Hey ALex hows the build going, anything yet
I am a big fan of combining 10 and 24, which eqauls 34 so throw that in their also ;)
Ok everyone, I think my wheel works, I made another one out of cardboard with a total of 8 weights, I had to hold the wheel on its axel but it kept turning as each weight moved, it was a terrible test, so I cant say for sure, but it seemed to of worked, all I have to do now is make one out of wood and then we will really know...
Ok everyone, I think my wheel works, I made another one out of cardboard with a total of 8 weights, I had to hold the wheel on its axel but it kept turning as each weight moved, it was a terrible test, so I cant say for sure, but it seemed to of worked, all I have to do now is make one out of wood and then we will really know...
Well done Alexioco
I wish you all sucsess
Keep on doing good working as Jim and alex are doing
Helmut
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I think you got it
i might try and build it also, any thoughts, i like it very much
Here is the wheel you saw in the footage, except its been improved and its combinded with besslers wheels...
First Wheel: The Movement
Second wheel: If you doubled the amount of weights
When weight A falls out, it lifts weight B
When weight C falls in, it pushes up weight D
Weight B and D are connected so when one end is lifted and the other end is being pushed, they are helping each other therefore creating a constant off balance.
Here is the wheel you saw in the footage, except its been improved and its combinded with besslers wheels...
First Wheel: The Movement
Second wheel: If you doubled the amount of weights
When weight A falls out, it lifts weight B
When weight C falls in, it pushes up weight D
Weight B and D are connected so when one end is lifted and the other end is being pushed, they are helping each other therefore creating a constant off balance.
Thanks for sharing Alexioco
One can easily emagine,how the wheel is about to work.
This is a new way to manage weights and make them work into a wheel.
Besseler himselve would be happy to see this construction.
helmut
Wow, that is a beautiful idea! Ever since you posted the vid. I have been trying to figure it out, to no avail... I really hope it works.
Hello AlexiocoHere is the wheel you saw in the footage, except its been improved and its combinded with besslers wheels...
First Wheel: The Movement
Second wheel: If you doubled the amount of weights
When weight A falls out, it lifts weight B
When weight C falls in, it pushes up weight D
Weight B and D are connected so when one end is lifted and the other end is being pushed, they are helping each other therefore creating a constant off balance.
Thanks for sharing Alexioco
One can easily emagine,how the wheel is about to work.
This is a new way to manage weights and make them work into a wheel.
Besseler himselve would be happy to see this construction.
helmut
Thank you Helmut, I am honored for you to say this to me.
I also like to thank God for inspiring me :)
and @ P-Motion, yes they are connected so pair of pairs working, they indeed help each other to lift, what I like about this wheel is this; normally when a weight reaches the bottom, it hangs and does nothing, just another weights to lift, but now, we have that bottom weights doing work as well as using the top weight to do work, then even connecting them (pair of pairs), so we have quite a powerful effect...
Hello AlexiocoHere is the wheel you saw in the footage, except its been improved and its combinded with besslers wheels...
First Wheel: The Movement
Second wheel: If you doubled the amount of weights
When weight A falls out, it lifts weight B
When weight C falls in, it pushes up weight D
Weight B and D are connected so when one end is lifted and the other end is being pushed, they are helping each other therefore creating a constant off balance.
Thanks for sharing Alexioco
One can easily emagine,how the wheel is about to work.
This is a new way to manage weights and make them work into a wheel.
Besseler himselve would be happy to see this construction.
helmut
Thank you Helmut, I am honored for you to say this to me.
I also like to thank God for inspiring me :)
and @ P-Motion, yes they are connected so pair of pairs working, they indeed help each other to lift, what I like about this wheel is this; normally when a weight reaches the bottom, it hangs and does nothing, just another weights to lift, but now, we have that bottom weights doing work as well as using the top weight to do work, then even connecting them (pair of pairs), so we have quite a powerful effect...
I did some Modifikation on your Wheel
What do you think about, to use a long lever to push the (B) weights with higher torque.
Now it is a matter of math to find a suitable relationship between A and B
helmut
Sounds great, I can't wait to see what you have done :)Do not expect to much
Ok I have made another improvement to my wheel, I have added another wheel, I belive my wheel to be complete now, tell me if you agree that my wheel is improvedHi Alex
thanks :)
Well I thought the above wheel would be the best one as not only do the weights A and C do the lifting, but they also take an outer position on the descending side...
Sorry, was thinking the rod went all the way past the axle.
You are right, it might be the best one to try. One thing I like
about it is it's simplicity. If it works, you will know why. And if it doesn't,
shouldn't take much to figure what modification you need to make.
That is one thing about it, if you are used to working with a scale
of 5 and 10 ounces, might be easy enough for you to try a build.
A lot of it does come back to what a person is comfortable working with.
So really, the only thing to do now is to build this wheel then we can see the results....
Yep :-)
That's the position I'm in.
Shall I initiate the drum-roll? :)
Really looking forward to seeing what happens...
Hi Alexioco,
sounds great,
can you post a few pictures and a youtube video again ?
Many thanks in advance.
Regards, Stefan.
Many thanks.
If you describe it again in detail,
we could try tosimulate it in WM2D and see, if we can
get it to run there as well and then scale up much easier...
I did not yet understand how you set it up.
Have to reread the whole thread...
What is the current design ?
Am very excited already.
Good luck !
Regards, Stefan.
@ Alex
Before you get into this wheel to much, write me. I will save you some steps.
..... I think it is as Hartiberlin mentioned, it is your idea because you did think of it. And if someone gives you a suggestion to help you, it is still your wheel. Or in your case, Alexioco's working Bessler Wheel.
Has a nice ring to it.
Please can you repost your pictures or can somebody else ?
Why did you delete them Alex ?
I wanted to study them this evening and now you keep us away from
helping you or understanding your technology ?
Surely we are exited too when we hear your claims...
Please share at least your last pictures again.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Alex
It is allot harder to make work than it looks. You have to look at it as a center sliding weight, (which I have worked on and still look back at from time to time). So there for you will have to have almost double the weight shifting it than the weight shifted. Here is where the problem comes in, in a moving wheel. The ascending weight is falling back against the direction of the rotation and since it is almost the weight of the shifted arm, it alone can stop the turning, for it also moves faster from 9:00 to 6:00 point than the 12 to 3 point due to the direction of the spin and tend not to shift smoothly. That is where I was going to help you, how to smooth it's movement.
Looks like history has a nice way of repeating itself. Can't we just all get along instead of accusing each other of theft because NOONE CARES. This is why projects should be open source or else this kind of unproductive/unconstructive/childish behaviours arise from pure greediness. Ofcourse I'm not in that position to give a valuable opinion, but I pray to god that greedyness will never stain my vision.
Greetings Alex
Here is another photo of a different angle of my wheel. I do have one thing to say on your design work. If it is open sourced you will not be able to patent it, yet it may already be to late. And if you want to work with Ralph on this, I am sure he would give some warnings about posting open forum as well. I trust him with any of my designs as well, and he is the only other person outside of my family who will know what I am doing. But all and all it is up to you, and I have made my offer, but I will not show any of my personal projects outside of the one posted here, for I don't want them abused.
...Help would be greatly apreciated, anyone got idea on some over the below stuff then please post, thank you ...I think a sliding rod - crossing the center of the wheel's axis - would be helpful.
Hi Alex,
where did Bessler comment each of these designs ?
Can you please post the link to the original file ?
What about your wheel Alex ?
So does it now work ?
Did you already record a video ?
Many thanks.
Thank you :)
and by the way, i made a mistake i didnt mean two revolutions but the wheel started turnging and a weight rised, the motion continued then another weights rised ready to continue so two weights rised but then the levers lipped off the nails, funny as I was using pennies to turn my wheel :P oh yeah and also it worked with 1 pence pieces lifting two pence pieces :)
But I need the weights so they can lift eachother, by the way, no one seems to have taken any notice what I found about MT 137
What i am going t odo is study every wheel and write down how they all work just like bessler did next to his 56 wheels...
Maybe this is the missing link Besser did not show in the Machinen Tractates ?
By the way, where did John Collins get the original Maschinen Tractates from ?
Why does he hold the copyrights to it and can sell it ?
Is there no original copyright free version ?
As Bessler is already 300 years dead, all licenses must have be invalid by
until now and it must be in the open source public domain...
...
In all here presented MT designs and proposals from Alex and the others I miss the springs...
Maybe this is the missing link Besser did not show in the Machinen Tractates ?
...
What i am going t odo is study every wheel and write down how they all work just like bessler did next to his 56 wheels...
Alex,
Are you going to write down how they work, or why they won't work. The latter being the intention of the 54 he did complete. They were intended for the students of his never founded school to study and learn the reasoning of why they did not function as the inventor proposed.
To my thinking the ones he indicates hold potential for improvement are 9, 10,11, 14, 18, 24, 25, and 27... 15 is questionable as he states "nothing of the prime driver is to be seen here.
I would suggest emphasizing research on these and forget the rest until after you have exhausted all hopes of finding what is missing. Such as his statements of pulling back the curtain and connectivity.
Ralph
Gustov22,
I think a sliding rod - crossing the center of the wheel's axis - would be helpful.
This guy Archer Quinn is making a lot of publicity for this set up, lately. I stole the idea from him. I hope he does not mind.
You did not steal anything from Archer Quinn, I am 68 years old and the first time I saw it, I kicked the slats out of my cradle :) Actually it has been around way before Bessler was a gleam in his fathers eye!
Check my photo gallery and you will find a sample of one spoke set up on a 360 degree adjustable ramp, There were eight levers on the machine. Purpose of the test was to attempt finding a sweet spot for the ramp position and degree of inclined plane. Results proved their is no sweet spot and it will not work.
Archer has shown us nothing that has not been tried before. Any day now I anticipate someone of his skills hollering hallelujah! I have invented a fur lined bath tub to keep the water warm...
Ralph
Stefen,
http://a-z-studios.com/gallery/
nice pictures here and a great Flash site.
Well done.
Thanks, but the credit is not mine, A high school graduate already had the web link. He joined the Navy and gave me the sight. All I know how to do with it is add pictures and images. The rest I could edit and personalize if I knew how but I don'tt.
Did you ever get something to work contineously ?
I have came close a number of times but, no! I cannot claim a runner, One often when working on a design will develop tunnel vision without realizing it. It is normal to finally realize the you have configured it into a balanced wheel that will spin for a long time simply due to kinetic and inertial forces applied with that moderate starting push. It will spin forever but will not produce a sustaining force, let alone any output.
Have a look at the ramp pulley system I just posted here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4683.msg97622.html#msg97622
Did you ever try something like this ?
With another additional ramp it can be made probably selfoscillating.
I am not into WM2D other than "Wood, Metal & 2 Days" Therefore I do not feel qualified to make comment on your above screen shot. I can with confidence say that I have built and researched many ramp designs, ramps being either internal or externally fixed. Some using magnets not unlike Archer Quinn's proposal. IT WILL NOT WORK!
When using ropes and pulleys with or without ramps one must consider what centripetal forces are going to come into play during rotation. In you above design I feel very apprehensive that it will eat it alive.
The first rule of thumb I use for evaluating a design is to remove all the mechanical gobbely-Goop and look at the positon of the weights. I then vector them within a vertical reference. Then tally both the ascending and descending sides. Most end up being a hight for width scenario. Even Bessler took note of this and claimed anyone believing that it will work is in for a disappointment.
You will often see the term "hight for width" posted by either Fletcher or myself as he is also well educated in the school of hard knocks learning to appreciate it as I have "The hard way".
@Alex,
You made a statement in a previous post stating that your axle moved up and down. Would you care to elaborate on that. If a wheel is to work this characteristic is a welcome sight if the source of such action is due to "out of Balance"..
I refer you to the 'Borlach' papers regarding his eye witness report on watching Bessler's wheel.
.
Ralph
Alex,
Edited for Brevity;
When the axle is in my wheel, the axle is just off center so when I lift the wheel over the axle its falls back around and the heavy part of the wheel rests at the bottom..
To the layman, you are admitting that your CoG or COM is located at the bottom of your wheel. To the gravity wheel researcher being educated in basics 101 this is a sure sign it will not work! I have graduated from that semester and do not always see it as a bad thing. A balanced wheel must be out of balance if it is to turn! You are changing the angular momentum, a force that we are told can neither be created or destroyed. Depending on application your wheel must either speed up or slow down.
Ralph
Hi Ralph,
yes,the green and blue ball ramp experiment is just the same as a lever
construction or a pulley construction.
You pull a heavier weight up by pulling double the length,so the energy
stays the same.
Did not work.
Now I see it too.
But look at my new centrifugal force helped wheel in the other first thread
on this board.
It seems to run pretty nice and also shifts the CoG over the axis all the time.
Regards, Stefan.
P.S: Alex, did you already try a few household weights on your wheel ?
So how is it doing ?
Everything is ready, just need the weights, the rim is attached on, only thing, my wheel has been built and is good but if it works it probably wont last that long as the levers will soon snap?
I would think it would last a few months then it would have to be stopped and kept still and have just for show?
Im off to get some car wheel weights and melt them to make weights for my wheel, then the other side of the wheel can be fixed on.
Failing this, then I have something which comes from this (improved) that should be an eye opener, time will tell?
"Im off to get some car wheel weights and melt them to make weights . . ."
Alex, lead -- as is used in car wheel weights -- is extremely toxic even in low quantities. It causes brain damage among many other things. Breathing fumes from melting lead is an excellent way to get a lot of lead into your body. I hope you know what you are doing. I can't see why you don't just buy some appropriate-sized steel hexagonal nuts at your local hardware store.
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10031
[ETA: or as erickdt suggests, weights from a sporting goods store.]