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Author Topic: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE  (Read 1405387 times)

Dazzasta

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #675 on: July 09, 2008, 02:29:07 PM »
Hi all,

This is my first post, i've been following this forum since christmas, and got my '81 landcruiser running on hydrogen, but until now didn't feel i had anything to offer.
This may sound really basic although i am;;;;;;; As i uderstand the inverter is used to supply amps with the coil discharge accross the spark gap to creat the plasma arc; but when using 110v or 240v you are supplimenting volts for amps, has anyone tried getting rid of the transformer and rectifiers and connecting straight to 12v or 24v along with coil discharge.
Although this may be a delicate act of the right amount of volts, the right amount of amps, the right amount of water and the right engine to get this thing going, it's well worth the effort.

hope i've been some help.
Keep up the good work

tinu

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Re: 7 degree temp drop
« Reply #676 on: July 09, 2008, 03:29:21 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cInPBfJ2nT0
7 degree temp drop

This piece of info is crucial! Many, many thanks and please accept me bothering you with several more questions. I?m currently working on deciphering the theory behind the main subject and any piece of experimental evidences will keep me on track.

1. A small white light is seen on the spark plug at all times. Is it the spot of the laser gun (and the spot where you take temperature readings)? If not, does the light mean something or it is just an artifact of the camera / reflection of the main light in the room? Also, if not, where does the IR gun take readings more exactly?

2. Temperature drop is from 77F (25C) to 70F (21.1C) in about 4s then the sparks are interrupted. (I don?t know if this is purposely or accidental). Can you please re-make the experiment for a longer discharge time (10-15s) and then also by adding a mist of water for comparison?

3. Please confirm that the IR thermometer is TE 261, having an accuracy of +/-2% (4F/2C), automatic compensation for temperature deviations from ambient temperature, sample rate 1s; if different, please let me know the specifications/model.

4. As far as I know, IR thermometers are based on emissivity values and consequently they may be severely affected because of that. Do you think that light from the discharge may severely confuse the thermometer thus affect the readings? If so, is it possible to place a thin&black object in between the spark and IR sensor and to repeat the measurements? Thin ? for small thermal inertia; black for blocking the light; surface properties and emissivity value may be adjusted through a different calibration experiment.

Again, I thank you very much in advance and please apologize for any trouble. Imho, the results of your experiments may be fundamental for advancing into the water-engine issue.

Best regards,
Tinu

gotoluc

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Re: 7 degree temp drop
« Reply #677 on: July 09, 2008, 03:32:17 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cInPBfJ2nT0
7 degree temp drop

Thank you Aaron for doing once again an important test and great video demonstration to show there is something quite interesting going on here.

Luc

allcanadian

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #678 on: July 09, 2008, 04:21:41 PM »
@quiman
Congratulations, You are one of very few people to get this far :)
It's interesting that this effect(electrostatic cooling) is almost completely absent in the scientific literature but has been around for a very long time. The most noteable person to utilize this effect was Victor Schauberger some 80 years ago, many people equate Schauberger with water and the vortex but this was only a small part of his work. Victor stated he could produce 2 million volts potential from a single drop of water using capilliary tubes and a small suction source! and the resultant "cold expansion" could produce a large temperature drop. In the right context this cold expansion could also produce a perfect vacuum to power his devices . In our world we equate heat with expansion and cold with contraction but this seems to be a bit of an illusion as heat and cold are not "something" they are a condition of "something". If only heat expands and only cold contracts then why is our cold upper atmosphere at a low pressure? It should be very dense if it has supposedly contracted. We could also say radiating energy is expansive relative to the source and contractive relative to its target. In any case if heat is not produced I think it is safe to assume the forces involved are electrostatic in nature, as everthing is.

DrStiffler

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #679 on: July 09, 2008, 04:46:23 PM »
@quiman & All

Interesting indeed as I have worked with electrostatic cooling for some 5 years now, it is still a thrill to see how many different ways it can be invoked.

For a starter for those that are not familiar with the effect you could start at http://www.rexresearch.com/blomgren/blomgren.htm and a google in the subject will bring up many interesting papers, it seems welding is familiar with the effect. I am also aware that NASA has and is doing research in this area.

Now a simple question, the cooling in the video appears to go down at a near constant rate, but once the arc is stopped it at once returns to the 77' mark, I'm not understanding why we wuld not see a ramp back up to the 77', if surfaces are cooled how do they at once obtain instant ambient temperature?

Thanks, forever interesting.....

alan

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #680 on: July 09, 2008, 05:10:27 PM »
@qiman
There are things happening in the spark which we don't fully understand. I was thinking, maybe the ir light from the ir temperature meter is being absorbed or manipulated or whatever, therefore it isn't showing the correct temperature. Maybe a low-tech temp-meter should be used, just to be sure it is really dropping.
Just a thought. 8)

(I see tinu asked the same)

goldenequity

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #681 on: July 09, 2008, 07:29:21 PM »
For those with a spark/arc setup.... I have a simple idea that I would like someone to try out.
then again, maybe not so simple, but you never know... until you find out.

The concept would be to use capillary action.... instead of fog and mist.

A bottle of water suspended with a capillary tube output that enables a small "ball" of water to hang at its tip.
Place the "ball" between the electrodes and fire it up and tell us what happens.

I would think getting the tube to "re-feed" another "ball" in sync with the next spark might be a problem,
but I would think we could fire off at least one. ;D

Just a thought.  :)

ramset

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #682 on: July 09, 2008, 07:36:08 PM »
Does any one know if the ceramic formula for a spark plug is difficult to duplicate ? Chet
Actually I just realized something    ceramic epoxies are used on the shuttle   ITW developed this Tech for NASA years ago and marketed it later on   and it is still available   However they where fighting high temp this does not seem relevant here[temp]so casting a plug with a water jacket just got a lot easier

HHOwanabe

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #683 on: July 09, 2008, 07:39:59 PM »
Hi all.  Please HELP!
I am not an EE and not that good at auto mechanics either. But I am very excited about the work you all are doing on making a (standard) internal cumbustion engine run on water. It looks very doable and promising.  I got so excited I wanted to try Ossi's experiment as posted on page 6 reply #235.  I bought all the parts, except the strobe light which I could not find.  Now, looking at the diagram and pictures it appears the battery + and - wires go into the strobe light and from there the + wire seems to go through the coil + side to the plug AND around the coil to the plug (with diodes in this path to protect against curent backflow (layman terms). The - wire looks like it goes to the coil - side then to ground at (effectively) the plug base.  It also appears (in the video) that the strobe light creates a pulsing action that causes the plug to spark about every second.  So, I decided since I did not have the strobe light, I could just wire up the  test according to the digram and pictures, (making sure the diodes were wired in the same direction) then connect the - wire to the battery - terminal.  To complete the circuit and create a spark, I would just tap the + wire to the + batery terminal.  But alas when I tried this, no spark?  Then, I disconnected the + wire from the + side of the coil and the plug, tapped the + wire to the + side of the battery, and wala, spark!  In laymans terms, is that strobe light providing some magical separation of the current such that it goes to directly to the plug sometimes then breaks that current to go through the coil to the plug the next time?  Thanks all of you for your research and for the help you provide to those of us not quite as talented as yourselves.

resonanceman

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #684 on: July 09, 2008, 08:04:04 PM »
Does any one know if the ceramic formula for a spark plug is difficult to duplicate ? Chet
Actually I just realized something    ceramic epoxies are used on the shuttle   ITW developed this Tech for NASA years ago and marketed it later on   and it is still available   However they where fighting high temp this does not seem relevant here[temp]so casting a plug with a water jacket just got a lot easier


Ramset

On my  thread

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5088.0.html

In  reply 4  I have  the part #  and link  for  what I plan to try .

It is  a 2 part  mix


I have not  tried it  yet   


gary


bumfuzzled

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #685 on: July 09, 2008, 10:45:58 PM »
Hi all.  Please HELP!
I am not an EE and not that good at auto mechanics either. But I am very excited about the work you all are doing on making a (standard) internal cumbustion engine run on water. It looks very doable and promising.  I got so excited I wanted to try Ossi's experiment as posted on page 6 reply #235.  I bought all the parts, except the strobe light which I could not find.  Now, looking at the diagram and pictures it appears the battery + and - wires go into the strobe light and from there the + wire seems to go through the coil + side to the plug AND around the coil to the plug (with diodes in this path to protect against curent backflow (layman terms). The - wire looks like it goes to the coil - side then to ground at (effectively) the plug base.  It also appears (in the video) that the strobe light creates a pulsing action that causes the plug to spark about every second.  So, I decided since I did not have the strobe light, I could just wire up the  test according to the digram and pictures, (making sure the diodes were wired in the same direction) then connect the - wire to the battery - terminal.  To complete the circuit and create a spark, I would just tap the + wire to the + batery terminal.  But alas when I tried this, no spark?  Then, I disconnected the + wire from the + side of the coil and the plug, tapped the + wire to the + side of the battery, and wala, spark!  In laymans terms, is that strobe light providing some magical separation of the current such that it goes to directly to the plug sometimes then breaks that current to go through the coil to the plug the next time?  Thanks all of you for your research and for the help you provide to those of us not quite as talented as yourselves.

 I'm not sure I understand you but there is only one wire hooked to + on the coil. The strobe acts as a set of points would in an ignition system.

HHOwanabe

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #686 on: July 09, 2008, 11:33:41 PM »
Bumfuzzled,
Thanks for the quick response.  According to the diagram (on pg 6 reply #235) the + wire goes from the strobe to the + side of coil.  In that path, is a conection for another wire (with diodes) that goes to the plug cap.  In the picture, that second wire actually comes from the + side of the coil to the plug cap.  The coil output (large plug wire) also goes to the plug cap.  I used 14g wire for the primary wiring and 10g wire to go from the coil output to the plug.  I use gator clamps at the ends of all wires.  My plug is a Champion CJ8, which the salesman told me was a non-resistor plug.
I agree that the strob simply simulates a cars distributor.  But what I don't understand, is why when I wire up this test as shown in the diagram and pictures (without the strobe though) I get no spark when I tap the + side of the battery with the  wire going to the coils + terminal.  If I remove the wire going from the + coil terminal to the plug, I do get a (normal) spark.  Totaly confused???

lasher23

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #687 on: July 09, 2008, 11:51:47 PM »
Hello all,

I'm a novice, but I've been working on this project too. I fried my inverter and I've decided to use allCanadians cap charging circuit with my setup. I've got everything setup andI can charge my HV cap
to over a thousand volts easily enough. My problem is that the voltage leaks out of the cap very, very quickly. I know this is a newb question, but how do I dump that voltage quickly into my coil? I'm trying to be of use, but if this post is too off topic, delete it and I'll figure it out myself.

Thanks for any assistance.

NerzhDishual

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #688 on: July 10, 2008, 01:03:27 AM »

Hi AllCanadian and All(Canadian and else ;D)

IMHO, we are on the same pages...
My motto is : Back to Basics...

Two examples:
1) The programming language FORTRAN II has 4 major instructions:
a) Test: IF(Logical_Expression) Label1, Label2, Label3
b) Affectation: Variable = Expression
c) {ON expression} GOTO Label{s}
d) DO label, Expression (this could be avoided by using IF and GOTO)

I had in my archives an old LISP compiler written in FORTRAN II.
I 're-wrote' this compiler in a more 'modern' (but Basic :)) language.

2) To design a software for a (one color) "Computer Drafting Table" (what do you call
that?), you only need 3 instructions:
a) Pen Up
b) Pen Down
c) GOTO X,Y
I have done it: a (first level) DXF interpreter with an old  but very 'accurate'
TEKTRONIC(?) Table that was only given these 3 basic instructions.
----------------------------------------------------------------
This is not to boast about anything, but just for pointing out that, IMHO, the
simplest the best for first testing and figuring out how things could work.
I do believe that nature is simple and that we must also be simple and humble.
"Heureux les simples d'esprit, ils seront les premiers au royaume des cieux".
-----------------------------------------------------------------
At the beginning you got an egg. Then a chicken.....
...............................
I mean no offence but all this talk of engines and sparkplugs seems very premature, kind
of like deciding how to cook your chicken before you have an egg...
.....................................................

Now, just for the fun(?), some interpretations of 2 Tesla patents:

(http://freenrg.info/Pic/AllCanadian_Tesla_Pat_568177_Outline.jpg)
(http://freenrg.info/Pic/My_Tesla_pat_568177_Redraw.jpg)
(http://freenrg.info/Pic/My_Tesla_pat_609250_Redraw.jpg)

Do you see any differences?
I swear that I was not aware of my first drawing when I did the second one some weeks later.

Keep cool, the said Tesla patents are here:
http://freenrg.info/Patents/Tesla/TESLA_US00568177.pdf
http://freenrg.info/Patents/Tesla/TESLA_US00609250.pdf

Best


 

qiman

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #689 on: July 10, 2008, 01:17:35 AM »
That video showed only a few seconds of a test. Not only long enough to see that the off time temp when shutting off has brought the temp down, but it did show that it did NOT increase it whereas for the same input conventionally with a regular spark DOES heat it up.

Here is what I also did to eliminate any interference, I measured the temp when it was off....ran it for several minutes...turn it off and measure again... the temp either stays the same or it drops. There is no effect from from EMP from the circuit, etc...

Anyway, everyone doing this probably has gotten this far. Just has anyone measured the temp of what they're getting?