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Author Topic: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications  (Read 218840 times)

Offline Asymatrix

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #45 on: June 09, 2009, 01:48:34 AM »
New video 'Conventional vs regenerative acceleration generator'

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #45 on: June 09, 2009, 01:48:34 AM »

Offline baroutologos

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2009, 10:38:37 AM »
Hello again,

You must excuse my initial frustration since the damned motor failed to my expectations. I_ron was right. I have many things to learn from that, in low-medium rpm region.

So I had some interesting experiments past weekend and want to share info and actual findings.

Not taking into consideration the input power, feeding the inefficient motor as much as possible, i managed to achieved some 1200+ rpm. And, yes there was accelaration. I repeat, I confirm accelaration, as Mr T claimed. I do not own yet a tachymeter but its easy to see it by the increasing voltage produced due to rmp increase.

My coil specs: 55mm height, 13mm core stuffed with wire rods (33) insulated each other, wound smoothly (with a drill) with 0.3mm enameled wire @ 72 ohms.

As before, 0.13 more or less current was oscillated in that coil (AC) at 105+ volts


Regards,
Baroutologos
« Last Edit: June 09, 2009, 11:26:27 AM by baroutologos »


Offline baroutologos

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2009, 12:05:43 PM »
First Impressions
......................................................................
Shorting means smoother action
.....................................................................

As mr T repeatedly said, the HV coil when shorted in the low rpm region (that's relative, for my case >900 rpm) showed a remarkable decelaration.
Between 900-1100 the shorted coil made no difference to rpm, whereas above 1100 it started slowly to accelarate. (not much though)

By the way, no matter what the rpm, (accelaration or deccelaration) when the coil remains unshorted infront the spinning rotor of neos there is signifficant vibration and noise in the whole structure.
When shorted, (accelarating or deccelarating) the vibration and cogging action just vanishes! It goes as if it is "lubricated", in a smooth fashion. Interesting effect...


HV coil shorted accelarates, if loaded then deccelarates!
....................................................................................

I reapetedly made the same experiment and observation. With two coils so far.
There is a peculiar property of the HV coil. When shorted and goes to accelaration mode, you can measure the current that oscillates in it. (mine had 0.13 Amps AC through it)
Notice i use the term "oscillating" current through it.

The bizzare thing is that, if you apply to the HV coil an signifficant load that restrain its oscillating current, (form 130 ma to 60 ma via an 1K ohm load) not only accelaration does vanishes, BUT, it start to act as a normal HC coil. (brake)

Notice that i did not reached those coclusions easily. But to my setup at least it more than obvious.

Bottom line, if I want to harvest any power from my HV coil, it must be done in such way as to impose as low as possible impedance to the oscillating current.

(Note the max outputted power that my HV coil can deliver in a 1kohm resistance and acts as a break is 3 watts, whereas if i connect it to charge a batt via a FWBR i can harvest almost 1watt with minimal if any deccelaration)

Regards,
Baroutologos

Offline hoptoad

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2009, 12:13:51 PM »
First Impressions
......................................................................
Shorting means smoother action
.....................................................................

As mr T repeatedly said, the HV coil when shorted in the low rpm region (that's relative, for my case >900 rpm) showed a remarkable decelaration.
Between 900-1100 the shorted coil made no difference to rpm, whereas above 1100 it started slowly to accelarate. (not much though)

By the way, no matter what the rpm, (accelaration or deccelaration) when the coil remains unshorted infront the spinning rotor of neos there is signifficant vibration and noise in the whole structure.
When shorted, (accelarating or deccelarating) the vibration and cogging action just vanishes! It goes as if it is "lubricated", in a smooth fashion. Interesting effect...


HV coil shorted accelarates, if loaded then deccelarates!
....................................................................................

I reapetedly made the same experiment and observation. With two coils so far.
There is a peculiar property of the HV coil. When shorted and goes to accelaration mode, you can measure the current that oscillates in it. (mine had 0.13 Amps AC through it)
Notice i use the term "oscillating" current through it.

The bizzare thing is that, if you apply to the HV coil an signifficant load that restrain its oscillating current, (form 130 ma to 60 ma via an 1K ohm load) not only accelaration does vanishes, BUT, it start to act as a normal HC coil. (brake)

Notice that i did not reached those coclusions easily. But to my setup at least it more than obvious.

Bottom line, if I want to harvest any power from my HV coil, it must be done in such way as to impose as low as possible impedance to the oscillating current.

(Note the max outputted power that my HV coil can deliver in a 1kohm resistance and acts as a break is 3 watts, whereas if i connect it to charge a batt via a FWBR i can harvest almost 1watt with minimal if any deccelaration)

Regards,
Baroutologos

Re read (if you have already) the experiment outlined on my website:
       http://www.totallyamped.net/adams
Read page 10 for the experiment and read page 11 for the explanation of results.

Your observations regarding rpm and load values are already covered on page 10 using incremental steps in loading and showing in graphical form what the expected result will be.

Cheers





Offline baroutologos

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2009, 12:30:27 PM »
Experiments with a new HV coil
.................................................................

I decided to go up in HV coil turns so as to achieve accelaration from lower rpm. Oddly enough, in my setup it turned out that not to be the case.

I made a similar dimensions, same core, magnet gap etc HV coil wound with the same manner 0.3mm enameled wire at 113ohm this time.

I decided to mount it on the rotor next to the other working HV coil. (see previous posts for specs)

Findings
........................................................
With this one even though of greater impedance and higher generating voltage (120 vAC vs 100 vAC) the accelaration effect failed to manifest in the >1100 region.

From rough estimations and assuming that it has a similar behaviour to the other one, it should go above 1500rpm to do the trick, (my estimation). I was surpised to see that.

First conclusions
.......................................................
The HV effect (or Mr T. effect :P) it seems to be an superficial one that happens on the surface of the iron that gets-magnetized/demagnetized constantly and NOT be totally independent of the coil's impedance.

I now firmly believe (and i plan to prove it) that above a critical layer thickness over the iron core (that transfers the magnetic flux from magnet to windings) the surplus layers are just a burden, contributing at "loading the HV coil and diminishing the effect.

On the other hand, for that critical layer height that there is an active magnetization/demagnetization action zone you must have an "sufficient" number of turns to easily initiate the event. The more, the easier.(lower rpm initiation, higher voltage generation,but lower oscillating current and vice versa)

You can now understand what i suggest by observations only.

But, i need you people to verify or invalidate my findings that so as all to be on the same side.

Regards,
Baroutologos 
« Last Edit: June 09, 2009, 12:52:44 PM by baroutologos »

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2009, 12:30:27 PM »
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Offline hoptoad

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2009, 01:04:49 PM »
The HV effect (or Mr T. effect :P) it seems to be an superficial one that happens on the surface of the iron that gets-magnetized/demagnetized constantly and be independent of the coil's impedance.

I firm believe (and i plan to prove it) that above a critical layer thickness over the iron core (that transfers the magnetic flux from magnet to windings) the surplus layers are just a burden, contributing at "loading the HV coil and diminishing the effect.

On the other hand, for that critical layer height that there is an active magnetization/demagnetization action you must have an "sufficient" number of turns to easily initiate the event. The more, the easier.(lower rpm initiation, higher voltage generation, lower oscillating current and vice versa)

You can now understand what i suggest by observation.

But, i need you people to verify or invalidate that so as all to be on the same side.

Regards,
Baroutologos

Now your getting on the right track.
It is, however, still impedance dependant, but it is not the actual inductive reactance (impedance) that is the main factor, it is the resistance to inductive reactance (impedance) ratio of the coil that is more important. The lower, the better.

You are correct in your observation, that beyond a certain number of layers, the effect becomes redundant.

Each new layer on a coil adds more resistance than inductance to the coil as a whole, because the circumference of the windings is larger and therefore each winding is longer and more resistive.

The ratio of resistance to inductance added by each new winding gets higher with each new layer.

Cheers


Offline baroutologos

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2009, 01:59:17 PM »
Now your getting on the right track.
It is, however, still impedance dependant, but it is not the actual inductive reactance (impedance) that is the main factor, it is the resistance to inductive reactance (impedance) ratio of the coil that is more important.

Geez Hoaptod!

I saw my mistake and modify it, but you managed to reply before modification. Yes, indeed is impedance dependent (see corrected article) but only it matters inside the magnetization-demagnetization zone, as far as i can tell.

regards,
Baroutologos

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2009, 01:59:17 PM »
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Offline baroutologos

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #52 on: June 09, 2009, 02:15:19 PM »
An anomaly in contrast to Mr Heins experiments
.................................................................

My first working HV coil i modified it. On the circumference i added thick iron wire so as to make another iron "core".
On top of the wire i added some 3-4 ohms HC coil that is wound with 22AWG.

When rotor full speed (1100rpm) it outpus some 12vAC. When shorted no matter what rpm i obtain it slows down the system.

But, when the underlying HV coil is shorted then the HC coil output diminishes to 3-4 vac instead of boosting it. Thane managed by having an HV coil shorted to boost an overlying HC coil's output.
 ???

In my setupnot the case. Perhaps my poor topology is to be attributed for this.

Regards,
Baroutologos 

Offline i_ron

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #53 on: June 09, 2009, 05:13:41 PM »
Re read (if you have already) the experiment outlined on my website:
       http://www.totallyamped.net/adams
Read page 10 for the experiment and read page 11 for the explanation of results.

Your observations regarding rpm and load values are already covered on page 10 using incremental steps in loading and showing in graphical form what the expected result will be.

Cheers

Toad that hops,

Thanks for putting up your link here. For those that have not reviewed this information I must add that HT (hop toad) has had this information up well before TH (thane heins)

It is very germane to the discussion. That said I admit my attempt at replication of hoppies work (BT =before thane) was so dis similar that my results were also, lol I must try this one day and stick to the design more closely.

To understand Mr T's work, do this experiment first.

Welcome to the list Toad, I am sure you will receive a better response here than on the previous list.... ::)

Ron


Offline i_ron

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #54 on: June 09, 2009, 05:16:05 PM »
An anomaly in contrast to Mr Heins experiments
.................................................................


Regards,
Baroutologos

Baroutologos,

What I find amazing is the great job your pulse motor is doing for you! I like it.

Ron

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #54 on: June 09, 2009, 05:16:05 PM »
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Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #55 on: June 09, 2009, 08:46:40 PM »
Now your getting on the right track.
It is, however, still impedance dependant, but it is not the actual inductive reactance (impedance) that is the main factor, it is the resistance to inductive reactance (impedance) ratio of the coil that is more important. The lower, the better.

THIS INFO IS BALONEY - DON'T LISTEN TO IT...  :P
UNLESS YOU WANT SATURATED CORES.

THE IMPEDANCE HAS TO BE HIGH ENOUGH TO JUST "CHOKE" THE CURRENT AND CAUSE THE COIL TO ACT LIKE A CAPACITOR AND NOT AN INDUCTOR SO THE INDUCTIVE REACTANCE HAS TO BE HIGHER NOT LOWER.

THE RESISTANCE OF THE COIL SHOULD NOT BE TOO HIGH OR YOU WON'T GET A GOOD STRONG MAGNETIC FIELD WHEN THE COIL CAPACITANCE DISCHARGES.

YOU CAN AND SHOULD INCREASE THE NUMBER OF MAGNETS ON YOUR ROTOR... THIS WILL INCREASE THE FREQUENCY AND INCREASE THE COIL IMPEDANCE AND DECREASE THE CURRENT ALL AT THE SAME TIME, THIS WILL GIVE YOU BETTER PERFORMANCE AT LOWER RPM RANGES.

Quote
You are correct in your observation, that beyond a certain number of layers, the effect becomes redundant.

Each new layer on a coil adds more resistance than inductance to the coil as a whole, because the circumference of the windings is larger and therefore each winding is longer and more resistive.

THIS AS ALSO NOT RELEVANT HERE...  :-*

THE TRICK TO MAKING THE MULTI-LAYER COIL WORK IS TO MAKE SURE THE OUTER CORE LINES UP WITH OPPOSITE POLE MAGNETS, I.E.

S    OUTER COIL CORE

N    INNER COIL CORE

S    OUTER COIL CORE

THIS WAY WHEN THE INNER CORE DISCHARGES - IT DISCHARGES NORTH POLE FLUX INTO A CORE WHICH HAS A SOUTH POLE RECEDING.

A SOUTH POLE RECEDING = A NORTH POLE APPROACHING SO THE INNER DISCHARGING NORTH POLE FLUX ADDS TO SOUTH POLE RECEDING (NORTH POLE APPROACHING) FLUX AND DOES NOT SUBTRACT AS YOU ARE CURRENTLY EXPERIENCING.
(BTW SUBTRACT IS THE WRONG WORD, IT OUGHT TO BE REDUCE THE NET CHANGE IN FLUX INSIDE THE COIL).

SO TRY ADDING MORE MAGNETS AND LINE UP THE CORES...

ALSO WHY USE HC COILS AT ALL?

WHY NOT JUST GO WITH INNER AND OUTER HV COILS AND STEP DOWN THE OUTPUT VIA A TRANSFORMER - THAT WAY IT'S ACCELERATION ALL ROUND.  ;)

NOW WHEN THE OUTER HV COIL DISCHARGES IT INCREASES THE INNER HV COIL ACCELERATION AND VOLTAGE AND VICEY-VERSY - NOW YOU CAN EVENTUALLY STEP DOWN BOTH INNER AND OUTER COILS AND GET GREAT RESULTS!

ONE FINAL THING...
TRY VARYING THE LOADS FROM A DEAD SHORT, 1 OHM, 10 OHM, 100 OHM, 1000 OHM ETC.
THEN PLACE MULTIPLE LOADS ON IN PARALLEL - THE CLOSER THE LOADS ARE TO A DEAD SHORT I.E. INFINITE LOADS IN PARALLEL THE GREATER THE ACCELERATION.

AND ALL KIDDING ASIDE YOU GUYS - REALLY GREAT JOB HERE!  :D

CHEERS AND BEST WISHES TO ALL!
T

« Last Edit: June 09, 2009, 09:07:49 PM by CRANKYpants »

Offline baroutologos

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #56 on: June 09, 2009, 09:56:02 PM »
Thanks Mr Heins for your intervention here.
We thought you were gone for good. In the good sense of course :P
I am happy to see you back.

By the way, as you know, learning is a difficult and long procedure. I knew for sure that 12 magnets were better than 6, but i wanted to investigate the effect from scratch.

So, what i learnt so far is that in order to extract some energy out of the
HV coils you must combine:

core material
magnets number-frequency-topology, field strength, magnetic flux manipulation
reactance (impedance+resistance balance)
Current from coils should go as much un-restrained as possible.
Restraining it, not only nulls accelaration but i found HV coil impedes the system as a normal HC coil. (need idepedent verification for that)
voltage produced & oscillating current considerations (am I need high voltage lower current or
the opposite?)

Its a riddle, is not it?

Anyway, i plan to procede slowly and post results after double check them.

Regards,
Baroutologos
« Last Edit: June 10, 2009, 09:04:02 AM by baroutologos »


Offline minde4000

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #57 on: June 09, 2009, 11:43:14 PM »
I am still having problems in finding the right size E cores. Need 4.1" lenght or something close to that to match lets say NSN (3 consecutive magnets) but nobody seem to have this large. Any links or directions would be appreciated. 
Thanks

Regrds Minde

Offline baroutologos

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #58 on: June 10, 2009, 09:21:34 AM »
Good morning from Athens (Greece) :D

Its time slowly slowly to get "pro".
...........................................................
Although i am happy at using primitive laquered soft iron wires as cores, i see there is little future in them.
Can anyone suggest any decent e-store that ships internationally so as to get laminated silicon-steel fingers? (I laminations)
Are there special bobins that can fit those I fingers? (i need the wire to be as close as i can to the iron core)

Regards,
Baroutologos


Offline baroutologos

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #59 on: June 10, 2009, 09:33:26 AM »
(sorry for double post)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications
« Reply #59 on: June 10, 2009, 09:33:26 AM »

 

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