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Author Topic: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER  (Read 289600 times)

Offline ramset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #75 on: October 19, 2010, 05:31:56 PM »
Broli
Thanks for doing that!
There were two BTT links in those 11 documents [two zip files]
I forwarded to you ,one BTT test, as recent as the 10th of this month.
Did you get [post] all 11?
Chet
PS
I believe Broli posted everything,I will check when I get
back from working later this week.[sooner If I can get to a "Real" computer}
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 06:17:16 PM by ramset »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #75 on: October 19, 2010, 05:31:56 PM »

Offline teslaalset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #76 on: October 20, 2010, 12:10:45 PM »
I've made a draft simulation in Femm V4.2 to work out Thane's model.
This could serve to better understand the principle.
In this first setup I used only one magnetic material : pure iron.
The diameter of the core of the primary is half of the diameter of the secondary coils.
The legs square to the primary coils are half the size of the primary coil core to allow for early saturation.
Thickness of the core is set to the width of the secondary coil cores.
The Femm file (Thane3.zip) is attached in case someone else want to play with this model.

It's just a first attempt using pure iron with magnetization saturation on.
If time allows I will write a lua script that simulates a full sinus period with various loads.

The example results below indicate flux flow in case through all coils flows 200 mA of current.
All coils have 100 windings AWG20.


Offline broli

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #77 on: October 20, 2010, 02:12:37 PM »
I've made a draft simulation in Femm V4.2 to work out Thane's model.
This could serve to better understand the principle.
In this first setup I used only one magnetic material : pure iron.
The diameter of the core of the primary is half of the diameter of the secondary coils.
The legs square to the primary coils are half the size of the primary coil core to allow for early saturation.
Thickness of the core is set to the width of the secondary coil cores.
The Femm file (Thane3.zip) is attached in case someone else want to play with this model.

It's just a first attempt using pure iron with magnetization saturation on.
If time allows I will write a lua script that simulates a full sinus period with various loads.

The example results below indicate flux flow in case through all coils flows 200 mA of current.
All coils have 100 windings AWG20.

That's a cool idea. Since the BTT follows known physics "laws" the simulation should give some interesting results.

Offline woopy

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #78 on: October 20, 2010, 05:24:02 PM »
Hi all
Hi Thane good to see you and your great work back here  :D

After seeing the post of Skywatcher and looking at the FEMM simulation of Teslaalset i have tried something.

Pix 1 is the setup with one ferrite toroid in the middle. The circuit is JT standard with L1 and L2  at 11 turns. The L3  (1.2 ohm and 43,3 mh) is wounded joining the interior and exterior ferrite toroids.

Pix 2 shows the trace with a very nice ringing effect. Pic to pic more than 300 volts and 11.7 khz

Pix 3 is the power in (1.07 volt at 35 ma )

Does it mean that this ringing effect shows that the BEMF of  L3 stays in the outer toroid bouncing back and forth, without disturbing the inner toroid?

Thanks for your attention

Laurent



Offline woopy

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #79 on: October 20, 2010, 07:27:19 PM »
Re-hi at all

To complete my previous post ,i rewounded another JT exactly the same size as the first one (11 turns for L1 and L2 ) . And L3 with 0.8 ohm and 20.5 mh.

But this time without the second toroid

Pix 1 the setup

pix 2 the trace. As you can see for the 300 volts, there is a soimple peak and no ringing at all

hope this help

good night

Laurent

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #79 on: October 20, 2010, 07:27:19 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Myzter

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #80 on: October 20, 2010, 07:30:59 PM »
thanks very interesting post

Offline teslaalset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #81 on: October 20, 2010, 11:17:29 PM »
That's a cool idea. Since the BTT follows known physics "laws" the simulation should give some interesting results.

A small update.
I added a traditional transformer layout, so a simultaneous comparison between the Thane's solution and a traditional trafo can be made more easy.
Exacly the same coils are used, with exactly the same currents. Also same materials are used.
The updated Femm file is attached.

Next is to interpret the flux densities and calculate coil voltages and current/voltage phases out of the currents and the flux results.

« Last Edit: October 20, 2010, 11:57:09 PM by teslaalset »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #81 on: October 20, 2010, 11:17:29 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #82 on: October 21, 2010, 03:43:44 AM »
HI GUYS,

THE BITT IS ACTUALLY THE ABOVE (SMALLER) TRANSFORMER WITH AN AIR GAP BETWEEN IT AND THE OUTER TOROID RING SO THE FLUX PATTERN SHOULD BE VERY SYMMETRICAL.

I NOTICED IN THE BELOW VIDEO TEST THAT THERE IS INDEED FLUX IN THE OUTER RING ON NO LOAD AS THE FEMM SUGGESTS ALTHOUGH I WOULD HAVE NOT PREDICTED IT.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins?feature=mhum#p/u/1/Eiu-dCe8bnA

CHEERS
T

Offline broli

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #83 on: October 21, 2010, 08:53:29 AM »
A small update.
I added a traditional transformer layout, so a simultaneous comparison between the Thane's solution and a traditional trafo can be made more easy.
Exacly the same coils are used, with exactly the same currents. Also same materials are used.
The updated Femm file is attached.

Next is to interpret the flux densities and calculate coil voltages and current/voltage phases out of the currents and the flux results.

Can I ask you to keep as much of your data you'll find in graphical form. A lot of people including me are FEMM illiterate, especially when it comes to lua scripting and extracting graphs from a FEMM model.

Offline teslaalset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #84 on: October 21, 2010, 10:25:19 AM »
HI GUYS,

THE BITT IS ACTUALLY THE ABOVE (SMALLER) TRANSFORMER WITH AN AIR GAP BETWEEN IT AND THE OUTER TOROID RING SO THE FLUX PATTERN SHOULD BE VERY SYMMETRICAL.

I NOTICED IN THE BELOW VIDEO TEST THAT THERE IS INDEED FLUX IN THE OUTER RING ON NO LOAD AS THE FEMM SUGGESTS ALTHOUGH I WOULD HAVE NOT PREDICTED IT.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins?feature=mhum#p/u/1/Eiu-dCe8bnA

CHEERS
T

Hi Thane, thanks for some assistance here.

I made core 2 twice as thin as core 1 because the flux generated by the primary coil splits into two paths to keep the flux density of core 1 identical to core 2.
In your design the flux generated by the primary coil causes the density in core 2 to be half that of the flux density of core 1.

Now, if I understand your principle correct, the BEMF flux caused by the secondary coils should not enter core 2. This means that core 2 should be saturated by the primary coil, right?
Now, in my view it would be better to half the diameter of core 2 to obtain such saturation in a larger portion of the total sinus period.
Can you advise here, if my assumptions are incorrect?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #84 on: October 21, 2010, 10:25:19 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline teslaalset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #85 on: October 21, 2010, 12:43:02 PM »
Can I ask you to keep as much of your data you'll find in graphical form. A lot of people including me are FEMM illiterate, especially when it comes to lua scripting and extracting graphs from a FEMM model.

Sure Broli, I will.

Offline broli

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #86 on: October 21, 2010, 07:47:09 PM »
Broli
Thanks for doing that!
There were two BTT links in those 11 documents [two zip files]
I forwarded to you ,one BTT test, as recent as the 10th of this month.
Did you get [post] all 11?
Chet
PS
I believe Broli posted everything,I will check when I get
back from working later this week.[sooner If I can get to a "Real" computer}

 Finally got around to bundling them all 11 files in one zip file and uploaded them here.
 
 http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=443
 

Sure Broli, I will.

Thanks man.


Offline ramset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #87 on: October 21, 2010, 08:32:59 PM »
Thank you once again Broli!!

I'm inviting some guests!!

Chet

Offline broli

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #88 on: October 21, 2010, 09:37:17 PM »
I don't know what happened to my last price inquiry. I'm going to send an other one with the corrected template. If others have time I recommend they do the same with local companies to get a feel for the price.


Offline ramset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #89 on: October 21, 2010, 09:46:31 PM »
Broli,
Can you repost or update the material specs?
Please?
Not to be silly but "all on one page " faxable/ printable sheet would be sweet [besides you have such great professional looking skills]
I would like to make some calls myself.
Thank you
Chet
PS
Of course this will be an Open source project!!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #89 on: October 21, 2010, 09:46:31 PM »

 

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