Author Topic: AC from Joule Thief Secondary/pick-up (Read 132992 times)

jeanna · « **Reply #30 on:** June 19, 2009, 07:18:22 AM »

I have saved a burned out spot light. How do I connect it up? The little button on the bottom and the threaded side wall? Can a joule thief?
I have lots of them that have 333khz and higher. All I need to do is ramp n amp it up with more coils I think...

Wanna help? (I realize you are moving. It is hard now. It is OK to save this til later too.)

jeanna

innovation_station · « **Reply #31 on:** June 19, 2009, 07:35:14 AM »

you know i will help any way i can ...

but this is an easy job ...

we just need a tiny tesla coil ill show you scary power ... lol

there is 1 reason and only 1 why the t coil is not ou ...

lol

cuz who has rectified it ....

if we had a t coil with properly spaced contacts to diodes... well

i need not say more on that one ....

ist!

Doug1 · « **Reply #32 on:** June 19, 2009, 01:33:23 PM »

Innovation on that note
May I suggest a revisit to Avromenko's pat 6,104,107 and his use of the blocking capacitor typically it is used in transmission of data and relates to dc over ac signals and the probability of dc cumulative effects when signals are sent too close together and create a log jam. you going to run into the problem when you apply the idea to a real load. or at least keep it in mind for when you find yourself getting unexpected results.

altrez · « **Reply #33 on:** June 19, 2009, 03:55:37 PM »

Hello all..

I am glad you have the AC thread going. I like the idea of the Tesla coil. The AC is a very cool part of the pickup coil!

-Altrez

stprue · « **Reply #34 on:** June 19, 2009, 06:04:04 PM »

Quote from: jeanna on June 19, 2009, 03:45:06 AM

Actually jesus,

the point of showing that 2 tier circuit is NOT that there is anything sacred about it. In fact I have moved some wires and pins around a couple of times since the beginning.

The point of examining it is that it is an example of the concept Tesla was trying to put out in his 1892-4 lectures.

It is possible to have 5 different outputs and 5 different voltage/frequencies coming off ONE AC line. (more too)

This is what I want to explore.

I think when you have an ac circuit you are able to make a branch in a parallel way that delivers whatever voltage and frequency you want, just by playing with the inductors and probably some caps for extra oscillation within just that segment of the overall circuit.

This kind of thing is being done in our electronic doo dads. They have a wall wart that rectifies and steps down the voltage to 5 or 10 or 3 volts and then the appliance runs just fine.

My thinking is that we can follow that very same plan and use ac. and that way all the current returns to the source except for the eensy bit that the appliance actually took.

But this is my idea.

Please explore yours if you have a different one. And join me if you would like to.

jeanna

This sound very interesting to me and looks to be the right direction to be heading. When you say back to the source is this being done on a secondary=rectified into a battery or cap. while the primary AC is used and changed to power a load?

jeanna · « **Reply #35 on:** June 19, 2009, 06:56:35 PM »

Quote from: stprue on June 19, 2009, 06:04:04 PM

This sound very interesting to me and looks to be the right direction to be heading. When you say back to the source is this being done on a secondary=rectified into a battery or cap. while the primary AC is used and changed to power a load?

Well, this is a tricky one to answer.
The short answer is no, that is not what I mean by back to the source. I think ac has inherently a back to the source built into it. It is a hunch. I want to experiment with it.

Please let me use a water metaphor.

Compare Niagara falls(DC) with the ocean(AC).
They are both very powerful.
Rectifying and returning the energy to the source battery is akin to hauling all the water from the lower river back up to the lake so it can fall over the turbines again.

I believe we have never explored how to use the ocean.

We might scoop up a funnel full of water and use its energy as it falls through the bottom the way we do with the falls, but we do not work with the moving waves in their powerful oscillations.
The ocean is powered by cosmic forces.
Not a mystery, just very large and beyond our local walls.

I think Tesla was discovering this and he left hints.

He was strapped by the need to use sparks to produce oscillations. As I have said before, happily, we have the transistor.

@All,
I have just made a pair of drawings that may help explain what I am up to and why I used the Tesla drawings.
They are the beginning of a larger study so I am calling them study 1a, 1b.

This is new territory for me, and I am enjoying the prospect of discovering what this is about.
I appreciate any help or company in this effort/play.
And, of course, what you may want to set up may be quite different from what I do.
Just, please, if you want to rectify the output and put it into a cap or battery for later use, use the main joule thief thread next door for that.
You will get a lot more supporting company there anyway.

jeanna

nueview · « **Reply #36 on:** June 19, 2009, 07:16:49 PM »

tesla wrote an article relating this phenomina to water hammering in plumbing where all the tension is even at all points along the line at the same time stating that the speed was more inportant than the volume of flow but the secondary volume must be concidered for the pressure rise. caps may be soften this effect in the secondery circuit.
Martin

nievesoliveras · « **Reply #37 on:** June 19, 2009, 08:14:11 PM »

@all

There was this forum member asking me this question:

Quote

I am not too good at drawing circuits, and I want to ask you how it is that there is no direct line that goes to the battery from the emitter of the basic jt transistor?

I will answer it here so any other member that has the same question can benefit from the answer. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The battery is not connected directly to the base of the transistor because the winding that comes from the JT to the base called the trigger, is the one that provides the positive working voltage.

The battery positive is connected to the center tap of the JT and it is divided into two positive signals, one directed to the transistor's base and the other to the transistor collector....

Jesus

jeanna · « **Reply #38 on:** June 19, 2009, 09:28:20 PM »

Quote from: nievesoliveras on June 19, 2009, 08:14:11 PM

@all

There was this forum member asking me this question:

I will answer it here so any other member that has the same question can benefit from the answer. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The battery is not connected directly to the base of the transistor because the winding that comes from the JT to the base called the trigger, is the one that provides the positive working voltage.

The battery positive is connected to the center tap of the JT and it is divided into two positive signals, one directed to the transistor's base and the other to the transistor collector....

Jesus

Quote

I want to ask you how it is that there is no direct line that goes to the battery from the emitter of the basic jt transistor?

But it is.
The Emitter is connected to the neg of the battery.
I doubt if I will EVER forget that one!

Jesus, He didn't say the base did he? I think he said Emitter???

jeanna

jeanna · « **Reply #39 on:** June 19, 2009, 11:06:39 PM »

Oh dear,
The lights keep going out.
Maybe this is fussy.

I put a known jt - the widow- with 2 secondaries in the basic spot.
I am using the larger secondary for now.Without any load on this secondary the volts reads 32v peak to peak.

It readily lights up 4 leds in series and still shows around 24volts across the secondary leads.

So, I put a toroid wound with 2 wires into this.
The fewer wires are in the spot parallel to the leds etc, and the more wires free to be transformed up.

But when I put the new transformer into the pins, the lights go out.. If I move the transformer over one light, then only one light goes out and the voltage remaining has dropped from 24 to 3.5v or even less.

?? ??
Is this normal behavior for a transformer?

jeanna

nievesoliveras · « **Reply #40 on:** June 19, 2009, 11:34:34 PM »

Quote from: jeanna on June 19, 2009, 09:28:20 PM

But it is.
The Emitter is connected to the neg of the battery.
I doubt if I will EVER forget that one!

Jesus, He didn't say the base did he? I think he said Emitter???

jeanna

Thank you @jeanna !

You are right he said emitter.

There is no direct connection drawn from the battery to the emitter of the transistor on the schematic because the connection is made using a ground symbol on the battery negative pole and another ground symbol at the transistor's emitter.
The person reading the schematic must assume that both are connected together.
The connection is drawn symbolically.

Jesus

jeanna · « **Reply #41 on:** June 20, 2009, 07:25:30 PM »

OK test 1a and 1b didn't help, or didn't do anything except turn off the leds and stop the action in the previous parallel circuit. more work to do there, maybe.

Now, I will put a bifilar joule thief and maybe one with a secondary onto those main parallel leads.

This is basically to replicate the 2 tier, but in this more understandable circuit.

jeanna

nueview · « **Reply #42 on:** June 20, 2009, 07:49:23 PM »

hi All
just a question for possible thought why not build a double JT around a center tap transformer if the batteries are on the center tap leg and paired transistors are at the ends of the center tap coils and you take the signal from the secondary side to drive the pair of transistors in opposite directions the power should be better and the output more ac in quality having spikes both pos and neg of course the output may be something to look out for it may solve some of your power problems.
Martin

Mk1 · « **Reply #43 on:** June 20, 2009, 07:55:36 PM »

Quote from: nueview on June 20, 2009, 07:49:23 PM

hi All
just a question for possible thought why not build a double JT around a center tap transformer if the batteries are on the center tap leg and paired transistors are at the ends of the center tap coils and you take the signal from the secondary side to drive the pair of transistors in opposite directions the power should be better and the output more ac in quality having spikes both pos and neg of course the output may be something to look out for it may solve some of your power problems.
Martin

Well you can definitively do that , because that is what is done right now ...

But regular transformer are made for 60hz function , that is in my view a limiting factor , but it can also be use in a second core application to get the high freq down to 60hz...

Mark

nueview · « **Reply #44 on:** June 20, 2009, 08:27:38 PM »

@ MK1

i think you need to build one before predicting the out put will be glad to post a picture of mine any add on circuits go between the secondery coil end opposite the transister drive hookup and ground . mine runs on 12 volt but could be more or less components make the difference.
the goal was stated as getting to higher power if i got what Jeanna was saying in the post.
Martin

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