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Author Topic: Alex's MT Combination  (Read 87826 times)

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Alex rediscovered the Bessler wheel
« Reply #75 on: May 12, 2008, 11:52:20 PM »
Looks like history has a nice way of repeating itself. Can't we just all get along instead of accusing each other of theft because NOONE CARES. This is why projects should be open source or else this kind of unproductive/unconstructive/childish behaviours arise from pure greediness. Ofcourse I'm not in that position to  give a valuable opinion, but I pray to god that greedyness will never stain my vision.

You are right my friend, greediness is wrong...

Ok P-Motion hold on, lets se if we can sort this out, in a few words, tell me what you have to say about the wheel I posted, just a few words.

I don?t want this to become an argument, I will say this;

I have been little harsh in taking off my drawings and stirring people up, I am sorry for this, and in return, I shall put my wheel back on with a description and a video.

Now P-Motion: You according to Alan are changing your posts, you even said to me to do it too because you have seen others do it, now lets get this sorted, we both need to apologies to everyone on here, once we have, lets just work as a team on this new wheel invention which I couldn?t of got with information here and through Gods grace...


lol it makes me want to laugh as we are all here arguing like mad men about something that is supposed to be impossible  :D

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Re: Alex rediscovered the Bessler wheel
« Reply #75 on: May 12, 2008, 11:52:20 PM »

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #76 on: May 13, 2008, 12:06:17 AM »
and about your editing posts?

Edit: Go on, you can do it :)


Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #77 on: May 13, 2008, 01:31:42 AM »
 Like I said before, I am alway ready to help you, and I think this string is a good place to start.
I am posting one of my non runners of a push pull slide weight system. This is the closest that I have done to what you are building as far as I can tell. But this won't consist of my breakthroughs. My work today consist of the prime mover design. And that is the one thing I will not show on a public forum. So for this help that I am doing for you. You call the shots on this project, I am here to help and build on open forum.

On the wheel you will see slides, these are to keep the movement from locking up. The arms are for condensing and separating the arm are for pulling and pushing the slide weights. One set on each side. The holes in the flat bar are for weights or other possible attachments.

I also thank you Alex for clearing up the other problem, but don't give up on your forum, but this can give a little time to make it easier to use. Thanks

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #78 on: May 13, 2008, 02:32:33 AM »
Greetings Alex

 Here is another photo of a different angle of my wheel. I do have one thing to say on your design work. If it is open sourced you will not be able to patent it, yet it may already be to late. And if you want to work with Ralph on this, I am sure he would give some warnings about posting open forum as well. I trust him with any of my designs as well, and he is the only other person outside of my family who will know what I am doing.  But all and all it is up to you, and I have made my offer, but I will not show any of my personal projects outside of the one posted here, for I don't want them abused.


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #79 on: May 13, 2008, 02:58:22 AM »
@P-M

If those lines in M25 are in fact strings,  the  2 strings that go around the "pulleys" - as you would have it - are to be conected radially, between 2 opposite center-weights. the center weights have the leverage.
as the heavier weight falls (as an [upper] fixed weight reaches 12:00) this pulls the center-weight (at 6:30)
INWARDS to towards the center. 
As this happens the heavier weight, as comes around past 6:00, is pulled DOWNWARDS, back towards 6:00 because the center-weight is pulling UP on it with **3x the force of the weight + GRAVITY helping it out**  it moves not only downwards, but also inwards, as does the center-weight, creating an imbalance that keeps the wheel turning.

it appears that this wheel may indeed function as it is drawn.
This is not the same as Alex's mechanism. - i assume he is using the other levers from the other wheel, with a portion of this wheel to create what he has - im only imagining this by looking at the 2 drawings. It should be interesting when he is done.

I dont think arguing over who's part is whos is really of any importance to the final goal. We want a wheel that turns itself, plain and simple - and if we can accomplish this, i think the majority of the credit should go to the dead guy who left us these drawings.

this senseless squabbling is just slowing us down, from achieving the "impossible".  - a feat in and of itself which should be more fulfilling than who gets credit for making Bessler's wheel work.

** - the force applied (3x) was gathered the triangulation of the movable parts in their shown dimensions, and under the assumption weights are of equal mass. - this may have adverse effects on the momentum of the falling weights, and thus the momentum imparted by them onto the wheel - which would be a possible deadly flaw**

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Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #79 on: May 13, 2008, 02:58:22 AM »
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Offline Sprocket

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Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #80 on: May 13, 2008, 04:27:31 AM »
Greetings Alex

 Here is another photo of a different angle of my wheel. I do have one thing to say on your design work. If it is open sourced you will not be able to patent it, yet it may already be to late. And if you want to work with Ralph on this, I am sure he would give some warnings about posting open forum as well. I trust him with any of my designs as well, and he is the only other person outside of my family who will know what I am doing.  But all and all it is up to you, and I have made my offer, but I will not show any of my personal projects outside of the one posted here, for I don't want them abused.

You have made it clear time and time again that you will not be releasing publically any info on your designs, and that is your perogative, but what is becoming evident is that you do not want Alex to release any of his info either - to be blunt, you are coming across as someone who considers himself as a kind of high-priest of a forbidden technology, and is sworn to keep it from the yokels.

Grow up!

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #81 on: May 13, 2008, 06:46:45 AM »
AB Thanks for offering help, Yes, my wheel is combined from the following
MT 15
MT 14
MT 25

Soon I will be adding

MT 10
MT 27

To make my wheel even better.

Now I have some very exciting new for you all, I have found something VERY interesting in the MT's which I know for a fact you will like, again I wouldnt of found this if it were not for God...
I'm not going to tell you, Im going to help you work it out, I will go step by step with you, so here it goes..

Bessler commented on 56 if his wheels right?
Now go through the ones he commented on until you find a wheel that he talks about placing the mechanism around the axel/shaft.

When someone has found the wheel, post it on here then I will carry on...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #81 on: May 13, 2008, 06:46:45 AM »
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Offline rlortie

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Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #82 on: May 13, 2008, 07:14:25 AM »
Members,

I have set back while this three page ordeal has meandered on!  At no time did I offer input and my name was never mentioned until I seen this:

[Right now, I am not sure what to think. I do think I am in a hostile situation.
 I did send my SBC to the local editor. rlortie had tried taking credit for an idea I had. So I don't trust him.
 Difficult to say how things might go now.]

P-motion,  LittleB, P-4, Jim L. or what ever name you choose to cover your tracks!  Just when and where did I try to take credit  for an idea you had.  I did not know you had any credibility. It is my opinion you have been banned from more forums than you have had viable ideas. I find your remark slanderous as well as  deformation of my reputation. Now put up, retract or shut up.  we have already been through this before on another forum, you were  banned, not once but twice!

To the rest of any interested parties;  I have not at any time initiated any contact with Alexioco. that is not to say that I am not aware of the design, I just do not stick my nose where it is not asked for or wanted.

This I believe is either my 4th or  5th post here in 3 years, 1 month and a few days  of being a member, may the limelight shine on me! 

Ralph   
« Last Edit: May 13, 2008, 07:38:03 AM by rlortie »

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #83 on: May 13, 2008, 10:32:29 AM »
Ok i'm just gonna show you all some stuff Ihave found and other stuff I have ;earned through other people, my last one is the best one, I found it last night...

Help would be greatly apreciated, anyoe got idea on some over the below stuff then please post, thank you

P.S I dont take credit for all of this, but i do for the very bottom one and a few others...

Working out Besslers Code

MT 10

? Bessler wrote:
MT10... This is exactly the previous model, except that the weight-poles are more curved and longer. The principle is good, but the figure is not yet complete until I delineate it much differently at the appropriate place and indicate the correct handle-construction.

When he says "correct handle-construction" this could be a play on words;
Correct - Incorrect
Right - Wrong
Right - Left

What he might be saying is that his wheel is incorrect/wrong/left and that it should be Correct/right.

Meaning that MT 10 is upside down and backwards.

(http://i32.tinypic.com/2dbnplf.jpg)

? Bessler wrote:
Seen sideways or full face it is as glorious as a peacock's tail.

Yes, the correct wheel does look like a peacock?s tail...

MT 11

? Bessler wrote:
MT11... This figure is doubled, as one can see, and the form does not involve much, but there is more in it than meets the eye, as will be seen when I pull back the curtain and disclose the correct principle at the appropriate place, as mentioned previously.

Again, MT 11 could be upside down and backwards

(http://i29.tinypic.com/21kfl7n.jpg)

Peacocks tail...

MT 14

? Bessler wrote:
MT14... This invention is somewhat speculative, and the internal cross-tensions with the weights are movable; therefore, when the weights raise up one another, the cross-tensions are pulled up with their weights at the same time. What is objectionable about this model, what to learn from it and how it can and may be used, will all be treated later.

MT 14 has something all the other wheels have, and that?s the outer weights are connected to each other which act as one big weight which in this case are for lifting the inner weights.

(http://i28.tinypic.com/23icc9t.jpg)

MT 15

? Bessler wrote:
MT15... This ratchet-wheel derives from the previous model, except that the tensions are somewhat longer and have an additional special weight at the external ends. From this drawing alone, however, nothing of the prime mover's source can be seen or deduced although the figure shows the superior weight.

Mt 15 works in the same way as MT 14 except that the cross tensions have longer poles attached to them with weights at the end in order to create an off balance...

Note that the wheel has been drawn backwards which might mean it needs to be turned the other way, also the wheel must be very important to be the odd wheel out...

Also the inner weights are bent at an angle like the weights in MT 13 and also the inner weights are not connected to each other like the weights in MT 14.

(http://i30.tinypic.com/110ylms.jpg)
(http://i31.tinypic.com/23lehac.jpg)

MT 18

? Bessler wrote:
MT18... This is the previous spring-model, and it seems to be good, but seeming is different from being. In the meantime, the principle should not be disdained or entirely disregarded, for it says more than it shows. I, however, will show more than speak of it at the appropriate place.

In MT 18 he uses springs, and it could be that what Bessler is not saying is that when  the weights that are attached to the end of the springs are near the top of the wheel, the springs fling the weight upwards and over because the springs are not in their natural position...

(http://i29.tinypic.com/nzhy7b.jpg)

MT 19

? Bessler wrote:
MT19... This figure may be called a mere demonstration. There are nothing but levers with weights at the front ends of the levers, and if they are not very useful, they are also not harmful most of the time. A good friend, however, was violently injured by them. I cannot discuss it further. He endured more than I can mention here.

The weights not being harmful is a good thing, so it must be correct how the weights are facing inwards, but then Bessler contradicts himself by saying his friend was violently injured by one, could this mean that the weights and levers represent something?

(http://i25.tinypic.com/2118ocy.jpg)

MT 20

? Bessler wrote:
MT20... Here the previous levers work somewhat more peculiarly and raise up special weights and turn outward to the over balance. For this reason side A is always heavier, my friend supposed but I denied. I then reminded him to harness the horse in front.

The levers and weights might represent horses, the weights being their heads and the levers being their bodies and the little outward weights could be a person, his friend who was violently injured by a horse? Bessler then goes on to say to harness the horse in front, his friend (Little outward weight) must be sitting on the horse backwards; he needs to face the front...


(http://i30.tinypic.com/2cr4ie8.jpg)

MT 24

? Bessler wrote:
MT24... This invention ought not to be scorned. It consists of separate levers with weights. Between the weights are small iron poles with screw threads. The poles fall inward when the levers close. There is something one must learn first before one can grasp and correctly understand the good quality of the invention.

One must learn something, could this be that;
1. When the weights close at the bottom, the pole that it pushed up cannot fall back down as the pole becomes traped through the weight.
2. The weights can be lighter than the poles as the lever mechanism is positioned in a strong and effective way?

(http://i26.tinypic.com/w1pgg8.jpg)

MT 25

? Bessler wrote:
MT25... This is the previous model except for some differences. It is sketched with longer poles. There is something misleading about the diagram, for the poles, when coming out, must not project so far out but must bend somewhat further inwardly. There is more to it than one supposes; one must study the diagram extensively.

Could it be that the hidden quality in the wheel is that the weights are some how connected by a chord or chain?

(http://i26.tinypic.com/2qjaqud.jpg)

MT 27

? Bessler wrote:
MT27... This is the previous model slightly larger and altered: A are the levers interrupted at B and having a heart-weight at C, and D are the straps, or cords, and chains. It needs no further, lengthier explanation. This view shows what the thing might do if several things of this sort were placed next to one another along an axle-shaft.

When Bessler says
"This view shows what the thing might do if several things of this sort were placed next to one another along an axle-shaft."
Well isnt it obvious that the wheel will not turn as there is also an agumented problem in this wheel, so what is he really trying to get at, well if you copy the mechanism equally four times around the axel/shaft you get this MT 137, but only an 8 pointed star, not a 12 pointed star like MT 137.

(http://i28.tinypic.com/2uf6e12.jpg)

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #84 on: May 13, 2008, 12:22:55 PM »
Hi Alex,
where did Bessler comment each of these designs ?
Can you please post the link to the original file ?

What about your wheel Alex ?
So does it now work ?
 Did you already record a video ?
Many thanks.

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Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #84 on: May 13, 2008, 12:22:55 PM »
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Offline Gustav22

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Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #85 on: May 13, 2008, 12:55:46 PM »
Hi Alexioco,
I always wanted to tell you, that I liked your avatar very much.
...Help would be greatly apreciated, anyone got idea on some over the below stuff then please post, thank you ...
I think a sliding rod - crossing the center of the wheel's axis - would be helpful.
This guy Archer Quinn is making a lot of publicity for this set up, lately. I stole the idea from him. I hope he does not mind.

The attached diagram depicts one proposed arrangement (in two positions during one revolution of the wheel),
crosses denote joints.

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #86 on: May 13, 2008, 12:58:17 PM »
Hi Alex,
where did Bessler comment each of these designs ?
Can you please post the link to the original file ?

What about your wheel Alex ?
So does it now work ?
 Did you already record a video ?
Many thanks.

Well here is the latest info on my wheel then

Last Night I improved my wheel so now that the weights lift at 12 and retract at 6, I'm hoping that my i will have my weights in today so I can finish off my wheel, its possilbe I might have a few tech problems with my wheel, here is a reason i cant properly test it yet, My mechanism is attached on the wheel but because only one side of the wheel is done, when the wheel is put on an axel the wheel leans to one side creating to much friction, I have finished everything I can do now, all is needed is the rim the other part of the wheel then the weights...

Bessler commented on 56 of his drawings, have you not read them?

here we go: http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index.php?title=MT_1-20#MT_001


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #87 on: May 13, 2008, 02:57:25 PM »
Hi,
is there any original PDF file of the
Machinen Tractate document
where the website admin extracted the comments here:
http://www.orffyre.com/mt.html

?

As I can read old German language,
I would like to have a look at the original description.

The other original file
Triumphans Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum (Monografie) (183 Seiten)
http://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/no_cache/dms/load/pdf/?IDDOC=294885&

did not contain all the drawings, when I remember correctly ?
( currently it can not be downloaded.. seems their server is down...

Offline dani1

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Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #88 on: May 13, 2008, 03:03:53 PM »
Any similarity discovered?



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Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #89 on: May 13, 2008, 03:16:58 PM »

 

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