Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Custom Search

Author Topic: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE  (Read 1405644 times)

bumfuzzled

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #435 on: July 04, 2008, 04:33:20 PM »
Hi bumfuzzled,

Please see the last circuit and results I posted as follows:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5024.msg109796.html#msg109796

I have run this circuit up to 100Hz with no problems. At 70Hz it only uses 5 amps at 12V on the inverter's input. The inverter was delivering only 60 watts where it is designed to deliver up to 300 watts continuously. I know you have been blowing up inverters and are trying to do this but please try and read and understand all of the previous posts regarding the circuits. Get someone to help you if you need to. This may help you to have more success.

Regards,

Ossie



I remember you posting that now that you mention it but my point is (and I guess I should have stated it) that on a V8 motor you've got 8 times the pulsing going on of that of a single cylinder motor. So at 3000 rpm on a V8 motor you've got it pulsing at 200 times a second. I recall S1R saying his car would only idle, someting to think about. I'm not trying to cause problems so don't think I am, I'm just bringing up legit questions. I'm with the other guy that said if people try this circuit and it don't work because, like me, they don't know electronics or because it will only let the motor hit a few times or only idle then you'll have people out there saying that it doesn't work. I want this to work just as much as anybody out there.


EDIT: I edited this post because I forgot that a V8 does not have a waste spark. The distributor is turned by the cam and it turns half the speed the crankshaft does so there is no waste spark.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 05:19:03 PM by bumfuzzled »

tishatang

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 296
Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #436 on: July 04, 2008, 04:34:05 PM »
@bumfuzzled

Thanks for the tip to change the timing.  I am not a small engine mechanic.  It seems to me, I remember years ago reading using offset keys to change timing.  Of course those guys had a machine shop to get the timing exactly where they wanted it.

It all seems moot because Cap70 answered me on another thread that his motor had no altered timing.  This seems contradictory to what I recall the original guy said with the running V-8, that the timing was retarded 25 degrees.  It is also moot for me because he also said two-cycle engines will not work because the water sits on the piston.  He said to use 4-cycle with high compression.  So that leaves out my electric start two-cycle engine.  Unless maybe the water was pre misted instead of liquid?

I just had a thought for the day someone is ready for a big engine.
In my old hot-rodding days they had belt driven Paxton centrifugal superchargers.  If you installed one after the carb, the high speed fan would help mix the water droplets before the engine.   

tishatang

bumfuzzled

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #437 on: July 04, 2008, 04:40:17 PM »
@bumfuzzled

Thanks for the tip to change the timing.  I am not a small engine mechanic.  It seems to me, I remember years ago reading using offset keys to change timing.  Of course those guys had a machine shop to get the timing exactly where they wanted it.

It all seems moot because Cap70 answered me on another thread that his motor had no altered timing.  This seems contradictory to what I recall the original guy said with the running V-8, that the timing was retarded 25 degrees.  It is also moot for me because he also said two-cycle engines will not work because the water sits on the piston.  He said to use 4-cycle with high compression.  So that leaves out my electric start two-cycle engine.  Unless maybe the water was pre misted instead of liquid?

I just had a thought for the day someone is ready for a big engine.
In my old hot-rodding days they had belt driven Paxton centrifugal superchargers.  If you installed one after the carb, the high speed fan would help mix the water droplets before the engine.   

tishatang


I'm not sure what he means by it sits on the piston but a 2 stroke is not a good idea because the fuel/air mixture goes thru the crankcase first, that's why you mix the oil with it, to lube the bearings on the crank and rod. If you run just water thru it it will seize up pretty quickly.

I have a Trans Am sitting in the garage with a roots supercharger on it and yes the thought has crossed my mind of one day runing it on water. That would have many benefits that I won't go into at the moment.

allcanadian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1317
Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #438 on: July 04, 2008, 04:44:29 PM »
I think EV Gray used a circuit almost identical to the one posted, my understanding was that a HV source was used to produce a plasma arc across two conductors, this plasma would then conduct a large 12v current source(batteries) across the conductors. Plasma is a perfect conductor thus the HV arc was used as a means to switch a large current source on and off much like ionization does in radio tubes. Because the HV arc controls the duration time of the large current source the discharge time can be made extremely small. As well there must be two currents flowing in the conducting space, one high voltage/low amps the other low voltage/high amps which is interesting in itself. This small duration high energy impulse between the conductors was said to produce "radiant" effects that EV Gray used to power an electric motor and recharge his batteries. There is the possibility this is a very "natural" process, when we consider lightning we have always thought that the discharge is a high voltage/high current discharge. But maybe the high voltage discharge in lightning is nothing more than a conducting path for the naturally occurring potential gradient (100v/m)found in earths atmosphere--the current source. Nicola Tesla in his "colorado notes" also mentions the fact that lightning appears to be "thicker" at its root nearest the earth and that he had measured standing waves in earths atmosphere produced by lightning strikes.
Very interesting stuff  ;D
« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 05:33:32 PM by allcanadian »

gotoluc

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3096
Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #439 on: July 04, 2008, 05:09:29 PM »
Hi everyone, just to let you all know I posted this reply to Super God's post at the other topic.

Luc

I don't know why luc created the other thread.  We have gotten excellent results with capacitor70's circuit.  User jcbx6 over in the waterfuel1978 group has gotten his volvo to run on water with the same circuit capcitor70 is using.  So over here we are making progress rapidly.  The postal service is slower than molasses so I still have to wait before I can get mine working too.

By the way, I don't think this system uses THAT much electricity that it would drain a battery.  You would need two, however, because the starter motor drags down the voltage so much it would put the inverter in self protect mode.

Looking good so far, full steam ahead.

Hi Sg, I created the other thread because I found that water explosion could be achieved without a large capacitive discharge and that seems to be very interesting and worth looking at just that. Also please note that S1R has said his system does not use capacitors.  So, in order to not create confusion in this thread since you are using a different approach I started a new topic. At this time my updated circuit (on page one) of the topic I started uses only 1uf or 2uf depending on the inverter output.

Are you sure user jcbx6 at the waterfuel1978 group is saying his Volvo is working on water at this time?

@capacitor70 my congratulations :D to you in demonstrating that it is truly possible to get a ICE to run on water ;)

Keep up this important research :) we will find the way to get this done one way or another.

Luc

k4zep

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 650
Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #440 on: July 04, 2008, 05:30:25 PM »
Hi everyone, just to let you all know I posted this reply to Super God's post at the other topic.

Luc

Hi Sg, I created the other thread because I found that water explosion could be achieved without a large capacitive discharge and that seems to be very interesting and worth looking at just that. Also please note that S1R has said his system does not use capacitors.  So, in order to not create confusion in this thread since you are using a different approach I started a new topic. At this time my updated circuit (on page one) of the topic I started uses only 1uf or 2uf depending on the inverter output.

Are you sure user jcbx6 at the waterfuel1978 group is saying his Volvo is working on water at this time?

@capacitor70 my congratulations :D to you in demonstrating that it is truly possible to get a ICE to run on water ;)

Keep up this important research :) we will find the way to get this done one way or another.

Luc


Hi Gang,

Remember, a  inverter rectified via a 1/2 wave 110/220 V Peak output pulse has several amps of capacity @ the inverters output per cycle of output.  I'm sure it would work without the cap.......apples and oranges here.  Cap just averages/stores energy and provides more power to the spark during the burst of plasma.  Again, a lamp in series sure would help prevent overcurrent in the inverter from the plasma flow, a medieval current limiter!  A spark coil with a second winding to provide a high current AC 130 V pulse in phase with the HV output would be sort of neat!  But that's another story.

I thought the kick start motorcycle engine in that video was a 2 cycle?????

Ben


gotoluc

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3096
Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #441 on: July 04, 2008, 05:30:31 PM »
I think EV Gray used a circuit almost identical to the one posted, my understanding was that a HV source was used to produce a plasma arc across two conductors, this plasma would then conduct a large 12v current source(batteries) across the conductors. Plasma is a perfect conductor thus the HV arc was used as a means to switch a large current source on and off much like ionization does in radio tubes. Because the HV arc controls the duration time of the large current source the discharge time can be made extremely small. As well there must be two currents flowing in the conducting space, one high voltage/low amps the other low voltage/high amps which is interesting in itself. This small duration high energy impulse between the conductors was said to produce "radiant" effects that EV Gray used to power an electric motor and recharge his batteries. There is the possibility this is a very "natural" process, when we consider lightning we have always thought that the discharge is a high voltage/high current discharge. But maybe the high voltage discharge in lightning is nothing more than a conducting path for the naturally occurring potential gradient (100v/m)found in earths atmosphere--the current source.
Very interesting stuff  ;D

Hi allcanadian, thanks for looking at this topic. I do believe there maybe more that just water explosions done with this circuit and your knowledge and experience would be an asset to the development of this.

At everyone:
I am re-posting the video's that I deleted on youtube 5 days ago since many have asked to see them. The interesting thing is you would think that the spark plug would be hot after this test but it is only about body temperature. The light looks very much like the Sun and is full of UV, just look at the flashes on the wood table the spark plug is on.

Video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPVs_UJ-XRU

Luc

gotoluc

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3096
Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #442 on: July 04, 2008, 06:23:56 PM »
Here is the 2nd video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba_pwxh-czc  Sorry about the quality! I'm working on trying to fix that

To achieve this kind of spark the capacitor is 3.3uf and the voltage to the circuit is about 150 volts. I tried to measure the current but I think none of my meters are giving reliable readings. The meter that worked best was my new analogue - digital and on the 10 amp scale it was showing an average of about 200ma or less.

I used my circuit below and one side of a DPDT relay trigered by a transistor which is switched  by my signal generator.

At everyone, my eyes have somewhat been affected by this but it's not so bad. But please be more cautious than me and get some heavy UV protected Sun glasses if you get to this point.

Added: I'm out for the day to make some money :P so I won't be available till late tonight

Luc

goldenequity

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #443 on: July 04, 2008, 06:35:14 PM »
@ Luc, Ossie and all
In this video presented to the group here,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l54wlbi0Szk

qiman/Aaron is challenging us.
We are continuing to design/modify circuits around a basic premise that we have adopted defacto.

That is, we assume we are piggybacking a HV spark onto a LV spark as a simultaneous event to produce the plasma effect.

He clearly shows the HV spark can be separated (unless I misunderstood) and still produce the plasma effect.

Am I right about this?

gotoluc

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3096
Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #444 on: July 04, 2008, 06:50:32 PM »
@ Luc, Ossie and all
In this video presented to the group here,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l54wlbi0Szk

qiman/Aaron is challenging us.
We are continuing to design/modify circuits around a basic premise that we have adopted defacto.

That is, we assume we are piggybacking a HV spark onto a LV spark as a simultaneous event to produce the plasma effect.

He clearly shows the HV spark can be separated and still produce plasma.

This needs to be thought through..... I agree with Ossie.... there remains much thinking and circuit experimentation to be done.
You never know...... until you find out!

Hi goldenequity, thanks for pointing this out. I'm in a hurry to go to work and will take more time to look at this later. I would like everyone's input of this video demonstration.

Luc

LarryC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 911
Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #445 on: July 04, 2008, 08:13:02 PM »
@ Luc, Ossie and all
In this video presented to the group here,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l54wlbi0Szk

qiman/Aaron is challenging us.
We are continuing to design/modify circuits around a basic premise that we have adopted defacto.

That is, we assume we are piggybacking a HV spark onto a LV spark as a simultaneous event to produce the plasma effect.

He clearly shows the HV spark can be separated (unless I misunderstood) and still produce the plasma effect.

Am I right about this?


His circuit diagram shows that it is using the HV spark from the coil and the capacitors LV at the same time. It does work, did it several times before I finished off my few diodes.

Regards, Larry

goldenequity

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #446 on: July 04, 2008, 08:40:00 PM »
So.... is that spark on spark?
or spark on field?

retrod

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #447 on: July 04, 2008, 09:13:15 PM »
Hi vlpe,

My tests have shown that you need at least 90-100 volts minimum to cause a plasma discharge across the ignition spark in a spark plug set for a standard gap. An inverter raises 12 volts to 110 or 240 volts for this purpose. Many other methods and DC power supplies can be used for this purpose. But considering the relatively cheap price of inverters these days, it is quite convienient to use one. As long as you know what your doing and don't blow it up...

Regards,

Ossie


@Ossie & all. I'm still waiting for my inverter but decided to experiement with my spare Toro lawnmower today. I used the Ossie circuit with 16 diodes in series. In place of the inverter I used my trusty EICO lab bench hv power supply. My cap was rated at 350 volts so I set the supply to about 275. I found out the hard way that the magneto on the Toro puts out negative pulses, not positive like I expected. This was confusing until I verified it with a Simpson 260 meter. 
 The motor running on gasoline acts a bit different with the plasma turned on. I sprayed water into the intake and clamped the fuel hose, the motor did finally come to a stop. I then noticed the power supply was not keeping up with the discharges (in current limit). I posted this so you are all aware that the pulse polarity from an ignition system is not always positive. When my inverter arrives I will at least be aware of how the connections must be made for the negative magneto.
 If you are having any trouble understanding basic ignition/electrical sytems here is a primer written by Toro that is very good and worth a look. www.age.psu.edu/tae/902/Electrical/Electrical%20Systems%20Toro.pdf

RD

gettinwet

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #448 on: July 04, 2008, 09:22:39 PM »
I figure I have lurked long enough. I can not add much at this point since I know nothing of electronics. But when focus is moved to the engines I will be much more suited to participate in discussions. I have a 1967 Pontiac 400 rebuilt sitting on an engine stand awaiting. 


I just watched capacitor70 video. The funny sound you hear that some of you say is distinct to the water engines like this one and S1r's is due to the muffler being removed. Go take the muffler off yer lawnmower and start it up and you'll see what I mean, it's sort of a popping sound.

He says it will only run with the choke on, my guess is that you gotta remember water is heavier than gasoline so it might have a harder time getting sucked up thru the venturi than gasoline. Also when you choke a carb it sucks more fuel in, maybe water needs a richer mixture than gasoine so you'll have to jet the carb bigger. These are things to play with once I get it installed on a motor.

I remember reading in a PDF that S1r used 2 sizes larger carb jets.

LarryC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 911
Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #449 on: July 04, 2008, 09:38:21 PM »
So.... is that spark on spark?
or spark on field?

I don't know what is happing, right now I'm leaning towards the video explanation. I got a big white/blue flash and bang with no water! About the same as I was getting before on the old circuit with water, except it had some orange. Didn't get to try with water before the diodes failed.

Can anyone else try with water?

I was using a 120uf 200V cap.

Regards, Larry