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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 830738 times)

Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #165 on: April 08, 2009, 09:50:28 PM »
The most interesting about the picture of Sjack is that he has 9 weights on the "going down" side and 7 at the "going up" side..     At first i did think it was just a simplified picture of the trajectory of the balls... But the 16 balls are equal to the number "16" on the video..

Puzzles , puzzles..   ;D
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Alexioco

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #166 on: April 08, 2009, 10:20:10 PM »
also it seems to me that by having the weights rise up in a straight line rather than up to the axle and around, the weights are taking a shortcut to get to the top meaning less energy?
If the weights raised up at the same speed as the ascending side of the wheel, then i think the weights would be travling faster than the wheel when they lift because the wheel area by the axle is moving slower than the outside of the wheel...

Edit: Thinking about it, if the weights take that shortcut up (straight) then less weights rise as more weights fall

Alex
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Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #167 on: April 08, 2009, 10:27:19 PM »
Quote from: Alexioco on April 08, 2009, 10:20:10 PM
also it seems to me that by having the weights rise up in a straight line rather than up to the axle and around, the weights are taking a shortcut to get to the top meaning less energy?
If the weights raised up at the same speed as the ascending side of the wheel, then i think the weights would be travling faster than the wheel when they lift because the wheel area by the axle is moving slower than the outside of the wheel...

Edit: Thinking about it, if the weights take that shortcut up (straight) then less weights rise as more weights fall

Alex

Yes Alex, that is true, you can see it in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBygA2vOHx4&feature=channel_page

As you can see the ball accelerates and leaves the bottom of the swing arm when it is going up the ramp = shorter route.

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AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #168 on: April 08, 2009, 11:06:08 PM »
Quote from: Cherryman on April 08, 2009, 09:50:28 PM
The most interesting about the picture of Sjack is that he has 9 weights on the "going down" side and 7 at the "going up" side..     At first i did think it was just a simplified picture of the trajectory of the balls... But the 16 balls are equal to the number "16" on the video..

Puzzles , puzzles..   ;D

Nice  :o
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AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #169 on: April 08, 2009, 11:27:17 PM »
BREAKTHROUGH

I have just realized something.

What if there are moving weights and static weights moving up into position ONE SHOT AT A TIME.

No need for explosive action all the way up, just kinetic transfer..

I´ll try and explain: Remember the little toy where you have 6 steel balls suspended from a wire and you take one, let it fall and the last one on the other side gets shot-putted?

THIS IS IT.

The holes on the side are to stack the weights inside a holding system which is placed just left of the axle. (Pre-start) The placeholder is for 7 dumbbells.
The other nine dumbbells are then loaded at the following positions

13:00 weight number 1 of 16
13:30 weight number 2 of 16
14:00 weight number 3 of 16
14:30 weight number 4 of 16
15:00 weight number 5 of 16
15:30 weight number 6 of 16
16:00 weight number 7 of 16
16:30 weight number 8 of 16
17:00 weight number 9 of 16

Now visualize 7 stacked dumbbells in a holder just to the left of the axle.

[WEIGHT NUMBER 16 OF 16] <-- TOP OF STACK
[WEIGHT NUMBER 15 OF 16]
[WEIGHT NUMBER 14 OF 16]
[WEIGHT NUMBER 13 OF 16]
[WEIGHT NUMBER 12 OF 16]
[WEIGHT NUMBER 11 OF 16]
[WEIGHT NUMBER 10 OF 16] <-- BOTTOM OF STACK

They are stacked and in direct contact with each other

Weight 10 is just up and to the left of the six o clock socket
Weight 16 is just below and to the left of the twelve o clock position

THIS IS EXACTLY WHERE HE DESCRIBES THE ACTION IN THE FAQ

Let go of the wheel or push it.

the 17:00 weight moves to 18:00, leaves its socket when it encounters the barrier/holder and then makes a direct hard contact with weight number ten, which is on the bottom of the stack. The kinetic energy is transferred all the way to weight number 16 which is on top of the stack and forces weight number 16 into the holding socket at around 12:30.

Weight number 16 becomes weight number one.

I just slapped my forehead, because he did say "Kogelstoten". Shot-put did not mean anything to me but you can compare "Kogelstoten" to a Jeux-de-boules ball violently displacing another ball and taking its place.

Cherryman your 7-9 remark just now removed the cogwebs from my brain, thank you my friend.

This I can indeed make a model of, I am getting excited now.

O, you noticed? (Clicking on WM.EXE)

 ;D
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Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #170 on: April 08, 2009, 11:33:07 PM »
Quote from: AquariuZ on April 08, 2009, 11:27:17 PM
BREAKTHROUGH

I have just realized something.

What if there are moving weights and static weights moving up into position ONE SHOT AT A TIME.

No need for explosive action all the way up, just kinetic transfer..

I´ll try and explain: Remember the little toy where you have 6 steel balls suspended from a wire and you take one, let it fall and the last one on the other side gets shot-putted?

THIS IS IT.

The holes on the side are to stack the weights inside a holding system which is placed just left of the axle. (Pre-start) The placeholder is for 7 dumbbells.
The other nine dumbbells are then loaded at the following positions

13:00 weight number 1 of 16
13:30 weight number 2 of 16
14:00 weight number 3 of 16
14:30 weight number 4 of 16
15:00 weight number 5 of 16
15:30 weight number 6 of 16
16:00 weight number 7 of 16
16:30 weight number 8 of 16
17:00 weight number 9 of 16

Now visualize 7 stacked dumbbells in a holder to the left.

[WEIGHT NUMBER 16 OF 16] <-- TOP OF STACK
[WEIGHT NUMBER 15 OF 16]
[WEIGHT NUMBER 14 OF 16]
[WEIGHT NUMBER 13 OF 16]
[WEIGHT NUMBER 12 OF 16]
[WEIGHT NUMBER 11 OF 16]
[WEIGHT NUMBER 10 OF 16] <-- BOTTOM OF STACK

They are stacked and in direct contact with each other

Weight 10 is just up and to the left of the six o clock socket
Weight 16 is just below and to the left of the twelve o clock position

THIS IS EXACTLY WHERE HE DESCRIBES THE ACTION IN THE FAQ

Let go of the wheel or push it.

the 17:00 weight moves to 18:00, leaves its socket when it encounters the barrier/holder and then makes a direct hard contact with weight number ten, which is on the bottom of the stack. The kinetic energy is transferred all the way to weight number 16 which is on top of the stack and forces weight number 16 into the holding socket at around 12:30.

Weight number 16 becomes weight number one.

I just slapped my forehead, because he did say "Kogelstoten". Shot-put did not mean anything to me but you can compare "Kogelstoten" to a Jeux-de-boules ball violently displacing another ball and taking its place.

Cherryman your 7-9 remark just now removed the cogwebs from my brain, thank you my friend.

This I can indeed make a model of, I am getting excited now.

O, you noticed? (Clicking on WM.EXE)

 ;D

Hey Aquariuz,

I tried the kenetic energie ting..  Just today... from you're D remark.  But i could not get it to simulate properly. 

I started to simulate indeed the little toy, that was already a problem.  Then i tried the same setup in D position, with a wheel but my problem was that there wasn't enough energy, AND the stack will try to move downwards...

So i hope you will found a solution for that! 
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Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #171 on: April 08, 2009, 11:38:30 PM »
Here is a screenshot:

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AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #172 on: April 08, 2009, 11:41:28 PM »
Quote from: Cherryman on April 08, 2009, 11:33:07 PM
I started to simulate indeed the little toy, that was already a problem.  Then i tried the same setup in D position, with a wheel but my problem was that there wasn't enough energy, AND the stack will try to move downwards...

The stack is held into place by the rotating arms wait and see so I can show you

The point where the balls touch created a powerful kinetic jolt moving just the top weight

Modelling now... Make sure to select "Steel" as your material for the spheres.
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Alexioco

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #173 on: April 08, 2009, 11:44:41 PM »
Dont know if this helps but I have studied the youtube video (the one without the subtitles) so I could see as much of the wheel as I could, I have drawn out the wheels frame work, you can check it with the video to make sure I havnt got somthing wrong but as far as I can see, it seems right...

On the footage, the is a straight piece of wood the runs diaganol along the wheel, I dont know what thats for, unless its just to support the wheel, so I have left that out for now.



Alex
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Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #174 on: April 08, 2009, 11:44:48 PM »
Quote from: AquariuZ on April 08, 2009, 11:41:28 PM
The stack is held into place by the rotating arms wait and see so I can show you

The point where the balls touch created a powerful kinetic jolt moving just the top weight

Modelling now... Make sure to select "Steel" as your material for the spheres.

It sounds good!  Maybe i did something wrong.  I hope you get it!

And steel.. Not sure.. what i used.. i Think default.

I'm curiuos to you're rotating arms. 

Hurry!  ;D
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yaz

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #175 on: April 08, 2009, 11:45:50 PM »
Here's some interesting stuff I found:

There is a popular toy consisting of five steel balls, all of the same size and mass, hanging side by side in a row (many people keep them on their desks). Pull out the end ball and drop it against the row, and one pops of the other end. If two balls are pulled aside and dropped together, two pop out from the other end. The balls seem to count! How do they accomplish this trick?


The Newton's Cradle demonstrates the principle of conservation of energy. When one ball is swung into the other four, nearly all the kinetic energy is transferred through all the others to the ball on the far side which then swings out away from the others. When TWO balls are swung out the energy is doubled. When that doubled energy is transferred through the other balls, it is large enough that it can propel both balls at the far end. The whole thing works because each ball weighs the same as its fellows. If you used balls of different weights all sorts of funny interactions would occur.[/b
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AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #176 on: April 08, 2009, 11:57:05 PM »
Quote from: Alexioco on April 08, 2009, 11:44:41 PM
On the footage, the is a straight piece of wood the runs diaganol along the wheel, I dont know what thats for, unless its just to support the wheel, so I have left that out for now.

I missed that, do you mean inside the wheel or outside the halves?

Anyway wm2d is not behaving as expected with regards to the transfer of kinetic energy  >:(

The simple toy I described does not work as expected in wm2d as mentioned by cherryman as well.

I was hoping to simulate this, but looks like I cannot (at least not with this software).
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Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #177 on: April 08, 2009, 11:58:44 PM »
Good tip AquariuZ, I tried the steel and that works better, but i'm still curious about the moving beams.

Also, if you want to do this with dumbbells, you will have to have a super exact outline to let both sides collapse at the same time... 

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AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #178 on: April 08, 2009, 11:59:16 PM »
Quote from: yaz on April 08, 2009, 11:45:50 PM
Here's some interesting stuff I found:

There is a popular toy consisting of five steel balls, all of the same size and mass, hanging side by side in a row (many people keep them on their desks). Pull out the end ball and drop it against the row, and one pops of the other end. If two balls are pulled aside and dropped together, two pop out from the other end. The balls seem to count! How do they accomplish this trick?


Thats about exactly what I posted 10 minutes ago.  8)

Great minds think alike.

I did not know this was called a Newtons Cradle.

So, adding to the list of clues:

Possible Newtons Cradle holding the dumbbells in a semi-static configuration to the left of the axle.

Check.
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Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #179 on: April 09, 2009, 12:00:02 AM »
Quote from: AquariuZ on April 08, 2009, 11:57:05 PM
I missed that, do you mean inside the wheel or outside the halves?

Anyway wm2d is not behaving as expected with regards to the transfer of kinetic energy  >:(

The simple toy I described does not work as expected in wm2d as mentioned by cherryman as well.

I was hoping to simulate this, but looks like I cannot (at least not with this software).

Hold on...  I might have something.
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