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Author Topic: Mass can not slow time.  (Read 15363 times)

Offline exnihiloest

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2009, 03:20:24 PM »
...
Well nasa did a test with a ship and found the ships time slowed, well in our case the mars and earth clock would have to still be the same, and if the ships clock slowed, then it had nothing to do with speed, it had to do with energy state.
...

It doesn't a matter. You can use either special relativity or general relativity to get the solution.

From the viewpoint of general relativity (that one I prefer), acceleration and gravity cannot be distinguished. Then the acceleration when the traveler starts, stops or comes back, causes the slowing of time (as the gravity does it also.) You can easily calculate the time shift at the arrival. I do it myself using only one spatial dimension and the Schwarzschild metric, tensor culculi are not even required. Surprisingly the time shift depends only on the "gravitational potential" (due to acceleration) and this potential depends on the distance at which accelerations (and decelerations) occur.

For a given time of travel, the distance depends on the speed. This is the link with special relativity which finds the same result as general relativity (see the classical calculus used in the twin pseudo-paradox).

My conclusion is that special relativity which deals with speeds, deals in fact with jumps from one inertial frame to another, ignoring the  underlying process of acceleration. Nevertheless it gives the correct results because in the underlying process, these jumps do not depend on the absolute acceleration but on potentials (path independant).







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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2009, 03:20:24 PM »

Offline brian334

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2009, 07:20:53 PM »
This conversation is getting completely DAUM.
Time does not have ANY physical properties,
therefore time can not do ANYTHING.

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Offline spoondini

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2009, 07:38:16 PM »
This post has changed my entire outlook.

Instead of searching for sources of free energy, I will now embark on a quest to find additional sources of free time.  Currently I have little free time, would it break the laws of thermodynamics to rearrange/reprioritize my schedule and generate free time from nothing?

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2009, 07:47:40 PM »
This conversation is getting completely DAUM.
Time does not have ANY physical properties,
therefore time can not do ANYTHING.

Write a thesis on why you think time doesn't exist, apply it with math and known laws of physics and document your theory so the whole world can understand what you have to say. get it peer reviewed you that you might have that chance at the Nobel prize.

M.I.T has a few openings so here's your chance.

Jerry ;)


Offline brian334

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2009, 08:57:55 PM »
Math and time are both abstract ideas.

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2009, 08:57:55 PM »
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Offline brian334

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2009, 09:13:34 PM »
You claim that things that travel at the speed of light have infinity mass, so light must have infinity mass.

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2009, 09:17:25 PM »
Math and time are both abstract ideas.

Math can tell you if you have been cheated out of money, how is math abstract?

the computer you're using would not of been possible without math formula. I don't see how math does not apply.

Jerry

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2009, 09:17:25 PM »
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Offline brian334

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2009, 09:19:51 PM »
If light had infinity mass than it wood annihilate everything it runs in two.

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2009, 09:24:52 PM »
You claim that things that travel at the speed of light have infinity mass, so light must have infinity mass.

Hi Brian.

According to peer reviewed physics anything with mass can never achieve light speed, only massless objects can achieve light speed. even an electron can only achieve 99.999% light speed and that took the power of 300 Hoover dam hydroelectric plants to achieve it and that was for just 1 electron.

Quantum Tunneling may make 'velocity' requirements obsolete. travel from point A. to point B. without traveling the distance. pop in and pop out and you are there.

Jerry ;)

Offline d3adp00l

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2009, 01:34:16 AM »
MAth it self is abstract but it describes reality, which makes it an adjective of reality.

Reality happens, it doesnt need math to do so. It needs the properties of reality to do so, and math describes the effects of those properties, therefore allowing a prediction and understanding of what will happen in a given situation.

Obviously light does not have infinite mass, from our perspective.

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2009, 01:34:16 AM »
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Offline Prophmaji

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2009, 04:22:42 PM »
Time, mass, and gravitation are secondary effects.

The signature of the 'prime mover' (s)   is, or are,...Voltage and Current. Voltage meaning: polarized differentials in an oscillatory state, when it comes to describing matter.

Perfect current flow - identical across/through a given 'area', or group of oscillatory 2-d stress field interactives (multiple 2-d field interactives integrating - thus a final vector describing subatomics - thus describing 'matter') denotes loss if time and loss of differential as described in 'voltage'. Which leads to collapse of time and mass (local to the current flow). The 'mass' remains in our 'outer world' as the differential to the greater whole does still exist.

These are oscillatory resonant systems based on the given 2-d infinite stress fields at their integrative point thus creating the 3-d world through these 'outer' differentials.

Thus mass, time, and gravitation are external and not primary effects, and can be 'modified' or manipulated through the use of resonant and oscillatory manipulation of current and voltage.

To clarify: all --space, time, matter, energy, gravitation, and dimensional egress can be manipulated via controlled aspects of oscillation of current and voltage-in whatever form it may take.

Thus this entire forum can be seen to be doing exactly that in all aspects of all experimentation.

Do you see it now?

Essentially 'mass' cannot slow 'time', it may do so, but the effect is secondary to the heart of the issue. Manipulation of oscillatory resonant aspects of current and voltage  (the essence of the dimensional protrusion of matter into what forms this dimension) CAN do so. And DOES.

Thus the essence of everything on this forum that - works- . Every aspect that is speculative/speculated via observation of and through recorded history of instances, all of them - all point to this exact single point. UFOS, Dimensional egress stories, gravitational manipulation, transmutation, Bedini, Tesla, Gerlacht, Hildiger, (Gabriel) Kron, Pyramids, Newman, Meyer, etc...- all of it works through this single point. Every single anomalous point in science, all relativity and quantum considerations, the whole ball of wax, in all ways can be modified, maintained, created, destroyed, altered, etc..all through this point of resonant manipulation of current and voltage in some applied manner.


Do you see it now?

Offline brian334

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2009, 08:21:03 PM »
A perfectly good example of gibberish.
Einstein would be proud of you.


Offline brian334

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2009, 08:59:25 PM »
I think atheists like Einstein can’t deal with the notion that the universe is infinitely big and the universe has existed forever. So daum people like Einstein make-up stuff. 

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2009, 10:14:30 PM »
Hi Brian.

According to peer reviewed physics anything with mass can never achieve light speed, only massless objects can achieve light speed. even an electron can only achieve 99.999% light speed and that took the power of 300 Hoover dam hydroelectric plants to achieve it and that was for just 1 electron.

Jerry ;)

for something as large as an electron, this may hold true in most instances (not all), but even light itself (photons) have mass.
This has been undeniably proven, though most of science tends to deny it, even in the face of such evidence - such as momentum, impact force, ect of a controlled photon.  The mass of a photon is well known, and well rejected by scientific theory as a result of certain fundamental assumptions, with which a photons "mass" would interfere.

until such theorem are accurately corrected to account for these 'fudge factor' assumptions, science will continue having to deny that mass can achieve such speeds.

Ed Leedskalnin demonstrated decades ago, a method of sending electrons at FTL speeds (though that was not the conclusion he had reached at the time).
This was confirmed in the early 90's in an IBM laboratory, when they send electronic signals across a warehouse at FTL speeds. With outrageous claims of "teleportation", IBM was forced to abandon this project.

the mechanics behind this are quite simple, an objects velocity is determined by the resistive magnetic forces associated with propegating matter through space.

Light propegates its own magnetic field, through which it travels, and is not subject to the same resistive forces (except when passing through or very near the strong atomic field or a field of comparible strength).

i propose that the mass of a photon, is derrived from its Energy,
in the form of m= E/c^2 . - this can be conclusively verified by a measurement of the momentum of a photon of known energy.
which correlates to the calculation of P=E* frequency/c^2 . though Plancks relationship tells us that  P=E/c . :which only accounts for a portion of the photons energy, and to derrive the full energy requires the use of a fudge factor, commonly known as Plancks constant. remember that Planck's constant is
h = E /c * wavelength = ~ 6.6 x(10^-34) J*s
which is the energy required by the photon to propegate its magnetic field throughout one 'wave', divided by the time it takes to complete that wave(frequency)
and.. since wavelength * frequency = c
E=mc^2 holds true, even in the case of a photon.

Now:  how does this relate to slowing 'time'? the mass of a photon does not slow time.

Increasing the mass/energy of a photon will increase its frequency and decrease its corresponding wavelength. From our perspective, the photon's "time" will speed up.  From the photons perspective, our "time" will slow down.  but the ammount of "time" that passes during any sequence of events from the perspective of the observer remains constant as defined by said unit of measurement.

i.e.: 1 second, is one second from either frame of reference.
though looking from one into the other, things may appear to take a longer or shorter "time" to occur. This is only apparent, because of their relative speeds - "time" itself does not change.

That is one of Einsteins biggest assumptional flaws in his theory of relativity - that "time" can actually be altered by a relative state of motion.



 
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 10:36:32 PM by sm0ky2 »

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Offline mr_bojangles

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2009, 02:12:03 AM »
anything can be overanalyzed to oblivion

i can make the argument that nothing exists at all

mass can achieve light speed if on the edge of a black hole

time is nothing more than a concept of another perception

its a sense, like tase and sight

sight is having the ability to recognize a specific type of matter due to a specific band of light that allows us to "see" we can barely actually see anything comparatively speaking, yet we still believe sight does exist

 so the concept or sense of "time" is more so our ability to observe a small portion of "time" by comparing our bodies decay to that of everything we come into contact with

the center of a black hole time does stop

light can be converted into matter, its merely a form of energy

if a person was able to achieve light speed, their body would decay at an extremely lower rate than that of a person not traveling the speed of light "time traveling" forward

i believe what you are saying is time doesnt not actually exist, therefore something tangible cannot affect something that is a concept

our perception of time can be slowed by large amounts of mass as well as relative speed, were just incapable of generating enough energy to do so

i will agree that time is not real, but i disagree with mass not being able to manipulate our perception of time

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2009, 02:12:03 AM »

 

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