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Author Topic: Mass can not slow time.  (Read 15122 times)

Offline brian334

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Mass can not slow time.
« on: June 25, 2009, 10:35:23 PM »
There is no connection between mass and time.

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Mass can not slow time.
« on: June 25, 2009, 10:35:23 PM »

Offline brian334

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2009, 10:41:15 PM »
Time is nothing butt a abstract idea created by sober people.

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Offline brian334

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2009, 10:44:50 PM »
Drunk people do not do not
care what time it is.

Offline brian334

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2009, 10:51:08 PM »
Can time change mass?
If it can than mass can change time.


Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2009, 11:59:19 PM »
Hi Brian.

I am not really here to answer your questions so I wont.

Time is nothing more than a measurement tool. your last post was the event the time of your last post tells me when that event occurred. if there wasn't any clue to the time then I would have no clue as to when your last post was written and posted. if I wanted to go back in time to read your past events on a precise moment I could only do so if time was measured and recorded.

some people just prefer to say time travel rather than event travel, it sounds so much better but can confuse the issue if taken out of context.

There is a meaning behind Event Horizon. why didn't they choose Time Horizon, because it sounds funny.
Jerry ;)
« Last Edit: June 26, 2009, 01:12:26 AM by onthecuttingedge2005 »

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2009, 11:59:19 PM »
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Offline Alien509

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2009, 03:41:30 AM »
Event Horizon  ;)

n.  The region, usually described as spherical, marking the outer boundary of a black hole, inside which the gravitational force is strong enough to prevent matter or radiation from escaping.

It's really just alot of complex math though  :D

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2009, 04:01:05 AM »
How did I know this would occur, if one doesn't have an event horizon then one could make one but without the ill effects of a black hole. a space ship at the speed of light or near it can induce a gravitational influence(even if Massless) to open a zero dimensional throat(Wormhole) to other event horizons simply by traveling an inverse Archimedes spiral at the speed of light or near it.

Jerry   
« Last Edit: June 26, 2009, 02:40:01 PM by onthecuttingedge2005 »

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2009, 04:01:05 AM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2009, 12:25:24 AM »
Light and the rest of the electromagnetic spectrum travels at C in all reference frames in the vacuum of space.  This is well established and accepted throughout the physics community.

If you're traveling at half C in a spacecraft and measure the speed of light coming from your spacecraft in your reference frame, you will calculate light to be traveling at C.  This is due to Time affecting your calculations at you're current mass/energy.

If a stationary outside observer measures the same light from your spacecraft in his frame of reference, he will calculate light to be traveling at C also.

Since Time is part of our calculations, both the local and outside observer will come to the same calculations.  The light should be calculated at half C when the space traveler is moving at half C, but since Time has slowed down for this space traveler, then he calculates it to be at C and not half of C.

Just because we use Time in our measurements, doesn't mean Time is a constant or is the same in another reference frame.

Time is not a constant.  Time is variable according to the mass/energy of the observer who is doing the calculating.

If you think Time doesn't affect mass/energy, then maybe look at how the galaxies are spiraled, which most if not all have a black hole and event horizon in their center.  This spiral is directly related to Time.  The space being torn open, allows the galaxies to be created and formed through this zero dimensional point which leads to all Event Horizons or Time.  The Archimedes Inverse Spiral for Time Traveling makes a lot of sense to me.

Very few people actually understand Einstein's Relativity Theory on space-time curvature.  We call it gravity with no explanation to how or why mass causes space-time to be curved.  Gravity is nothing more than mass/energy affecting the rate of Time, which cause a space-time curvature for other objects of mass/energy.  If something is massless, meaning it has no length, no width, and no height, then Time would not have an affect on it.  Time only affects mass/energy within it's Time dimension.

Time can be measured just like measuring distance or space.  We don't need to measure time before we use it in our calculations, since it is a near constant for us here on the earth.  They constantly have to update the Time on Satellites and GPS systems for them to stay in sync with the earth.  If they didn't do this, then your GPS system would lose accuracy of 3-6 meters per day.

Instead of using Time in part of your mathematical calculations in one particular frame of reference, maybe you need to start calculating Time itself with different masses/energies within each frames of references, then you will see how Time is used in calculations, but also how mass/energy affects Time itself that is used in the calculation.

This is really hard for most people to grasp and wrap their mind around.  Once you understand the concept, then you will realize how true and simple it really is.

I know your position on this.  Please allow me to take my own position on this, even if it isn't the same as yours.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2009, 01:15:14 AM by gravityblock »

Offline d3adp00l

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2009, 12:12:35 AM »
If mass and time were related then we would have a grand unified field theory. If mass and time were related then the reactions in the massive sun would take longer to occur. This is trash,

Time is a dimension, it is the fundamental dimension by which all other dimensions are created. Without time you have no length width or height. Why? Because time is required to move from one spot in those dimensions to another, if it doesn't take time to move then you are in both places at once and then the dimension doesn't exist.

Time is equal to dimension 1, zero dimension is nothing.

time begins to vibrate in a line creating dimension 2 length.

That length begins to vibrate in a 90 degree plane of its length vibration creating dimension 3 a plane or lenthg and width.

that plane begins to vibrate in a 90 degree angle creating volume and the height, which also creates a elementary particle.

Since time doesnt exist in time and it doesn't exist in the lesser dimensions it can exist everywhere at once, to it its all the same thing. So everything can be made from the same time vibration, which is why all matter in the universe interacts, its in the same temporal phase, just as data streams on an ethernet cable do not interact with other hz.

our perception of time can be scewed because the devices we use to measure it are made of lesser dimensions, which as they move faster approach a higher energy state in exchange for giving up a dimension. As things move faster they do not stretch, they shrink, from 4d to 3d.

Light does not travel at C our observation of its effects of motion are limited to C, because at C it drops out of 4d and goes into 3d, leaving only evidence, since we can not interact with 3d from the 4d environment. This has to do with the particles acceration to C in the last chronon as it reaches C. the effects causes an effect similar to the sound barrier, the effect is in one place while the object is in another. But since it is a 3d object and we are looking at it from a 4d perspective then we can never actually observe the object. That would be like asking a blind person to observe the exact location of a subsonic jet. It doesnt exist within his observable world.

Start with the right premise and the rest makes sense. start with time as the last dimension and everything is jacked.

Offline BEP

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2009, 01:58:00 AM »
Interesting thoughts, all.

My two cents:

Time and space(with everything in space) are two sides of the same coin. You bend one side - you bend the other.

The measurement of time between events is a human thing, time was there before us.

Maybe I short changed you, sorry.

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2009, 01:58:00 AM »
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Offline d3adp00l

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2009, 04:05:21 AM »
Space is time, space is created from "time" vibrating.

Time doesn't need length, width, or height to exist, but L,W,H all need time to exist.

Personally I wouldn't worry about bending anything, just figure out how to get to a high enough energy state that one of the dimensions drops out of existance. Then mass goes to zero (a plane has no mass) and you can go as fast as you want with almost no energy.

Also with no mass as a plane, going through a star, planet, or blackhole is not an issue, so long as you don't de-energize while there.

I am not saying its possible, but this is what I see of the system.

Offline ATT

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2009, 06:16:03 PM »
The measurement of time between events is a human thing...
.
Now -that's- an interesting point.

So, then, can we take 'time' to be a measure of 'memory'? Regardless of the occurrence of events, is it our -memory- of event-occurrences that we are measuring and thus attempting to define  through the species-wide use of artificial time-standards?

If we had no memory, would we not find ourselves in a perpetual 'present'?

Of course, that would render us somewhat restricted as lifeforms, if we couldn't retain any memories we couldn't learn and could only exist in an environment to which we were highly specialized.

Do we, then, impose our own species-defined extrapolation of 'time' to 'events' that may have or will in the future occur, in order to provide ourselves with a standardized frame of reference for these relationships?

If this is the case, it seems it is our 'perception' we are continually attempting to resolve rather than any causal external stimuli (which is, itself, based on that 'perception'). 
.


Offline brian334

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2009, 10:50:45 PM »
Gibberish 

Offline d3adp00l

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2009, 08:35:50 AM »
Let me elaborate a bit.

As a ship speeds up its energy state increases.

From an outsiders point of view the ship appears to get shorter (not longer like einstein says)

example stand on the side of the road and have a car drive past you at 10mph, it has an apparent length. have it drive past you at a 110mph, it appears in front of you for a short time, therefore it appears to be shorter.

Einstein said it gets longer, it only does this from a time constant point of view, in other words if your lowest time amount is one second, well the 110 MPH car appears to be longer than the 10MPH. But this is apparent from a point of view that is in line to the ships direction of travel.

from the side it appears shorter.

Now increase the speed to that of light, the transverse observer sees nothing, because its moving so fast that it went 2 dimensional. From a linear observer it would appear to exist for its entire ray length.

So as you increase your energy state you get shorter in a transverse reference, so the ship travels away, as it loses one of its dimensions, time slows down, which is why the tests nasa did seems to prove einstien right, at the speed of light time doesn';t exist. Its not the speed, but the energy state. Speed only exists when compared to something else. In the case of the ship its compared to the universe, specifically our planet.

At this moment we are traveling a great speeds on this planet, is our time different than someone else on a planet traveling away from us?

lets say that two observers one on earth and one on mars, a ship leaves earth and heads at great speed to mars, the observers have watches that were in time exactly, tell me compared to the ships clock, what do the observers clocks show?

Well nasa did a test with a ship and found the ships time slowed, well in our case the mars and earth clock would have to still be the same, and if the ships clock slowed, then it had nothing to do with speed, it had to do with energy state.

This doesn't mean that if you go fast than light than time will reverse.

The only way that would be possible, is if light traveled instantly.


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Offline exnihiloest

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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2009, 12:16:58 PM »
There is no connection between mass and time.

The corrections of general relativity to the atomic clocks of GPS permit to get a daily accuracy of the order of meters instead of the order of hundreds of meters. General relativity works thus time depends on gravity. As mass creates gravity, time depends on mass.






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Re: Mass can not slow time.
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2009, 12:16:58 PM »

 

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