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Author Topic: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION  (Read 3488393 times)

Low-Q

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #7725 on: January 25, 2017, 02:00:01 PM »
Eventually it's going to be pointed out that this discussion I am participating in yet again, will go on for pages, and no one will come out any smarter.  So....to stay on topic, can someone please explain what "Energy Amplification" is, and how it whatever it is has been demonstrated in the Tesla patents.
In matter of Joules, you cannot achieve more Joules on the output than the input. I'm not talking about Teslas patens specificly, but if you charge a capacitor with 1 Joule in one second, you can discharge the capacitor at 1000 Watt in 1/1000 second, but it is still 1 Joule of energy. I think that is what "energy amplification" is much about - though you do not actually amplify energy, but just increase the energy density on the expense of shorter time.
The air or whatever that is the medium during a given discharge, might act as "fuel" into the system, that allows increased energy output, but on the other hand, that fuel already carry potential energy that has been waiting for ignition.
I remember when I was yong and ignorant, I though it was possible to connect several AC-transformes to achieve more energy out that in. For example using five 10/1 step up transformers, and end up with 100 000 times energy output. What I did not know was that the current capacity decreased 100 000 times too.
I haven read about Teslas patens, baybe breafly touched the subject once, so this answer might not help a bit :-)


Vidar

lancaIV

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #7726 on: January 25, 2017, 03:18:03 PM »
In matter of Joules, you cannot achieve more Joules on the output than the input. I'm not talking about Teslas patens specificly, but if you charge a capacitor with 1 Joule in one second, you can discharge the capacitor at 1000 Watt in 1/1000 second, but it is still 1 Joule of energy. I think that is what "energy amplification" is much about - though you do not actually amplify energy, but just increase the energy density on the expense of shorter time.
The air or whatever that is the medium during a given discharge, might act as "fuel" into the system, that allows increased energy output, but on the other hand, that fuel already carry potential energy that has been waiting for ignition.
I remember when I was yong and ignorant, I though it was possible to connect several AC-transformes to achieve more energy out that in. For example using five 10/1 step up transformers, and end up with 100 000 times energy output. What I did not know was that the current capacity decreased 100 000 times too.
I haven read about Teslas patens, baybe breafly touched the subject once, so this answer might not help a bit :-)


Vidar

http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/Patents/DE3024814.pdf
from page 9:
pulse operation and it can the multiple of the necessary working current at electricity be produced in particular in this way, without material is used and without thermal circuit or a torque is necessary. if several are arrangedsuch energy producer switched in graduated size e.g. in a series that second receives the full performance first and third the full performance of the second energy producer to etc., then with a multiplicator of 10 in the sixth member of the series already 1000 megW performance are obtained, if one proceeds from 1000 W power input in the first and smallest energy producer at the start of the series.

You has not been alone with your thinking ! ;)

lancaIV

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #7727 on: January 25, 2017, 05:41:58 PM »
                                          Treating Ampére-turns as waves ?
                              Transforming displacement current in real power !

citfta

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #7728 on: January 25, 2017, 09:24:26 PM »
Whats going on in this fig?


I am constantly referring to this....and will continue to refer to it, when you finally get it, you'll be like....so that's what the fuss was about....I live for that moment....

I am going to take a stab at analyzing this figure as you are saying it is important to understand it.  I have not seen any information as to the power source but have to assume it is DC for the circuit to function properly.  Also although not real clear from the figure I am assuming that the commutator H on the right end of the motor connects brushes G and K for part of the rotation of the armature.  Let's say that at the time of power being applied to the circuit the brushes G and K are not connected.  In that case current would flow from A to K and then into the capacitor.  From the other end of the capacitor current would flow through the primary winding M and thus generate a higher voltage on the secondary winding N which would be applied to the plates P.

The current that is flowing through primary winding M would also flow through the motor winding F and through the commutator and armature of the motor and then through the motor winding D and from there back to the other power connection B.  This causes the motor armature to rotate.

At some finite amount of time the cap would become charged and the current would stop flowing and the motor would stop except for the commutator on the right end of the motor.  As the motor turns the commutator H will connect brush K to brush G and this will create a path for capacitor L to discharge through primary coil M and thus create a high voltage on the secondary N of the opposite polarity of the original voltage which is passed onto plates P.

At the same time as the commutator H has the brushes connected together we now also have a path for the applied power to directly power the motor without going through the cap L or coil M.  So commutator H does two things.  It allows the motor to be powered directly with power and also allows the cap to be discharged and recharged thus giving us a high voltage AC power applied to the plates P.

Of course the high voltage on the plates produces the ozone which is forced from the plates by the fan on the motor.

Erfinder, I think I understand your methods well enough to know you probably aren't going to tell me what I have missed.  That is OK.  But would you please tell me if I have missed something important or do I just need to ponder my conclusions more thoroughly?

Respectfully,
Carroll

citfta

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #7729 on: January 25, 2017, 10:26:17 PM »

Could it be that I need to think more carefully about what happens when commutator H opens the connection between the brushes?

citfta

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #7730 on: January 25, 2017, 10:52:28 PM »
I believe it is the motor and as you added including the controller.  The motor speed is going to directly affect the operation of the whole system.  If the motor was turning too slowly then cap L would get charged to the point the motor would stop.  If the motor is turning too quickly then cap L wouldn't have time to absorb much charge at all and therefore there would be very little high voltage generated by current going through the primary M.  If we can get the motor speed just right then we can probably reach a resonant condition between M and L which would lessen the current draw from the source.

Carroll

citfta

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #7731 on: January 25, 2017, 11:27:11 PM »
The cap gives us a way to apply an alternating current to the primary coil M.

web000x

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #7732 on: January 25, 2017, 11:33:45 PM »

The correct answer is


B.  cap


Everyone I have asked got it wrong.....  Why do I consider the cap the fulcrum of the system?


Because it is the storage device that contains the primary field?  That field being dielectricity.  Magnetism seems to be an effect and not so much the cause..


Dave

leonelogb

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #7733 on: January 25, 2017, 11:43:10 PM »
I think it is because the cap is coil bifilar.

Tesla; My present invention has for its object to avoid the employment of condensers which are expensive, cumbersome and difficult to maintain in perfect condition, and to so construct the coils themselves as to accomplish the same ultimate object

gyulasun

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #7734 on: January 26, 2017, 12:09:15 AM »
Well, there can be another aspect of the cap: its reactive current does the job i.e. produces the ozone between its plates.
And reactive current in an LC tank circuit can be Q times the input current to the tank, a bonus from the end product point of view.

Dave45

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #7735 on: January 26, 2017, 01:27:15 PM »
After the insults i shouldn't share anything but im here to help.
This is a polarity probe it will give you some understanding whats happening as your magnets pass a coil.
Wound bifilar on a core. If you don't have a scope this will help.
Evidently ERfinder has something he wants to share and im not here to distract from that.

wattsup

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #7736 on: January 26, 2017, 02:30:24 PM »
My Dogma...
The cap is the fulcrum of the system because:
    +    It is charged in series with the primary......
    +    It is discharged in parallel with the primary......
Fundamentally you are dealing with the same components, however, you must recognize that you are dealing with two distinct circuits, circuits operating at different instances, circuits which owing to their specific relations CANNOT oscillate at the same frequency, circuits which owing to the aforementioned are not operating in phase! 

Your eyes have been shut to the true nature of this and just about every other circuit Tesla has preserved.  You only see half of a whole.  You only see the parallel LC, you dont understand what the parallel LC is.  Most assume  when you have L and C you must tune.  Just because you can doesn't mean it's what you are supposed to do.

@Erfinder

I had prepared two posts but did not post them simply to not ruffle delicate feathers.

But on your last post, there is nothing that can confirm what you just said simply because the Tesla Ozone Patent (TOP) has a great omission that prevents anyone from speculating as such on the capacitor function.

The omission is having failed to outline the SPECIFIC relationship between the motor commutator (E) and the Rotary Switch (H).

1) Are the brushes on E thinner, same size or greater then the width of each commutation?
2) How many commutators are on E?
3) How many contacts on H and what is their contact/contact width relationship?
4) What is the relation between contacts on H and E. Does H open when E is closed?

These are but a few of the many variables in just that one relation. Each one will produce a different result.

Then here is a question about the Capiyself.

The cap receives constant positive DC on one side. The negative DC comes to the motor winding through E then through the working primary to then arrive at the other side of the Cap. So question is, does the positive stop at the cap and wait for the negative to pass the motor coils and the primary to arrive and the other cap end, or, does the positive pass the cap, pass the primary to then land in the center of the motor coils where the negative arrives at the first half of the motor coils.

Then you say there is a discharge of the capacitor but again that will only depend of the relations between H and E. We know the capacitor will charge to the inductance of the motor when E is connected since there is no other choice. But for it to then discharge, E has to open and H has to close. But when E opens the inductor will discharge bleeding off the cap. So in the TOP, Tesla left some things unsaid and it is those unclear, unmentioned point that are probably his secret to work through and arrive at the feed source being replenished and thus making it a perpetual device or OU. 

Tesla was a fanatic for precision and his omission of these detail in the TOP are in my view, the crack in the wall that guys need to look through.

wattsup

citfta

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #7737 on: January 26, 2017, 04:53:41 PM »
As I posted earlier we have two things going on at the same time when brushes K and G are connected together.  We have power now going directly to the motor and we have a circuit completed allowing L to discharge through M.  Since L and M make up an LC circuit if G and K stay connected long enough then L and M could oscillate back and forth or ring as a decaying signal.

I think what some people may not realize is you can have more than one signal on a conductor at the same time.  The DC power can be going to the motor at the same time there can be an oscillating signal going back and forth from M and L.  Many times I have seen the same cable used to deliver DC to a preamp or other device and also that same cable can carry a RF or audio signal back down the cable.

I do not see in this circuit where either one would necessarily affect the other.

Carroll

citfta

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #7738 on: January 26, 2017, 06:33:36 PM »
Plates P and coil N can also be an LC circuit that could oscillate at some frequency which may or may not be the same as the frequency of L and M.  I am not sure how good a dielectric ozone is for plates P to act as a capacitor.  Would moving the ozone through the plates increase or decrease the ability of the ozone to act as a dielectric?

Carroll

jbignes5

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #7739 on: January 26, 2017, 09:39:06 PM »
 I find it funny that no one has seen the primary after the motor coils is an extra coil as Tesla would say. The cap hooked across the extra coil as a freely oscillating circuit... People are too hung up on traditional circuits and ideas to see the plain truth of the situation. Plus the front controller is a cap and coil shortening device. This would allow the extra coil and cap to oscillate freely in the off times of the DC motor section.