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Author Topic: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !  (Read 60574 times)

Offline rlortie

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2008, 07:50:04 PM »
NOTE: This is an edited  copy-paste from a post I just put on BesslerWheel.com    Thought some here may enjoy it.

My opinion for what it is worth!  Ignore this post if you are not interested in some opinionated trivia regarding WM2D

I am not  user of WM2D nor do I have a sheepskin in computer simulation applications. I have in the past downloaded the free demo, toyed with the sample simulations provided. I then dumped it to free up the drive space it occupied.

The number of discrepancy reports that are posted on this forum and others is influencing  me to believe that WM2D may have its advantages in numerous mechanical designs, but usage for the search for O-U using  gravity  is not one of them.

The trivial part of my 2 cents is in the form of  questions.  If WM2D will show such a high percentage of things running that should not, how can it be relied on for positive answers?

This runs but it should not ^ This does not run but it should. Does this balance?

 How many designs have been discarded that WM2D showed negative when a real build may have shown positive? If it can foul up in one respect, how can you trust it in the other?

There is that old "adage"   What is good for the goose is good for the gander, or as the Chinese would say; the Yin and the Yang of it all.

Ralph         

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Dgraphic911

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2008, 08:09:35 PM »
Alen,  stefan wheres the video. I have been really looking forward to alens build. I love the chaos pendulum and was really hoping to see its movement.


Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2008, 09:24:42 PM »
G'day Ralph,

I agree with you that OU will never be found with a simulation programme. These types of programmes use the laws of physics as we know them. As such they obey fully Newton's laws as well as conservation of energy.

If OU depends on a yet to be discovered discrepancy in these laws, or on some sort of yet to be discovered or recognised energy (such as Orgone, for instance) then a programme of this nature cannot possibly help because of it's inbuilt restraints.

Yet, strangely enough Bessler said that his wheel does not violate any laws of physics. (He was aware of Newton) So maybe a wheel can be built this way.

Where WM2D shines is in simple structures, where it is remarkably accurate, and in its ability to show very quickly what happens if parameters, like the relationships between the weights, are changed. What would otherwise take many hours to find out, if you did the same on an actual model, can be done in a few minutes in WM2D.

This opens up to the experimenter a cheap and quick avenue of testing an idea in many of its iterations. As anyone who has ever played with systems such as Bessler wheels will tell you, it is extremely difficult to see the centre of mass in an arrangement of weights and determine the direction of movement or equilibrium. I used to cut out a cardboard disk and stick coins in the relevant places and pin it on a wall to see if there is movement. Many experimenters have spent hundreds of hours building models that did not work when a simple test of this nature would have quickly shown the shortcomings of the arrangement. I have commented on this here in the forum on several occasions.

The facility of quick and easy determination of centre of mass alone is worth the programme. As long as the designs are not too complex or have too many components the programme works fine.

I have said it before: There is no substitute for building!

Having said that, I remember an old engineer on my first job after graduating telling me over and over: If you have to make a mistake, make it on paper and in a model, never on the job, it gets too expensive. He then showed me his Meccano set, that he kept well out of sight for fear of ridicule, with which he tested new ideas. This is where I see WM2D fitting in, between the paper and the Meccano set.

Hans von Lieven


Offline loop888

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2008, 09:32:50 PM »
congratz on your WM wheel Stefan, seems pretty crazy, like me waiting to see the video of the real model  :D


Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2008, 02:44:02 AM »
G'day all,

Just for a laugh have a look at this Bessler solution. I have translated it from the German and put it on my website. This wheel needs an offering of your bathwater.  ???

http://keelytech.com/besslerdoppelrad.html

Hans von Lieven

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2008, 02:44:02 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline niente

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2008, 09:49:28 AM »
Don't trust Working Model 2D:

here's a self-accelerating WM2D model:

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/download.php?id=2570

Reference thread: http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1156

 ;D ;D ;D

Offline broli

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2008, 11:37:56 PM »
@Hans;

Your MT20 build gives me a weird feeling. I have been playing around with the mass of the weights and what not and it's acting "weird". Basiclly my common sense tells me it should keep on spinning whereas wm2d slows it down. How can something from rest go that far and fast, but after gaining momentum it just slows down...it just doesn't make any sense to me.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2008, 11:37:56 PM »
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Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2008, 11:53:53 PM »
G'day Broli,

The same thing happens in the flapwheel design. The actual position where it stops is more favourable to rotation than the starting position. Something wrong there, but what?

Hans von Lieven

Offline broli

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2008, 12:00:49 AM »
Yes I believe I see what is wrong now, the inner weight should retract sooner. In the starting phase the south one is already against the frame...while in operation it rests on the frame way to late causing it to halt. I don't know how you guys can get your setups to run so fast and stable. I just added a small thing to your setup and BOOM, it got really slow and unstable. I must have the deadly wm2d touch.

But here's a screen to show what I was going for...

(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x12/broli123/hansmt20.jpg)


Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2008, 12:13:56 AM »
Don't trust Working Model 2D:

here's a self-accelerating WM2D model:

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/download.php?id=2570

Reference thread: http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1156

 ;D ;D ;D

@niente

The simulation is invalid. Whoever did this put an illegal value in the field that specifies the mass of the polygon. Change it to 1.0 kg and it will behave as expected. See screenhot below. The programme should have rejected the value entered, but that is an editing problem not a real fault in the simulation.

Hans von Lieven

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2008, 12:13:56 AM »
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Offline eavogels

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2008, 10:10:07 AM »
@hartiberlin

LOL I like it. It is a chaos pendulum, I would be honored to build you a real one and video it and send it to you to post. I have everything I need to do it and it won't take 15 minutes to do. Just give me the go ahead and it will be done.

Hi Alan.
What material ways 100 KG in such a small ball-shape?
/Eric

Offline fletcher

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2008, 10:23:46 AM »
depleted uranium [twice the mass of lead] alloyed with unobtainuim - very popular in military cliques  ::)


Offline exnihiloest

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2008, 11:08:22 AM »
...
@exnihiloest,
...
Please also post your selfrunning WM2D files,
so we can all compare them and maybe put them
together and combine them to really get something going.

Many thanks.

Sorry Stefan I can't. I put my models to the trash after playing them and seeing they were out of interest for me to simulate reality. I didn't attach importance to them as I considered they were software bugs.
There was 2 or 3 pendulums with stochastic movements. I built them from an initial model some one else posted on a forum (after 1 or 2 years, I don't remember if it was here).
My selfrunning models were much simpler than this given by
erickdt (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4724.msg98265.html#msg98265).








Offline AB Hammer

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2008, 02:47:27 PM »
@eavogels

 LOL they where no where near 100kg or 220 lbs. More like 1 1/2 lbs but they where equal size. In the simulation I don't think the weight of the arm between them was taken into consideration. But I don't think it would not have mattered anyway. The weight on the test wheel when spun by hand rocked the stand so I had to add weights to the bottom of the stand, which showed a very unstable effect but a strong one hit action of Chaos. Any thing that would shake like that would if it could run would shake apart in a short time.


Offline eavogels

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2008, 05:04:08 PM »
The weight are:
The upper weight has 100 Kg
the lower weight has 101 kg !
see Stephan's first post.

I have Stephan's wm2d sim running for a longer time and I can see that it is not perpetual. Right now the wheel is bumping back and forward between 1 o'clock and 5, allthough still moving. Back to the drawing table I guess...
Eric.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2008, 05:04:08 PM »

 

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