Author Topic: Water for fuel - diesel (Read 40677 times)

resonanceman · « **Reply #30 on:** June 30, 2008, 07:37:57 PM »

Quote from: Mark69 on June 30, 2008, 06:49:03 PM

This is gonna be a great thread, exactly what I was looking for. If you go the route of just HHO, I think the form of hydrogen produced, parahydrogen, would be better for a diesel, since it is slower burning then the other form? Ironhead on this site is the expert on this, has a thread for it called "highvoltage HHO" I was trying to build my test cell but am held up at the material to hold my plates. I having trouble finding a way to hold the plates close enough together with the acrylic. I dont have a machine shop to groove it, but was going to order 1/16" thick acrylic to use between. I have a vw tdi motor i want to boost with the hho. Also, if you inject the hho after the sensor, isnt it tru the computer will not know it is there, thereby not changing the current fuel rate? (i dont have an O2 sensor).
I would love to see all water, no diesel fuel needed. But is the compression to high for that? (19.5 to 1 in mine) I look forward to the progress!!!

Thanks,
Mark

Mark

I don't think anyone here is working at powering a diesel with a HHO generator yet .........This is the place to give it a try though .

A way to hold the plates apart that I have seen used is getting plastic wire ties .... they come in quite a few sizes ........one is bound to be close to the right thickness .......

gary

nightlife · « **Reply #31 on:** June 30, 2008, 07:50:16 PM »

It seams, after reading the following pdf file, that when the water is introduced to plasma, it is creating a "cold" fog explosion. This means there is no heat and therefore would not need to be preheated to get the results.

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBFpSJS-sMYpa8Cek1PzGHH5WYgLGp5EbYiB0zypKT-db8__30ijrUD_Ai48FWCEJ0HNPnXiasFyEo1ipRExiqkMdXwFzKRoHls/Graneau%20experiments.pdf

broli · « **Reply #32 on:** June 30, 2008, 08:18:48 PM »

I've never seen the following report.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSDtCkLxQd

Was this generally known her that Stanley Meyer just used a spark plug to convert a car to run on water. This is news to me seeing people are investigating producing hydrogen on demand using the water fuel cell. Could it just be the same effect that is starting to buzz around here?

resonanceman · « **Reply #33 on:** June 30, 2008, 09:56:07 PM »

Quote from: ramset on June 30, 2008, 05:57:16 PM

ALL a diesel injector pump is like a swiss watch lubrication will be an issue However replacing the glow plug with the new plasma firestorm plug might be very interesting Chet

Chet

I don't have any experience with injectors

I had to look one up .........

http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/jag/vw/engine/fi/injpump.html

From what I see here it looks to me like it will probably work .

The biggest question deals with corrosion . If the injector is made with corrosion resistant metals it should last quite a while .

I do agree that it will not last as long as it would using oil . Water is not a very good lubricant compared to oil .......but it does have some lubricating properties .
Brass and stainless can work together for a very long time with water as the lube . as long as loading is kept low .

The possability of using a firestorm plug is interesting
I can imagine using a firestorm plug and adding an ingnition system and running it in " mixed mode "
The injector would still be needed for fuel delivery .....or else we are back to the same problem that HHO has ..........we have no quick control

gary

resonanceman · « **Reply #34 on:** June 30, 2008, 09:59:42 PM »

Nightlife and Broli

I tried to use your links but wasn't able to open either of them .

gary

broli · « **Reply #35 on:** June 30, 2008, 10:14:53 PM »

[fixed link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSDtCkLxQd8

resonanceman · « **Reply #36 on:** June 30, 2008, 10:19:36 PM »

PLAN B

Assuming that the diesel injectors won't work ....... and we have to find another way to control the output .
I still like the diesel .

From what I understand the process we are working with the plasma doesn't actually burn the water ......it just flashes it into steam .
If this is true we can use the timing of an ignition spark to control how much power is created .
As long as we are making plasma we are making more heat . I see no reason that we couldn't keep an arc going for up to around 90 degrees of the stroke .

A diesel works with higher compression and usually turns slower than a conventional engine ........so that gives us more time and pressure to play with .

Of course we would need a higher frequency inverter for sustained plasma

As I said .......this is plan B .........I am still optimistic about plan A

ramset · « **Reply #37 on:** June 30, 2008, 10:48:31 PM »

All for all of us a car is a big capitol investment one that has spoiled us with dependability running water through our 1500-3500 $ injector pumps is scary However who says we need the pump if we are using s1r tech to ignite the water circuit plug etc all we need is a water delivery system[carb] fuel injector pumps cost so much because they are very high pressure were doing a whole dif system
Nightlife have one of your mechs bring a rig up to speed [temp]kill the fuel and put an IV [ water drip] see if she keeps going Im out of town but when I get home I have an old diesel I will try this on Chet

Yucca · « **Reply #38 on:** June 30, 2008, 11:00:48 PM »

Quote from: nightlife on June 30, 2008, 07:50:16 PM

It seams, after reading the following pdf file, that when the water is introduced to plasma, it is creating a "cold" fog explosion. This means there is no heat and therefore would not need to be preheated to get the results.

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBFpSJS-sMYpa8Cek1PzGHH5WYgLGp5EbYiB0zypKT-db8__
30ijrUD_Ai48FWCEJ0HNPnXiasFyEo1ipRExiqkMdXwFzKRoHls/Graneau%20experiments.pdf

The Graneau experiments, Oh yes a very interesting read and extremely relevant to this thread, here it is for people without yahoo group login:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=get93

resonanceman · « **Reply #39 on:** June 30, 2008, 11:03:37 PM »

Quote from: broli on June 30, 2008, 10:14:53 PM

[fixed link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSDtCkLxQd8

Good find on that video

It is kind of like what I was planning on doing

a metered amount of water put in that thing would make a controlled amount of heat .

That heat will be injected into the cylinder at supersonic speed

As the air in the cylinder mixed with the plasma it would expand .........much like if it was burning .

It is nice to know it has been done before................it is not nice to know that no one knows anything about it now . .

gary

ramset · « **Reply #40 on:** June 30, 2008, 11:13:29 PM »

gary it hasn't that is theory revolving around an anomaly 90 yrs old no one put this to a car [except S1r] they put it to metal forming in the 60's who wants to burn water? where do you make money? NOW we play NOW we see!!! something as passive as water puts the little guy on the Map Chet
there is a patent a man has on water steam /gas engine it switches to water at 500 degrees and back to gas below that the only reason I bring it up is in a diesel once it is running we may not even need a plasma plug or we may find the diesel fitted with spark plugs will burn water just like a ICE just add a carb time will tell

resonanceman · « **Reply #41 on:** June 30, 2008, 11:13:59 PM »

Quote from: ramset on June 30, 2008, 10:48:31 PM

All for all of us a car is a big capitol investment one that has spoiled us with dependability running water through our 1500-3500 $ injector pumps is scary However who says we need the pump if we are using s1r tech to ignite the water circuit plug etc all we need is a water delivery system[carb] fuel injector pumps cost so much because they are very high pressure were doing a whole dif system
Nightlife have one of your mechs bring a rig up to speed [temp]kill the fuel and put an IV [ water drip] see if she keeps going Im out of town but when I get home I have an old diesel I will try this on Chet

Chet

I agree ....... I think there are lots of ways to get it done .
I am still planning on using the injectors . I am sure others will be working on other ways

gary

resonanceman · « **Reply #42 on:** June 30, 2008, 11:25:08 PM »

Quote from: broli on June 30, 2008, 10:14:53 PM

[fixed link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSDtCkLxQd8

Did anyone else notice that he only has a spark plug wire coming out of that thing .........and a blue connector that I am guessing is for water .

gary

Tinker · « **Reply #43 on:** June 30, 2008, 11:44:39 PM »

Chet

What you say is valid but but would we not be better served by using the existing components where ever we can.

One option to the lubrication issue I can think of can be found here
http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blteflon.htm

The question here is can it be mixed with H20 or would it need to be injected from another source, and will it cause a problem during combustion.

P.S. your right about the Detroit diesel's

Be well
Tinker

nightlife · « **Reply #44 on:** July 01, 2008, 12:22:13 AM »

ramset,

Quote

Nightlife have one of your mechs bring a rig up to speed [temp]kill the fuel and put an IV [ water drip] see if she keeps going Im out of town but when I get home I have an old diesel I will try this on Chet

That is a good test to try and I will try that tomorrow with a 6.9 diesel.

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