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Author Topic: Miniaturized Electrolysis Chamber  (Read 7300 times)

jadaro2600

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Miniaturized Electrolysis Chamber
« on: August 06, 2008, 04:49:01 PM »
I created this small electrolysis cell designed with two 0.5mm graphite pencil leads protruding from a transparent eraser canister.  Graphite rods are held apart by a nonconductive hollow tube taken from the stem of a cuetip.

Not the most conventional setup, but I was testing validity. Power source is from a model train set, providing AC and DC, in this case, DC is being used @ 17 volts.  AC produced no noticeable results.

Picture in picture has a 3x5 card in the background for scale.

I only broke one rod doing this  :P

ramset

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Re: Miniaturized Electrolysis Chamber
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2008, 05:00:30 PM »
NICE!! you only broke one rod? you should be a surgeon [steady hands]   Chet

scraven

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Re: Miniaturized Electrolysis Chamber
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2008, 05:15:40 PM »
you just made my day.... its so cute    :D

HHOwanabe

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Re: Miniaturized Electrolysis Chamber
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2008, 09:56:46 PM »
Wow!  This is exactly what I was thinking about when I went to bed last night!  Is that ESP or what?  I had a little bit different idea in the construction, but I was thinking "small".  I was thinking of 3 or 4 cells (a cell being 2 plates, one (+) and one (-)) in that small tube.  Call the tube a "Water Fuel Cell" (WFC).  Construction would be similar to a fuse, with the cell plates suspended between the WFC caps.  Water would be fed in from one end, and HHO would come out the other end.  I don't know what size WFC would be required to provide adequate spacing or what kind of electrical power would be required to produce adequate HHO, (I don't even know if it would work at all) but one of these WFC's would be used on each cylinder of an ICE as part of the "fuel injection system".  This would allow an engine to run soley on water (converted to HHO for input at the cylinder).  Anybody have any ideas?  Think outside the box folks!  Remember, HHO gas will escape through a very small opening where water will not.

jadaro2600

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Re: Miniaturized Electrolysis Chamber
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2008, 04:58:36 AM »
HHOwanabe,

I have a similar idea, it involves replacing the fuel line with a graphite tube charged as + and an inner isolated / insulated core charged as -, there would be a small gap and as water went through this area, it would be split to HHO.  The problem is material integrity, holding a setup like that would mean lots of insulating pipes, and the rate of flow may mean extending the surface area beyond a reasonable distance, as well as the possibility of backfiring through the sparkplug injector.

This goes along the similar lines as removing the inlet valve and replacing the spark plug with a spark plug / fuel injector combo - one that split water to HHO while injecting and firing when the injected HHO had been evacuated from the electrolysis chamber.

The reason I consider graphite is because it doesn't introduce oxides of iron into the engine or electrolysis chamber - this could possibly ruin the oil and make what you save in gas you loose in frequency of oil changes.

Has anyone actually gotten an engine to run on HHO and water vapor?  - if the idea is to switch to something that doesn't involve carbon based fuels, then the engine would have to run on internal combustion of HHO along with H2O so that the HHO alone would not burn the pistons up.


ESP? maybe, I built this only 30 minutes before I posted the image.  Maybe you were asleep at the same time? :P

HHOwanabe

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Re: Miniaturized Electrolysis Chamber
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2008, 01:09:01 AM »
Hey jadaro
In case you want to keep experimenting with smaller cells, I am currently testing with simple "brute force" electrolysis using SS 1 1/2" washers.  My cell configuration is two negative plates and one positive plate (s-..+s+..-s; where + and - are plates, dots are spacers, and s are thin metal straps for power supply connection.). The 2 plates for the positive is so I can place a thin metal strap between them.  My spacing between plates is ~ 1/8".  Using this cell configuration I get ~ 2X bubbles of two plates. (probably a little less)  I am using a 12V (Makita drill) battery and it measures ~.7A.  I am using plain tap water (in a small plastic bowl), as that is my ultimate goal for producing HHO.  I'm sure I'm loosng effeciency (current and or volts) because the 3 metal straps are partly below water.
So, if you took your small cell, made it about 1.25" diameter by about 4" long, attached three 1" by 4" straps from end to end  about 2-3mm apart, middle strap to positive and two outers to negative, wander what kind of production would you get?
Anyway, just a thought in case your interested.
phil g.

medalmazterman

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Re: Miniaturized Electrolysis Chamber
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2008, 05:02:19 AM »
I was in the junk pile and saw a old style oil cooler for a cummins diesel engine. Thought that I could use that for a generator taking small diameter rods and inserting them into the tubing that is incorporated in the cooler main body, althought it is made of copper instead of stainless. I think that the tubing is about .250 in diameter already and figured that I could use something about say .187 for the inside rods. Did'nt really get down to figuring it all out right now. But I am going on to build three of the Meyers type tomorrow and three of the Smack's or Bob Boyce type that has plates instead of tubes but will have both on hand. I am still not all that sure what electronics I will end up using but have the Meyers circuit being built locally and already have a pulse width modulator built but not really sure how much voltage I want to use with it right now. But the stuff is gonna fly tomorrow cause I am back in the shop and working with hydrogen gas so if you hear a loud bang dont worry it was just me. Oh and I will follow up with pics in the not so distant future.

hypersoniq

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Re: Miniaturized Electrolysis Chamber
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2008, 11:55:55 AM »
nice work jadaro2600!

In the end I figure a small inline HHO gen will be what actually works in running a motor on water.
The small scale makes it easier to experiment with different setups.

I'm working on a small cell in a tic-tac box so I can test the effects of a pair of NdFeB magnets on either side of it. First with regular electrolysis, then eventually seeking straight up resonance via RF, Ultrasonics, UV or some combination of the 3. My goal would be that the water never need contact metal.

the design that changes the world will be the one that requires the least amount of interaction from the end user, which is why brute force w/ electrolytes will never really catch on.

I also see a benefit to working with a smaller motor that can turn a generator to power an EV rather than a standard ICE conversion... imagine if all the cars and rucks on the road started filling up with water... all 600,000,000 of them!

Anyway, clever cell there... I surely would have broken more than one rod!

jadaro2600

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Re: Miniaturized Electrolysis Chamber
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2008, 03:42:44 AM »
Quote
My goal would be that the water never need contact metal.

Yes, this seems like the best approach, although, after having performed the experiment, I noticed that using graphite in salt water will produce chlorine gas as well - which can't be good for the inside of an ICE.

I plan to make another small cell - using distilled water only, and attempting to use pulsed DC.