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Author Topic: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !  (Read 63503 times)

Offline hartiberlin

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I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« on: May 20, 2008, 02:36:06 AM »
Hi All,
almost falling asleep at my PC I finally changed a few settings
with a rod only version and only 2 weights and suddenly I came up
with an endless rotating wheel !
Which also speeds up from time to time.

It uses the centrifugal forces.

It is very easy to setup.
A disc with 200Kg weight, being 2.54 Meters in diameter,
the 2 weights hang each at 1.20 Meter from the axis.
The upper weight has 100 Kg
the lower weight has 101 kg !
the upper rod is 0.600 Meters long
the lowerrod is 0.601 Meters long
The connection rod between the 2 weights is 3.056 Meters long.

It never stops, although I did set air resistance already very strong and
also enabled the friction model.

I will also now post amovie of it  in the next message.
Here is the WM2D file:

http://www.overunity.com/bessler

Enjoy !

Regards, Stefan.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2008, 03:12:08 AM by hartiberlin »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2008, 02:45:00 AM »
very cool!

but the link for the wm2d file is not working.
please repost or edit your post. thanks!

thanks for sharing, keep it open source!


peace


Offline AB Hammer

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2008, 03:10:41 AM »
@hartiberlin

 Good work, but I have no simulation software to see it. I am a video and hands on type of guy.

If it can be a solid reality, I see this year being very interesting, with what others coming out. ;D

the picture reminds me of a Chaos pendulum with a round disk.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2008, 03:14:27 AM »
Hi,
sorry, I corrected the link above.

Here is also now the Movie of it:

http://overunity.com/bessler/bessler_harti_working_01.avi

It is 5 Mbytes big, DIVX.com codec encoded.

I still have to see, if I will still even find better parameters to get the big disc better into sync.

Regards, Stefan.


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2008, 03:21:58 AM »
Well,
the long 3.056 Meter connection rod is designed
this way, that one weight is always 90 degrees out of phase to the other weight...

Well, it is hard to explain, but I saw, that tilted pendulums have a reduced
weight force, as you can see in the Milkovic example.
When the weight is at 90 degrees its weight directly down is almost zero.
So I made the rod this long, that one weight is at 90 degrees out of the wheel
and the other directly vertically down in the start position.

Then somehow I did set the bottom weight wrong instead
of 100 Kg to 101 kg and voila, it was working !

It seems it needs this kind of 1Kg asymmetry !

With both weights having exactly 100 Kg
the wheel will turn a while and then change revolution
direction...


I still have to test this with other friction settings inside the
WM2D program and hope, that it is not just a program artifact.

But I guess it is a step into the right direction.

Today is a good day !
First we had the graphite rod overunity confirmations and
now this Bessler wheel.

Now I can go to sleep very satisfied for the day and
have a happy feeling. ;)

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2008, 03:21:58 AM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2008, 03:29:30 AM »
@hartiberlin

LOL I like it. It is a chaos pendulum, I would be honored to build you a real one and video it and send it to you to post. I have everything I need to do it and it won't take 15 minutes to do. Just give me the go ahead and it will be done.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2008, 03:49:43 AM »
Sure ABHammer,
go ahead and build it.
The more people will try it the better.

Yes, in this moment it looks pretty much like a chaoswheel,
but I hope that I can sync still the wheel rotation better to the
weights movements.

I just say,that it needs the high air resistance ( friction)
inside WM2D set to 0.300 kg/m^2.
This is the standard setting value for the high air resistance there.

If I set the air friction to low speed:
0.300 kg/m-s
it still spins endlessly, but changes its direction from time to time.

So the big wheel seems to need some outout load ( here the air rsistance)
to sync correctly to the 2 jumping and flying weights...

Well, I guess this is it for me for tonight.

Have a good night and dream about perpetual motion ! ;D
Now it has come true...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2008, 03:49:43 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2008, 04:40:02 AM »
Hmm,
now  after about 25000 frames of the animation,
that wheel begins to slow down and keels..
Well........, but this concept still has very much merit.

The wheel has produced probably way lot more energy than put into
it by then already..although the weights are pretty heavy with around 100 Kg.
Have to check, if it also runs with lower weights in the same ratio,

As it uses the centrifugal forces, this is something new
to all the MT drawings,which only use
weight forces and which in my view can?t work.
Only via converting the excessive centrifugal forcesI think
something can be achieved.

Now finally to bed...
Regards, Stefan.

Offline fletcher

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2008, 05:10:14 AM »
Stefan .. I would check your pin placements - seems one is not exactly opposite the other [where the small rods connect to the main wheel] - logic says this should be chaotic motion until the weights both hang at rest below the axle height - the test would be to start the sim in this position first off [position of least PE] - otherwise the chaotic swinging is steadily loosing Potential Height & therefore PE & this is what is driving it - like a weight clock running down, IMO - sry :7(

Offline rlortie

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2008, 05:43:18 AM »
Stefan .. I would check your pin placements - seems one is not exactly opposite the other [where the small rods connect to the main wheel] - logic says this should be chaotic motion until the weights both hang at rest below the axle height - the test would be to start the sim in this position first off [position of least PE] - otherwise the chaotic swinging is steadily loosing Potential Height & therefore PE & this is what is driving it - like a weight clock running down, IMO - sry :7(

Fletcher and Stefan,

I agree as usual, I slowed it down and attempted a frame by frame analysis. There is definitely  a point where the weights hang at rest in a keel position, yet there is chaotic motion noticeable in the descending side where the weight for some unknown reason changes direction in the middle of an outward swinging  descent mode. The velocity combination of the wheel and lever combined  with the extended radius  would negate any such change of motion, I would think!

Ralph 

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2008, 05:43:18 AM »
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Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2008, 06:57:53 AM »
G'day all,

I have also a wheel that works in WM2D, I don't trust it. After a while some of my weights do bunny hops.That is why I warned against the programme the other day.

The wheel below is the one.

Hans von Lieven

Edit: The first one was not a good screenshot as it shows the wheel as drawn. This one is in action.

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2008, 07:06:29 AM »
G'day all,

I have also a wheel that works in WM2D, I don't trust it. After a while some of my weights do bunny hops.That is why I warned against the programme the other day.

The wheel below is the one.

Hans von Lieven

Edit: The first one was not a good screenshot as it shows the wheel as drawn. This one is in action.

post the wm2d file please. also if you can post an animation using a gif movie or something like that.


peace


Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2008, 07:30:00 AM »
Fletcher and Stefan,

I agree as usual, I slowed it down and attempted a frame by frame analysis. There is definitely  a point where the weights hang at rest in a keel position, yet there is chaotic motion noticeable in the descending side where the weight for some unknown reason changes direction in the middle of an outward swinging  descent mode. The velocity combination of the wheel and lever combined  with the extended radius  would negate any such change of motion, I would think!

Ralph 

G'day Ralph,

This is exactly the kind of thing I keep running into. Some reversals just don't make sense. I have gone to the trouble of stopping the programme and print the page out. Then, with ruler and compass, the old fashioned way, I checked and there is no way what happens on the screen can happen in the workshop.

Still, it gets you to think. I guess that's something. :-)

Hans von Lieven

Offline exnihiloest

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2008, 11:15:39 AM »
Sure ABHammer,
go ahead and build it.
The more people will try it the better.
...

Hi Stefan

I'm afraid building will be disappointing. I have also plaid with wmd pendulum models and got several kind of setups with perpetual motions.
As you did, I have also added losses such as air resistance and nevertheless the motion never ended. I also reduced the calculus step and got same results.
As wmd uses conventional physics to compute the movements, and the equations of conventional physics from the forces or from the lagrangian can't lead to extra energy, we can't expect to model a real perpetual motion with such tools. All these effects are artefacts.

Either we are expecting extra energy from hidden sources obeying to conventional physics laws and thus we have to include them in simulations in order to be able to get significant results, or we are expecting extra energy because conventional physics is wrong and thus we can't use its tools.

Fran?ois






Offline hartiberlin

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Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2008, 01:21:43 PM »
Hi Hans,
looks nice,
can you please post your WM2D file also,
so I could have a look ?

@exnihiloest,
I agree, but I have been looking for a device,that is able to lift
the CoG over the axis for most of the time and that is, what my wheel
still did,at least for the first 10.000 simulation steps or so.

Please also post your selfrunning WM2D files,
so we can all compare them and maybe put them
together and combine them to really get something going.

Many thanks.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: I have a working Bessler wheel in my simulation !
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2008, 01:21:43 PM »

 

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