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Author Topic: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications  (Read 215904 times)

Offline Pageygeeza

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #60 on: June 10, 2009, 11:31:15 AM »
Right, this is weird. I've assembled a makeshift motor:  Even though the magnets and coils are facing the same direction I would have thought I would be generating DC when I take the drive power off, but I'm generating AC.  From what I can see, the coils are pushing power in both directions.

I'm now confused

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #60 on: June 10, 2009, 11:31:15 AM »

Offline baroutologos

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #61 on: June 10, 2009, 12:18:46 PM »
Impedance Contribution to Mr. T. effect.
............................................................

I was analysing the collected data so far from my noobish experiment. Note that concrete findings could not be enstablised but are good indicators for experiementing orientation.

So, topic is Impedance here. How much does affect the HV coils accelaration threshold?

We all know that with few turns of wire say 10 ( ;D) over a given core, one should never hope to achieve accelaration, unless rotor speed reaches astronomical speeds. So impedance is a key part of the process. Hence, the coil should have "enough turns" so as the mr T phainomenon to manifest easily.

But, in real life setups, impedance comes with resistance. As I discussed in previous replies i have been experimenting with 2 coils. Using software "coil maestro" i calculated coils impedances. By no means those are the actual values since i use iron wires with too much spacing between them. But, it is a good indicator of the actual coil's impedances.

restating
...........

coil 1: height 55mm, core opening 13mm, R  = 75 ohms (of 0.3mm wire), 8mm layer thickness
At 110 Hz (1100 rotor speed) accellarates and produces 105+vAC and 0.13A current at short. Impedance around 100mH (indication)

coil 2: same phisical dimensions, R = 110+ ohms same wire, 11mm layer thickness. At 110 Hz it deccellarates while producing 120+Vac and 0.085A current at short. Impedance around 200mH (indication)

Why is that?
....................................................
Why the coil B deccellarates at 110 Hz whereas it must accellarate from, say, 90 Hz? Note that i do not talk about accellaration's power. I talk about even the manifestation of accellaration itself.

My conclusions
...................................................
Impedance is necessary, but it must be carefully balanced to the resistance produced. Because not only a higher impedance with a consequent  higher resistance will give poorer accelaration, but, but maybe won't give accellaration at all and break the system.

From results so far I think Hoaptod has right in his claims. It is the impedance to resistance ratio that makes the difference in power generation terms.

regards,
Baroutologos


Offline Pageygeeza

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #62 on: June 10, 2009, 01:41:21 PM »
Right, still can't figure it out, but.....

Using 5 of my DIY coils and the 18v Drill battery, it's getting a trifle dangerous.  As the high speed is making the magnets pop out.  I really need to find the rpm of that blasted thing.

Offline hoptoad

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #63 on: June 10, 2009, 02:58:57 PM »
A diversity of physical configurations can manifest the acceleration effect.

Heres one of many other differing designs with the same effect, though the configuration is markedly different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_LsOyEchrA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LfjLwLAJUY&feature=related

Note that in his second experiment he is stepping up the output voltage, not stepping down.

Cheers


Offline minde4000

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #64 on: June 10, 2009, 04:05:04 PM »
@Baroutologos

If you need bobbin cores check out a nice selection at www.cosmocorp.com They say minimum order is 20 pieces for $5 each.

Minde
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #64 on: June 10, 2009, 04:05:04 PM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #65 on: June 10, 2009, 04:31:24 PM »
Right, this is weird. I've assembled a makeshift motor:  Even though the magnets and coils are facing the same direction I would have thought I would be generating DC when I take the drive power off, but I'm generating AC.  From what I can see, the coils are pushing power in both directions.

I'm now confused

Keep in mind that the induced (generated) voltage is directly related to the direction of movement. When the magnet is approaching the coil/core the voltage is of one polarity...when the coil/core is directly over the magnet there is zero induced voltage... when the coil/core is receding,(leaving) the voltage is of the opposite polarity (to the approach).

Ron

Offline Pageygeeza

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #66 on: June 10, 2009, 06:09:08 PM »
Thanks for the clarification.

This is the motor so far:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X8rlB5kOOI

I have the multimeter connected to the start and end of the coil series and when I apply the 18v battery it reads 10-11v.  When I release the battery it then reads 5v.  Couldn't tell you if it's any good or not.  But I wouldn't be surprised if I could get it to over 2000rpm on the 18v, I keep chickening out because I think the magnets'll fly out.  And trust me, at that speed I don't think i'd like to hang around if they do shoot out.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #66 on: June 10, 2009, 06:09:08 PM »
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Offline nvisser

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #67 on: June 10, 2009, 07:49:59 PM »
can anybody explain (or refer me to previous posts regarding) HC COILS and INNER AND OUTER HV COILS

Offline i_ron

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #68 on: June 11, 2009, 01:06:22 AM »


This is the motor so far:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X8rlB5kOOI


Hey, runs pretty good! But yes, always the danger that the magnets will fly out. One reason why I prefer axial designs,

Ron

Offline baroutologos

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #69 on: June 11, 2009, 09:28:41 AM »
Thanks Minde for the Bobbin info.

Now i need to procure, some I laminations with the following characteristics.
High magnetic flux permeatability & low eddie-hysteresis losses.
As mr T's laminated "fingers"
Anyone knows any shop on line?

Regards,
Baroutologos

ps: I bet I_ron knows :P

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #69 on: June 11, 2009, 09:28:41 AM »
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Offline Pageygeeza

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #70 on: June 11, 2009, 12:49:30 PM »
Hey, thanks i_Ron. :D

Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #71 on: June 11, 2009, 01:51:40 PM »

when the coil/core is directly over the magnet there is zero induced voltage...

Ron

WHEN THE COIL/CORE IS DIRECTLY OVER THE MAGNET THE INDUCED VOLTAGE IS MAXIMUM NOT ZERO.

AS THE COIL/CORE MOVES AWAY FROM THE MAGNET THE POLARITY CHANGES AND THE VOLTAGE BEGINS TO FALL TOWARDS ZERO.

THE INDUCED VOLTAGE DROPS TO ZERO WHEN THE COIL/CORE IS EXACTLY HALF WAY BETWEEN THE NEXT MAGNET ON THE ROTOR.

IF THE NEXT MAGNET ON THE ROTOR IS AN OPPOSITE POLE THEN THE INDUCED VOLTAGE WILL PROCEED ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE Y AXIS ZERO POINT.

IF THE NEXT MAGNET ON THE ROTOR IS THE SAME POLARITY THEN THE INDUCED VOLTAGE WILL REMAIN ON ONE SIDE OF THE Y AXIS I.E. DC.

A MONO-POLE ROTOR WILL PRODUCE A DC "SINE WAVE" BUT IT IS ONLY ONE ONE SIDE OF THE SINE WAVE AXIS.


I AM PUTTING THIS HERE SO PEOPLE WILL INDERSTAND HOW THE HV COIL CAUSES ACCELERATION.

AT TOP DEAD CENTRE I.E. "when the coil/core is directly over the magnet" THE MAGNET IS NEITHER APPROACHING NOR RECEDING FROM THE COIL/CORE AND THE INDUCED VOLTAGE IN THE COIL IS MAXIMUM.

IT IS ONLY WHEN THE MAGNET IS APPROACHING OR RECEDING AWAY FROM THE COIL/CORE THAT THERE IS IMPEDANCE (AC RESISTANCE) IN THE COIL AND MINIMAL CURRENT FLOW.

AT TDC THE INDUCTIVE REACTANCE IS ZERO (COIL'S FREQUENCY DEPENDANT AC RESISTANCE) AND THE COIL'S IMPEDANCE (INDUCTIVE REACTANCE + DC RESISTANCE) TO CURRENT FLOW DROPS TO THE DC RESISTANCE OF THE COIL.

SO NOW AT TDC WHEN THE INDUCED VOLTAGE IS MAXIMUM (NOT ZERO) AND THE COIL'S IMPEDANCE IS MINIMAL - MAXIMUM CURRENT CAN FLOW AND PRODUCE THE MAXIMUM DELAYED MAGNETIC FIELD REQUIRED TO PUSH THE NOW REDEEDING MAGNET AWAY WITH ADDITIONAL FORCE.

SO IT SHOULD BE CLEAR THAT IF THE COIL'S INDUCED VOLTAGE AT TDC WAS ZERO THERE WOULD BE NO CURRENT AND NO MAGNETIC FIELD PRODUCTION AND NO ROTOR ACCELERATION.

T
 


Offline hoptoad

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #72 on: June 11, 2009, 02:50:23 PM »
WHEN THE COIL/CORE IS DIRECTLY OVER THE MAGNET THE INDUCED VOLTAGE IS MAXIMUM NOT ZERO.

T

LOL .......

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/worksheets/acgen.html

Go and read question 7 then Click on Reveal Answer.
Particularly read the notes in the answer section.

LOL ... I'm with I_Ron on this one.

Offline baroutologos

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #73 on: June 11, 2009, 03:11:31 PM »
I am with mr T. regarding voltage and magnet possitioning, although i do not agree fully. I have some experience with same pollar generators (as my current setup is) and they create a full sine wave of less amptitude than alternating pole setup. (Note that between magnets, no matter what the spacing is there is a scallar opposite pole of less power)

Anyway, at TDC voltage is not zero.

Could not be zero.
If voltage was zero then Peripeteia (as well as many other devices) could never work, since impedance has choked current and afterwards, no voltage exists to push electrons in the desired direction.

So following this reasoning we can conclude safely there is voltage at TDC.

Regards,
Baroutologos


Offline wattsup

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #74 on: June 11, 2009, 03:24:26 PM »
@hoptoad

I agree with this as AC but not DC. I will take Thanes stance on this for my post because but either way is understandable.

@TH

Thanks or breaking down the mag passage into fragments showing TDC = Maximum. This is just reinforcing what I posting earlier.

If the TDC is maximum, we can agree that you will never get any more then the maximum, so the high end of the wave is fixed and can only play on frequency. What can be played with is how low you can go to get as close to the Zero Point, hence producing the greatest sweep of extremes possible.

One side remark, when the magnets are placed in a tight circle, I have found that even though one would suppose that each magnet keeps its individual magnetic strength, there is a phenomenon we have seen that I have called "crowning" of the magnets where all the magnets converge into one circular field going all the way to the center of the rotor wheel. As if each magnet is now spread out further in a more homogeneous field. But if you have a set magnetic strength and you spread this strength out further, one can surmise that the actual direct applied magnetic strength will be lower.

But here is my main point, since the magnets are placed one immediately beside the other, there is no possibility of actually getting close to the zero point, since as one magnet is half off the core, the other magnet is already on the just cleared half. This means no zero possible. You are probably sweeping between maximum being 100% and 40%-50% at best. But no where near 0%.

For the sweep to reach its greatest spread, the distance between each magnet would have to be at least equal to the coils core diameter. Even then it would not be 0% because the magnets field of influence goes further out then the magnet itself, but for clarity sake, let's say such an influence is minimal.

Example: If you had two rotors with let's say 8 or 10 magnets on each with good spacing in between and the coils are placed so that the magnet passage over two coils is one side, other side in succession, each side would have maximum zeroing potential while still placing the same amount of total magnets across the same total number of coils. Just thinking out load.

***************************

On another note, I read that thread that someone posted of that other forum. Seems like you were getting clobbered by that one member. Life is definitely not easy when you are in inventor mode, being treated like that.

I think your main problem is one of marketing, which I am very familiar with. How do you sell this idea. How do you explain this idea in the simplest and most understandable way that even a 7 year old child could understand it. That's what you need to convey.

Maybe consider that Perepetia should not be considered a free energy device but it is a way of increasing motor efficiency to a point that free energy "could" be more possible. Not that it is, but could be a possible step towards OU. If you took this stance, then others will stop attacking you and look at this as a potential step towards an OU device and this will mean others can then participate in this research with a view of advancing it further.

Otherwise you will always have a difficult time explaining this when guys see 34 watts output and 240 watts input, the correlation of this being non OU is too flagrant and will be difficult to explain.

If you concentrate on the fact that if this was solely a magnet to coil issue, that motor was consuming 600 watts and never had enough power to produce even 1 watt, but with the Perepetia method, it is producing a good 34 watts, this is where you need to concentrate your explanations.

Just thinking out load again.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #74 on: June 11, 2009, 03:24:26 PM »

 

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