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Author Topic: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE  (Read 1405642 times)

callanan

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #375 on: July 03, 2008, 04:37:52 PM »
Hi All,

Please see my latest video here:

http://www.youtube.com/m1a9r9s9

Whilst further endevouring to increase the efficiency of the capacitor discharge circuit, tests revealed that a great deal of energy is wasted whilst the plasma is on because the power supply is still connected and as such is also powering the plasma even after the capacitor discharge is complete. This causes a great deal of wasted energy in heat and the requirement for a loading resistor in series with the power supply which also wastes energy in the form of heat.

Further analysis revealed that there was a requirement to disconnect the power supply whilst the capacitor discharged into the plasma so as not to waste energy. Forgoing a complex HV switching circuit, I found that an inductor could assist in holding the wasted energy from the power supply whilst the capacitor is discharging into the plasma and then when the plasma switches off, the back emf of the inductor will dump it's stored energy into the capacitor ready for the next discharge and so the power supply energy is not wasted but used. Please see the circuit diagram below.

As you can see in the video, this circuit is not only very simple but it is very efficient in getting most of the input energy to the plasma discharge. The plasma is so bright that it is like a welding arc but WITHOUT the heat when water is used, or else the spark plug does get warm but not hot if left dry. I have used this circuit continuously at pulse rates from 20 to 100 Hz with no problems and very little heat in any components.

At higher pulse rates it is difficult getting enough water into the plasma but if you manage to, it will shoot out like a jet engine flame with an equivalently loud noise as well. The light is so bright that I recomend dark glasses whilst testing this circuit and the noise is so loud, whilst pumping water into it continuously from high pulse rate explosions, that I also recommend ear plugs as my ears are still ringing...

At pulse rates from 20-70 Hz the input current at 12 volts to the inverter was between 2.5 and 5 amps. For the inductor I simply used a 12V standard car relay coil.

In my opinion I believe that this circuit so far will perform the best on a real engine. So I think I am ready for this step next.

Regards,

Ossie

resonanceman

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #376 on: July 03, 2008, 04:39:59 PM »
I just thought I would make one more comment   before I  leave for a while .


I  saw someone  commented about  wearing   sunglasses or something  when looking at the arc .

I would say that  most sunglasses  don't  have enough   UV protection to do alot of good .
Weldinng goggles  or something  similar  should be used  if you  spend any amount of  time looking at the arc .

The  pain   you feel in your eyes  after  looking at  ANY arc  for a  little while is     from something  like   sunburn on  your retina  .   And yes the damage can be permenent .                 Dark  sunglasses  may or may not  have UV protection .
If they don't have UV protection    they will cause your pupels to dilate more ........causing   your retina to  burn even faster .

gary

Koen1

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #377 on: July 03, 2008, 04:51:48 PM »
Koen

That is  exactly what  we are working on here .

gary
Oh? Well I understand that is the goal, but most of what I've seen
posted here recently has zero to do with an engine and everything
to do with a circuit that produces a plasma which can ignite water aerosol...
And so I got the impression that what was happening here did not
really include the engine conversion part of the plan yet...
... but perhaps I overlooked something... ;)

Oh, and on a sidenote I don't think anyone nowadays has sunglasses
without UV filter of some sort... But you welding goggles suggestion
may be a good one. :)

ramset

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #378 on: July 03, 2008, 04:55:18 PM »
ALL dont look into the light #11 shield at least or turn and watch the shadow  you are welding here  Chet

callanan

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #379 on: July 03, 2008, 05:08:25 PM »
ALL dont look into the light #11 shield at least or turn and watch the shadow  you are welding here  Chet

Hi ramset,

Good advise. We certainly have a continuous arc that is very bright like an arc welder. But instead of producing such a bright arc with 1000-2000 watts input as in an arc welder. I am now doing it with just 60 watts input... Such is the difference when there no or very little heat output, unlike an arc welder...

Regards,

Ossie

livingwaters08

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #380 on: July 03, 2008, 05:18:55 PM »

Nightlife

Are you sure it is 110 V  ?

As far as I know an oil  furnice  coil is  just a transformer .......it is very similar to  a neon  sign  transformer . 

Nightlife, resonanceman, and group,

Let's remember s1's description of the 3 coil setup in his recent post on Waterfuel1978.  He describes the coil in great detail.
Here's his post:

Re: New video 2


There are three windings on the coil, one main winding, one on each
side with deferent number of windings in each, the two windings on
each side are wound through the main winding , as 1 being a winding
and 2 being a winding and 0 being the main winding, it will look
like this 1-0-1_2-0-2. the windings are not touching each other but
they are wound through the main (0) winding, this replaces the double
coil set in the relay system. I will post the number of turns on each
winding as soon as I have all the info put together. None of the
windings have the same number of turns so the harmonics deffer when
current passes through them. This also is helping to block the 110v
from the 12v. This coil does not replace the HV coil on the vehicle.

S1R.

From this description....Is this a Tesla Coil?    Hope this helps to perfect the circuit.

Livigwaters08


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I  just went back and watched the  videos  again
I didn't   try to  trace the wires

I did notice  something I missed before
The  first time I watched video1   I noticed  that the first thing you see   is a close up  of the  place to connect  the  place to connect the  fuel line  ......... I had thought  that  he  was connecting  the  hose  there .

In  the  2nd  video he removes the   float bowl .......and  holds it in  front of the camera for a second . 

I didn't  realise before that he was just   running water  into the intake .
He  is clearly  " flooding " the engine
I am pretty  sure that you  won't  get ANY  gas engine  to run that  steady by  doing that  that  .      IF you can get it to run that way at all .

The gas air  mixture has to be  fairly close  .......... with this process I think   all you really need  enough  water .
I  am thinking   that the times   in  video 1 where he  rotated  the  engine  by had was  to clear partial hydro lock

Now I am  thinking that the way  to  control  the  engine power is to vary   the  low voltage .


gary

stu

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #381 on: July 03, 2008, 06:09:24 PM »
Hi Ossie,

I'm a non electronics person who has been keeping an eye on the watercar1978 forum for 2 years now, and of late this forum,and I am gathering parts to build the 9v batt circuit supplied earlier - once this is done and the circuit understood (by myself!) then the next stage would be to convert that circuit to this latest one that you have just posted.

As the Siggen is just being used to replicate the high speed firing of the ICE, is it a simple matter to replace that whole aspect of the circuitry with the pos & neg from the strobe being wired directly to the pos & neg of the coil and then the inverter circuit tied in to the neg of the coil and the coil output just as it is in the latest diagram?

I just want to try and prove my replication in stages and attempt to understand some electronic basics while I go.

Many thanks - Stu (from Northern Ireland)

retrod

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #382 on: July 03, 2008, 06:10:10 PM »
Hi ramset,

Good advise. We certainly have a continuous arc that is very bright like an arc welder. But instead of producing such a bright arc with 1000-2000 watts input as in an arc welder. I am now doing it with just 60 watts input... Such is the difference when there no or very little heat output, unlike an arc welder...

Regards,

Ossie
Ossie, I was looking over your latest schematic, the one with the inverter. The top half looks to be the same in function to a standard ignition, let's say for a single cylinder engine with a battery ignition system (like an old garden tractor). The bottom half has the inverter and the few diodes, caps and a coil that might be what's inside s1's 'can' we saw in the video's. What do you think?

RD

sigmaX

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #383 on: July 03, 2008, 07:32:31 PM »
My Two cents:

If you video record your testings and the resulting sparks with a camera and notice that although you can personally see the plug to spark continuously, the video  afterwards shows that sometimes there is no spark, it is just that the video cameras are not "continuous recording capable": They take 25 or 30 "pictures" per second. It just happens that in the moment of SOME of those pictures, there is no "spark" going on. Which shows also that the spark life is very little (definitely less than 1/25 or 1/30th of second).

You might use slow motion cameras (or some of the new digital cameras) that shoot 60 or more frames per second, if you want to register it correctly, or synchronize the sparking to the camera shutter (this last paragraph is theoretical, as I am sure it is not necessary, we believe anyway, if you say, that the spark is there ;) )

Regards,

Enrique (sigmaX)

resonanceman

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #384 on: July 03, 2008, 07:57:10 PM »
Oh? Well I understand that is the goal, but most of what I've seen
posted here recently has zero to do with an engine and everything
to do with a circuit that produces a plasma which can ignite water aerosol...
And so I got the impression that what was happening here did not
really include the engine conversion part of the plan yet...
... but perhaps I overlooked something... ;)

Oh, and on a sidenote I don't think anyone nowadays has sunglasses
without UV filter of some sort... But you welding goggles suggestion
may be a good one. :)

Koen

You  didn't miss anything .

It  would be nice to jump to the end of the game and have   finished  water powered engines  running  our cars and  powering our  homes ......   We ain't there yet .  ........  We are  still working on   understanding   the   arc and how  best to make it  .
It  just doesn't make sense to   try  step  3 and 4 when  you   still have a bunch to learn about step 1

gary

vlpe

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??
« Reply #385 on: July 03, 2008, 09:11:51 PM »
HI all

why use inverter if the current is being rectified just after the inverter??

goldenequity

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #386 on: July 03, 2008, 09:15:02 PM »
@ everyone
I did in fact burn my retina from welding arc (still remember the pain!).... If you should happen to get careless and experience some piercing pain in the eyeballs, this works to ease the pain (fairly quickly)... take a raw potato and shred it as a poultice ... lay back in a darkened room close your eyes and put a handful over both eyes.  (Like putting raw hash browns over your eyes).  It works.

billd

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #387 on: July 04, 2008, 01:16:12 AM »
Hello everyone,

   I have been reading your posts and I think you are going in the right direction.  I spent too much time building HHO generators and now believe plasma initiated water has the only hope of really working.
   More to the point of this thread,  the two sources of voltage need to function and be protected form each other since they sum at the spark plug.  The high voltage spike from the spark coil (SC) or magneto could damage the inverter and rectifier (IR) and unwanted current flow from the IR through the SC secondary or magneto could damage the SC or magneto and or burnout the IR itself.
    To protect the SC secondary & IR from over current without using diodes,  I propose a second spark gap between the SC top and the spark plug, a function supplied by the distributer, rotor and cap of older ICEs.  The IR current should not flow through the SC secondary ever but should only flow through the spark plug gap and for a few milliseconds after the SC initiating spark (controlling duration is a future issue) .   
   To protect the IR without high PIV diodes I propose a 3 element low pass filter (LPF).  A  isolation transformer is a form of LPF and would help protect an inverter but won't protect the bridge rectifier.  A single capacitor (one element LPF)  may protect the IR but could shunt the HV pulse.  But a series  inductor, shunt capacitor, series inductor (properly done) LPF would protect the IR without shunting the HV pulse.  A  LPF will also smooth the output of the IR.   . 
    Diodes can be used but I think you will find that commercial solid state is no match for the harsh ?under the hood? environment of a automobile.
   I have also been reading several S1r replicator posts and and for the what its worth file, some folks believe a hot engine is a necessity before fueling with water.
If I'm completly wrong about these proposals just disregard.
Billd

callanan

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #388 on: July 04, 2008, 02:02:18 AM »
Hi Ossie,

I'm a non electronics person who has been keeping an eye on the watercar1978 forum for 2 years now, and of late this forum,and I am gathering parts to build the 9v batt circuit supplied earlier - once this is done and the circuit understood (by myself!) then the next stage would be to convert that circuit to this latest one that you have just posted.

As the Siggen is just being used to replicate the high speed firing of the ICE, is it a simple matter to replace that whole aspect of the circuitry with the pos & neg from the strobe being wired directly to the pos & neg of the coil and then the inverter circuit tied in to the neg of the coil and the coil output just as it is in the latest diagram?

I just want to try and prove my replication in stages and attempt to understand some electronic basics while I go.

Many thanks - Stu (from Northern Ireland)

Hi stu,

It is a good idea to build the simple strobe device and see and understand how it work. With the other circuit, the sig gen is simply to replicate an ICE firing the ignition coil. But if you are considering trying the strobe circuit on an ICE, it will not serve your purpose as it is only capable of charging it's capacitor up about once every second. It is only being powered by a 9V battery after all. The strobe device is simply a demonstration device to shown how easy it is to explode water with little input power.

Regards,

Ossie



xbox hacker

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Re: URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #389 on: July 04, 2008, 02:03:31 AM »
UPDATE:

So, i got bored with bench tests, i have tried many design and they all worked great! Bright plasma flame and a loud snap.  ;D ;D

I wanted to move on to the next logical step. So i got out the BS 13 hp mower. I took the plug wire on the engine and used it in place of my bench test automotive coil (same theory) NOTHING WORKED!!!! As it seems, every time the DC is hooked up to the top of the plug, i get NO arc of any kind!! Without the DC hooked up i get a normal ignition arc. I have even went as far as to make a voltage doubler to go from 110VDC to almost 290vdc. STILL NOTHING!! Every design gave the same results...NADA!

I also installed a ammeter between the inverter and the battery. When i try the setups on the mower the meter does not even move at all when the motor is turning over.

 :-\ I am so lost now...  :-\