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Author Topic: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device  (Read 187813 times)

Offline Dbowling

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2008, 08:46:19 PM »
For those of you following this, here is how I started. I  discharged the batteries I am going to charge by attaching them to a common automobile headlight and running them down until the bulb no longer even glows. Since I don't know enough about capacitors to use them to discharge, this is as good as I can get. Then charge them up with my device until I read about 13.1 volts on my volt meter. Then attach a DC inverter to them. I attach a Kill-A-Watt meter (brand name) to the inverter and plug in a 100 watt light bulb. I run it  until the inverter beeps at me and tells me there is not enough current to keep the bulb running. I realize there will actually be electricity in the batteries at this point, but I really don't care. All I care about is I started as close to zero as I can get, and I will measure the kilowatt output (which seems to be about  .33 per charge and runs the light bulb for three hours) I charged the batteries three times yesterday and last night and ran them down. On the fourth time it wouldn't work. I believe this is because I have been pulling the batteries out of the charge circuit as soon as they read 13.1 volts instead of waiting for the system to shut itself down when everything is charged. Or else the whole thing is a dud. I will keep trying.

If my calculations are correct, there are about 1260 watts of power in the batteries I am using (4 18 Ah batteries and one 33 AH battery) and I only accounted for 990 watts used up by the light bulb, so not very impressive so far. The rest of the power could easily have been used up by the motor, which ran for nine hours during the testing. So maybe the thing doesn't work and I used up all the watts available. But that's what testing is all about. Anyway, I will keep posting what I discover, so if it ever comes out right, you will see the data here. I think the errors are mine rather than a failure of the system, but only time will tell as I continue testing.

As for the question about whether or not I could charge a partially charged battery. I think the batteries I am putting into my system now have a partial charge even after running the 100 watt light bulb for three hours. But I haven't measured them to see.

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Offline NerzhDishual

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2008, 11:15:52 PM »
Hi guys,

May I suggest you to consult this page:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/962-use-tesla-switch.html

And notably the Peter Lindemann 's post about the Tesla Switch. (08-23-2007)

Quote
..........the original circuit was developed by Ronald Brandt. The 1983 date of the
Brandt circuit pre-dates John's work on this system. Ron's circuits used mechanical
contacters as switches, but apparently worked quite well, as long as the contacters
lasted.
John [Bedini] was the first to adapt this circuit to solid-state switching,
using the SG 1524 dual flip-flop functions and bipolar transistors as the switches.
So, exactly why this is called the Tesla Switch is beyond me.

John has told me that his "cigar box" unit ran a small electric motor for more than 6
months without discharging the batteries AT ALL.
He also told me that the original working model
was smashed by a "guest" in his shop who was infuriated by its
operation, while John was out of the room. At this point, he decided
not to rebuild it. I know John personally, and have no reason to doubt this report.

Obviously, the voltage drops in the transistors and diodes present a CONSTANT loss
during operation, not to mention the energy dissipated at the load.
Therefore, the system defies all standard explanations and energy use equations.
The batteries apparently stay charged and run loads simultaneously for a reason that is not conventional.
.......................................

Emphasis are mine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, as Reported by Sterling D. Allan

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:David_Bowling's_Continuous_Charging_Device

Quote
The system does not involve resisters, diodes, rectifiers, transistors. It's
basically just batteries, a motor, wires, and switches
.

@Dbowling :
So, IMHO, the design of your Continuous Charging Device is perhaps genuine (and
certainly easier to built) but should use some "Tesla Switch" principle.
And I bet is  does work... :)

Best


Offline xee

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2008, 01:28:51 AM »
@ DBowling
If it doesn't work it is better to find out before you quit your job and sell your house, rather than afterwards. I still hope you will get it working, but your data does not look good at this time. These kinds of ups and downs are part of doing research.

Offline Dbowling

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2008, 06:15:33 AM »
Just an update...I have gone back to charging two batteries at a time, as many times as possible, and if that doesn't work, will go back to one. The problem with only charging one is that when I try to measure how many Kwh it puts out running a 100 watt light bulb, it doesn't put out much and will take me forever to get the data to prove anything. But that may be my only option. I have charged two batteries in parallel twice so far today, and am running my light bulb now to discharge them the second time. I will post again tomorrow night with the results. Lots of folks have e-mailed me to say this won't work, and lots with words of encouragement. I guess only time will tell. If it turns out to be a dud I will be really glad I didn't waste everyone's time and money by posting my circuit here.


Offline zerotensor

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2008, 07:47:38 AM »
The digital meter probably has a choke or ferrite bead to suppress transients.  This might explain why the system wouldn't run with the digital meter in place, but did with the analog one.

I like Stefan's theory.  Seems right-on to me.

David:  If you get this thing running consistently, it should be a snap to wire up a switchboard to automatically flip the batteries around, all the while running a load.  If you could run a decent load for a very long time, say 100x as long as you could with the batteries alone, that should convince even the most dyed-in-the-wool skeptic.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 04:35:52 AM by zerotensor »

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2008, 07:47:38 AM »
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Offline fletcher

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2008, 07:59:47 AM »
That sounds very sensible zerotensor.

Offline seekingknowledge

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2008, 09:08:27 AM »
Stefan, where would we have the sparkgap with a conventional dc motor? are we able to have it without taking the motor apart, do we need to connect and disconnect the power rapidly like the newman machine? like have the circuit that goes via a plywood disk connected to the motor that rotates and has segments to disconnect the power rapidly to the motor, it wood only have to be in one direction because the commutator inside the motor would take care of the rest.

And on that note i will just say i did something simler once just as a quick experiment to see if the motor would get rotation , and it did but was slower then what it was with a normal connection and the same power supply obviously because of the constant disconnection, but god there were some sparks let me tell you but the experiments stoped there, it was only a very small 6v motor to which i had a plastic bottle top on the end of the sharft and a peice of wire that looped around it which had the 8 segments connected to it which they themsleves were a just a piece of wire, one brush connected from one terminal of the battery to the loop of wire and another brush (which was held by my hand) then connected the segments to one of the motors terminal while the other terminal of the motor just had a normal connection to the other terminal of the battery.

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2008, 09:08:27 AM »
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Offline Doug1

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2008, 11:54:45 AM »
  Yes it does work. This is the experiment that got me started down this endless path to begin with.
   I used a 24 volt dc motor from a Merits wheel chair and ran it off a 12 volt deep cycle battery with a charge of 11 volts. No motor load because the battery was drained very low and half the voltage the motor was rated for. I was at the time more exited by the thing then over any other event in my life.
  Timing the device was the hardest part. The inside commutator was left alone but used for reference to build the external commutator which was made simple by taking the braking disc that came with the motor and applying fat pieces of wire onto the flat surface spaced evenly and slightly off alignment slightly compared to the inside commutator segments. The disc was built up with Elmers glue until the wires were completely covered and then it was sanded down to expose the wires so they could be used as contacts as the motor spun. Aluminum strips #4 were placed so as to make contact and feed the the power from the battery in short pulses to the motor internal commutator. The second set of contacts were used to pick up the back emf and spark event which was isolated through timing back to the single battery 12vdc. It often reached over 125v on the battery terminals using an ordinary volt meter. After three of the longest most boring days of my life watching this set up run with periods of varying battery voltages ranging from 11.5v to 125.v I turned it off the wife was getting pissed.
  The spark gap thing does work but it also has a short life because the sparks are eating your contact materials which throws the timing off slightly requiring adjustments. I did not consider using two batteries because i did not have any faith it would work to begin with partly because of the crude construct secondly because it just did not seem possible.
   And so the path from hell began with a pile of parts from an old farts wheel chair.
 It would be nice to try it with a golf cart motor only next time I would maybe not use so much junk or make it look nicer or something. The sparks change color at times in conjunction with the voltage readings mostly this was seen at night. If you think you can watch paint dry for 36 hours straight, enjoy.

Offline zerotensor

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2008, 01:57:07 PM »
If my calculations are correct, there are about 1260 watts of power in the batteries I am using (4 18 Ah batteries and one 33 AH battery) and I only accounted for 990 watts used up by the light bulb, so not very impressive so far. The rest of the power could easily have been used up by the motor, which ran for nine hours during the testing. So maybe the thing doesn't work and I used up all the watts available.

David:

It seems that you are confusing energy, power, and capacity.  This can get complicated when you are dealing with chemical batteries.  Stick to what you can show.  Here's a simple experiment you could perform which may help to illuminate what is going on:

Get 6 fresh, identical batteries.  Do your discharge thing with two of them. Set-up your device with two of the good batteries and one dead, just like before.  Now, separately, wire up the remaining three batteries , using a length of wire in place of the motor.  Test both setups with identical loads.

Without knowing the actual details of your circuit, I can't say for certain that this test would make sense, but if it does, this should provide us with a qualitative demonstration of the effect, if it exists.

Voltage and current measurements are nice and all, but if you really have something here you should be able to demonstrate it clearly without getting into the messy quantitative stuff.  I don't care about the voltage and the current readings-- those can be misleading.  Show us the energy!  The quantitative measurements can be made in a university lab once the viability of the technique has been clearly demonstrated.

I strongly recommend that you disclose the circuit as soon as possible.  Forget the "black box" gambit, unless it is your intention to turn-off serious interest and label yourself a charlatan.  (There will no doubt be more than enough of that, anyway).

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2008, 04:47:52 PM »
Stefan, where would we have the sparkgap with a conventional dc motor? are we able to have it without taking the motor apart, do we need to connect and disconnect the power rapidly like the newman machine? like have the circuit that goes via a plywood disk connected to the motor that rotates and has segments to disconnect the power rapidly to the motor, it wood only have to be in one direction because the commutator inside the motor would take care of the rest.

And on that note i will just say i did something simler once just as a quick experiment to see if the motor would get rotation , and it did but was slower then what it was with a normal connection and the same power supply obviously because of the constant disconnection, but god there were some sparks let me tell you but the experiments stoped there, it was only a very small 6v motor to which i had a plastic bottle top on the end of the sharft and a peice of wire that looped around it which had the 8 segments connected to it which they themsleves were a just a piece of wire, one brush connected from one terminal of the battery to the loop of wire and another brush (which was held by my hand) then connected the segments to one of the motors terminal while the other terminal of the motor just had a normal connection to the other terminal of the battery.

It depends on what kind of DC motor you use.
A standard 12 Volts car motor as was used in this case might have already have some
bad brushes contacts as the graphite brushes have been worn out
and this way it is sparking at the commutator.
This way you get the desired effect.
But surely you will improve it, if you make the brush?s tips smaller than the copper
segments gap length, so every time the graphite tip comes to a copper gap, it fires
the BackEMF from the coils of the DC motor.

Hope this helps.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2008, 04:47:52 PM »
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Offline Dbowling

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2008, 06:26:31 PM »
I have been having trouble getting things working right, and some of the data I presented here, I needed to explain a little better.
I completely exhausted two 18Ah hour and one 33Ah battery by hooking them up to a headlight. I charged them through my system and then ran a 100 watt lightbulb for three hours before the AC inverter beeped at me and said I had no more power to run it. I did that three times. It produced .33 KWh hours of electricity according to the Kill_A-Watt meter and ran the light bulb 3 times for three hours each time. Each time I let it run to the 3 hour mark, even though it was beeping, because it was still going and three hours was a nice round number. On the fourth time my batteries I was using to charge with were dead. So I produced 990 watts. If ALL the batteries in the system had been fully charged there would have been about 1260 watts of power available. Since only two were charged, there should have been 432 watts available. So if the (2 18AH and one 33Ah) batteries were really dead, I produced more than I should have, but still not "endless energy" as I had hoped. I am assuming there was some life in those batteries, but enough to make up the difference between the 432 that should have been available in only two batteries and the 990 I produced, especially when I had been running the motor for 9 hours? I don't think so. I wanted to produce 10 times the 1260 watts the batteries were capable of, IF THEY HAD ALL BEEN FULL so the experiment failed, but I think the results were still significant. It would have been nice if I couod have produced at least 1260 watts and run the motor the whole time.

When I first started messing with this, I noticed that when I was charging a battery and connected my AC inverter to the battery I was charging and plugged in a light bulb, the motor sped up and the voltage on the first two batteries increased. At one point it showed 18 volts across the batteries and that scared us, so we shut it down. We let the two batteries set, and a half hour later they still showed 14 volts. We discharged them using small motors down to around 12 volts because we were worried. We also noticed that when we put a load on the motor by tightening the pulley, it increased the voltage measured on the charging battery. I don't remember if it increased the voltage measured on the other two batteries, and that is not in my notes, so I may not have measured it.

Now, when I put a load on the battery I am charging, the voltage in the first two batteries goes DOWN. I think this is where my problem lies. In the beginning it was going up, and those batteries were recharging. They aren't anymore. I've got some variables here that I need to isolate.
1. The batteries I am using now are from a different manufacturer----my original batteries are in California with the machine I built at a friend's house.
2. The batteries I am using now were charged using my system, and then charged from a wall charger. I noticed that took way longer than usual, and the meter never read "full" no matter how long I had them on the charger. Perhaps switching back and forth has done something to the batteries
3. I've run the heck out of this motor for three weeks now. Maybe when it was brand new it was capable of doing something it is not capable of doing now.

I am going back to the very first experiment I did with my original motor, two batteries and my original dead battery and start over from there. If I can't figure this out in a couple days, I will just post my circuit here and let the brainiacs on the internet have at it. This worked. It is not working now...or at least not like it was. I am still getting more watts of power out of this than it should be capable of producing from the two charged batteries, but they are running down after only charging the system a few times. Oh, and one other thing I noticed over the weekend as I kept trying to make this work.

I charged four batteries (two 18Ah and one 33Ah) three times before exhausting my two starter batteries
I charged TWO (18Ah) batteries three times before exhausting my starter batteries
I haven't tried charging just one battery yet, but I will do that tonight and see what happens.
It seems to be "charging sessions" but I will have to see.

Offline Guard_Dog

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #41 on: May 05, 2008, 06:36:07 PM »
Hey Dave,
Don't get too carried away. I'm inclined to agree with the 'keep it simple' approach. There will be plenty of brains on the job to refine, maximize, and quantify the actual limits in time. Hook it up to something and let it run indefinitely. All you need to prove is that it will keep regenerating the batteries on it's own without any outside help. If it can start and stop itself as it charges and recharges a worn out battery that won't hold its charge, then maybe you can try a good battery on the back end with a small draw that should slowly take the back end voltage down until the motor starts back up again.
I'm wondering also if you've thought of hooking it up at your fathers house in place of the solar array to see if you can keep his bank charged up for several days. Do you need to take all the load off the back end for it to do its thing or can you leave some load in place while you charge and it will still be capable of completing the cycle and replenishing the front end? In other words, like when you did the test with the old battery, if you had a light bulb hooked to the old battery on the back end, would it still kick back in (once the voltage has dropped enough) and the motor come on with that light bulb still hooked up (on the back end battery)? And will it still replenish the two front end batteries in the end with that light bulb still burning (a low load)?
Whatever the case may be, don't give yourself a headache: simplicity is the key in my opinion.
Cheers!

P.S. I just read your last post and it kind of answers what I was wondering about. It sounds like the draw might have to be removed from the back end before recharging... also sounds like you might be wearing out the brushes in your original motor... doh! (minor details)


Offline FatBird

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #42 on: May 05, 2008, 10:24:40 PM »
Mr Bowling,

Do you have the first 2 Batteries in Parallel for 12V out to the Motor?  Or do you have the first 2 batteries in Series for 24V out to the Motor?

I am asking because I think I know what the problem is.


Thanks.
.

Offline Linearfashion

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #43 on: May 05, 2008, 11:04:54 PM »
David, i believe I have duplicated your experiment. Every description you have given I have also observed. I believe the there is an illusion going on here. By measuring only the voltage in the charging (charged) battery you are seeing what is believed to be a full charge, however the battery is not actually at full capacity. If you charge a battery your way then charge another identical battery using a conventional method then hook them up to separate and identical loads I'm sure you will find the conventionally charged battery will outlast the other. With the system running indefinitely your middle battery will go "dead" first and your "charging battery will be charged and your first battery will be at approximately 80%. I really really hope I am wrong!!


Offline FatBird

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #44 on: May 05, 2008, 11:56:04 PM »
David, i believe I have duplicated your experiment. Every description you have given I have also observed. I believe the there is an illusion going on here. By measuring only the voltage in the charging (charged) battery you are seeing what is believed to be a full charge, however the battery is not actually at full capacity. If you charge a battery your way then charge another identical battery using a conventional method then hook them up to separate and identical loads I'm sure you will find the conventionally charged battery will outlast the other. With the system running indefinitely your middle battery will go "dead" first and your "charging battery will be charged and your first battery will be at approximately 80%. I really really hope I am wrong!!

I totally agree.  I suspect that the old batteries being charged may have been sulfated & thus "APPEAR" to be 100% charged to capacity, but are really not.

I have tried 2 different DC Motors & I CANNOT duplicate anything OverUnity.  The only reason the motor speeds up when a 12V Bulb or (Inverter Load) is applied across the Output Load is because the TOTAL Load Impedance (Battery + Bulb) now is LOWER, hence pulling more current through the Motor.


   ???



.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 02:45:53 AM by FatBird »

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #44 on: May 05, 2008, 11:56:04 PM »

 

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