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Author Topic: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE  (Read 1405611 times)

IndianaBoys

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #600 on: July 07, 2008, 11:06:23 PM »

A question
Wath is the krup plug design mentioned by kenpo???

cheers
Ri


He is referring to the FireStorm Sparkplug:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Firestorm_spark_plug

Don't bother calling the phone number mentioned in the peswiki article from the link above that is located in the 586 area code as the plugs cannot be found there.  Somebody must have played a trick on this guy as he gets upset and slams the phone down when asking about the plugs. 

"The new "Master Distributor" is Yee Automotive. They are located at: 16541 East Ten Mile Road. Eastpointe, Michigan 48021-1192. Their phone number is (586) xxx-xxxx"  This is not a true statement.

FireStorm's Capabilities First, let's look at what Krupa's FireStorm spark plugs give an internal combustion engine:

More horsepower;
44?50% increase in mpg;
Dramatic decrease in emissions.
Second, let's see what FireStorm plugs eliminate:

Smog pump;
Catalytic converter;
Radio frequency interference (RFI) and the use of resistors in the centre electrode;
Gap growth;
Exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) systems;
Misfire/hesitation/detonation/stutter and stumble.
How, you may ask, is all this achieved? In a word, plasma. The revolutionary design of FireStorm spark plugs creates an electric plasma that fills the entire combustion chamber like a firestorm. It allows you to take an internal combustion engine from the standard 14.7:1 air-to-fuel ratio to an incredibly lean 24:1. At this ratio, all the air/fuel mixture is burned much more efficiently without increasing heat, thus giving an engine more power and fuel economy while creating much less pollution.

IndianaBoys

geovel56

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #601 on: July 08, 2008, 12:16:41 AM »
Luc started this thread for the purpose of trying to determine what was in S1R's magic silver can when he posted his video of successfully running an 18 HP Briggs & Straton engine on TAP WATER alone.  Luc also was given Moderator privileges to weed out extraneous posts that were not related to the primary goal of trying to develop a simple circuit to create a plasma arc.

Ossie, Luc, Capacitor70 and others have successfully developed simple circuits.  Now we need to see if any of them work on an engine.  Capacitor70 showed his circuit did work when his motorcycle/scooter kickstarted and ran for a short period of time on water alone.

The theories and opinions on whether this is overunity is NOT the point of this particular thread.  Shiver, Broli and a few others seem intent on giving their opinions about how they think things work which does nothing other than distract the work that is being done by those that were here following LUC's wishes on this thread.

Shiver, Broli, and the other "crapsters" as Dr. S so eloquently and perfectly phrased it... you're entitled to your opinion and like opinions, they are like butts.... everyone has one and they smell bad.  If you have nothing to add to this particular thread in developing and enhancing the circuit necessary to produce the plasma arc, AND help this forum continue to the next step in getting an engine to run on water by this method, kindly read along and feel free to follow this thread, but off topic opinions aren't welcome and only serve to "UNFOCUS" Luc's vision and mission for THIS THREAD.  Stop posting BS not related to what this thread was created for!  We are trying to get a vehicle to run using water INSTEAD of fossil fuels.  Why does this seem to be so hard to comprehend without pointless banter?

Enough already!

caz

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #602 on: July 08, 2008, 12:29:06 AM »
The closest thing to a Firestorm spark plug that I have found on the market is,
http://www.extremespark.com/index.html
I'm waiting on mine to come in so I can test them. Chris

allcanadian

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #603 on: July 08, 2008, 01:07:30 AM »
@All
I use this simple circuit to charge a 1uF/1200v capacitor to 250v with a single quick press of switch(SW).It doesn't get any cheaper or more simple than that.You can use any diode rated above the voltage you want, the transformer secondaries act as an inductor and I have charged my cap to over 1000v by using a HV microwave transformer as an inductor. Just think 12 volts directly to almost any voltage you desire with a few switch closures and SW can be replaced with a relay, there is no more efficient way to charge a capacitor I know of. What you do with the charged capacitor is up to you. ;)

resonanceman

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #604 on: July 08, 2008, 01:23:03 AM »
The closest thing to a Firestorm spark plug that I have found on the market is,
http://www.extremespark.com/index.html
I'm waiting on mine to come in so I can test them. Chris

Chris

They   look good .
They  don't  list  their  prices on their website
Do you mind  telling us  how  much they  charged you?

They  don;t say  they have resistors ......but there is  what  they call a pressure seal ......or something like that.
They say it is   made of  carbon and  glass fiber .  .........I wonder  if   they have a non  resistor version . 
 IF  so  it could  be a  big help here.

 .   
gary

TheOne

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #605 on: July 08, 2008, 01:35:38 AM »
Chris

They   look good .
They  don't  list  their  prices on their website
Do you mind  telling us  how  much they  charged you?

They  don;t say  they have resistors ......but there is  what  they call a pressure seal ......or something like that.
They say it is   made of  carbon and  glass fiber .  .........I wonder  if   they have a non  resistor version . 
 IF  so  it could  be a  big help here.

 .   
gary

They are custom made using other plug, they sell it 20$ each, In my opinion the pulstar plug are yeah better.

I asked to pulstar if they plan to upgadre there plug with firestorm, see the reply

Quote
There is a reason all  current sophisticated engine platforms use a fine wire electrode. This is opposite technology. Large round electrodes increase cycle-to-cycle variability in ionization voltage resulting in inconsistent combustion quality. I do not want to get into a technology issue but will say we have tested all forms of electrodes and gap architecture to discover that delivered electrical power is much more contributory to combustion quality.

Thank you for your time and comments

resonanceman

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #606 on: July 08, 2008, 01:37:09 AM »
@All
I use this simple circuit to charge a 1uF/1200v capacitor to 250v with a single quick press of switch(SW).It doesn't get any cheaper or more simple than that.You can use any diode rated above the voltage you want, the transformer secondaries act as an inductor and I have charged my cap to over 1000v by using a HV microwave transformer as an inductor. Just think 12 volts directly to almost any voltage you desire with a few switch closures and SW can be replaced with a relay, there is no more efficient way to charge a capacitor I know of. What you do with the charged capacitor is up to you. ;)

Allcanadian

A  couple of  questions
Does the  secondary somehow control  the  voltage that  it will  charge to ?

Does  the  size  of the  transformer  matter ?

I have a big   transformer  from an old  UPS  just sitting here waiting to be used for something .


gary   


resonanceman

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #607 on: July 08, 2008, 01:59:48 AM »
They are custom made using other plug, they sell it 20$ each, In my opinion the pulstar plug are yeah better.

I asked to pulstar if they plan to upgadre there plug with firestorm, see the reply


Thanks  TheOne

2  concerns  I have with the  pulstar 
Will it  handle   the inverter  current?   The  diagram shows the  pulse circuit  in line  with the  center  conductor .

About   the  gap
Their   Fac  sheet  says

Q: What gap setting do I use for Pulstar??

A: If your vehicle manual calls for a gap less than .040" then use the factory recommended settings. Under no circumstances should you set the gap to greater the .040", regardless of the manual setting. Back to top

Could  it  be that to big of a gap  causes  higher  voltage in the plug and could   burn  the pulse circuit out?

I think I  like the Torque Master better
I also think that  the  Torque Master design  might  help    with  oil  fouling like   Capicator   had trouble with

gary

kenbo0422

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #608 on: July 08, 2008, 02:13:45 AM »
The Krupa plug is NOT a Firestorm.  The original design was to change the center electrode into a hemisphere and surround it with a crossing arc (two arcs crossed equidistant from the center electrode).  This required a boost in the electrical system as we are describing here.  The result of the design is that the plug produces a large even plasma effect rather than a concentrated arc.  When used with conventional fuel engines, the engine runs cooler, the emissions decrease (better burn) and a significant increase in power (again, better burn from initiation to total consumption).  It didn't catch on in this form because nobody was designing engines with this kind of electrical boost and the manufacturers of plugs weren't going to retool to try it out (even though spark plug manufacturing is yawningly simple -- they were basically lazy and if it didn't turn a buck immediately, to hell with it...).  The Firestorm is a conventional plug design with very little if any of the original Krupa plasma plug design.

Again, has this been tested?  The mods to a plug can be done at home.  I'm not sure of the metal used in the electrodes, but it would be wise to choose the same materials, just in case.  Although, the lesser heat signature seems to point to being able to use more common steels.

I've been busy the last few years.  I learned to work metal in a home hobby shop with a mini lathe and mini mill.  Its my retirement toys.  The mods for this don't even require these kinds of tools.  I'm expecting to see a larger cracking of the water droplet simply because of the expanded plasma.  I must say, that even if it isn't overunity or =1, we have an engine, so to speak, that runs more on water than on fuel.  Imagine this, a gallon of fuel at $15.00 and 10 gals. of water and being able to drive all week.  That is still damned significant.  Consider it a byproduct of your research, throw it out to the masses, and continue research. Don't sit on it because it hasn't come to the final desired outcome.  Patent it if you wish and make the patent public property so the greedy ones don't sit on it.


TheOne

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #609 on: July 08, 2008, 02:16:58 AM »
Will it  handle   the inverter  current?   The  diagram shows the  pulse circuit  in line  with the  center  conductor .

Good question, its something I think they dont even have an answer. I sent the question I should receive an answer by tomorow :)

The only thing that bother me is 20$ for a plug made from other is kinda a lot, someone will need to try with one plug  (Torque Master) to see if this is a good option.



gettinwet

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #610 on: July 08, 2008, 02:19:00 AM »
new plug...thanks to gettinwet for this one http://e3sparkplugs.com/diamondfire.htm

I forgot my questions in the other thread were pertinate here as well so I'll ask. Has anyone tried aircraft style spark plugs? They do not have the standard "L" shaped electrode as most automotive plugs. Also, Mercury Marine uses a similar design plug in their old thunderbolt ignition engines. I will get the AC part number tomorrow when I get to the shop. Short of combing back thru the whole thread, has anyone mentioned the HV output voltages of the ignition coils being used? Since I do not totally understand all of the electrical happenings with the circuit you guys are using I must ask, What would happen to the spark intensity if a higher voltage ignition coil were used? Pardon my questions but I know engines not electronics.

Thanks,
Wet

TheOne

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #611 on: July 08, 2008, 02:35:13 AM »
I forgot my questions in the other thread were pertinate here as well so I'll ask. Has anyone tried aircraft style spark plugs? They do not have the standard "L" shaped electrode as most automotive plugs. Also, Mercury Marine uses a similar design plug in their old thunderbolt ignition engines. I will get the AC part number tomorrow when I get to the shop. Short of combing back thru the whole thread, has anyone mentioned the HV output voltages of the ignition coils being used? Since I do not totally understand all of the electrical happenings with the circuit you guys are using I must ask, What would happen to the spark intensity if a higher voltage ignition coil were used? Pardon my questions but I know engines not electronics.

Thanks,
Wet

This plug looks like the haloplug http://www.haloplug.com/
I used this plug on my last vehicle (jeep) and I see the big difference in the engine.

But I still think pulstar are making a better spark

hartiberlin

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #612 on: July 08, 2008, 02:48:11 AM »
@geo,

There must be more to it than that. Your saying that the only energy being input is that from the spark. In turn the energy in the spark can only come from one place: the electrical supply (whether battery or mains). If thats your hypothesis, then there are FAR more efficient ways to turn electrical energy into rotational mechanical energy: for example a simple electric motor. So, physics-degreed though you may be, I think your mistaking the principle upon which this machine is operating.

-Mike
.

That is right.
 We must test, how big the overunity factor is, otherwise if the process is not overunity
it makes more sense to use an electric motor to drive a car.

One easy thing to measure it would be in some kind of electrial plasma canon.

Just put the sparkplug into a iron tube and take a 1 Kg iron weight for example,that
fits well sliding into the tube.

Then use water with the sparkplug and a defined charged capacitor voltage
to fire the High Voltage and discharge the lower voltage cap.
Then you can see how high the 1 Kg weight will be shot out into the air.
Measure this height difference and measure the voltage difference on the
cap and you can calculate the energies used and got out.
So potential height energy is:
Epot= m x g x h
Epot= potential height energy
m= mass
g= 9.81 earth acceleration
h= height difference

Electrical input energy can be measured at the cap:

Ecap= 0.5 x C x V^2

Ecap= stored electrical energy
C= capacitance in Farad
V= Voltage at the cap.

So for an example:

If you charge up a 100 uF cap to 400 Volts, you have
Ecap= 0.5 x 0.0001 F x (400 Volts)^2=
8 Joules ( Wattsseconds) of energy stored inside the cap.

Now calculate the height you must shoot the 1 Kg weight up to be
at least unity COP=1.

Ecap=Epot=8 Joules= 1 Kg x 9.81 x height.
So height = 8 Joules / 9.81= 81.5 cm

So you have to shoot up the 1 Kg weight more than  81.5 cm to be OverUnity !

I hope somebody can show this.

Regards, Stefan.

caz

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #613 on: July 08, 2008, 02:53:01 AM »
Gary, I bought a set for my 91' Honda Civic Hatchback 1.5L, $11.00 each $7.00 shipping. Had them quote a set for my 88' ford 5.0L V8 F150 $7.00 each. I don't know at this point if they are resistor plugs or not, but I think that they are a small enough company to build what ever we need. I will let you know for sure when I receive them. As an Automotive Machinist with 40 plus years of learning, 2 stroke weedeaters/ chainsaws, 4 stroke singles to V12's, 3208 CAT diesel's I'm excited to test these with this new circut. Out of respect for Luc, Ossie, Xbox and anyone else that has actually done testing and attempeted to apply this concepet to an ICE I have been limiting my comments to this thread in order to not muck it up. I must however interject a comment on the issue of timing. With HHO you must retard the timing to only 8-10 degrees ATDC because of the rapid combustion of the mixture in the combustion chamber. Water by itself won't produce a faster flame front than HHO so I suggest keeping your timing closer to the 8-10 degree so as not to waste critical degrees on the power stroke.
Chris

lasher23

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #614 on: July 08, 2008, 03:06:38 AM »
Hello all,

I've been following this discussion since the beginning. I'm not an electronics expert, but I replicated the circuit and had my spark-plug delivering a nice fat arc. Anyway, I was wondering if this setup could be run from anything other than an inverter. I borrowed the inverter I was using and it's gone now. I cannot afford one and I'd rather not give up. Could I feed 120 from the wall socket straight into my rectifier for testing purposes? I hate the thought of giving up now and could use some advice.

Thanks all and keep up the research, someone will crack this yet.