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Author Topic: Spraying Water Mist on Cigarette Lighter causes Flame to Increase in Size  (Read 8029 times)

Offline L505

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Being a non-smoker, I decided to buy some cigarette lighters.

I also bought a spray bottle.

When I spray water mist above a lighter, the flame increases in size.

If the spray is directed right on to the flame, the flame goes out (as expected).

However if the spray is directed slightly above the flame, but some of the mist still colliding into the top portion of the flame - the flame seems to develop an additional flame shell of orange brightness above the original flame.

Explanations?

This forum post may not directly have anything to do with electrolysis - but indirectly it may, and it does fit into Meyer's water mist injection system.

Now I will try the flame above the mist instead of below it.. (in case this has something to do with how clouds produce lightning with some charges at the top being different than the bottom). The only problem is gravity makes it hard to hold a flame upside down.. ughh.  Well I tried it and cannot achieve the results at the top of the water mist - but I do not know if this is because no water mist is really contacting the flame enough, or what.

Does the extra orange flame enhancement come from oxygen that the water has in it which fish drink? I do not think there is much oxygen in water but then again.. I do not know and hence why this post is here.  Does the extra orange flame enhancement come from some electrons sitting in the cloud of mist? I do not know.  Does it come from energy that water gives off to rejoin into a liquid, like how rain forms from gas? I do not know, hence why this post is here. Does the water attract more oxygen from the air somehow, causing the flame to increase in size? I doubt it but do not know.

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Offline hansvonlieven

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I should imagine something is happening here that is very similar to "Watergas generation" that was part of coal gas generation. This technology was around until the late 1950's and then was phased out.

In coal gas generation coal is burned with a limited supply of oxygen. The coal surrounding the burning parts has not enough oxygen to burn and will give off a gas that is combustible.

This gas was piped into homes. It is actually a fairly low quality gas as far as calorific value is concerned.

Then they found out something interesting. If they sprayed water into the glowing coals the red hot carbon would rip the oxygen out of the water leaving the hydrogen unburned in the resulting gas, increasing its calorific value.

This process can be carried out indefinitely as long as there is glowing coal. Obviously there is a limit to how much water you can add before you douse the flames, also the process is not free, as coal is consumed.

Hope this helps

Hans von Lieven

Edit: The process is environmentally undesirable, one of the reasons it was phased out, as the by product is Pyroligneous acid. Though useful, it is extremely polluting. It used to be discharged into rivers and streams, seeped into the groundwater and apart from the black toxic sludge it smells terrible.


Offline wojwrobel

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water mist +high temp = fuel

check this patents 4009006

chers from poland
wojsciech

Offline hansvonlieven

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water mist +high temp = fuel

check this patents 4009006

chers from poland
wojsciech

I know, but in a cigarette lighter?????

Hans von Lieven


Offline wojwrobel

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well

if you studdy the patent 4009006 you will see that it has many copper "mesh" heated and the water mist goes thru thouse mesh and its getting converted it to steam then to particles , i dont know what reaction goes over there with the copper? but as a patent ownes says it can easli fuel a 6 cylinder engine so its worth a try !!!!!!

so the cigarete lighter acts like a one of the screens "mesh"...

cheers from poland
wojsciech

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Offline newbie123

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The temperature for pyrolysis to occur is (if I remember right)  around 3000 C .. This is much hotter than a cigarette lighter flame, so I doubt that is happening.   The spray bottle might just be helping to combust the gas in the lighter.


Offline ResinRat2

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This may be related. During Fire Safety Training where I work it was always emphasized that you do not spray water on a burning liquid, such as gasoline or oil, because the water will drop under the buring liquid and cause the fire to SPREAD. I think this is what you are seeing here. The water in a fine mist encounters the burning fuel of the flame and causes it to spread out into a larger volume of gas, just like it causes burning liquid to spread.

What you are probably seeing is just a larger volume of flame, not any type of pyrolysis or molecular splitting of the water molecule.

This is just a guess; I could easily be wrong.

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Offline Davetech

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I think RR2 is closest.  In firefighting training, we were taught about water contacting burning liquids and about blevvy's (pronounced("blevvy"), is an acronym for "boiling liquid expanding vapour explosion"). 

When water is put on burning oil, it not only splashes the oil around, but it explodes into steam, increasing its volume by 1,600 times. This can throw burning oil all around the room including on the unfortunate applicator.

My take on it is the tiny droplets in the water mist are undergoing an instant steam explosion. This would kick the lighter flame around and make it look larger. The orange tint is probably due to some sodium content in the water.

Though it is tempting to think that there is some water being broken down, I don't think so. I think it is just being converted to steam.

Offline jadaro2600

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The flame may increase in size, but does it increase its energy output?

Offline newbie123

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The water creates steam which would probably  contribute to energy output

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Offline L505

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Re: Spraying Water Mist on Cigarette Lighter causes Flame to Increase in Size
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2009, 10:47:25 AM »
Hi crackpots, the answer is that at the tip and outer edge of the flame there is a high temperature area which is barely visible. When water is sprayed on the flame it cools this high temperature almost invisible purple area, which now makes it more visible as an orange/yellow color.

Nothing spectacular is happening - the flame is simply being cooled.

This is called critical analysis of your own experiment; something all you crackpots and quacks should consider doing instead of coming up with blindfold conspiracies as we see in your replies previous to this one.

I confirmed it is simply cooling the flame by looking more closely at the flame and noting there is a hot area on the outer edge of the flame which I didn't originally account for.

Offline triffid

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Re: Spraying Water Mist on Cigarette Lighter causes Flame to Increase in Size
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2009, 04:43:14 AM »
Google up "wood gas".Often a small stream of water shot into the reactor would improve the burning quality of the gas because the heat was hot enough to tear the water apart into H2 and O2.Add this to the CO being formed and you could get more power.I believe a normal lighter does not provide enough heat to tear the water apart.Triffid


Offline pese

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Re: Spraying Water Mist on Cigarette Lighter causes Flame to Increase in Size
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2009, 01:31:22 PM »
Same is: "If you shot water into Carburator.
Also German fighter have done this in WW2.
Saab have done this (as option) over Years ...
(2 liter water added for 500km drive)

NOW. 2009  Water add to Dieses,
will reduce  smoke and other dangeros substance up to 90 %  (ref: Uni Koeln (Cologne) Germany)

Google up "wood gas".Often a small stream of water shot into the reactor would improve the burning quality of the gas because the heat was hot enough to tear the water apart into H2 and O2.Add this to the CO being formed and you could get more power.I believe a normal lighter does not provide enough heat to tear the water apart.Triffid

Offline emon1

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i have 4/5 hobbis ..one of them collect Cigarette Lighter  !! i am very happy to see this post !!

thanks for sharing !!


 

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