot.  ;]

Mags
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: NTesla on November 10, 2011, 06:58:29 AM
Hey NTesla

Here is a link to a doc I found(couldnt remember where I found it, and just did a search for the title, (The file is to large to post) that tends to show(a bit cryptically) 2 coils, CW and CCW. Start at page 4.

This was the first I have seen of an explanation for opposing wound coils on the same core. Im working on a toroid version(Gotoluc's self running coil), as it gives different ways to use as compared to Luc's version.

Maybe it will be helpful here.  ;]

Mags

Sorry, here is the link   http://www.scribd.com/doc/48568155/FREE-ENERGY-1

Nice! Thanks  :)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: FatBird on November 10, 2011, 04:09:15 PM
NTesla,

The spark gap needs to be in series.  Don's schematic shows it in parallel,
but that is wrong.

Incidentally, there appears to be MORE problems with Don's schematic because
as far as I know NOBODY has ever made a working unit.

If anybody does have a working unit, PLEASE post the details.  Thank you.


.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on November 10, 2011, 04:14:01 PM
NTesla,

The spark gap needs to be in series.  Don's schematic shows it in parallel,
but that is wrong.

Incidentally, there appears to be MORE problems with Don's schematic because
as far as I know NOBODY has ever made a working unit.


.

Come on man. You dont know that. How can you state it?...
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: NTesla on November 10, 2011, 06:35:44 PM
The spark gap needs to be in series.  Don's schematic shows it in parallel,
but that is wrong.
The schematics I have seen show a primary SG 'in series' because it is acting as a switch per a Tesla coil primary input.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magluvin on November 10, 2011, 06:37:36 PM
In the doc above, I dont see the caps( laeft side near neon transformer)  that are shown in Dons pic above. I see the spark gap in the pic, a small enclosed capsule(forget the name at the moment) connected to the neon transformer.

Also in the pic, it does look like the sec coils are wound the same direction, cant tell for sure at this angle.

What I get from the doc file is that when the primary fires, the magnetic fields of each sec coil are inline, not opposing, but, if the sec coils were oppositely wound, and connected in the middle, each sec would have the same polarity charge at the far ends in reference to the middle where they are connected. This seems to be an unusual situation, no?

So what might be the interaction of electrical field (outside the coils, in the air) between the 2 coils in this situation. In the doc file, there seems to be some effect between the 2. 

I dunno yet. But looking into it.  ;]

You guys are the first I have known to try Dons setup.  Would love to see them.  ;]

Mags
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Qwert on November 10, 2011, 07:39:00 PM
Sorry, here is the link   http://www.scribd.com/doc/48568155/FREE-ENERGY-1
Since unavailable otherwise, I've just paid for it (one time $5.00) and it's in my possession right now. Here I share it:
https://rapidshare.com/files/2349454651/52148599-kapanadze.pdf
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on November 11, 2011, 12:56:03 AM
By reversing one of the coils winding direction sine wave goes:    positive-negative-positive    OR     negative-positive-negative.
Both coils in same direction sine wave goes:                               negative-zero(?)-positive     OR     positive-zero(?)-negative
I will make some more pics and post. Btw here is my bench link:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=67.0

Thanks guys for that link. Pretty interesting. Who made it up?

Minde

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magluvin on November 11, 2011, 04:05:23 AM
Here is my initial setup:

NT, well dang, looks like you went through a lot of trouble getting all that  on the table.  ;]  Looks great..    What diagram did you follow?  Seems there are a few out there.

What is the output of your neon transformer? Is it the same as Dons? 2 outs and a common ground( reference ) Man you got the big can caps and all.  Serious.  ;]

Minde,  I dont know who wrote it.  I found it on Emule I believe, then searched for the title and there it was again.

At least it may give us some other ideas to fiddle with if any of Dons diagrams dont add up. Hopefully it gives some things to understand.  Looks like a lot of work put into the doc.

My original doc is in black and white. The link has some color pics, so I know I didnt get it there. But all the same stuff.

Tesla used magnets in the spark gap to blow it out before anything came back through.  Unidirectional, like a diode. So maybe we dont have to use mags these days, since diodes are around.

Dons has diodes on the terminal strip with the rectangular caps. They may be correct in the schematics shown.
His neon transformer seems to be a dual output with a common ground, where the spark gap device is connected.

Is there any close ups of the terminal strip with caps and
diodes?

Mags


Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magluvin on November 11, 2011, 04:22:42 AM
By reversing one of the coils winding direction sine wave goes:    positive-negative-positive    OR     negative-positive-negative.
Both coils in same direction sine wave goes:                               negative-zero(?)-positive     OR     positive-zero(?)-negative
I will make some more pics and post. Btw here is my bench link:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=67.0

Thanks guys for that link. Pretty interesting. Who made it up?

Minde

Just saw your bench Minde..   Very nice also.  ;]
Free caps?  Nice.  ;]   I need caps.  hehe.  Ill get them.

I have been on and off lately( on the bench).  Wish I had more time than I have to fiddle.  Last year I was out of work for near 6 mo. and was on fire with builds. My work really tires me. Corvette restorations. I do all interior( no sewing), electrical and tear down and rebuild, bumpers, lights, a/c heat, windows, door mechs, details, perfection.
But the heat is killin me. Tires me out.

Its getting cooler out(S. FL)

Nice work guys.  ;]

Ill show what im getting into with the toroid this weekend.

Mags
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magluvin on November 11, 2011, 04:32:57 AM
Was looking at both of you guys pics again.  Looks like you both have only the first part of the circuit to the secondary caps, and not the second conversion.

So, are you both saying that your not getting output to the secondary caps?

Minde, no spark gap?  NT, are you using the same type of spark device( I have to look them up again) Don used? There were many different ones(spec wise).

Mags
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on November 11, 2011, 05:01:56 AM
Here is latest setup. HV source and large collector caps are removed. I have tried parallel and series spark gaps and 120VDC to 4000VDC voltages.

Once again I must emphasize:  as of yet have never reached any resonance in primary nor in secondary when pulsing device with HV sparks. Also not sure about spark quality.. I dont think it has time to quench.. maybe it does. Not sure.

Minde
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: NTesla on November 11, 2011, 05:20:01 AM
What diagram did you follow?
Circuit diagram below - I was unaware of any others at the time I built my replication. The picture shows the bottom diode coming from the NST in the wrong direction - in fact you can do without the second diode. That part of the circuit is bog standard Tesla coil primary anyway.

The solid state NST is a 9KV @ 35ma (around 25-30Khz if I remember correctly), though I ran it about 50-70% power via the variac (as per Don's notes).

Incidentally, I tried using a non-solid-state 60hz NST but performance was better with the solid state (presumably because of the higher frequency).
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magluvin on November 11, 2011, 05:21:38 AM
Looks sweet.  ;]

I think that the spark might be a key element.

Don I believe said that the variac adjusted the input to the neon transformer. With a preset spark gap, adjusting the input to the neon trans. will change the NT ouput, of which will set the timing of when the spark happens (freq of spark discharge)

So if this has been done to no success, then next would be to adjust the spark gap to alter the freq range then readjust the variac again.

So if you know what the possible res freq of the LC is, I would experiment on the timing of the spark (variac and spark gap spacing).  Sound good?   ;]

Mags
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: NTesla on November 11, 2011, 05:28:58 AM
Was looking at both of you guys pics again.  Looks like you both have only the first part of the circuit to the secondary caps, and not the second conversion.

So, are you both saying that your not getting output to the secondary caps?

Tested secondary output with a halogen lightbulb and unsuccessfully attempted to use a MOT (both primary and secondary) i.e I know the schematic works in terms of output on the secondary. I tried with fully rectified output, smoother cap etc.

The picture I posted shows initial tests with a HV probe (i.e no load), however without a load and a larger spark gap I ended up blowing my HV diodes on the secondary with a spectacular bang! ;D because of course I was charging the secondary 'tank' caps without any load. Due to their capacity I used 1MOhm bleeder resistors.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: NTesla on November 11, 2011, 05:37:04 AM
Here is latest setup.
Wow! That looks impressive :o - are those the same caps Don used? And the same wire?

I tried to buy the same caps as Don used but could not find them with the exception of the secondary resonant cap which interestingly could not handle the voltage so I ended up using a 20KV equivalent.

I also could not find the wire he was using so ended up buying some thinner 17AWG multi-strand HV wire rated for
20KVDC.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magluvin on November 11, 2011, 05:41:39 AM
My previous post was in reference to Mindes pic  ;]

NT
I see the diode issue after the NT.  Are you getting anything into those large secondary caps? 

Interesting on the resistors at the output. Do they get hot?

Maybe some of what is shown in the doc file as to what you could try after the big caps. Use a spark gap to discharge into a step down transformer.

Using resistors to step down thousands of volts down to 12 or 24v probably reduces your current availability to the inverter quite a bit.  Just my opinion so far.  ;]

The doc shows your method and just above it as I just suggested.  Maybe the resistor way is more for other types of loads.

Im interested how much and how fast those large sec caps charge up.   ;]

Mags
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: a.king21 on November 11, 2011, 12:04:37 PM
qwert:
Thanks for the link. I've downloaded the file. Studying it..... ???
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on November 11, 2011, 12:39:19 PM
Read something interesting in the Don Smith files at yahoogroup: Radiant Energy,
called: "Don Smith's emails on Schematic Corrections.txt". Ie, comments from himself regarding his schematics.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/radiant_energy/files/Donald%20L.%20Smith/Ambient%20Energy%20Device/ (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/radiant_energy/files/Donald%20L.%20Smith/Ambient%20Energy%20Device/)
"... The plasma tube device dipole with the capacitor plates at right angle get's greater than 65,000 times the input. The energy has to be already there to be seen.
Special Interest try to discredit this type of observation.
Since this is energy from the ambient, is high frequency, use a diode bridge with the
negative plate as an open circuit. The capacitor transformer opens the door to an
endless source of useful energy. I successfully built the device here described ..."

Seems very interesting ... open circuit capacitor ... hmm ... that would be tricky to simulate in LTSpice IV ...

Also in same documents you find big changes in his public schematics ... which seems very interesting to test. For example the whole L1/L2 problems gone. Problem how to convert voltage into amperage, solved ...
If info is usable, of course.


Put BIG attention to this message !  :o
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: NTesla on November 11, 2011, 08:16:27 PM
My previous post was in reference to Mindes pic  ;]

NT
I see the diode issue after the NT.  Are you getting anything into those large secondary caps? 

Interesting on the resistors at the output. Do they get hot?

Maybe some of what is shown in the doc file as to what you could try after the big caps. Use a spark gap to discharge into a step down transformer.

Using resistors to step down thousands of volts down to 12 or 24v probably reduces your current availability to the inverter quite a bit.  Just my opinion so far.  ;]

The doc shows your method and just above it as I just suggested.  Maybe the resistor way is more for other types of loads.

Im interested how much and how fast those large sec caps charge up.   ;]

Mags

Based on the halogen bulb lighting and a few experiments with resistors on the output for voltage division it was obvious from simple observation that the setup does not produce much energy and is definitely not over-unity. I did not try a SG on the secondary.

One could argue that the schematic is in-complete and therefore it won't work as intended, however my issue is that the schematic matches the video of the device Don demonstrates (but never runs) and therefore if it doesn't work this reduces his credibility near to zero in my opinion.

Why would someone show you an 'over-unity' device they built WITHOUT demonstrating it? The conspiratory minded would argue that because he would be shut down if the devices was the real deal. Maybe that's true however he could have simply run it with a load and no measurement equipment visible!

 Unless someone can demonstrate a working replication with unexpected high output levels it is not worth pursuing a dead end.

I have grown tired of over-unity claims that have ZERO evidence, and the money and effort required to replicate them could be better spent on other things.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magluvin on November 12, 2011, 01:51:51 AM
Ok, I did a remake of what I think might help.  ;]  Maybe

I just edited the original NTesla pic above.

First, in the blue square, this is the way I see using the 2 phase, dual output neon transformer in Dons pics. From what I have read about it.

In the original Ntesla drawing(included below), I see only half wave rectification. I also corrected the the lower diode after the NST, as Ntesla said.  ;]   So for the unique NST used by Don, I made corrections necessary to provide full wave the the cap. Using half wave will reduce the charging time by half.

In the blue square I also included a gnd(the gnd screw on the side of Dons NST)  In the red square, picture the sec as if it were the sec from the NST and the gnd(center tap L2), and we have full wave out to the cap after the sec.

Or, in the yellow square, if the turns of the 2 halves are not wound in the same direction, Top CW bottom CCW, then both coils will send charge to the cap(in the red square) at the same time in half wave, but more current, and the center tap is the common.

Not saying the NST has opposing winds on its sec.  ;] I dont know, but if it did, it would also be a half wave situation, but I dont see why it would be opposing winds, its not common.

As you can see my addition of a transformer(just a square ;]) that is a step down.  Also added a second spark gap(green square).

Now, 8000v is a lot. And if discharged into the input of the step down transformer, there should be a good output on the other side. 

I think that if the second spark gap were set to fire at near 60hz, we might be there. Of course the 8000v caps uf value may need adjustment along with the spark gap width will determine the spark timing.  :]

Considering the nice builds you guys have, it might be worth a try, with most likely the biggest expense being the step down transformer and adding a spark gap.   ;]

Ok, im going to work on my drive circuit for my toroid opposing coils setup.  ;]

Mags

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magluvin on November 12, 2011, 03:50:52 AM
Was thinking, in my mod above, if we lose the inverter, and just charge the input battery.

Do you guys know the power that your NST uses from input?

Mags
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Qwert on November 12, 2011, 02:16:47 PM
Hi.
If you, guys are aware of this, just tell me and I'll delete it just to preserve the space.
Tom Bearden on his website has a page about a project "Minuteman".
http://www.cheniere.org/misc/minuteman.htm   
It mentions three patents in the category of Amplifiers, all of them available on Internet. I think they're worth to see.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3239771.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3239772.html
http://www.google.de/patents/about?id=duMyAAAAEBAJ
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magluvin on November 16, 2011, 05:33:29 AM
This is a good video example of 2 opposing coils.  ;]
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7QiI8p1gi4
 
 Mags
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on November 17, 2011, 01:50:50 AM
yah.. looks like asymetric transformer
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magluvin on November 17, 2011, 03:14:44 AM
Hey Minde

Im not really looking at it as a transformer. To me its more like, a special situation.

I have found that they are used in power supplies, on the input lines, where each winding is used as a throughput to "reduce" noise to the source from the switching in the supply.

Im trying some different ideas.

Mags
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magnethos on January 17, 2012, 05:21:54 PM
I've seen more than 10 times all the videos of Don Smith, including plans and books.
The question I've is I cannot determine where is connected the sparkgap. From the neon tube transformer I see 3 wires. The positive, the negative and other that is connected to the sparkgap.
The question is I don't know where or how, the spark is connected to the neon transformer.

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: a.king21 on January 17, 2012, 05:42:47 PM
Without the schematic it is difficult. From my knowledge it is possibly to act as a lightning arrestor, to prevent damage to the NST. In that case it would be connected to earth. IE a real earth rod in the ground. :)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magnethos on January 17, 2012, 06:25:17 PM
It's a possibility connect that end to the ground. But if not, what is the other possibility?
I have never had a neon sign transformer at hand so I don't know how they work.
The next schematic is the thing I see in his devices.


I've been reading more information from other websites and I can read that he uses a ground rod. But Smith also says in a video that his generators are used too in airplanes in Japan. So... in a jet no ground connection is possible.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: a.king21 on January 17, 2012, 07:35:10 PM
You can use a virtual ground. Tesla wrote in one publication that the negative terminal of a car battery was a good substitute. With cold electricity, the components condition over time. The earth sets up a standing wave which is always in perfect resonance with the device. Over time the energy increases. So the use in a plane is no clue I'm aftraid.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magnethos on January 17, 2012, 07:48:08 PM
Well, it can makes sense. But the configuration is VERY unusual.


If anyone else knows any valuable information about the question. Post it.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: a.king21 on January 17, 2012, 08:21:05 PM
I'm glad you posted this picture. If you have any other close ups I would appreciate it. If you look closely at the neon sign transformer (NST) you'll see the terminal you talk about on the outside. The NST puts out many thousands of volts, so the outside terminal can only be an earth ground for legal and safety reasons. So my initial understanding is correct.
Kapanadze uses a similar system in his akvarium (aquarium) video. When the device blows a transistor(?) towards the end of the video the spark gap goes berserk. It is there to save components in the event of component failure or overload.
Having said that, this is an overunity game, so Don Smith may have found another use, and we can never be certain until we've replicated. I also would welcome other suggestions.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magnethos on January 17, 2012, 08:40:39 PM
I can see 2 terminals in the nst box. At left, small golden balls. At the left too, like a switch.
Are you refering to those connections?
I've a DVD were you can see the device with much more better details. But I cannot upload it because the DVD reader of my laptop doesn't read DVD because it's broken. But the video is not in the net yet.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: gyulasun on January 17, 2012, 09:59:14 PM
I've seen more than 10 times all the videos of Don Smith, including plans and books.
The question I've is I cannot determine where is connected the sparkgap. From the neon tube transformer I see 3 wires. The positive, the negative and other that is connected to the sparkgap.
The question is I don't know where or how, the spark is connected to the neon transformer.

Hi Magnetos,

I modified your picture and drew a red arrow where the spark gap I strongly suspect is.  It is called encapsulated spark gap, filled with certain noble gas (maybe argon) and manufactured for different voltages where to fire at.  Patrick Kelly included it in his collections, see the last paragraph at the bottom of Page 83 and a picture of such an encapsulated spark gap on top of Page 84 of this PDF file:
http://www.rexresearch.com/smithdon/DonSmith.pdf (http://www.rexresearch.com/smithdon/DonSmith.pdf) 

rgds,  Gyula

Edit:  A schematic is included on Page 82.   ;)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on January 18, 2012, 12:40:40 AM
Gentelman,
   That particular Bertonee NST was manifactured WITH a center ground tap - just like all bulky non swithing NSTs have(the big ones).
However appeareantly no other company is manifacturing switching center tapped NSTs for whatever the reason.. (??? makes me wonder why)
 NST ground was connected to Earth ground (right at NST terminal) and then to the primary LC tank ground via a spark gap arrestor. I have a switching HV traffo from amazing1 driven by h-bridge and center taps grounded. No lucky for me :) Primary LC has very high impedance to volts because LC is very capacitive (wich means will take amps but will resist volts) so I have no chance of getting my primary LC resonating from this NST because of severe impedance mismatch....
For exemple my NST has impedance of 10K ohms+ @ ~50Khz while its trying to feed a primary LC that has impedance of less than 10 ohm...    10000 ohm VS 10 ohm - impedance mismatch will not allow any energy transfer - I simply cannot make my NST draw more than 1 amp.. Then I took simple LC having impedance of approx 6000 ohms @ 50khz and sure enough -  NST will draw up to 4 amps - because there is efficient energy transfer to LC because of somewhat matched impedance) and by feeding 800 VDC I could get it to resonate up to 7000 volts p-p and cant allow any more because It would exceed my HV probe limits.
Just a short insight from my experience. Hope it helps.
Minde
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: h2ocommuter on January 18, 2012, 05:23:03 AM
Good eve all...  putting my best foot forward I would suggest the looped red wire for L-1 is as suggested a virtual ground "type", Not founded as a node but as a center-tapped in essence ground. however (This may very well be Grounded by the plug though).  Not be belabor the point though, I see this as the direction of flow of the circuit.....
We are grounding one side of the circuit with through which we pulse the two capacitors via the HV diodes; "the hot side" Then feeding the L-1 red wire ????????    y the lightning arrester ou get the idea! :-\  shrinking ok back again? what was that?
Which in turn completes the loop. 
Draw this on paper just as it is in the pictures....!  This to me looks like an LC circuit as long as the frequency stays above 20Kz this should resonate if you get the numbers right.


I haven't built mine yet, this is how I see it though.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magnethos on January 18, 2012, 03:21:22 PM
@minde4000
I'm still waiting an answer for the message I sent you yesterday. I want to know the name of the company that builds the yellow capacitors. In the picture I can read Ctision or something similar. It's not enough clear.
About the NS Transformer, I've read some information about to prevent the use of classic models. In the pdf that gyulasun posted here (http://www.rexresearch.com/smithdon/DonSmith.pdf (http://www.rexresearch.com/smithdon/DonSmith.pdf)), if you read the end of page 83 and the beginning of the 84, you can see some recomendations about not using comercial NS transformers and the author also recommends to build your own one. This recommendation, and also your own one about the center ground tap implies that the best option is to build our transformer. In amazon or other online library anyone can find a series of books called "... for the evil genius". There are about 15 different books of that serie. In one of them there are schematics to build your own high voltage high frequency power source.


@h20commuter
As you say this is an LC circuit. Refering to H.Torres you can read and we know that "when the transformer is in resonance, the impedance is zero". So adjusting the numbers right, you'll have a LC circuit.
Where I've still doubt is in the 2 AC connections that are in the output of the NST. Each of those 2 wires has 1 diode. Then, those 2 wires becomes one  ??? ?
In the picture that I've attached you've some similarities with other non usual configurations coming from other circuits different to Don Smith's one.
Someone with more electrical experience maybe can obtain some ideas while viewing the circuits.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: h2ocommuter on January 18, 2012, 06:00:23 PM
This is the driver circuit of the operation here is how I get it.  This is the part that starts the ball game off.
I have not yet built this circuit.
I simply see it as an inductance and capacitance circuit that is grounded causing a closed circuit that may resonate.
The capacitance is the tank that will set the speed of oscillation when the inductance is matched to this capacitance over 20 khz it will resonate at very low cost of consumption.
"No resistance"


Testing and discovery are the only ways to be sure..

Zane

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on January 18, 2012, 06:23:54 PM
@h2ocommuter
Do you read what you type..  because I dont understand most of your posts... a little out there... and hows spark gap will affect oscillation speed? It could affect time at what LC will be charged by DC source before spark breakdown occur but not oscillation speed.... based on this I think you might need to read and learn more before you post  8)
@Magnethos
Custom electronics Inc. NY I believe. Great mica caps. Not cheap.
Minde
 
 
Title: Doesn't get it
Post by: h2ocommuter on January 18, 2012, 07:07:56 PM
I do my best Minde4000 to help and be clear in what I am saying.



Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on January 18, 2012, 08:15:15 PM
Schematic seems correct.Spark gap to ground. I think in this situation frequency of NST must be harmonic of resonant circuit or it will damp oscillation in LC.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on January 18, 2012, 08:28:06 PM
Schematic seems correct.Spark gap to ground. I think in this situation frequency of NST must be harmonic of resonant circuit or it will damp oscillation in LC.

Correct.
 
Minde
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magnethos on January 19, 2012, 04:37:26 PM
Mr. Smith says that you can get all the components in any shop, but he says that there are 2 that you cannot get everywhere.
The first ones are the capacitors used just after the NST. I've localized them.
The second ones are 4 high voltage diodes that are just after the L2 coil. Anyone knows any number indentification of those caps or where to get one like them?
Smith also used 2 high voltage diodes just with the yellow caps, that seem to be the same model as the mentioned above. I'm not sure about if the 6 are the same kind of diodes, but in the video he only says that the 4 mentioned are are the difference. Any information about all this?
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on January 19, 2012, 10:41:42 PM
Mr. Smith says that you can get all the components in any shop, but he says that there are 2 that you cannot get everywhere.
The first ones are the capacitors used just after the NST. I've localized them.
The second ones are 4 high voltage diodes that are just after the L2 coil. Anyone knows any number indentification of those caps or where to get one like them?
Smith also used 2 high voltage diodes just with the yellow caps, that seem to be the same model as the mentioned above. I'm not sure about if the 6 are the same kind of diodes, but in the video he only says that the 4 mentioned are are the difference. Any information about all this?

What about those capacitors ? are they special ? In what sense ? I heard they were custom run.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: gyulasun on January 19, 2012, 11:31:05 PM
Mr. Smith says that you can get all the components in any shop, but he says that there are 2 that you cannot get everywhere.
The first ones are the capacitors used just after the NST. I've localized them.
The second ones are 4 high voltage diodes that are just after the L2 coil. Anyone knows any number indentification of those caps or where to get one like them?
Smith also used 2 high voltage diodes just with the yellow caps, that seem to be the same model as the mentioned above. I'm not sure about if the 6 are the same kind of diodes, but in the video he only says that the 4 mentioned are are the difference. Any information about all this?

hi Magnetos,

Here are two links on high voltage and diode / diode bridge and capacitor source:

a manufacturer:
http://www.deantechnology.com/pg_home/home.aspx (http://www.deantechnology.com/pg_home/home.aspx)

a distributor, selection is made on high voltage capacitors in descending order, starting from 16,000V, copy and paste the link below fully into your browser because the last part of the link below is truncated:
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/searchresults.aspx?dsNav=Ny:False,Ns:Voltage%2c+Rating (http://www.alliedelec.com/search/searchresults.aspx?dsNav=Ny:False,Ns:Voltage%2c+Rating)|101|-1|,N:107-4294887054 

Surely there are other sources too, I did a small random search. 

The capacitor shown in the photo you uploded in the previous page:  .1uF  +/-10% 4000WVDC was manufactured in the 2nd week of 1977... this is what the last line shows: 7702 

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Magnethos on January 21, 2012, 02:08:45 PM
forest
I don't know if they've something special. The yellow caps are 4000 WVDC 0.1 uF each one (there are 2). I think they're made of mica (not sure).
About the high voltage diodes I've no information. But he says that you cannot buy them everywhere. Well, the video is from the 1990's, so maybe in that time you cannot buy them everywhere but now... who knows.
I don't know why he says that you cannot buy them everywhere. The caps are made by a company that build electronic components for the military (and other) industry.
This cap is rated the same as Don Smith's ones. http://www.apexelectronic.com/FC2-W-4A (http://www.apexelectronic.com/FC2-W-4A)
but I don't know if they Smith's ones has some advantage or not.


gyula
What means WVDC? I'm used to see 4000 Volts DC but... WVDC? You know if the caps are special made?


Quote
update
Yes, the caps are of mica.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: gyulasun on January 21, 2012, 04:03:00 PM
WVDC means Working DC Voltage,   see the very bottom of this link for explanation:
http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/tech-center/glossary.aspx (http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/tech-center/glossary.aspx)

I do not think these capacitors are special made.  Here is one of the better capacitor manufacturers, the Cornell Dubilier,  CDE for short,  This is their website:  http://www.cde.com/ (http://www.cde.com/)   with some  high voltage products: http://www.cde.com/catalog/hvolt/ (http://www.cde.com/catalog/hvolt/) 

They have a CMR series product (the first line on the yellow cap starts with CMR), see this:
http://www.cde.com/catalogs/CMR.pdf    You may get in contact with them whether they manufactured CMR 1A 402104K type back in 1977 and what they recommend nowadays....   but again, I do not think this cap is a special made one. 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on January 22, 2012, 01:26:00 AM
Don Smith had caps made at one of these vendors:
 
1. Custom Electronics - http://www.customelec.com/ (http://www.customelec.com/)
2. Cornell Dubilier      - http://www.cde.com/ (http://www.cde.com/)
 
Good luck
 
Minde
 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: luishan on March 07, 2012, 06:04:03 AM
I think this is last lecture of Don Smith Device concept.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMKlmnsmMgk&feature=colike


Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Thestone on June 17, 2012, 10:03:28 AM
I been reading Don Smith all over the place in the internet, but the one thing I cant find is a video of a working unit, not the ones that he shows, that are not connected to anything, but a unit that is connected and generating real electricity...

Can some one help and point to a video of a working unit.

Thanks.
TheStone.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: a.king21 on June 17, 2012, 03:24:10 PM
I been reading Don Smith all over the place in the internet, but the one thing I cant find is a video of a working unit, not the ones that he shows, that are not connected to anything, but a unit that is connected and generating real electricity...

Can some one help and point to a video of a working unit.

Thanks.
TheStone.

Tariel Kapanadze has replicated.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Thestone on June 17, 2012, 06:10:34 PM

Tariel Kapanadze has replicated.

Thanks for your post, but I thought that the Tariel's original device based on the Nikola Tesla fuelless generator...

The Stone
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: a.king21 on June 17, 2012, 07:04:38 PM
Thanks for your post, but I thought that the Tariel's original device based on the Nikola Tesla fuelless generator...

The Stone
Both use the same principle: Generate a high voltage  then step down through a resonant transformer.
The main difference is that Kapanadze loops (regeneration). Don Smith does not disclose.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Thestone on June 17, 2012, 08:15:39 PM
Both use the same principle: Generate a high voltage  then step down through a resonant transformer.
The main difference is that Kapanadze loops (regeneration). Don Smith does not disclose.
Hi a.king21
I see, I been reading already  :) , do you have a good source of Kapanadse schematics and information, as I understand there is really not much on it.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: a.king21 on June 17, 2012, 08:43:16 PM
Hi a.king21
I see, I been reading already  :) , do you have a good source of Kapanadse schematics and information, as I understand there is really not much on it.

Thanks.
http://www.overunity.com/7679/selfrunning-free-energy-devices-up-to-5-kw-from-tariel-kapanadze/new/topicseen/#new (http://www.overunity.com/7679/selfrunning-free-energy-devices-up-to-5-kw-from-tariel-kapanadze/new/topicseen/#new)
 
800 pages and rising.. and we still haven't figured it out lol.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on June 17, 2012, 10:24:01 PM
Both Kapanadze and  Don Smith are the same concepts ,there is no other way...just interesting variations...
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on June 17, 2012, 10:25:19 PM
http://www.overunity.com/7679/selfrunning-free-energy-devices-up-to-5-kw-from-tariel-kapanadze/new/topicseen/#new (http://www.overunity.com/7679/selfrunning-free-energy-devices-up-to-5-kw-from-tariel-kapanadze/new/topicseen/#new)
 
800 pages and rising.. and we still haven't figured it out lol.

well, don't speak for  all  :o
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on June 17, 2012, 10:39:14 PM
Well have you forest? Or you know anyone who has? Please share  :P
I always tought about combining series and parallel resonances with 2 different coils: one is multiplying magnetic field another electric field. Put them both on a same core drive both so they always resonate in phase to each other - parallel LC magnetic peeks in phase with series LC electric peaks and wind a third much smaller collector/extractor coil to use that strong agitated field... :) one of the million ideas...
Minde
 
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on June 17, 2012, 11:07:26 PM
Well have you forest? Or you know anyone who has? Please share  :P
I always tought about combining series and parallel resonances with 2 different coils: one is multiplying magnetic field another electric field. Put them both on a same core drive both so they always resonate in phase to each other - parallel LC magnetic peeks in phase with series LC electric peaks and wind a third much smaller collector/extractor coil to use that strong agitated field... :) one of the million ideas...
Minde

Yeah, ideas are against us. Life is too short to test all of them  ;D No, I have no working unit yet, I wish so, but counting from my personal abilities to build something it will take years he he.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: minde4000 on June 18, 2012, 01:49:23 AM
Why of why Don Smith from time to time was telling such an absurd! Sometimes he seemed to over emphasize stuff by a huge scale there were times when his statements were simply making me laugh out loud!  Like a demo with lights in that tesla symposium he was at - black suit case output - they only achieved 60-70 volts and yet some dude from the crowd was calculating final output (1KW) based on how many and what wattage of lights were on a board - forgetting to mention the clear fact that they were dim with only 50% of rated voltage achieved only half of the voltage! So the maximum draw should have been around 500w only and almost any car battery or two can sustain such 40+ amps @ 12VDC for such a short time period... he was so anxious to shut it down as soon as possible! Why he could not have run it for half and hour or duration of the show? But then who knows.. I wish I was there with my multimeter and scope :)
 However - there also were statements spoken that made me think -  there he is and looks like he knows and understands a thing or two..
 So  I am confused... but did build his stuff anyway.
 
Minde
   
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Thestone on June 18, 2012, 02:28:46 AM
well, don't speak for  all  :o

What are you saying forest???? that YOU have done it, and not sharing ? and now you are saying you havent...???
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Thestone on June 18, 2012, 04:20:44 AM
I found this two videos in the web.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4X5zy0piSg&feature=watch_response

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CSkzA9oPSE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFVCst1bdds&feature=related

The Stone.  :)
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on June 18, 2012, 07:40:20 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbkvXoDfk7g&feature=relmfu  ???
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: verpies on June 18, 2012, 12:43:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbkvXoDfk7g&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbkvXoDfk7g&feature=relmfu)  ???
I watched this video and I don't understand why are you implying that it shows a working OU device.

The Yoke Device (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbeseiPPCeM) was much more convincing - 100W of output after a stimulation with 10W from DDS signal generators. Maybe due to NMR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMR).
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Thestone on June 18, 2012, 05:29:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbkvXoDfk7g&feature=relmfu  ???

It looks like a regular transformer to me... :-\ any 12v power supply can do that with enoght amps with a stepUp transformer 12 > 120

Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: verpies on June 18, 2012, 07:06:07 PM
It looks like a regular transformer to me... :-\ any 12v power supply can do that with enoght amps with a stepUp transformer 12 > 120
No, any transformer cannot do that.  You are confusing Volts with Watts.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: forest on June 18, 2012, 11:05:01 PM
I watched this video and I don't understand why are you implying that it shows a working OU device.

The Yoke Device (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbeseiPPCeM) was much more convincing - 100W of output after a stimulation with 10W from DDS signal generators. Maybe due to NMR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMR).

Now I think you must be joking! What is more convincing : self-running device powering 150W bulb or a mystical device powering 100W bulb with unknown input power incorrectly measured probably ?
You know it is like with kacher circuit : one user posted video when he lit 60W bulb from small kacher from 20V input so what ? Everybody jumped with excitation but I found his comments on russian forum  - there was no OU there, kacher is sucking energy from pwoer source at so high frequency that no common measurement tools can catch it properly (even analog ampermeter probably do not show correct value) - the only  way seems to measure battery depletion over time or run this circuit from precharged big capacitor.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: verpies on June 19, 2012, 09:50:58 AM
Now I think you must be joking! What is more convincing : self-running device powering 150W bulb or a mystical device powering 100W bulb with unknown input power incorrectly measured probably ?
You know it is like with kacher circuit : one user posted video when he lit 60W bulb from small kacher from 20V input so what ? Everybody jumped with excitation but I found his comments on russian forum  - there was no OU there, kacher is sucking energy from power source at so high frequency that no common measurement tools can catch it properly (even analog ammmeter probably do not show correct value) - the only  way seems to measure battery depletion over time or run this circuit from precharged big capacitor.
Yes, a self-running device is always more convincing than badly measured one at 10W/100W In/Out.
However I did not see the SR193 device self-running.

Yes, lighting a 100W incandescent light bulb does not mean 100W dissipated in the bulb without comparing the the bulb's luminosity to the same bulb supplied with known DC.  However video evidence can give some unscientific indication of the light output.

The power input of the Yoke Device was not measured directly. However the DDS signal generators were capable of sourcing maximum of 500mA and 10V which puts a hard limit on their output power.  This is only a 2* 5W limit - not their actual output power (which could have been far less)

I reject the explanation that the Yoke Device is sucking more power out of the DACs in these DDS signal generators than the aforementioned limit.

By the way: Reliable high frequency power measurement can be cheaply made ($10) and up to 1GHz with the  ADL5391 analog multiplier and a similar circuit to the one depicted here (http://danyk.wz.cz/wmetr_en.html).  Every OU researcher should build one.

Supplying energy from a precharged capacitor is a reliable method of measuring energy consumption if capacitors exhibiting the dielectric soak effect are avoided.
Its disadvantage is the inability to measure only the DUT - because many DUTs do not operate on DC and require auxiliary circuits (e.g. oscillators, regulators) that also consume input power.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: gedfire on August 09, 2012, 06:49:31 PM
playing wit plasma globe it is possible to power 4 led lamp (220V 2W) no matter to put it on ground or on aluminium foil.
I have measured frequency between close to 60 - 70 kHz's

Hi Wings,

Did you do any other experiments?

What is your power in and out? Has anyone else replicated this stuff?

Best regards,

Ged
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Google on March 12, 2014, 03:47:48 AM
Hi,

Did anyone had even an iota of success with any of DONs device so far ?

Or he has been making a fool out of public to sell his books and dvd's like other OU merchants out there like  Beardenn and Bedini etc.  ;D ;D ;D

Best,
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Tesluh on September 28, 2016, 04:50:00 AM
Hello, I read this entire thread, as well as others like it on other forums.  I bought a pdf from thesmithgenerator.com on how to build one and it is not complete or nearly as easy as the ad made it sound.  Knowing there are a lot of important details involved for it to do anything let alone produce gobs of free energy led me to buy the pdf.  It is incomplete to say the least and a huge confusing disappointment.

Here are some questions I am looking for the answers to.  If I can get answers I will go and build one of these and share what I learn on this forum.
Does anyone have a source for an nst suitable for this project?  apparently needs to not have gfci, or overload protection, yet have screw terminal in addition to being 9kv 30ma output. I cant find the bertonee used in the photos, or one with similar specs.  if not can anyone speculate how to build a suitable nst from scratch?

I have seen about 5 different schematics, this pdf had two different ones and no clarification which to follow and why.  Does anyone have a schematic that has has a chance of working?

The high voltage diodes in the photos they provide are different than the part number they provide.  What diodes should be used and is there a link anyone can provide?  looks like 7 needed total, one between battery and inverter, two at the ends of the nst and 4 to rectify the output?

Where do I find the large capacitors used as the capacitor bank, or what spec should each be? 

How do I find or make the choke used at the end of the circuit before the load is connected?

the pdf shows some high voltage resistors called "voltage divider resistors" and a reference to using them after the rectifier before the capacitor bank somewhere at the end of the circuit but not sure why or what they are for.  Many of the photos in the pdf were the same as Yucca posted, is yucca the one selling the plans, trying to get support for the information I purchased and no replies are being received?

Has anyone come up with length wraps diameter type of wire for each (L1 and L2) coil.  so many variations, this pdf had two variations itself!

Thank you to anyone who can help, I want to have one of these devices creating usable power, but I don't have the electronics background of others on this forum.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Tesluh on October 15, 2016, 10:03:34 PM
this is the most convincing video I have seen yet regarding these devices  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI5XWz8aZvo  it appears I have one of my diodes backward and I might need a different nst.
Title: Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
Post by: Tesluh on October 19, 2016, 03:54:51 PM
I think I have the primary mostly figured out, was able to bring the voltage in a large cap bank from 0 to 100v in less than a minute.  Not saying I have it all figured out but I have some things working correctly.  after wiring my primary like the video above (paying attention to the direction of the diodes) my spark gap works great and I get sparks across the secondary coil with a screwdriver when the primary is firing.  I have no ground on my primary circuit as of right now.

Can anyone give me a thorough explanation as to how I know if I have resonance in the primary coil or not?  I have made 4 different coils (and will probably have to make more to experiment with) but no way of knowing if they are running at their resonant freq or not.  I have an oscilloscope but have never used one before so I am not experienced in using a scope and don't want to fry it hooking it up wrong.