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Author Topic: Stan Meyer Energy is Stolen from The Sun  (Read 31250 times)

L505

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Re: Stan Meyer Energy is Stolen from The Sun
« Reply #75 on: July 04, 2009, 06:49:18 AM »
You know what HB, all I've ever wanted to do is to get to the science behind Meyers WFC. And it is science not magic.

I look at all the possibilities and try to fathom what I could be missing that would make it work, unlike many who simply accept it... though can never replicate it!

I have explained much of the science, if indeed I am correct that is. I continually harped on the fact that lightening gets its energy from the wind and the sun. If Stan is getting energy from the electrons stored in water, and creating a lower energy water for the sun to recharge, he has indeed created a special battery and we can rigorously prove it through equations. But only I have provided the actual science behind "where did the electrons go and when do they get replaced chemically?" The answer is photons from the sun, or electrons from windmills will replace stan's de-electroned water.

WHETHER OR NOT THE de-electroned water actually exists and whether or not Stan is a fraud or not is still out in the open - but only I have provided the actual questions and answers that are important - the sun, the sun, the sun! Photons converted into electrons.

Ironically Stan also uses the reverse - injecting photons in, through his gas processor. H20power thinks he has solved this part but never answers the missing electron issue. I answer it by what comes out the tail pipe and how it gets recharged.

But as a scientific person, I do encourage people to disprove my photon theory. What really needs rigor from here on is the proof that water can exist in a de-electroned state out the tail pipe... and the energy required to get it to that state. It is in fact different than regular electrolysis because regular electrolysis does not create this special unstable water out the tail pipe. We also need to look into our current lakes and ask whether or not some unstable water already exists from lightening storms that didn't go the best they could with regards to discharging and equilibrium.  If this water phenomena exists in nature too, it gives us more evidence that water with missing electrons is possible.

We also have to ask whether our air will be harmed and will it be missing electrons if our atmosphere tries to make equilibrium with the vapor out the tail pipe.  Which electrons will jump first, when this de-electroned water goes out the tail pipe? Which ones will stabilize the water? hopefully the sun and traffic lights shining down on the car will simply provide us photons near immediately, and that is how most of the unstable water will be recharged. That would reduce the costs of storing the "bad de-electroned exhaust water" on farms to recharge in large pools.


L505

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Re: Stan Meyer Energy is Stolen from The Sun
« Reply #76 on: July 04, 2009, 07:11:16 AM »
It is common knowledge and well known science that photons will be absorbed by atoms and raise electrons to higher orbits (energy levels), but it takes an exact amount of energy to raise an electron to a higher energy level. Likewise photons are emitted by atoms if an electron drops to a lower energy level. This is accepted science.

The vapor coming out the tail pipe is low energy because the flame never succeeded in stabilizing like a regular flame would. The energy that a regular flame from a match takes, comes from the electrons in the atoms jumping levels. The energy that Stan's flame takes is stopped. The flame creates a special vapor that is low energy. The vapor then turns into a low energy fluid, or remains as a low energy vapor - the sun then provides the missing electrons, which is the question that needed to be answered all along. What happened to the missing electrons? How did Stan get away with extracting electrons - why didn't the electrons simply go back where they wanted to be? He created a condition where the flame was not like a regular flame that you see from a match. The energy comes from the SUN. But it could also come from wind mills or fossil fuels if need be.


L505

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Re: Stan Meyer Energy is Stolen from The Sun
« Reply #77 on: July 04, 2009, 07:21:17 AM »
I don't think voltage can effect an electrons orbit, it has to be a photon particle. Voltage is only potential energy, a photon is a particle of energy. It is the electron that absorbs or emits a photon in order to make a transition between energy levels. Every electron energy level in every atom requires a specific discrete amount of energy to make a transition, this is why only photons of certain frequencies are absorbed or emitted by orbiting electrons. Incidentaly, if an outer electron absorbs too much energy it can free itself from the atom altogether, and, I believe, in this state the electron is free to attain much higher energy levels.

The photon particle is what the Gas processor is all about. 

There is indeed energy required to dislodge electrons. The question is, when we burn the hydrogen, can we create a powerful flame not like a regular flame which just converts everything back into regular water. A powerful flame that does not recombine the hydrogen/oxygen into regular water? Then we have found the energy source that Stan was tapping into. Water has energy available in it only if we can steal the energy through mass. Electrons have mass. Without the water turning back into water again, what do we have? A loss of mass. A consumption of the electrons in water mass.

A fraudulent perpetual motion machine would steal the energy from water and out the tail pipe we would have regular water again. But, the question is can we put something out the tailpipe that is not water. Then we have a proper chemical equation to work with. Water that is missing electrons and therefore we can restore the lost energy through the sun, or windmills.  Is the flame very special, in that the flame is not a regular flame that creates low energy water - instead it creates low low low low low energy water that cannot even really be classified as water. It is ionic mist that is at even lower energy level. This low low low energy level mist is then recharged by the sun or windmills - law of conservation satisfied.

L505

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Re: Stan Meyer Energy is Stolen from The Sun
« Reply #78 on: July 04, 2009, 07:34:35 AM »
This is not so though is it, because the voltage itself is the result of a build up of charges on the plate of a capacitor. The capacitor might not pass electrons, but it is the electrons that provide the potential difference between the plates.

It is the electrons that have gone missing that provide a potential difference in Stan's system. The electrons gone missing mean that the Sun has to replace them (or windmills, or even fossil fuels) at some point later.

There is current flow in Stan's system. It is after the water comes out the pipe and the sun shoots photons into the water to recharge it. That is where the current is.

Stan's vapor that comes out of the pipe can be thought of as a solar panel in fluid form being expelled, or a solar battery that has been discharged by the vehicle and now needs recharging once it comes out the pipe. This obeys laws of conservation and is what is needed to satisfy rigorous physicists and mathematicians.

The question is does the flame which does not actually act as a normal flame, exist in the combustion chamber? is Stan not a fraud, then? A regular flame emits several photons and heat and just creates regular water! What happens in a different flame? Stans flame emits more photons and heat because the ash is not water with equal electrons - the electrons were taken, and it is not a low energy ash out the tail pipe - it is an EXTREMELY LOW LOW energy ash out the tail pipe. See the difference? Lower ash than water is created (therefore more energy stolen, that needs to be replaced to obey conservation of energy).

This energy that is used to power the vehicle needs to be conserved and it is replaced by sun photons out the tail pipe or collected for farms with big pools to recharge.


L505

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Re: Stan Meyer Energy is Stolen from The Sun
« Reply #79 on: July 04, 2009, 07:41:16 AM »
Agreed voltage alone without the passage of current can influence other charged particles or bipolar molecules, etc, without current flowing. But, unless insulated in some way, as soon as any charged particle reaches the source of the voltage, it will interact, exchange charges and effectively we will get current flow.

This is why Meyer's WFC has yet to be explained. I've no doubt that the electric field caused by high voltages on the plates will cause water to ionise, but that only gives us H+ and OH-. How does Meyer explain how we get from this point to the evolution of H2 and O2, without the H+ and OH- ions exchanging charges at the electrodes and hence current flowing?

Stan does not want current to flow or the h2 and 02 to be evolved. He wants the unstable substance to be created and electrons to be consumed (extracted) so that they are not available for recombining. Since the electrons are stolen, there is an unstable flame and an unstable vapor ash that is produced - even lower energy than water. Water is low energy, but it can go even lower. This low energy water must then be recharged by the sun or the wind, or even fossil fuels. What is created is an ash that is more of an ash than regular water.


L505

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Re: Stan Meyer Energy is Stolen from The Sun
« Reply #80 on: July 04, 2009, 07:44:29 AM »
However, as interesting as this phenomena might be, I'm not sure it is of any real use to us in regards to hydrogen and oxygen production, because we still need to exchange charges somewhere to get from H+ and OH- to H2 and O2!

Why not just hold a match or spark some of the H+ or OH- and see what low energy ash you create, instead of providing higher energy plentiful electron h2 and O2 substances.  But you have to extract electrons to keep it unstable in lower energy. Those electrons once extracted, luckily are something we can use: electricity. But, that's not all - we get a different than expected flame, when we burn something that is unstable. What happens when an atomic bomb burns - is it like lighting a match to wood? Is the flame in an atomic bomb a regular flame? Why not? Mass is missing.


Work in progress: low energy ash exhaust theory:

What happens when we burn unstable H and O and do not have as many electrons available? We are forced to form something that is not water - rather a closely nit together lattice, a thickly bonded lower energy water. More covalent bonds shared. What do MORE BONDS mean? A LOWER ENERGY ASH then regular water. The more bonds we have, the lower the energy. Water is low energy state because there are some h2o bonds. But even lower energy is MORE bonds and more sharing taking place. This LOW ENERGY ash is the key. If unstable water molecule has electron stolen from the hydrogen section, this leaves positive hydrogen to latch on to not one oxygen but two oxgens if it can form a lattice fence. The positive hydrogens can timeshare two oxygens instead of one oxygen and you have extremely low energy since it is not H2O but a gigantic fence. 

Whether this low energy ash is toxic is my question, and I also wonder if it really exists or whether it is a mistake THOUGHT up by someone who was hoping it existed but didn't know for sure.

If mass is missing, then where did it go and must we replace it? We took the mass by stealing the electrons from water. We replace it by converting photons to electrons, by using the sun to recharge the low energy ash that came out the tail pipe. Similar to a solar panel, but a very special solar battery this water is.

Water is a low energy ash - but what is a lower energy ash than water? Lower than low. Bonded water lattice composed of stacked up molecules with an odd timeshare system. Out the tail pipe comes a lower ash than water which is lacking electrons and therefore must form a different timeshare. With a different timeshare there must have been more energy released because the more bonds there are formed in the flame, the more energy had to be released. With more timeshares it means the energy had to be given off which moves the car. When the sun hits this low energy ash once it comes out the tail pipe, the low energy ash wants to be regular water again because more electrons are added via photons ramming in to it. The odd timesharing lattice breaks into a higher energy water (yes water is higher energy in this case then our low energy ash). The key to this technology may be to rid our brains of thinking that WATER IS THE LOWEST ENERGY ASH WATER CAN BE ONCE HYDROGEN IS BURNED. What can we do to create a lower energy ash, even lower than regular water? Create more bonds with less electrons and more timesharing.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2009, 10:09:51 AM by L505 »

L505

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Re: Stan Meyer Energy is Stolen from The Sun
« Reply #81 on: July 04, 2009, 11:28:17 AM »
.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2009, 11:58:32 AM by L505 »

L505

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Re: Stan Meyer Energy is Stolen from The Sun
« Reply #82 on: July 05, 2009, 09:25:27 AM »
"FREE RADICAL FORMATION

    Atoms are most stable in the ground state. An atom is considered to be "ground" when every electron in the outermost shell has a complimentary electron that spins in the opposite direction. By definition a free radical is any atom (e.g. oxygen, nitrogen) with at least one unpaired electron in the outermost shell, and is capable of independent existence (13). A free radical is easily formed when a covalent bond between entities is broken and one electron remains with each newly formed atom (13). Free radicals are highly reactive due to the presence of unpaired electron(s). The following literature review addresses only radicals with an oxygen center. Any free radical involving oxygen can be referred to as reactive oxygen species (ROS). Oxygen centered free radicals contain two unpaired electrons in the outer shell. When free radicals steal an electron from a surrounding compound or molecule a new free radical is formed in its place. In turn the newly formed radical then looks to return to its ground state by stealing electrons with antiparallel spins from cellular structures or molecules. Thus the chain reaction continues and can be "thousand of events long." (7). The electron transport chain (ETC), which is found in the inner mitochondrial membrane, utilizes oxygen to generate energy in the form of adenosine triphosphate (ATP). Oxygen acts as the terminal electron acceptor within the ETC. The literature suggests that anywhere from 2 to 5% (14) of the total oxygen intake during both rest and exercise have the ability to form the highly damaging superoxide radical via electron escape. During exercise oxygen consumption increases 10 to 20 fold to 35-70 ml/kg/min. In turn, electron escape from the ETC is further enhanced. Thus, when calculated, .6 to 3.5 ml/kg/min of the total oxygen intake during exercise has the ability to form free radicals (4). Electrons appear to escape from the ETS at the ubiqunone-cytochrome c level (14)."

Stan talks about a chain effect in Colorado lecture. The same chain effect is seen with free radicals as shown above from science article. Therefore one cannot say Stan was not talking scientifically - he did talk about science in his lectures, such as this free radical phenomenon of unstable substances.

http://www.exrx.net/Nutrition/Antioxidants/Introduction.html


This is one reason I am concerned about toxicity because free radicals are not so good to have in our water supply.

alan

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Re: Stan Meyer Energy is Stolen from The Sun
« Reply #83 on: July 05, 2009, 01:09:15 PM »
However, as interesting as this phenomena might be, I'm not sure it is of any real use to us in regards to hydrogen and oxygen production, because we still need to exchange charges somewhere to get from H+ and OH- to H2 and O2!
I gave this a thought:
2h2o and 2h2 + o2 have an equal amount of eletrons in stable state, right?
2h2o = 20 electrons, 2h2 = 4, o2 = 16,
so the amount of electrons before and after the process is in equillibrium [pls correct me if i'm wrong, how can a commercial wfc as a battery deliver electricty then?].

charge exchange is required in the standard electrolysis/hydrolysis process like you pointed out, I think this electron is delivered by the water itself due to voltage ionization.

according to this patent [tay hee hau], electrolysis without external charge exchange is possible, it's caused by ionization by collision:
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=DYo5AAAAEBAJ&dq=4427512

not to forget that every electron put into the water, is taken out at the other electrode