Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Custom Search
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 17 18 19 20 21 [22] 23 24 25 26 27 ... 164   Go Down

Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 830919 times)

Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #315 on: April 10, 2009, 07:08:16 PM »
Quote from: Tracker on April 10, 2009, 06:51:45 PM
Hi Mondrasek,

Just to be sure this is not WM2D problem, I'm reproducing this model in SketchyPhysics for Sketchup.
Let's see ...
Just in case I will not use any motor in this simulation.

regards,

Tracker



It will be very interesting indeed if this effect will be reproduced in another program. Is SketchyPhysics similar to WM2D
Logged

mondrasek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1301
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #316 on: April 10, 2009, 07:22:00 PM »
Guys,

Here is the file with the motor velocity changed from -1 rad/sec to 0 rad/sec.  Only change.

Now it does not move because the motor is a brake.

Stefan, when I remove/delete the motor I also have the wheel spin backwards.  Not sure what Cherryman was doing with the other torques in the file.

M.
Logged

AquariuZ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 645
ABELING CONCEPT WM2D MODEL
« Reply #317 on: April 10, 2009, 07:35:05 PM »
Well, that was fun...

There are so many variables to set in wm2d that I went nuts. Spheres falling out of constraints. Shit.

Here now what I have been working on.

You are looking at a side view here. The spheres do NOT represent the weights but the extended axles of the dumbbell weights.

The flow can be shown clearly now. please remember the frontal view of the dumbbells I showed you earlier and keep that in mind.

Without motor all kinds of constraint and overlap errors occur, I do NOT know enough about wm2d to fix those to put the model to a real test and look for acceleration(it does!!). I changed so many textures I am a bit lost, but you can see the flow concept and we should take it from there.

Model attached.

EDIT: I FORGOT TO MENTION... YES WHEN YOU LET IT RUN FOR A FEW SECONDS (IGNORE THE OVERLAP ERRORS), THEN STOP, THEN SELECT START HERE AND REPLACE THE MOTOR WITH A PIN (IGNORE THE WARNINGS) IT STARTS TO ACCELERATE AND COMPLETELY DESTRUCTS WITH BALLS FLYING EVERY WHERE WITHIN SECONDS. WARNINGS ALL OVER.

If you can help make the model more solid, who knows? Also when the weight leaves the lower barrier it should remain motionless and then move right onto the upper barrier. So yeah I need to slightly adjust the lower barrier (again) Coming off it now moves a little to the left, stops, and accelerates to the right into the upper barrier. FRONTAL VIEW EXTENDED AXLE DUMBBELL WEIGHT ADDED. YELLOW=WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT..

Just ignore the Warning:CoE violation messages  8)

Please comment and help clean up the model if you can, thanks.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 08:05:51 PM by AquariuZ »
Logged

mondrasek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1301
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #318 on: April 10, 2009, 07:48:36 PM »
I took AquariuZ file, removed the motor, and normalized all the masses (some "balls" and arms were not equal weight).

Great work AquariuZ!

Unfortunately it does not appear to self run.

M.
Logged

Tracker

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #319 on: April 10, 2009, 07:48:50 PM »
Hi Omnibus,

SketchyPhysics is free ware plug-in for Google Sketchup (only for version 6)
It is quite different. Google Sketchup is all about easy creation of 3D objects.
I love it. It is soooo simple to use and has all needed tutorials built in.
Just try, you won't be disappointed.
I have just installed SketchyPhysics, and to tell you the truth, I will need another few hours to get use to it.
Anyway, I'll try to implement "our" model ASAP.
BTW. I confirm that I have no such problems like Mondrasek is experiencing with WM2D.

regards,

Tracker 

Quote from: Omnibus on April 10, 2009, 07:08:16 PM
It will be very interesting indeed if this effect will be reproduced in another program. Is SketchyPhysics similar to WM2D
Logged

Cherryman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 642
Re: ABELING CONCEPT WM2D MODEL
« Reply #320 on: April 10, 2009, 07:48:55 PM »
Quote from: AquariuZ on April 10, 2009, 07:35:05 PM
Well, that was fun...

There are so many variables to set in wm2d that I went nuts. Spheres falling out of constraints. Shit.

Here now what I have been working on.

You are looking at a side view here. The spheres do NOT represent the weights but the extended axles of the dumbbell weights.

The flow can be shown clearly now. please remember the frontal view of the dumbbells I showed you earlier and keep that in mind.

Without motor all kinds of constraint and overlap errors occur, I do NOT know enough about wm2d to fix those to put the model to a real test and look for acceleration(it does!!). I changed so many textures I am a bit lost, but you can see the flow concept and we should take it from there.

Model attached.

EDIT: I FORGOT TO MENTION... YES WHEN YOU LET IT RUN OF A FEW SECONDS (IGNORE THE OVERLAP ERRORS), THEN STOP, THEN SELECT START HERE AND REPLACE THE MOTOR WITH A PIN (IGNORE THE WARNINGS) IT STARTS TO ACCELERATE AND COMPLETELY DESTRUCTS WITH BALLS FLYING EVERY WHERE WITHIN SECONDS. WARNINGS ALL OVER.

If you can make the model more sold, who knows? Also when the weight leaves the lower barrier is should remain motionless and then move right onto the upper barrier. So Yeah I need to slightly adjust the lower barrier (again) Coming off it now moves a little to the left, stops, and accelerates to the right into the upper barrier.

Just ignore the Warning:CoE violation messages  8)

Please comment and help clean up the model if you can, thanks.

Looks Good!

I like it.. I now see what you mean... and now  i understand the shape of the "creadles"in the outer ends!

Very good work! 
Logged

AquariuZ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 645
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #321 on: April 10, 2009, 08:00:07 PM »
Quote from: mondrasek on April 10, 2009, 07:48:36 PM
I took AquariuZ file, removed the motor, and normalized all the masses (some "balls" and arms were not equal weight).

Great work AquariuZ!

Unfortunately it does not appear to self run.

M.

You need to let it run for a few seconds before you remove the motor and you will see what I mean. It also depends where you remove the motor, bit hard to explain.

I will update the picture above to again show the extended axle dumbbells from the front so it is clear that the spheres are NOT the weights itself, but rather a sideview of one of the axles. (in yellow).

I do not know about you, but this flow concept is good enough for me to start building a prototype which will fit on a desktop. Initial size estimate would be 40cm height, including stands. ALL WOOD except for bearing, weight and axles.
Logged

mondrasek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1301
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #322 on: April 10, 2009, 08:01:47 PM »
Quote from: Tracker on April 10, 2009, 07:48:50 PM
BTW. I confirm that I have no such problems like Mondrasek is experiencing with WM2D.

Tracker, open one of the files that has a motor.  Double click to get the properties box and make sure you have the motor selected in the top pull down menu.  Now change the Type pulldown from Torque to Velocity to Rotation and back.  On mine the value will spontaneously reset to some unknown value.  The file then becomes corrupt and may say zero velocity in this box but stil have a non zero value in use.  The problem does not appear for me if I do not scroll through the motor Types.
Logged

Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #323 on: April 10, 2009, 08:05:02 PM »
Quote from: mondrasek on April 10, 2009, 07:22:00 PM
Guys,

Here is the file with the motor velocity changed from -1 rad/sec to 0 rad/sec.  Only change.

Now it does not move because the motor is a brake.

Stefan, when I remove/delete the motor I also have the wheel spin backwards.  Not sure what Cherryman was doing with the other torques in the file.

M.

@mondrasek, well then, if we can't have a free turning rotor, unobstructed by a motor which even stopped acts like a brake, then what good is this program? Then, any attempt so far that had seemed negative might not have been negative.

OK, I saw the exchange between @Cherryman and @AquariuZ. Seems the motor can be replaced by a pin but how is that done?
Logged

Cherryman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 642
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #324 on: April 10, 2009, 08:11:10 PM »
Quote from: Omnibus on April 10, 2009, 08:05:02 PM
@mondrasek, well then, if we can't have a free turning rotor, unobstructed by a motor which even stopped acts like a brake, then what good is this program? Then, any attempt so far that had seemed negative might not have been negative.

OK, I saw the exchange between @Cherryman and @AquariuZ. Seems the motor can be replaced by a pin but how is that done?


The safest way is to use a pin, and then to drop a weight on it what will fall off.. Then you have a starting speed, with no after influence.
Logged

mondrasek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1301
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #325 on: April 10, 2009, 08:11:17 PM »
Quote from: AquariuZ on April 10, 2009, 08:00:07 PM
You need to let it run for a few seconds before you remove the motor and you will see what I mean. It also depends where you remove the motor, bit hard to explain.

I will update the picture above to again show the extended axle dumbbells from the front so it is clear that the spheres are NOT the weights itself, but rather a sideview of one of the axles. (in yellow).

I do not know about you, but this flow concept is good enough for me to start building a prototype which will fit on a desktop. Initial size estimate would be 40cm height, including stands. ALL WOOD except for bearing, weight and axles.


I'm not sure what you are trying to say.  I removed the motor by deleting it.  I replaced it with a pin joint (axle).  The wheel will sway back and forth but not spin.  If you add a free falling weight to collide with one arm to induce an initial spin it will also stop quickly.  So far the model appears to mimic the real world actions of any gravity wheel built with ramps to move the balls towards the axle.

I'm not saying Abeling does not have something real.  And I believe you have done a hell of a job investigating and modeling the path.  But I don't think the device is complete yet.  I think there must be some other mechanism(s) that gather energy in the lower left quadrant and use that to somehow accelerate the ball up the ramp.  And somehow this must also create an energy gain, if the wheel is to spin.

Abeling may have been happy to allow the video team to see the wheel as shown.  The critical piece(s) might not have been on display.

M.
Logged

mondrasek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1301
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #326 on: April 10, 2009, 08:12:35 PM »
Quote from: Cherryman on April 10, 2009, 08:11:10 PM

The safest way is to use a pin, and then to drop a weight on it what will fall off.. Then you have a starting speed, with no after influence.

Exactly!  I also put a fixed barrier with elasticity of .005 under the weight so it has a place to land.  If not it continues to fall forever and may blow up the program.  Also, if not stopped it is wasting computation cycles (time).
Logged

Cherryman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 642
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #327 on: April 10, 2009, 08:14:08 PM »
Quote from: mondrasek on April 10, 2009, 08:12:35 PM
Exactly!

Better will be a selfstarting one!  ;D

Logged

mindsweeper

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #328 on: April 10, 2009, 08:17:37 PM »
A note on deleting calculated frames in WM2D

After you reset the simulation click Measure then Time, (time measure window opens) click it and delete or cut, all calculated frames are gone, save for minimal size.

Quick and easy and you don't have to touch the model.

Great thread by the way...
Logged

Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #329 on: April 10, 2009, 08:19:45 PM »
So, how does one get rid of this motor and why was it part of this construction in the first place?
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 17 18 19 20 21 [22] 23 24 25 26 27 ... 164   Go Up
« previous next »