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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 823122 times)

AB Hammer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #615 on: April 14, 2009, 02:47:26 AM »
@AB Hammer,

Can you give us an example of a working gravity wheel in WM2D?

Omnibus

Join up at Besslerwheel.com and look up member KAS. He had one that looked real promising, but when built it didn't work, but it did in WM2D.

Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #616 on: April 14, 2009, 02:57:14 AM »
Omnibus

Join up at Besslerwheel.com and look up member KAS. He had one that looked real promising, but when built it didn't work, but it did in WM2D.

Do you have a link to that?

AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #617 on: April 14, 2009, 03:22:00 AM »
Do you have a link to that?

Here is a self starter, we had a discussion about it I believe a year ago..

There are more out there, I cannot explain this one, it is an unbalanced huge construction.


AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #618 on: April 14, 2009, 03:23:56 AM »
Hi Larry,

I think your first challenge is to convince anyone here that there is any centrifugal force related to this design. At least that's been my experience :).

Regards,
Charlie

Well there is an acceleration of the weight due to the curves, but the friction... always the friction will negate the energy generated by this acceleration. It is frustrating

Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #619 on: April 14, 2009, 03:26:51 AM »
Here is a self starter, we had a discussion about it I believe a year ago..

There are more out there, I cannot explain this one, it is an unbalanced huge construction.



Now we need @mondrasek to take a look at this and analyze it. Can you dig out more examples? This is really interesting.

AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #620 on: April 14, 2009, 03:52:06 AM »
Now we need @mondrasek to take a look at this and analyze it. Can you dig out more examples? This is really interesting.

Well do not get too excited, I even invited a wm2d engineer to discuss this one... He said the model was "wrong" but that it was not the program´s fault, there is a thread in here somewhere...

If you run into the limit just do start here and run again where you left off. at around 68000 frames it reaches -2.5 rad/s and then all of a sudden (like it reaches a structural limit) slows all the way down to 0, starts spinning counterclockwise  stops, and starts again.

Really weird. I do not have more, this was just the one I saved.

Makes a nice screensaver

Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #621 on: April 14, 2009, 03:54:33 AM »
@AquariuZ,

Have you tried it scaled down from 500m to 1m, for instance? One should try to write the equations governing this and see rigorously what the conditions for it to work are.

Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #622 on: April 14, 2009, 04:32:40 AM »
@AquariuZ,

Quote
He said the model was "wrong" but that it was not the program´s fault,

He hasn't said that much that engineer, has he? That's why I want to hear what @mondrasek has to say. Can you find the link? Was in on bessler.com or it was on this site? This is a very interesting structure which doesn't have springs and other stuff to complicate matters. If WM2D cannot handle this simple device what good is it? One thing, as I said, I'd like to see it substantially scaled down

hansvonlieven

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #623 on: April 14, 2009, 04:57:02 AM »
I remember the discussion with the WM2D guy at the time. He gave a lot of nonsense reasons, whatever he said did not make much sense.

My suspicion at the time was the very low mass value of the connecting piece. The engineer denied this. I told him that all you had to do was to change the mass of that piece to 1 kg or more and it would behave as expected; and that I thought there was a programme bug. At this point he became rather abusive. I left it at that.

I have a whole collection of WM2D constructs that show perpetual motion when they should not. There are a number of iteration errors, possibly caused by rounding, that are cumulative in WM2D. I think that this causes some of these problems.

Here is one example

Hans von Lieven

Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #624 on: April 14, 2009, 05:17:50 AM »
Hans,

Thanks for the example. However, turn on the air resistance (on low) and you'll see it'll behave normally. Recall several pages back I had a similar example exhibiting weird behavior, getting into instabilities even, and @mondrasek and someone else explained what the real story is. In @KAS's case, however, air resistance is turned on, it doesn't have complicated joints, springs etc. and still works. Like I said I'm waiting to hear what @mondrasek has to say on that.

persume

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #625 on: April 14, 2009, 05:51:45 AM »
I remember the discussion with the WM2D guy at the time. He gave a lot of nonsense reasons, whatever he said did not make much sense.

My suspicion at the time was the very low mass value of the connecting piece. The engineer denied this. I told him that all you had to do was to change the mass of that piece to 1 kg or more and it would behave as expected; and that I thought there was a programme bug. At this point he became rather abusive. I left it at that.

I have a whole collection of WM2D constructs that show perpetual motion when they should not. There are a number of iteration errors, possibly caused by rounding, that are cumulative in WM2D. I think that this causes some of these problems.

Here is one example

Hans von Lieven

I remember you posting about that Hans.

Grimer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #626 on: April 14, 2009, 08:12:52 AM »
I have been able to find a picture of a vertical axis Ventomobil. It on this video at 28 seconds in.

It can be seen from the video that this particular Ventomobil uses blades. In order to move closer to the mechanics of the Abeling Gravimobil we have to imagine a Ventomobil which uses Flettner rotors as the blades.

Now what in the rising weight flywheel of the Abeling Gravimobil is acting equivalent to the Flettner rotors of a vertical axis mobil and driving it into the gravitational wind? ???

It has to be the rotating entity where the mass is concentrated, i.e. the atomic nucleus. Under the action of the combined gravitational and inertial acceleration this rotation must be polarised to some extent in an analogous way to the polarization of electron when emitting Bremsstrahlung radiation at near light speed.

It is these massive rotating nuclei which are interacting with the gravitational wind and giving the flywheel the added torque - effectively reducing its gravitational mass and allowing it to "sail" directly into the gravitational wind using the power of that wind.

It rather reminds one of that Japanese art of self defence, Jujitsu.  :)

Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #627 on: April 14, 2009, 08:21:22 AM »
Did you see this from besslerwheel.com? (see attached)

mindsweeper

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #628 on: April 14, 2009, 09:04:47 AM »
Here, a working wheel of sorts. It shows the inherent problems when attempting to model a gravity wheel with polygons.

There are many others far more complex than this. And many more on besslerwheel.com (like the above post)


mindsweeper

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #629 on: April 14, 2009, 09:17:55 AM »
And this one with no polygons, works ok but in the real world?