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Author Topic: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device  (Read 190601 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #555 on: November 04, 2017, 07:25:57 PM »
...

The exact amount of power can be accurately calculated in this system.

...
Brad

Well said, Brad ! (And I hope your post doesn't disappear this time....    ;)    )

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #555 on: November 04, 2017, 07:25:57 PM »

Offline ramset

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #556 on: November 04, 2017, 07:40:07 PM »
Good to read Farmhand is still about.[even better to See Minnie around ]

To those not building here who are just watching and  concerned?
please don't be.
its not your time its not your money ..[obviously not talking to Brad the builder here] .if you don't like what you see
change the channel.

there is absolutely NOTHING that will stop these investigations .

Luc received Carroll's hand wound Matt motor today and Slyder will be running thru the Arduino code and circuits so-as to automate and data log all the important data ..[everything will be shared at the forums when the vetting is done.

the real tests are about to begin...
and Luc is having a good time .

also a side note, Duncan is traveling next week but when he gets back ,he is going to see if he can repeat his battery Frost event for the camera.

all good stuff IMO

Chet

Offline webby1

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #557 on: November 04, 2017, 08:49:03 PM »
If the stored energy in the 2 fully charged series connected batteries is known as well as the stored energy in the 3rd partially charged battery, then if the 3 were connected as outlined with no other load would the ending energy stored within all 3 batteries be less than at the start?


Thinking kind of like the cap to cap dump.


If that is the case then the path, or resistance offered, would not consume ANY extra energy  FROM the batteries,,  How could it?  if that energy is lost without anything there then something there is only using what would normally be lost,,,


To me then, to say it is "burned up" in the motor is wrong,, if it is "burned up" without the motor anyway.


If on the other hand the energy within the 3 batteries is the same,,, I am not sure of what that would mean.


Other than that, the only way the 3rd battery can get charged is going to make the motor run and the only way the motor can run will make the 3rd battery get charged,, the time to charge changes with the increase in resistance of the motor, the speed of the motor decreases with the increase in charge of the 3rd battery.

Offline tinman

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #558 on: November 05, 2017, 03:46:49 AM »
Brad,
Here is exactly what happened.
When we first threw the switch, nothing happened. Ten to fifteen minutes later the motor suddenly started up. The voltage on the bad battery would jump to 24 volts. It would go down to about 18 volts, and then the motor would slowly start and begin to run, speeding up gradually. The voltage would continue to drop down to around nine volts, at which time the motor would suddenly shut off and the voltage would immediately jump back to 24 volts and the cycle would repeat. [/size]To try and get the system to keep from shutting off, I ASSUMED I needed to keep the battery in the third position from becoming charged, so I began to hook loads to it. I used an inverter and powered all kinds of loads, balancing the load on battery three by putting an additional LOAD ON THE MOTOR. It did amazing things. Then it quit, or I killed it somehow by taking it apart.


My assumption was that it shut off because battery 3 was charging, but once the system shut off, battery 3 (the bad battery we tried to charge before we started, which WOULD charge up, but wouldn't hold it) wouldn't hold charge. SO when the charge dropped, the system started up again. OVER AND OVER for an entire day before we started putting loads on battery 3/


Have seen this same thing happen with other batteries in the third position for a short time until the battery "repaired" itself, and then quit. But can't get that effect to last or figure out WHY. SO have given up on that.

Ah,ok.

Well there are a few things that can cause this effect.

As your battery kept suddenly falling back to a non charged state,i would think that the battery had a bad/broken cell.
When it started taking a charge,lead oxide could have bridged the gap in the broken cell for a short period. Once the battery started taking a charge,the internal resistance of the battery would have started to drop,and at a certain value,the motor would have started to run.
As the charge state of the battery increased,the internal resistance of the battery decreased,and the motor would speed up.
At one point,the current flow through the battery would have gotten to a point where it simply burnt the lead oxide bridge between the broken cell's--like a fuse going pop when too much current is sent through it.
Once the bridge is broken,the motor would have stopped,and the battery would once again appear to be totally discharged.

Once the fluid in the battery settled,the lead oxide would once again form a bridge across the broken cell,and the process would start all over again.

The reason this would work with very few batteries,is because it would be like a 1 in 100 chance of finding a battery with a broken cell,where the break was such that the lead oxide could bridge it in such a way.

If you have such a battery,that wont take a charge,raise it a foot or so above solid ground,and drop it on the ground.
Once again,put your battery charger on it,and see if it takes a charge.

This is just a simple test to see if you do have a broken cell.


Brad

Offline itsu

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #559 on: November 05, 2017, 02:13:07 PM »

I happen to have a depleted, broken or otherwise defective 12V / 7Ah battery which only holds about 7.2V.
I have used the above mentioned setup (2x 12V / 7Ah batteries in series, across the depleted battery in series with a 12V dc motor) in trying to revive this battery.

It takes a while (10 minutes) before the motor starts turning and keeps on increasing in speed (voltage/current) while the depleted battery voltage keeps decreasing
from 24V to 14V  when i stopped this run due to bedtime.

Overnight this battery hold its voltage to 8.16V, so it looks in a somewhat better shape. 
Guess i can repeat this test with a longer duration to see if i can fully restore this battery this way.
Temperature measurements did not show any in - or decrease during the half an hour test.

Video here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1Yu3uk85Ko

Itsu





Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #559 on: November 05, 2017, 02:13:07 PM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #560 on: November 06, 2017, 01:10:02 AM »
I made a longer 3.5 hour run today in trying to revive my depleted / no charge holding battery.
I think i gained another volt as it settled down after a few hours resting on 9.78V which is still a far cry from the 12.5V this battery should be able to hold,
but 2.5 volts better then with what i started with (7.2V).

One thing i again (after yesterdays run) noticed is that when taking temperature readings of the + and - leads of the battery, there seems to be a difference of max. 0.7°C
especially during the start / middle period when the voltage and currents are fluctuating heavily.

Lateron it settles down again till about 0.1°C difference which i think falls within the specs of the used temp meters.
I used a laser temp. meter and lateron backed it up with a fixed temp. probe on a multimeter.

Here the table of todays run:

time into the run         + lead temp. °C     - lead temp. °C       Delta °C

00:00                         20.1                     20.5                       0.4
00:20                         19.9                     20.5                       0.6
00:40                         19.7                     20.4                       0.7    <<<<< max.
01:00                         19.1                     19.7                       0.6
01:30                         20.3                     20.7                       0.4
02:00                         20.4                     20.8                       0.4
02:30                         21                       21.1                        0.1
03:00                         20.8                    20.9                        0.1
03:30                         21.2                    21.3                        0.1

Video here:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcgXGp9q6gU   


I guess i have to confirm in a better way that there is a temp. difference (cooling effect?) during loading of a battery or more specific, of such a depleted / no charge holding battery.


Itsu
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 10:25:20 AM by itsu »

Offline ramset

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #561 on: November 06, 2017, 01:39:22 AM »
Well
that seems unusual.
very nice work itsu ,some have been discussing the test criteria and adding Temp monitoring was being kicked around too [as opposed to spot checking] , Now it seems data logging temp should be mandatory  [checking plus and minus was very smart  8)


hopefully the arduino will have enuff ability to do this on 4 or 5 batteries during the various automated cycling stages.

very nice indeed .

Chet

PS
I am sure you are aware Duncan will be doing a test when he gets back from his trip to see if he can reproduce his frosty battery event
that would truly be something to see.




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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #561 on: November 06, 2017, 01:39:22 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #562 on: November 06, 2017, 04:47:57 AM »
Well
that seems unusual.
very nice work itsu ,some have been discussing the test criteria and adding Temp monitoring was being kicked around too [as opposed to spot checking] , Now it seems data logging temp should be mandatory  [checking plus and minus was very smart  8)


hopefully the arduino will have enuff ability to do this on 4 or 5 batteries during the various automated cycling stages.

very nice indeed .

Chet

PS
I am sure you are aware Duncan will be doing a test when he gets back from his trip to see if he can reproduce his frosty battery event
that would truly be something to see.
[/glow]


Indeed.



Brad

Offline itsu

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #563 on: November 06, 2017, 10:27:53 AM »
Chet,

yes, that comment from Duncan and others about freezing up etc. triggered me to do these temp. checks.
This morning my depleted battery has settled down to 9.3V, so 2V gain, but nowhere near topcondition  :)

Itsu

Offline ramset

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #564 on: November 06, 2017, 01:01:31 PM »
itsu
Regarding your battery
yes looking into temperature claims seems interesting indeed.
also
I suppose it would be a good one to test some other methods for restoration, I know Brad and others have ideas on how to do this.
some are pretty radical and perhaps dangerous,[maybe to do inside on the bench ?]

This testing Luc is doing is taking up too much time this way [his valuable bench time]
and needs to be automated so he can just set it to run and do other things.
Also
some very interesting investigations/claims coming down the path...

Honestly ,we do have to sort the funding out here...a method to  get parts and funds to the builders so they can get projects done

This resource [you builders here and elsewhere ] is priceless and really needs to be nurtured not abused ..too many good builders get burned out with the extra burden to their life [poverty from spending ]

will talk to Stefan again about this ,he mentioned some other method, but it was more commercial stuff not funding, maybe a donate button like Peter did for builders at his forum?

we are trying to Budget the parts for these upcoming projects ! and right now we need to get all the bits to automate Luc's testing and data collection.


some VERY cool projects on the path ,one which has been around a very long time and never been publicly tested.
and some new insight into the Benitez claim ,and then there is the all soo tempting "water work " sonoluminescence etc...

 To be clear
all these projects will be done in a manner which can be replicated on the average builders bench.

**well one long standing claim will have a "fixture" which is not readily available ,but if the gain is found it will be reproducible on the average guys bench.

the tools we have available today , technology and support systems to monitor , adjust and regulate experiments on the average bench...is mind boggling,  add the support we have from the scientific community to that recipe !! :o

we need to sort funding and equipment donations and.......

lots to do ,  we need people help too

Chet






Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #564 on: November 06, 2017, 01:01:31 PM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #565 on: November 06, 2017, 05:19:57 PM »

Chet,

i think i tried every trick in the book to revive this battery which was a gift from a neighbour.
He had it standing unused on the shelf for more then 10 years so this gel battery was dryed out.
I tried to charge it, but it was unable to hold more then 4V, so i added some distilled water to the cells
which brought it back to about 8V.

After that i tried severall things like desulfate it, pulse it, nanopulse it, short it, boost it, rock it, drop it etc.,
but still it only holds about 7 - 9V.

I think its a dead end, so i tried it for this 3 battery test without good results as it now is back to 8.2V.


Thanks for the info on what your are doing in the background, its of great importance, we cannot thank you enough for doing all this
under the circumstances you have to operate under at the moment.
Its much appreciated!

Itsu

Offline ramset

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #566 on: November 06, 2017, 07:23:41 PM »
itsu
Thanks, although nothing could happen in the background without the  work of fellows here and elsewhere .

an amazing pool of talent !


Chet

Offline tinman

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #567 on: November 09, 2017, 04:53:08 AM »
In light of Luc's testing and scope shot's of the !Matt! motor,it would appear to me that there measurement error has been found.

It would seem to me,that the power being sent back to the source,is being counted as power dissipated by the motor--when in fact,it is power stored in the motor,being returned to the source.

As the current has an AC component to it,a power factor correction would have to be made,in order to calculate the correct power dissipated by the motor.

This power factor correction would be the total power - the power returned back to the source.

Looking at the below scope shot,i have marked two red lines showing the portion of power being returned to the source--a PS in this case.


Brad

Offline ramset

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #568 on: November 09, 2017, 09:02:56 AM »
The good news is that the fellows are seeing much longer run times than have been publicly presented thus far[in this new thread at EF] ,and a much bolder and simpler method to see these extended run times  will be shared .
even parts and such are being offered by the fellows [to Luc for testing]

if they can get their thread back over there??


it will be good to finally understand what is happening here ,I believe this next method will finally put this into a very clear perspective.


Offline tinman

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #569 on: November 09, 2017, 11:04:51 AM »
The good news is that the fellows are seeing much longer run times than have been publicly presented thus far[in this new thread at EF] ,and a much bolder and simpler method to see these extended run times  will be shared .
even parts and such are being offered by the fellows [to Luc for testing]

if they can get their thread back over there??


it will be good to finally understand what is happening here ,I believe this next method will finally put this into a very clear perspective.

Oh let me guess--BroMonkey is on the loose again.

Quote
it will be good to finally understand what is happening here ,I believe this next method will finally put this into a very clear perspective.

Cool
And then it's on to that other one you were talking about Chet?,---Thats the one im waiting for.
Might even build me one of them  ;)


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #569 on: November 09, 2017, 11:04:51 AM »

 

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