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Author Topic: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts  (Read 453381 times)

xee2

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #345 on: November 21, 2009, 07:12:35 AM »
@ bw

Thank you. Unfortunately, that does not provide the names of the companies so there is no way to verify the truth of these claims.


bw

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #346 on: November 21, 2009, 06:29:02 PM »
fine, just move on, not worth your time

Paul-R

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #347 on: November 25, 2009, 04:42:14 PM »

News on air coils from a Radiant Energy Yahoo group:

"I just spoke to a representative at Barker & Williamson and he said he's been considering making another run of 3064 coils. If you're interested, go to their site and send either an email or place your order. He plans to make another run (he didn't stipulate how many in a run) sometime in December... "

http://www.bwantennas.com/coils/mini.htm

Peterae

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #348 on: November 27, 2009, 05:57:30 PM »
Ok guys not much been happening around here i see  :'(

I now have a new work bench and am slowly setting up to start some tests.

Today i have been number crunching my coils parameters to try and get a ball park for resonance points.

Unfortunately the GDO i bought has ceased working correctly, i had always suspected it wasn't right but the Osc now doesn't work above 100mhz and is way out of calibration, and after checking out the circuit, i suspect it's the osc transistor which is no longer available  >:( and there's no adjustments for calibration should i find a close equivalent, so i will need to look into this some more yet to find a good replacement transistor.

So i cannot use the GDO for getting the res freq of my primary and secondary, so i have moved onto using the same value caps Don used to get an idea how close my coils tuning will be.

First my primary Inductance is 2.20uH 5 turns and Don uses a 0.20uF cap to tune this, this calculates out at a Resonant Frequency of 239.935kHz

The nearest cap i had was 0.1 so i paralleled 2 up and measured them with my cap meter which gave a reading of 184.66nF.
I then hooked up my sig gen and scope and looked for the resonant point which turned out to be 252.53kHz
When i put my cap and inductance value into the calculator it gave a theoretical res freq of 249.702KHz which is pretty dam close to what i am getting, so i now know the tuned primary freq.

My next job was to compare my secondary inductance and use the 47nF cap value Don used to see if my secondary Res Freq would be close.
It wasn't DOH.
My secondary inductance is 16.06uH for the 20 turns but with a 47nF cap to get a theoretical res freq of 249.702kHz i would need an inductance value around 9.3uH ish which would equate to my secondary having 13 turns not 20, but Don didnt have 13 turns he had (I counted 19) so something is wrong and doesnt add up at this point in time.

I will also say that my primary coil uses 86cm length of wire and my secondary currently uses 513.5cm, now if it's true that don used 4 time his primary length for his secondary then my secondary should be 344cm.

Interestingly each turn of my secondary coil uses 25.675cm of wire now if i multiply this by 13 i get 333.775cm which is fairly close to 4 times my primary length.

So either my coil dimensions are totally wrong or Don didnt tune his secondary to his primary and didn't use 4 times the wire length for his secondary.

I need to think on this some more to work out why.
HELP!!!!!

 

forest

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #349 on: November 27, 2009, 09:10:32 PM »
It's obvious to me that we can't compute Don device parameters from just video as a source.
Do you have exactly the same NST ?

Peterae

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #350 on: November 27, 2009, 10:03:44 PM »
Hi Forest
I am still stuck on getting the coil right before i hook the psu up.

I have reviewed the video tonight and come to the conclusion my primary is way too small, his only just fits inside his secondary coil

Peter

forest

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #351 on: November 27, 2009, 10:36:07 PM »
Hi Forest
I am still stuck on getting the coil right before i hook the psu up.

I have reviewed the video tonight and come to the conclusion my primary is way too small, his only just fits inside his secondary coil

Peter

Ok,then made exactly the same primary with the same components , connect NST  and all parts of primary except capacitors. Place a small pins in the place of capacitors and then measure inductance of your primary. you got that point ?

minde4000

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #352 on: November 27, 2009, 11:25:27 PM »
@Peterae

Static system measured numbers will be quite a bit different from actual working system at certain frequency. Primary small resistance will push resonant frequency one way secondary higher resistance will affect measured frequency even more. To do math on system @ its working frequency is very complicated. Don Smith system does not look tuned exectly at all  but numbers like you said come pretty close. Now coil lenghts do not match to quarter wave in any way so I believe it goes by even wire division tuning wich I have never heard before.
   So. His system looks to be out of precise tune thats for sure because precision tuning can only be achieved using variable components unless someone could do exect math on it wich is not practical for non geniuses :) To me it looks like more or less tuned energy pump.

  I would say just finish it up as close as he had and test it out.  Center tap might do its thing regardless of presice tuning...

Regards Minde






Peterae

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #353 on: November 27, 2009, 11:36:42 PM »
Hi Minde

Thanks for your input.
Yes i agree i am going to rebuild my primary tommorow to get it as big a diameter as i can so it still fits inside the secondary.

Don did tune his secondary coil precisely by testing for nodes with a neon which i will also try once i feel i have got as close to his coil setup as possible, again you are probably right that it is not so important i get an exact match to his coils but for replication purposes i might as well try as best i can.

We will see how i go tommorow.

Yes the quarter wire length for primary seems to be the important bit not quarter wavelength.

Peter

Peterae

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #354 on: November 28, 2009, 10:46:32 PM »
Today i remade my Primary coil, i increased the diameter to just fit inside my secondary coil and i managed to use a full quarter wire length of the secondary in just over 5.5 turns so i should now have a pretty close match with regard to the wire length relationships, i will try resonating it tomorrow with caps.

Now in one of Don's videos he states that some Neon Transformers printed ratings show OU

Poynt99 stated to me this may not be the case, so i looked into this a little below are the specs of a Ventex NPS-12D10

You will notice at the bottom of the specs it has ** and says 'Equivalent brightness of electromagnetic transformer' so the print on the label is only an equivalent rating compared to a conventional transformer as opposed to this switched mode version which has an oscillating output of 20kHz, and therefore is not a true representation of power output from the module.

Another thing that occurred to me is that in the device i am trying to replicate don uses a dimmer to vary the 120VAC feeding the neon transformer, now i am not so sure this would work well with a switched mode psu based neon supply, it certainly wouldn't give a linear variation of the HV output and would probably cutout totally once a certain voltage is reached, in fact if the switched psu did it's job i would have thought it would either maintain regulation or cutout totally.

I am now wondering did he even power this up at some point OUCH.

Peter


Specifications     
Input Voltage:    12 VDC (±10%)
Input Current:    1000 mA (Max)
Driving Distance*:    
Neon:    1-10 ft, (0-3 m)
Mercury:    1-12 ft, (0-3.7 m)
Output Voltage:    3000V
Output Current**:    15 mA
Frequency:    20 kHz ( ± )
Operating Temp:    0° to 104°F
(-18° to 40°C)
Dimensions    
Length:    3.0 in. (76.20 mm)
Width:    1.75 in. (44.45 mm)
Height:    1.25 in. (31.75 mm)
Mounting:    2.6 in. (66.04 mm)
Weight:    6.0 oz. (158.0 gr)
12 VDC Primary Leads:    8 in. (45.72 cm) wo/jack
Secondary GTO Leads:    18 in. (45.7 cm)

* Based on standard 12mm tube. Deduct one foot from driving footages for each pair of electrodes.

** Equivalent brightness of electromagnetic transformer




Peterae

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #355 on: November 28, 2009, 11:01:20 PM »
An addition to the above post, i will also say that i think the Neon psu he used also had a dimmer built in and no doubt this would have worked well, but then why add another on the 120VAC inverter output.

Peter

forest

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #356 on: November 29, 2009, 11:40:51 AM »
NST must work like Tesla coil with center tap secondary. Dimmer is probably because his capacitors looks like joined in parallel which means they are 4000VDC not 9kV

Peterae

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #357 on: November 29, 2009, 11:56:26 AM »
The 2 capacitors are in parallel to give the required 200nF, but the spark gap is in series with the cap, i would imagine the dimmer is there to alter the firing rate of the spark gap.

We have quiet a lot going on in this build, we have the tuned primary frequency, the untuned secondary frequency, we have the importance of the wire lengths for primary to secondary 1/4 relationship, and we also have the speed at which the gap fires the energy into the resonant system, each one seems to be set for a specific reason which hopefully we can work out at some point.

Peter

turbo

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #358 on: November 29, 2009, 12:15:19 PM »
Hi Minde

Thanks for your input.
Yes i agree i am going to rebuild my primary tommorow to get it as big a diameter as i can so it still fits inside the secondary.

Don did tune his secondary coil precisely by testing for nodes with a neon which i will also try once i feel i have got as close to his coil setup as possible, again you are probably right that it is not so important i get an exact match to his coils but for replication purposes i might as well try as best i can.

We will see how i go tommorow.

Yes the quarter wire length for primary seems to be the important bit not quarter wavelength.

Peter

Hi Peter  :)

I heard from a friend you were about ready to fire it up.
Don does mention in the video the secondary needs to be a division or multiple of the primary.
This is also seen in Tesla's work and i had the same question as you,does he mean wavelength or wire length.
Although Tesla also used alot of mass matching in his coils too.

Hope you get it to work soon :)

Marco.

PS. Did you find that chart for finding the frequency correcting resistance?

Peterae

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #359 on: November 29, 2009, 12:55:37 PM »
Hi marco
I have ordered the book Don references to with the charts but it has not arrived yet.

I am slowly getting to the point where i can progress, my main concern so far has been getting my coils to the right dimensions.

I have just powered up using a sig gen and a 200nF cap across my primary, i wanted to see what i would get on an untuned secondary coil.

I have attached 2 FFT shots

I am not yet ready to power this with an NST as it hasn't arrived yet but soon.

Peter