Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Custom Search

Author Topic: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !  (Read 428123 times)

Kator01

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 898
Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #60 on: November 13, 2006, 05:13:46 PM »
olk,

here another german publication, i someone here in germany does further research on this very important
info ::

I deals with the electro-chemical behaviour of tungesten-carbide in KOH-Dilution.

Unortunately one has to be a member of this scientific Info-Service

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/107593358/ABSTRACT?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

Kator

ResinRat2

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1242
    • Hydrogen Reactor Vids
Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #61 on: November 13, 2006, 05:40:19 PM »
Hi everyone,

 Well, not exactly the results we had all hoped for, but the truth is always important.

I connected the AA - 1.5 volt battery's positive side to the tungsten electrode and the negative to the zinc. The vigorous production of gas (oxygen as described in the patent)  from the zinc electrode continued then slowed down after three hours. Examination showed zinc was redepsited on the zinc electrode and the carbide electrode began to have a whitish appearance.

I apologize to everyone that I did not catch the paragraphs on the patent that did describe this possibility with this experiment. I was going by the initial descriptions, which suggested that all the components were regenerated. It seems the reaction rates are not the same and the reduction of zinc does not keep up with its oxidation. This was described farther into the body of the patent.

I will study the other experiments to see if this was resolved without the use of input energy. This may take some time.

Just for your information, the tungsten electrode is again producing gas at a slow, steady rate. So we are most likely again producing hydrogen.

Thank you for your interest

pg46

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #62 on: November 13, 2006, 06:50:52 PM »
Thanks Resinrat2

 Good of you to experiment with Linnards work. I wonder if maybe we've not overlooked experiment #12 which uses nickel instead of tungsten carbide? It says the production of gas is "vigorous" also. I didn't see where one was claimed to be better than the other or maybe I've just misunderstood the report. Certainly though nickel is probably more available and cheaper too then tungsten. Who knows too, perhaps even stainless will work also in its place?
 It doesn't seem too bad to me to have to replenish the zinc. On mobile equipment such as a car we can just use the available 12vdc system to do the job. One could have 2 cells for this application, while one is having its zinc replenished with dc current from the car battery system the other can be doing its job of producing hydrogen for the IC engine.
 Keep up the good work!

Best,
 

ResinRat2

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1242
    • Hydrogen Reactor Vids
Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #63 on: November 13, 2006, 09:01:11 PM »
Stefan,

Just to fill out my data. I did a voltage reading across the electrodes and I measured a reading of 0.764V.

I will be ending this experiment now. I changed the electrodes before I took this reading, new galvanized nail, and six - 1/16" tungsten electrodes wrapped together. The production of hydrogen gas has increased relative to the increased area of the tungsten electrodes, just as I expected.

I will be doing further study of the patent before I attempt any other experiments. The solution itself had pieces of zinc at the bottom of the beaker that fell off from the nail that had zinc deposited on it when the battery was connected. The solution was clear until that point. Some small deposits of precipitate were at the bottom of the beaker, some slightly brownish, others off white. Tiny-sized precipitate.

In summary I have pulled off, since starting the experiment, a total of about 30 grams of water (approx) from the electrolysis process and evaporation. The system does produce hydrogen, but the reduction of zinc does not keep up with zinc oxidation. The process stopped somewhere between 32 and 63 hours of the beginning of the experiment.

The temperature of the water never felt warm, always cool, as if at room temp. I did not use a thermometer because I never thought of it until now.

Thank you everyone for your support and interest during this experiment. Please feel free to email me any suggestions or questions you may have. I will give you all the answers I can. This is not over yet. I still have much I want to investigate out of this process. I will keep you posted on future ideas, experiments, data, etc.

Dingus Mungus

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 859
Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #64 on: November 14, 2006, 01:08:55 AM »
Ok After diving in to the patent a little deeper I have found something from the patent that helps explain our experiment 13 replication failure. In subsections 55-57 it discusses the importance of the catalytic colloids and their electronegitivity relationships to the electrolytes and electrodes. The reson for this is simple: if the Zinc anode has a electronegativity of 1.65 and the colloidal Mg has a electronegativity of 1.31 and the silver has a electronegativity of 1.93; after the silver particles are digested via oxidation, the Zinc has a greater pull on any oxidation occuring in the cell. As it demonstates in the patent equations 29-34 the colloids should be the metals undergoing oxidation but then the particles should be releasing the oxidation as elemental oxygen. I believe it is the relative electronegitivitys and production rates involved that are perhaps causing this test cell to fail, but these galvanic reactions are way over my head! I'm going to try and find a chemistry student from the local college to help me. HAHAHAHA! Really though the reactions listed in those sections explain the colloids funtions in the cell, and it appears that their actual function is to regenerate themselfs with left over energy from the other colloid reactions, thereby releasing elemental oxygen or a base back in to the solution. I believe this process is happening, but at such a slow rate that once the silver is fully oxidized the oxygen then goes after the zinc. I'm not sure if this info helps anyone but I would like to hear back from others with more knowlege in this area. I still plan to build a duplication of this cell to test its life span and metalic consumtion rate, but this is not going to be as easy or simple as we first believed.

hartiberlin

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8154
    • free energy research OverUnity.com
Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #65 on: November 14, 2006, 01:23:51 AM »
Here is the latest video from Linnard attached to this message,
but he did not state much,
what we really see here.
He just wrote:

Hi Stefan,
 
Thought you would like to see this one. 500 ml per min. out of a 80 ml reactor.
 
Linnard



I had another look in single step frame mode into this video
and it seems he just uses one big cylindrical electrode and
a smaller rod electrode there beneath the kork closing.
There is one probably copper rod or something simular
coming out in the center of the kork and another wire
goes at the outer edgeof the kork into the baker.
Beneath the kork there seems to be one white-silvery
bigger cylindrical electrode and a smaller rod in front of it,
when he zooms onto it...
So the 2 electrodes are pretty near each other.

The cable that comes from the side of the kork
which probably goes to the smaller rod electrode beneath the kork
is shorted out to the copper rod coming out of the kork
inside the center of the kork.

The left opening in the top in the video
is just only for collecting the gas and putting it into a hose.

It seems that he converts 350 MilliLiters of water per
minute to oxyhydrogen gas.
That is really an amazing oxyhydrogen gas generation !

@ResinRat, thanks for the update,
what real effect did the battery have ?
Did you also try to connect it 180 degrees reversed polarity ?
What did happen then ?

Many thanks.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2006, 02:01:49 AM by hartiberlin »

hartiberlin

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8154
    • free energy research OverUnity.com
Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #66 on: November 14, 2006, 01:35:23 AM »
Hi everyone,

Just a thought. Looking at it from an equilibrium point of view, since it is a combination of chemical reactions, I wonder if increasing the concentrations of the components that favor the reduction of zinc might shift the equilibrium of the reaction back toward the zinc reduction side. This would balance the reaction and maybe avoid, or slow the depleting of the zinc electrode. This would probably slow the hydrogen production but it might still proceed at an acceptable level.

I'm just brainstorming. Somebody give me your thoughts.

Thanks for your interest.

Yes, this might work,
I guess it is a very balancing act of tuning the concentrations
of the colloidal metals in the cell.

ResinRat2

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1242
    • Hydrogen Reactor Vids
Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #67 on: November 14, 2006, 01:50:15 AM »
Hi Stefan,

Just got on a minute or so ago.

After I found the reaction had stopped I connected the positive side of the battery to the zinc electrode and the negative side to the tungsten. Nothing happened. Reversing the polarity caused the zinc electrode to begin vigorously releasing gas. This was the oxygen mentioned in the patent. The zinc began to replate on the electrode. After three hours the reaction slowed and after disconnecting the battery the hydrogen started to be produced again.

Sorry I failed you as a chemist Dingus. I guess I've been cooking polymers too long and have gotten rusty (lol). Seriously, I think I need to look more closely at each reaction in this cell and perhaps try adjusting the concentration of the colloids or perhaps even the difference in the surface area of the electrodes to try and push the equilibrium of the cell toward the replating of the zinc. I was extremely busy today with other work and have not had the time or energy to really study this matter in more detail. The patent is very detailed, and I am sure the answer is in the reactions that make up the total cell.

Maybe even the idea of using two cells with opposite oxidation-reduction states of the zinc tied together could power each other, and produce hydrogen or oxygen the whole time.

Thanks for your time. I can only do my best.



Dingus Mungus

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 859
Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #68 on: November 14, 2006, 02:09:46 AM »
It seems that he converts 350 MilliLiters of water per
minute to oxyhydrogen gas.
That is really an amazing oxyhydrogen gas generation !

I have been thinking the same thing: at the rate of 350ml per minute, thats a gallon of water electrolyzed every 11 minutes if a cells lifetime can reach 100 hours like the experiment 13 suggests that cell could break down 550 gallons per lifetime. That is quite a lot of fuel and energy being produced... Even if there must be a sacrificial anode the exchange of (Zn2 + 2(H2O) ---> Zn(OH)2 + H2) is still a pretty good deal, but we must figure out this water fuel only nonreduction cell.

Dingus Mungus

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 859
Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #69 on: November 14, 2006, 02:21:42 AM »
Sorry I failed you as a chemist Dingus. I guess I've been cooking polymers too long and have gotten rusty (lol).

Seriously, I think I need to look more closely at each reaction in this cell and perhaps try adjusting the concentration of the colloids or perhaps even the difference in the surface area of the electrodes to try and push the equilibrium of the cell toward the replating of the zinc. I was extremely busy today with other work and have not had the time or energy to really study this matter in more detail. The patent is very detailed, and I am sure the answer is in the reactions that make up the total cell.

Resin Rat for shame, never think that! you're in R&D! Failure is better then nothing, and the more failures we have, the closer we come to a solution! About your suggestion of changing the ratios of the electrolyte, I would deffinitely suggest upping the silver levels as they have the highest electronegativity of all the metals involved. Also I believe this may be a light sensitive cell, colloidal silver is apartently very reactant to light. ???

dean_mcgowan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 436
Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #70 on: November 14, 2006, 03:21:30 AM »
should the concentration of water be allowed to dimish and would this not change the colloidal concentration.

ie, if the water concentration is continually kept at a constant does this maintain the balance for the reactants better ?

Apologies in advance if this is a niave or illinformed comment.

ResinRat2

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1242
    • Hydrogen Reactor Vids
Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #71 on: November 14, 2006, 03:42:04 AM »
Hi Dean,

Actually, you have a good point. The reduction of the water would increase the colloid concentrations (ppm) in relation to the surface area of the electrodes. As the water level drops, the surface area of the electrodes also reduce. This would lower the rate at which gas is produced as well. So you would have a double change. I will need to look more closely at the reactions to see which are favored by this change.

Keeping the fluid level constant would help eliminate this shift in the equilibrium of the cell. I don't know if this is relevant but the cell stopped working for me after it had lost over 20% of its initial volume. That is when I noticed the plating on the electrodes for the first time. That was after it was left to run unattended for 40 hours or so. I didn't keep the fluid constant because I wanted to measure the water loss. This is very interesting.

I love this forum. Thanks for bringing this up Dean. I will have to look into it more closely. This may be a MAJOR variable that I never thought about.

Unfortunately, am very tired right now and need to get to sleep. I will try to look more closely at this tommorrow.

Your idea too Dingus of increasing the Ag concentration. This would push the equilibrium as well. I just can't think straight right now which direction it would favor. I will have to think about it tommorrow (or in my dreams).

Good Night all, thanks for all your ideas and interest.


Dingus Mungus

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 859
Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #72 on: November 14, 2006, 10:10:55 AM »

Dean, this is exactly why its aways good to work in groups. Thank you very much for your keen observations. This patent is very interesting I'm still trying to digest [0055]-[0058] right now. wow...

I'm going to try to obtain a cheap fuel cell so I can try to close the loop for safety and reaction medium ballance. It would probably be safer that way for anyone else whos not working with a hood. I've found some sites today with H2+Air fuelcells and its kind of expensive but worth having I suppose. If anyone else knows of a cheaper site to obtain a fuel cell from, please let me know.

Fuel cells (H2+air)
http://www.fuelcellstore.com/cgi-bin/fuelweb/view=NavPage/cat=61/sort=price
http://www.minihydrogen.dk/catalog/shop.php?cPath=57_50

As long as I'm posting that, I might as well post info on the other supplys...

NaOH
http://www.sciencelab.com/page/S/PVAR/SLS2503
http://www.chemicals-finder.com/index.asp?function=DISPLAYPRODUCT&productid=12

Colloids Ag and Mg
http://www.purestcolloids.com/mesosilver_price_list.htm#Mesosilver500mL
http://www.kellycolloidalsilver.com/site/694355/product/kcs8oz
http://www.silvermountainminerals.com/magnesium.html (needs dilluting)

Please feel free to quote and add to this list.

I'm still waiting to hear back about the WC rods... I'll let you guys know soon.

ResinRat2

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1242
    • Hydrogen Reactor Vids
Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #73 on: November 14, 2006, 11:54:48 AM »
Hi everyone,

I was looking over the 350ml/min video and maybe the idea of worring about consuming the zinc is not that important. It didn't seem like his reaction rate was hurt by the loss of water either.

The idea of replating the zinc by the input of power, say if it is an automobile, could be powered by the alternator; but I noticed when the zinc was replated during my oxygen generation it deposited on the electrode with a very irregular shape. The replated zinc also fell off the electrode with just a little jarring of the container. This would then be useless since it would not be in contact with the electrical connection and just be sitting on the bottom of the container..

I think I will begin looking at this from the point of view of maximizing the hydrogen generation and not worry about sacrificing the zinc. I was thinking that my galvanized nail didn't cost much, and it would have been easier to just replace it with a new one than to hook up a battery to reverse the current flow.

Thanks for your interest.


ResinRat2

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1242
    • Hydrogen Reactor Vids
Re: Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !
« Reply #74 on: November 14, 2006, 11:59:23 AM »
Dingus,

I'm glad you are reading over the patent. It is a great piece of work. Linnard put so much important information in it that it will take me time to digest it all.