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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 823532 times)

Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #540 on: April 13, 2009, 01:20:36 AM »
@Cherryman: in DXF..zipped :-\

TNx I will play with it!

Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #541 on: April 13, 2009, 01:21:53 AM »
Using Cherrymans wheel I can visualize the violent launch of the weights near 12 o clock position.

Now, if you can keep the weight in its socket you may have something.

There are small bursts of acceleration, but again the ball needs to be kept locked into place to get full benefit from the launch. The launch is a scissors effect.

Model attached with an initial momentum of -0.200 rad/s but WITHOUT MOTOR.

Turns for a while (friction less environ)

I´ll see if I can lock those balls

Locking is important. Good luck!

AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #542 on: April 13, 2009, 01:37:14 AM »
Locking is important. Good luck!

It seems to work, no loss for now... Must be doing something wrong

oak

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #543 on: April 13, 2009, 01:40:26 AM »
@AquiriuZ: Take picture 8 from the patent and bend back the ends near the axle, so the angle pushing the weight up has a smaller vector in the horizontal plane

Very nice animation, eisenficker.  I have to say I agree with AquiriuZ about the overall curve of the spokes.  (I am not talking about the very end part -- you might have that right.)  Look at patent diagrams 2, 4 & 5.  I imagine a spoke scooping up a weight and then hurling it, similar to a lacrosse stick hurling a ball.  The curve in the direction of travel adds speed to the weight.

Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #544 on: April 13, 2009, 01:44:06 AM »
It seems to work, no loss for now... Must be doing something wrong

The old rule of the good engineer. LOL

You are doing great. And, thanks for the translation. @Cherryman and @eisenficker2000 (who found the correct design first) are fantastic too. Keep up the good work guys. Looking forward to @Cherryman's wm2d file of @eisenficker2000 dxf's.

Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #545 on: April 13, 2009, 02:11:58 AM »
@mondrasek,

Quote
When you bring a weight on a spinning wheel inwards towards the axle, you must do work.  Spin around holding a weight at arm's length and try to pull it in.  It takes work.

Don’t forget we’re interested here only in the energy possessed by the ball (there’s no external energy anyway).

Imagine a ball lifted to point B at an elevation h with respect to the initial point A. It can get back at its initial height A by just letting it go and allowing it to drop vertically. However, if there’s a construction (constraint) which would make the ball slide sideways to the initial elevation A it would have lost the same gravitational potential energy mgh but in addition there would also be a displacement sideways which wasn’t there when there was no construction. Thus only the presence of a proper construction makes the ball lose the same energy mgh but in a different way, demonstrating a spectacular displacement sideways.

Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #546 on: April 13, 2009, 02:29:27 AM »
Here a quick one. I Used the original curves.

Have a problem with the left block, but do nat have any time anymore. Maybe someone can fixe the block

Good luck.


noonespecial

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #547 on: April 13, 2009, 02:43:38 AM »
I agree with LarryC's assessment with regard to the centrifigal force component. Also, the upper cam is not really required once the wheel reaches critical speed but is only there to lift the weights prior to reaching that speed.

i_ron

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #548 on: April 13, 2009, 03:13:10 AM »
I agree with LarryC's assessment with regard to the centrifigal force component. Also, the upper cam is not really required once the wheel reaches critical speed but is only there to lift the weights prior to reaching that speed.

To the contrary, you and Larry seem to have missed a key function here, the top part of the upper ramp
in combination with the shape of the slot act to propel the weight out into its working position. Think of a pair of scissors....

"If the system would fail to catch the propelled weight, the weight would be ejected from the system with force"

Ron.

noonespecial

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #549 on: April 13, 2009, 04:34:25 AM »
Hi Ron,

[edit]
Q: Where does the extra energy come from?
A: The weights are applied two by two: one weight is pushing/falling, the other one has to be lifted. Due to the invention of the dual lifting system, the falling/pushing weight will hardly be hindered by the weight that has to be lifted.
In the top left of the system the weight is accelerated (like with shot put). The weight is moving faster than the system, and as the system catches the weight it is propelled forward. The path of the weights in the system is determined up front so the weights are always in a fixed position relative to each other and that will reduce the drag of the lifted weight on the falling/pushing weight. The system will start rotating from any position. Extra force is generated in the lower left of the system and on top it is transferred to the system itself, generating the extra energy. If the system would fail to catch the propelled weight, the weight would be ejected from the system with force.

Nothing in here about a 'scissor' action. In fact, if there were a scissor action it would seem the additional friction would simply slow the wheel down. Instead, the propelled weight is 'moving faster than the system' (once a critical speed is reached) through the effect of centrifigal force.
[/edit]

Charlie
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 02:48:27 PM by noonespecial »

Grimer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #550 on: April 13, 2009, 05:09:38 AM »
To the contrary, you and Larry seem to have missed a key function here, the top part of the upper ramp
in combination with the shape of the slot act to propel the weight out into its working position. Think of a pair of scissors....

"If the system would fail to catch the propelled weight, the weight would be ejected from the system with force"

Ron.


It seems that the end of the hockey stick is where rotational energy (temperature) is converted into linear energy (pressure) like in cricket when a spinning ball hits the ground and you get a "shooter".

That would fit with the Carnot Cycle and

"If the system would fail to catch the propelled weight, the weight would be ejected from the system with force"

It may not be cricket but we have a spin bowler.  ;)

"The Dutch cricket team is a national cricket team representing the Netherlands. It is administered by the Koninklijke Nederlandse Cricket Bond (Royal Dutch Cricket Association) which is based in Nieuwegein in the centre of the country and is older than many renowned cricket clubs in the West Indies, Australia, and New Zealand.

Cricket has been played in the Netherlands since at least the 19th century, and in the 1860s was considered a major sport in the country. Many other sports (notably football) have long since surpassed cricket in popularity amongst the Dutch, and today there are around 6,000 cricketers in the Netherlands, making it the 25th most popular sport. The first national association, the forerunner of today's Royal Dutch Cricket Association, was formed in 1883 and the Netherlands achieved Associate Membership of the ICC in 1966."

Maybe Sjack is a bowler.  ;D


AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #551 on: April 13, 2009, 05:10:09 AM »
Good news and bad news *sigh*

It does seem to work - thats good

The "egg" and any other curves MUST be smooth as silk so the acceleration is constant and without interruptions.

So, there I had a model that actually started to turn from standstill and another with test crowns to hold the weights. And a beautiful egg.

I started swapping frame by frame and:

WM.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close

 >:( I knew of this problem when you click too fast between frames, has to do with memory paging.
I will finish this tomorrow, but for now a previous save because you guessed it: I did not save my progress.
So my last save has uncalibrated paths (smoothing) and the egg needs to move slightly to the right.
O, and only the first stopper
Model attached, good night all



AB Hammer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #552 on: April 13, 2009, 05:23:04 AM »
Greetings All

 I still don't see how it is going to work. There has to be a different effect to do this. Back when I started designing I saw the design of Dixon Vallance 1835. I see the same problem with the Sjack Abeling. My 23rd design addressed these type of problems I call it the projector wheel due to the resemblance. It requires traction tracks like some form of rubber to help the reaction, and when the balls get to the end close to the axle they keep spinning on bearings to reducing the friction then at the correct angle it grabs the rim and goes up with the belt to the top. The pulley wheels are driven from the axle in a reverse spin. At least this is the design. I believe it should answer some of your questions on the problems you will face with the Sjack Abeling wheel.

AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #553 on: April 13, 2009, 05:36:40 AM »
Reinstalled the crown stoppers couldn´t help myself.

Model without motor and speed and completely inert.

...or is it???

Hint: calibrate the egg and see what I saw.

Must sleep now birds starting to sing dammit


Grimer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #554 on: April 13, 2009, 06:14:25 AM »
The material of the weights should be concentrated on the perimeter like on a flywheel

The closer the material is towards the centre the more it is going to behave in the conventional manner of static material being lifted against gravity.

The key is in the fact that the accelerations the material is subjected to are much greater than the acceleration due to gravity. Gravity acceleration is piddling by comparison. Consequently one half of the weight is outrunning gravity and creating it's own wind which is opposite to the gravitational wind.

In effect the weights are sailing directly up into the gravitational wind.

Sailing directly into the wind is impossible, surely?

No it isn't. There was a long thread on the Steorn forum on the subject. I will have to try and dig out one of the videos which showed a propeller land model "sailing" directly into the wind.