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Author Topic: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts  (Read 309248 times)

Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #60 on: August 22, 2009, 08:29:16 PM »
Spark arresters can be found in master telephone sockets, here in the uk they are rated between 200 and 260v i think.

Peterae,
thanks for the info.
Hmmm, 260 volt . That creates more questions concerning the device.
If the gap fires at 260 Volt then there is only such a low voltage in the circuit, which would surprise me.

I might have found an explanation for Smith`s usage of DC caps at least in the table device while making a schematic for it and the DC caps
get only charged with sinusoidal DC onto the positive plate.
I am not sure what happens when the gap fires, but maybe the cap alternates only between the maximal positive charge and the ground potential, which means never a truly negative potential which could destroy it.
What do you think?

EDIT: In the graph i used 12 Volts max for easier simulation

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Yucca

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #61 on: August 22, 2009, 09:32:30 PM »
I might have found an explanation for Smith`s usage of DC caps at least in the table device while making a schematic for it and the DC caps
get only charged with sinusoidal DC onto the positive plate.
I am not sure what happens when the gap fires, but maybe the cap alternates only between the maximal positive charge and the ground potential, which means never a truly negative potential which could destroy it.
What do you think?

Hi xeno,

Is your simulation based on any of smiths schematics or did you put the diodes in to force this behaviour, either way interesting stuff.

I've thought of that too, thinking that the oscilation will be a haversine function i.e a sin wave whose bottom rests on 0V. But it would not be the case in normal gap and LC becasue the inductor when energised is like elastic, when you let it go it will rebound and want to go back under 0V, a polarised cap wouldn't stop that and the oscillation would be damped sin about 0V centre just like a normal cap.

If the electrolytic cap cans are coated then they do not degrade in capacity with reverse charge, but he didn't specify this.

Another interesting thing about electrolytics is that when they are manufactured they are not polarised, only after using them in one polarity for some time do they start to show asymetry in the plate chemistry. So maybe if you run them at avg. zero, i.e. proper AC then they might not become polarised?


Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #62 on: August 22, 2009, 09:42:16 PM »
I've thought of that too, thinking that the oscilation will be a haversine function i.e a sin wave whose bottom rests on 0V. But it would not be the case becasue the inductor when energised is like elastic, when you let it go it will rebound and want to go back under 0V, a polarised cap wouldn't stop that and the oscillation would be damped sin about 0V centre just like a normal cap.

If the electrolytic cap cans are coated then they do not degrade in capacity with reverse charge, but he didn't specify this.

Another interesting thing about electrolytics is that when they are manufactured they are not polarised, only after using them in one polarity for some time do they start to show asymetry in the plate chemistry.

Thanks for giving it a thought. It is really hard that self-oscillating LC circuits cant be simulated so easily in Spice.
Only with a lot of start condition tweaking and then the earth ground potential is also not considered as a 2nd potential.

You are probably right the inductor alteration would drop the potential below zero and create a negative voltage.
I have searched online for high voltage lightning arresters but they are huge.
The one that Don Smith used is tiny and they most commonly really have a gap voltage of 200-400 V (like Peterae already said).
Does that indicate that the primary circuit does not reach a higher voltage than that?
Why the huge high voltage caps and 80kv breakdown HV cables then on the secondary when with a 1:10 winding ratio that would yield maximally 2000-4000 Volt then?
I think the scenario as i see it right now must be eroneous, otherwise the whole device couldn´t work as it is supposed to.

Offline Yucca

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #63 on: August 22, 2009, 09:47:07 PM »
Why the huge high voltage caps and 80kv breakdown HV cables then on the secondary when with a 1:10 winding ratio that would yield maximally 4000 Volt then?

The only reason I can think is that when the devices are showing OU behaviour then normal transformer action is exceeded greatly, the secondary swings at much higher amplitude due to external source excitation so the real voltage ratio is much higher than normal transformer theory dictates.

Of course this is speculation, do the devices work? we don't know, and what is frustrating is that we may never know. ???


Offline flathunter

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #64 on: August 22, 2009, 10:10:09 PM »
Wow!

This thread is moving fast tonight!

@Yucca - Beautiful set-up you got there.  Great photos.  Its the only way I can work....circuit diagrams often confuse me, but a photo is much clearer, especially if i have both a photo and a circuit diagram.  And you've given me both - cheers! 

@All - The level of scientific technical info is starting to go way above my head.  But I still understand the main ideas (kind of) and why you are all confused with Dons set-up.  The voltages just dont seem to add up from what i can see.  Anyway, lets not let it disappoint us.  Someone on overunity.com had a great quote on their avatar which i really liked

''the crowd that said something is impossible, never tried''

At the least we'll try eh?  Keep on going with all your tests - I'm feeling optimistic  ;D 

Its gonna take me a few weeks to get some HV diodes, caps and resistors (and 13005 trannies) - so for the meantime, i'm gonna try messing with my tesla coil and receivers, and try and get as many CFLs alight as physically possible - yeah, i know it wont prove OU, but its gonna be damn fun!  Theres a shop 2 mins away with cheap CFLs......and I wanna build a few air coils and try them out as receivers - see if they work better than my PVC receiver coils.  I just love the look of Yuccas coil!  I've got no little baby in the flat till friday.....plenty of time for Tesla silliness!  I figure if i try just about everything i can think of, i'm bound to find some exotic behaviour eventually...even if i dont understand it!   ;)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #64 on: August 22, 2009, 10:10:09 PM »
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Offline Peterae

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #65 on: August 22, 2009, 10:23:36 PM »
@Yucca

Nice build ;)

Good luck for tonights tests.

@xenomorphlabs

It will be quiet interesting to get some hands on with his setup, hopefully we should be able to answer some of these questions.

Does anyone know what approx resonant frequency we are aiming for.

I tried to do some guesstimates by measuring the dimensions of the coil and if he used 0.2uF 4kv caps again then it came out at 405Khz

The coil came out at 0.77178uH

I want to double check these figures when i get some time, as in the doc he mentions 408Mhz

Peter








Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #66 on: August 22, 2009, 10:39:19 PM »
@Yucca

Nice build ;)

Good luck for tonights tests.

@xenomorphlabs

It will be quiet interesting to get some hands on with his setup, hopefully we should be able to answer some of these questions.

Does anyone know what approx resonant frequency we are aiming for.

I tried to do some guesstimates by measuring the dimensions of the coil and if he used 0.2uF 4kv caps again then it came out at 405Khz

The coil came out at 0.77178uH

I want to double check these figures when i get some time, as in the doc he mentions 408Mhz

Peter

I have guestimated similar numbers, so i can confirm it !

One thing i am sure of, it is not a specific frequency that he is aiming for like suggested by some people who favour magic frequencies.
He stated that he just wants resonance and sticks as many caps on both sides as needed to achieve it.

As for his docs he mentions 200 Mhz too, but i am sure that is for different devices.
And for that the coils would have to be smaller i believe.
Except he considered some RF mysterious phenomenon coming from the spark gap only like Tesla observed too hehe.
 


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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #66 on: August 22, 2009, 10:39:19 PM »
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Offline Peterae

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #67 on: August 22, 2009, 11:17:53 PM »
Thats good it gives me something to aim for.

@Yucca what are you going to use for your spark gap.


Offline Yucca

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #68 on: August 23, 2009, 01:49:57 AM »
@peterae, thoriated tungsten rods 1.2mm diameter, ends ground perfectly flat.

OK guys, I fired it up quickly when I grabbed a few mins, proper testing is yet to come.

I tried earthing to my house wiring earth and 2 computers rebooted in the house :o. So I need dedicated earth connection in the garden for this.

This is running with the secondary free floating, no forced half wave.

I mention in the video that the higher frequency component is due to the flyback, but having looked at the trace some more I now think it is related to the aircoils instead because it appears to be the first harmonic perfectly phased with the fundamental.

here's the vid, apologies for grainy quality, it's an old digital camera in movie mode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ5IcBuSeTU

edit:
The gaps are both set at about 0.5mm and both have 2000pF over them.

One thing I´ve noticed when its been powered off for some minutes and its then started: upon starting the output gapfire frequency takes quite a few seconds to build to a higher and stable running frequency, quite weird!
« Last Edit: August 23, 2009, 02:34:09 AM by Yucca »

Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #69 on: August 23, 2009, 02:18:31 AM »
@peterae, thoriated tungsten rods 1.2mm diameter, ends ground perfectly flat.

OK guys, I fired it up quickly when I grabbed a few mins, proper testing is yet to come.

I tried earthing to my house wiring earth and 2 computers rebooted in the house :o. So I need dedicated earth connection in the garden for this.

This is running with the secondary free floating, no forced half wave.

I mention in the video that the higher frequency component is due to the flyback, but having looked at the trace some more I now think it is related to the aircoils instead because it appears to be the second harmonic perfectly phased with the fundamental, so maybe were seeing both quarter and halfwave action occuring here?

here's the vid, apologies for grainy quality, it's an old digital camera in movie mode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ5IcBuSeTU

Nice set-up!  ;) Keep it up

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #69 on: August 23, 2009, 02:18:31 AM »
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Offline Yucca

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #70 on: August 23, 2009, 02:57:07 AM »
forgot to mention, when running this device tied to my house electrical earth, the PSU voltmeter started reading noisy and low. So by mistake I turned it up to near 30V and my 13005 flyback drive transistor got zapped (1 down 9 to go).

Offline Yucca

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #71 on: August 23, 2009, 03:16:13 AM »
xeno, I just noticed that the oscillations received by my probe have quite alot of positive DC bias. You can see zero line on the left, most power appears above zero which suprised me? Maybe this gives some credibility to Don using a polarised cap?

flathunter, looking forward to seeing how much radiated power you can harvest from your TC.


Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #72 on: August 23, 2009, 04:54:30 AM »
xeno, I just noticed that the oscillations received by my probe have quite alot of positive DC bias. You can see zero line on the left, most power appears above zero which suprised me? Maybe this gives some credibility to Don using a polarised cap?

flathunter, looking forward to seeing how much radiated power you can harvest from your TC.

Interesting measurement indeed !
Does the DC Bias change if you change the orientation or position of the probe?
As i understand you placed it in a distance to the device.
It could be possible that the distance and angle has introduced some kind of phasing, just a thought.



Offline oscar

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #73 on: August 23, 2009, 07:32:02 AM »
xeno, I just noticed that the oscillations received by my probe have quite alot of positive DC bias. You can see zero line on the left, most power appears above zero .....

Hello Yucca,
thank you for making the effort of communicating your findings.
It appeared to me, that your signal looks much like the "3 sister" wave form user "ronotte" found in his TPU attempts. He also got that DC bias.
In his experiments this wave form was generated by mixing of 2 (or 3) frequencies and somehow you get the same effect by different means.

You can see his waveform at around 4 minutes 10 seconds into this video of ronotte
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6kzqVSk8tc

He also wrote about it here on ou.com at the time.
I don't know what it means but thought I would mention it.

Thanks again for documenting your efforts.
Good luck.

edit:
you can see the zero line and thus the DC bias of ronotte's signal in the second photo here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3779.msg75270#msg75270
« Last Edit: August 23, 2009, 09:17:57 AM by oscar »


Offline Yucca

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #74 on: August 23, 2009, 04:25:20 PM »
Hi oscar, yes I think the TPU may share many things with this device.

OK, I just found that when I move the scope probe further away the DC bias drops off very quickly. At 1m away it is there, at 2m away it pretty much disappears but the signal is still strong. I suspect that when close the probe is picking up a small electrostatic charge which then takes a few microseconds to bleed through the scopes 1MOhm input impedance.

When I use the secondary centre tap I get almost no output, I maybe need to up the frequency by using a lower primary tap.

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Re: Magnetic Resonance Devices based on Don Smith Concepts
« Reply #74 on: August 23, 2009, 04:25:20 PM »

 

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