Ossie, I was looking over your latest schematic, the one with the inverter. The top half looks to be the same in function to a standard ignition, let's say for a single cylinder engine with a battery ignition system (like an old garden tractor). The bottom half has the inverter and the few diodes, caps and a coil that might be what's inside s1's 'can' we saw in the video's. What do you think?

RD

Hi retrod,

Correct. The top half of the circuit is simply simulating the ignition system of an ICE including the ignition coil. The bottom half is all that needs to be applied to an ICE if this circuit is to work on an ICE. But please note that I am note claiming that it will. I believe the next step for some of us is to prove IF it will work on and ICE. We have just been engineering the plasma discharge first.

Regards,

Ossie

Hi Group,

Got my parts today.  I am GLAD Luc got moderator privileges to delete 90% of the garbage on this thread, as most threads tend to accumulate.

Koen and others... the purpose of this thread was to establish, develop and improve on A CIRCUIT to create a plasma arc.  All too often (as is the case here, and in most threads) people come in, read the first page and the last page without reading anything else in between, and then take up huge amounts of time (from others) to answer the very questions you are asking, but HAD YOU READ THE THREAD IN THE FIRST PLACE, the answers were already there.

As far as applying it to an ICE... we ALL already KNOW the plasma arc is the critical step and the rest has already been done by two people now (S1R and JCBX)!  Luc, myself, Ossie and a few others have been here from the start of this thread and working toward the goal established by this thread... AGAIN, to come up with a circuit that draws as little energy as possible, and still generate a powerful plasma arc.  Ossie, you have been a huge contributor, and I'd like to personally thank you for all your input.  Luc, you started this thread, and your vision must be commended as well, especially by taking the ORIGINAL position of FOCUSING ON THE CIRCUIT.

Dr. "S" took the words from my mouth with his EXACT comment about "crapsters" posting in here 100% off topic, introducing extraneous topics, and breaking the focus of this thread!  If anyone wants to contribute, please do so, ONLY ON TOPIC, but PLEASE stop posting things that are not DIRECTLY RELATED to our focus!  Personally, I'd rather see this thread have zero postings for days on end (which hopefully means people are actually experimenting) than to have to weed through post after post of Off Topic DRIVEL!   If you want to talk to someone, send them a personal message and keep it off the forum.  THIS IS NOT A CHATROOM!

If someone wishes to be part of the team effort here, then at least do some minimal research (even if its only to ACTUALLY read this ENTIRE thread) where much of the questions many are asking has already been answered.  DO A LITTLE WORK YOURSELF, EVEN IF ITS ONLY TO READ!  I am trying to avoid using this term, but I can't find one that doesn't sum it up completely... STOP BEING SO  LAZY!

If you don't have anything to add to the thread and the focus of this thread, kindly monitor it and read along, and learn, but PLEASE STOP POSTING OFF TOPIC. 

Nuff said! 

BACK ON TOPIC - My group is using the circuit posted by Ossie with the 10 - 1N4007 diodes and the 16 - 1N5404's, but with a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter.  We will then use the latest Ossie circuit with the car relay in it.  From there, my team will apply it to an ICE (1974 Chevy Blazer with 350 engine and 4 barrel carb, just like S1R's El Camino). 

WHEN all this works, hopefully we can devise a simple circuit to eliminate the inverter, as it seems to be too bulky (but a great tool for initial experimentation).  With improved circuit designs to reduce energy input, a big inverter is probably overkill, since right now, Ossie's last circuit is only drawing 60 watts. 

Our thought is to use a toroidal coil to supply the main power, and use a coil (plus other components)for each cylinder's plasma arc.  This should eliminate the need for an inverter, reduce overall size of the circuitry to make it easier to fit under the hood, and attempt to make it a "plug and play" module that can be used on ANY engine.

I will keep everyone informed of my group's progress, video record things as we go along and post them!  FOCUS is the key here to reduce input energy and have a high energy plasma output!

Regards,
Geo

I got info from a big company who does this for Plus Detonation to make oxy-hydrogen. he said they use plused plasma, and that I won't find out what they use to catalyse it. I don't know if they made to gas to send it to the jet engine, or inside the engine. I said KOH, he didn't confirm or deny it. But KOH would probably also split up in the plasma, and be used as a fuel too. I was wondering if charging the water in a Hydrogen generator would help, it would add energy to it. H2 and O2 mixed in the water..

Hi gang,

Simple Glow R/C model engine modified with small shop tools to make a possible working engine of the type discussed on this list.  Here is the progress (just disassembly for now with a lot of thought) and a short discussion on what you must do to make a "simple" plasma/spark engine work using an engine of this type. 

I am simply trying to make a proof of concept engine from what I have available.  I don't have a car I can modify, I don't have a lawnmower I can modify, I do have a small 25 cc weed whacker engine I could modify but don't really have the room.  I live in a condo, my workshop is a 2 X 4 closet (worlds smallest lab) so I do with what I have.

I won't go into the electronics portion of what we need as that has been beaten to death and being a retired R&D and industrial electronic tec. the electronics is a non issue to me.....There are so many ways to make it work, that it basically boils down to how you want to do it. 

Mechanically you have to understand what is required and go from there.  You also have to understand what you are working with when you use a 2 cycle model motor.  Read up at any number of places on the net how one of these motors work and then stop and think what you will have to do to use it in this application.

To make a operating engine of this size, you must have a low friction embodiment of a IC engine.  When you have less than 1 cubic inch displacement, things have to be free AND lubricated. 

You have to have a reliable way to deliver an atomized mist to a spark plug.

You have to have an accurate exaust valve system to adjust the timing on the engine.

So what it all boils down to is you need a well lubricated pump, with water injection a spark plug and a timing valve!.

This is what I am doing.  Engine used is a FOX 78 R/C engine, to be modified this way.

1.  Carburetor which is a very nice close tolerance rotary valve throttle body injection device is removed from the intake at the front of the engine and will be used as an misting injector/rotary valve timing device.

2.  Intake will be blocked.

3.  Crankcase will be ventilated with discrete porting to remove positive/negative pressure as piston goes up and down.  The bottom of the crankcase becomes a zero pressure device and is filled partially with a light oil to keep the main bearings and connecting rod bearings lubricated.  Essentially a splash lubrication engine like a multitude of small lawn mower engines.

3a.  A moderate 6" flywheel will be mounted on the crankshaft where a propeller would normally be.

4.  Piston rings are removed to remove friction and piston is used and stands on its own close tolerance.

5.  Glow plug removed from and hole filled in with JB weld slow dry.

6. Carb unit is drilled and tapped to receive a 1/4 X 32 model spark plug UNDER the atomizing main jet.

7.  Head is machined on top to receive the throttle unit and it essentially becomes a throttle body/injector/valve unit.

8. Operation of the top end of the engine is as follows:   The throttle body will be open about 300 degrees of time during 1 rotation so as the piston comes up, there is very little pressure in the top end of the engine at this point.  After TDC, the piston will suck air in the venturi, over the needle valve assembly, drawing a mist into the engine and on the spark plug immediately under the needle valve.  @ about 35 degrees, give or take after TDC on the down stroke, the throttle body rotary valve will be snapped closed via a cam or a solenoid.  (remember this is just a proof of concept) the plug will fire, piston will continue downward and bottom porting as built into the engine will open and pressure be vented.  Throttle body will open, and remain open until the next downward movement of piston. Ruff guess, rotary valve will be closed ONLY during power pulse, probably about 40-60 degrees.   I don't know yet if I will operate it as a two cycle with power pulse every stoke or 4 cycle, every other downward stroke, time will tell on that.  Top lube will be by intermittent light oiling of throttle body assembly, there will also be blow by of mist out of the throttle body during the up stroke but as it is only water!!!! who cares and it will also provide lubrication to the rotary valve......

This engine is not designed to run for hundreds of hours or at high RPM. 60 to 100 rpm will be just fine! I just want it to run.  Thats all for now.  Tomorrow, the 4th here in the USA, we have a big party and celebrate our "Independence" so will get serious over the weekend, still waiting for spark plugs to come in the mail.

Pictures here as to what I am working with.

I just remembered, S1R said something in a post a long time ago about using a seperate battery for the inverter. Maybe this is my problem, I need to isolate it. When I blew both of those inverters it was like it was feeding the 110 back into the inverter on the 12volt side. I have no trouble at all with using mains power and a rectifier, well not until today. I hooked up the primary side of the IC to a distributor I had laying around and was gonna use that to pulse it but when I hooked up the 110 to the circuit all hell broke loose. It blew up my rectifier and kicked the breaker. The distributor was laying on a metal table but the rest of the circuit was insulated. I guess it fed back thru the drill press that was on the same table somehow. This is why I'd like to know exactly how this circuit works, I mean the flow path of the electricity.

I could be wrong,but i thought he said he only used to batteries because when cranking starter it tended to kick out inverter due to starter drawing amps.

I just remembered, S1R said something in a post a long time ago about using a seperate battery for the inverter. Maybe this is my problem, I need to isolate it. When I blew both of those inverters it was like it was feeding the 110 back into the inverter on the 12volt side. I have no trouble at all with using mains power and a rectifier, well not until today. I hooked up the primary side of the IC to a distributor I had laying around and was gonna use that to pulse it but when I hooked up the 110 to the circuit all hell broke loose. It blew up my rectifier and kicked the breaker. The distributor was laying on a metal table but the rest of the circuit was insulated. I guess it fed back thru the drill press that was on the same table somehow. This is why I'd like to know exactly how this circuit works, I mean the flow path of the electricity.

It  could be that    your   inverter  was  grounded somehow

If you  remember   S1r    made a point  of  explaining that the   inverter and I believe the  relay box had  to be insulated .... the only  point that the  inverter circuit  connect with  any other  circuit is  at the spark plug .

gary 
 

Blew up another inverter! Soon as I turned it on. Also tried a different ignition coil and still have to reverse the polarity on it to get a HV arc. I'm lost. It doesn't help that I don't understand exactly how the circuit works or that I don't really understand electronics that much so until somebody comes up with a fool proof circuit I give up!

Hi bumfuzzled and all,

I understand that many may be eager to attempt to start building these circuits to test them but I must stress that unless you understand how they operate, as well as have some experience in building and testing electronic circuits, it is likely to be an expensive and possibly also dangerous excercise for you. So please understand what you are building and how it works before you proceed as there are many traps for the inexperienced.

One these traps that is most likely the cause of people blowing up their all solid state inverters is that the HV pulse from an ignition coil can be either positive or negative. In all of my circuits, the ignition coil pulse is always positive. But in practise, it can be either.

To accommodate this you will need to make sure your inverter's input and output is isolated fully from the ignition coil circuit. There must not be any common ground connections. You must then test the polarity of you ignition coil's output pulse by using a long string of LV diodes or some HV microwave oven diodes, preferable 3 or four in series, to prove if the HV pulse coming out of your ignition coil is negative or positive. Once you have proved this, then when you connect the output of the diode string from you inverter circuit, you will connect it to the spark plug positive if your ignition coil pulse is positive or to the spark plug ground, if your ignition coil pulse is negative.

Regards,

Ossie