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Author Topic: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex  (Read 117759 times)

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2008, 12:13:51 AM »
@Stefan,

There has to be a massive problem with WM2D. The wheel on my simulation uses initially a weight that spins the wheel in the opposite direction to the perceived imbalance. As expected the wheel slows down when the inertia of the weight is exhausted, stops and reverses.

Now, ift there is an imbalance this is exactly what should happen.

At this point there is NO more energy in the system from the initial push. The wheel now spins in the opposite direction and accelerates.

This is again what one would expect. It does this for about one full rotation and now something happens that it could not possibly do if the simulation so far is accurate. It slows down, stops and reverses again. There is no possible physics reason for this. I think the whole simulation is flawed.

Any comments?

Hans von Lieven

hahahahahahaha lmao thats got me laughing, my wheel is a super wheel eh? hahahahaha
so it starts, then reveres, then stops and starts to reverse again? hahahahahaha

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2008, 12:13:51 AM »

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2008, 12:18:04 AM »
I wasn't talking about your wheel you idiot.

Hans


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2008, 12:18:29 AM »
Hi Hans,
well there was a bug as it says physical constrains are not set right
and asked, if I wanted to continue.
Better use these green pin joints to join together parts,
as they have no bugs.

Well, as exspected your wheel bounces back and forth and will
come to stillstand after a while.
No wonder...
There are no springs in it and also you do not use any centrifugal forces.

So I guess I can save me the work to do a movie on this one.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2008, 12:20:43 AM »
oh........ Well with posting on my topic I thought you were lol
So you have an auto bio directional wheel with a mind of its own? lol nice one

and you dont have to be so rude...


Offline rlortie

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2008, 12:25:07 AM »
You are loyal Ralph and I trust you, if you really want to then you may also build it, please keep me up todate and there are a few things I can tell you to make sure the wheel is made correctly, up to you though, if so then consult me by email.

Also I am capable of making my wheel, and its not long til its complete, im a newbie to this you know thats why its taken me so long, its not like i am as good as you...

Alex,

Thank you for your trust!  Yes I wish to to do some experimental research, first on your  original concept and then with some augmentations I have in mind.  I will keep you updated, but first I have some other obligations to catch up on. One being a promise to you!  Two others relate to wheel builds that I must complete first.  Just having your permission to get involved relieves me of a lot of stress!

As for you not being "as good as I"... Do not put yourself down, you may be better than I, you simply do not have the resources, tooling and experience. You have obviously proved you have a creative perceptive mind, the inability to carry through with the physical part is irrelevant as to how "good" you are.

Ralph   

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2008, 12:25:07 AM »
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Offline Alexioco

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2008, 12:31:33 AM »
Alex,

Thank you for your trust!  Yes I wish to to do some experimental research, first on your  original concept and then with some augmentations I have in mind.  I will keep you updated, but first I have some other obligations to catch up on. One being a promise to you!  Two others relate to wheel builds that I must complete first.  Just having your permission to get involved relieves me of a lot of stress!

As for you not being "as good as I"... Do not put yourself down, you may be better than I, you simply do not have the resources, tooling and experience. You have obviously proved you have a creative perceptive mind, the inability to carry through with the physical part is irrelevant as to how "good" you are.

Ralph   

Sir, if I have caused you any stress then I'm ashamed of myself, Im sorry for being so secretive and I will indeed post my wheel once me and you have sorted it out privatly.

Offline broli

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #51 on: May 16, 2008, 01:06:02 AM »
My sketchup build was a complete mess  ;D. I should have planned it better before rushing head first. Time for the second attempt! Also thanks for the video footage, it helps a lot with what the idea is.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #51 on: May 16, 2008, 01:06:02 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #52 on: May 16, 2008, 01:10:20 AM »
Hi All,
here is a picture of Hans?s wheel,
as someone without WM2D
could not have seen it yet.

Hans maybe you can incorporate springs in there to
save the potential energy from being wasted, if the weights
have gone down.

Also try once to fix the springs OUTSIDE the wheel.

If the springs are fixed to the wheel,
they also pull via themself the wheel into the other
direction , when the spring pulls the weight back.

This is not wanted as the wheel will thus
deaccelerate or rotate into the other direction until the weight
hits the wheel.

This I just realized.
So it can beneficial to fix the springs outside of the wheel with one
end and with the other end at the weight.

Hope this helps.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #53 on: May 16, 2008, 01:17:36 AM »
Looks likes quite an interesting mechanism, so it turns anti clockwise, at the moment in that drawing there are more weights on the left than right which will cause some movement, but after a little bit of movement there seems to be an equilibrium, how do you propose to over come this?

Offline rlortie

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2008, 01:39:25 AM »
Alex,

[Sir, if I have caused you any stress then I'm ashamed of myself, Im sorry for being so secretive and I will indeed post my wheel once me and you have sorted it out privatly.]


Sir!  I may be your elder, and I appreciate the intent. But when it comes to forum talk I am your peer, one of equal standing. And you did not cause my stress intentionally, it was brought on by myself due to concern of your innovation-invention not getting the recognition in a scientific manner I deemed it deserves.

As for posting your wheel, it appears to me that you have already done so!  I will get a private message off to you later this evening.

On an open source forum things tend to go astray in a hand basket, sometimes in a hurry! I did not wish to see it happen here and to you!

Now that that is off my chest!  I am wondering what if any connection there is between your design and the WM2D just posted by Stefan for Hans?

Ralph   

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2008, 01:39:25 AM »
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Offline Alexioco

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2008, 01:47:44 AM »
Alex,

[Sir, if I have caused you any stress then I'm ashamed of myself, Im sorry for being so secretive and I will indeed post my wheel once me and you have sorted it out privatly.]


Sir!  I may be your elder, and I appreciate the intent. But when it comes to forum talk I am your peer, one of equal standing. And you did not cause my stress intentionally, it was brought on by myself due to concern of your innovation-invention not getting the recognition in a scientific manner I deemed it deserves.

As for posting your wheel, it appears to me that you have already done so!  I will get a private message off to you later this evening.

On an open source forum things tend to go astray in a hand basket, sometimes in a hurry! I did not wish to see it happen here and to you!

Now that that is off my chest!  I am wondering what if any connection there is between your design and the WM2D just posted by Stefan for Hans?

Ralph   


They are nothing like eachother lol, thats not to say that his or my ideas are bad, his is quite creative and I hope he goes far...

I talk to you on email it will be better...

Offline rlortie

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2008, 02:12:46 AM »
Hans,

I am not familiar with your above WM2D concept, I fail to see why springs are mentioned.

I do not see any elliptical gradient therefore no "Out of Balance" a circle drawn around the perimeter of the weights is somewhat if not very symmetrical or a true circle.

I do see a very good example of Newtons law of motion part # 3.. [If any force acts on two bodies, the change in momentum in both of them is the same.] Now it is obvious that your design allows for accelerated impact in a counter clockwise rotation while being dampened (squeezed)on the ascending side.

Base on this assumption and if Newton is correct then WM2D should show a slight inertial acceleration compounding with the fall of each descending weight. That is of course will cease once the falling weights match velocity with the container they are falling in.

This is all I am going to comment on this subject as I do not see the relevance to thread title.

Ralph 

 


Offline fletcher

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2008, 02:15:16 AM »
Alex .. I suggest you take a deep breath - expect the same outcome that you laughed about with Hans WM sim attempt [he's obviously trying out the program] - your concept admirably demonstrates the fallacy of 'trading height for width' - end of story.

Nevertheless, as I've said all along, build it & see, even get Ralph to build as well to be doubly sure, but look at things with a critical eye - your lifted superior weights are redundant i.e. not required vis-a-vis add nothing to the design - you would do just as well to have weights located at the folding pivots only - the school of hard knocks is the best teacher for sure so I can't fault you for skinning your knuckles.

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2008, 02:20:32 AM »
You are right, just build the thing and see what happens, the more talking I do, the less testing I do...

lol I do know one thing, trying to get perpetual motion is not easy haha you have to laugh though...


Offline rlortie

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Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2008, 02:34:21 AM »
Fletcher,

As usual you and I agree or this time I should say I agree with you.

Alex .. I suggest you take a deep breath - expect the same outcome that you laughed about with Hans WM sim attempt [he's obviously trying out the program] - your concept admirably demonstrates the fallacy of 'trading height for width' - end of story.

So why am I overly interested? Its because when Alex first passed this by me, I saw the fault and brought it to his attention. I also say what I believe is potential for negating the hight for width scenario that seems to pop up in almost every design we see.

I cannot go into depth as it is not mine and in my eyes considered confidential prior property rights.  Alex can post all  he wishes but I am still bound to only that which has been stated or he gives me authorization to proceed.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander, I do expect Alex to keep my responses to him confidential.

Ralph   

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex
« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2008, 02:34:21 AM »

 

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