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Author Topic: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex  (Read 121722 times)

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #75 on: May 16, 2008, 01:28:59 PM »
Perpetual Motion Wheel Mechanism

as the two long wooden poles move up every time a weight drops, the poles have to slightly shift from right to left as one part of the lever (top left of wheel) makes a circular motion...
http://i26.tinypic.com/1y8kzs.jpg

There is alot of force in this wheel as the top and bottom weights fall it puts alot of enrergy out into lifting the weights poles, therefore a lighter weight may I lift a heavier weight, unless I have calculated this wrongly which is possilbe, I have lifted 2 pences with 1 pences using this though and I slighty raise an 8 ounce with a 4 ounce but it was hardly lifted at all

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #75 on: May 16, 2008, 01:28:59 PM »

Offline broli

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #76 on: May 16, 2008, 01:53:58 PM »
Thanks Alexioco! You really will help out the community alot by sharing and the community will help you back.

I also want to give my opinion of sketchup+sketchyphysics;

The idea is really good, but the plugin is in it's infancy stage and it really shows. It's quite buggy and unintuitive but it has a lot of potentional in the future. I am going to make  video of what I made with it...it won't be anything good due to the unstableness, really to bad. What is also a huge turn off is the fact it doesn't (yet) support material properties like setting friction, mass, elasicity to certain bodies. Currently everything seems to have the same mass big or small.

Anyways thanks again for your wheel alex, I might just try to build this with real materials  :o.


Offline Alexioco

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #77 on: May 16, 2008, 02:06:44 PM »
Thanks Alexioco! You really will help out the community alot by sharing and the community will help you back.

I also want to give my opinion of sketchup+sketchyphysics;

The idea is really good, but the plugin is in it's infancy stage and it really shows. It's quite buggy and unintuitive but it has a lot of potentional in the future. I am going to make  video of what I made with it...it won't be anything good due to the unstableness, really to bad. What is also a huge turn off is the fact it doesn't (yet) support material properties like setting friction, mass, elasicity to certain bodies. Currently everything seems to have the same mass big or small.

Anyways thanks again for your wheel alex, I might just try to build this with real materials  :o.

Yeah, Im willing to help you all and each other, lets crack this wheel  8)
as you can see, I need to add a rim and the other side of the wheel, then an axel needs placing either side of the wheel or, you could have a thick hallow axel with holes through it big enough so the poles can shift.

With making this wheel I have learned that the levers have to be attached in a certain way (like in my pic) they have to be attached right under the other lever if you see what I mean, that way the poles can shoot up earlier, I am nearly sure that the poles can have more heavy weight on, not much more heavy though and also the lifting weights which fall could be placed further down the lever closer to the axel to give the out weights more chance of being the prime mover...

Offline broli

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #78 on: May 16, 2008, 03:43:48 PM »
@Stefan;

instead of using sliders, why not hack your own in it like this...

(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x12/broli123/wheelBarings.jpg)


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #79 on: May 16, 2008, 03:48:29 PM »
Okay Alex,
many thanks for posting this.

You showed the wheel in its neutral position,
where all 4 parts are equally placed.
Good idea to begin the modelling in WM2D this way,
then the rods(bars) can go out each on its own.

Will try it later when I have taken a small rest.

Regards, Stefan.

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #79 on: May 16, 2008, 03:48:29 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #80 on: May 16, 2008, 03:59:55 PM »

Offline broli

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #81 on: May 16, 2008, 04:49:52 PM »
At first site it doesn't seem to be free, and I really don't feel like learning a whole new package. Currently I'm again rebuilding the wheel with better planning. It seems like the more I try the more clean it gets.

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #81 on: May 16, 2008, 04:49:52 PM »
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Offline broli

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #82 on: May 16, 2008, 05:23:49 PM »
Alex I just noticed in your last photo that the small weights that push the big rods up are gone?

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #83 on: May 16, 2008, 06:55:08 PM »
I took them off, also the weights arn't needed to lift the rods :p if the intire mechanism was heavy, the wheel would run without rods lol

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #84 on: May 16, 2008, 06:56:36 PM »
Alex I just noticed in your last photo that the small weights that push the big rods up are gone?

I took them off, also, you dont need any weights for the rods to lift, the mechanism can do it on its own, its funny because if the mechanism was heavy enough, the wheel would run without weights :p

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #84 on: May 16, 2008, 06:56:36 PM »
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Offline Alexioco

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #85 on: May 16, 2008, 07:34:49 PM »
When I think about my wheel I can think of little problems I may have but over all I think it will work, but it will be weak as its output will be one weight strong I think, for me this does not matter as I only want one to entertain myself, if a large wheel was built and the weights were really heavy then it would be a strong wheel, I think that the wheel will be as strong as the weight of one of the weights you use in the wheel meaning there is a small output with less input. Suppose this wheel does not work and we exhaust in different ways, then I will be leaving for a while to understand his MT's, and I mean all of them, and try to combined all of his important wheels, or the ones he points at, but at the moment, Im sure I have combined the correct wheels as it is, im disappointed though as MT 27 is no in my wheel and that is a very very important wheel, unless it is in my design and I have not noticed it, anyway this wheel needs finishing and I?m becoming impatient about these weights, I attempted to make some but fails as its not practical, the weights I need are to be cylindrical with a hole running through them so the rods can be inserted into the weights...
This wheel will look impressive when its done, I just hope it does something impressive too.
I also need a wheel rim, so I can attach the other wheel on with a hinge then have some equal spaced pegs to keep the other wheel on, then put an axel each side and let the thing go.

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #86 on: May 16, 2008, 09:33:17 PM »
If sketchyphysics does not work out,
maybe have a look at Newton3

http://www.simsoft.ch/newton/index.php
download at:
http://www.z-online.ch/WebBuild/head_fs.asp?KundenID=Simsoft&S=1&PageNr=9

here are a few video tutorials:

http://www.dsmm.net/English/newton/video_tutorials.php

Good one Stefan.

This programme is a lot different to what we are used to. It is a virtual Meccano set in essence. You can choose from a number of parts like pulleys, gears, levers, shafts and so forth, already rendered in 3D and assemble them as you would with Meccano parts. You can also make up your own parts.

In other words you are actually building a virtual machine much as you would in a real workshop.Unfortunately it is expensive $140.00 US plus shipping was the cheapest I have seen so far.

Some examples:

(http://www.designwareinc.com/img/newton/newt3.gif)

(http://www.designwareinc.com/img/newton/newt2.gif)

(http://www.designwareinc.com/img/newton/newt1.gif)

Hans von Lieven


Offline broli

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #87 on: May 16, 2008, 09:48:37 PM »
Oke here's some stuff from my new setup. This is the 3rd build and it's much cleaner and "stable" :p

Video: http://broli.dommel.be/httpdocs/lAlexWheel.avi (a bit choppy)
Image:
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x12/broli123/alexwheel-1.jpg)

Currently the wheel is pretty much locked, I think this has to do with the fact I can't insert a mass value, I think everything has the same mass now. And like I also noted earlier sketchyphysics is a bit lacky  ;D.

Oh yeah here's is a previous attempt, this one just explodes :p.

(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x12/broli123/alexwheel.png)

Offline Scorpile

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #88 on: May 16, 2008, 10:25:27 PM »
No, Stefan it does not behave naturally.

After the simulation comes to a standstill there is massive acceleration on the return. That is NOT natural behaviour if the wheel itself is in a balanced state to start with.

If you give a balanced wheel a push, it will come to a standstill. It will not reverse direction like a pendulum.

There is something decidedly odd here. It would seem to me from my other simulations that the more kinetic components there are in the system the more unreliable the programme becomes.

Hans von Lieven
If you model an unbalanced system, if you don't model it at the total rest point, will have accumulated energy before you release it.  When you activate it, will start to act like a pendulum, why? because the gravity pull things down on the right of the central point of the system, and pull things down on the left side also, and it has to get rid of the accumulated energy due the imbalanced start position.  But it depends a lot on the mass of the system and friction of the joints in real life, cause it can release energy there, reducing the pendulum efect.


Offline Alexioco

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #89 on: May 16, 2008, 10:45:38 PM »
the link doesnt work ???

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #89 on: May 16, 2008, 10:45:38 PM »

 

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