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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 830557 times)

itanimuLLi

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #420 on: April 11, 2009, 10:09:34 PM »
how about this
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mondrasek

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #421 on: April 11, 2009, 10:22:54 PM »
Quote from: Grimer on April 11, 2009, 09:55:56 PM
Confident enough to discuss the thinking that underlies the analysis and I have no objection to you starting another thread to discuss it.

I am happy to answer questions and discuss things in a polite and calm manner. However, my experience of most forums, especially loosely moderated ones, is that when one introduces radically new viewpoints (like gravity being a vertical wind blowing steadily downward for instance) it so disturbs peoples view of things that discussions quickly dissolve into slanging matches.

And I've been in quite enough of those on the Steorn Forum.

I have been reading the history of the Bessler wheel. It provided plenty of examples of the kind of vitriolic opposition radically new ideas engender.

Thanks.  New thread here:  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7225.new#new

I have to say that yours are one of the few posts on Steorn that I bother to read.  I mainly go there to see if there is any news on that front.  Appears to be as much bickering and off topic slanging there as happens here as well.

It is because of the Bessler info that I follow these threads on gravity wheels.  All my schooling and experiments confirm a gravity wheel cannot work.  But I cannot mentally resolve the information about Bessler.  How could he have fooled so many people for so long?  I cannot dismiss all that information as just an elaborate hoax.  So I am stuck looking for what he discovered.

I truly hope that Abeling has discovered something and is not caught up in a "it should work" idea that he has only proved in parts but not as a whole.  His comments that are similar to Bessler's makes me wonder, "Did he figure out what Bessler figured out?", or, "Is he educated about Bessler and using that info to fuel his hoax/delusion?".

M.
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Grimer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #422 on: April 12, 2009, 12:01:38 AM »
Quote from: mondrasek on April 11, 2009, 10:22:54 PM
Thanks.  New thread here:  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7225.new#new

I have to say that yours are one of the few posts on Steorn that I bother to read.  I mainly go there to see if there is any news on that front.  Appears to be as much bickering and off topic slanging there as happens here as well.

It is because of the Bessler info that I follow these threads on gravity wheels.  All my schooling and experiments confirm a gravity wheel cannot work.  But I cannot mentally resolve the information about Bessler.  How could he have fooled so many people for so long?  I cannot dismiss all that information as just an elaborate hoax.  So I am stuck looking for what he discovered.

I truly hope that Abeling has discovered something and is not caught up in a "it should work" idea that he has only proved in parts but not as a whole.  His comments that are similar to Bessler's makes me wonder, "Did he figure out what Bessler figured out?", or, "Is he educated about Bessler and using that info to fuel his hoax/delusion?".

M.

If you approach Bessler's story as a piece of history and leave all your scientific prejudices behind, then in my view it is perfectly obvious that he had what he claimed and he had harvested the force of gravity, the gravitational potential, the vertical gravitational wind that blows steadily down.

It is enormously difficult to get rid of those prejudices. Even though intellectually, early in my career, I could see that the aether must exist, must hold things together, and that internal tensions were simply reduction in external pressure,  it was years before I felt it emotionally and it was only when I did feel it emotionally that I could harness the implications to my research.
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gyulasun

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #423 on: April 12, 2009, 12:18:53 AM »
Quote from: itanimuLLi on April 11, 2009, 10:09:34 PM
how about this

Very clever, I like it!

Gyula
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AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #424 on: April 12, 2009, 01:25:52 AM »
Quote from: persume on April 11, 2009, 09:18:49 PM
AquariuZ you said the white circle in the logo ( you have it pictured in black on a modification you did ) was the axle of the wheel.

Abeling marked this with "As" which is the Dutch word for "Axle".
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AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #425 on: April 12, 2009, 01:27:39 AM »
Quote from: itanimuLLi on April 11, 2009, 10:09:34 PM
how about this

Very interesting concept and probably worth a try...
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Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #426 on: April 12, 2009, 01:52:41 AM »
@itanimuLLi,

As several friends here said already, it's indeed a very interesting suggestion. I wish I knew how to model your idea with WM2D and then play with different conditions starting with elastic collision between different masses and then making it more and more inelastic.
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Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #427 on: April 12, 2009, 02:34:20 AM »
Of course, modeling with WM2D would be the easy way out. I guess, it shouldn’t be difficult for a skeptic who is versed in classical mechanics calculations to show rigorously why such proposal (@itanimuLLi’s proposal) demonstrates an impossible device. Maybe we, the proponents of the idea that devices such as this one are possible, can attempt to write the equations governing this system and prove the opposite, namely, that there are viable sets of conditions, classically, under which such device is possible. Would be interesting to see the clash of such proposals by the adherents of the pro and con. @itanimuLLi’s device gives an excellent opportunity for such classical analytical approach. This looks like a problem that would be given not exactly to first year physics students but maybe to PhD candidates (in a mainstream university it would probably sound like this – prove, using your knowledge of classical mechanics, that such device is impossible under any conditions; or that there are no conditions under which this device is possible).
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persume

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #428 on: April 12, 2009, 05:16:16 AM »
Allright let's make this interesting. I'll bet anyone $2000.00 that this device doesn't work.
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AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #429 on: April 12, 2009, 05:18:00 AM »
Where is Cherryman?

I love his inverted wheels and am using them for some great tests. Weight connected with rods looks very interesting...
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AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #430 on: April 12, 2009, 05:42:02 AM »
Quote from: persume on April 12, 2009, 05:16:16 AM
Allright let's make this interesting. I'll bet anyone $2000.00 that this device doesn't work.

Boing fails. wm2d (flimsy) attached...
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hansvonlieven

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #431 on: April 12, 2009, 08:18:13 AM »
G'day all,

For those of you that are playing around with that inner ramp idea here is probably the most interesting version. It was designed in 1835 in England by Dixon Vallance. Instead of a ramp it features a belt.

Hans von Lieven
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spinner

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #432 on: April 12, 2009, 10:29:26 AM »
Quote
After all, as Harvey has pointed out on Fizzx, there's nothing new about deriving energy from gravity. Tides do it all the time. Think of the Bessler Wheel as a human scale tide. It makes it feel more homely.  Wink

Yes, but "we all know where the energy comes from" when observing the natural tide cyclus... How about water wheels "gravitational energy"? Why they don't use this ancient concept on an "ISS", for instance?  :P


Quote from: Grimer on April 11, 2009, 01:57:15 AM
Glue is used in the manufacture of fibreglass composite. If glued composites are good enough for the wings of the A380 I guess they are good enough for a Bessler Wheel, eh!

Bessler used wood, a natural composite. But I've no doubt he would have used fibre glass if he were building his wheel today. Boat builders also used to use natural composite but have now turned to man made composite.

Yes, good points... Fibreglass has many good properties! (I know the stuff because I'm a nautical enthusiast...)

But... (You know about my language problems).... If someone says "glass", I translate it as "glass", not "fibreglass"...
I can even  distinguish a "glue" from a "resin"... So we have a glue/glass and the fibreglass/resin terms...

OK... Building a "proof of a concept" device from wood and stuff is still believable project...

But for a "MW power" producing suitable materials...

...
So, Henkel is "officially confirmed" as provider of "gluing" substances for an "Abeling weight power plants"....
Hey, I can buy it....It's quite possible...

Cheers!
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Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #433 on: April 12, 2009, 10:55:30 AM »
@spinner,

So, you think Henkel are in it just for the profit from their glue business and couldn’t care less that in doing so their name will be inevitably connected with a super controversial project? Interesting.
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spinner

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #434 on: April 12, 2009, 11:00:58 AM »
Quote from: Omnibus on April 11, 2009, 02:14:12 AM
@spinner,

But that’s what Sjack Abeling claims his device is doing.
...

But you may say again ‘why not?’, if this Dutch institution confirms it has indeed given the permission, the way you said it regarding Henkel. If Henkel’s confirmation isn’t convincing enough to you why should this be? The truth is, nothing can prove the validity of Sjack Abeling’s claim or any other claim for that matter but independent verification by third parties.

Hello, Omnibus!

Yes, I had Abeling statement (device starting from a standstill) in mind...
After I saw other concepts here - K.A.D., and others... (which were certainly not self-starting), I just made a remark...

...
If "Henkel Netherlands" is saying that "they're involved in the challenging glue techniques" for the "Abeling Weight power plant", then i can believe that...

At this point, we all don't know much about anything.... Especially the Sj's work. It's (like always) the believe/not believe issue....


My main point was - if the authority, the "commercial...."  (I don't exactly remember the official name of that Netherlands authority) would confirm that they really gave him a permission to build "weight/gravity" power plants all over the Netherland, that would be something else entirely....
 
...

And, yes, an official third party (trustfull independent verification) confirmation build is all what is needed...

Cheers!
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