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Author Topic: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER  (Read 289597 times)

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2010, 06:50:57 PM »
Here are Thane Heins patent applications, altogether 4:
http://v3.espacenet.com/searchResults?IA=HEINS+THANE+CHRISTOPHER&DB=EPODOC&submitted=true&locale=en_EP&ST=quick&compact=false

Unfortunately two of them do not include the Figure drawings because in the patent office they found them as unscannable...   

These two patents are The Infiniti Generator CA2437745  and Toroid generator Coil CA2602439.  It is rather strange to hand in drawings that are unscannable.  LOL

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2010, 06:50:57 PM »

Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2010, 10:35:42 PM »
Good morning, I am new in this forum, (I have already posted in the "French Section"... I'am a Student Pianist and 23 years old.

I actually studying science by myself, I'am interested by solid state "Overunity Device" and "Free energy in general".
OK, I post here some theory to eventually helping some guys trying to replicate it...
I try here to demonstrate mathematicaly and scientifically the truth of the concept... I used some formula to do this.
I'am not a mathematician or a scientist this my personal interpretation of the concept...
The conclusion is this device have great potential to produce large OU !!!
I Hope helping you.

(sorry for my English, I speak French and live in France...)


Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2010, 07:37:27 AM »
Hi folks, Hi SchubertReijiMaigo, Thank you for the pictorial files and information. I watched thanes latest Bi-toroid video and the only thing I see that may be different is the fact that his central primary coil would tend not to traverse the larger inductance flux paths, otherwise maybe just the fact that your showing larger alternate inductance flux paths may work as well. I'm building a very small test device made from large steel washers, the washers are 1-3/4" od. by 3/4" id. by 1/8" thick. I have one washer with a 24 gauge bifilar coil to use as a self oscillator and glued together three washers to attach to the one primary washer. Here is a cad pic of the setup. Let me know what you folks think.
peace love light
Tyson

Offline teslaalset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2010, 09:21:19 AM »
Good morning, I am new in this forum, (I have already posted in the "French Section"... I'am a Student Pianist and 23 years old.

I actually studying science by myself, I'am interested by solid state "Overunity Device" and "Free energy in general".
OK, I post here some theory to eventually helping some guys trying to replicate it...
I try here to demonstrate mathematicaly and scientifically the truth of the concept... I used some formula to do this.
I'am not a mathematician or a scientist this my personal interpretation of the concept...
The conclusion is this device have great potential to produce large OU !!!
I Hope helping you.

(sorry for my English, I speak French and live in France...)

@SchubertReijiMaigo
Welcome to Overunity.com, always good to have new enthousiasts around here.
It's pretty unique to have a pianist around us that is interested in OU.

Allow me a few comments to your theory.
I have quickly red your calculations and it seems you take fixed permeability numbers into account.
Unfortunately this is a mistake that many people make when looking to this system.
Thane is skipping part of the actual mechanism in his patent description and therefore the example calculations in his patent are misleading. There is even a confirmation that his calculation examples are not according the measurements that are added in his patent.
It looks like he hides a part of his knowledge by simplifying the patent claims, or he is simply not aware.
Let me explain what has to be taken into account as well:

Permeability(mhu) = delta B/delta H
Good example of explanation can be found at Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permeability_%28electromagnetism%29
If you look at the bottom of this Wiki page, there is an example of mhu versus B and H
Mind you that the BH curve used here is that of a 'virgin' core, but suits for the example to understand how mhu and B relate.

Now, take the typical BH curves of each type of metal used in this transformer.
Deriving permeabilty from these B-H curve you can find that depending on H (caused by the current through the coils), B varies non-linear and even saturates.
This means permeability of a core is a variable not a constant: mhu=f(H)=f(B).
An visual examples is given in the figure below.

So, the claimed overunity only occurs at particular current values.
Since sinus shaped input voltage is commonly used, only at (small) parts of these sinus period the condition is created where there is a difference in permeability that causes OU.
These particular situations are depending on the input current, as well as the output current occurring at the very same moment.

I am not saying OU is impossible with this setup, but it requires a very specific driving and loading mechanism to get the most out if this setup.
We may further discuss this if people are interested.

By the way, your English is well understood, so no excuses needed  ;)

[update]
It seems that you propose to use the same material for both cores.
In that case the actual model is a bit simpler fortunately, assuming the magnetic coupling is ideal:
Reluctance ratio is 1:10 -> 1 cm2 : (1 cm2+9 cm2)
The ration is a bit less, due to the slight difference in flux path lengths. So, your number on the ratio is correct.
But there is still a difference in flux saturation that has to be taken into account, because both cores will have different B-H curves while having the same coils/currents applied.

The saturation effect is actually an interesting one.
When the 1 cm2 core is in an early state of saturation, the 9 cm2 core is still in a unsaturated state when the coil winding ratios are 1:1.
The reluctance of a non saturated core is lower than a saturated one.
So, at relative low currents, the reluctance ratio may exceed the 1:10 in this case under the given assumptions.

In practice it will be hard to implement, since effective transformers are made from laminated iron.
With laminated iron effective magnetic coupling is hard to achieve in the Z-plane however.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 02:35:44 PM by teslaalset »


Offline gyulasun

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2010, 10:07:57 AM »
Hi folks, Hi SchubertReijiMaigo, Thank you for the pictorial files and information. I watched thanes latest Bi-toroid video and the only thing I see that may be different is the fact that his central primary coil would tend not to traverse the larger inductance flux paths, otherwise maybe just the fact that your showing larger alternate inductance flux paths may work as well. I'm building a very small test device made from large steel washers, the washers are 1-3/4" od. by 3/4" id. by 1/8" thick. I have one washer with a 24 gauge bifilar coil to use as a self oscillator and glued together three washers to attach to the one primary washer. Here is a cad pic of the setup. Let me know what you folks think.
peace love light
Tyson

Hi Tyson,

I think the biggest problem with the washers to test this setup would be their eddy current losses, unfortunately, even at low frequencies. 

I know that ferrite toroidal cores with a decent OD are expensive and hard to wind them. Thane used such and occasionally he was lucky to get machine winding help from the manufacturer producing the big ferrite rings.

Maybe making isolated soft iron wire ring cores from the so called garden wire you probably have heard of already, such wire cores wound into a multiturn ring shape were used up to in the 20's or 30's as the cores for toroidal mains or even audio frequency transformers and then laminations were to follow them.

A cheaper source for toroidal cores seems to be this link up to 2" or 2.5" OD, but the really big ODs are everywhere more expensive:

http://www.surplussales.com/Inductors/FerToro/FerToro-3.html 

rgds, Gyula

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2010, 10:07:57 AM »
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Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2010, 10:50:41 AM »
Hi Gyula, thanks for replying to my post. Yes I am aware the losses with using washers and at the frequencies it will be at, though if my setup is appropriate enough to replicate the effect, then it should at least show if the larger inductance secondary core will help redirect the counter emf from interfering with primary input. It's an easy build, so I figured I'd start simple and small. Thanks for your suggestions.
peace love light
Tyson

Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2010, 07:40:19 PM »
Hello, thank you for your comments and reactions.
It seem I have made some mistake in my theory... Effectively Permeability vary with the current in the coil (H value) in the graph of teslaalset the permeability decrease when H increase and B approching saturation, yes I understand now, at low power on the secondary, the overunity (Permeability is hight) is here but when B increase unfortunately the permeability drop brutaly, so my ratio of 8.03 is not true in this case, the true question is: 
Does this ratio is highter than 1 (for decoupling the two coils from the input primary) ?
If yes you have some overunity, if not you have a unity or under unity in this case...
Is there any material in this world that have linear permeability to avoid this case !?
Thank you for people that try to replicate it with my theory !!!
If you have some resultat and measurement can you share here please.
Beware of the input power measurement (cos phi) this value can be false !

Edit: I think even with this "problem" a small overunity can be achieved like a 150% 200 % but not the astonishing 1000% 3000% or even 7000% that claims is the patent and some other forums, I think a 150 % is better than nothing specialy with this simple device with no moving part !!!

For my English, I know it a little when I have some words or expression that I don't know I use google to translate.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2010, 07:40:19 PM »
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Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2010, 11:31:26 AM »
Sorry for two consecutive post but here a repost a new design to try to avoid the non linearity problem >:(

Conventional transfomers have sometimes this problem to, so the fabricants add in the magnetic circuit a very small air gap: the Reluctance is slightly increased but they add linearity in the BH curve and permeability, another cause is to having less contraints on the magnetic material (magnetostriction) the material can vibrate more freely...

Here I use the same principe to add some linearity in the circuit to prevent the undesirable coupling when B is hight (hight current).

I hope this solution can increase the efficiency of this device, this can be the "secret-not-tell-in-the-patent" stuff !!! ;D

Offline BESIBESI

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2010, 01:09:54 PM »
[]IT'S WRONG ANALISE IN VIDEO. 1/ WHEN USE  BOTH SECONDARY  COIL THEY CANCAL EACH OTHER SO THE ONLY WAY THAT FLUX GO IS IN PRIMER COLI LIKE A STANDART TRANSFORMER. NO ENERGY WIN
                            2/ WHEN USE ONE SECONDARY COIL ON  LOAD THERE IS NO CANCAL FLUX BUT PRIMERY COIL FLUX HAS E EASY TO GO THE SECONDAR COIL UNLOAD SO THE VOLTAGE ON SENDARY DROP MUCH.
                             AND SO DON'T HAVE WIN ENERGY. REPLY ME12:56 12/09/2010[/b]

Offline BESIBESI

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2010, 01:17:40 PM »
IT'S WRONG ANALISE IN VIDEO. 1/ WHEN USE  BOTH SECONDARY  COIL THEY CANCAL EACH OTHER SO THE ONLY WAY THAT FLUX GO IS IN PRIMER COLI LIKE A STANDART TRANSFORMER. NO ENERGY WIN
                            2/ WHEN USE ONE SECONDARY COIL ON  LOAD THERE IS NO CANCAL FLUX BUT PRIMERY COIL FLUX HAS E EASY TO GO THE SECONDAR COIL UNLOAD SO THE VOLTAGE ON SENDARY DROP MUCH.
                             AND SO DON'T HAVE WIN ENERGY. REPLY ME12:56 12/09/2010

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2010, 01:17:40 PM »
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Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2010, 12:39:18 PM »
Hi Guys and Gals,

Test Overview:

Previous IP iterations of the BITT employed a high impedance Primary Coil as deterrent to a Secondary BEFF induced flux. This test data pertains to a low impedance Primary Coil operated at saturation as a deterrent to Secondary Coil BEMF induced flux.

Test Conclusions:

Primary Coil Power Factor Reduction

Saturation of the Primary Coil’s core reduced the Power Factor by 11.1% from a NO LAOD PF of 0.17 to ON LOAD PF of 0.0.

Primary Coil Input Current Reduction
While the Load Output Voltage increased by a factor of 9400%, the Primary Coil Input Current reduced by 1.34% or 10mA.

Cheers
T

btw:
You can't uses one magnetic field to cancel "out" opposing fluxes - since they pass each other like "ships in the night."


« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 01:17:58 PM by CRANKYpants »

Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2010, 12:41:06 PM »
Primary Coil Input Current Reduction

While the Load Output Voltage increased by a factor of 9400%, the Primary Coil Input Current reduced by 1.34% or 10mA - an interesting anomaly which was identified previously a couple of years ago with GOTOLUC and I and in early BITT as shown here at Ottawa University:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP7zmk1t2gI

Also of note:
The ON LOAD PF also improves from NO LAOD to ON LOAD as seen below...



« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 01:34:22 PM by CRANKYpants »


Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2010, 12:46:09 PM »
AS YOU CAN SEE WITH A SATURATED PRIMARY - THE POWER FACTOR OF THE PRIMARY IS REDUCED TO 0.0 (PURELY REACTIVE) WHILE THE SECONDARY COILS DELIVER (REAL) POWER TO THE LOAD.
 
EFFICIENCY = INFINITY

THIS IS THE SAME RESULT DR. FUSINA OF THE DEFENCE RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT CANADA DISCOVERED WHEN HE TESTED THE "OLDER" BITT ABOUT A YEAR AGO.

TO REQUEST DRDC DATA: send and email to thane_heins@yahoo.ca  8)

CHEERS
T

ABOVE PHOTOS:
High Voltage Sine Waves w/ Core Saturation Power Factor = 0.0 @ 90 degrees.

BELOW PHOTOS:
Low Voltage Sine Waves Power Factor = 0.17 @ 80 degrees.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 01:13:14 PM by CRANKYpants »

Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2010, 01:31:45 PM »
AN INTERESTING EVALUATION FROM RUSSIA ON THE REGENERATIVE ACCELERATION GENERATOR (RM) SHOW HERE: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins


Russian Academy of Science  

"I’m very interested in what you are doing with your experiments, because from the mathematical point of view what’s going on in your experiments is the break of SO3 symmetry in fundamental tensor of Yang Mills equations that makes it obvious to see the flaws if Maxwell electrodynamics."

"Thank you very much for the detailed answers you provided! Number of your experiments (Multi Coil Stators and bi-toroid transformer) are not lying in the field fo Maxwellian electrodynamics. Today I made a numerical simulation of a model problem – simulation of the Ampere’s force on the coil from the moving permanent magnet using Maxwell set of equations with bias currents in conductors. I changed number of terns in the "coil" and varied magnetic and electric properties of coil material to get the equivalent of high R and Z. In the simulation there are no effects that you have in experiments – in the simulation there’s a direct Lenz law as its stated by the physics. That is fascinating!"

Yours truly,
Nick.

Dr. Evstigneev N.M., leading sc., dep. of chaotic dynamics,
Institute for System analysis,
Russian Academy of Science.






Offline teslaalset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2010, 02:07:10 PM »
@Crankypants
Did you make these photo's yourself?
It not clear from your posting whether the info you used are from Thanes or your own setup (if any).
Can you please elaborate a bit more?
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 02:43:55 PM by teslaalset »

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2010, 02:07:10 PM »

 

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