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## Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: pauldude000 on April 10, 2008, 02:35:14 AM

Title: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 10, 2008, 02:35:14 AM
MAN OH MAN!

First, I thunk I have had a mental breakthrough, and so I shall share the concept. IT IS BASED UPON MR MARKS OWN WORDS... IE the clues were there all along.

1. Sine or Square waves?

Either pure sine waves, OR square wave DC will create a rotating magnetic field. Sine waves created using DC input voltage are rather difficult to construct, and require complex circuitry to attain. Square wave DC though..... nothing could be easier OR more probable.

A. Simple circuitry (small boards low parts count).
B. Easily battery powered (1 9v works great.)
C. Simple frequency selection/waveform modification.

2. How to create a rotating magnetic field.

Tesla invented this, which he demonstrated with his "Spinning Egg", and is now used in every three phase system motor/generator on the planet.

2 or more coils, and for our purposes three, spaced properly and fed polyphase signals of the proper degree of offset create a rotating magnetic field. Three coils, require a spacing of 120 degrees offset (points of an equilateral triangle -two 30-60-90 triangles back to back, superimposed on the coil.)

I was mislead by my own thinking. the frequencies ARE a function of the center frequency, However, I was thinking linearly, and not properly.   It is NOT 0deg 90deg and 180deg; but instead is 90Deg -  0 Deg  90 Deg +

The three coils are fed --->

first coil, 90 degrees - (90 degrees preceding original waveform)
second coil 0 degrees (original unmodified signal)
third coil 90 degrees + (90 degrees leading original waveform.)

I also held the preconceived notion at one time that the waveforms represented a SINGLE frequency, modified to get three phases of the same frequency. However, this is not necessarily true. I have built enough stereo speakers so I should have realized what was going on. Phase shifts can ALSO be gained by using three separate SPECIFIC frequencies, all denoted from the center frequency. For instance, Steve gave all the information in the world with "5khz with some hash". Using square wave DC, and the three frequency patterns mentioned, you would have that exact definition, also the output would be "5khz but with a DC component". Both would be EXACTLY true, but in themselves misleading. I never once remember him saying AC.....

Using 5khz, which applies to a (the) 17" TPU (smaller coil higher frequency), we find that the first coil is fed with half the center frequency, or 2500HZ, the second with 5000HZ, and surprisingly the third with 7500HZ.

Why not 10Khz? 10Khz is 180Deg out, NOT 90deg.

ALL THREE FREQUENCIES ARE FED INTO A SINGLE WIRE SIMULTANEOUSLY. You will learn why below.

3. How to feed the necessary frequencies to the appropriate coils, and do so using feedback from the output.

This hit me like a thunderbolt. Since the output is pulsed DC, at three frequencies, all that is required to "tap" the output is a blocking diode, with a resistor or thermistor to limit current to the control coils. This IS FED TO A THREE WAY CROSSOVER, which splits one signal into three, and routes said signals to the appropriate control coil inputs!!!!!!!!!!

I THOUGHT THAT STUPID "CONTROL" IN THE CENTER OF THE 17" TPU LOOKED FAMILIAR!

The oscillator circuits feed three mosfets, each connected by matched resistors to positive, fed through diodes into a single wire into the crossover. ALL TPU CIRCUIT GROUNDS ARE SHARED.

4. How to calculate said frequencies.

The frequencies are HARMONICALLY PHASE SHIFTED and therefore are algorithmic, and NOT linear, to achieve 90 degree separation. The formulas for each coil are based upon a center frequency A.

coil 1 = 1/2 A --> (as expected 1/2 harmonic of A. This is A-90 Degrees.)
coil 2 = A --> (as expected, since is center frequency.)
coil 3 = A + (1/2 A) --> (A + 90 Degrees, instead of 2A as expected.)

All control coils to be wound bifiliar for maximum efficiency and coil energy. (read Tesla's explanation)

I hope that this post floors you, as much as the realizations floored me.

I may try to do some accompanying graphics later.

Paul
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: eldarion on April 10, 2008, 03:50:28 AM
Phase shifts can ALSO be gained by using three separate SPECIFIC frequencies, all denoted from the center frequency.

Hi Paul,

This is one of the best posts I have seen around here in a very long time!

Can you explain the quoted section a bit further?  I am an EE, not an audio person, and have never heard of that type of phase shifting before.  Are you talking about a phase shift occurring in the crossover itself?

Great find on the 3-way crossover!  Look, two inductors: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/audio/cross.html  They even look similar to parts of the "control" circuit.  "No mass circuitry"...

Maybe Steven just added a simple 9-volt powered blocking oscillator to the crossover to get the whole thing started...

Eldarion
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 10, 2008, 05:35:42 AM
Maybe my useage of "phase shift" in reference to the square wave DC frequencies was not quite an accurate phrase to use here, as no actual shifting is done to the square wave center frequency. (that would yield 1 frequency with a leading and trailing overlap, as viewed on a scope.)

I am referring to two different frequencies coupled together with a center main frequency. To the magnetic field they would APPEAR to be phase shifted, due to the degree of offset, and the fact that we are talking square wave DC.

This type of phasing is necessary when designing crossovers, to make sure that A. the frequencies overlap, and B. that the signals all reach the drivers in phase with each other, to prevent distortion due to signal time lapse.

I never thought it might have application elsewhere, so I never considered it before. However, Steven was big into audio...

Paul

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 10, 2008, 05:40:25 AM
The 3pass filter has to be fed from 3 oscillators to initiate the phasing then after that the output which will have all the original freqs in it is fed to the filter?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Dansway on April 10, 2008, 05:44:52 AM
;D

@pauldude000

Excellent.

This is indeed very good meat for the table.

~D

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: otto on April 10, 2008, 05:57:45 AM
Hello all,

@Paul

SINE WAVES!!

Otto
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 10, 2008, 07:12:54 AM
@sparks

exactly...

@Loner

This is what I want!! (and need. Constructive criticism to clarify ideas and point out errors, by people who are able to do so logically and knowledgeably.)

1. Actually I think you might be right on this one...

2. After experimentation with my scope, and reading Mr. Mark's letters I do not think the kicks are something you produce, they are something you seek to make sure your coil is tuned properly with the frequency. An ordinary coil, connected to the output of my variable frequency square wave oscillator (fancy way of saying breadboarded 555 astable setup) demonstrated extreme kicks with certain frequencies. The control coil could be adjusted to the frequency using a scope in this manner, by removing length until kicks at said frequency are evident. In Tesla's concept, until the coil "rings".

3. I don't remember the 35 and 245Khz statements. Not stating that he didn't, just stating that I didn't remember that. I will investigate further no matter what. However, I wonder if this was obfuscation on his part, like the misleading magnets/reed switches. I state this as I see no means of deriving 5khz using a combination of 35 and 245, except as only one MINOR subharmonic. It is not a derived beat, as the beat frequency is (freq1 + freq2)/2. So therefore, how would a minor subharmonic be the major frequency of the output? (unless the coil itself is tuned for 5khz, in which case using a 5khz center would still make more sense.)

4. Read spark statement above, as he understood exactly what I was getting at. One signal, three separate frequencies. The crossover separates the frequencies, then feeds each frequency to it's proper coil.

5. This was a misunderstanding as we have already learned in 4. You are absolutely right in that a crossover will not add frequencies unless it is malfunctioning . :) You are also right in that I am talking three frequencies, not one. The three frequencies will APPEAR phase shifted to the coils, if my brain is functioning properly. This was addressed earlier and was a bad phrase useage on my part. I am sorry for the misunderstanding due to my poor choice of wording. That was entirely my fault.

Please, all, feel free to criticize or ask for clarification, either one!

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: otto on April 10, 2008, 07:41:30 AM
Hello all,

sorry to jump in like a...

@Paul

I think that I was the first that jumped out with USING practically the 245kHz frequency. This is my "magic" frequency. If I mix this frequency with a lower I can clearly see that something is going on. In my 3 stack I found 2 lower frequencies between 10 - 100kHz + the mentioned 245kHz is a veeery hmmm...."exciting" frequency mix.

Again: SINE WAVES.

Otto
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: eldarion on April 10, 2008, 07:43:44 AM
2. After experimentation with my scope, and reading Mr. Mark's letters I do not think the kicks are something you produce, they are something you seek to make sure your coil is tuned properly with the frequency. An ordinary coil, connected to the output of my variable frequency square wave oscillator (fancy way of saying breadboarded 555 astable setup) demonstrated extreme kicks with certain frequencies. The control coil could be adjusted to the frequency using a scope in this manner, by removing length until kicks at said frequency are evident. In Tesla's concept, until the coil "rings".

I can confirm this particular aspect--some weeks ago, when I was working with the MAGVID concept, I noted odd kick-like waveforms when I fed stepped sine waves to my air core coils.  At the time, I wrote it off to a peculiarity of my power amplifier circuit, but now I am not so sure.  The "kicks" did not occur near the zero-crossings, so I do not believe they are due to crossover distortion in my amplifier.  (Actually, I have yet to note any kind of distortion on this particular linear push-pull MOSFET amplifier design.)

If anyone want scope shots, I can set the apparatus back up and see if they are reproducible.

Regarding the rotational field, I have attached a crude drawing of how the rotating field might be set up with those harmonic frequencies.  What is interesting to me is that you have come very close to the signals generated in Bob Boyce's overunity hydroxy setup.

I can probably dust off my old control circuitry and generate those pulse trains without any problem--I even have some ideas for the coil setup.  The only big question remaining is: where is the power amplification taking place?

When testing, will we see the power output occur on a normally wound toroidal secondary, or only on the 90-degree coils, I wonder...

Eldarion
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 10, 2008, 08:56:34 AM
@Loner

You are more of an expert than I am. (I am not even a drip yet, let alone a former spurt. I just profess to have a clue. I might still need to buy one yet. :D )

Concerning the bifiliar idea.... I thought the same thing, until I carefully read the patent again.... Tesla stated that it may be wound in "the conventional manner" with the same effects......... :) The bifiliar coil actually GAINS capacitance being "wound in the conventional manner". The purpose of such a coil is to have enough capacitance to CANCEL self induction, therefore CANCELLING back EMF. IE an inductive coil in parallel with a capacitor (tank resonator).

@Eldarion

I am just a tinkerer, not an expert, and that is why I want expert opinions. Call me professional. (I profess, therefore I am. :D )

I can probably dust off my old control circuitry and generate those pulse trains without any problem--I even have some ideas for the coil setup.  The only big question remaining is: where is the power amplification taking place?

When testing, will we see the power output occur on a normally wound toroidal secondary, or only on the 90-degree coils, I wonder...

The question, where is the power amplification coming from? I think I have an answer.

Question: In a normal alternator, what determines power?
Answer: speed of armature rotation and field coil voltage/amperage.

In other words, the strength of a given field cutting any given wire at X velocity. The faster the wires are cut, the more output. The stronger the field cutting the wires, the more output.

Two quick questions LOADED with potential. (Forgive the pun please :D )

1. With a rotational field not limited in rotational velocity by a spinning mass, what is the velocity at which it can rotate?

2. Being started with a miniscule 9 volt, the output is diddly. However, after the field speed increases, and the coil starts producing feedback driving the rotating field, the voltage rises in the control circuit commesurately with the speed of rotation, what is the maximum voltage and amperage of the control coils?

:) :D

Now you get where I think the amplification comes, since the only limiting factors I know would be 1. wire size 2. field drag on the wires and 3. component breakdown and subsequent failure.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: AhuraMazda on April 10, 2008, 09:30:33 AM
@Otto,
I am sure you used to be a "square wave" guy but now you have changed to a "sine wave" guy. What is the reason for changing?

AM
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 10, 2008, 09:47:10 AM
@Loner

Mental laziness. That is why I mixed the signal together in my mind before injecting it into the crossover. However, I see possibles for both situations, now that you mentioned it. Your concept of signal reinforcement (one signal buttressing another if there is say oscillator variance) is a seeming benefit for the one feed-wire approach. Yet, if the oscillator signals were added AFTER the crossover, then they may prevent a signal degradation I envision as a possibility. (Possible signal blending into a misshapen single signal.)

You could try the OP-AMP Circuit, maybe even phase lock (PLL) the suckers... at this point I am guessing as much as you. What I do know is that the frequencies HAVE to be separable for their respective control coils. Tuned control coils will take care of the rest, by damping out non-harmonics.

A coil is tuned by wire length in respect to fractional frequency period. (From my tesla coil days.) Frequencies can more easily be tuned to the coil, but in this special case DO NOT DO IT! The frequencies are not accidental. If the applied frequencies are not close enough to what is needed... the magnetic field WILL NOT ROTATE. It is the phase angles of the respective frequencies which cause the field to rotate.

If you choose a three wire method, also note that the output wires from the respective amplifiers be EXACTLY the same length. (I don't know why, but my mental imagery is insisting.)

I just thought of it, but wouldn't it help to have the collector coil wound bifiliar as well?

Paul

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 10, 2008, 09:59:19 AM
I am going to have to call it a night. It is almost 3:00 in the morning here, and I am developing a migraine. Mental sledgehammer is starting to dent rusty mental gears I think. Catch you all tomorrow, and have a good night all!

Paul
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 10, 2008, 10:13:56 AM
Why not just take a 3-phase motor and replace its rotor with a coil? Guess it won't work, because this overunity FX is not about rotating mag field. Rotating mag field may cause ether inertia effects to manifest, but do you really think it produces electric potential higher than what you have on your coils?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 10, 2008, 10:35:50 AM
Where sine-waves are coming is from RE potential which changes over time in a kind of "wavelet" (should look like a simple gaussian curve like function, or a single period of sinewave). However the RE potential appears only when pulse is created, you CANNOT create RE potential with a sinewave. This potential wavelet is caused by a DC wave formation. This is confirmed by Otto's findings in his TPU-ECD profile.

So, the only realistical reasoning for phase-sync of pulses I see is the requirement to line-up the DC potential wavelets so that they create a continuous AC output. But actually, you do not need three coils. A correctly spaced sequence of these wavelets creates a perfect sinewave by itself. Meaning you may not need more than a single control coil pulsed at a correct frequency which is actually depends on the pulse RISE time, not on anything else.

To put it in different words, you may differentiate the pulse front and you'll see the waveform which is approximated by Dirac delta function which by itself carries a DC energy. From theory, the narrower the pulse the higher the energy this pulse carries and thus the more DC energy is radiated leading to a heavier "effect".
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: otto on April 10, 2008, 11:04:29 AM
Hello all,

@AM

as always a very good question from you.

Marco showed us once how the output signal looks like: A SINE WAVE AND ON TOP OF THIS A KICK!!!

When I burned all my equipment, a long time ago, I had the same signal.

Now suppose we have a only sine wave feeded into our coils. What have we? NOTHING! We must have a voltage connected to our coils.

Now suppose the sine wave AND a DC, say +12VDC. What happens?

AS AN END RESULT WE HAVE SINE WAVES + KICKS ON TOP OF THIS SINE WAVES!!!!

I hope I was clear enough for ALL the builders here.

I knew a long time that I have to use a combination of AC and DC in my coils but I thought I had to use square waves and 12VAC from the heating supply from the tubes. As I builded "something" like oscillators with tubes I saw  big sine waves on the plate of my tube. So why not to use this sine waves?

In this way I saw that I need sine waves from the oscillator and a +xxDCV from my power supply.

On the other hand:

if we have square waves from our oscillators, then we need an AC voltage for powering the coils.

In this way would the TPU convert the squares into sines, as I saw it, and then you have the "success"!! As I see it, to work in this way is an aditional job for the TPU because the squares have to be converted. Of course, only at, or near the right frequency mix.

In short:

sine wave + DC

or

square wave + AC

Otto

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 10, 2008, 11:37:04 AM
Another useful idea about pulsing and RE sine-waves ("wavelets") is that they are MONOPOLE power-source themselves and should be treated as such. It is different from batteries or grid power. Actually, so much different that you won't read theory about them.

The oscillation visible after the pulse front (I'm referring to Fig.37 of TPU_ECD_V1_0 pdf file http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/Research/otto_ronette_TPU_ECD-V1_0.pdf) are probably some inter-atomic oscillations. The same applies to "seed" oscillations. As revealed by Otto, they depend on the metal combination.

Well, I myself was assuming that RE potential field should be always "ideal" like on Fig.29, but reality is much more complex as usual: such RE (gravity-antigravity) potential field of course causes reactive (probably phonon-based) behavior within the matter itself (Fig.44). Nevertheless, extracting almost ideal sinewave output is possible (Fig.42).

I really think that Otto have 'nailed' the effect, especially considering his claims of achieving independent control over square wave and surplus sinewave output.

Seems like MOSFET is the key here - its amplification and spark-like behavior are what I thought should work well. Square waves are just a trigger to MOSFET. So, this should be even better than "saw-tooth" wave I was referring often to. The sync between sine-wave wavelets and MOSFET spikes is a mystery to me, but this should have some kind of explanation.

I think we need more replications. :)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 10, 2008, 03:24:22 PM
In an induction motor winding one coil is wound cw and one ccw.  The coils are then placed in the stator 180 degrees apart.  The magnetic field is produced around the conductors in adjacent slots.  1/2 of which belong to opposite coils.
The coils are not solenoidal.  The magnetic circuit penetrates the air gap into the rotor iron back into the stator steel through the back iron and back to the air gap again.  On each current reversal the magnetic circuit reverses.  To get torque the magnetic flux needs to be shifted so a second winding is installed 90 degrees relative to the first.  Capacitors in series with this second winding or auxillary winding cause a leading current in this winding.  So the magnetic flux shifts from this secondary windings slot conductors towards the main winding conductors.
I put this in this thread because the tpu is using pulsed solenoids so that the electrical displacement of the signals becomes more of a function of the circumference of the tpu.  I picture the tpu as having what one could call a peristalsic effect.  This is quite unique to any generating or transforming circuit  I know of.  The resulting magnetic field of the collector windings would seem to reinforce the electrical pulse flow around the control windings.  Now you have a magnetic field and electrical field in harmony within the control coil.  And the beat goes on.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 10, 2008, 03:57:58 PM
Another thing everyone should seriously consider is that in signal synthesis terms it is IMPOSSIBLE to produce a single period of sine-wave having square wave or saw-tooth wave input. Only a sort of LINEAR PHASE filter may produce such waveform from a unit impulse. Linear-phase filters are hard to do in analog, they are more of a DSP concept. This 'period of sine-wave' is clearly NOT born in the circuitry or by means of this circuitry's elements, it simply can't (analog circuits are causal, they can't predict what kind of signal will be next, so they can't produce sine-wave rise front - well, sine-wave can be produced if you apply 4x order low-pass filtering, but here we see that in some case there are 2.5 sinewave cycles happen for each square wave pulse). I gave a possible answer of where it is born: this single period of sine-wave is a result of potential field that appears for a moment and which is created by DC acoustic wave (or scalar wave, or radiant energy) force field formation. I believe it is a monopole meaning it has an equal potential on both ends. In this respect it becomes an electrical energy source, and it should be connected to 0 or ground (or any other potential) whereas its ends can be connected together to form a closed loop.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on April 10, 2008, 04:30:17 PM
Once again the RMF rears it's ugly head, like Nessie out of Loch Ness...

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 10, 2008, 04:36:33 PM
Once again the RMF rears it's ugly head, like Nessie out of Loch Ness...
Nice joke! So you are comparing those lonely sine-waves to Nessie? ;)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Koen1 on April 10, 2008, 04:46:54 PM
Paul, dude, thanks a stack for those posts!  :D
This is a very nice analysis and description.
I must read it through some more, but nice brain straining you did there!
Thanks again :)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 10, 2008, 07:59:15 PM
@all

@aleks
Why not just take a 3-phase motor and replace its rotor with a coil? Guess it won't work, because this overunity FX is not about rotating mag field. Rotating mag field may cause ether inertia effects to manifest, but do you really think it produces electric potential higher than what you have on your coils?

Actually, yes. Yes I do. Consider this in your mind. The wavefront starts to rotate at with the 9v input. However, due to the extremely weak field strength, it's rotation speed is very slow. Considering the inherent capacitance combined with inductance due to tuned bifiliar control coils, each control coil is acting like an electric guitar reverb tank.

The signal is injected, travels to the end of the coil, to be reflected. Being that the coil is tuned to the frequency, said signal is still bouncing back and forth by the time of the next frequency pulse injects. With only one pulse, the wave dies out after several reflections. However, hitting this same circuit continuously should have an additive effect, as the new signals would harmonize perfectly with the old.

The field then rotates faster with each new pulse, as both the voltage, amperage, and therefore field strength/energy increases. Energy imparted into the collectors due to the rotating field is harmonic in frequencies with the control coils. Some of this energy is diverted into the control coils. This energy sums with the energy already present, and the total energy builds......

You can see where I am going. This energy would otherwise have been LOST to the system.

There is one major difference, as I envision either an air core transformer, or a ferrite core. Eddy loss, hysteresis, etc. are NOT desired in this design, though the iron core would increase field strength. Inherent field strength is not always the right approach.

@otto
I think the sines will come. I think that some will be generated due to induction out of the squares, due to some weird stuff I watched on my scope pulsing an air core coil. ( :D )

Paul
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: AhuraMazda on April 10, 2008, 08:23:22 PM
@pauldude000
That was a very interesting explanation but now, do you get any output?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 10, 2008, 08:46:14 PM
Why not just take a 3-phase motor and replace its rotor with a coil? Guess it won't work, because this overunity FX is not about rotating mag field. Rotating mag field may cause ether inertia effects to manifest, but do you really think it produces electric potential higher than what you have on your coils?

Actually, yes. Yes I do.
I think it won't work without MOSFET pulsing like Otto's TPU=ECD. While I disagree that this device "converts" these pulses, the sharp pulses MOSFET produces is what extracts energy. Any pure sinusoidal oscillations - be them acoustic or electric do not have DC component in them, they are not abrupt. Even thinking in resonance terms won't help.

When you turn the magnetic field "ON" it will collide with everything, but after that an equilibrium will be established and your magnetic field will basically become what could be called "ambient conditions".
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 10, 2008, 09:11:51 PM
@AM

You would. (Or at least should.) Consider a regular generator. How much energy of the output is required to drive the field? 1%, 5%? The rest of the energy to drive the unit is eaten up with friction, hysteresis, eddy loss, magnetic field fighting itself, etc. etc. etc., with the majority involved with spinning the huge mass of the rotor. A rotating field is frictionless, and of little apparent mass, and by nature cannot fight itself, or it will not rotate to begin with.

The only "friction" in the system is the magnetic field dragging over inductors. The only rotational mass/inertia is the apparent mass of the field itself, which is very, very small indeed. The field does not fight itself through attraction to itself. The limitations then are dependent upon maximum field strength and speed of rotation. Strength is limited by driving power, and rotation is limited by inductor drag and overall field energy.

Output therefore is determinable just like any other generation system, depending upon the winding style of the collectors.

Paul
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 10, 2008, 09:42:42 PM
Output therefore is determinable just like any other generation system, depending upon the winding style of the collectors.
There won't be any surplus energy. It's sad this is not obvious to you. The 'sine wave' output Otto got is actually a serie of "sine-wave" wavelets, there is no continuous sine wave available by itself, no filters no nothing. Not to note this combined "sinewave" provides a lot of energy at a given voltage, because this voltage is genuinely not from the circuitry: circuitry does not and cannot have that energy. The only thing I hope somebody tries is to use collector coil as an antenna - not as a part of circuitry.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: AhuraMazda on April 10, 2008, 10:58:36 PM
@aleks

The only thing I hope somebody tries is to use collector coil as an antenna - not as a part of circuitry.

We must identify the source of energy first. If switching magnets can some how manipulate gravity or the Earths own magnetic
field the we may get something.

As far as the waves shape goes, the lazy person in me say's use square waves but look around you. We live in an
analogue world and sine waves have a lot of properties. You can get a lot more interesting harmonics than you would
with square waves. Look at the works of Keeley or Russel and you see what I mean.

I think text book Electronic or Electrical engineering view is not enough to solve this riddle.

AM

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 10, 2008, 11:26:34 PM
I think paul's analogy to an alternator holds merit.  Say you can create a standing magnetic field.  Then the Earth's rotation causes the standing magnetic field to meet up with a coil.  The coil cuts across this field and out comes voltage.
Basically using the Earth to move your stator through a relatively stationary magnetic field.  This would create drag on Earth's spin momentum but she's pretty big and going pretty fast.  Is the frequency of conversion this easy?  It really isn't THat easy because the relevant  motion of a fixed point on Earth to the aether changes with lattitude and longitude and who knows the Earth may warp the aether instead of passing through it.  A point on the Earth is also traveling at 67,000 miles an hour in the orbital inertial field around the Sun.  This changes with not only longitude and lattitude but time of day.  I know Hutchinson use to have to wait around 6hours sometimes before his machines would work. ???
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 10, 2008, 11:53:13 PM
We must identify the source of energy first. If magnetism can some manipulate gravity or the Earths own magnetic
field the we may get something.
Well, antenna does not receive anything. It is staying in a higher potential field acting as a terminal on a battery. The energy is taken from everywhere it can be taken, even via matter disintegration.

I know it's hard to grasp this concept, but do you really know what IS energy that is running via your power outlet? Nobody really knows that. What is important is POTENTIAL. Well, the MOSFET pulsing creates the required potential - there is nothing you should worry about beside that. If you place two concentric antennas, both will have differing potentials relative to kicker coils. So, you may not even need ground if you use two antennas - it is much like Otto's mebius wires, but I think you do not need to connect them that way: simply assume that larger antenna is higher potential, smaller (inner) antenna is lower potential. The energy will find its way from higher to lower. The air gap between the antennas is a wrong way, so the energy will flow via wire you may use to connect two antennas. And then you can take some energy from the flow.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 11, 2008, 12:45:53 AM
@all

Here is some simple physics. Theoretical physics used to be a hobby of mine, I enjoyed it as much as I do Soduku. In reality, it was a mental game almost exactly like soduku, in that you are given a few clues which have to line up in a particular manner to solve the puzzle, and that something out of place affects the whole puzzle. Bluntly stated: PHYSICS IS NOT A SOLVED PUZZLE AND PIECES ARE OUT OF PLACE.

For instance, the arguments here over energy..... The term is much used an abused, and by itself has a nebulous meaning. It is used to refer to a multitude of forces, put simply energies. Though related, these energies are NOT the same energy and therefore cannot be treated as the same.

Therefore, statements made like "You cannot get more energy out of a system than you put in" are generic and relatively meaningless. Put extremely bluntly, at the time that law of thermodynamics was conceived, mechanical energy was king (I include thermal with this statement as thermal energy IS mechanical energy.).

Are you extremely certain that a law designed for, and true in respect of mechanical energy even applies or can be truthfully applied to unrelated forms of energy?

Simple question, with an even simpler answer. Much of physics has this type of illogic attached, that is why it is a former hobby of mine. A Soduku puzzle which is flawed having no solution is worthless to me.

Paul

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: nickle989 on April 11, 2008, 12:56:29 AM
@ all ...

Yes .. finally some with like minds ...

totally sine waves..

As Tesla mentioned non hertazin waves ... I take his meaning to be non square waves.... (of course I could be misinterpetting him but ...) was the better energy source.

In nature I have not seen very many Square of anything ... except for some crystals ie .. right angles.  Most of everything in nature from birds, to cells, sun rays and the like travels in a sine wave like way ... even on the atomic level travel is in a wave.  Nature always tries to find a balance before it needs to destruct.

Collision of DC waves are very distructive but when you collide sine waves you get a magnification of power before the destruction.  By collecting the energy around us to a collective point to say over-balanced the power and then let nature take it course ... and then collect that energy.  Not sure if that makes sense to anyone.

This is the direction that my power research has taken me.  I first started to notice effects of this nature with bob boyce torid power design but this used dc.  Hydrogen still is the focus for me .. but I have now been on a quest for a better power source.

I hope I will be able to post some results sooner then later.

Great job folks ... keep up the idea's no matter how crazy it may seem ... the unconcieus mind does not play tricks but stays true and the small voice is the one to listen to ... at least it has worked for me.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 11, 2008, 12:57:31 AM
I am somewhat in shock. Just a mere matter of several hours, and this thread has had over 600 reads! Wow. I never thought so many would even be interested. Kewl. I hope everyone is gaining something from it.

Before the thread goes way off-topic, please read the initial post before posting so that all are on the same page. I have seen this happen in so many other threads, and must apologize as I have been guilty to some extent of this myself.

Paul

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: MACEDONIA CD on April 11, 2008, 01:06:47 AM
HI

I READ THIS   and   is said this  whit pulse  we dont have rotation elktromotiv force
the pulse   frekfency  is <<not real frekfency  <like you have   dc v  and you  <<make on  and off >..THAT IS NOT FREKFENCY
YES otto   ONLY SINUS   FREKFENCY  IS REAL FREKFENCY
THE <<NIKOLA TESLA  >>HE FIND  LONG TIME AGO   HOW  TO  MAKE   ROTATION  ELKTROMAGNET FILD     WHIT SINUS  FREK

BUT HOW  ...   LETS SAY  YU HAVE 50 HZ  IN SOME ELKTRO MOTOR   AND  PUSH  50 HZ INSAID THE MOTOR   THE ROTOR  WHILL NOT  START TO SPIN    BUT   <,NIKOLA TESLA  IS  FIND THE WAY  TO  MAKE SPIN THE ROTOR    WHIT   SINUS  50 HZ ELKTROMAGNET FILD
HMMMMM
THIS  50 HZ IS LIKE YOU  PUT  V   IN THE RAID SAID OF THE COIL  AND   IN THE LEFT SAID OF THE COIL     AND THE PROCES   IS  50 TIMES  IN JUST ONE SECOND
AND  WE  BE SAID NOW  THE  ROTOR   THERE  WHILL NOT SPIN IN THE  ONE WAY   <,THAT WHILL BE   VIBRATE   LEFT  AND RIGHIT SAID
BUT  THE TESLA  IS FIND THE     PRINCIP  OF  PUT  PROPERLY  COILS  TOGETHER   IN THAT WAY  TO MAKE  SPIN  IN THE  ONE WAY
IMAGEN  THIS 50 HZ     ...''''   HAS  1000 RMP SPEED
IMAGEN   THIS  100 HZ      HAS   2000 RMP   AND ATHER    CONTINUES

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 11, 2008, 02:42:36 AM
@all

This is somewhat frustrating, and working with the premise that a picture is worth a thousand words, so later tonight, when I have some actual free time, I will set up my 555 and show you all the sines produced by square waves.......... That is also why I state outright that the windings have to be bifiliar, otherwise you need to add a capacitor  in parallel with each control coil as the capacitance HAS to be present, to use DC.

Concerning Mosfets

It is already assumed that a mosfet power stage is used (I want to hit the controls with at least half an amp, not the piddly 200ma my 555 can source.). However, a mosfet, or other transistor, will reproduce the signal applied. If you hit it with square waves, it will produce square waves.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 11, 2008, 03:54:56 AM
Instead of winding three control windings covering different portions of the tpu od would it work out better to have three windings wound around the whole circumference that are next to each other.  Route the feed from the pass filter so that there is a directional shift of energy with each set of turns representing a pole.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: infringer on April 11, 2008, 07:39:06 AM
If there are interactions with the earths magnetic fields...

Would not the orientation of the coil(s), pulse phases, angle seeing how the earth is slightly tilted..
be a roleplayer in this setup... I never payed close close attention but do they keep the coil facing
in a certain direction during operation? (Kinda why I started the observation collective effort thread)
Why does there appear to be a slight angle on one of the coils in Jack Durbans video release?

Curiousity for me but if the earth interacts with this mochine would it not be a mitagating factor?

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 11, 2008, 08:54:55 AM
Instead of winding three control windings covering different portions of the tpu od would it work out better to have three windings wound around the whole circumference that are next to each other.  Route the feed from the pass filter so that there is a directional shift of energy with each set of turns representing a pole.
Sounds pretty logical. In Tesla's patent we see 4 windings around circumference. I thought that you can actually use any number of them.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 11, 2008, 08:57:08 AM
It is already assumed that a mosfet power stage is used (I want to hit the controls with at least half an amp, not the piddly 200ma my 555 can source.). However, a mosfet, or other transistor, will reproduce the signal applied. If you hit it with square waves, it will produce square waves.
Otto's MOSFETs exhibit avalanche performance, so on every square wave attack front they produce a saw-tooth instead, with a gross spike (~400V).
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: otto on April 11, 2008, 11:15:30 AM
Hello all,

@Aley

In that times I had nice kicks at the start of each square wave at OK, 400V.

As I hope that Im now a little bit cleverer, Im working with high voltage sine waves. I know that you all know the Tesla patent 381 970. I also was "familiar" with this patent. Then I made a hand drawing of the shown picture to really understand, made a few other drawings......now I wonder why I have to pay for my electricity.

Otto
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 11, 2008, 11:29:14 AM
Im working with high voltage sine waves.
How's progress going? Well, I do not believe you can achieve anything overunity with just sinewaves, or just square waves be them high voltage or low voltage without high spikes - if that wasn't the case almost every DC motor with a driver would exhibit overunity - if you are unaware, rotation speed of DC motors can be regulated by means of square waves with varying duty cycle. I believe abrupt spiking is a very important thing in this whole business - and I've shown the reason for this (Dirac delta function is a model of such spike, and when applied to acoustics it means much more).
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: otto on April 11, 2008, 11:40:22 AM
Hello all,

@Aleks

I agree. Not with ONLY sines or squares!!

I really didnt want to post this but......hmmmmm a few days ago I had HV sines with kicks on top of the sines. From my power supply 12V/ miliamperes. I have to say that I used my profi made PS. I mixed the frequencies and in just a short moment I saw that my voltmeter on the PS showed me the maximal voltage and then I saw a lot of smoke from my power supply. Nothing touched, just mixed frequencies. I had a runaway but this time only a voltage runaway, to say so. My PS is burned. My MOSFETS and everything OK. At the runaway I didnt see that the current rised. Just the voltage. All fuses OK.

I know that the output signal from a TPU is sine waves + kicks sitting on them. Such signals I saw before my "success".

Why always in my little garage such "successes"??? Better I would make something else.

Otto
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 11, 2008, 11:51:41 AM
I know that you all know the Tesla patent 381 970. I also was "familiar" with this patent.
Well, you should have noted that Tesla uses brushes. During motor rotation they produce spikes (sparkles) - much like from your MOSFETs. These spikes are pulsing thinner coils that are arranged in two-phase manner. Collectors (thick coils) are also arranged in two-phase manner. Due to nature of this motor/brush system the spikes produced on the thinner coils are mostly RANDOM with a frequency bump that depends on the frequency of the motor.

So, one of the possible arrangements would be producing spikes by means of pulse density modulation with probability distribution leaning toward the required frequency (60 or 50 Hz). This means that the "driver" should not be a simple square wave generator or 3 of them working in logical AND manner, but a random probability-distributed (frequency-wise) 1bit noise amplified to 400V - well, if MOSFET delivers avalanche performance you won't need to amplify the control signal itself that much. Simply MOSFET will be discharging at random times in concord with that probability-distributed 1 bit noise. This will create a lot of RE potential wavelets that - when summed - will replicate the frequency embedded into the probability distribution.

On another thought, motor/brush system may exhibit some frequency bump, but it is minimal. However, random spiking is still possible. When you integrate the voltage over time, you won't see them, but it does not mean they are not present physically. If that's the case it means each control coil should be driven by noise generator - well, actually both IN and OUT of the control coil should be modulated by noise. It's just a possible variant of this TPU device. I wonder if anybody tried to run this TPU device with uncorrelated HV noise in each control coil. Well, this is of course crazy idea - I'm not sure it may even work.

Noise gate is a transistor whose gate is modulated by random signal so that voltage across the noise gate changes between 12V and 0V. Since there are 2 noise gates driving a coil, the voltage will go randomly from one side to the other. What this brings I do not know, but from simple calculus the RMS voltage across the coil will be 3 dB higher than across noise gates. Of course, I do not even know if the noise signal can be efficiently utilized to do work. (noise gate is not audio noise gate which gates noise, by noise gate I mean gate modulated by broadband noise signal)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 11, 2008, 12:10:40 PM
Why always in my little garage such "successes"??? Better I would make something else.
Maybe try to completely decouple collector and control? Just imagine you've connected your control coil to wall outlet. It will burn together with your PS. I believe the same happens when you "tune" your circuitry. Decoupling means control circuitry should not share ground with collector, it should be ungrounded or the surplus energy will flow both paths, through the control circuitry as well. Maybe also try to use "antenna" approach I've mentioned meaning you should not connect collector with the control circuitry via wires. Note that Tesla's power loads on that patent are also not wire-connected with the pulsing coils - induction is in use.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on April 11, 2008, 05:51:41 PM
@Otto: I hate that you've lost so much equipment, but in a way that's actually a good thing - you can't burn out testers if you aren't experimenting. All the gear you've fried speaks volumes about how much time and thought you are putting into this! You are a huge inspiration to me.

I am really glad to see that folks here are considering the Tesla patent again. I'm pretty well convinced that this is what SM actually built, taking all of his clues together. Almost all of the rest of his story supports this conclusion, if you look at it objectively. Like tuning his "delay coil" - this is something that would have been needed only if he were using a single input source and was trying to split it evenly between two outputs (thus eliminating the commutator). Or his statement about "100 years before anyone found the frequency" - it had been right at a hundred years since Tesla's patent when SM built his units. There's plenty of other parallels if one cares to step back and think with an open mind. Too many parallels to ignore, IMHO.

The Tesla device used AC sine wave input (from the generator) timed and split using a commutator (as close as he could get to square waves). The benefit of square waves is the fast rise time, which "kicks" the flow around the core. The system would run with gain when "ringing", and the output would be AC sine with a possible DC component. When properly tuned, the opposing vortexes created by toroidal influences would also be present. Much of this is first-year EE stuff, applied in a unique and practical fashion. Think outside the box!

I did my first build similar to the Tesla patent with no core and got interesting but unremarkable results. My current build will be a much more faithful reproduction and should produce better results. As I promised before, I will post a video when I have something to show. Everyone here owes it to themselves to print off copies of patents 381,970 and 382,282 and study them for a few days. The two are almost identical, but the differences also tell something too.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: eldarion on April 11, 2008, 07:45:00 PM
Regarding Tesla's patents, I have been looking into them for a little while, but in relation to the MAGVID, not the TPU--these two devices seem to operate on nearly the same principles.

I am pretty sure that whoever interpreted the MAGVID text got the coil diagram wrong!  I tried it as depicted and no rotating field was set up--it would not even spin a bar magnet.  The correct diagram would seem to be exactly like the TPU and Tesla's patent (and also his Egg of Columbus experiment--see attached)--this altered depiction matches the text perfectly.

I am currently attempting to build the device set forth, but with one difference--Tesla designed that device to run at very low frequencies, around 40-60Hz or so.  If you try to feed higher frequencies into the device, that iron-wire core will start to absorb all the input energy.  I will try two different setups, one air-core (which I don't think will work because the independent fields may not mix properly to set up a rotating field in the middle of the device) and one with a large HF powdered iron core.  Alll will be four-coil, two-phase driven.  After the rotating field is set up properly, I have a bunch of experiments to run on that field, which I'll post here after I do them. :)

Hopefully this way we can clear up a bunch of the hype surrounding fast rotating magnetic fields once and for all! ;D

Eldarion

EDIT: The forum would not let me attach the PDF file here, so here is a link to it: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item31
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 11, 2008, 07:58:25 PM
Hopefully this way we can clear up a bunch of the hype surrounding fast rotating magnetic fields once and for all! ;D
Well, I hope so :) Thanks for your devotion to this topic in general, it's always interesting to see new findings along these lines!
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: giantkiller on April 11, 2008, 08:11:27 PM
Quote
ALL THREE FREQUENCIES ARE FED INTO A SINGLE WIRE SIMULTANEOUSLY. You will learn why below.

3. How to feed the necessary frequencies to the appropriate coils, and do so using feedback from the output.

This hit me like a thunderbolt. Since the output is pulsed DC, at three frequencies, all that is required to "tap" the output is a blocking diode, with a resistor or thermistor to limit current to the control coils. This IS FED TO A THREE WAY CROSSOVER, which splits one signal into three, and routes said signals to the appropriate control coil inputs!!!!!!!!!!

I THOUGHT THAT STUPID "CONTROL" IN THE CENTER OF THE 17" TPU LOOKED FAMILIAR!

The oscillator circuits feed three mosfets, each connected by matched resistors to positive, fed through diodes into a single wire into the crossover. ALL TPU CIRCUIT GROUNDS ARE SHARED.

SM flips 2 switches on the SM17 stating freq 1, freq 2.
I got to know.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: hydrocontrol on April 11, 2008, 08:25:26 PM
Why not just take a 3-phase motor and replace its rotor with a coil? Guess it won't work, because this overunity FX is not about rotating mag field. Rotating mag field may cause ether inertia effects to manifest, but do you really think it produces electric potential higher than what you have on your coils?

When I read this something just clicked about the (mythical Pierce Arrow) car that Tesla had a 'specially' built electric motor. What if the motor coils were actually wound like a TPU and the 'control' box of vacuum tubes generated the frequencies and timing. This would be equivalent to the spinning compass inside the TPU showing a magnetic vortex but on a much larger scale. Just something to think about.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: giantkiller on April 11, 2008, 08:45:54 PM
Instead of winding three control windings covering different portions of the tpu od would it work out better to have three windings wound around the whole circumference that are next to each other.  Route the feed from the pass filter so that there is a directional shift of energy with each set of turns representing a pole.

Could be quickly run with 3 lead ribbon cable.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: AhuraMazda on April 11, 2008, 09:02:53 PM

This may explain the kicks:
http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/indkick.html

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 11, 2008, 09:29:37 PM
This may explain the kicks:
http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/indkick.html
I do not see caps in Otto's schematic whereas the above explanation is based on capacitor?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 12, 2008, 02:05:51 AM
Instead of winding three control windings covering different portions of the tpu od would it work out better to have three windings wound around the whole circumference that are next to each other.  Route the feed from the pass filter so that there is a directional shift of energy with each set of turns representing a pole.

Could be quickly run with 3 lead ribbon cable.

--giantkiller.

Yes or 6 ribbon with 6 oscillators and two 3channel crossovers.  Frequency one and frequency two.

@ Paul
You recognized a device/devices SM used.  Would it be the 2 identical looking devices in the center of his big TPU?

Another thing I notice when SM is taking his meter readings is that they read at all.  I get my digital amprobe near anything with acoustic frequency and it goes nuts as well as the rack shack multimeter from the 90's.    A quick test for a bad rectifier bridge or shorted winding in an automotive alternator is to put an ac ammeter around the output lead at full load and read the amount of dc ripple,  but most alternators are putting out at about 400hz.  At 5khz the meter just starts beeping and scrolling jibberish.  My digital multimeter starts doing the same and I haven't even touched the leads.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: infringer on April 12, 2008, 02:43:03 AM
Man without the snazzi equipments and scopes or oscillators I suppose I am at a loss...

I wish this were able to be tested without all that equipment so I too could join in I aint no EE but I've done some soldering and can figure out somethings as I go.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: nickc44 on April 12, 2008, 03:45:36 AM
@All

not waves or squares but quick spikes

That is probably why noise is good

Nick
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on April 12, 2008, 03:51:14 AM
I keep bringing people to the edge of a cliff - hoping they will jump - they never do.

If they did jump - they would see that  there was no cliff  - it is only an illusion - and they wuld be free from it.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on April 12, 2008, 04:13:54 AM
yep   ::)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: agentgates on April 12, 2008, 06:05:28 AM
> First, I thunk I have had a mental breakthrough, and so I shall share the concept. IT IS BASED UPON MR MARKS OWN WORDS... IE the clues were there all along.

Indeed, it was there all along... I made the same discovery weeks ago. I am watching this website for a month or two and I was doing my own research on my own. My original plan was to finish my research then document everything from the first steps to the last when I have something in my hand. However, as I can see that it has changed a little bit since you created this topic, but not quite well... :-) There are also many things that I can add to the above mentioned thoughts, or solving the "self destruction effect" or isolate the radiation issues, work around the legal problems with UEC, make it more secure, more simple, etc.

When I first read what you guys are doing and watched the videos I had something else in my head that I wanted to disclose at once. Hopefully it will tell you more, but I found a topic where another guy did the same and others were a bit nasty with him why sharing his ideas without photos, videos or other "evidences". (Why? However, as far as I can remember he was very close to that I wanted to share with you) So I changed my mind and I decided to leave you with your ideas and I will make my experiment on my own and I will disclose everything when I have the necessary experiments to talk about.

I am very sorry that I couldn't join the team months or years earlier. I just found this website about 2 months ago and it was a long time to study all your posts (there is a lot) to understand what you are guys doing. Then I discovered a topic where somebody collected Mr Mark's own words and later I found a pdf and eventually the famous "TPU-FAQ" that people eager to refer to but neither google nor yahoo nor other search engines could dig up by these keywords. :-D

Anyway, I was keep reading your posts and I have to be honest: I am feeling ashamed because I still don't understand what these "double loops" or other things are. People were talking about Tesla coils, pulses, gaps, rotating fields the first thing flashed into my brain is stepper motors, but I didn't want to "step" forward and dabble in anything until I read everything and understood the basic concepts.

Then a miracle... Suddenly I found Mr. Mark's "first" description (unfortunately I didn't even know that it exists out here) about his continuous "Tesla pulses" and rotating magnetic field.

It made perfect sense to me related to my stepper-motor-idea. My second thought was an online supplier to order a few various of stepper motor drivers. They have been already made for making rotating magnetic fields by pulses.

However then I read many stepper motor driver data sheets I didn't find them customizable for research tasks. I was missing alterable overlapping, variable number of phases, wide frequency range, etc. I was calculating with max 10 phases I want to try out such a device around 100MHz master frequency to acquire 10MHz on each channel. I was inquiring at the manufacturer, the fastest they had was for 30MHz. I didn't want to mess the time to wait for other orders if they fail. Therefore I decided to build one from logic gates thus I can vary them and be sure if the frequencies are always synchronized - as they are always with stepper motor drivers.

There were some problems wont let me still. Self destruction, radiation, safety requirements, usage in practical applications and the difficulty to make it (yes it is still overcomplicated).

The best way to investigate, read again the closest we have as many times as possible: The Inventors Words. Thus I read Mr Mark's words again related to that certain 5kHz DC and the frequencies and his posts again carefully.

The first question arose Gentleman: why is it getting RAPIDLY hot? I mean RAPIDLY as it's been described.

The second: What would happen to a combustion engine if the ignition is too late or too early? If it is in delay the combustion will not be perfect, the semi-burned gasses will leave the combustion chamber, the power we put out is reduced. What would happen if it is too early? The "knocking" engine effect because the combustion starts before the piston is beginning to move down by inertia and it's trying to make some space to itself by moving the piston. Then power loss and rapid overheating follows. Yes, rapid overheating...

Gentleman,

I can not imagine any combustion motor that can be driven precisely with any "external" ignition system that's just roughly synchronized even at low revolution. At some types of engines only a half of degree can cause significant change in the power or heat dissipation or either capable to stop or destroy the engine.

Then just think of that what can be the speed of our electrons in our TPUs... and they are being driven by our inaccurate oscillators... I am not wondering they're destroying themselves after awhile.

I started studying the videos again and listening carefully each words and even the small information. He mentioned that the output voltage is varying. This can be attributed to the above mentioned effect, when your electrons are running in your wire at high speed, their driving pulses are coming a bit behind them accelerating them with others and once in their happiest moments a stupid solid state oscillator's starting to hit them in the intermediate phase or worse, before. Your high speed electrons will impact where they can, in your wires.

This can also explain what happened to the TV (Mr Mark has mentioned a TV explosion in his email). The control electronics went out of phase (certainly poor design) and happened what had to happen. All the high speed electrons found metal objects.

Yes, I am careful but hesitating a with the statement that this device maybe doesn't need the Earth to operate, merely interfering with Earth's magnetic field when we think that the anomalies are caused by the Earth itself. (e.g. upside-down-problem) What I think this device is a particle accelerator where we make electron flows by pulses, waves or whatever.

Take a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCHPo3EA7oE
(note the video after 2:00)

I don't know that if these "kicks" have anything to do with Earth's magnetic field, but for example our switched-mode power supplies are working by the Earth's magnetic field? We have many devices far from Earth. Do they use this concept in any part?

Ok, this is it for now, it is 4:38 in the morning, I have to go to sleep. I'll come back tomorrow to continue with probably more exciting thoughts.

I don't know if I told anything new yet, but certainly I will tomorrow and in the next couple of days when I completed some other experiments.

I don't want to puzzle anybody if they are walking on their own way, it is never a problem. The more creative people, the more aspects, the more we can use or either throw out. The matter is, here we can find each others thoughts that we can add to or remove from. Think in that whether how many friends Tesla had who helped him to work out so many invents he had?

Gentleman, my request would be, let us use each others knowledge without insulting each other, this is our unique advantage. :-)

Kind Regards
Tony
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: infringer on April 12, 2008, 06:48:29 AM
aye men to that one Tony....

Interesting story I read ...Related? You Decide...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m4PRN/is_2008_Feb_4/ai_n24246751

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Charlie_V on April 12, 2008, 08:01:52 AM
Hey guys, this is an interesting subject and I'm confused on so many things.  Firstly, I've "mixed" two signals together before, I got a beat pattern.  I'm not sure what three signals mixed on the same line would do but I assume it would be similar to a screwed up beat pattern?  Anyway, I've also taken a quartz crystal resonator (QCR) and driven it with overtones (harmonics I guess would be the more correct term) and what I call "undertones", which are "sub-harmonics?" of the resonant frequency (i.e. res freq = 5k, first undertone = 2.5k).  The QCR would ring to both over and under tones, but the fundamental had the highest amplitude.  My point is, is this what you are trying to do?  How do these waves look like a phase shift?  A phase shift is completely different from a signal mixing - right?  I do know that phase shifts will cause standing waves, adding another frequency to a standing wave will cause it to be a moving standing wave (aka the nodes will no longer be fixed).  I am pretty stupid so could you explain what mixing the signals will do?  Are you doing what I did with a QCR but with a coil? Hitting it with 3 harmonic frequencies and trying to get it to ring?  Although you guys said there were 3 coils, so do all 3 coils get fed the same three frequencies or is each coil at a different frequency and their magnetic fields are what mixes?  Gah, so confused! ???

I don't really know anything about what your trying to do, maybe high self capacitance is something you want.  I'm only trying to help in that last paragraph since you guys were talking about making your coils ring.  I'm probably misunderstanding what you were talking about though.

Charlie
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 12, 2008, 08:19:04 AM
Then just think of that what can be the speed of our electrons in our TPUs... and they are being driven by our inaccurate oscillators... I am not wondering they're destroying themselves after awhile.

Before creating a self-regulating pulsing one should at first separate coil pulses and Nessie "kicks". This means that each pulse should produce a detectable kick. After this has been achieved the control circuitry can be improved by measuring time between kicks and firing pulses when necessary.

As you have noticed, Nessie kicks (those sine-wave segments) are pretty wide in comparison to the kick. It means if you pulse too quickly, these segments will overlap leading to an ever increasing potential and to destruction. Of course, if kicks are too distant from each other, no constant oscillation is created and you are left with nothing.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: agentgates on April 12, 2008, 10:47:10 AM
@infringer

Interesting article. What is the principal of this device? (I am still struggling to find a website)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: agentgates on April 12, 2008, 11:27:39 AM
@aleks

I think you misunderstood.  :)

I try to add to my previous comment. For example, we have n driving coil segments on a single collector wire, which has equivalent number (n) of segments. We are certainly able to pick up those kicks somehow directly from the n-1 collectors, or if it's failing we can still pick them up by e.g. hall effect sensors. The idea is very similar to the principal of coil guns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coilgun) where you have n coils after each other and you fire them when sensors can pick up the object in the barrel before their coils. If you swap the optical detectors to e.g. hall effect sensors and interconnect the end of your coil gun, you got a self-controlled TPU.

Neither frequencies nor pulse widths nor complex control circuits nor radiations, etc. will cause anymore headache. Minimum components you need: wires, n sensors, n MOSFETs, MOSFET drivers and a starting circuit that can be either a piezoelectric disk. You give it a push, the device will spin up and operate itself always on the best performance without any risks, even if the anomaly is related to Earth's magnetic field, even if it's suddenly changing or you turn the device upside down. I can not imagine more simple and painless way to operate it in practical applications like homes, vehicles, whole industries, or directly in portable devices like mobile phones, laptops, tools, etc.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 12, 2008, 11:55:20 AM
I think you misunderstood.  :)
It seems we all are not understanding each other. Hope, this won't be so for too long as we are doomed to find the least common denominator here.

Please understand my concept on picture.

Control coil runs high-voltage or high-current saw-tooth pulses. This produces Dirac delta spikes (transients) in phonon (acoustic) space, which automatically produce DC acoustic (gravity) potential field around the control coil. This potential field's intensity changes over time in gaussian curve shape - these are 'Nessie kicks' that represent potential field with unlimited energy meaning you may suck as much energy as you need without this potential field fading away. Of course, this field fades away by itself, so you need to support it by pulsing.

Collector coil is only used to take benefit from this potential field. The closer the collector coil or ring to the control coil, the higher the potential is on the collector coil. You also need a coil placed at a distance (but not too far) which works as a lower potential collector coil. You then need to interconnect these collector coils by placing desired load between them.

Collector coil is of course a collector wire. Otto uses a thick wire for collector.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 12, 2008, 12:00:14 PM
Here is what fast pulsing produces

"Nessie" kicks overlap and give an extremely fast rise to the potential field.

Pic below merey shows a sequence leading to DC voltage output. However, if "Nessie" kicks are even more frequent, the mentioned fast rise may occur leading to various destructive consequences.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 12, 2008, 01:26:42 PM
One more thing. If you study how Otto's collector coil is winded. Otto describes it as 'mebius' coil, however at a closer study it looks as depicted.

In reminded me of antenna shown in the second pic (the antenna is better to be 3D, with a bit of elevation toward center).
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 12, 2008, 01:53:59 PM
The pulse traveling through the wire will go round and round.  With a very weak magnetic field going round and round with it.  On the inside of the coil this sets up a  swirling magnetic field.  It takes the Earth's weak magnetic field and gets it swirling.  The collector coil is surrounded by this swirling magnetic field.
The collector coil is moving at no less than 60,000 mph relavant to the aether.
The magnetic swirling field is created in the aether and is not confined to the wires of the kick coil.  So what happens when a conductor is MOVED across a magnetic field.  Go back to your first science class on electricity with the wire and the bar magnet.  The teacher moved the wire through the bar magnet and the lightbulb flashed.  Now imagine your teacher moving the wire at 60,000 mph.
I think the lightbulb might have burnt out if not exploded.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 12, 2008, 02:32:04 PM
Go back to your first science class on electricity with the wire and the bar magnet.
There is no ether in contemporary science. But there is conservation of energy. All your 'waving' around coil is returned back to the circuitry (self-inductance) or dissipated as heat. We should consider a genuinely new phenomenon, or forget about these TPUs once and for all.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on April 12, 2008, 03:44:49 PM
and another thread goes down the crapper...
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: agentgates on April 12, 2008, 03:46:13 PM
@aleks

Thanks for the short summary, your time and the drawings, I barely understand your aspect however I'd like to support it by experiments as well. (Of course not because I don't believe it but I'd like to get closer to it for study)

I'm going to dig myself into it ASAP (when my supplier finally delivering the new faster MOSFETs ordered on Monday >:( )

Have a nice day to all.  ;)

Regards
Tony
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 12, 2008, 04:03:12 PM
@alecks

Perhaps the we need a torroidal magnetic field because the circle within the donut has no alternative than to cross the magnetic field.   I agree that the frequencys and all the rest of the waves and hetrodyning and feedback are just creating an energy field which collides with the collector winding.  The exciter field has to happen fast and then linger.  If the field is not generated quickly your collector winding gets there before anything happens.  If it does not result in a temporary form of matter there will be no collision with the collector coil as the energy just collapses back into the kick winding.
What elses happens is that the magnetic field when current is drawn now comes into play with the exciter field.  We now have collision of two magnetic fields in the space between the two windings with nothing to absorb this energy, so you get heating and radiant energy.  Like SM said this thing needs heat sinking but if you start putting metal around the kick windings the exciter field is going to be too slow.  This may be an unsurmountable problem and is why we don't see SM's tpu on the shelves of homedepot.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 12, 2008, 04:15:11 PM
Perhaps the we need a torroidal magnetic field because the circle within the donut has no alternative than to cross the magnetic field.
Once again, Otto's circuit (see photo) has no closed toroid, and it seems that his logical AND square wave circuitry does not produce a sequential pulsing of control coils - they are pulsed more like 1 3 2 3 1 1, etc. in a cyclic manner, depending on the individual square wave frequencies.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 12, 2008, 05:03:01 PM
Paul described the tpu in terms of an alternator.  He didn't include a voltage regulator beyond fusing which I believe is necessary.  Perhaps a saturable core inductor or something to that effect.  What he did describe was interaction of the field excited by the kick or control windings acting like the rotor in an alternator and the collector the output windings of the alternator.  What I am saying is that the prime mover in this alternator is the Earth itself.  The exciter field is not produced by steel that is traveling in the inertial frame of the Earth.  It is produced in the fabric of space time itself which the Earth is traversing.  Call it what you want aether, ambient magnetic field, space time continuom,
low frequency waves,  it's everywhere.  The Earth drags the collector winding across this wrinkle produced by the exciter windings and energy is transferred from the Earth's inertial frame to the collector winding.
Paul also described a means to feedback energy from the output to the exciter field which is I feel is quite ingenious.  This isn't like the slowmotion alternators Westinghouse has been making for the last 100years or so.
It is necessary to get the exciter field out there fast and in the right form before the ouput winding gets there.
By use of his filters he extracts the exciter frequencies that are already in the ouput.  To get this tpu to work it isn't a matter of feeding dc at varying current levels.  Like SM said (wish the f**k he had made a couple of blueprints of this design instead of some homegrown videos) it is knowlege of the frequencys and how they interact.
I also suggest that the spacing between the kick windings and the collector coils is a major design consideration we have no idea about.  It is definitely a loose wrap (I allude to the vibrating wire noise).  This parameter is more important than the placement of the kick windings around the collector.  The geometric and dielectric parameters of this space determines when and how the collector winding relates to the exciter winding.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 12, 2008, 05:34:47 PM
That's the reason I think SM's knowledge is useless - he provided no plans, no component types and no component values. Unuseful bla'blaing - there is a lot of such type of guys on the net. Otto's plans should be used as a ground I think now, even if they were inspired by SM. The idea I have is that energy is not 'transferred' from Earth or Sun, or Moon, etc. It is created by means of potential field produced by the saw-tooth HV pulses. It's a totally different thing.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: giantkiller on April 12, 2008, 05:46:16 PM
and another thread goes down the crapper...

I guess we need more rolls of toilet paper than coils.

I guess the headaches are from stress and not high speed emmissions. Didn't Tesla see the big blue ones blow men off their feet and kill them.
What's a little headache among techies, eh?

Thanks for mentioning the 'trap'.

--giantkiller.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on April 12, 2008, 06:55:19 PM
That's the reason I think SM's knowledge is useless - he provided no plans, no component types and no component values. Unuseful bla'blaing - there is a lot of such type of guys on the net. Otto's plans should be used as a ground I think now, even if they were inspired by SM. The idea I have is that energy is not 'transferred' from Earth or Sun, or Moon, etc. It is created by means of potential field produced by the saw-tooth HV pulses. It's a totally different thing.

that's just crap. pretty tired of this dissing SM all the time. all these f@#\$king threads wouldn't be here if it wasn't for SM. give your head a shake man.

use your grey matter and put the SM clues and grumpy's, spherics', et al insights together. there is something there based on all this, and it's not down the otto/gk path.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 12, 2008, 07:01:38 PM
I hate to cloud this thread (grumpy gets pissed and rightly so) but it is important to realize that the pack of atoms we call Earth, ourselves included,  moves at a pretty good clip relative to other forms of energy running inertial tracks of a different magnitude. Blink your eyes and you are 15kilometers or more from where you were when you started blinking your eyes relative to the Sun.  And you moved in at least 3 different directions also. The idea is to toss a baseball in front of a speeding train and get it back with a lot more energy in it then when it was sitting in our glove.  Nasa has been doing it since the 70's slingshotting spacecraft from one inertial field to the other around the solar system.  We should be able to do it in the space between two windings.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 12, 2008, 08:59:50 PM
use your grey matter and put the SM clues and grumpy's, spherics', et al insights together. there is something there based on all this, and it's not down the otto/gk path.
Rotating magnetic fields and 'extraction of energy from Earth's magnetic field' do not make sense to me. It is exactly Otto's path (and my deductions about DC acoustic waves) which makes at least some sense and Dirac delta spikes and their spectral content which includes DC component.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 12, 2008, 09:02:34 PM
Blink your eyes and you are 15kilometers or more from where you were when you started blinking your eyes relative to the Sun.
The fact that Earth's ether whirl passed 15 km on its orbit in a second does not mean a whirl you are creating in TPU didn't move and was left behind by 15 km. It's a principle of relativity. Small whirl inside a large whirl moves together with a large whirl. This principle actually has a more general view if you perceive it as a sum of sine-wave oscillations. Oscillation with a higher amplitude always "owns" (carries) less powerful oscillations. Lower frequencies are usually thought as being "base" frequencies for higher frequencies. These frequencies do not mix in a signal - they live their own lives, so to say, but in a field there is always a carrier and a carried something.

Nasa has been doing it since the 70's slingshotting spacecraft from one inertial field to the other around the solar system.
It's a good point. What NASA uses? Planet's gravity. So, we should create gravity as well. This is what I'm trying to say from the time I started to talk about DC acoustic waves, and according to my deduction it is what SM's and Otto's devices actually do: they create gravity/anti-gravity potentials which creates energy much like planet's gravity creates energy for spacecraft. Also note that cold electricity demonstrates destruction of energy.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 12, 2008, 10:57:37 PM
@Alecks

DC acoustical waves or scalar em waves stand still compared to the Earth.  If SM or Tesla for that matter was able to create a scalar emwave then it stands still in 4d and along comes the Earth field, and there is a relavent exchange of energy between the two inertial frames.  A collision of two inertial frames with potential energy stored in each. An accident in the aether.  A magnetic field crossing a conductor.

@all

If the control windings produce a compression of the ambient magnetic field as well as a spin component it starts to resemble what atomic neuclei have and that is a resonant structuring of compression radiation and spin.  The initiation of the exciter windings routine is a major issue that Paul's feedback circuit solves.  If the freqs are appearing in the ouput it is time for another pulse.  I do wonder if downstream of the filters if a small cap and avalanche diode may be needed to square up the wave fronts.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 12, 2008, 11:37:49 PM
If SM or Tesla for that matter was able to create a scalar emwave then it stands still in 4d and along comes the Earth field, and there is a relavent exchange of energy between the two inertial frames.  A collision of two inertial frames with potential energy stored in each. An accident in the aether.  A magnetic field crossing a conductor.
Well, maybe. The scalar wave (or DC acoustic wave) is inertia-less and in this respect it is independent from Earth's inertial system, that's why it can supply energy to Earth's inertial systems (e.g. to free electrons in a collector coil). However, this does not stand true for rotating magnetic fields - they are inertial systems born in Earth's inertial system, they'll cease to exist after transferring all their energy back.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on April 13, 2008, 04:45:54 AM
use your grey matter and put the SM clues and grumpy's, spherics', et al insights together. there is something there based on all this, and it's not down the otto/gk path.

So true, so true.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 13, 2008, 08:28:52 AM
I am sorry this came so late, but "when I have some more free time" has turned out to be now.  :-[

I destroyed my timer circuit getting these..... (the one I was overclocking to almost 5Mhz... grrr . ) I was direct driving it, and a second set of trial photos I was in the process of making with different effects, I just KNEW better than trying to low duty cycle spike it higher frequency.... now I have an awesome function generator, that puts out nice square waves, until you load it in any manner. The the circuit goes screwy. Scrap and build another.

Oh well

Anyway, I was going to demonstrate that square wave input can produce AC sines in a resonant circuit. Understand that the coil is large, with a tiny (I think 10pf if I remember correctly) capacitance, as I want it to act as a resonator. Now to the pics.

First, a pic of the input wave taken at 1volt per division as a reference as to oscillator output.

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/example1/555square1vd.jpg)

Here is the ouput at the same 1volt per division setting:

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/example1/555sinesat1vdiv.jpg)

I lowered the volts per division to more clearly see the pattern:

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/example1/555sines.jpg)

Now, I moved in for a super close up view, to demonstrate what I have been calling a "ghost wave", which is due to the resonance:

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/example1/555sinescloseup.jpg)

These were the sines. With this particular setup, I achieved AC sines, but rather horrid waveforms. Of the pictures I took before this particular circuit blew, I have only one. I adjusted the circuit to demonstrate "kicks with tons of hash"....

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/example1/555pulse.jpg)

I managed to get the pulses, with alot of hash, but nowhere to the extent I was after as I have seen much better. I got the hash, then the circuit blew, so we will have to settle with this for now. I think an AC pulse backfed through a low cycle into my circuit.

Paul

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: infringer on April 13, 2008, 08:49:24 AM
You know what they say better late then never ;)

I'm still awake I know I aint much help but I do appreciate the visuals.

They help me understand a little more at a time just what is all being described.

Keep up the research pauldude and please do post visuals it gives the thread a lot more content.

Thanks
-infringer-
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 13, 2008, 09:11:37 AM
These were the sines. With this particular setup, I achieved AC sines, but rather horrid waveforms.
These results are of course what a resonant low-pass filter may produce. Below is what an 'idealized' -48 dB/oct resonant low-pass filter and a serie of -6 dB/oct high-pass (DC blocking) filters produces when applied to a perfect square wave.

These are obviously not sine-wave segments as noted by Otto. In Otto's case these sine-wave segments "swallow" (replace) MOSFET discharges, they do not look like a filter.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 13, 2008, 10:22:40 AM
@aleks

Simply put, I am not trying to replicate otto's sines. Otto is a bright and resourceful individual whom has his own ideas he is testing. However, I am trying to duplicate what is seen in a video of a small 6" unit, which has no room for complicated massive power sources, or for that matter vacuum tube circuitry. I am trying to replicate SM's unit. SM's unit had to be battery driven, with a VERY small area for oscillator/driver circuit storage. No huge heatsinks are evident which demonstrates conclusively that this unit cannot be a high current circuit driving mosfets. Mosfets come in many flavors, and not all are high current. SM merely remarked that mosfet's or tubes are necessary for their characteristics. However, the small 6" was obviously NOT sine/tube based. If it used sines, they were made with simple compact circuitry, and relatively low voltage/current. I am starting with the square wave approach, and will progress to whatever is necessary within the above parameters if it does not work as mentally envisioned.

I do not understand your reference as to the relevance of the filter. What does it matter what the waves resemble, if they can accomplish the job necessary???? (I am lost on that one, as I do not see the relevance. I think it must be merely a misunderstanding.)

@otto

Please understand that I am not in any manner "dissing" or insulting you with my words above. Much of my current understanding has come from not only SM's words, but your and Roberts efforts, trials, frustrations, and accomplishments, as well as others here such as GK, and Jason, just to name a few. I have respect for you and your accomplishments, and truly would not have the understanding of which I have about this technology and its implications if it were not for your input and concepts.

Thank you.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 13, 2008, 10:38:58 AM
I do not understand your reference as to the relevance of the filter. What does it matter what the waves resemble, if they can accomplish the job necessary???? (I am lost on that one, as I do not see the relevance. I think it must be merely a misunderstanding.)
My idea is that "sine waves" do not come from resonant/reactive behavior of the circuit and its coils. Sine waves appear as a result of some "external" potential field. However, it is circuit that triggers this potential field. This potential field's intensity varies with time and it is this variation that is seen as sine-wave segment. By the way, SM himself tuned his device so that it produces overunity DC current - not a sinewave output. From the vid he also referred to high-freq sinewaves which are of course not really useful for powering applications.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 13, 2008, 10:06:28 PM
My idea is that "sine waves" do not come from resonant/reactive behavior of the circuit and its coils. Sine waves appear as a result of some "external" potential field. However, it is circuit that triggers this potential field. This potential field's intensity varies with time and it is this variation that is seen as sine-wave segment. By the way, SM himself tuned his device so that it produces overunity DC current - not a sinewave output. From the vid he also referred to high-freq sinewaves which are of course not really useful for powering applications.

Paul
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: otto on April 14, 2008, 06:14:11 AM
Hello all,

@Paul

NO PROBLEM!!

How to say people what to do??Hmmm...

Lets try:

The ECD = "primary" coil + "secondary" coil + Mobius = high voltage
Tesla patent shown a few days ago = primary coil + secondary coil + maybe iron core = high voltage
TPU with tubes = primary coil + secondary coil + Mobius = high voltage

In all mentioned coils is a high voltage.

So, if you look at the 3 stack or the others pictures posted by Mannix you have to wind a primary + a secondary coil and then connect them to get a high voltage. And then pulse this "baby" but be careful because this baby can easily be a beast!!

Otto
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 14, 2008, 07:04:31 AM
When the collector coil intersects the pulse field you are going to get a dc pulse in the collector winding that will be effected by the time it takes for the collector to pass through this field.  The collector will advance through this field (or if you prefer) the field will radiate into the collector winding at a rate independent of your pulse signal wave form.  The gain in the collector is the scource of OU.  It comes from the relavent velocity of the collector and the pulse field.   The pulse energy stays in the spacetime coordinates it was generated in.  Time advances and the collector coil is propelled across these coordinates as fast as the Earth's inertial field can get the collector winding there.
The main deal here is the pulse being generated in such a way that the electrons in the kick winding have to time to align with the ambient magnetic field not the bow shock magnetic field of the collector.  This is the off tuning SM talked about.  If the pulse compresses this part of the aether and it cuts across the coil again and creates more bow shock and more pulse compression uh oh.
SONIC BOOM.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 14, 2008, 08:55:41 AM
My idea is that "sine waves" do not come from resonant/reactive behavior of the circuit and its coils. Sine waves appear as a result of some "external" potential field. However, it is circuit that triggers this potential field. This potential field's intensity varies with time and it is this variation that is seen as sine-wave segment. By the way, SM himself tuned his device so that it produces overunity DC current - not a sinewave output. From the vid he also referred to high-freq sinewaves which are of course not really useful for powering applications.
"Sine waves" are result of DC acoustic potential field produced by pulse coils. This DC acoustic potential field affects all surrounding fields and electrons, and so these changes manifest as change in voltage in "sine wave segment" shape on the oscilloscope.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 14, 2008, 10:16:50 AM
That might explain something to me. I used to wonder why Tesla preferred to use a DC voltage  (a DC High voltage dynamo, of which I have pictures of him proudly standing by.) source to supply his testing coils. I had assumed it was mainly for the charging effect on capacitors. I assumed this since a DC voltage is constant, and has a non-varying voltage gradient potential, it gave the capacitors a faster charge time, allowing higher frequency to be achieved.

However, comparative charge times are possible with a slightly higher potential high voltage AC source of low frequency. In an age where diodes were non-existent, and the vacuum tube a relatively new invention (at the time the new-fangled incandescent light bulb), AC generators were cheaper and easier to build. (simpler to wind, commutate,  etc.)

Maybe another approach is to imitate a disruptive discharge to the coils. A high speed voltage dependent gate of some kind? Low resistance high speed high current transistor/mosfet switched off of capacitor/coil feedback voltage and said coil/capacitor resonance tank fed pure DC?

Frequency of operation would be calculated simply through parallel coil/capacitance resonance formulae already utilized. Waves through such a tank would be pulses of said frequency trains (packets of pulses at the design frequency), and much higher energy than could be attained through other direct pulsing means with the same input voltage/current ratio.

The question arises, is there a product suitable for said transistor/mosfet which is capable of the voltage/amperage/switching speed/resistance necessary.

It is not like we are hitting these with hundreds of volts DC/AC, and the cap/ind ratio can be fairly small yielding a low instantaneous joule throughput, UNLIKE a high volt/high capacitance/low inductance tesla primary which may source hundreds of joules at any point in time at the spark gap.. Any ideas?

Better yet, tune the coils to the frequency you desire, hit them with pulsed DC at the frequency you desire, but very low duty cycle (very short "on" time) while the coils are charge by direct DC linkage. Feedback TO the coils is then merely a blocking diode input to each coil off of the collector coil source. However, the collector would have to feed through a voltage divider to run the oscillator circuit, or recharge the source battery. Hmmmm..... This might even be a better way. Resonance in the controls would be relatively pure.

(Resonance, like field rotation is A key, but not the ONLY key. Yes, the control coils would HAVE to resonate. Resonance in itself is a means of energy storage, or amplification, and this is true of both electrical and physical resonance. People, do not forget that there is an ambient "background" electrical field that is actually quite strong considered in volts/meter, and that every magnetic wave has an electric traveling in conjunction with it. The TPU may well be providing somewhat of a "ground" through its operation concerning this field....)

@aleks

Thank you! You reminded me of this, and it may well be the answer, as Tesla aimed to harness this potential field, and you can tap ANY electric field, if you can provide a ground for it. The earth is a giant capacitor, and the field is produced between the Ionosphere and ground, with air as the dielectric. However, this would HAVE to be controlled, as a low resistance or shorted ground for this field (ever heard of a lightning bolt?)........ It would most definitely destroy the apparatus, and provide the destructive magnetic effects described by otto and others if runaway. Any capacitor is a DC battery of a kind, even the earth. Tesla knew this, and I think SM figured it out.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 14, 2008, 10:54:12 AM
--------------->IMPORTANT IMPORTANT<-----------

I am shaking inside as I write this.

premises:

1. There is no such thing as a stationary electron, either it is spinning around an atom, or it is in motion towards an available hole in an electron shell
2. Moving electrons have an associated electromagnetic field.
3. Each electron therefore has its own magnetic field due to its own motion.
4. Magnetic fields either attract or repel each other, depending upon field orientation.
5. Magnetic fields generate electricity in a wire by stripping electrons from electron shells.
6  Nature abhors a vacuum.
7. A voltage gradient due to newly available holes due to stripped electrons exists in the wire.
8. Wires may replenish stripped electrons which exit them, by drawing from surrounding electrons in close proximity to the wire.
9. This replenishment may also be accomplished through any local electric fields in proximity with the wire.

IF THESE ARE ALL TRUE THEN:

SHOUT EUREKA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Imagine a linearly moving magnetic field, whose lines of force are not cutting through, just merely dragging through the outer skin of an inductor (magnetic skin effect towards a wire). As the field drags through the outer skin, the magnetic field affects the fields of the electrons it encounters, which try to orient their fields to the new field. This magnetic field is weak, and merely a few electrons are affected enough to drag them out of their weak bond shell holes. These electrons flow through the wire attracted to and in sync with this magnetic field which is drawing them. The holes must be filled, so electricity flows in from the outside, through static fields already present at decent potential (the ambient field present everywhere on the face of the earth).

NOW IMAGINE THAT THIS FIELD IS A ROTATING FIELD, AND THAT THE FIELD IS NOT SO WEAK, AND WE HAVE JUST CREATED A GROUND (LOCALIZED VOLTAGE IMBALANCE OF LOWER POTENTIAL) FOR THE AMBIENT ELECTRIC FIELD OF THE EARTH!!!!!!!!!!!!

If this is right... THEN WE KNOW WHY THE TPU WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 14, 2008, 11:00:29 AM
NOTE FOR ABOVE POST:

In premise No 9. I forgot to state that the influx of electrons from the field only raises it back to ambient voltage.

NOTE 2:

The TPU is not overunity, and violates no rule of conservation of energy. It draws power from an already present MASSIVE potential energy source!

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 14, 2008, 11:07:05 AM
One last note, for any doubting physics types:

Why be surprised that a small battery can produce such output. It has been both LONG and WELL KNOWN that a small amount of energy can control and direct a much greater amount of energy. Nothing is "produced". Nothing is "destroyed". Charges are merely moved from one place to another. All the "laws" go humming right along, as the TPU violates none.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 14, 2008, 12:10:03 PM
It is not like we are hitting these with hundreds of volts DC/AC, and the cap/ind ratio can be fairly small yielding a low instantaneous joule throughput, UNLIKE a high volt/high capacitance/low inductance tesla primary which may source hundreds of joules at any point in time at the spark gap.. Any ideas?
I think we also need to "fire" a lot of joules per impulse for any serious action. The frequency of impulses can be lowered if each impulse can be made powerful. If Tesla ever got any surplus energy, he should have used spark gap at a low frequency repetition - there were no MOSFETs at that time which could fire 50000 impulses per second like in Otto's experiment. At the same time even in Tesla's times each spark gap impulse could be made powerful to any degree required. Note that spark gap impulses are saw-tooth waves:
(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4638/sparkgapshotzd4.png)
Varying duty cycle in square wave is not the same thing.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 14, 2008, 12:24:21 PM
2. Moving electrons have an associated electromagnetic field.
3. Each electron therefore has its own magnetic field due to its own motion.

From what I've read, electrons have electrostatic charge field. This is like a bulb's light aura which diminishes with distance from the electron's core.

4. Magnetic fields either attract or repel each other, depending upon field orientation.

This does not apply to electron as it does not have a magnetic field. Electron is an electric charge monopole. Electrons always repel each other. What makes them stick to each other in an atom is proton which is lacking one electron charge. But it is not electrons sticking to each other - it is protons nullifying their repelling force that make them able to live close to each other.

Electro-magnetic fields are always a result of photon emission performed by various particle interactions.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 14, 2008, 12:31:18 PM
All the "laws" go humming right along, as the TPU violates none.
It does violate laws of conservation from what I understand (but then a space satellite does it by gaining velocity in planets gravity field). But I do not think you have to be afraid of that. It is dogmatic physicists who should really get scared. From what I've read they were really pissed when such situation happened in the past (do not remember which experiment was it), but then they've invented a neutrino and that gave them a better breath again. If I understand human society correctly 'top' physicists are really exist to protect conservation of energy for elites. Any good physicist will always tell when a 'borderline' is close to be broken (meaning something unexplored seems like producing OU). We have many such 'conspiracy' evidences recorded - just surf the net and see many 'OU' situations where humble inventors were 'locked' in prison or in grave. There are artists/actors who are really working as politicians, and there are physicists (and generally - scientists) who do the same. Such physicists will start to stink if money resources are going into a 'wrong' direction. I hope you understand this social system.

I think OU people should also produce some politic influence. For example, they may need to show perspective of oil stream end, of possible bad crops for biogasoline uses. Bankers will really get scared if they'll try to envision economy collapse resulted from energy resources shortage. They should be more than interested in sustaining economy and thus they should be interested in 'pseudo-science' of this kind. Religious centers should be also very interested, because religion and morality may gain dominance if unlimited energy source is created. It's not that I'm personally interested in getting money for this kind of research - I'm only capable of theoretizing without much personal responsibility. But I'm really interested in new findings along these lines, which are lacking at the moment.

Bankers have nothing to lose given such energy shortage perspective. \$50bln were spent for thermonuclear synthesis research without much results. More to be spent. This is a pseudo-science, supported by physicists-politicians who have more faith in models than in reality.

A timely quote I've found:
?Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality.? Nikola Tesla
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 14, 2008, 02:36:22 PM
BTW, on another thought, a rotating 'field' may be of use. However, it is not about rotating electric-magnetic field, it is mostly about using DC acoustic potential field to produce gradients around the coil so that they produce a directed electric flow. Well, the EM field WILL rotate, of course, being pulsed that way, but its rotation is an outcome of DC acoustic potential field. Just imagine you are popping and hiding small black holes from nowhere in a cyclic manner around coil. They will start to accelerate all charges inside and outside the coil. This will produce an EM whirl, but the energy of this whirl is sustained by pulsing, not by whirl itself. Then you can use this whirl to get required energy.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 14, 2008, 03:45:40 PM
I remember somewhere reading that when an antennae transmits, the electric field detaches from the magnetic field within nanometers of the antennae.  The radio wave becomes purely massless and propogates at the speed of light.  The electric field following the charge migration up and down the antennae.  I believe that the magnetic field is the effect on the aether by kinetic electrically charged MASS.  It is the wake caused by the charged mass migration through the aether.  The magnetic lines of force are pressure gradients in the aether like iosbars on a meterlogical map.  When the torroidal coil is pulsed it creates a smokering like pressure gradient in the aether.  This allows it to persist in the aether just like a smoke ring persists in the air.  The collector coil traverses this aetheric pressure gradient and now you have a conductor passing through a magnetic field at lots of meters per second.  This essentially makes the tpu an open air dragless generator with the Earth the prime mover moving the output windings across a magnetic field suspended in the aether by the kick coils.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 14, 2008, 10:28:03 PM
@aleks

1. From what I've read, electrons have electrostatic charge field. This is like a bulb's light aura which diminishes with distance from the electron's core.

2. This does not apply to electron as it does not have a magnetic field. Electron is an electric charge monopole. Electrons always repel each other. What makes them stick to each other in an atom is proton which is lacking one electron charge. But it is not electrons sticking to each other - it is protons nullifying their repelling force that make them able to live close to each other.

3. Electro-magnetic fields are always a result of photon emission performed by various particle interactions.

This is good stuff, and is exactly what I seek, but also has answers associated. I have added numbers to your quote so that I can address them individually.

1. Electrons do have an electrostatic charge field, which is true. Your description is pretty good. However, an electromagnetic field is created  by said charge field in motion. That is why an electromagnetic field is electromagnetic. A magnetic field always has an electric field in conjunction with it. No field is truly static, as all fields are varying over time in magnitude and motion.

For instance, an electron in a lower electron shell has more energy than one in a higher shell. A laser (stimulated emission) works by adding energy to an electron which forces it into a lower shell, then upon relaxation it returns to its original shell, and gives off the extra energy in the form of light quanta we call photons. The charge field of each electron had to vary, to change the energy contained in said electron, so was by no means static.

2. :D Concerning the magnetic field, prove it.

If a moving electron has no magnetic field (and there is no such thing as a stationary electron), then electricity and its associated magnetic field, does not work. A magnetic field is produced wherever electrons are in motion, and this is independant upon the conductor. An electric arc in a vacuum still has a magnetic field produced (IE no conductor at all, JUST electrons in motion.).

Electrons do repel each other, and this is due solely to the monopole nature of the charge. Opposite charges attract, like charges repel. To my knowledge, electrons never stick to each other.They orbit the atom nucleus in a similar manner that a moon orbits a planet.

3. In this I HAVE to disagree, to some extent. If various particle interactions are necessary, then explain the magnetic field created by an arc in a vacuum? Or maybe explain the photon itself, which by the claims of physics is a traveling electromagnetic wave with an associated electric field, with NO ASSOCIATED PARTICLES. (If it sounds somewhat stupid, that is because it is. I debate this view as well, but it is the current model.)

*A side note for those reading not knowledged in this area. If these fields are not dependent upon particle propagation, then a photon does not have mass. If they are, then a photon has to have a particle traveling with it, and it has mass. Interestingly enough, a mass has been associated with the photon, but they refer to this embarassing contradiction as "apparent mass" to explain it away, which ONLY raises more questions, especially since they ignore the implication inherent with E=mc^2, namely that mass and energy are but different aspects of the same thing, and are non-separable in nature.

@sparks

I have been reading your posts, and you may not realize it, but you are talking about space/time, and may well be possible.

Don't be confused by my statement, as space/time supposedly "did away with" the Aether concept, but in truth only redefined it, and rather badly at that. The old aether concept was a physical substance, which allowed propagation of waves through a vacuum (light etc.), allowed action at a distance. (fields such as gravity, electric, and magnetic, etc..). Space/time SUPPOSEDLY is not a substance, but it by definition has shape, and substance, since its shape we call fields (gravity etc.) and its topology can be warped..... (contradiction upon contradiction.) It is treated in reality as a substance (an aether) but defined as not. They haven't bought a clue from wal-marts, so don't beat yourself up mentally either. :D

Your descriptions at least sound more honest.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 14, 2008, 11:05:58 PM
BTW, on another thought, a rotating 'field' may be of use. However, it is not about rotating electric-magnetic field, it is mostly about using DC acoustic potential field to produce gradients around the coil so that they produce a directed electric flow. Well, the EM field WILL rotate, of course, being pulsed that way, but its rotation is an outcome of DC acoustic potential field. Just imagine you are popping and hiding small black holes from nowhere in a cyclic manner around coil. They will start to accelerate all charges inside and outside the coil. This will produce an EM whirl, but the energy of this whirl is sustained by pulsing, not by whirl itself. Then you can use this whirl to get required energy.

Actually, you are stating pretty much exactly what I am, using different terms and phrases. I am just disagreeing in that I think the rotating magnetic field induces the DC potential field, instead of it being a resultant derivative of the field. I am seeing the field in my mind as creating , for lack of better words, somewhat of a lens. Like a charged short wire antenna in some aspects, and like a yagi in others. However, instead of drawing the magnetic aspect of the field (though this may well be a side effect too), drawing the electric field lines from a distance, giving your DC potential field that you talk about. (acoustic is a term which is used for properties of sound by definition)

Your statements about the "whirl", "vortex" (or any other similar term describing something with a twisted motional cone, as this would describe the action of the rotating field upon the electric field.) would directly apply, and indeed IS drawing and accelerating the electric field, and indeed sustained by the pulsing. You and I have practically been quoting each other, just using different terminology. The magnetic field in motion, and the charge imbalance in the conductor, creates its own oppositely charged electric field which draws the outside ambient field.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 14, 2008, 11:08:18 PM
1. Electrons do have an electrostatic charge field, which is true. Your description is pretty good. However, an electromagnetic field is created  by said charge field in motion. That is why an electromagnetic field is electromagnetic. A magnetic field always has an electric field in conjunction with it. No field is truly static, as all fields are varying over time in magnitude and motion.

Electromagnetic field is not filled or built of electrons. Electromagnetic field is comprised of moving photons. Both magnetic and electric fields can come alone without its counterpart. There are electric fields without magnetic component and magnetic fields without electric component (e.g. permanent magnet).

For instance, an electron in a lower electron shell has more energy than one in a higher shell. A laser (stimulated emission) works by adding energy to an electron which forces it into a lower shell, then upon relaxation it returns to its original shell, and gives off the extra energy in the form of light quanta we call photons. The charge field of each electron had to vary, to change the energy contained in said electron, so was by no means static.

Laser is created by focusing low-energy light emission in a special chamber having a "hole", there is no direct relation to electron and electron shells in laser emission. You may build your own 'poor man's' laser out of reflective dishes and a light bulb.

2. :D Concerning the magnetic field, prove it.
If a moving electron has no magnetic field (and there is no such thing as a stationary electron), then electricity and its associated magnetic field, does not work. A magnetic field is produced wherever electrons are in motion, and this is independant upon the conductor. An electric arc in a vacuum still has a magnetic field produced (IE no conductor at all, JUST electrons in motion.).

I do not have to prove it, it's written in the books. :) Electrons interact with photons of electromagnetic field, but they do not have their own magnetic field. During electron-electron interaction more photons are created which may or may not produce electric or magnetic field depending on the conditions - this is all theory, of course.

Electrons do repel each other, and this is due solely to the monopole nature of the charge. Opposite charges attract, like charges repel. To my knowledge, electrons never stick to each other.They orbit the atom nucleus in a similar manner that a moon orbits a planet.
There is no such thing as 'opposite charge'. There is only 'lack of charge'. Electrons orbiting the atom nucleus is a dogma, or model. They may well be "sticked" around atom like bullets into rifle's magazine. Electrons may appear attracted to each other in Copper's pairs when super-conductivity is reached.

3. In this I HAVE to disagree, to some extent. If various particle interactions are necessary, then explain the magnetic field created by an arc in a vacuum? Or maybe explain the photon itself, which by the claims of physics is a traveling electromagnetic wave with an associated electric field, with NO ASSOCIATED PARTICLES. (If it sounds somewhat stupid, that is because it is. I debate this view as well, but it is the current model.)
Arc in a vacuum is created out of ions and electrons and EM waves at the same time. Of course, photon is a mass-less wave. I think that E=mc^2 means that you cannot speak of energy without having mass to accept it; you can't get energy out of EM waves without having matter.

Well, I'm not trying to play 'smart guy' role, but I had enough of doubts and headaches trying to understand jungle of physics. But still I may be missing something - but physics as a system does miss something - there are enough questions and observations that were not and cannot be answered to by existing physics models.

As for the aether, I do think it exists. However, it does not exist as a substance, as something with 'structure'. Aether is a "cosmic ruler" - it defines ("stores") length standard deviations. This is how I understand it. If my hypothesis about DC acoustic waves proves valid, aether is a thing built-in into reality of acoustic waves, acoustic waves cannot exist without aether existing at the same time. Photons are self-sustaining (symmetrical) "perturbations" of aether. Well, in this concept aether's length standard deviations can have their life without matter existence. In this respect they become purely virtual, with no way to manifest themselves without interaction with matter. What is matter - I do not know. It is probably a system of stable aether structures - virtual as well. We are living in Maya - this is a thousand years truth.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 14, 2008, 11:11:08 PM
giving your DC potential field that you talk about. (acoustic is a term which is used for properties of sound by definition)
We may be close in our terminology and understanding of this particular coil system, but I insist it is a "DC acoustic potential field", not just "DC potential field" which usually implicitly means "related to electricity". It's a conceptually different thing.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 15, 2008, 12:03:05 AM
@aleks

Light Amplification by the Stimulated Emission of Radiation.... (or laser) No, you cannot create a laser using two mirrors and a light bulb. All lasers (excepting solid state diode lasers) use parallel mirrors one completely reflective and one partially reflective (excepting of course Q-switched which uses a rotating mirror arrangement of various possible configurations.), and derive a coherent beam through wave entrainment of one frequency of electromagnetic radiation which gain energy with each reflection until said are energetic enough to break free of the containment area. These photons are stimulated (by electricity, or EMR, heat, etc.) , in the lasing material between the mirrors, just as I described. A light bulb does not put out coherent light in any form....?????

Protons are positively charged, and electrons negatively charged. Anti-electrons (electron anti-matter) are supposedly positively charged as well. Yes, there are more than one type of charge...?????

A permanent magnet has within itself a moving electric charge, due to the availability of free electrons within the atomic structure, the structure of electron shells of certain atoms, and peculularities of molecular alignment and interaction within the overall particular magnetic substance.....????

Concerning the electron/magnetic field/books.... what books????

A "lack of charge" is called neutrally charged, not positively charged. It is by definition NOT of ANY charge.....?????

An ion, by basic definition is a charged atom or molecule. Free charged particles themselves are called ionizing radiation....?????

You have me really confused here. (Just being honest.)

I am not trying to insult you. I truly am not, but your responses to this last post make absolutely no sense to me, from the physics standpoint. If you are trying to speak a concept, and do not have the proper words to express your concepts, please state so and I will try to interpret. I do not fault anyone for this.

Using any term which is well defined like the classical term "Aether", but applying your own definition without explanation only causes confusion. I truly DO desire to understand your viewpoint, but please understand that, though seriously flawed, the current physics model is far from worthless, as it can fairly accurately explain most of observable reality. That is why I use it, despite the flaws.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: EMdevices on April 15, 2008, 12:51:32 AM
I thought I should perhaps remind you of an interesting passage from SM's letters:

It is obvious that most of the people trying to duplicate my experiment are not of the intellectual caliper necessary to develop my technology or at the very least they need to invest in some laboratory grade instruments in order to develop any progress.
I assumed that anyone working on technology this sophisticated would have a superior knowledge of electronics and an understanding of PURE frequency output being a Necessity to control the reactions going on inside the collector.
Please place this on the web site and let them know that if they do not have a more then average understanding of electron flow then they should not endeavor to try and duplicate my device because they do not stand a chance. I am tired of reading their disappointments because they do not have the education or the knowledge necessary to duplicate my technology.
Sincerely,
SMÃƒâ€šÃ‚Â   Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

and also this one:

...One of the guys who wrote in to the site said something about magnetic fields rotating at incredible speeds... and I told you that he had it! That was part of the answer. You must understand the concept of this technology in order to make more of these things. if you simply copied one it would not be conducive to your ability to make one even the slightest bit smaller or larger or different.
If you could imagine a magnetic field rotating at super fast speeds across a wire, you would see that everything we have been taught to believe about electron flow becomes different.
Think about the fact that in energy conversion using transformers, the alternating voltage is always so slow, it is like molasses...

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 15, 2008, 01:07:31 AM
@all

I would really like to state something here. Due to the misunderstandings between aleks and myself, towards which all reading this have been witnesses, I would like to give all some understanding.

The language of physics is a language of itself. If trying to convey a NEW concept, do not use physics terms as buzzwords or catchphrases. Be willing to EXPLAIN to the best of your ability your mental concept. Misusing or misapplying a phrase only causes confusion. It would be better to create a new term for your concept, than apply a different definition to an old term.

Imagine if I only spoke english, and was speaking to those who only spoke german, we could speak all day long and they would not understand me, nor I them. The terms used in physics (of which electronics is only a small subset) make a separate language unto itself.

If you use your own definitions, then it is comparable to me using german words speaking to native speakers of that language, but making up my own definition to what they mean. If in doubt, use plain english, so to speak.

It is not an "intelligence" thing, nor is it a "science" thing, nor is it a "inflated ego" thing, nor a "status" thing, is is a mutual understanding without unnecessary misunderstanding thing.

@everyone (ESPECIALLY the physicists of the crowd cheering this on)

Don't you DARE think I have placed myself above aleks in any manner. Yes, I have more knowledge in physics, but knowledge is variable, and easily acquired by ANYONE. I NOWHERE claim to be either more intelligent OR capable than this man. His words have demonstrated amazing insight, and those that scoff him demonstrate PUBLICLY their own inability and incapability.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 15, 2008, 01:43:34 AM
@all

If I have seemed testy or a little snappy today, I apologize.

I know it is no excuse, if I have unnecessarily been verbally harsh to anyone for any reason, but please understand that my 2 yr old daughter has developed a viral chest infection, of which I was just informed today, and I am not particularly in a good mood at the moment. Thankfully it has not developed into pneumonia yet, but I have personally had pneumonia enough times to know just how fast that can change.  :'(

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 15, 2008, 03:24:38 AM
Sorry to hear that.  I know the frustration.  Father of 3 grandfather of 2.  God bless.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: HopeForHumanity on April 15, 2008, 06:57:35 AM
Photons are virtual packets of electromagnetic information. Virtual particles are a very interesting topic, as it requires the conservation laws to be temporarily obsolete, but restored afterwards. In a sense, they are like the virtual memory on a computer. When not being used for ram overflow, they are basicaly used to map with the physical memory. Thus, they virtual memory isn't being used for the application, but sort of the behind the scenes action. Gravitons, also virtual, are a similiar concept to photons, but instead used to address gravity.

- Just trying to clear some things up...

It's all correct, right? I'm not in any physics stuff right now, but this is what I understand.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 15, 2008, 07:13:28 AM
@loner and all

I have to agree. It is time to build this puppy. Whether one uses sine/squares/sawtooth.... I DONT CARE! Just try for rotation of the field, which would be discernable using nothing more than a cheapo compass. Get the field rotating, then post your schematic for this part of the coil, we can worry about the collectors when we achieve this.

Remember that the faster the rotation, the better the output should be, and that the field on marks coils rotated faster than the compass placed inside could mechanically keep up..

We might discover five ways to skin the same critter.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 15, 2008, 08:51:52 AM
A light bulb does not put out coherent light in any form....?????
It is laser that outputs coherent light. Light source working in a laser does not have to be coherent. Laser's "reflective chamber" produces coherent light and that's why it becomes powerful and thin.

Protons are positively charged, and electrons negatively charged.
Protons are not just 'positively charged', they are lacking 1 electron. This is a different thing than some 'positive charge'.

A permanent magnet has within itself a moving electric charge, due to the availability of free electrons within the atomic structure, the structure of electron shells of certain atoms, and peculularities of molecular alignment and interaction within the overall particular magnetic substance.....????
I'm not sure this correct. If they had an electrical field they would produce an electrical potential.

Concerning the electron/magnetic field/books.... what books????
Well, I've surfed Internet for this information. In many places there were references to real books. Of course, I can't give you these references, but you may use a websearch for these keywords - you'll likely to find a relevant information.

A "lack of charge" is called neutrally charged, not positively charged. It is by definition NOT of ANY charge.....?????
Neutral charge is not a "lack of charge". Neutrally-charged particle is when all protons have electrons attached to them. Proton is like a "charge hole". It is in this respect becomes a "positive charge", because it really is lacking 1 electron charge. It may have some special "positive charge" field associated with it, but I've never read about that.

An ion, by basic definition is a charged atom or molecule. Free charged particles themselves are called ionizing radiation....????? You have me really confused here. (Just being honest.)
No, ionizing radiation is EM waves of high energy that produces ions by "bombarding" atoms and molecules.

I am not trying to insult you. I truly am not, but your responses to this last post make absolutely no sense to me, from the physics standpoint. If you are trying to speak a concept, and do not have the proper words to express your concepts, please state so and I will try to interpret. I do not fault anyone for this.
In this latest discussion I'm not talking concepts. This is what I've understood and learned. The only concept I was talking is "DC acoustical waves" which frankly saying do not interfere with any other physical phenomena. It only adds a tiny bit. And it is not an aether in common sense like a gaseous substance. DC acoustical waves are virtual as much as photons are virtual particles.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 15, 2008, 08:58:06 AM
I must reiterate, Photons are not EM.  They are not a form of EM.
Then you are talking about some other EM and some other photons. It is a widely-accepted theory, quantum electro dynamics. EM is a field comprised of photons. Note that photon is a general name for 1 quanta of EM wave or field.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 15, 2008, 09:05:10 AM
I have to agree. It is time to build this puppy. Whether one uses sine/squares/sawtooth.... I DONT CARE! Just try for rotation of the field, which would be discernable using nothing more than a cheapo compass. Get the field rotating, then post your schematic for this part of the coil, we can worry about the collectors when we achieve this.
You are right, no more words are needed. Just make sure rotation is achieved by sharp pulses, not by AC or DC current as in conventional schematics.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 15, 2008, 11:47:31 AM
Aleks, I won't start a discussion on this, but I think you should look up "Modern" theory.

I, too, used to accept the BS in the physics books of old, but have evolved my understanding.
Seeing that EM energy has never been used to describe a photon as 1 quantum in any of the
physics courses I took, nor has anyone else ever stated that to me,

You may get some clues about photon being 1 quanta of EM field/wave. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_electrodynamics "E=hv" is an energy of 1 quanta of EM wave of the given frequency "v".
The reason why wire can't emit light is because its atomic structure does not allow to create frequencies of light beam. I think if you can pass 5 Peta Hertz oscillation through a wire, you'll get light around wire. This is unachievable right now.

I think you do not understand my intentions. I'm not fighting you guys. I myself offered a concept which can possibly hardly be accepted by any established physicist. But this concept supports your vision of this SM TPU and why it outputs surplus energy.

I think electric potential field is a result of energy moving from potential state into kinetic state. All electricity, magnetics, mechanics and thermodynamics are about potential-kinetic energy transformations. That is why there is NO overunity possible in conventional physics, only loss. QED and quantum mechanics also follow these classical guidelines of potential-kinetic energy transformations. Simply put, physics does not deal with anything else (this, and inertial frames of reference). That's why it will have a HARD time trying to adopt any concept that creates or destroys energy in any part of the potential-kinetic energy chain. This concept will reform physics too much. It won't be physics anymore.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 15, 2008, 12:05:58 PM
pauldude000, I think it is important to note that electric and magnetic fields can be exchanged depending on the inertial frame of reference. I'm not sure what does that mean, but it surely means that electricity and magnetism form a system of relations between them. So, while electron has no magnetic field, it may be involved in electro-magnetic interactions.

Well, it's all being pretty complex, I have no desire to continue arguing session. I hope cyclic pulsing will give you what you are looking for - no need for theories that much. Just do not try to tell physicists you have overunity - protect your brain cells.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: eldarion on April 15, 2008, 05:16:31 PM
Something else interesting regarding fast rotating magnetic fields:
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2415833

I especially like the last sentence on the sample page provided...

My experiment is nearly set up, but I am having issues providing it with enough power to get the rotating field working (I am using a massive powdered iron core--if this thing can work like a TPU it would probably output several kilowatts of power :D)

One of the reasons I find this approach intriguing is SM's comment on fast rotating fields and the 60Hz equivalent to molasses.  I have also heard that Einstein's UFT supposedly predicts anomalies in high frequency polyphase motors, and also the MAGVID uses a similar topology.

Only a rotating field will not give anything AFAIK, but add a DC bias to the collector wire once the rotating field is set up...lifting the hose and squeezing it...

Eldarion
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 15, 2008, 06:26:09 PM
Only a rotating field will not give anything AFAIK, but add a DC bias to the collector wire once the rotating field is set up...lifting the hose and squeezing it...
I guess this should be exactly fine! Rotating field or gravity is nothing if it has nothing to accelerate. DC bias should provide the necessary meat to accelerate. It's like having a sattelite without velocity: it will dump itself onto planet. If it has velocity, planet will only add energy to its speed.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 15, 2008, 06:46:14 PM
A Photon is a LIGHT Quanta, NOT an EM Quanta.
Well, this is last time I will comment on this. Light is EM wave, there is no difference between light and EM waves, just a different application. Model is same.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: EMdevices on April 15, 2008, 07:36:14 PM
yes, I second that.   the only reason that light is refered to quanta, photon etc is because it doesn't come in a continuous spectrum since it's emited by atoms and they are quantized, or rather the electron orbits are quantized, etc..    so at the physical level, light is EM radiation just like radio waves, but of a much higher frequency.

EM
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: infringer on April 15, 2008, 08:20:00 PM
OK this is way far fetched but I feel the need to say it:

Think of the center line on a scope as a wire.

Now in our tests we have three of the lines one in the middle  the collector...

As the wave propgates above the line and below the line it is doing the same across the wire...

Now the higher the frequency the faster these pulses occur.

Could it be that as the wave flows above the line it is trapping potential around the line and is expelling non useable shells at the bottom like a pistion...
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 15, 2008, 08:59:29 PM
@loner

As far as posting. Post whatever pics, schematics, etc.. you have. Please describe what effects are noted, what successes if any, AND what failures. In that manner, maybe we can stave off making the SAME mistakes over and over.

I have come up with a new schematic I am considering, and I will post it as well. (driver circuit for rotation, but you will think me a traitor, since I thought of another possible way to achieve rotation, using mosfets and trigger circuits combined with a capacitor/inductor discharge circuit for enhanced power. I am not for sure the circuit will even work, but if it does, it should work at full mosfet speed capability.)

Concerning your question about enhancing or gaining voltage in your circuit. Do you remember the old tesla coil days, when oftentimes in those days you had to drive your primary circuit with a battery. They accomplished this using what they called a "kick" or "kicker" coil. They would hook up an inductive coil to a point type system, an rapidly make and break the circuit. The high inductance coil would draw an amperage surge, which would then convert to voltage at the break. They could easily achieve 5000volts in this manner to charge their primary capacitors.

Now, I doubt that you are looking for this much voltage, but using high speed power transistors, you can get 60v easy out of a 9v battery. :D Remember the schematic I was talking about earlier? I think we are thinking somewhat along the same lines. I was experimenting with unloaded coils last night to test voltage amplification of short duration spike signals through an air core inductance using my scope. I achieved 60v. I will duplicate it again and try to post pics.

I was using a 555 timer circuit and extremely low on times (very short duty cycles), to the point that any less, and the 555 would quit oscillating. I put this signal through a parallel cap/ind tank to achieve a needle shaped spike signal, then fed this through the test inductance.  I saw some MIGHTY interesting stuff happening, which I hope to share with all here!

I will see what I can do about getting the stuff posted today if possible.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 15, 2008, 10:16:01 PM
Here are a few schematics.

1. This is my possible driver circuit for rotation that I mentioned last post. In case the words dont come through. All mosfets show as grounded. In reality, they are power outputs to the respective control coil for each. 3 small toroidal cores wound with each a small power inductance coil, and a small trigger coil. PC1,2,3 and T1,2,3 respectively (example PC1 & T1 on same core)

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/images/possiblecc.jpg)

2. Here is a good 555 testing circuit. As shown it is 50% duty cycle within a broad range. Using a Cmos 555, I have over-clocked to 4.9Mhz (with a sloppy waveform at this speed).

Notes:

Change 1.5k fixed resistor to 3k variable linear trimmer pot, and change 50k variable to 100k trimmer pot, for variable duty cycle with extremely wide range. My current 555 pulse testing circuit. I am using a TS555CN, which is rated to 2.7Mhz. (yes, I said 4.9 above, and I mean 4.9) scope shots and freq meter shots available on otto's TPU/ECD thread.

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/images/555ContDuty.jpg)

I will post the scope shots promised earlier of my experimentation later.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: vegasscorpion on April 16, 2008, 01:41:22 AM
Paul,
I have a quick question for you.  Would there be any benefit to using a Marko Rodin coil?  I always wondered if the winding and geometry to add some benefit.  Thanks
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 16, 2008, 03:37:39 AM
@loner

I dont upload my photos here, I use my geocities site to store them, then just link to them.

As for one small toroid, I thought of that, but then realized that a smaller toroid would run at higher frequency than the large toroid. With the small toroids close to, or inside the perimeter of, the large toroid, they should be somewhat limited to the frequency of the field itself. I think. Maybe. possibly? (I hope.)

Art, I have thought of one possible problem to overcome with the circuit. Upon initial powerup, or switch-on, as the case may be, there may be an initial false triggering of all three coils. Another question, after mosfets 1,2,3 have all fired, will they stay in the "on" position? We may have to figure a means of using npn switching transistors on the gates to manually turn them off.

To the best of my knowledge, after the capacitor is drained, the toroid should quit producing electricity in the trigger coil, as the current would then be steady producing no voltage in the trigger, which should shut off the mosfet. That was my original thinking. Maybe a small resistor in the gate circuit could cure this if it is a problem.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 16, 2008, 06:13:33 AM
Paul,
I have a quick question for you.  Would there be any benefit to using a Marko Rodin coil?  I always wondered if the winding and geometry to add some benefit.  Thanks

Special geometries can do interesting things, as not only the signal sent through a coil affects the field, so does the shape and manner of winding affect field shape. However, I do not think that the Rodin coil would be special, just because is it based upon fractals and numerology. If it is special, it is going to be because of field shape and interaction. Otherwise, it is the same as many types of toroidal transformer. The geometry of winding the transformer I have seen used in a couple of high power cheap car audio amps.

If you want to try one, try one. I cannot state what it will or wont do without trying it myself.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 16, 2008, 10:17:47 AM
@loner & all

I did some playing around, and have taken and uploaded the pics promised. (I love playing with my cute little driver circuit.) The driver circuit in this case is the output from my 555, run through a parallel Capacitor/air core inductor tank circuit. This I sent though an unloaded air core coil and adjusted the 555 output frequency for desired effect.

First, the voltage enhancement which can come from resonance in an inductor/capacitance. I told someone once how I could easily get AC from DC as well. Here you go. NOTE the DC waveform piggybacking the much greater voltage AC.

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/example2/127vac5vdv.jpg)

Next is something I noticed CLOSE to resonance frequency, right before and after resonance. Note it is still sine, but the same signal is duplicated and PLACED OUT OF PHASE.

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/example2/outofphaseres5vdv.jpg)

This is really interesting and thought provoking stuff.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 16, 2008, 10:25:14 AM
I forgot to mention one thing towards the pictures above.

Both are taken at the same frequency setting ( .2 us ) and the same Volt/div ( 5v/div ) which is evident in any case through the pictures. Picture no 2 (phase difference) is relatively indicative of the voltage of the original waveform.

One thing that is a royal PAIN when adjusting for resonance is the sensitivity of the circuitry at this point. Just the capacitance of the proximity of your body close to any circuitry at this point changes the waveform!!!! (adjusting the pots becomes a chore)

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 16, 2008, 01:06:43 PM
I forgot to mention one thing towards the pictures above.

Both are taken at the same frequency setting ( .2 us ) and the same Volt/div ( 5v/div ) which is evident in any case through the pictures. Picture no 2 (phase difference) is relatively indicative of the voltage of the original waveform.

One thing that is a royal PAIN when adjusting for resonance is the sensitivity of the circuitry at this point. Just the capacitance of the proximity of your body close to any circuitry at this point changes the waveform!!!! (adjusting the pots becomes a chore)

Paul Andrulis

Does it mean you have a three pulse coils on a collector wire arrangement? On pic.2 it seems that the pulse rise time immediately triggers a wide sine-wave segment. The rise time of the pulse is at least 4ns or smaller, is this right?

Probably you should use "solid-state" triggering tied to pulse driver with three independent outputs. Your setup is obviously too sensitive for triggering - any coils are sensitive to ambient EM fields. It's elegant way to trigger coils, but it is unprecise.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 16, 2008, 09:56:25 PM
@aleks

Yes, the rise time is VERY small, as in designing my 555 circuit, I tried for as little variance from a perfect square wave as possible. A theoretically perfect square wave has no rise time, but this is impossible to build in reality. I managed to get it very very close though. The high speed npn transistor's own rise fall/times help stabilize the 555 clocking circuit, resulting in the ability to overclock, and better waveform. My TS555's are rated on spec sheet at 2.7 Mhz, but over 4Mhz is possible with my configuration. A better RF NPN might keep things stable for more Mhz yet, I don't know. There will be a limiting border where the 555 becomes unstable no matter what.

This example is using a 555driver circuit as in the pic, with an inductor/capacitance resonation tank as the driving circuit, testing output through an air core inductor. This is not through a completed collector coil circuit, but indicative of one control coil if you applied it towards such.

555 circuit output + aircore coil and capacitor in parallel = driver circuit

Driver ---> Air core coil in series with driver circuit (unloaded) = test results (pics)

If you want me to draw a simple schematic, I can.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 16, 2008, 10:11:43 PM
This example is using a 555driver circuit as in the pic, with an inductor/capacitance resonation tank as the driving circuit, testing output through an air core inductor. This is not through a completed collector coil circuit, but indicative of one control coil if you applied it towards such.

Thanks. So, basically pic.2 shows an inductive feedback of a single pulse?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 16, 2008, 10:25:33 PM
I just thought of something, I thought I might share with all.

Do you want one HELL of a forward biased enhancing diode? As high a V/A as you care to build? Got your attention yet? :D

Take a permanent magnet (the stronger the more effective IE rare earth), a cylinder oriented to the faces, and wind a coil around it. Epoxy the coil in place so that it cannot move. That's it, all there is to it.

Now, why it works.

Apply a dc current to it, the current creates an oriented field in the coil (right hand rule). If this field is opposite the permanent magnets field, the perm magnet neutralizes the field. You would have to have more gauss than the magnet to neutralize it's field. Therefore, current will only flow easily ONE WAY in the circuit. (By definition a diode.)

Now, when current flows the other direction, the permanent magnets field will ENHANCE the field of the coil. (Both magnet and coil will "see" the overall field as its own)........

Something to make you go Hmmmmm....

Practicality:

For small signal use, maybe not much.

Question: how much is the cost of a 600V 30A diode, or worse a 6000V 30A diode?

Question: How much is a small stack of samarium cobalt magnets, a piece of wire, and some epoxy? (Especially if a diode like you desire is not commercially available except through custom order?)

Question: What is you desire the enhancement effects?

I am going to build one today, and do some playing.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 16, 2008, 10:32:00 PM
I am going to build one today, and do some playing.
Hmm. Will it work at all? I think even if magnetic field is nullified it does not mean current will get nullified as well...
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 16, 2008, 10:45:21 PM
@aleks

Any coil you wind will have its own natural resonant value. It will actually have more than one depending upon capacitance of the coil, the inductance of the coil, the length of the wire used to wind the coil, and the physical shape of the coil. Each of these contributes in it's own way. Every coil is biased towards it's own natural resonant frequencies (harmonics). It reacts to them with more power, and in fact a coil fights non-resonant frequencies, damping them out.

What you see in the phase example is what happens CLOSE to resonance. ONE Square Wave signal is applied, but the coil reacts and creates another. These two signals overlap, are enhancing, and become indistinguishable AT resonance.  The first sine picture is the same coil, the same applied signal, but ALL of the signals are in phase, which is why the AC component CREATED BY THE COIL ITSELF, is of much greater strength than the applied signal.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 16, 2008, 10:48:46 PM
The first sine picture is the same coil, the same applied signal, but ALL of the signals are in phase, which is why the AC component CREATED BY THE COIL ITSELF, is of much greater strength than the applied signal.
No problem, I understand. It is called filtering. DC pulses carry base frequency information. It is what we see on the scope. Still, this does not look like "sine wave segments".
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 16, 2008, 10:54:29 PM
I am going to build one today, and do some playing.
Hmm. Will it work at all? I think even if magnetic field is nullified it does not mean current will get nullified as well...

Actually aleks, I wondered the same thing myself. Except coil field strength is determined by ampere turn. A given field, even in a perm magnet can be considered in ampere turns, as the same field would require X amps and Y turns to create. Basic electronics 101

Neutralize the field, and it neutralizes the applied pulse. Examine why an inductance is a choke. You are just building a "different" type of choke filter.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 16, 2008, 11:01:51 PM
The first sine picture is the same coil, the same applied signal, but ALL of the signals are in phase, which is why the AC component CREATED BY THE COIL ITSELF, is of much greater strength than the applied signal.
No problem, I understand. It is called filtering. DC pulses carry base frequency information. It is what we see on the scope. Still, this does not look like "sine wave segments".

Good point except you are missing one observable detail in the picture. IT IS THE GROUND SIGNAL CARRYING THE AC COMPONENT, NOT THE APPLIED DC PULSE WAVEFORM. You see the wave. In your mind, stretch the wave back out flat to see where the AC is being transported in the signal. :D

The 0v component (ground or NO voltage), is now many multiples of the applied voltage, with the original DC pulse riding the new AC wave, so to speak.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 17, 2008, 12:00:17 AM
@Paul

Have you tried saturating the cores with either a pm or dc biased winding yet?  I think it will push things up.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 17, 2008, 12:47:57 AM
@sparks

No I haven't but it is something to test. Thanks for the concept.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 17, 2008, 01:34:38 AM
Initial testing of "diode" idea unsuccessful. Did notice some amplification (not much), but not enough to justify the notion. My magnet, however, was of pitiful strength. (Best I had on hand, and I only tested pulsed DC.)

If someone gets different results, great, but at this point it is a no-go.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 17, 2008, 04:33:13 AM
@art

I had the notion also that maybe I was not using near enough inductance for the signal... Maybe there was practically no field present to fight. I have since then found a false negative. I have a matching pair of metallic crystaline magnets, which I chose for this test. JUST TOO BAD THE ARE NOT MAGNETIZED ON THE FACES!!!! GRRRRR! Guess who didn't bother to check... <<<---------- ME

I do not have a clue how they are oriented, what a monumental waste of time.

As to your other question, I was not using dual trace on the signal, just a single. However, I sincerely doubt false triggering of the scope, as this  happens only within a very narrow range of frequencies, which varies as to different coils. This tells me it is an aspect of the signal read, and not a false positive. What do you think. I could be wrong.

Paul
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 17, 2008, 07:46:44 AM
@art

Check with a small bar. North end always points to south.

Rewound another. It is definitely NOT acting like a diode.............. However, either I am crazy, or my scope is crazy, or I am at a complete loss to explain just what IS happening in these things. The field has gone nuts.

It is doing things I never thought possible, never even though ABOUT.

I checked my circuit output, suspecting a damaged 555 circuit, found a blown transistor. Replaced, best square waves you ever saw. Put the signal through a diode to prevent backfiring (tired of fixing 555 circuits.) Excellant signal!

Put it through the magcoil, and the field is even MORE screwy. Adjust the frequency, and I watch the screwyest effects I really am at a loss to understand. Might have to post some pics, just for freakout value.

No, I am not just getting "sines"... (I dont really know WHAT to call them.)

Whether I can get a TPU to work or not, I am going to HAVE to investigate this further, later.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 17, 2008, 09:19:03 AM
@art

I wonder. We have been taught to remove all traces of variant signal, to ignore aberrations, to (in essence) ignore the obvious. I remember reading one of Tesla's papers in which he stated that multiple signals can travel in the same conductor, both separate and independent of each other. WE know that is possible, just examine how the transmission line of an antenna works........

Ask yourself what I am now having to ask myself. "What If".

By the way, I have now discovered that you can pull energy out of a magnet (side product of recent experiment.) I have also learned that to recharge a 9v battery from said, it might require a roomfull of them to do it. :D Possible, but not really practical. A magnet with a fine wire (30 ga) coil wrapped around it was putting out a steady 20mv peak to peak AC, measured at 5mv/div at 50ns. (yes I aligned my DC line to center of scope)  I also found out that it can jump to about 1v pp in a thunderstorm. WOO-HOO!

Maybe I should run it through a full wave... :D I could power my house tomorrow!

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 17, 2008, 10:13:33 AM
Maybe I should run it through a full wave... :D I could power my house tomorrow!
You won't achieve that with a single rectifier stage. Since oscillations are random you need a more involved arrangement. I think you will need a rectifier ladder of some kind so that you can cover a wide range of signal amplitudes - it is like analog-to-digital converter, but with each bit stage outputting power so when you have a large signal this rectifier ladder should "light" all lower power rectifier stages. Each stage should probably be low-passed by means of a small choke or RC (RC should be simpler).
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 17, 2008, 11:45:39 AM
@aleks

Answer me a simple question, and I will call you "King of the Power Grid" (you quite literally would be), under the terms that you must accept the basic premise as possible first. I am not interested in why "it cant be possible".

Question : How do you separate for use 100 or more individual frequencies of the same or close frequency which just happen to co-exist side by side, separate and individual of each other, yet traveling/co-existing in the same conductor????

I only can only guess to turn them into DC and hopefully they mix. Anything better?

I just realized what I witnessed, though my brain is already making up excuses why it "cannot be so". How such could be, without summing and inherent blending is beyond my knowledge, or my current ability to envision such. Durn it, it CANT be so, yet............

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 17, 2008, 12:59:46 PM
I only can only guess to turn them into DC and hopefully they mix. Anything better?
From spectral math (Fourier transform and such things) you may build a battery of band-pass filters. What is band-pass filter? It is simply a component whose resistance (or rather impedance) is dependent on the frequency of the input signal. This way you can divide any signal into narrow spectral bands: the power will be streaming there where there is less resistance exist.

However, to harness this power you'll need to create a "rectifier ladder" for each band. What is "recitifier ladder"? It's the same thing as spectral band-pass filters, but its resistance depends on the level of the signal. So, if a signal is lower or higher than a certain level, a given element of the rectifier ladder does not conduct electricity. Well, I do not have any complete schematic for that, - I'm only giving a general idea. What is more important is that each level element of the rectifier ladder will be "pulsing" randomly. This is where a slow choke is necessary - it will accumulate energy with each such pulse. Then the energy from all chokes (there will be plenty of them) should be taken to load, inductively.

Of course, it looks like a fantasy - from the usual understanding it is impossible to get energy from random signals. However, the reality is that it can be done - some japanese inventor built a "water energy collector" that takes energy from random ocean waves and directs the ship. If this can be done on water, this should be possible to do in electricity.

BTW, and of course, there is no such thing as 100 frequencies of the same frequency. There can be a random signal that contains a lot of frequencies with each frequency oscillating randomly.

Well, if the above offered scheme can be made to work, sunlight energy (being basically a random signal within a narrow spectral band) could be harvested with a better efficiency.

This scheme can be also used to harness energy from secondary oscillations like those available in Milkovits device.

Something like this: ("chokes" there should all be managed in some way to take their voltage which should be basically integrated pulses - i.e. positive and negative DC voltage with a bit of oscillation)

-1..2V, -1..0V, 1..2V, 2..3V etc represent sections with diodes that conduct current in the specified voltage region (this may be harder to do in passive form than to draw this scheme, but it's about the only way to do it). So, after all rectification you are left with equal number of "positive" and "negative" chokes, each carrying different energy levels. So, some kind of "collector" is also necessary whose outputs will be plain DC + and -. Chokes should be tuned to band-pass filter's center frequency: using a too slow choke on a high frequency may not be optimal and may put a lot of energy to waste; using a too fast choke on a slower frequency won't work well, too since this will produce unsteady random voltage pulses.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 17, 2008, 02:31:26 PM
@Paul

E=MC2  applies.     For the people who think in particles and not frequency.
(wave particle duality).  The beauty of this equation is in the definitions.  I refer specifically to the M.  Mass is at rest energy or potential energy contained in an inertial frame.  Inertial frame could be an orbit a spin a twist whatever.  The electron has mass.  It is very easy to convert a portion of the mass of the electron into translatory energy.  Not annihalate or cancel the whole damn inertial frame and tweak every bit of potential energy out of this frame that was given to us by the creator of the electron.  Just direct it so that some of it's inherent potential energy flows into the desired inertial frame.  The radio wave transmitted in the copper atmosphere of the kick coil will do this. It will direct the intrinsic potential energy of the copper electrons mass into the ring. Not all of it just a bit.
The Universe will replenish the potential energy lost by the electron inertial frame.
The kick harvests potential energy like our ancestors gathered wood to warm themselves by a fire in a cave.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Turz on April 17, 2008, 03:03:33 PM
hope may help

http://www.pxarchive.de/home//tech/rotate.html
If an EM field is somehow rotated extremely fast, shouldn't all matter be repelled from its center? -kgo.
How fast do you want it rotated? It's fairly simple to construct a system to produce rotating EM waves at whatever rotational velocity you wish by feeding a pair of broadside dipole arrays with quatrature phased waves. It is quite simple to construct a system that would have a rotational velocity of C within the uniform field area. It might also be fairly easy to do this with a Hemholtz coil arangement as well, but the broadside array will be much easier to do at easily engineerable frequencies. Some really interesting paradoxes come about when the rotational frequency is high enough so that the rotational velocity exceeds C within the uniform field area of the arrays or within the hemholtz coils.
Robert Shannon

What effect would there be at the boundry where the rotational velocity reached, and then exceeded the speed of light? How could the magnetic field even propogate to the center of the antenna structure if it would have to move faster than light to reach that space? If hemholtz coils were used instead of loops, the magnetic field strength would be uniform inside the structure, how could the field strenght be uniform if there is not sufficient time for the field to propogate through the space inside the structure itself? Could such an effect actually generate a wormhole like phenomena, at energy levels far below that of neutron stars and such? As the causal mechanism, the magnetic field, is in roation, would this describe a traversable worm hole as has been postulated in relationship to rotating black holes?

and

http://antigravitypower.tripod.com/stirniman/stirniman13.html

Several key pharases keep popping up regarding rotating fields, powerful
magnetic pulsed fields, and 90 degree cross-field phase shifts.
For example, Preston Nicholes describes a device known as a Delta T
antenna in the Montauk series of books. The Delta T antenna is described
as a pyramidal structure, but lets just take two square loops, placed at
90 degrees to each other, and feed these two loops with an RF signal,
also with a 90 degree phase shift, we will produce a rotating magnetic
field within the loops
(these loops share a common center point, and
each loop is in a plane 90 degrees from the other)
The speed of rotation of this magnetic field is a direct function of the
frequancy of the applied RF signal
.  At the center of the antenna, the
rotational velocity is zero, but as you move out from the center, and
rotational velocity increases.  At some distance from center would reach
the speed of light, dependant of the frequancy used.
One could imagine that the rotational velocity of this rotating magnetic
field could reach the speed of light within the antenna structure  itself
if a way could be found to make the antenna much larger than a normaly
resonant antenna would be for that same frequancy.  At several hundred
megahertz, a two meter per side square loop would have a rotational
velocity well in excess of the speed of light within the antenna structure
itself.
What effect would there be at the boundry where the rotational velocity
reached, and then exceeded the speed of light.  How could the magnetic
field even propogate to the center of the antenna structure if it would
have to move faster than light to reach that space?  If hemholtz coils
were used instead of loops, the magnetic field strength would be uniform
inside the structure, how could the field strenght be uniform if there is
not sufficient time for the field to propogate through the space inside
the structure itself?
Could such an effect actually generate a wormhole like phenomena, at energy
levels far below that of neutron stars and such?  As the causal mechanism,
the magnetic field, is in roation, would this describe a traversable worm
hole as has been postulated in relationship to rotating black holes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmholtz_coil
Regards
Turz
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 17, 2008, 04:36:22 PM
@Turz

Exactly how it has to happen.  The turns of the kick windings create for an analogy a gas of electrons.  Then through this media a hf pulse is propogated and wave guided.  The collector copper becomes part of this media.  The collector gas experiences the wave and is pushed an pulled responding as a fluid would.  This begins an INERTIALLY driven electrical current not a pressurized current. IT WILL NOT PROPOGATE A MAGNETIC FIELD THAT WILL RESIST THE WAVE.  Each successive "radio wave" will accelerate the inertially driven electrical current.  The energy is coming from the electrons intrinsic energy.  The electrons experiencing the directional magnetic changes which accompany the radio wave;  shift their magnetic dipole moments to align with the magnetic field disruption of the radio wave.  This shifting of the magnetic dipole moments represents a conversion of the mass of the electron into energy.  The electrons slow down or cool or release photons.  This energy is released to the collector windings inertial frame. The collector current starts to speed up but never faster than the radio wave propogation moving near the speed of light through the electron cloud of the kick conductors.  Now all that is needed is to include an external circuit that converts the inertia of the collector field into pressure.
First things first.  Lets get her spinning.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: eldarion on April 17, 2008, 04:56:55 PM
...through this media a hf pulse is propogated and wave guided....Each successive "radio wave"...

I have a very hard time believing SM used anything remotely like a waveguide--the construction is just too imprecise for this to be feasible.

So, you might say, use HF waves, that way the construction can be less precise.  That sounds nice until you calculate the wavelengths involved and find that they are way to long to fit in the device's wires.

Sorry if I seem a bit strong on these points; I have seen the waveguide / RF idea brought up over and over (I have actually tested it as well with no results).

Eldarion
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 17, 2008, 09:04:15 PM
Well, sorry if that kind of schematic was tested and confirmed non-working, but what about such ultra-simple coil?

You just need a single ferromagnetic core which is very slow - 3kHz frequency response only. This site http://www.arnoldmagnetics.com/products/powder/powder_catalogs.htm lists some Q specs. Molypermalloy powder core of o.d.1.350, i.d.0.920, ht.0.350 (173mu 205mu) looks to be a good candidate.

The coil is two-strand lamp wire compactly wound in a single layer around the core. Pulses are saw-tooth, or as a more simple variant, square wave - in the latter case a varying duty cycle square wave can be very beneficial. A single generator is needed only. Frequency and duty cycle should be selected as appropriate.

This should not create a rotating magnetic field (the field whose intensity oscillates on the circumference), but it should support magnetic energy field of the core via pulses while pulses themselves create 'DC acoustic field' that adds some OU energy to the magnetic field. This energy can then be routed to the load.

Since the core is slow, there is no need to pulse it too fast - just pulse it fast enough so that its magnetic field only rises, preferrably up to the saturation point.

If rotating magnetic field is a requirement, this apporach won't work.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 17, 2008, 10:05:28 PM
...through this media a hf pulse is propogated and wave guided....Each successive "radio wave"...

I have a very hard time believing SM used anything remotely like a waveguide--the construction is just too imprecise for this to be feasible.

So, you might say, use HF waves, that way the construction can be less precise.  That sounds nice until you calculate the wavelengths involved and find that they are way to long to fit in the device's wires.

Sorry if I seem a bit strong on these points; I have seen the waveguide / RF idea brought up over and over (I have actually tested it as well with no results).

@Eldarion

Thankyou for your input.  SM sure is sloppy but I would like to point out that  ALL his designs use a confining metal about the outer circumference. The bailing wire. The metal spool. The metal in the bottom of the big tpu. Perhaps a little goes astray. You and I now know the power of a "magnetic disturbance".  ERfinder and Grumpy and Tesla are the ones that taught me.
The magnetic disturbance does not have to fit in the circumference of the ring if it is propogated in such a manner that it uses the copper conductor like a sound wave uses air.  A scalar electromagnetic disruption guided  by a waveguide which may well employ a second frequency to keep the scalar wave traversing in the desired inertial frame and direction.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 17, 2008, 10:25:31 PM
Aleks, this begs a question from me, and we may need EE input, but Wouldn't a single coil
be able to produce a rotation in the flux if pulsed at the correct Freq.

There will be "rotation" only in a sense of magnetic field "refresh" with each pulse. However, this refreshing with each pulse goes at speed of light around core. Whereas rotating magnetic field is actually an oscillation of magnetic field energy at each control coil point. So, this oscillation can be made slow.

Core memory was discarded LONG before the internet was started

I think you are referring to magnetic domain memory. In this sense the magnetic core being pulsed "saves" the characteristics of the pulse and electron flow that took place. But I do not think this has any relevance here.

P.S.  Which kind of schematic were you referring to?  I am afraid I can't keep up with all the
info here and would like to add this to my "Failure" list so I don't repeat the same mistakes
that others have already done the work to find.  TIA.  (Thanks in advance?)

I was referring schematic I've posted myself - that simple drawing with "pulses" and "load" parts.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Spider on April 17, 2008, 11:07:36 PM
Rotational magnetic field..

Reading about the reedswitches gave me an idea to create a rotational magnatic field.
Using 4 coils and 8 reeds, 4 nc and 4 no, maybe the coils would start to fire in order.
Using the increasing output voltage from the collector as input, the stronger magnetic field of the coils will speed up the rotation(as mentioned), as the reeds wil start switching faster and faster.

Greetings Rene
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 17, 2008, 11:47:35 PM
I am referring to Actual Core Memory.
Permanent magnet chargers are in use even now. It's like having one big domain instead of billions of smaller ones.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 17, 2008, 11:58:35 PM
@spider

It looks to be a good idea, but I think your approach with reed switches will encounter a mechanic speed limit. IE the spring tension in the reeds (I am assuming mechanical reed switches) will only react up to a certain speed, then they would attempt to float, in similar conception of mechanical points on an internal combustion engine. At this point, which will be low in comparison to solid state, the reeds will not be able to react fast enough to the field.

However, I will NOT shoot down the concept, in that we do not know yet what speed is optimal for the TPU. Give it a try, and post the results.

A potentially good idea!

@Art

Is it even possible to hijack a thread? "Speak up", "shout and be heard", (ahem...cough...gasp..... Sorry, choked on a dry cliche'.).

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 18, 2008, 12:49:22 AM
@everyone

Just an update for all on my thinking, with explanations.

Concerning the rotating field:

About the TPU, we know much, yet little is HARD data. We know, for instance, that a rotating field is necessary to it's inherent operation. Yet, that is ALL we know concerning said field. We have made plausible guesses, but remember that is ALL they are... Plausible, or probable, not proven hard data.

Keep in mind that in anything we desire to accomplish, there is always several ways to accomplish the same goal.

How can fields be made to rotate? Rotating fields are in common use today, mainly in polyphase power (motor) or generating (alternators/AC power production) applications. Find out why they rotate, then imitate already proven technology if necessary. Understand that they cannot make a motor spin >inductively< with only one frequency at single phase, and that is the reason for starting capacitors etc.....(I refer specifically to AC induction motors, not DC or "Other") By the "etc.", I am thinking specifically of those little AC fan motors, you know the ones I am talking about, with one big fine wire single phase coil, an iron/poured aluminum cage rotor, and out in the middle of knowwhere, a 1 1/2 turn very heavy gauge wire soldered to itself???

(BIG HINT, think about what you have seen on the small motor, and go examine the TPU pics in JDO's newest thread, and see if you notice what I noticed.)

What WE are facing with the TPU is a rotorless induction motor, where the fields itself are rotating. Think of it in those terms. Otto, you stand vindicated in part, as the controls may well need phased AC.

However, I still think the AC component is developed inductively from the input.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 18, 2008, 02:50:45 AM

I really believe that you need the pulse energy to travel through the coil copper not apply the pulse to the entire coil.   Just think what one fm pulse does.  It travels at near the speed of light and rattles magnetic fields on antennaes in a radius of hundreds of miles all at the same time and everything in between.   Just from one little spark in a vacuum tube.  Now imagine instead of all that energy radiating out very uncontrolled you cause it to go around in a circle.
Or collapsing inward across a pancake coil or spiraling through an ion gas filled bulb.  DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT MOVING THE ELECTRONS OF THE CONDUCTOR due to an impressed voltage.  You can do that till you are blue in the face and you won't get anything but conventional current.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: eldarion on April 18, 2008, 04:03:38 AM
(BIG HINT, think about what you have seen on the small motor, and go examine the TPU pics in JDO's newest thread, and see if you notice what I noticed.)

What WE are facing with the TPU is a rotorless induction motor, where the fields itself are rotating. Think of it in those terms. Otto, you stand vindicated in part, as the controls may well need phased AC.

This has been my exact line of thinking for a while now--I can say with 90% certainty that you will not see these effects with a ferrite core (ran LOTS of tests, nothing interesting happened).  Can you elaborate on what you saw in the pictures?  It might help us converge on a solution faster.

Eldarion
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 18, 2008, 07:55:11 AM
@eldarion

A picture is worth a thousand words.

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/images/tpu2edited.jpg)

If they are not the control coils, then they would be loading coils for the control coils like in my mosfet circuit.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 18, 2008, 08:25:37 AM
I can say with 90% certainty that you will not see these effects with a ferrite core (ran LOTS of tests, nothing interesting happened)
Do you have frequency response details about ferrite cores you've used? The reason I'm asking is that in my opinion core should be accumulating flux with each pulse. If the ferrite core is fast, flux won't be accumulating. What I'm looking for is back EMF. It is this "background" EMF that gains OU energy with each new pulse. If there is no background EMF energy in the core left from previous pulse, there is nothing present that can benefit from gravity force. Of course, you should not forget about diode placed on the pulse circuit so that back EMF does not flow into the pulse circuitry. In this scenario the only way for the energy to go is though the parallel wound load wire.

Well, I do not mean use ferrite core. Ferromagnetic rather (e.g. iron). Permanent magnet may work as well, but this is not a requirement as much as frequency response of magnetic flux induction.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: eldarion on April 19, 2008, 04:27:08 AM
OK, I realize that I was extremely unclear and just plain wrong in my last post.  (Posting at ridiculous hours of the night is not a good thing to do...)

What I meant to say, and this will seem quite obvious, is simply:
I set up my iron powder core with three primary (control) windings phased as to set up a rotating magnetic field, and a secondary (collector) wound toroidally all around the core, and another secondary collector wound in the TPU "classical" configuration.  Neither secondary produced any voltage or current.

So, all I can say is that under these particular conditions, there is nothing interesting.  The more I look at the FTPU, however, the more I realize that these are NOT the conditions that are set up in the TPU.

I am out of state and away from my bench for a couple of days, so I cannot test Kames' idea here right now: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4486.msg90644.html#msg90644 , but I will do so as soon as I get back!  Seems intriguing...let's master the basic effect first and then the TPUs will seem blindingly obvious. ;)  Unless we can't with the information given, in which case the TPU will be a long, uphill reverse engineering battle... :P

Eldarion
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 19, 2008, 08:58:51 AM
I set up my iron powder core
As I've said, the performance should depend on the induction frequency response of this core. I think the basis of gaining OU energy is to have an "energy cloud" around TPU. If core is too fast, all induced energy will leave the core before the next pulse arrives. Ever increasing and saturating flux is a requirement here I think.

I hope your core was fast and that's why your testing failed to give any positive results. If not, well, then we should look for another theory.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Spider on April 20, 2008, 06:46:23 PM
@Loner,

Your drawing with the HAL sensors gave me another idea, together with your previous post and some text from the SM PDF.

It is three separate coils of multi strand copper wire laid one on top of the other, not
interleaved. Three is important. You can do many things with three coils. You can run
them in parallel, you can run two in series and one in parallel, or etc.
You can run a separate frequency into each coil for better control on large power units if
need be.
The control wiring is vertically wound in several segments around each of the horizontal
collector coils. Other control wires are wound around all of the horizontal collector coils
together.
Through the different control wire and coil wire arrangements you can keep complete
control of the unit most of the time.

I am just a mecanical engineer and do not know that much of electronic components and circuitry. Only their basis functions.

Watching the garage video I came up with the following drawing

3 collectors(A,B,C) feeding 3 of the 4 control coils, and the first control coils fed by the output via a HAL and a delay device, and to start the device, maybe a small battery feeding 1.
A runs through 1, B runs through 2 and C runs through 3.

About the control circuit, maybe its intention is to keep the tpu slightly out of fase, to keep it from destructing. Like Sm said in the pdf, the tpu must be a bit out of fase, like a radio.

Like driving a car full trottle, controlling the speed with the brake pedal.

Maybe this idea has been posted previously.... then I appologize, also for my spelling, as english is not my native language.

greetings Rene

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 22, 2008, 07:59:03 AM
Questions have been asked about phasing the signal, for example through a crossover system. This is done so that the signals reach a driver in a speaker "out of phase" with each other to the proper degree, so that a flat baffle can be used and yet have the sound reach you at the proper phasing  point so that it is extremely clear. (High-end audio speakers using flat baffle.) It is NOT generally done through the crossover. The crossover splits the single signal containing the full spectrum of audial frequencies into ranges, (Low pass, Bandpass, and High pass) then sends each signal to its respective driver.  The phasing is done through >Phasing Coils<. One wavelength (middle frequency of each frequency range to be Phased) is calculated, then a coil wound from a wire of the proper length to the desired fraction, corresponding directly to a degree of phasing is used for each driver.

How can this be used for single signal phasing in a TPU?

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/images/wirephasing.jpg)

Explanation 1.

One full wavelength is shown. Below it are three separate conductors of lengths matching 1/4, 1/2, and 1 wavelength. Notice the position of each, in respect with the wavelength above it. Electricity travels at the same speed through each, so it will only traverse 1/4 of a wavelength, before exiting the first wire, 1/2 for the second, etc..

Explanation 2.

If the three wires are connected to the same input, then the signal will exit each wire at a different point in its cycle. For instance, we will use an arbitrary number just to demonstrate the point. Say for the sake of argument that it took the electricity 1 second to flow through the 1 wavelength wire, then the half wavelength wire, being half the length, would exit after only 1/2 of a second, and the 1/4 wavelength wire a blazing 1/4 second.

What this means is that the signal out of each would be then out of phase with the others. Remember that one full wave represents 360 degrees of phase (one full cycle). If the signal is applied as to the input point in the pic, it will exit at 1/4 wavelength, or 90 degrees out of phase with the same signal measured at the input point. The 1/2 wavelength wire will be 180 degrees out of phase, and the full wavelength wire would be exactly in phase.

This technique would work for 90 degree phasing (2 or 4 control coils opposing each other).

But what about 120 degree phasing for three coil setups? EASY, as it is 1/3 wavelength! One fu1/3, one 2/3, and one full wavelength! (120, 240 and 360 degrees respectively.)

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 22, 2008, 08:29:57 AM
By the way, that was down home Tesla style tech in the last post about phasing.

I have been away for the last few days, so will try to play "catch up" so to speak on the posts.

@ loner & "Dumb little add on"

I did not know that. That is cool. They were using the standing waves in a waveguide (piece of transmission line coax) to STORE digital info? I would not have thought of that, at ALL. EVER. It would work, yes it would work... That is neat.

@loner & hall effect

It might well work, give it a try. (ONLY way to know for sure.) I never considered that it might be a hall effect transistor...... GOOD job!

To answer your question in the post, it could well be. (I'm officially impressed. :) )

Concerning your pic. The coils would be out of phase (see reason in phasing pic I posted) if of differing lengths, unless you wound them with a full extra wavelength of wire to compensate. (this can be quite huge depending upon frequency).

@Spider

Why do you think the collectors feed the control coils..? (I am interested. We are under the assumption that the effect is inductive in some manner. ) Please post you concept, as I would really like to know.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 22, 2008, 09:53:29 AM
I can tell I am tired. It is 2:49 in the morning here, and I just got a wacky idea....

ONE control coil, close wound around the entire circumference, with a DC pulse circuit controlled by a hall effect transistor located close to, but not AT the end of the winding......

The field would build throughout the coil, but the next pulse would hit before the field could completely collapse, etc.........

I have no clue what it would do.....

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Thaelin on April 22, 2008, 12:21:45 PM
Hi Paul:
I too up at all hours but then I work 12h compressed shift. I have an idea I would like to throw your way for input, or any for that matter. Your pic of using one signal to gen out of phase signals had this thought. In reality what we are after is a revolving magnetic rotor per se.
Lets take that signal, no matter what frequency, and have one full length go to one wire wrapped around a collector. Now take the other one at 1/2 length and go to another wire wrapped around another collector.  In my head this should make a circuit potential 180 degrees out of phase with each other. This would then in fact make a DC potential across both collectors of twice the signal. Does that add up right to you?  Ok now add a coil wrapped around both sets and you should see an AC signal there useable for local power and an output power from the two collectors.
Tell me what you think.

thaelin
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: hydrocontrol on April 22, 2008, 02:46:55 PM
@All.. I have really enjoyed reading this thread. It has been a very professional discussion compared to other threads around here lately. I hope this keeps up.  :D

In another thread on the TPU I posted the message below considering it does pertain to rotating magnetic fields as being discussed here but being used in a motor instead.

One thing to think about is the use of capacitors to cause magnetic field rotation in three separate coils. I will refer to the Rotoverter diagram here
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Image:Rv002.jpg
to show a three phase motor running on only one phase using capacitors to cause field rotation in the three windings of the motor to cause rotor rotation. Perhaps having only one signal that is connected in a such a WYE coil configuration might be simpler for a TPU. For a TPU the capacitors would not have to be that large compared to a 3 phase motor. Perhaps about the size of a small AA battery..
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 22, 2008, 04:15:27 PM
Think why don't we put metal objects in a microwave oven.  Then think why do we put ferrite beads around wires we don't want highfrequency to pass.  Then consider the magnetic energy available from the Earth field that creates the so called back emf.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Motorcoach1 on April 23, 2008, 07:30:28 PM
Heres a Thought , Ive been reading up on Gabriel Kron and the Del-Phy paths. I see some people say when the coil gets a ring the voltage goes up on the power supply. this may be because the path is open still and the path needs to be closed, Looking at a studying the Bedini circuit  and testing the SG I found out much about aether and Lemllar effects. and this system works and works very well. If you replace the batteries with coils you should get something it may not be much but something. Now look at the Royer fly-back circuit (just the transistors and the first coils , The secondary would be wrapped around a very thin iron wire in the center with an air gap from the primary. Resonance will give you a field but we need to turn that into mechanical work.  The royer would be 2 Bedini circuits back to back so the aether flows in a closed loop . I would try with one first and see and then add the other , the coils should just slide on the wire with a good insulator between them.           http://www.rexresearch.com/bedini/bedini.htm       Please read this very carefully John gives some real good info here and I believe he did it in hast and has some interesting thoughts in the bottom of the page answering Emails .    standard EE math gets us to the coils and getting the ring the math stops because we can't measure thr resonant field or ather affects. This is where SM said he didn't know why it works , it just does. but the thing he said that was so correct was that the pulse had to be stoped , this may be so the BEMF doesn't destroy the athier feild and keeps the loop closed . this is what the Bedini circut does.    As Bruce say;s Cheeers     Mike
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: EMdevices on April 23, 2008, 08:57:17 PM
Paul,  I see things a bit different in that FTPU.
EM
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 23, 2008, 08:57:35 PM
@ Motorcoach

The aether is analogous to a gass.  It is also displaced by energy.  Constant competition between the aether gass and energy forms for the same space and time coordinates.  The tpu spins up the aether fluid.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 24, 2008, 02:05:39 AM
@Thaelin

When I try to envision what you are saying, I am generally coming up with something I have a feeling is NOT what you are trying to describe. Can you draw a quick picture in paint? (or gimp or whatever drawing prog you use. Or even scan a drawing.) One of my two working neurons needs its distributer adjusted today. My engine is misfiring :D

Unless I can "see" in my mind what is going on, I cannot understand it. Personal foible.

@motorcoach

I am going to do some research and get back to you. I am not familiar with all of what you are talking about. Thanks for the heads up.

@EM

I see what you are getting at. I didn't even pay attention to the "little tabs", I was referring to the little black "tab like thingies" on TOP of the big toroid. I will explain more in a little bit.

Coil placement, and number of turns, both determine symmetry. Notice that the gap between the coils on the back, is not only bigger than the front (which with an optical distortion would be reversed), but the wire angles are also different (which could be distortion by angle of view).  At the minimum, even if the coils are of equal size, they are not evenly space on the toroid, which definitely affects the angle and shape of the magnetic fields in a sensitive pulsed system.

Notice one thing, which makes me love this pic better than the other "polished" tpu pics. Namely, that it is obviously a crude prototype. Hastily applied sealant around the edges, parts in plain view all over the place, generally crude overall construction out of makeshift materials.... The true "close to first draft" device. Make it work, THEN make it pretty principle.

In the video, enough of the device is shown to demonstrate semi-side shots of the device, which gave us a view that is hidden here, namely that he used some kind of spool as the foundation base of the device, and that there are absolutely NO tubes in evidence, unless he placed them into the center column of the device, which I seriously doubt. The battery powering the device could well be hidden in this space though.

Remember also that SM said the "kick effect" that he was after is what destroys tubes quickly in the ham receiver story? (For those tube fans, sorry.) This seriously makes me doubt that he used tubes in a device which would by nature demand constant replacement with short life span. THAT is why he mentioned mosfets....

Now, power Mosfets need heat sinks if carrying any kind of current, but can sink a small current (much bigger than a normal transistor) without a heatsink if placed in a spot where air can circulate freely around the Mosfet. IE THE TOP OF THE DEVICE! :o That is why I think the three little black tabs, out in the middle of nowhere, are either mosfets, triacs, high power transistors, or scrs. (TO220 case devices)

The little tabs you pointed out could well be holding a phenolic circuit board in place, upon which the toroids are connected.... Good observation. They could also well be a TO220 device mounted in a circuit board as well. (right size and shape, and I refuse to discount anything without enough data)

I have compared the small device again, closely scrutinizing your cap idea. I still hold fast that the picture is clear enough to demonstrate a small toroid. (by the looks of it a standard sized one as well) I don't however see a capacitor no matter how I look at the picture. I will look again, to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe I should post an unmodified view and a provide a download link of the same pic, then have everyone point out what exactly what they "see" and where. This is easy with Paint, to do like we did. (There is safety in a multitude of counselors.)

@all

Concerning last statement made to EM... Does that sound like a good idea to you people? If anyone wants to participate, I will do just that.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Spider on April 24, 2008, 07:31:42 PM
@Paul,

Sorry for my delayed post but I think its ever so polite to reply if someone says something to me.

About my picture, I think I was wrong the day I made it. Today I threw together some coils to get some hands on experience myself.
Today I think the control coils, the 4 ones wound around the larger horizontal coils, generate a voltage/current for each horizontal coil that is fed back into the control circuit to make a closed loop control system. I think 2 horizontal coils are fed with pulses, slightly out of fase to get them resonating, and the third picks up the energy.

Greetings Rene
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Feynman on April 26, 2008, 10:31:45 AM
Okay, first of all, I have just read through the entire thread.  Paul, I think your ideas here are excellent. You should not listen to detractors who have nothing to contribute.

Update:

I have finished the Arduino microcontroller protocol, including the implementation and circuitry.  The device is called Gemini.  I will tell you how to build it with full plans and part list for free.  If you want I can also build one for you.  Gemini is far better then 555 timers.  It has four internal precision oscillators, and generates square waves 1khz - 67Mhz with rise time of 2ns or less (two billionth of a second).  You can set the oscillation frequencies from your computer over USB.  You can use Gemini to drive most any N-channel MOSFET or small signal vacuum tube.

This is what I think now and why:

Background:

1) The TPU devices are 100% real.
Other people have elaborated on these reasons better than I can.

2) The "magnet activation" was a ruse.
I think this was a reed switch or hall IC which closed the initial loop.  This goes along with SM's deceptive flair.

3) SM intended to make billion\$ on the device.
This explains why he did as much as he could to protect the secret of its workings.  However, he did give away  some vague and general information.

4) SM's technical ability is consistently underestimated.
From reading the e-mail correspondence, it is clear SM had extensive hands-on EE knowledge.

Technical:

1) The TPU is an active device.
What I mean by this is I believe the TPU is not a passive device like an LC tank; instead, I assume it has active switching electronics (MOSFETs or tubes).

2) The TPU control coils use DC, not AC.
I think these devices work by induction of a longitudinal and/or magnetic component which rotates inside the TPU.  The reason I say DC is for several reasons.  First, the circuitry is simpler than AC.  Second, SM seems to suggest kicks come from DC, when he quotes how Tesla observes radiant energy at Edison's DC power plant.

Quote
When the old Edison DC generators were turned on, back in the day, they released this 'kick' and killed many workers in the process.
...
[Tesla] discharged capacitors into stout wire and through a spark gap.
The key to the kick's strength and appearance was in how fast Tesla discharged the capacitors into the spark gap AND how fast Tesla STOPPED the flow of current AT the spark gap.
-Steven Mark

SM is talking about the kicks appearing on a spark gap during a sharp gradient of DC current.  As aleks mentioned,  a spark gap discharge will resemble a saw wave (sharp Tr, softer Trr).  But SM states here that stronger kicks come from also stopping the current flow as quickly as possible.  This must imply a SQUARE wave... sharp ON, sharp OFF.

3) SM's devices used SQUARE waves (not SINE!).

Quote
"I assumed that anyone working on technology this sophisticated would have a superior
knowledge of electronics and an understanding of PURE frequency output being a Necessity to
control the reactions going on inside the collector.
-Steven Mark"

SM mentions pure frequency.  Pure frequency is not necessarily sine.  There are four major pure frequencies: SINE, SQUARE, SAW, and TRIANGLE.  We have ruled out SINE because it does not contain the sharp gradient.  But let's examine another aspect anyway... sine waves have 30% less energy  square waves!    A "phat" bassline is almost always saw or square waves.

Example:

The simplest and most robust wave that can be generated in electronic circuits are square waves. These would have also been easy to generate using components from the early 1990s.  To review again why I think SM's TPUs cannot be using sine waves, and is instead must be using square waves (or perhaps saw).

A) Sine waves do not contain a sharp gradient (Tesla's spark gap,etc).
B) Sine waves have 30% less energy than square waves.
C) Sine waves are much more difficult to generate in circuits.
D) Sine waves rate of change is too slow (dV/dT is not steep)
E) Square waves have highest energy content.
F) Square waves contain sharp gradient
G) Square waves explain the need for fast transit times.
H) Square waves are easiest to generate electronically.

4) SM's devices operated well below 1Mhz, though he used VHF tubes. What gives?

Some people have expressed confusion that SM mentions a VHF tube(30-300Mhz)...

Quote
I am using 6BQ7-A tubes for the input and phase inverter because they are VHF amplifier triodes -Steven Mark

However, the measured output/input freqs on his devices were 5khz - 235khz.  Why use 300Mhz tubes then?

The answer is simple.  SM said it himself.
Quote
Vacuum tubes have EXTREAMLY FAST TRANSIT TIMES.
Solid state devices are like molasses!

Let's examine a regular transistor you'd find during the 1990s.  Why wouldn't SM use it? The oldest I could find was a 2N3904 from 1997-1999.

NPN (2N3904 from 1999)
(http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1968/2n3904rter9.jpg)

This transistor can switch up to 300Mhz.   Not bad.    So why doesn't SM like it?    Well, as shown above, you can see the rise times and latency are pretty sad... but wow, the shut off time is just atrocious!  And this is from 1999!  Imagine what it was like in 1985-1992!     SM never needed the VHF frequency;  he was after the tube's FAST TRANSIT times, aka. low latency and fast rise and fall times.  But Of Course...Fast transit makes no sense for sine waves.  It only makes sense for square waves.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Feynman on April 26, 2008, 11:33:30 AM
@paul, all
To get back to the original topic of the post (regarding the rotational component of pulsed square waves), I found an interesting chip...

This IC produces square waves at programmable frequency... the cool part is it provides four outputs that are exactly 90 degrees shifted in phase!.

(http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/9818/ltc69021io6.jpg)

(http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4647/ltc69022jg8.jpg)

(http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/8023/ltc69043bi5.jpg)

Perhaps a good experiment would be to run three 90degree phase-shifted signals into the three control coils?  On the other hand,  I can't imagine SM was doing this with 1992 technology.  Unless of course he was using tuned delay lines.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Feynman on April 26, 2008, 01:06:29 PM
@Loner

Thanks.  As for the collector coils, who knows what we get in those!  Probably some highly nonlinear stuff.

Quote
I don't think anything special as far as controllers will be necessary. . .  the absolute freq may very well be in 555
In terms of the frequency range, even the cheapest 555s on the market today go up to 300kHz.  However, the rise/fall on a 555 can be as bad as 110-250ns, or as good as 10-15ns.  So it really depends on what brand 555 you are using.   One of the reasons I made the device shown here is because it has a rise/fall time of 2ns or better.   Furthermore, the computer control of the oscillators lets us automate data collection and save a lot of tedious switching of resistor/capacitor values
on a 555 timer.

Here is a picture of Gemini:
(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6265/p1000687spk3.jpg)

left: 2 x LTC6904 1khz - 67Mhz programmable oscillators
center: 2 x OPA633 high speed buffers
center bottom: 1 x Arduino Microcontroller w/ USB
right: 2 x IRF840 500V/8A high--power MOSFETs
far right: relay (not used)

Quote
Seeing some of the ideas of different materials, and noting that SM stated he couldn't mention the composition
of the Collector coils, sorta points me in that direction.  Why say that if they were copper?

This is sort of where I am stuck too... materials construction.  ;)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 26, 2008, 04:11:03 PM
I posted two pictures below about coil design and collectors.  There is a question mark box.
For experimental data you could put a bucket of water there and pulse the solenoid at various freqs and measure the temp rise of the water.  Best to put some iron plate in there to catch the smoke ring.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: rhombus24 on April 27, 2008, 12:28:13 AM
A light bulb does not put out coherent light in any form....?????
It is laser that outputs coherent light. Light source working in a laser does not have to be coherent. Laser's "reflective chamber" produces coherent light and that's why it becomes powerful and thin.

Protons are positively charged, and electrons negatively charged.
Protons are not just 'positively charged', they are lacking 1 electron. This is a different thing than some 'positive charge'.

A permanent magnet has within itself a moving electric charge, due to the availability of free electrons within the atomic structure, the structure of electron shells of certain atoms, and peculularities of molecular alignment and interaction within the overall particular magnetic substance.....????
I'm not sure this correct. If they had an electrical field they would produce an electrical potential.

Concerning the electron/magnetic field/books.... what books????
Well, I've surfed Internet for this information. In many places there were references to real books. Of course, I can't give you these references, but you may use a websearch for these keywords - you'll likely to find a relevant information.

A "lack of charge" is called neutrally charged, not positively charged. It is by definition NOT of ANY charge.....?????
Neutral charge is not a "lack of charge". Neutrally-charged particle is when all protons have electrons attached to them. Proton is like a "charge hole". It is in this respect becomes a "positive charge", because it really is lacking 1 electron charge. It may have some special "positive charge" field associated with it, but I've never read about that.

An ion, by basic definition is a charged atom or molecule. Free charged particles themselves are called ionizing radiation....????? You have me really confused here. (Just being honest.)
No, ionizing radiation is EM waves of high energy that produces ions by "bombarding" atoms and molecules.

I am not trying to insult you. I truly am not, but your responses to this last post make absolutely no sense to me, from the physics standpoint. If you are trying to speak a concept, and do not have the proper words to express your concepts, please state so and I will try to interpret. I do not fault anyone for this.
In this latest discussion I'm not talking concepts. This is what I've understood and learned. The only concept I was talking is "DC acoustical waves" which frankly saying do not interfere with any other physical phenomena. It only adds a tiny bit. And it is not an aether in common sense like a gaseous substance. DC acoustical waves are virtual as much as photons are virtual particles.

Ok I have to clear some things up here before this thread goes crazy, if it hasn't already :).  I feel this thread is one of the most important if not THE most important on the TPU topic.

@aleks
I first started reading your posts and thought you had no knowlege as to electronics, then you said some things that only someone with actual knowledge in the field would know.  Then you screw it up again fighting with paul who has said some of the most important things I have ever heard.  You are wrong about the laser, it does work by causing electrons to shift levels, and no a mirror and light is not a true LASER it is a focused light source, I mean cmon dude you should really think about what you say but OK.

An electron DOES NOT have a missing proton that causes it to be negativly charged.  That only happens with atoms.  Just that really makes me think how much you know about anything to do with particle physics.

@paul
Not just good but excellent insights to this.  I almost completly agree with everything you've posted on the major parts.  Like I hadn't really been thinking along the lines of a rotating magnetic field.  Now I KNOW that is the key to this device.  After this post I will go and build a nice coil setup and drivers for a rotater setup.  No collector just pure rotating field and study its effects to different things.  BTW all I have is a cold war era scope that Im borrowing from my neighbor who is a nuclear physicist.  Of course his opinion behing all this is that free energy is impossible but can you really blame any physicist for thinking this way.

BTW most of them you can't because everyone knows how hard it is to take something that you have been told is impossible for years and then just suddenly take it as fact.

So please just stop the constant arguements for who knows the most about phyics, most of us are not engineers so let's theorize and build , when we get results then we can try and figure out what is actually going on, but we cant do that becuase no one has built a wroking OU model yet..
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 27, 2008, 12:52:35 AM
The torroidal configuration SM used is not necessary to get free energy from the phenomenon it  exploits.  It is poorly designed with no intrinsic safeguards.
Please review the below circuit.  This circuit is now incorporated in Tesla
Howitzers.  (replace the little battery circuit with a dc ionizing field).
Now imagine taking the barrel of a gun and bending it into a ring firing a bullet that makes more gunpowder and detonates it every time it comes around.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 27, 2008, 08:22:52 AM
@aleks
I first started reading your posts and thought you had no knowlege as to electronics, then you said some things that only someone with actual knowledge in the field would know.  Then you screw it up again fighting with paul who has said some of the most important things I have ever heard.  You are wrong about the laser, it does work by causing electrons to shift levels, and no a mirror and light is not a true LASER it is a focused light source, I mean cmon dude you should really think about what you say but OK.

An electron DOES NOT have a missing proton that causes it to be negativly charged.  That only happens with atoms.  Just that really makes me think how much you know about anything to do with particle physics.
Do not start this again please, re-read what I've written. It is proton that lacks electron, not otherwise. About lasers, read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser and check out its principal components. While 'stimulated emission' is important in real-world lasers, it is not the basis of laser work, and the only energy they receive is via external light or electricity source. Otherwise lasers would be perpetuum mobile devices (or COP>1 devices). So, it's still some form of reflection - this is what I was saying. In other words, it is a process of Q factor change in the photon energy probability space: the peak of probability increases while side-lobes of probability distribution function shrink. In signal processing this is usually achieved by some forms of feedback: be it via reflective surfaces or via some internal atomic feedback.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 27, 2008, 12:45:16 PM
@Rhombus

Hi!

Go next door some time and ask your neuclear scientist guy  if electrons have mass.  Then ask him.   Why do neuclear power plants find it necessary to mess around with the neuclear mass when there is a guy on the internet that says you can convert some of the mass of the electron into energy.

You can also tell him that radio frequency excitation of spent neuclear fuel rods can render them null within minutes instead of 20 or 30 thousand years.
Should rock his world a little. :D

@alecks     have you taken the time to compress more knowlege of the kick phenomenon ? ;)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: FatBird on April 27, 2008, 03:27:15 PM
Great schematic Mr Sparks.

Can you please label which winding is copper & which iron.
Can you also please label where the output is.

Thank you.
.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on April 27, 2008, 03:48:01 PM
Green is iron wire   copper color is copper :)  output will be whatever you want to intercept a very fast changing magnetic field flux.  A regular iron core transformer should give you dual voltages.  Low voltage high amps out of the primary or high voltage low amps out of the secondary.  You can couple one of these outputs to a capacitor to store the power from the kicks and buidt a pulse generator later to initiate the pulse.  Core should be plastic with a small winding in there to saturate it magnetically.  You could also use a permanent magnet.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 27, 2008, 04:29:46 PM
@alecks     have you taken the time to compress more knowlege of the kick phenomenon ? ;)
It's not necessary anymore. The more I read the more I become assured that this whole overunity thing is about DC acoustic (phonon) waves, and in some cases about equal frequency heterodyning (e.g. when two processes of the same frequency produce opposing forces with nullifying movement - like oscillation of two closely standing membranes - halfwave they are oscillating, halfwave they are standing still stopped by each others motion - maybe even Casimir force is about this and not about quantum ZPE Dirac space). The only complex thing in this understanding is finding the method of utilizing this DC acoustic wave component to gain energy. The main problem is that this DC wave component is not a particle nor transversal nor longitudal wave. It is a third type of wave. If conditions are rather ambient creation of this DC wave component may not produce any serious change on the surrounding matter and energy levels. So, in order to gain any energy either a very powerful DC wave component should be created (e.g. via high-power discharge or explosion), or a rather "fluid" energy field should be created (e.g. varying magnetic field) that can react on even small DC wave component, and then normally induce displacement current that corresponds to this change. My previous reasoning was solely based on these ideas.

I do not really think neutrinos should be added to this equation. What I'm talking about is a way to gain pure energy. And I mean pure: this energy is produced out of nowhere, it does not require molecular or atomic destruction (if used correctly).
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Eden on April 27, 2008, 06:29:11 PM
@alecks     have you taken the time to compress more knowlege of the kick phenomenon ? ;)
It's not necessary anymore. The more I read the more I become assured that this whole overunity thing is about DC acoustic (phonon) waves, and in some cases about equal frequency heterodyning (e.g. when two processes of the same frequency produce opposing forces with nullifying movement - like oscillation of two closely standing membranes - halfwave they are oscillating, halfwave they are standing still stopped by each others motion - maybe even Casimir force is about this and not about quantum ZPE Dirac space). The only complex thing in this understanding is finding the method of utilizing this DC acoustic wave component to gain energy. The main problem is that this DC wave component is not a particle nor transversal nor longitudal wave. It is a third type of wave. If conditions are rather ambient creation of this DC wave component may not produce any serious change on the surrounding matter and energy levels. So, in order to gain any energy either a very powerful DC wave component should be created (e.g. via high-power discharge or explosion), or a rather "fluid" energy field should be created (e.g. varying magnetic field) that can react on even small DC wave component, and then normally induce displacement current that corresponds to this change. My previous reasoning was solely based on these ideas.

I do not really think neutrinos should be added to this equation. What I'm talking about is a way to gain pure energy. And I mean pure: this energy is produced out of nowhere, it does not require molecular or atomic destruction (if used correctly).

this sounds like Tom Bearden's theory.
This also seems to be a logical evolution....!

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on April 27, 2008, 08:22:28 PM
this sounds like Tom Bearden's theory.
This also seems to be a logical evolution....!
It's all good if correct. It's also nice to see Tom Bearden announced availability of 'Radiant' commercial products: http://energenx.com/products.html This is a strong step since as you know if they can't stand their advertisement claims they can be sued easily. Still no claimed overunity, but who knows? When you are charging your battery it's hard to compare grid power to battery charge power, it costs pennies to charge a battery so nobody will really care if his device gives COP 1.1, for example. ;) But of course it's a huge step if even generally invisible.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Feynman on April 27, 2008, 08:58:44 PM
Haha, awesome.  I'm going to buy one.

11. Can the Solid State chargers be used for Overunity Applications?

The only Bedini Battery charger products now in production are strictly designed for battery rejuvenation and longevity and not for overunity purposes.

We are not testing them for overunity applications as they are designed for the purposes of rejuvenating old batteries and maintaining new and used batteries only. While they are very efficient, efficiency in energy conservation is not at all our primary goal. And we have never made any claims of overunity about the Renaissance Charge, LLC products.

In regards to the RC-2A12, the power supply alone produces most of the losses as can be seen by the heat. And in order to reduce the wasted energy consumption considerably a much more expensive product would have to be made. Our costs are already very high and we cannot afford to raise the price higher for the consumer in order to get higher efficiency out of it.

If other people have tested these products and found overunity, we are not aware of it. However, if you consider that you can rejuvenate useless batteries to working condition again, then this can be considered free in a sense as you are gaining a battery that was useless.

Because the purpose of the chargers are to be used in homes and plugged into the AC 110/220V grid, we have limitations on this charger. We have safety features that protect the circuitry from disconnect, wrong polarity, and from shock. We also have to have it limited to 12V batteries. These and other necessary features do prevent the chargers from being used as a device to connect up to other circuits or systems. When people attempt to use the chargers for other purposes then they void the warranty.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: otto on April 28, 2008, 08:05:37 AM
Hello all,

@Feynman

A combination of sine waves + kicks??

Otto
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 28, 2008, 08:15:39 AM
@Feynman

Okay, first of all, I have just read through the entire thread.  Paul, I think your ideas here are excellent. You should not listen to detractors who have nothing to contribute.

Update:

I have finished the Arduino microcontroller protocol, including the implementation and circuitry.  The device is called Gemini.  I will tell you how to build it with full plans and part list for free.  If you want I can also build one for you.

Don't offer, if you are not serious, as I will take you up on it in a heartbeat. :D

@all

Due to the experiments conducted over the last week, I have determined that each coil may well be specific to a design frequency, which should be no real surprise to anyone at this point. The size (diameter) of the collector coils, and the characteristics, size, and placement of the control coils determine the necessary input frequencies. I started to see a drastic increase in voltage output at around 4.9Mhz (I threw the coil setup together) which is from poor designing during the "thunking" stage. I've also noticed a drastic waveform changes.

However, I cannot push the overclocked 555 any higher, (2.7mhz MAX cmos 555 timer stabilized in its timing circuit with two signal diodes and a NPN transistor to help regulate internal waveform, thus keeping the waveform as close to 50% duty cycle as possible in the timing circuit itself. Circuit Diagram somewhere earlier in this thread.) and my highest frequency  (B&K) generator only goes to 5mhz.

I have noticed some interesting things:

1. A horizontal coil should not magnetically interact much with a vertical coil..... Yet my scope set on dual channel, comparing the controls to the collectors were showing obviously something happening, as the output waveforms from each were matching, and on XY I had a somewhat circular pattern (for those whom know what this means)...... :)

2. Small, improperly designed coils may well work..... OUTSIDE YOUR FREQUENCY GENERATING CAPABILITY (Ugggghhhhh. :( ) No wonder so many have come so close, but never were "there", so to speak. The results thus far gained are from WEAK harmonics (possibly 3rd or 4th from a much smaller wavelength higher actual design frequency)

3. AM "Nodes" appear at a harmonic. Switching through the scopes frequency ranges demonstrated various superimposed waveforms, upon the original waveform through Amplitude Modulation. (unless 60hz is measured in microseconds, it is not line interference... :D )

4. At such resonance, very small frequency bandwidth changes drastically affect the voltage on the collectors.

Noting all this could well spark some insight. Hopefully they were worth jotting down.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 28, 2008, 08:51:46 AM
@Feynman and Loner

Concerning collector coil material...

There is a simple solution if Air core. Figure the circumference of your desired toroid. Cut a hollow flexible tube to this length. Wind your controls on this tube. Cut one (or more) wire(s) of ordinary copper at > circumference x 2 + 4 inches <.

Push through tube until only 2 inches remain. Bend wire(s) around and reinsert into tube and push through. Bend tube until other end protrudes. Pull both ends until you have your desired toroid. (Until tube ends meet.)

This gives you a testing toroid, in which you can find the right frequency which gives best results. You can at any time cut the copper wire and replace with another material, without having to re-wind the controls, and the frequency will stay the same....... :D

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: BEP on April 28, 2008, 01:45:41 PM
1. A horizontal coil should not magnetically interact much with a vertical coil..... Yet my scope set on dual channel, comparing the controls to the collectors were showing obviously something happening, as the output waveforms from each were matching, and on XY I had a somewhat circular pattern (for those whom know what this means)...... :)

Sorry to butt in.....

When looking at magnetic coupling between coils, perpendicular to each other.... Induction still occurs. The magnetic is still crossing the secondary wire. The pulse width will be related to the time it takes for the field to cross the diameter of the wire. Hence - extremely short pulses in-phase with the primary.
I found this is a good way to create incredibly short pulses from a circuit that isn't capable of short pulses.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Feynman on April 28, 2008, 04:46:04 PM
Hey pauldude,

Good to hear you are making some progress. . . a few questions...

How many control coils are you using?  What is the configuration of your collectors (2xparallel/1xseries, etc)?
What voltage are your control input signals? And what diameter is your TPU?

As for replicating the computer controlled oscillator, you need:

Arduino: \$35, http://sparkfun.com
Three LTC6904 programmable oscillators: \$3/each, http://digikey.com
Three OPA633 buffers: \$9/each, http://digikey.com

And lastly, you probably want your choice of amplification, which generally will be either a fast MOSFET driver/high-speed MOSFET, or a vacuum triode like the 12AX7.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Feynman on April 28, 2008, 05:12:53 PM
(http://www.mindsensors.com/images/pagemaster/i2ccompass.jpg)

CMP2X is a digital magnetic compass, which can be used in I2C mode to detect deviation from magnetic north pole (heading). It appears as 24xx series EPROM, with a different I2C address. This compass uses orthogonal two-axis magnetic sensor from Honeywell (HMC1052).
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 28, 2008, 07:21:47 PM
Hey pauldude,

Good to hear you are making some progress. . . a few questions...

How many control coils are you using?  What is the configuration of your collectors (2xparallel/1xseries, etc)?
What voltage are your control input signals? And what diameter is your TPU?

I decided on this build to go with 4 control coils, equal length wires approx 12ft. long,  placed 90degrees out geometrically (4 quadrants of the circle). Dont ask me why, as I did it out of pure curiosity, but I used an iron wire core (galvanized steel wire used to hang pictures), approx 1/4 in diameter. 6 turn collector coil on the inside surface of the core for extremely close coupling w/core. Total core diameter approx 5 inches.

Assembly of the unit:

Wound iron core, black taped entire ring. Wound collector, black taped tightly to toroid core. Wound collectors directly upon core/collector toroid, using 3 layer linear windings. IE Wind first layer, bring wire back to start, then wind next layer. (I wanted all current flowing in the same direction geometrically for field properties.) The control coils have 2 1/2" pigtails to allow for connection testing in various configurations.

Coil arrangement:

I have tested series, series parallel, and individually pulsed using what I am going to call my linear phasing device (woo-hoo! More like whoopdie-doo.  ;) Four wires, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, 1 respective in lengths to each other.

I have had the most interesting results with individually pulsed using the linear phasing device.

Voltages/supplies:

I have two signal generators (B&K 5mhz and an el-cheapo digital 2mhz), and my 555 circuit.

The best results have come from the B&K as w/the 555 I was using direct pulsing, and this 555 only sinks 200ma. (not much field strength with my windings. Will hook up some BUZ11's or some IRF840's later.)

Voltage is completely variable 0-15v on my B&K, and I have tried low/med/high. Higher voltage is producing greater results at this point, but that is due to not being at the proper frequencies I think, as any voltage at the highest freq setting produces more output than lower freq's.

I intend to start writing down a log. As I tried so many experiments I am losing track of anything more than approximations, and notebooks are cheap.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: rhombus24 on April 29, 2008, 04:20:06 AM
@Rhombus

Hi!

Go next door some time and ask your neuclear scientist guy  if electrons have mass.  Then ask him.   Why do neuclear power plants find it necessary to mess around with the neuclear mass when there is a guy on the internet that says you can convert some of the mass of the electron into energy.

You can also tell him that radio frequency excitation of spent neuclear fuel rods can render them null within minutes instead of 20 or 30 thousand years.
Should rock his world a little. :D

@alecks     have you taken the time to compress more knowlege of the kick phenomenon ? ;)

Actually that's pretty funny because thats exactly what I told him before.  Of course when free energy was uttered he instantly said there is no such thing.  Then I went on to explain that electrons have mass and that they can be exploited.  Then he went on to talk about very complex things that I was able to somewhat follow on but not completly grasp the concept.  The thing is when people here free energy they take it just the way you would be expected to take something like that, nonsense.  So you have to make the effort and explain to them that the energy is not really free, it does come from somewhere but that it is free as in it exists within everything.  The potential is everywhere there is nowhere you can look that it is not available.

But of course propaganda and centuries of fierce opposition leads the world to belive there is no such thing, and the thing I have heard most often is "Why hasn't someone else invented it."

Anyway great explanation Feynman I really think this entire thread is one of the most important ones ever created!

I am looking into chips to use, I would use yours as it seems awesome but I just don't know what I'm going to get yet.
Keep up the good work!

@alecks
Look I just wanted you to stop fighting over basic and really unrelated physics.  I read an entire page on you fighting.. at least it isn't as bad as Grumpy when someone tries to challenge him :)  but seriously we don't need fighting like that it wastes space and time
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: AhuraMazda on April 29, 2008, 03:37:10 PM

On the effect of switching magnets at right angles:

http://www.embedded.com/news/embeddedindustry/201202955?_requestid=52099
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 29, 2008, 10:39:04 PM
>>>>>Post Edited<<<<<

@ALL

NEW PROGRAM AVAILABLE

Assuming that some are interested  ??? , I have uploaded a computer program to my site.

Will be useful for making any resonant frequency wire/coil.

I will build another here shortly using VB2008Express to make a better tool, then will post for all interested. ****COMPLETED AND UPLOADED****

Here is the direct link for download. File is zipped, with full setup program. Unzip and run setup.exe. Full uninstall capability.

http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/freq2len.zip (http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/freq2len.zip)

OTHER PROGS AVAILABLE:

Here are the other offerings at this point, all free, excellent and bug free done in VB2005Express for MSWindows (98 to vista).

Frequency Calculator: Very useful frequency tool. Calculates resonants, harmonics, beats, etc...

http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/frequencycalc.zip (http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/frequencycalc.zip)

Screen Capture: Tiny and simple to use screen capture utility (automatically stores in "pictures" or "my pictures" folders as "screencapture.bmp")

http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/screencapture.zip (http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/screencapture.zip)

I hope you guys find these useful, though the new freq2len when completed will be at least as nice as the frequency calculator program, with a full setup prog.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on April 30, 2008, 02:54:39 AM
@ Paul - My current build is pretty much like yours but with 3 segments instead of four, and no iron core. I really debated hard and long whether to include the core in this one, and decided against it this time. I've just now got it wound and plan to begin pulsing and scoping tonight or tomorrow. I'm looking forward to sharing our experiences.

@ All - Last week I said I would build a Rene-rator, which time has not allowed me to do yet. However, I found this really interesting page with a decent Rene-rator build, useful experimental documentation, and some in-depth, pertinent information about EM fields. Apologies if this has already been posted. http://magnetism.otc.co.nz/NaturalRelativity.htm (http://magnetism.otc.co.nz/NaturalRelativity.htm)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Thaelin on April 30, 2008, 04:35:21 AM
Hi Paul:
Doing a bit of catchup. Was in a parade so away for a bit.

If you will look back at post number 202, at the bottom you will see the 4 outputs. Look at the two that oppose each other. When one is high, the other is low. These two show how there would be double the potential  from both signals. ???? Yes?
That is the point I was trying to make. When SM talks about finding the potential of the circuit, that is how I see it.
If you send the same frequency down two wires of different lengths, at some point you can light a led across the two, you just have to find the spot.

thaelin
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 30, 2008, 10:20:58 AM
@ALL

New program built freq2len, and for simplicity, I used the same filename as I had for the old version. Just click on the same link above as for the old RapidQ program. New program is built with VB2008Express.

It will figure 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and 1 wavelengths of any given frequency, plus 1/3 and 2/3 for those using 120 degree offset. (Both 4/4 and 3/3 are the same as 1 wavelength. :) )

Frequency settings available are Hz, Khz, Mhz, and Ghz.

That ought to about be enough. :D

Let me know if any bugs. Uses .net 3.5 framework, so setup may require its download if you do not already have it. (You probably do already.)

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Feynman on April 30, 2008, 08:06:47 PM
This seems like a good point, that the LC circuit might be acting as sort of like a "PLL".  We were wondering earlier as to why SM said control circuit needs to be inside toroid.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on April 30, 2008, 10:10:23 PM
@Art

I can come up with the formula for coil inductance, and the formula for LC resonance. If you have an LC meter, you may just need the formula for LC...

I might as well look all this up again anyway, as it is always good to have the occasional refresher.

Trying to "calculate" the exact inductance of a home-brew coil can be a nightmare, so an LC meter is nice. I might just have to write another quick program!

Concerning VBExpress/vs/VB6.0.... I know that VB2005Express is compatible all the way back to Win98, and I am assuming VB2008Express is as well. However, both VB2005Express and VB2008Express are free to download and use, and may be used for private or commercial use, with no limitations from Microsoft.  I think they are feeling the breath of good quality, free programming languages such as BCX breathing down their proverbial neck. Also, it is truly OOP, unlike VB6.0(Semi-OOP).

The screen capture utility saves a lot of time and steps over printscreen. With printscreen, you have to run MS Paint (or equivalent), paste from the clipboard, then save the picture. With screencapture, you just click one button, and all this is done. Either way, the cropping is done in Paint or similar. It is just much faster, and with screencapture running, you can take multiple snapshots without running paint, as it does not overwrite, but saves the pictures as screencapture.bmp, screencapture(2).bmp, etc... Just handy for batch work, and simple for one-shot work.

On your questions, you were referencing the LC regulating circuit, do you think it passive or active? If passive, just through magnetic coupling? If active, then resonant reactive through the controls? ( Intellesting con-sept... To quote a speech I once heard. )

Either way, it may well explain the little toroid, and the reason for both toroids being within the circumference of the rotating field's perimeter.

I am preparing to do some more experimentation on another aspect of the mag field myself, but at this point do not know how relevant the results will be....yet.

I will play catch up here later, as I am rather short on time today for anything and everything. :)

Paul Andrulis

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 02, 2008, 01:55:41 AM
This post deleted: Will replace when image problems are fixed.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 02, 2008, 02:14:01 AM
@all

please ignore this junk post. I shall use it as an image linking testbed.

Paul

******
(http://pauldude000.987mb.com/TPU1.jpg)
******
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 02, 2008, 02:53:50 AM
Well, it has officially happened. Enough have viewed my pics that my geocities site is at 100%max data rate transfer this hour. If you wish to see or download them, you will have to come back in an hour...  :'(

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 02, 2008, 10:31:35 AM
@ALL

I am tired of the geocities problems, and my new hosting service doesn't allow cross-linking to pictures (I think), so I am in a quandary at the moment.

My new site will be the official hosting site for my programs though, and here is the link:

http://pauldude000.fr33webhost.com/index.html (http://pauldude000.fr33webhost.com/index.html)

I have a screenshot of the new wavelength calculator here to, as well as the old progs, on the download page.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Feynman on May 02, 2008, 08:45:58 PM
Hey Paul

Can you plz post your source codes when you get a chance?  Thanks
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 02, 2008, 09:22:14 PM
@Feynman

I can provide all the formulas and techniques, but unless you are using VB2008express, it wouldn't do you any good. VB2005&8 use solution (.sln) files, and a multitude of supporting files, and is fully OOP. Trying to port these would be much more than a pain. However, with the formulas, and the techniques for calculation, you could easily write your own. I do not even have the .sln for ScreenCapture, as my old laptop became toast, but I have the .sln for Frequency Calculator and the new Wavelength 2 Frequency, and I could post the relevant parts containing the formulas and conversions if you like.

I will require that the source NOT be used by others to design a commercial program, under any circumstance.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Feynman on May 02, 2008, 09:53:31 PM
Ah k, well it wasn't for commercial program, all the FE stuff I do is open-source/freeware.  I was going to port to C#, because I can't install .Net 3.5 for some reason.  Here's a 555 calculator I wrote.

http://feynmanslab.blogspot.com/2008/03/555-design.html
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 02, 2008, 11:07:11 PM
@Feynman

Attached is a rich text file (wordpad) which contains the necessary code for the calculation. Since you use C Sharp, porting should not be much of a prob for you.

@All

I am going to upload a zipped file for download of all of the images which were a prob in the previous post.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 02, 2008, 11:15:08 PM
@All

Attached are the TPU Connection Images, in three zips.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 02, 2008, 11:16:33 PM
Zip 2
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 02, 2008, 11:17:23 PM
zip 3
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 02, 2008, 11:20:34 PM
@All

If anyone knows of a good free website site which has decent file storage capacity, good bandwidth, and allows file hosting (hot-linking or cross-linking), please let me know.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 03, 2008, 10:19:46 AM
@Loner

There exist a couple of different way of hooking up, using components, using feedback, etc. which are not covered here. I will make some examples later. These are to demonstrate means of hooking up coils to allow for achievement of field rotation. I have made a PowerPoint presentation, and an Adobe Acrobat pdf file, if anyone is interested, with short descriptions of everything, and I intend to upload them to my website Sunday or Monday.. (I was bored, and I hadn't messed around with open-office's "impress" version of PowerPoint yet. Couldn't experiment at the bench because of the kids.... :D )

I intend to do another set with variations of components to modify current flow to achieve various objectives, such as artificial phasing etc... Will post them when I complete them. Would anybody desire some circuit pics as well?

(For instance, an astable MOSFET multivibrator circuit? Bet you didn't realize that you could use Mosfets directly AS your oscillator circuit now did you? Or push pull...... :D ) Them high speed fets can be used for more than just power switches. :) With such nice rise and fall and latency times, it is a sheer waste. (hint, instead of positive or negative sgd, think npn or pnp..... it truly does work. )

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on May 04, 2008, 03:17:09 AM
@ Paul - Good to see you're still at it. Good illustrations in the zips as well - I tried most of these combinations with my Tesla semi-replica. Lately I've been working with my 3-CC setup and have reached that point where I must employ some level of circuitry, like MOSFETs. Everything I've done up until now has pretty much been observation of AC-induced characteristics, and now it's DC time. But first I'm taking a few days to investigate the possibilities of the "mystery center toroid" that's being discussed in the Jack Durban Video thread, then I'll be back at it.

@ Loner - Just found your thread, posting as you test. This is most excellent! Kudos, sir. Oh - thanks for putting that whole silly reed-switch-as-commutator thing to rest. I'm glad someone finally did it.

@ Paul & TPU Group at large - It just so happens that one of my hats is ISP. I've got lots of servers and lots of storage capacity, and best of all I'm God on my network. I've been slowly building an area on one of my own Websites to hold the very type of thing Loner is posting in his thread, not to keep it separate from OverUnity.com but instead to allow me to post more photos and such without guilt of clogging up the Forum. I respect what Stefan is doing here and don't want to over-do it with my lame experiments, but I want to share them just the same.

So, Paul, I think I know a place that may be friendly to your request. We could do it a couple of ways, but I'd probably lean toward an anonymous FTP area with upload-only rights, allowing us to easily link to our pages/photos/files from these posts. Bandwidth and storage shouldn't be a problem until you create the fully-functional PaulDude000 TPU and become a celebrity, then you won't need me any more...
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on May 04, 2008, 03:27:24 AM
Sorry I have no supporting documentation just yet, but some is coming.

Using collector feedback into the CCs definitely makes a noticeable difference in my units, usually about 30-40% of output. In my 3-CC setup, the 2nd coil (121-240 degrees) is the most influential - monkeying with frequency and feedback on this coil noticeably changes the output bias. Best results I've had is feeding back into all three from one end of the collector, and placing the load on the other end. While not over-unity, I have been able to step up voltage considerably (20 Vpp from 4 VAC square input), rectify it into DC, and drive more LEDs than current drawn from the function generators would drive. Photos soon.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 04, 2008, 08:52:21 PM
@All

I just thought of something, which could get everyone on the "same  page" as to results, etc.....

One of the biggest problems to replicating a device, is that you have to build it pretty much exactly the same manner that it was built..... Not easy with hand wound coils! Considering that changes in coil diameter OR length OR winding spacing changes inductance, which changes resonant frequencies..... You then take in the sheer length of wires involved to resonate at any given low frequency, and you are talking ALOT of turns to exactly duplicate. OUCH....

The collector coils are not the problem here, it is the control coils which are a pain. Yet, for tiny experimental coils, there is a possible solution. Namely not having to wind the CC,s.....?

Hnhhhh??? (you ask wisely :D )

Amazingly enough, you can buy pre-wound CC's, which all have a computer controlled length of wire on a nice, easily mounted plastic spool. They are called by a different name, generally "magnet wire", and are generally relatively cheap. :)

Buying four of these gives you four factory wound even layered/spaced single wire CC's, WHICH SOMEONE ELSE CAN BUY TO REPLICATE YOUR RESULTS! This is also true of zip cord (speaker or lamp wire, etc...).....

Though not usefull for every type of winding scheme, it has its merits. Just a thought.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 04, 2008, 08:57:46 PM
@Buzz

This sounds possible (concerning website), lets talk.

pauldude000@hotmail.com

If anyone else wishes to converse with me through this e-mail, that would be great. I cannot guarantee that I will be able to respond instantaneously though. (Though I probably WILL respond.) :D

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 06, 2008, 09:44:39 PM
@all

The promised PDF (Adobe Acrobat) and PPT (Microsoft Power Point OR Open Office Impress) cocerning the TPU hookup pics with brief explanations have been uploaded.

I have also connected all pages through the main Index.html, so that you can find the tpupics page, and the new tpu stuff download page, as well as the program download page in one place.

http://pauldude000.fr33webhost.com/index.html (http://pauldude000.fr33webhost.com/index.html)

I am working on a masterlist of hookup connections, for both three and four CC TPU's, single double, triple, and quad signal applications. I will make another pdf for these when finished.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 06, 2008, 09:45:46 PM
@all

The promised PDF (Adobe Acrobat) and PPT (Microsoft Power Point OR Open Office Impress) cocerning the TPU hookup pics with brief explanations have been uploaded.

I have also connected all pages through the main Index.html, so that you can find the tpupics page, and the new tpu stuff download page, as well as the program download page in one place.

http://pauldude000.fr33webhost.com/index.html (http://pauldude000.fr33webhost.com/index.html)

I am working on a masterlist of hookup connections, for both three and four CC TPU's, single double, triple, and quad signal applications. I will make another pdf for these when finished.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Feynman on May 06, 2008, 10:02:41 PM
Awesome
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 08, 2008, 02:46:44 AM
@all

I have three files available.

1. pdf format presentation
2. ppt format (powerpoint) presentation
3. A separate .zip file of the images

All are too large to attach here (pdf and ppt >500k..... zip ~300k)

If you think they are worthwhile, spread the word.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Jon on May 08, 2008, 05:33:08 AM
@buzz-ard

Can I ask how you are driving your control coils? I have a similar setup and am collecting output to use as feedback but the mosfets I am using to drive the control coils causes a severe voltage drop. I have 5v from my oscillators but the mosfet drops it to 1v. My mosfets are bs170.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

http://freeenergygroup.com/

Thank you.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Jon on May 08, 2008, 07:09:49 AM
Correction.

The mosfets are actually passing 3 volts but are only dropping about one volt on the low end of the step. I can add a resistor from the gate to ground and drop the wave lower to 0v but I am still stuck with a 1 volt square wave. I suspect that I don't have enough voltage on the gate or there is too much capacitance and I need to use a mosfet driver.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 08, 2008, 10:05:55 AM
@all

Here is a tpu experiment, using 1 ONE O-N-E control coil that I imagined, then had to build. Novel as all heck.

Here is a pic:

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/tpuwheel/ww9.jpg)

I call this my "Wagon Wheel" TPU. It has a bifiliar wound 30ga collector of four turns, inside a small solid aluminum ring. Both ring and collector are taped together.

The control coil, also 30ga is spiral wound clockwise around the entire circumference of the TPU collectors. (Plural as the ring itself is a passive amperage amplifier for the bifiliar in theory)

For size comparison of this tiny beauty, the TPU is setting in the pic upon an ordinary roll of black tape.

The beauty of this design is that the field has no choice but to rotate, irregardless of the input signal, so long as it is DC in nature. :D

I have had some very interesting results which I documented for you all, 8 scope shots in all:

First scope settings and pulsing system:

All but the closeup -> 2microseconds time/div at .2v/div
Closeup -> 1microsecond time/div at .1v/div

Osscilator circuits used: :) The real beauty of a tiny tpu is that I can drive it diectly from my two function generators.

B&K on one isolated wind from the bifiliar collector. Piece of junk on the control coil. (Sorry, did I say that? :D )

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/tpuwheel/ww1.jpg)

The pic above is of one wind of the bifiliar collector coil only pulsed with square waves at 2400 Khz (2.4 Mhz).

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/tpuwheel/ww2.jpg)

The pic above is with the outside control coil only pulsed at 2110Khz (2.1 Mhz).

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/tpuwheel/ww3.jpg)

BOTH the collector, and the control pulsed together at approx 9.8v(control) and 12v (collector)
This one demonstrates full harmonics. I do not know how it comes through in the pic, but there are sines superimposed upon the square wave, with the strongest signal being PURE SINE AC. This has me stumped!

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/tpuwheel/ww8.jpg)

Here is a closeup of the wave from the last shot showing full harmonics.

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/tpuwheel/ww4.jpg)

Why different voltages between signals?
I learned something......
This pic above is the output at the SAME voltage. ~9.5v

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/tpuwheel/ww5.jpg)

I learned something else.
The duty cycle, or DC offset, Makes a HUGE difference in output characteristics.
The pic above is taken with the DC offset of the control at min (minimum duty cycle, or short pulse.)

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/tpuwheel/ww6.jpg)

However, without the second signal into the collector bifiliar, with the control dc offset the same in the control, this is the result! This is interesting as it appears a 50% duty cycle approx, yet is SHORT DUTY CYCLE square wave input!??

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/tpuwheel/ww7.jpg)

This pic shows what happens at 9.8v and 12v but at one frequency -> 2110Khz. Notice some resonance reaction, but nothing like the resonance of the coil to slightly differing frequencies.

What have I learned from this, and another tiny four coil unit made with an identical ring and single collector coil, and the other coils I have made tested and ditched?

1. Resonance is not enough by itself.
2. Rotation is not enough by itself.
3. The output characteristics from every coil tried so far increase dramatically with higher voltage. 9v by itself is not enough. It must be raised to a higher potential.
4. >>>>>>Rotation is an absolute necessity<<<<<<, not merely a possible.
5. Pulsing of the collector in an isolated leg of a bifilar should be tried by all!
6. Using a Steel core is worthless. If anyone has had luck with steel or ferrite cores, give me the info. They detract from performance as far as I can see.
7. Frequency of operation for any given coil is IMPERATIVE. All of the coils tested have "sweet spot" frequencies. They may not even produce much of any output too far from a "sweet spot" (natural resonant frequency of the unit).
8. Pulse length is important.

9. This small coil scares the poop out of me, and the tiny four coil is worse.

If they were full sized, pulsed with say 50v..... OUCH! (Who am I kidding, if I were to pulse them with 50v NOW I have no clue what the field would do, or how strong it might get. It tries to explode at 12v, and feedback kicks in my B&K's safety circuitry if I turn to 15v for more than a second or two.)

I hope this gives some here some interesting insights.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 08, 2008, 10:15:34 AM
@all

One thing I forgot to post:

The scope was connected the entire time to the second non-pulsed section of Bifiliar winding of the collector coil.

Also, using the second channel, and setting the scope on XY, I saw the pattern of a small figure 8 at full resonance. I know what the XY lines mean, and the circle indicates rotation, but what the heck is a figure 8?

By the way, the concept for pulsing the collector segment was actually derived from Steves words. He stated something to the effect of a "magnetic wave rotating in two dimensions at once", which gave me the idea to pulse physically 90degrees or horizontally to a vertical coil. The bifiliar coil collector design is going to be incorporated into all of my new designs for just this purpose. Possibly multiple bifiliar, as I saw Art (Loner) doing in his thread.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: otto on May 08, 2008, 10:21:00 AM
Hello all,

@Paul

can you get somehow a deflection coil from a TV?

If yes, then use the coils with a core from this system. There are 2 of them. This are the outer coils. Connect them to your TPU and see the signals.

Otto
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 08, 2008, 10:58:43 AM
@otto

I know which ones you are talking about. I do not have one right now, but I should be able to lay hands on one. How do you suggest I hook them up?

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: otto on May 08, 2008, 11:19:46 AM
Hello all,

@Paul

I use this 2 coils in a series connection as an input. This means, to be clearer, I hope:

MOSFET - 1 coil - output from this coil to the control coil of the TPU. The same with the other MOSFET and 2. coil.

Have you tried to pulse only the collectors?? The controls NOT connected.

I see biiiiig nice signals.

Do we need tubes?? Hmmmm.....our teacher told us to use them.

But why?? Yes, yes, I know. Im building tube oscillators!! One day they will and must be finished.

THE ONLY REASON IM BUILDING TUBE OSCILLATORS IS THAT THEN I WILL BE ABLE TO PULSE MY COILS WITH FREQUENCIES OF 2 OR EVEN 3MHZ.

With an additional coil as we see them in the videos, the little one in the middle, we have nice, clear signals of a lot of volts.
May I say like with tubes??? Yes.

Otto
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Feynman on May 08, 2008, 06:28:00 PM
I am also using tubes

But for amplification, not for oscillation.  ;)

Are you making variable oscillators Otto, or do you already know the frequency you want?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 08, 2008, 07:14:54 PM
Site temporarily unavailable. Data transfer limit exceeded. What's this?
Times site unavailable: 4 today | 7 this month
Page views refused: 124 today | 271 this month
Data Transfer Usage

0%   100%
Hourly limit: 4.2MB
Used: 100%
Times exceeded today: 4
Times exceeded this month: 7

This is from my geocities site......

I am so sick of it I could spit. It means that this month, 271 pictures failed to load for people trying to view pics I posted.....

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on May 08, 2008, 07:28:59 PM
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: turbo on May 08, 2008, 07:53:42 PM

With an additional coil as we see them in the videos, the little one in the middle, we have nice, clear signals of a lot of volts.
May I say like with tubes??? Yes.

Otto

The tubes are more easy because of two things:

1. You have a high voltage signal.
2. They are fast.

When you do use Mosfets use them in combination with capacitors charged to high voltage and the saturable inductor switches this sharpens the pulse and the caps deliver the needed high voltage so you will end up with something that looks like the tube setup.

M.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 08, 2008, 08:31:43 PM
@buzz

I did just a little while ago, and replied. :D

@marco

@all

I need to clear one thing up concerning tubes.... Bluntly stated, they are not as fast as SS.... No joke, they are not. They have their uses, and some aspects which are usefull which are not necessarily shared with SS, but if you are considering using their speed/VS/Solid-State, you are barking up the wrong tree. Show me any tube capable of working in the low Ghz range.... I CAN SHOW YOU TRANSISTORS....

Mosfets are just more finicky, and a little harder to select and use, but the rise/fall time of your average good mosfet blows away the rise/fall time of a comparable tube.

Otto, if I were you I would follow marcos advice, and use mosfets for the oscillation circuit, and your tubes for the amplification. VERY good advice, which saves on mosfets.

I am going to do some research later, and give you all some ideas for using mosfets to make an oscillator.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on May 08, 2008, 09:08:56 PM
Quote
1. Resonance is not enough by itself.
2. Rotation is not enough by itself.
3. The output characteristics from every coil tried so far increase dramatically with higher voltage. 9v by itself is not enough. It must be raised to a higher potential.
4. >>>>>>Rotation is an absolute necessity<<<<<<, not merely a possible.
5. Pulsing of the collector in an isolated leg of a bifilar should be tried by all!
6. Using a Steel core is worthless. If anyone has had luck with steel or ferrite cores, give me the info. They detract from performance as far as I can see.
7. Frequency of operation for any given coil is IMPERATIVE. All of the coils tested have "sweet spot" frequencies. They may not even produce much of any output too far from a "sweet spot" (natural resonant frequency of the unit).
8. Pulse length is important.

If they were full sized, pulsed with say 50v..... OUCH! (Who am I kidding, if I were to pulse them with 50v NOW I have no clue what the field would do, or how strong it might get. It tries to explode at 12v, and feedback kicks in my B&K's safety circuitry if I turn to 15v for more than a second or two.)

Great post, Paul! You and I are parallel in many of our observations. I'll throw in my two cents here, at least until I get my page built:

1. Resonance is indeed not enough. All of the results I've had so far have been strictly through resonance, but quite interesting nonetheless.
2. Rotation is, I believe, part and parcel of the effect. By itself alone it's not enough, I agree.
3. I'm not certain that initial high voltage is required. In nearly all the good results I've gotten, 3 Vpp from the function generators has been my reference level. When I increase voltage I get the same effects, just with higher peaks. I've gotten 200 volts clean AC sine from 20 V DC square offset negative out of my B&Ks, but after thinking it through it's meaningless because I'm relying only on resonance - I've really only been playing with basic transformer effects, I think. Seems voltage and current build in SM's units, so a minimal input should suffice to get it going (9V battery, two AA batteries, etc.).
4. YES!
5. I've had much fun with the bi-filar approach. This is definitely part of the working design. Use the spare leads for feedback into the control coils - it may also drain off some of the feedback getting to your B&K. I've had surprising results using feedback.
6. Iron/steel in the core does not seem to help, I agree. It makes a huge difference in the Tesla replica, though. I have a build planned using a steel core, where intend to saw it multiple times and leave a 1/4 inch gap or so, making it segmented so as to create separate poles within each control coil region. I will wind this build in both Tesla/AC and TPU/DC fashion to see the effects of the split core, but I expect it to benefit the Tesla configuration the most.
7. The sweet spot has been easy to find and easy to tune in my builds. I do believe there's a cascade/avalanche effect that will occur when it's all lined up. But I've found that there's usually a really narrow range where things happen, so precise control of the frequencies is imperative.
8. Pulse length is important. I've had the best results at 50% duty so far, but again I've been tuning for resonance. I've also seen square waves superimposed on the sine traces (really strange-looking indeed), but these are just noisy artifacts that disappear with more tuning.

A thought for all: Turn your function generator way up high then scope the output - there will be what we used to call "switch-bounce" as the output drain stabilizes, showing squiggly traces that settle down after 6-8 oscillations. You can also see switch bounce in stereo gear, like when you turn on the power (the "kick" and thump from the inrush of current, which stabilizes after a few cycles). This squiggly bounce is supposedly not a desirable thing in the TPU, as the squigglies would cause ripple in the resulting mag field and distort the effect. Squigglies are more pronounced at higher frequencies, illustrating one of the trade-offs of using SS devices. Tubes generally don't do this as badly, nor do continuous power sources like batteries. Spark gaps do something similar as I recall, but it's much wilder and even more destructive - this is why I had so little confidence in the reed-switch-as-commutator idea that was floating around in another thread.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on May 08, 2008, 09:18:26 PM
@Jon - How coincidental. I just found your page yesterday and looked over it briefly. Looks good - I intend to go back when I have a few more minutes.

I haven't graduated to the MOSFET world yet - I'm still gnawing away with my 3 function generators. But I think that's about exhausted and it will soon be time to move on up. I can tell you that adding feedback from the collector changes the dynamics of the coil, and I can also say that my setup is working best with a multi-turn collector, Mobius-looped at the ends (as opposed to making a twist mid-coil).

About all I can offer until my new page is built is my last reply to Paul. I'll post a link to my site soon as I can get the HTML built to show it all and share all I've got.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 08, 2008, 11:32:22 PM
@buzz

Check your junkbox again! :D (at least yours are entering in through the hotmail inbox now!)

@all

I am going to try to link the logical thoughts here, for both you AND my own mind.

The first input signal creates a field. The second harmonic resonant signal attracts the lines of force before collapse from the first, drawing it toward the second in train, giving apparent motion, IE rotation. Thinking about this, all frequencies should be a narrow but powerful pulse to spin the field up.

A third stabilizing frequency would be good at this point, to maintain and speed up rotation. The rotation then is resonant with the applied signals, but probably at a much lower frequency (a sub harmonic). Our coils are wound wrong on the collectors.......

They should probably be laid literally one on top of the other, each wound fully around the circumference of the TPU and pulsed sequentially. (inner coil -> 0 degrees, second coil -> 90degrees, outer coil -> 180 degrees phasing). This will give a massively rotating field.

With my "wagon wheel" TPU, I learned some VERY valuable insights on this, and it matches precisely with SM's own description of the build of his coil.  (I am glad I tried the "wild hare" approach on this what I thought of as non-sensical wind.)

I think sharp spike cap discharge through mosfets is the way to go frequency regulated by square wave oscillators.

Find three "sweet spots", for your coils. Write down the center frequencies. Build one oscillator for each coil at the specific frequency, lowest to highest. Have all three switchable. Fire the first low frequency, then fire the second, (if I am right, you should notice a small output here) then fire the third..... Manually firing the frequencies should do the trick, as it is almost guaranteed to be out of phase this way. (Being IN phase would be sheer accident.)

If my thoughts are right.... MAN OH MAN I THUNK I HAVE HAD ANOTHER MENTAL BREAKTHROUGH!

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: FatBird on May 09, 2008, 01:34:36 AM
Paul,

Nice photos.  Please post a schematic.

Thank you.
.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 09, 2008, 02:26:22 AM
REPOSTED HERE WITH PERMISSION OF FATBIRD

I thought this important enough to aquire permission to cross post this here. Originally posted by Fatbird in "Steven Mark's patent something-or-other" thread.

Summary of Important Points From SM's Videos & Letters To Mannix:

1.   Compass will spin up when turned on.
2.   Never tune too closely to the exact frequencies
3.   Make a Kill Switch with Over Voltage & Heat Sensors.
4.   The control units are so very important to control the frequencies.
5.   The frequencies are directly related to the circumference of the collector coil.
6.   First frequency, then second harmonic component into the second, then the third.
7.   You could describe the useable current output of my coil as DC but with some hash in it.
8.   There are 3 Control Coils (all the way around) each of the 3 Collector.  Start them 1 at a time.
9.   The ?TPU? units heat up to a potentially dangerous temperature after a considerable period of time
10. The Collector is three separate coils of multi strand copper wire laid one on top of the other.  Other
control wires are wound around all of the horizontal collector coils together.

===================================================================

There is a wealth of knowledge in almost everyone of my letters.  You seem to be the only one who has the ability to absorb and digest the information the way it is intended.  After rereading my letters to you I became aware that in fact I have already sent you enough information to duplicate my power units.  I have certainly given you more to go on then I had when developing it.

Listen, you need to make three coils or so one on top of the other. But the important thing is to wrap the control coils perpendicularly around the collector coils. There need to be three of them all the way around. Start them up one at a time each. First frequency then second harmonic component into the second, then the third. When you eventually strike the cord look out. you will know what has happened at that point. In the mean time you can measure a slight output even if you do not strike the exact cord.

In the case of my power unit, you create several frequencies within a space of the collector coil's circumference.  The frequencies are directly related to the circumference of the Collector Coil.

On to another point. There is an inertia. With the right combination of frequencies, you can actually create a revolving field with inertial! That is what I have referred to as , The inertia effect.

There is a genuine gyroscopic effect when the units are on. Everybody has noticed that when held and in operation, the units have a definite vibration and have a gyroscopic effect..  They seam to resist being moved through the air. When placed on a smooth surface it is very pronounced. Some of you should think about that.

Electron tube circuits work much more precisely then solid state units. Especially when first experimenting. You will be able to get some excitation with solid state units but we had to design with tubes first and then try to duplicate the functioning system with solid state circuits later. It was difficult. Solid state circuits are very dirty and imprecise.

Solid state devices are too slow to find the three major intersecting you know whats...

About the collector:   It is three separate coils of multi strand copper wire laid one on top of the other, not interleaved. Three is important. You can do many things with three coils. You can run them in parallel, you can run two in series and one in parallel, or etc. You can run a separate frequency into each coil for better control on large power units if need be.

The control wiring is vertically wound in several segments around each of the horizontal collector coils. Other control wires are wound around all of the horizontal collector coils together. Through the different control wire and coil wire arrangements you can keep complete control of the unit most of the time.

However, you must have an emergency KILL switch. A way of cutting off all the control frequencies simultaneity. This kill switch must be, manual and also connected through a heat sensor buried within the collector coil. it should automatically stop the function of the unit before it self destructs on it's own.

This is important for obvious reasons. Also the kill switch should also be connected to cut off whenever it measures over voltage. If that should ever happen, you would never have enough time to hit the kill switch before the inevitable explosion occurred. You know, it is very similar to the idea of a long garden hose. Picture a hose with water in it. If you pick up one end and move along the length of the hose you will move the water constantly along in the direction you are moving. You could also squeeze the hose in the direction to move the water along as well. And you could do both to control the movement of the water more precisely. You can think of the movement of water as the movement of electrons through the collector coils.

I hope the things I share with you give you ideas about how my unit works. As you know, I am a great believer in understanding, not copying.
Sincerely,
SM.

As you know, Large amounts of FEEDBACK is essential to frequency and control when using SS devices for everything in the electronics world, HOWEVER, it is the enemy of generators!  If anyone ever gets one of these things operating, have them measure the electro magnetic and hash radio around the unit....it will blow your mind. so, what does that do to control devices in close proximity?

Most of the most successful units we made had control wiring run or wrapped vertically over the horizontal collector wires. You can see them in the units in some of the videos under black plastic covering. They were run perpendicular to the travel of the collector wires. They were run in multiple segments. each segment could be fed a different frequency individually and or from a collector section to help perpetuate the oscillation and control. The control frequencies are important in order to make power from the collector.

By starting the oscillation you cause the current to flow in the collector which causes the magnification of the process within the collector which will ultimately produce the greater voltage and power in usable amounts during operation. It is electron flow of a high order creating a large magnetic field. Or vice versa.

My point to this story is.... WE spent months and months trying in every conceivable way to duplicate a unit. The only thing that kept us going night and day was the fact that we already had one. We knew it was possible to have a working device.. It was the only thing that kept us going on the project. And even then we said I GIVE UP so many times I cant count.

REMEMBER, all of that noise and hash in your solid state amplifier is in the output signal ! Now tell me? What do you think is happening inside the extremely sensitive torrid generator when you use solid state devices to attempt to create the required precise control frequencies to make catalyst and produce power???

BUT, i guarantee you that their SS control devices are all sitting right beside the collector... aren't they? They will probably never start the coil and get to catalyst. I am not saying it is impossible, but it will Damn difficult for these guys to get more then a big bang once in a while. And just like me, that big bang will excite them enough to continue for a while longer. Maybe one of them will read back and see where I said the SS control device must be placed inside the collector coil. then they will explode with, MY GOD, maybe that is the reason why...... and off they will go. in the right direction at least.

I hope things are calmed in your life when you receive this.  I fully understand your feelings of frustration. To work hard to see nothing of a positive is sometimes shattering to one's self.  I know very well... I had a great deal of help and it took us years just to develop a SS control system that would work! And this is after we knew how to make generators!!!

Some of the units in the demo videos did in fact have one or two 9V batteries to provide a separate controllable DC source for the solid state control circuit.

We eventually learned how to make the power converters start with only the flick of a permanent magnet across the coils.  You may find it humorous that we had to find a way to make the things work without any batteries purely because UEC needed us to honestly answer the question:  Does it have any batteries inside of it?  They wanted us to be able to truthfully answer NO, to anyone who asked that question.  You would be surprised how difficult it can be to explained to a lay person how impossible it is to convert a 9V battery into the juice needed to light a single 100 watt 120 volt light bulb, let alone make toast with an electric toaster!!!

The output of the unit is high voltage DC with a frequency component of around 5k Hz.  Think of the output as dc (pulsed) 5 KHz with lots of Hash in it.

The unit had been in steady operation for exactly two hours and fourteen minutes (2hours and 14 min).  The load of 2 amperes amperes at 137-volts did not change through the test period. I can personally state that I do not know of any battery or storage device of this size or weight with this capability.

The time was 12:47 when the inventor removed the large toroid device from operation. It had been in constant operation for three hours and eight minutes (3-hours and 8 minutes).

The ?TPU? units apparently heat up to a potentially dangerous level after a considerable period of time, and must be shut off at that point. This makes some people suspicious of a battery that is being depleted and which must be recharged after a few minutes. However, after having cooled down, the inventor has always managed to start the unit up again and light the lamps again for the same amount of time as before, until the unit heats up again, without removing the device from the observers sight to be ?recharged?.

This can apparently be done any number of times, such as the cumulative ?ON? time can be extended to at least 30 or 40 minutes. This is several times longer then the theoretical limit of any kind of concealed battery pack that I, the battery experts or electrical engineers have yet been able to discover. I have personally seen this demonstration at least fifty times.

By the way, we found that ordinary multi strand lamp cable worked very well for use as a collector.  Thick gage wire can dissipate the heat very well but there are two problems.  First the heavy gage wire isn't as efficient as the multi strand copper and also there is a safety advantage in using the multi strand lamp cable.

If the unit goes too far on frequency it may begin to convert too much current and try to dissipate way too much voltage.  The multi strand wire will just burn up and open the circuit whereas the heavy gage wire will continue to conduct until there will be the equivalent of a lightning strike of the unit.  That of course ends the operation of the unit but can also prove to be rather dramatic and also somewhat dangerous if you are in close proximity to the power unit.

The coils get hot. THis problem has not been resolved. It apparently due to the windings moving.  The destructive heating caused by the eddy currents become the problem we face when we make a really large powerful coil. Now you understand more about the heating problem and why using a fan does not work.  The time was 11:20 AM when the inventor removed the small toroid unit from operation because of heat build up. I examined the small toroid unit and it was indeed quite hot to the touch.

Strangely, using the left hand rule for magnetism, this toroid is an aberration.  Because when one thinks of the current beginning the flow through a load, the magnetic flux this winding creates is ADDITIVE to the pulsing magnetic flux created by the coils.

When it is unloaded the voltage climbs substantially and I do not mean a spike. it lasts for several seconds and is a good third higher. Steven calls it the turbine effect..

YES NORBERT, WE DID TRY THEM SOUTH OF THE EQUATER,   THEY WORK IN REVERSE. CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHY?

Outside Diameter:   6"
Inside Diameter:   5"
Height:   1 - 3/4"
Weight:   12 ounces
Output Power:   250 Watts
Output Voltage:   160 Volts
Voltage Frequency:   5000 Hz.
Duration of Performance: 30 Minutes

Univ Prof = The first unit was roughly shaped like a large donut. It measured approximately 4.72? across with an inside diameter hole of 3? making a core width approximately 1? thick.  The unit was exactly 2? tall, resembling a toroid. I did not measure the weight however the unit was extremely light when held in the hand.

Univ Prof = Mr. Mark connected the unit directly to a 100 watt 120 volt incandescent light bulb and caused the unit to operate. It did in fact illuminate the incandescent bulb quite brightly. I measured the
voltage at 137 volts D.C. exactly, (ObS). See note*

================================================

Univ Prof = The second unit was again toroid shaped with a large hole in the center. It was approximately 15? at the outside and 13? inside with a core thickness of approximately 1?.  The unit was 4? tall. The unit was not measured in weight but could be easily lifted with one hand, (ObS).

================================================

Univ Prof = I asked the inventor if this was the limit of the unit and he replied, ?no way.? He provided a quick blow fuse rated at 50 amperes.

Univ Prof = With two large electrical clamps and wiring, he shorted the fuse across the output terminals of the toroid and destroyed the fuse, (ObS). There was only a slight flickering of the ten incandescent bulbs as observed although there was a tremendous discharge of sparks from the output terminals of the toroid unit.

Univ Prof = The inventor then gave me the fuse for examination. It was warm to the touch and smelled acrid, (ObS). It was a large 240 volt AC air conditioner disconnect fuse and designed for severe service duty, (OsS).

Univ Prof = The inventor?s claim that the large toroid output terminals were at lethal potential was no longer in question. The time was 11:20 AM when the inventor removed the small toroid unit from operation because of heat build up. I examined the small toroid unit and it was indeed quite hot to the touch.

I had only this to go on when I started and little by little I figured out how to make many several thousands of kicks per second. . .  AND YOU KNOW WHAT, IT ISN"T DIFICULT AT ALL.  No, I take that statement back.  Actually it is difficult if you refuse to start thinking.  Some of the information I have given to you is golden.  I have certainly given you enough information to move in the right direction.  I will continue to give you more information but I am so disappointed with the complete lack of ability I see in most everyone so far.

============================================

12 Ounce Open Unit in the 38 Min Film.

OD = 6 inches.
Height = 2 inches.
Thickness = 1 inch.
Output = 186V @ 5 Amps.  7 Amps with a Heat Sink.

============================================
Small 1 Pounder, Open Coil.  Took Magnet from his pocket.

OD = 4 inches.
Height = 1 3/4 inches.
Output = 100V @ 1 Amp.  7.3 Hz & 5 KHz.
=================================
Small Open Coil, 1 1/2  Pounder:

OD = 6 inches.
Height = 2 inches.
Thickness = 3/4 inches.
Output = 120V @ 5 Amps.  7.3 Hz & 5 KHz.
=================================
Large 17" Open Coil.

OD = 17 inches.
Height = 4 inches.
Thickness =
Output = 830V @ 10 Amps.

=================================================

I intend to make this info available in pdf format for download on my website! (valuable stuff here, Good Job Fatbird!)

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: turbo on May 09, 2008, 06:18:35 AM
Why don't you use the origional document i have made?

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2383.0;attach=9211 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2383.0;attach=9211)

M.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: otto on May 09, 2008, 06:42:10 AM
Hello all,

@Feynman

Im building variable oscillators because every TPU has his specifical frequency. The difference is maybe a few Hertz but its a difference.

Im totally confused. The reason is that I have soooo much questions for myself. Just a few here, if allowed:

1. The height of a 6" TPU is 1 3/4" = 44mm. Why has a deflection coil the same height?? I mean the core with the windings.
2. Why is a primary coil of a TPU wound in layers???? like a deflection coil??? Oooooo......you didnt know it??? But you all had a discussion about various Tesla patents!! Didnt you see it??

The stuff about the layers is NOT from me. I will mention the man who told me this later, if he agrees. I dont want the people would think that Im soooo bright. Im NOT!!

You all remember the story about the TV!!

With my yesterdays post I didnt want to say not to use tubes!! I wanted to say that with  additional coils like in the video, or like with the outer deflection coils I got really big signals. This signals nice and clear, with almost no hash. And the kicks - perfect!! Very fast on and off signals.

In one way connected I have sine waves and in another way connected I have kicks. It seems that I have to wright everything down because I forgot how to connect the coils. Im a little bit fast because its soooo interesting to play with coils.

The big problem is that we dont know what kind of metal as the core SM used. Im talking about the 2 additional coils in the big TPU or the coil sitting on top of the 6" TPU. Its NOT Aluminium, thats for sure.

Otto

PS: maybe somebody knows something about the Aluminium - Manganese alloy???

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: AhuraMazda on May 09, 2008, 09:22:01 AM
@otto,
Hello. Why do you think your oscillator must be made with tubes?
It is possible to design a Variable frequency oscillator with Sine output and high voltage using transistors.
The reason I am asking is that I can understand FETS and transistors but not valves.

@All,
What do you understand by Magnetic shadow? I have searched everywhere and can not find anything.

Regards

AM
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: otto on May 09, 2008, 10:07:19 AM
Hello all,

@AM

I have to be honest: I promised a nice man here in the forum to build my tube oscillators.....

35 years ago I learned everything about tubes. I was really good. Tube radios, tube TVs. In the times of tubes I learned in school how to repair tube TVs and in the same time had a lot of TVs to repair!! And I earned a good money as a very joung guy.Then came the time with transistors, ICs.......and as it happens, I forgot everything about tubes....

How I see the development of a TPU:

- SM was a TV repair man, he knew about the TV story and wanted to know what happened when the TV got out of frequencies.
- I think he was playing around with a deflection coil
- as a TV had tubes, SM used them also in his work
- the voltage on tubes plates is say 300V more or less
- with such signals he was pulsing his TPU and got it work
- later he had to use SS because tubes are a little big, ha,ha.
- with SS devices, to say MOSFETs, he had nice signals but at a low voltage level and so he had to think about how to rise the voltage of the signals - to get biiiig signals, like with tubes
- the solution is well seen: additional coil(s) sitting in the center of the TPU

In this way he got an easier acceleration of the particles, he didnt had to use a soooo high frequency to accelerate the tornado and at an unknown (?) frequency mix the tornado accelerates for itself so....
He got nice clean signals
and he got biiiig signals

This all I see with my setup.
I only need to rise a little the voltage from my power supply and then......I can again repair my equipment.

I think its enough crap from me this week.

Otto

PS: AM, maybe you know something about the AlMn alloy???

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 09, 2008, 10:51:51 AM
I have had another "Thunk" situation, and people REALLY ought to read Steve's words in the pdf CAREFULLY, but especially with an OPEN MIND, not cluttered with presuppositions. (Like I originally did.)

I was ALMOST correct before. Now I am cautious. :o

The device is ALMOST solely Tesla type tech. I think Tesla himself would have achieved this if he would have retained his lab and funding. It is based quite heavily upon what he proposed.

Steve himself stated EXACTLY how to wind the setup...... This ought to sound familiar.

"Listen, you need to make three coils or so one on top of the other. But the important thing is to wrap the control coils perpendicularly around the collector coils. There need to be three of them all the way around." <-SM

"About the collector:   It is three separate coils of multi strand copper wire laid one on top of the other, not interleaved. Three is important. You can do many things with three coils. You can run them in parallel, you can run two in series and one in parallel, or etc" <-SM

"The control wiring is vertically wound in several segments around each of the horizontal collector coils. Other control wires are wound around all of the horizontal collector coils together. Through the different control wire and coil wire arrangements you can keep complete control of the unit most of the time." <-SM (otto AND tao were each half right. I was quarter right.)

"About the collector: .....................You can run a separate frequency into each coil for better control on large power units if need be."

BOTH the controls and the collectors are pulsed. You will remember that SM stated that we should imagine a field rotating in TWO directions at once. (Rotating around the coil, with spin. IE rotation on two axis. This is what happens with field collapse in the coils, the second rotation,  or spin, starts and is accentuated with the pulsed collectors.) Now consider a basketball. If you shoot the ball with your hand placed improperly to the side and back, it imparts a two axis spin, rotating backwards and to the side at the same time. Magnetic fields out of alignment try to align with each other. That is why a compass works.

The pulsed controls set up the initial field and start rotation. The pulsed collectors induce secondary spin and help control the effect. Rotation lifts the hose, spin squeezes it.

High voltage short duration pulses in the collector provide for alot of "squeeze"..... (Center toroid is a pulsed step up resonance transformer) Cap discharge through High voltage mosfets into both collectors and at least one, preferably two or more collectors.

Man, my brain is on fire, and it is LATE here, I hope I can get some sleep. I mentally feel like a rabbit being chased by a bobcat!

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: AhuraMazda on May 09, 2008, 04:04:15 PM
AM, maybe you know something about the AlMn alloy???

@otto

I have no direct experience with AL-Mn alloy but you may find these links interesting:

Grus
AM
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: otto on May 09, 2008, 04:37:48 PM
Hello all,

@AM

AlMn alloy has special magnetical properties, like the alloy in the patent. I found only 1 site with a short description.

Otto
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Feynman on May 09, 2008, 04:43:00 PM
ahura:

Triode Tubes are just like N-channel MOSFETs.   aka gate, source,drain.   They are voltage amplifiers.

http://mysite.du.edu/~etuttle/electron/elect27.htm#PowTri
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Basics_04_Triodes.html
http://www.aikenamps.com/Equations.htm

I have several PDF books from the 1950s which are excellent as well, I can post them if you decide to make somethign with tubes.  ;)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Feynman on May 09, 2008, 04:43:31 PM
<duplicate post deleted>
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on May 09, 2008, 04:50:59 PM
@Pauldude

I don't know if you pickedup on the information supplied by Spherics.  (I believe this was SM giving his disciples a little lecture ::)   What was most important in his postings were that if you pulse a piece of copper wire that is run in parallel (physically and electrically) with a piece of iron wire that there will be an acceleration of the magnetic field in the direction you want.  The kick pulse when applied to this parallel or bifilar arrangement causes the copper to create a magnetic field change first.  While this is happening the kick pulse is causing the iron wire to rearrange it's atomic lattice and then the resultant magnetic field response to the kick.  The reaction of the two different metals to the same spike (or spark) causes a magnetic field shift at great speed and in a predictable direction.  When this bifilar arrangement is wound into a solenoid coil and a collector piece of copper is placed within it's interior this collector winding experiences this magnetic field shift.
In later designs sm came to the realizaton that the iron wire could be replaced by a copper winding that is pulsed at a lagging frequency to get the same effect as the timed iron/copper response to a single pulse.  This makes the tpu a dragless dynamo.  The backemf of the copper collector winding not dragging down the prime mover because we moved the magnetic field across the copper electrically not physically.

@Mannix

This would be a good time to deny or support a speculation on the dynamics of the tpu and Stevens work.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 10, 2008, 02:49:52 AM
@Sparks

Ion wire has a differnt conductivy than copper. Different conductivity means different speed of propogation. DIfferent sped of propogation means lagging or leading pulse at same frequency. ANother form of phasing.

Man, I think I am running a fever. I feel like I am burning up.

Paul ANdrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on May 10, 2008, 04:25:26 AM
SM also used this timing effect by pulsing metal in the base of his premier design.  I'm not sure what to call it but it is the one that puts out 800watts.
In this unit he uses two frequencies as one can obviously deduce from the two identical oscillator setups he has in the middle.  The two white transformers are air core torroidal transformers that are used to charge the two identical caps.  When the caps get to a certain voltage they are discharged into the kick windings through a semiconductor avalanche circuit .  They are being fed by a feedback winding sensing the magnetic field shift induced by the respective kick windings.  One for the leading and one for the lagging kick.
Spherics comes on board in 2008 and tells us that the kick windings should be face postitoned and no iron, but this is not what we see in 98. We see steel in the base of the tpu's being pulsed to stretch out the solenoidal magnetic shift towards some 1/2 ass secondary coil.  Master of Magnetics LOL.  He didn't have the first clue as to how a dragless dynamo should be built and if he was spherics posting still doesnt.  What he did know is that the way to get free energy is to use a kick to act as a catalyst in producing a magnetic field disruption that will yield thousands of times more translatory energy than what is needed to produce the kick.  This guy tried to package one of Tesla's designs that GK is working on right now and pawn it off to some chumps.  Total asshole then and total asshole now.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on May 10, 2008, 03:10:58 PM
@Chef

I see energy as change and antienergy as inertia.  And matter as the combination of both.  So when we change the inertial field around a form of matter potential energy or the potential for change stored in the matter is released.  Pure energy displaces the aetheric inertia and is able to manifest through spacetime and excite the release of potential energy from matter that it encounters.

If you believe that spinning the aether is the only way to release, use, and store potential energy from matter I guess it's your right.

@all

I believe anybody with experience with transformers, alternators, dc generators,  or electric motors will see the benefit of effecting a magnetic field change by use of an energy pulse.  The antiquated way of changing the magnetic field around a conductor by physical movement of the conductor through a compressed magnetic field or the use of an iron laminated core to direct a magnetic field compression by resetting magnetic domains of the metal should be a museum piece soon.  The sooner the better.
In your experiments and designs please remember that the kick that SM credited energy conversion to is the scource of free energy.  The kick can elicit mass conversion to energy without loosing any of it's ability to do it over and over and over.  The spin energy of the Earth itself is the capacitor in this energy circuit.  It is the scource of back emf.  Back electromotive force.  It restores the electrical magnetic resonance of the mass disrupted by the kick.  So simple even and idiot like me can understand it. ;D
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on May 10, 2008, 07:52:29 PM
@Marco - thanks for linking your PDF again. I re-read it and absorbed many things I missed the first time around.

@Sparks - Something you said to Paul in this thread a couple of days ago made a real impression on me, regarding the info Spherics provided. It helped me expand my thinking and plan a few more tests for my current build, and it seems to have "sparked" Paul as well.

@Jon, Paul, Ringo, & All - I finally completed my little Web pages with photos of my builds and information about them. This link http://www.randallsteward.com/TPU (http://www.randallsteward.com/TPU) has all of my stuff. I will be adding to it as things develop, and will post in the forum when something new is added. (Sorry about the @Ringo thing - I couldn't help myself.)

Anyone who needs a place to upload extra photos or other material (not videos) can write me directly for access @ RSteward *at* texxa.net. You can link to files directly, or put HTML there like I did. I'm offering this free of charge to any OverUnity.com member who is actively building or doing other related research and is actively posting in the forum.

Have a great weekend, everyone. I'm off to visit Mom.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on May 11, 2008, 12:19:04 AM
They are voltage amplifiers.
Tubes are voltage modulators, they can't work without external pre-amplified (300-400V) voltage source, DC or biased AC. If you supply biased AC as power you may create a signal multiplier (a * b). Sorry, could not resist ;)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Jon on May 11, 2008, 06:03:25 AM
I have posted a quick report on a test to find the kick Steven Mark describes as a free energy source used in the TPU. Feedback is appreciated.

I have posted the report here: http://freeenergygroup.com/

@buzz-ard
Great work on your TPU progress.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: turbo on May 11, 2008, 09:16:36 AM

Feedback is appreciated.

:)
(http://www.rutubes.com/images/rare_tubes_new/6N13S.jpg)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Feynman on May 11, 2008, 09:21:39 AM
Haha , Marco

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on May 12, 2008, 12:54:14 AM
@ Jon - Thanks - validation is good.

Interesting, your PDF for testing for the presence of the kick. Otto (I think) posted a video on YouTube awhile back that showed some kicks on his scope before it got damaged, but I don't recall the specifics of how he produced them.

I'm really troubled by the difficulty I'm having measuring the output of my builds with any confidence. My analog meter has mucho trouble, and your digital meter seems to be playing with you also. I won't even try my digital meter, it's so flaky. I trust my scope, but I don't want to fry it. Recall that SM modified a Tripplite inverter to run the drill, TV, etc. I'm wondering if there's not a requirement to somehow bring the high frequencies down or otherwise capture them in order to be to be useful? Possibly the small toroids being discussed in the Jack Durban Video thread? Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 12, 2008, 01:08:43 AM
@all

Later on tonight, I will upload a new schematic. I have been working on oscillation driver circuits. I have found a unique way to slave 555's using ONE external frequency circuit to control multiple 555's at the same frequency. Scope shots show it is working as desired. Preliminary mosfet tests are positive as well. I intend to test this circuit to generate multiple frequencies at once as well. (whether switching the timing cap for each 555 will allow for frequency HARMONIC generation!) Stable into the MHZ range.

Everything looks good so far.

@Buzz

I tested the site as you asked, and security is efficient. Anyone trying to login to someone else's folder locks up their browser in an endless "identify yourself" loop. I will be uploading all pics here eventually, starting with the new pics for my newest TPU wind(newer than the wagon wheel), and for the 555 circuit and shots.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on May 12, 2008, 01:10:40 AM
@Buzzard

sm had a two layer build.  The lower layer with the kick windings around it  and the iron outside of that  gets a rotating mag field going that is stretched out in the space above the lower torroid.  I believe the copper the kick windings are wound around in the lower layer is fed a dc bias just to saturate the core of the kick windings.  This is not an output winding.
The upper layer has the collector winding or output winding.  This ring experiences the magfield rotation.  It stores it also like a turbine spinning it up.  Then you can put windings around the upper  ring winding that act as current transformers.
This is what I see when I look at the open tpu.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Jon on May 12, 2008, 05:34:47 AM
@buzz-ard

If you are concerned about damaging your oscilliscope you can use an attenuator. It should turn down the gain on the output. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attenuator_(electronics)

I know that Feynman is going to use one of these with his new KV equipment.

I am still testing for the kick. I don't know how to do it properly yet but at least I will learn about power dissipation through different wires and frequencies.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 12, 2008, 08:51:37 AM
@all

Well.... I have had to switch to the X10 setting on my probe for my collectors..... (5v/div X10 -> 150volts unloaded except for probe.)

Much better, and much closer. Amazingly enough, am able to do it with ONE signal generator. Am about to give dc bias so that the high frequency has a "latch" to amplify.

Sorry I haven't posted more, but between being sick, and spending most of my free time building and at the bench, it hasn't left much time to post.

P.S. I have the schematic almost ready to post.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 12, 2008, 10:03:48 AM
@all

Here is the 555 slaved circuit schematic:

(http://www.randallsteward.com/TPU/pauldude000/pictures/3555basic50contduty.jpg)

and a direct link: (so that you can view the WHOLE thing up close in explorer or firefox)

http://www.randallsteward.com/TPU/pauldude000/pictures/3555basic50contduty.jpg (http://www.randallsteward.com/TPU/pauldude000/pictures/3555basic50contduty.jpg)

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 13, 2008, 12:04:54 AM
@art

Just remember a few things.

1. Use TS555CN's (ST Micro) They are cmos and stable to 2.7 Mhz, and I have not tried with others yet.
2. When testing with dual channel on your scope, remember that one WILL appear to have jitter towards the other, due to the phasing. (You will see what I mean. Check both outputs, you see jitter, check one THEN check the other, and you find the output rock solid for both.)
3. Get a small handfull, as I have noticed one out of the three I tried is not very cooperative, but worked fine when changed out for a new one. (you may have to match three or four.)
4. Play around with it, and do not be afraid of experimenting with it! (555's are cheap, even if you burn one up its no prob.
5. On my scope, trace overlay was exact as to pattern match (frequencies precise).
6. Note that on the circuit I built, I left out the .01 caps. I also tried without the timing caps. (gives highest frequency range, but the out voltage and waveform suffered)

I think Jameco carries the TS555CN's. Do a search on Yahoo if necessary.

<500 khz should work with any 555.
>500khz only a handfull, and all cmos not bipolar.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on May 13, 2008, 12:31:02 AM
Just today I picked up a couple of 556CN, dual 555s on one chip, 100ns rise/fall. \$1.99 at Rackity Shack. Dunno if they're any good or not, but for the price you can't go wrong.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 13, 2008, 05:31:34 AM
@All

First, for the black hats... I have made this abundantly clear everywhere else, I will here as well in case you missed that memo. I am not going to build weapons for anyone, anywhere, anywhen, ever. period. Get over it. Don't bother with the reports, they have probably been filed A LONG time ago, from various places from back in my physics days.

Concerning one of the few scientists on this earth whom I have much respect for...... Nikola Tesla

Why respect him? He didn't buckle under opposition and criticism. He allowed people to think whatever they wanted concerning his ideas. Concerning harmonics and resonance. Notice I didn't specify electricity? He was about harmonics... in EVERY form. You might say the man loved harmony, and looked at the physical world as a symphony of harmonic interactions of all types.

I have heard much trash BOTH ways concerning this man, but most by those whom idolize him... Yes, Now, just as then, his FANS are his biggest detriment.

His fans have more to do with his popular labelization as a nut than his theories ever could. Take out the mysticism, the half-baked ideas, and  the sheer garbage touted about his "known" concepts, and you have but a handful of truth left over. To give understanding of the man, I am going to have to EXPLAIN resonance, since the sheer multitude do not seem to have a clue.

You have resonance, then you have TRUE resonance. Most of what is labeled as "being resonant", is at best in description harmonic. TRUE RESONANCE IS ALWAYS CUMULATIVE IN EFFECT. For instance, truly resonant frequencies don't necessarily superimpose, they tend to amplify. The same is true of mechanical resonance.

True resonance also tends to destroy. THAT IS WHY THE GOV CLAMPED DOWN ON THE TECH. True resonance will destroy a close but non-resonant receiver. That is why engines at certain RPM's shake themselves to pieces, that is why overunity devices of any description go into runaway mode.

"True resonance" deserves a title separate from mere "resonance". Resonance is merely sympathetic vibration. True resonance is MUTUAL INHERENT resonance. True resonance in any form actually scares me. If uncontrolled or unfocused, it will destroy anything merely resonant within it's sphere of influence.

For instance, if I make a self amplifying truly resonant field of any kind (sound, magnetic, mechanical vibration, etc...) whatever it influences that is resonant in any manner will vibrate. The problem is that it will not vibrate properly, it will not share the EXACT frequency of vibration. This will cause the field (which is by definition self amplifying, therefore continually getting stronger) to superimpose more and more energy into the sympathetic object, which will fight against its own NATURAL INHERENT resonant frequency, which is close, but not exact, in reference to the superimposed field.

This means that the sympathetic object quite literally "shakes itself to pieces" in some manner. Put quite simply, it has no choice but to self destruct, as the impressed field eventually grows stronger than the forces which hold it together...... Now for the crutch of the matter. It is practically impossible to build a device which is truly resonant to a given field. You can only build a device, THEN find it's true resonance frequencies.

WHY?

Good question. Do you know the exact mass, number of free electrons etc.. If you do, can you build the device with tolerances into the ten thousandths of an inch? THIS IS THE KIND OF INFO AND BUILD YOU NEED to design for true resonance. Not impossible, just more difficult than I can achieve. (Unless you have a team of machinists, EE's, and Physicists, it is beyond you too.)

THAT IS WHY OU DEVICES ARE SUCH A PAIN TO REPLICATE. Even if you had blueprints, you would still not achieve a working device without experimentation.

Now, why does tesla gain my respect? He was not a mental failure.

There is only one way to truly fail, and it is the worst type of mentality, and that is not to try. By not trying, you are guaranteed failure. Even a half-a\$\$ed attemp has a small chance of success.  Most scientists (whether you like it or not) fall into the failure category, as they CAN think outside the box. They just refuse to even try, therefore gain NOTHING truly new, but modify the heck out of ideas they do not even truly understand.

A handful have my respect, whether I agree with them or not, as at least they TRIED.

Those whom sit back and laugh at, or abjectly write off, concepts before attempting to understand them merely demonstrate their own inadequacies and inabilities. To bad they are self-imposed, more the shame.

If some think this last arrogant...it may well be. I don't know. I just know that it is true.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on May 13, 2008, 05:50:49 AM
Well said Paul.   I  never liked the tpu dragless alternator because of it's ability to reach resonance with Earth's spin energy field.  I'd rather use the kick to catalyze mass to energy conversion in a linear designed machine like Tesla's machine for wireless energy transmission.  Then let the Earth recharge the copper mass.  No need for resonance. Resonance gathers energy from time compression.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: otto on May 13, 2008, 06:13:59 AM
Hello all,

@Paul

Can we get "true resonance"?? How??

Otto
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 13, 2008, 08:03:03 AM
@all

I have a major brain-fart going on here..... Major.

I am witnessing something which my brain refuses to accept. I have a massive bright signal, of 180volts! WITH ZERO current, even with a load????????? I am not joking, not even 1uA!

As expected, you short with a resistor, and the voltage drops (in this case drastically).... BUT STILL NO AMPERAGE!!!!!!!!!!

What in the heck?????

Electricity can be looked at like a hose full of water. Voltage is the pressure of the water in the hose, amperage is the amount of water that is flowing. Putting a load on a circuit is like opening the valve, allowing water to flow. So, I open a valve, and the water is just bulges out alot (loses pressure or voltage), but REFUSES to flow????

Paul Andrulis <-utterly and totally confused

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: b0rg13 on May 13, 2008, 08:17:36 AM
hi Paul, can you please provide a drawing of the setup  for us ? , thank you in advance.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 13, 2008, 08:42:16 AM
@Otto

You came close to true resonance, have PHYSICALLY FELT A FIELD and fried your electronics. Loner slagged a ferrite core. You BOTH have come closer than I!

Otto, do you have any idea how strong ANY field has to be for you to feel it in any manner??????? Think of it this way, have you waved your hand around a neodium magnet? You didn't feel ANYTHING correct? THAT FIELD AROUND THE MAGNET WAS IN THE MEGAGAUSS!!!!! MEGA----MILLIONS of GAUSS!!!!! You had a field slap you that you felt! Your field was self amplifying, or it never COULD have attained such strength. (I almost left a brown stain in my underwear when I heard this...) Wasn't it you who had coronal discharge off of metal objects in your shop?

Let me give the best effects I have had so far, to put everything into perspective. I have felt a rotating field ONCE, and only for a very short time (30 minutes or so). It was extremely close in to the coil, and was not rotating very fast. I had my sister who was in my lab validate this effect, and she could feel it too. (I didn't lead her either, just asked her to place her hand in a certain position and describe what she felt.) This failed after a time, and detectable rotation stopped.

I have now a 180Volt signal which is not wanting to be (or at least act like) electricity....... GAG!

You fried your oscilloscope! Mount that sucker on the wall as a trophy!!! :D

Concerning true resonance, I just have some ponderings, but time alone will tell if they are true. Concerning the main point, check your TPU-ECD thread. I described a long time ago, with graphics, my understanding of self-reinforcing frequency relationships, or true resonance. I was talking DC square wave, but the same principles would apply for Sine, or any other waveform as well if my understanding is correct at all.

The main reason I am interested in DC Square Wave is simply because it imparts more energy to a given system for a given frequency at any given voltage than the other possabilities, except for MAYBE a voltage spike.

I wonder about this as I always turn on my scope before firing up the generators attached to the coil, and notice the massive voltage surge coming from the collector when the units fire up.... Even with the probe on 10x it is off the top of the screen for a split second. Maybe voltage spikes through the collectors are the way to go. I intend to test ALL possibilities. (I am starting to think that is what SM was referring to as "kicks" anyway, as ..... OH MY!!!!!

@Loner

Try to make your control coils, NOT the collectors, capacative, but ONLY enough to remove self induction. Follow Tesla's pancake coil principle if you have to!

I am going to try to design a frequency specific spike generating circuit ASAP!!!!! Even JITTER phases spikes! (Jitter is good?)

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: otto on May 13, 2008, 08:53:31 AM
Hello Paul and all the people here

Here is the "secret" to true resonance in our coils:

1. build the coils like Mannix showed us
2. from your power supply +12V AND THEN RISE THE VOLTAGE

If you have enough money you can play in this manner: You will blow the MOSFETs amd maybe your scope.

I WARN YOU, ITS DANGEROUS.

Otto
Title: CIRCUIT !! Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pese on May 13, 2008, 09:14:44 AM
@ Pauldude

I your circuit is something wrong , and cant work this way !

The first Transistor cant drawn any current , works , switch, oscilatte or do anything, BECAUSE
the first diode hold the base, in any way below 0,8 volts , so , no voltages/currents can flow after the emitter + second  diode.

review your circuit that it can work with the 555 together

gustav pese
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pese on May 13, 2008, 09:23:11 AM
@ pauldude

in your circuit is something wrong.
pls review ist.

Ref:  : The first diode hold the Base
of NPN in range of 0,6-0,8 volts.
so the emeitter + Diode2 , can not drwn any
current , voltages , swich, oszillating or others.
so ... it cant work wit the "555" together.
pls review it

gustav pese
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 13, 2008, 11:04:11 AM
@Pese

I double checked, both my schematic, my first draw, and the original, and it is correct.

The initial idea is not mine. I remember coming across it from a circuit diagram online. I searched, an found the original, which I hated as they used a square block diagram with no R or C values and put the pins where convenient to draw, not convenient to breadboard. I modified this in that I did away with an unnecessary connection, made it easy to convert to a breadboard, and modified its scope and applicational usage. The original was a single 555 driving diagram, of which my original post of the schematic was a direct interpretation.

Anyway, I will quote the inventor of the original timing circuit and his reasoning:

From:

"When the output is high, the transistor is biased into saturation by R2 so that the charging current passes through the transistor and R1 to C. When the output goes low, the discharge transistor (pin 7) cuts off the transistor and discharges the capacitor through R1 and the diode. The high & low periods are equal. The value of the capacitor (C) and the resistor (R1 or potmeter) is not given. It is a mere example of how to do it and the values are pending on the type of application, so choose your own values. The diode can be any small signal diode like the NTE519, 1N4148, 1N914 or 1N3063, but a high conductance Germanium or Schottky type for the diode will minimize the diode voltage drops in the transistor and diode. However, the transistor should have a high beta so that R2 can be large and still cause the transistor to saturate. The transistor can be a TUN (europe), NTE123, 2N3569 and most others."

The original replies to the 555 schematics start at reply no 1385 in Otto's "Successful TPU-ECD" thread, and end at 1395 on page 35. Check out the screenshots of this non working circuit, working, my friend! :D (By the way, you will notice quickly that I draw my own schematics.)

@Loner

You are right, this circuit is FAST. I can overclock the bejeebers out of a TS555CN to the currently measured max of 4.9mhz (though the datasheet says 2.7 mhz max) depending upon components used. Check out otto's thread and my original posts. I have screenshots of the breadboarded unit with the freq meter showing output at 4.1 or so mhz. The wave suffers at such high freq, but it still oscillates!

However, as wierd as the connections seem. IT DOES WORK.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pese on May 13, 2008, 12:05:57 PM
@Pese

I double checked, both my schematic, my first draw, and the original, and it is correct.

The initial idea is not mine. I remember coming across it from a circuit diagram online. I searched, an found the original, which I hated as they used a square block diagram with no R or C values and put the pins where convenient to draw, not convenient to breadboard. I modified this in that I did away with an unnecessary connection, made it easy to convert to a breadboard, and modified its scope and applicational usage. The original was a single 555 driving diagram, of which my original post of the schematic was a direct interpretation.

Anyway, I will quote the inventor of the original timing circuit and his reasoning:

From:

"When the output is high, the transistor is biased into saturation by R2 so that the charging current passes through the transistor and R1 to C. When the output goes low, the discharge transistor (pin 7) cuts off the transistor and discharges the capacitor through R1 and the diode. The high & low periods are equal. The value of the capacitor (C) and the resistor (R1 or potmeter) is not given. It is a mere example of how to do it and the values are pending on the type of application, so choose your own values. The diode can be any small signal diode like the NTE519, 1N4148, 1N914 or 1N3063, but a high conductance Germanium or Schottky type for the diode will minimize the diode voltage drops in the transistor and diode. However, the transistor should have a high beta so that R2 can be large and still cause the transistor to saturate. The transistor can be a TUN (europe), NTE123, 2N3569 and most others."

The original replies to the 555 schematics start at reply no 1385 in Otto's "Successful TPU-ECD" thread, and end at 1395 on page 35. Check out the screenshots of this non working circuit, working, my friend! :D (By the way, you will notice quickly that I draw my own schematics.)

@Loner

You are right, this circuit is FAST. I can overclock the bejeebers out of a TS555CN to the currently measured max of 4.9mhz (though the datasheet says 2.7 mhz max) depending upon components used. Check out otto's thread and my original posts. I have screenshots of the breadboarded unit with the freq meter showing output at 4.1 or so mhz. The wave suffers at such high freq, but it still oscillates!

However, as wierd as the connections seem. IT DOES WORK.

Paul Andrulis

Hallo Paul.
Even if this work (by not to understand circumstances) as leackage currents in transitor, it cant work by this scematcs:

Look:

at the output of the transistor (afre the second diode) you must an an voltage -to have an here, vers low current-.
Even if it is only 0,05 to 0,1 volts.
(but possible you will use 0,6 to 0,7 volt -limited by the diode-)

so:
you must have at the point between emitter and diode(Kathode) at lest 0,7 to 0,8 volts)
SO.:
Iso the transistor must "conduct" that an current can flow fro, collector to emitter.
(if the transistor is not demagend or lecking) so the base of this transitor must be
supplied with at lest 0,55 to 0,7 volt HIGHER (positive voltages) than the emitter.

So you must have 1,4 to 1,5 (or little higher) that the transistor begin to conduct
as an "voltage-follower-trap (current aplifier) "

Use  2 or 3 diodes in front. use an resistor 10kohm to supply (+)
connect the primpot 50kohm between ground and  the 10kohm/diodes.
(that point have now  1,5 or 2,2 volt !!
So you can take aut the "slider" from (10-turn-trimpot any voltage between 0 to 2,2 volt (1,5)
ot opereate in better condition with the transistor.

Is the 10 pf condensor right ? .
Than you work with "higher" frequencies !
Attention !!
Thin abaou blocking condendemsort co connect here . also between supply and ground, to reduce
wrong oscillation that can produced by the wirerings in circuits like this.

I have uses lot of time to find out this problems if i start with this experiments near 50 years ago

Pese

In THE CIRCUIT is now the BASE supplieds with max 0,7 Volt
the voltage drp in transitor will be also be nearby 0,7 volts.

If your circuit is (possibly) working , that PALY with very low voltages and currents
and is this "unuasal circuit" not in stabile condition. in this way, taht "everyone reconstructin from
this scematic will work. (Even the transitor can "inmitted" fully by small changes in scematic
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on May 13, 2008, 06:29:38 PM
@ Pauldude

Matter to achieve perpectuation through the spacetime continuom (resonance) has to achieve a state of spin.  Either it's spinning or falling apart.  A change in the dielectric field or charge intelligence of this field is energetic or antiinertial.  It is change as is all "energy".  This change seems to radiate but what realitivisticly happens is it alters the spacetime intelligence of the field it was inacted upon and the observer "sees" radiation while his inertial frame navigates the spacetime continuom.
This is a realitivistic model of the kick phenomenon.   Tesla's model of  the spacetime continuom is described in terms that are  much more intuitively accepted.  Instead of modeling the entire universe into a two dimensional virtual state he uses the aetheric model.   Whereas the aether is given fluid properties and a 3 dimensional virtual state.  Energy or change displaces this aetheric sea of inertia.   The kick still represents change but is imposed on a virtual 3d sea of inertia..  This aetheric liquid composed of inertia is "displaced" by energy.  This displacement travels through the aetheric liquid compressing it and expanding it as it goes.  Much more intuitively understood.  Using either model all matter must spin to achieve resonance.  All potential energy in the spin state of matter is translated into change when the spin state of the matter is altered.  An energy displacement or kick of the aetheric liquid creates aetheric friction on the spin state of matter.  This friction alters the mass spin resonance and translatory energy is released which of course causes more displacement of the inertial sea.   I suggest SM was referring to this when he was talking about his cannons firing cannons firing cannons etc.  Tesla and Einstein both saying the same thing but Einstein was a mathmatician and Tesla a visonary.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 13, 2008, 10:37:14 PM
@pese

I am not going to argue over something as dumb as this (not your arguments, they make sense,  the situation is dumb).

I would not have posted the circuit, unless I had already breadboarded and tested the circuit. There is alot of wierd things that happen but "shouldn't". The circuit works... build it before you tell me how it "can't", then explain to yourself when you look at the squares on your scope why it is working. Then get back to me and tell me why.

I found a schematic, tried it, liked it, modified it, use it, and am sharing it.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on May 14, 2008, 12:04:16 AM
please review the below link.  It shows how rf catalyst energy can be used in a device much safer than an aether spinner.

Little bit of good physics offered also by a very nice voice

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pese on May 14, 2008, 12:53:10 AM
@pese

I am not going to argue over something as dumb as this (not your arguments, they make sense,  the situation is dumb).

I would not have posted the circuit, unless I had already breadboarded and tested the circuit. There is alot of wierd things that happen but "shouldn't". The circuit works... build it before you tell me how it "can't", then explain to yourself when you look at the squares on your scope why it is working. Then get back to me and tell me why.

I found a schematic, tried it, liked it, modified it, use it, and am sharing it.

Paul Andrulis

O no , it is OK.
It is possibel . THAT ONE CIRCUIT ist working "with you" and with YOUR CHOSEN components.
BUT is "shown for me" possibel, that an replication from other users - will not work-  This is the only one tat i sayd. If so. The users can construct changes in this trap.
I understand the circuit, and how if will and must work.

I seen a lot of "naudins circuits" with bad chosen components. that work outside the normal spects from datasheets, but if that work in the circuit. THE mext devive can possible not work, i he use semniconductors, from same type from other manufacturers or only from another lot . (I don over 40jyears , semiconduictor tests for consumers and industry, so i know the problems in the "production area.  Your Circuit and scematic , it is principially OK so.
(but ... if...)
G.Pese
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 14, 2008, 02:47:49 AM
@pese

In that aspect, I can understand. I have tested this circuit with some NE555's (bipolar) , and they do work, but will NOT overclock past 500K. That is why I specified the TS555CN, as it does. Out of five tested, I have only had one that refused to work right with the circuit. It did display bad waveform and low voltage, though the frequency was stable. With a different TS555CN though, it worked.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 14, 2008, 03:11:35 AM
@pese

One thing I noticed. It is not really that device specific, beyond the 555 itself.

I have built this circuit with various makes and models of components. For instance, I am using a 2n5551 right now, but a different gen purpose NPN on a different boarded situation.

I have replicated this aprox 3 DIFFERENT times on 2 different breadboards, with various timers replaced in the circuit, CMOS and Bipolar, and innumerable timing cap/pot variations. I have used 1n4148, 1n914, and other small signal diodes, and several NPN transistors..... It has worked pretty well every time, just with differences of available bandwidth.

The circuit has bands at the bottom of the resistance range that you can use to the base of the transistor. If you go to low it will not oscillate. Too high and the same. It also has a definitive upper and lower Timing Pot resistance limit depending upon the components you use. However, I have yet to see a failure of oscillation, or of a completely unstable circuit.

Times I have modified components? 20 or 30 or more? Heck, the version I am trying NOW is using different pots than what is listed in the schematic. (two 10k same transistor and diodes, but with 12pf caps... and it still works.)

That is why I am confused a little by the hesitation to try it. Build it yourself, see if you can over-clock my max of 4.9Mhz! (that may have been a limitation of that particular chip!) :D

Have fun with it! Build a serious circuit with it!

@all

I made a mistake. I bought some Mosfet drivers..... AND DIDN'T PAY ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT THEY WERE SMT! (I do not have the equiptment or experience for SMT devices.)

Does anybody want them? (just enough stamps to get them to you is the cost.) \$7.00 out the window They are 8pin, and tiny!

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: mercurymmm on May 14, 2008, 05:23:22 AM
Nicely done.

I know about UEC and where it's incorporated...not in U.S.

I just stumbled upon this site and... intrigued to read what people are saying.

Mercury
mercurymmm@yahoo.com
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on May 14, 2008, 05:55:28 AM
cool mercman

Maybe you can persuade Steven to come forward and take credit for all the work he did back in 98.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: nickc44 on May 15, 2008, 03:28:26 PM
@ Otto and All

There is no harm in tyring tubes as there is no harm in tyring any of the combonations, the more
combonations we use the better chance we will find an answer.

If these threads are about anything they're about SM's words and one of the things he said
is...  you will find the answer easier by using tubes. Transistors are dirty things..

Tubes helped him to find the combonation that worked and then.. Even with the correct answer
it took him a long time to get the answer in SS.

This may be the same reason musicians use tube amps
They like the smooth sound that comes form them. That clean sound
and signal may be what is needed..

So OTTO good work keep it up and thanks for your time

Nick

Hello all,

@AM

I have to be honest: I promised a nice man here in the forum to build my tube oscillators.....

35 years ago I learned everything about tubes. I was really good. Tube radios, tube TVs. In the times of tubes I learned in school how to repair tube TVs and in the same time had a lot of TVs to repair!! And I earned a good money as a very joung guy.Then came the time with transistors, ICs.......and as it happens, I forgot everything about tubes....

How I see the development of a TPU:

- SM was a TV repair man, he knew about the TV story and wanted to know what happened when the TV got out of frequencies.
- I think he was playing around with a deflection coil
- as a TV had tubes, SM used them also in his work
- the voltage on tubes plates is say 300V more or less
- with such signals he was pulsing his TPU and got it work
- later he had to use SS because tubes are a little big, ha,ha.
- with SS devices, to say MOSFETs, he had nice signals but at a low voltage level and so he had to think about how to rise the voltage of the signals - to get biiiig signals, like with tubes
- the solution is well seen: additional coil(s) sitting in the center of the TPU

In this way he got an easier acceleration of the particles, he didnt had to use a soooo high frequency to accelerate the tornado and at an unknown (?) frequency mix the tornado accelerates for itself so....
He got nice clean signals
and he got biiiig signals

This all I see with my setup.
I only need to rise a little the voltage from my power supply and then......I can again repair my equipment.

I think its enough crap from me this week.

Otto

PS: AM, maybe you know something about the AlMn alloy???

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: otto on May 16, 2008, 06:44:07 AM
Hello all,

@Nick44 and all

Without a discussion: TUBES!!

I saw it in my 2 years: MOSFETs are really dirty. A lot of hash, a lot of heat, a lot of s..t.
When Im mixing my frequencies I see a lot of times that my bulb "wants" but the SS oscillators shuts OFF!!
Then I see when my signals are clear, without hash, my bulb shines like a champ.

Of course there are a lot of other reasons to use tubes:

1. SS oscillators

signals on the output = 5V - 12V or a little more - this is the "start" point - this signal is feeded into the TPU
from the power supply 12V - 50V/ 2 - 5A

5A when you totally missed the frequency mix, or you have a short in your coils or....

2. tube oscillators

signals on the output - plate - say, from 200V and much more - THIS is the new "start" point
from the power supply you can have any voltage you want!! Higher voltage, less current.

I really dont want to teach people here. They are really good!! But....

If there is a little Tesla in our forum I want to ask because I dont know and I didnt see it:

How can I build SS oscillators that can gives me signals in hundreds of volts?? Hmmm....maybe wrong question.

We all have signals swirling in out TPUs from say 400V and up - I have 1200V! just with coils.

This signals we got from our SS oscillators that gave us 5 - 15V signals and MOSFETs.

As Marco is quiet, not posting his results, Im asking myself:

Whats the level of the voltage  IN THE TPU when I use tubes?? We all know that the coils rises our signals. Yes, I know, it depends also on the voltage from the power supply. THIS IS THE GOOD NEWS!!!!

Im not hanging anymore on the voltages from 12V - 50V DC from my power supply!!! Im free to try voltages that I WANT!! In this way I can play, I hope not forever, ha,ha.

Didnt "dfro" say: rise the voltage from your battery?? Ooooo, I have a "special battery". But I can use it only with tubes!!

The people here in the forum have luck: if my English would be better I wou much more post but...

Otto
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on May 16, 2008, 01:53:21 PM
This circuit uses a # of tubes to replace spark gaps.  The television needs to be plugged in but which bulbs will be brighter.  Power feedback via a solar panel and inverter would work but I'm getting low on rescources.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 16, 2008, 09:24:47 PM
@all

Like I said before... If you want to use tubes, USE tubes! SM in the videos wasn't so I am not......

@Sparks

If you are silly enough to do what you propose in your "schematic", then you better do some research on X-Ray production, as you may leave a nice picture of your bones on the wall! (I post this for safety)

@Otto

You had better research the same. (concerning X-Rays) Too high of voltage and tubes don't necessarily mix.

@all again

Radio fields and electromagnetic shielding are the least of our worries!

Nobody building TPUS needs to flop like a fish due to electrical shock, die unnecessarily from cancer due to an X-Ray bath, etc., etc., etc.

Be safe people.

In my various hobbies, I HAVE been subject to dangerous levels of electrical shock, and it is NOT fun. I have awakened laying behind a couch, because my arm brushed both a frame ground and the wrong wire at the same time. I have had to check to see if someone needs CPR, because they bumped a primary of a working Oudin coil. (Thank goodness it was a tiny one. Probably only 80 or 90 joules, instead of 600 or 1000....) A man I knew is dying from cancer due to X-ray production because of a laser he was building.

I have designed and built everything from quarter million volt tesla coils, to higher amperage lower voltage oudin coils, to 5000volt much higher amperage D'Arsonval high frequency autotransformers. I have built Van De Graff, and Wimhurst electrostatic machines. ALL OF THEM ARE LETHAL. There is no such thing as SAFE electricity.

Concerning High Frequency Electricity...... this stuff is particularly deadly. Not necessarily from the direct shock, but the induced fields and unwanted particle emission. The person whom thinks otherwise will end up taking a dirt nap sooner or later, just a matter of time.

Consider anything with high voltage lethal, and anything with caps even though battery powered as dangerous. When working with voltages above 110, USE ONE HAND, with the other in your back pocket to keep it completely out of the way.

Safety is no joke, and what we are working with here can be dangerous if not lethal. Assume lethal, to minimize it's danger.

Sorry, but this needs to be stated.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 16, 2008, 10:13:44 PM
@all

Sorry for the lack of posts lately. I have been building and testing. I will post more when I have more relevant ideas, news, or data. At this moment I am VERY busy.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on May 17, 2008, 04:07:13 AM

@Pauldude

The first thing I did after taking the tv back panel off was to check for a shield around the flyback.
No shield.  It's a small set.  I place a small flurescent there that lights up.  Trying to grab some of the xrays there.  Then I series fed the crt through a small  flurescent and it lights up.  I'm up to about 10 watts cold electricity at this point..  Then I wound a 4 turn bifilar around a 40 watt 18" down placed one end near the flyback and fed the coil on one end from the flyback output,  it lights up between the flyback and the coil pretty darn bright. Now I think I'm up to about 15 watts illumination. Plus the crt and all the other goodies the flyback drives.
What did I learn from all of this?  High voltage stressed space gets cold. Bulbs are lit but they are colder than the surrounding air. There is plazma inside the flurescents so they should be getting hot.
Cold plazma.  Maybe the aether is a cold plazma and the electric field keeps it dispersed enough so you don't see any temperature rise. There is a shitload of energy in the plazma but it is not relavent to anything until we mess with it's stratification. hmmmm
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: mdmiller on May 17, 2008, 06:02:40 AM

...... "I cracked the Steven Mark device and it is to dangerous to give out. Half the homes in the country would have gone up in flames if I had handed that out. I'll crack this one too. If it is the best after I crack Meyers's invention you will see it on the net. So, I'm working on it like I said. "......
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on May 17, 2008, 06:17:37 AM
If this person had cracked the TPU - he would know how to contain the energy - the field.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: turbo on May 17, 2008, 01:57:37 PM
Most of the people think that nobody has still replicated a working TPU.
This is not so.
The TPU has been replicated many times in many diffrent configurations but all with the same needed set of parameters to make it work.
Some people ask where are all the answers? did we miss them??
The answers are right under there noses but they are too busy discussing other things like who is gay and who is not or where the energy is comming from...

M.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on May 17, 2008, 02:04:45 PM
@ Marco

When they get working right does the collector get cold while the emitter gets warm or vice versa?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: turbo on May 17, 2008, 02:25:14 PM
If you mean the heating problem this has been solved.

M.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on May 17, 2008, 02:40:48 PM
@Marco

I'm referring to  normal dynamic operation of the tpu.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: turbo on May 17, 2008, 02:49:04 PM
If you load it heavier it will heat up more the main output winding which is to be expected, but not like in the old days where the units heated up to a point of self destruction with or without load.
You can think of it as improvement.
There are a lot of other factors that directly influence it's operating characteristics.

M.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on May 17, 2008, 02:54:45 PM
Very easy in the tpu to exchange collector for emitter I would suggest.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: turbo on May 17, 2008, 03:14:57 PM
Well Sparks i don't really understand what you mean.
Maybe you can be more clear?
The collector exactly does what it's name says, it collects it does not emit anything exept for a little bit of heat.
As you know the emitting is done by other coils.

M.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on May 17, 2008, 03:23:53 PM
If you load it heavier it will heat up more the main output winding which is to be expected, but not like in the old days where the units heated up to a point of self destruction with or without load.
You can think of it as improvement.
There are a lot of other factors that directly influence it's operating characteristics.

M.

you got something---or not?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: turbo on May 17, 2008, 03:40:55 PM

you got something---or not?

I have absolutly Nothing.
I guessed that would be clear by now...
Just wanted to raise the thought that it can be wrong to think nobody replicated it.....

M.

PS:
Don't be fooled by people who offer video's they only want the technology...to get rich!
They do not have any clue about what it does but they do talk alot about what they think it does, these are two diffrent things.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Spider on May 17, 2008, 08:11:49 PM
Aha we are back online!

This guy , Richard Burgeson, also writes:

What failed my inspection on the Steven Mark device. After I got it running it did produce power. The flaw I didn't like was current going higher than the wire the device was made with could handle. Current is squared in the power formula, if you are not so inclined I won't bore you with the details. When you loose control of the circuit it produced an instant violent fire. There are people still trying to overcome this flaw. If they do you may end up using the circuit after all.

Has anybody ever been in contact with him? Is he here too?
His phone is listed.......

Greetings Rene
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Earl on May 17, 2008, 10:06:00 PM
Very easy in the tpu to exchange collector for emitter I would suggest.

Yes and no, depends on whether NPN or PNP  ;D

Earl
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 18, 2008, 05:42:32 AM
@Sparks

You missed the point. Research what happens when a stream of electrons of high enough potential strikes a plate at an angle in an evacuated tube........

You dont "catch" x-rays, they punch right through everything but your bones. They punch through cells, and they punch through DNA chains like they are not there. They "punch", like a bullet, right through your entire body.  In essence, enough exposure WILL cause cancer....

A modern flyback transformer, uses a high frequency transformer, and a voltage multiplier circuit (cap and diode). This is all embedded in epoxy.  It is a modern use for a tesla coil. However, its output due to the cap/diode multiplier makes it DC. It is not "cold electricity"....

If you short that flyback through you, it can and probably WILL kill you.

Paul
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on May 18, 2008, 03:17:18 PM
@Pauldude

Thankyou for your warnings about xrays near the flyback.  I should have done this in the posts showing the pictures.

The bulb that is in series with the crt has the stressed high voltage field but instead of stressing a heated metal like in the picture tube it is stressing the gas inside the flurescent bulb.  This stress condenses the gas in the tube to plazma.  The plazma now becomes cold compared to all the rest of the heat distribution in the Universe.  This all happens without any voltage drop from the crt circuit.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: infringer on May 18, 2008, 09:48:44 PM
May be of importance to the TPU but a chunk of metal as described as being used by SM's TPU may be true ...

Here is why this chunk of metal being used may be important.

Have a look

Below is just Theory of my own: Dont read if theory is not what you are looking for.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Theroizing here maybe the frequency is important because it causes the kaye effect (possibly labled wrong) which pushes sinus waves jumping forward out in front of the exsisting waves and eventually catches up to the wave and hits it in the behind creating a kick which increasingly pushes the wave faster and faster thus the wave jumping also happens faster and kicks more often till there is kicks galore which also increases the current of the pulsed dc voltage with lower current.

This could also be the reason why the tpu held at differnt angles causes problems the kaye effect can easily be seen with dishsoap and a pan held at an angle. I will get a link for a visual to that effect as well.

Bing Bing Bing we have a winner

I just keep hanging on the fact that SM says that the principal of the TPU basically already exsists and is already known maybe it is an effect we are looking for....

Way outside the box possibly frequency is like wind speed for electricity and somehow the coanada effect is used in an abstract manner... Definately my least important comment but I dunno I've seen lots of discussion of the workings of the TPU and my mind cant seem to settle on any one thing.

Marco is interesting in all this he acts as if he knows but clearly states otherwise that he simply believes rather then knows its almost like a religous thing for marco... At times it leads people to believe he knows more then he actually does which is simply as much as you and I !

-infringer-
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 19, 2008, 11:15:11 PM
@all

Some updates, and conclusions, now that I have a second to breathe.....

After winding and testing several TPU's (6 and soon to be 7 after complete testing of the current design) I have noticed some very interesting things.

1. A TPU is definately specific to frequency, which like SM stated IS dependant upon circumference.

I am talking about control input frequencies. For instance, the two "tiny" coils I wound and described earlier had a much higher intrinsic frequency range (way out of my ability to generate) than my larger units. I estimate based upon lobe amplification patterns somewhere around but below 20Mhz.

The largest unit tested (the one posted about both here and in loner's thread), has a lobe amplification frequency range of around 6Mhz.

My testing is currently limited to 5Mhz max AC rail to rail, and 2Mhz DC rail to ground.

I expect my newest wind to be completely within my testing range, as it has a massive 12"circumference. (Sucker weighs about four pounds or more. WHEEW)

2. The "Standing Wave" effect will not happen until very close to the actual resonant frequency.

Through the various coils/designs, achieving but a hint of a standing wave has been problematic, and until this last wind, not very successful. This last wind output AC, and was close, but not quite, an accomplishment of the desired standing wave.

3. The "Standing Wave", is the desired goal.

It hit me like a thunderbolt, that the output at full resonance is a self amplifying standing wave. This is NOT desirable. What IS desired is a slightly off frequency standing wave, which is self sustaining, but hampered by sub and super harmonics.

What your scope would see  with a self amplifying wave is a DC offset rising in magnitude, until the scope could no longer track it, leading to the demise of the scope itself.

What your scope would see with an off frequency standing wave is a somewhat steady DC line RIDDLED with superimposed harmonics. Quite literally "DC with Hash". More hash than you could shake a stick at, probably with tens of thousands of readable traces. Quite literally a DC "flame", to describe what it would look like upon close scope inspection, of high, low, and intermediate frequencies all blended.

@whoever asked a schematic for the last wind, with the 200v signal

I haven't forgotten, just haven't had time. I still intend to post it for you.

@all again

I also intend to post pics of all the tpu's I have tested, in order, with reasons behind each TPU construction/design. Time seems to be what I am shortest of right now.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 21, 2008, 05:50:12 PM
@all

Some preliminary results:

First, a description. 10 guage solid collectors (three wound pancake, stacked vertically insulated from each other.) of three full turns. Two different sets of controls.

1st Set: Quadrature winding of four coils CW. (Wind first for full quarter circle, then next, and so on.)

2nd Set: Four bifiliar (all four wound at once) CW around entire TPU.

(Later I will add a third set over this, consisting of three at 120 degrees.)

I have noticed an increase of available power. With a 10X probe, and 5V/Div. setting on the scope, I show 120V with one frequency generator driving one set of coils. Before, voltage would drop to almost non-existance with a load, with my best being the previous coil putting out over 240+ Volts, but dropping to 2V with any kind of a load. With this coil, applying a load only drops the voltage to 25V, which is MUCH better.

@Otto

I re-read your pdf just for ideas, and noticed something important. Otto, when you speak of sines, you are referring to sines induced on the top of squares in the output in your pdf scope shots. When I speak of sines, I am referring to pure sine wave AC. For instance, the 120V above mentioned refers to 120 Volt Peak to Peak Sine Wave A.C.

I am not talking "spikes", Modulated square wave signals, etc.... Pure true A.C. I am generating this with pulsed square wave DC at 15v PtoP signal, with just a frequency generator....... NO EXTERNAL POWER SUPPLY, NO MOSFET DRIVERS, ETC..... JUST SIGNAL GENERATOR! IE diddly squat input power.

I think I have possibly found a different principle, available from the same device. Or maybe  that this may be inherent with the DC with hash, if we are  talking a Standing Wave of Sine A.C.. (You would only see one voltage point of a standing wave A.C., it would appear as a seemingly D.C. source. The pseudo D.C. voltage point would necessarily be whatever angle of the sine that appears at the output of the collector.)

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 21, 2008, 06:07:58 PM
@otto

You may be a genius!

@All

Contemplating for a sec over otto's and Ronotte's  PDF gave me an idea....

How possibly to wind for specific tuning to a specific frequency.... EASILY.....

Thanks Otto.... NOW I HAVE TO WIND ANOTHER ONE!!!!  >:(  ;D

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 21, 2008, 06:08:31 PM
Instead of ---> ****another duplicate post... sorry****

I am going to turn this into something worthwhile.

@all

I have a question, that maybe someone here can answer, as I am befuddled by something....

(Note FG = Function Generator, all pulsing done on quadrature control coils, 2 opposing in series of four for each FG. All voltage measurements taken from collectors with 10x probe and scope at either 1v or 5v. Collectors not connected electrically to controls. Only inductive coupling.)

Why does input voltage (not amperage) play such a LARGE role in output voltage at a specific frequency????

On my current coil, I can get a nine volt signal on the collectors with my digital FG output set at 1V even.... Yet, this same FG at it's max 10 volts PtoP produces only around 50 Volts P to P on the collectors.

With all connections the same, at the same frequency, my B&K at ten volts produces the same 50 Volts output using the same set of controls. Yet my B&K goes to 15 volts PtoP, and at its highest setting of 15 Volts PtoP I get over 120 Volts output PtoP on the collectors!

If 1 volt produces 9 volts, and 10 produces 50, then why 15 producing 120 ?????? This is definately a non-linear event of some kind..

The ratios do not make any sense: 1to9 1to5 and 1to8..... ?

Also, the last five volts producing well over half the output???

Now, the same TPU, with BOTH FGs running a series CC section of two coils each yields only max 125 Volts together. Remember the B&K at full output producing 120 volts, and the Digital producing 50 by itself. Shut either off, and you get exactly the aforementioned for each....

Any Ideas???

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 22, 2008, 04:30:42 AM
@loner

Your interpretation is close. Fed directly from the FG with squares 15 PtoP D.C.. Ouput from the collectors is pure sine A.C..

I am ready to tentatively accept most anything at this point.... I am confused. It may well be RE or something. It sure isn't acting like the electricity I know.

If this is non-linear additive, then I am going to have to be VERY careful of applied voltage. I wonder if more power input in watts per same voltage will increase the output.

It may well sound familiar. I wound it using all premises found in SM's statements in the PDF. 3 horizontal collectors of at least three turns. 3 or more (IE 4) collectors (in quadrature), and "more control wires wrapped around the entire circumference" (4 in bifiliar). I intend to test output with the collectors feeding back into one then the other control set, with the opposite pulsed.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on May 22, 2008, 09:16:20 PM
@ Paul - you are seeing the same square-to-sine conversion that I've seen several times now. At lower frequencies you can sometimes see the input square pulses riding on top of the sines, which demonstrates to me that there is indeed a conversion of some sort taking place, not just plain inductance and transformation. The sine wave frequency appeared to be a fraction of the square input frequency, like 1:20 or so (now I wish I had paid more attention). The first time I saw this is when I had started playing with feedback from the secondaries into the primaries, way back at what I call TPU1, and again in TPU4. http://www.randallsteward.com/TPU/ (http://www.randallsteward.com/TPU/) The super-imposed square would rise from the sine trace, stay on for 50%, then drop back down. If we assume the sine trace as zero-volts, there was no negative component shown in the square artifacts. Perhaps the negative square component is what was converted into the sine?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Tink on May 22, 2008, 09:48:33 PM
Buzz-Ard,
I got this warning from Firefox;

Reported Attack Site!

This web site at www.randallsteward.com has been reported as an attack site and has been blocked based on your security preferences.
Attack sites try to install programs that steal private information, use your computer to attack others, or damage your system.
Some attack sites intentionally distribute harmful software, but many are compromised without the knowledge or permission of their owners.

This site is currently (as of 05/22/2008) being reported to StopBadware by the following partners:

What is wrong?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on May 22, 2008, 10:08:20 PM
Dunno, but I'll sure find out. Thanks!
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: giantkiller on May 22, 2008, 10:41:27 PM
The sine wave circuit that Bolt showed me to produce for the heterodyning experiment was the key to the whole mystery. This has been working for a year and the results are still conclusive.

1: You push at the right frequency. A reciprocal pressure returns.
2: The dc with the ac hash is the DC polarized field with the ac being the resonant frequency pressure on top. You create tidal waves.
3: The rotational field can be seen in alot of places. Alot have shown the vortex aka the RMF. The water and wind based storms.
I and IS created a rotation audio pressure by heterodyning. At the right mix it is created from the applied pressures.
This was an environmental expample. Pretty simple.
4: I switched back to square waves to see the difference in the applied pressures.
5: With square waves applied, when the ring starts, or the ramping up, the high speed edges of the  pulse present a brick wall to the returning reflection. This is an abrupt force by multiplication. The scopes, the amp meters, the dogs all go flying. Ever do a belly flop? Was that usefull? What be a better way for a transistion?
6: The thump, thump, thump, is the ramp up and control just before over run.
7: Why sine waves? Smooth pressure to keep the energy at lower reactive levels compatible with copper, steel or iron conductors. The tidal wave against the wall just causes it to fly off. Pressure the force in complete balance with the reciprocal motion. Heterodyning.
8: The audio produced standing waves. The distance controllable by frequency? Yes and heterodyning too.

Ok so the previous explanations are mix of science, physics, electronics, magnetics and good old fashion 'What makes it tick?'.
I have all these aspects on my bench right now. I have all these aspects previously documented by 1 1/2 years here. I have posted all these aspects by words, explanations, and pictures. Many times over. These aspects were achieved by me doing what others have told me to do. And it all worked.
Am I trying to wreck the party? No. I am saying that the last step is to hook all this together. The last tests have gotten easier due to the fact that most of it all works at the minor levels. When I saw the ramp up, the meter go snapping into overload, the scope get blwon I saw what Otto, Ronotte, the ECD tests showed. The sine wave operation lets you see the kicks from the heterodyning with the whole system. And that can be seen to make useful. The square waves are already fast and noisy. How are you to catch that? Heterodyning with square waves looks like noise.
Heterodyning with 1 frequency. Yep. You can do it slopping in a tub of water. Same speed = same pressure. Speed equals voltage. When the water rises over the lip is where you see the kick. :o It's afterward, the end of the ramp up, the start of the runaway. ;) IALMAO Now!
The circuitry can handle the ramp up far greater than the pansy ass digital scopes can. So you can only watch it so far. But the cheapy digital VOMs are a great visual fuse. LOL. 100ma, OV, 100ma, OV, 100ma, OV. and so on and so on.

I am hooking more up this weekend. Now don't get me wrong. It has taken alot of builds and that is most unfortunate in some cases. But now I can go to the next step. Seeing is believing. The mantra, so many times, was build, build, build.

Lets stop the old experimentation techniques. Think about playing with waves. Through the conductor (DC) and across the conductor (Sine). We are not using AC here. Everything goes the same way. Atleast that is what I have seen.

Now go get 5 iron nails. Wrap 30awg from rat shack around for 2 inches. Wrap 22awg around that for 1 inch. Build a blocking oscillator with variable frequency. Pulse the outside coil that is connected back through the inside coil either the same way or opposite. Put a scope on it. And check it out! Change the freq till it sings. You now have a starting platform and an incredible insight into cheap ways. Build 3 more and you have a 4 quadrant ring. Or coil wind the nails together end to end with paper insulators. Bend them around to wire the last ends together with paper in the middle. OR take a box of  coiled soft 1/4" copper tubing. Don't unwind it. Duct tape to a window. Connect one end to a stun gun. Leave the other end an inch from the other stun gun terminal. You can communicate with animals or airplanes overhead. All the technology is right under our noses.

--giantkiller. Itty, bitty, NT coils.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 22, 2008, 10:44:17 PM
@ Paul - you are seeing the same square-to-sine conversion that I've seen several times now. At lower frequencies you can sometimes see the input square pulses riding on top of the sines, which demonstrates to me that there is indeed a conversion of some sort taking place, not just plain inductance and transformation. The sine wave frequency appeared to be a fraction of the square input frequency, like 1:20 or so (now I wish I had paid more attention). The first time I saw this is when I had started playing with feedback from the secondaries into the primaries, way back at what I call TPU1, and again in TPU4. http://www.randallsteward.com/TPU/ (http://www.randallsteward.com/TPU/) The super-imposed square would rise from the sine trace, stay on for 50%, then drop back down. If we assume the sine trace as zero-volts, there was no negative component shown in the square artifacts. Perhaps the negative square component is what was converted into the sine?

I have too in several of my air core winds, and I am now trying to amplify the effect. I tried feedback of the collectors into the controls, and DID get some small amplification, with the necessitation of a change in frequency, as it changed the fundamental operating frequency. However, something weird also happened. I started watching the whole sine "pulse" on the scope.. (like a heartbeat, and very slow about 1HZ or so) The frequency remained the same, but the amplitude of the sine was pulsing.

????

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 22, 2008, 11:07:55 PM
@Giantkiller

I see what you are saying, and I think there is merit to your words.

I also think the sine conversion is possibly a technique to stop the runaway effect. I have had ramp up with inherent low frequency pulses, yet not have had to worry about runaway yet. I have had MUCH more control over the output voltage, and now see that I can control the output voltage by the control of the input pulse voltage, which dampens the effect.

I also know that I am close to a hyperaccelerative ramp effect in input of collector voltage into the controls, where I will need a very strong (high amperage) sine source at a given voltage to control the effect, or it will accelerate itself no matter what I do except possibly tuning further off frequency. (This sucker will runaway)

I also think that close to this point, I will see a standing wave in the collectors. This will amount to a DC output, with miniscule ac harmonics controlling the voltage ramp. (Up close on the screen, imagine a DC line with superimposed harmonics using the DC line as the ground line.) I am still too low of frequency for this, but am about to build another one built on this principle to check the thought.

Truly, I think we have had every builder going in different directions around proverbial "jerry robinson's barn" to get to the same point. However, I truly do think the standing wave is the proverbial DC with hash, and is as dangerous as a rattlesnake.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: giantkiller on May 22, 2008, 11:24:14 PM
@Paul,
The rattle is very dangerous. :o I will not every turn the GK4 on again. It is copper on copper on iron. It is a 360 spherical Telsa coil with invisible bursts. A handheld EMP generator/weapon. It is suicidal for me to ever test with again.
But I got major cool with owning it! Quite the trophy. 8)

I hope that you don't experience any trauma. But it is the fastest education you'll ever have. I told IS to remove the other occupants from the house during the Audiohenge tests. :o

Copper on copper at 90 degrees at high speed creates a weapon. 8)

--giantkiller. Eyes wide open.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 23, 2008, 12:14:05 AM
@Giantkiller
The audial effects do not even need a speaker. One (my first iron core), would audibly vibrate due to the induced rotating field. The rotating field moves charged ions in the air, causing air (sonic) vibration. At the right frequency, it is called a "Sonic Pain Induction Field".

This same rotating field, if spun fast enough, should exit the perimeter of the toroid into the surrounding environment. At this point of expansion, there is no discernment between it and an EMP. It should be the same for the field collapse upon shut down. I would hate to meaitysure field strength at these points......

If I am right in my speculations, at some point it should also affect local gravity, and local magnetic field distortion. (Don't ask, I am not going to tell. Some things truly are better left buried.)

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 23, 2008, 02:01:22 AM
@Chef

I did NOT know that. Interesting. That explains a great deal. Makes sense, as everything falls under an inductance or reluctance scale. (Everything is either a conductor or resistor to magnetic field propagation, in the same manner as electricity.)

:D Heres one for you. Assume that the field is limited in a TPU (which I doubt) to mach 1. What is the RPM of the field, if it is rotating 3" from the center point? Now, what is the field shape at 24". (Note: Consider drag effects, in that it is limited to mach 1, no matter the distance from the center point.)

:D  :)  ???  :o  :(  :-X

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: vegasscorpion on May 23, 2008, 03:35:47 AM
Pauldude,

"How possibly to wind for specific tuning to a specific frequency.... EASILY....."

Could you explain this please?  Thanks
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 23, 2008, 05:00:12 AM
@vegas

Just that. :D

I haven't tested the notion yet. I will post the concept if it works, like I stated I would in the original post.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on May 23, 2008, 02:55:11 PM
@Pauldude

Somethings are better remaining buried?  Secrets or alluding to secrets tend to push the paranoia level up a notch.  How can one think clearly if he believes he pocesses knowlege no one else has the ability to understand?
Have faith in the ability of a child to learn.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 23, 2008, 08:48:32 PM
@sparks

@Pauldude

Somethings are better remaining buried?  Secrets or alluding to secrets tend to push the paranoia level up a notch.  How can one think clearly if he believes he pocesses knowlege no one else has the ability to understand?
Have faith in the ability of a child to learn.

That truly sounds good on paper, but in the entire span of humanity on earth, we can see that such is truly not so.

The simple fact is that handing a child matches, teaches the child not to play with matches. Why? The child burns his fingers.

Now, matches are a fine and good thing, and are useful. Now consider if what you are handing the child is not matches, say a loaded .45 magnum. Maybe a more accurate consideration is a hand grenade......

Some things truly ARE better unknown, as the knowing gains nothing to the child which is learning, except his probable death. Even a hand grenade would appear as a toy to someone whom does not understand what it is, until the pin is pulled and there is no turning back.

Death is not a learning experience, except in maybe the final sense.

Even with discerning adults accidents happen, and in a case where the most experienced of us here knowingly and willingly allow run-away tpus, already a possible red button saying bluntly "Do Not Push", which gets pushed accidentally quite often, why SHOULD I provide a flashing red button marked "Danger, Do Not Even Sneeze"?

Not all the things that have been buried have been from greed, desire to control information, or from maliciousness. I am not trying to be arrogant or "intellectually superior", or any such thing. Just responsible, to you, to others, and to myself.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 24, 2008, 02:10:49 AM
@Loner

Good points.

Some of the nastiest stuff I have seen in my minds eye will not be replicated accidentally. (Too much pulsing current or voltage or fancy non-obvious windings necessary etc to modify the field in particular ways... )

Some of the stuff replicable with what we are dealing I will warn about. You probably know about most or all of it already, just may not have applied to this particular situation. Remember the strengths of the fields we are dealing with when thinking of these things.

Ultrasonics:

Pain generation is but one of many REAL possibilities. The frequency range which are so-called ultra-sonics (above normal hearing frequency of 20 or so khz but still considerable as low frequency) Think of all the uses for ultrasonics in the medical and industrial fields (let alone the militaristic applications), and the dangers should be easily understood.  Cleaning, ultrasound, kidneystone and other calcium deposit removal, material removal or carving in various substances, disintigration of solid materials..........

High Intensity RF Fields:

Induction Smelting, Railgun, X-Ray production (from arcs in vacuum contacting metal), ION formation, Ozone production, Iron content of the human body.......

Above is all mild stuff.

Intense Density High Speed Rotating Magnetic Field:

This is where the stuff that really scares me is located. Dont get me wrong, sheer speculation from my minds eye.

EMP's, Wormholes, Anti-gravity or gravity anomaly formation, Wholesale DNA and other long chain molecule destruction in localized areas, SuperInductance (consider superconductance)..... I could literally go on and on and on and on.

Just speculating about what the field should do with all sorts of unobvious winding possibilities gave me the willies, especially when specially designed to USE the voltage ramps. (IE the "Why does a runaway have to be a runaway?" question, followed with "Just how MUCH energy is available?", along with "How would the coil need to be wound?" )

Now, some of the stuff in this last may well seem ridiculous. I hope so. I really do. I would be glad to be wrong.

I can give a few absolute warnings:

1. Shy away from natural substance resonance frequencies. They are destructive in nature. (Your bones are not much different from any other calcium deposit. Hint, hint Otto, pain is a bad thing in your fingers from field interaction.)

2. Shy away from trying to use extremely high amperage or voltage for pulsing. Any voltage above 1kv or  any pulse amperage above 20 amps is non-realistic for building a TPU to begin with. (SM obviously wasn't doing either. This does away with X-Ray problem, and many of the potentially instantaneously fatal stuff.)

Many of the potentially fatal things will at least be slow, painful, or cumulative, concerning the rest of the mild stuff for the incautious.

Your TPU has a naturally resonant frequency. If you hit it dead on with any real power, you will NOT control it, no matter what you do.

Protective circuitry is a joke, that is unless you can clamp it in under a gigasecond.

Your voltage/amperage/etc.. controls, just how fast do you think they react? Low to mid millisecond range? Your pulses are in the micro to nano-second range. How many ramps (meltdowns) occur before the sensors even know something is even wrong?

Take for instance the sensing device. Say you find one that can react in 25ns! FAST! Cool! Now, it has to activate another power switching device to shut down the system. this may well be another 8-25ns or more off time. Your fastest response time, circuit wise, is then 50ns at best. (most available devices are MUCH slower).

Now, say you are pulsing with a square wave that the total edge length at the top of the wave (the part that matters) is 100ns. Your response has to have half of the waves top to react. If your pulse happens in the last quarter of the wavetop, the event has already happened before the circuitry could react and DO anything.

Basically, try NOT to have a meltdown first, because a deadman switch is relied upon by dead men.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: wattsup on May 24, 2008, 04:06:26 AM
@pauldude000

Thanks for that perspective and the warning. While I was reading this, I made a parallel between such reactions and the mountains and mountains of literature available on the big bang theory. All those volumes to try and explain what happened in the first milli-seconds of the initial event. Alot of s**t can happen in one second.

But then I think of the billions of electronic circuits running at this moment on Earth. All the coils, frequencies, pulses, waves, in billions of types of devices running every second of every day on Earth. Then I ask myself why is it that with all these interactions happening at the same time, all the potential crossing of fields, coils windings, impulses, etc., etc., why don't we hear of an electronic apparatus blowing up more often. I mean if you look at the probabilities, it would be a miracle that none of these have generated a black hole of some sort or a major explosion. But we do not see major events  happen. Granted a cell phone can cook your ear drum or fry your prostate, living near high tension lines is not great and there are other things to careful with in our day to day usage of our modern devices.

Also I feel we all think what is being done hear is unique and one in a billion in the combinations of pulses, fields, etc., but I would guess that where we are is also close to childs play compared to all the experimentation required to develop the first black and white TV. How did they manage to make the first yoke like otto is using. How did they do all the variable testing to come up with a particular design that works. Tubes, how many years was required to make the first tube, the first xray, the first microwave. Also I would be curious if there is anything from Tesla that would specifically warn against certain avenues of development besides standing next to a humongous generator as its output is being connected to the grid, or discharging very high voltage capacitors.

I do agree that people have to be careful that the device they are running is not the primitive equivalent to a magnetron. Some would have to consider doing what I call a "hamburger test", where you would take three patties, two placed left and right of the device on open plates and one placed left or right but with a metal cover over it. Run the device but leave the room for x minutes, then go back and see if the open plate burgers are starting to cook compared to the one that is covered. I'm just joking with that but it does give you some reason to worry. lol

I remember I tested ottos ECD with 100,000 volts, but minimal amps and within a minute my stomach started to have cramps that I never had. So I stopped it right there and never put 100kv on it again.

I would recommend to you guys to find a broken microwave oven and use the cooking chamber to run the devices. Sounds crazy but until you know its safe, let's not be sorry. Happy cooking.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on May 24, 2008, 05:48:46 AM
Guess so paul.  Just keep the curriculum on track.  It's in my signature sir.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on May 24, 2008, 05:52:57 AM
mental fatigue

nuked cerebellum
whose gonna' tell 'em?
going along
their merrily way
dendrites are screaming
electrons wheeling
a glimpse of light
amongst the fray
ignore the obvious
shun the quaint
think you know better?
oh thou shalt faint
particles whisper
the skin grows crisper
mental floss
for the brain
pump up the current
rise up the serpent
soon will vanish
all the pain
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on May 24, 2008, 12:54:11 PM
@poynt

:)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 26, 2008, 07:15:17 AM
@all

I have had an interesting weekend, to say the least.........

Driving home from my brother's house today after spending the weekend with him, I heard my wife say "look at that!". Behind and on the passenger side of the vehicle, less than a quarter mile away, a decent sized wall of dust was whipping up. (In the middle of a bad thunderstorm, by the way.) This concerned me quite a bit.

However, watching the quarter mile wide wall of dust directly in front of the vehicle try to spin up MORE than concerned me. This situation sucked, to say the least. I thought we were toast. However, it failed to spin up into a full tornado, or we would have been.

The old saw about brown in back and yellow in front almost applied.

Yahweh was watching out for me today.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: PLUTOSBONE on May 26, 2008, 02:05:48 PM
just watching the twisters on the news now. i am in australia you guys have really copped it this year.
Yahweh , Jehovah
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 27, 2008, 02:17:31 AM
@all

This is a good experiment I posted for a different thread, then thought I should share here as well.

Anyone whom thinks electromagnetism does not form harmonics and beat frequencies, has never researched the subject personally. In my TPU (See "Steven Mark's" Thread) research, using toroidal coils, both air and ferrite cored at high frequency, I can state absolutely that two frequencies of generated magnetic wave mix and affect each other. I can equally state other things as well:

1. True harmonic frequencies are summing or mutually amplifying of each other.
2. Beats are definitely formed in the same device.
3. Truly resonant frequencies also create a "spectrum" of related frequency generation in the same device.

These things can be proven to yourself, EASILY, with nothing more than two frequency generators (5MHZ or more preferable. I use an old B&K 3025, and a digital 2MHZ new POJ), an oscilloscope capable preferably of 100Mhz resolution, and a simply wound coil.

For those wanting to I will post the necessary requirements for the coil.

Materials list:

A. 50ft of 4 wire solid strand phone cable (I use round phone cable, but flat should work equally fine)
B. 1 roll of electrical tape
C. 1 white perm marker OR white nail polish
D. 1 set wire strippers....

(that is all... this is a sensitive air core coil... :D )

1. On a form approx 6" in diameter (piece of pvc pipe, bottom of a sauce pan, literally whatever.. diameter will affect output resonant frequency, but should be within the ability of a good 5MHZ Function Generator to see effects) wind four turns of wire CW.

2. Cut the ends to leave six inch leads.

3. Carefully remove from form, and tightly bind this coil together with tape. (this is your horizontal coil for the unit)

4. Strip four inches of outer sheath, then strip 1/2" from each of the exposed wires.

5. Now, take about 30 feet of the phone cord, and strip the outer sheath from the wires.

6. Take each of the four wires, and wind loosly into a coil around your hand.
You should have one coil of each red, black, green, and yellow insulated wires.

7. Mark four even quadrants on the taped horizontal coil, with the first mark between the horizontal coils 6" output cables.

8. Tightly wind around the horizontal coil 50 turns using each color wire CW leaving 6" leads. 1 color per marked out quadrant and centered in each quadrant.

9. To simplify the winding of each colored coil, bind down the colored wire with tape, tightly wind, then secure the end of the wind with tape.

10. Strip the leads of the colored coils 1/2" At this point, the coil winding is complete.

Now, for the connections.

11.  Holding the coil setup in your left hand, consider the left hand horizontal coils 4 wire cable lead as the ground. The right hand 4 wire cable lead consider as the positive.

With the horizontal coil, we have four separate individual coils wound in exact parallel. These can be connected in series to attain high enough output voltage for your O-scopes to read easily on 1 to 5v/div range. The output is low amperage, so do not be too concerned, though you may need a 10x probe at resonance. A switchable 1x and 10x probe is nice here. Switch to 10x probe if the trace starts approaching  the top of the screen at 5v/div. Remember to multiply voltage x 10.

12. Take the ground yellow wire, and hook it (twist or solder) to the green positive.
13. Take the green negative and hook it to the red positive.
14. Take the red negative, and hook it to the black positive.

At this point, the horizontal coil should only have two wires unconnected. Black on the ground side, and yellow on the positive side. These are your scope connection points.

Now, concerning the four vertical coils hookups. Multiple effects can be viewed using either one or two input frequencies, and these four 1 wire coils are the input coils, or the "primary" concerning the whole coil. This is NOT directly electrically connected in any manner to the horizontal coil, just inductively. (For those saying it cannot be, since the coils are oriented 90 degrees out ....build it.... you will learn something. :D )

For the primaries connections:

ONE frequency operation:

4 in series

15. Hook all four primary coils in series. (Ending wire of one wind, to input wire of next clockwise around the coil)
16. You should have two of the  leads, the start winding of the first coil, and the ending wire of the last coil unconnected. These are your frequency inputs which you hook to the function generator.

2 in series

17. Choose two opposing coils (on opposite sides of the horizontal coil).
18. Hook the output lead of the first, to the input lead of the second.
20. Leave the other two coils unconnected.

2 Frequency Operation

2 coil - independent

21. Choose two opposing coils.
22. Hook the 1st Function Generator to the first coil, with the output (red) lead of the Function Generator connected to the start of the winding, and the ground (black) lead to the end winding.
23. Repeat 22 with second Function Generator on opposing second coil.

4 coil - 2 in series

24. Choose two opposing coils.
25. Hook the end wind of the first coil, to the start wind of the second opposing coil.
26. The starting wind of the first, is the red lead connection to your first function generator, and the ending wind of the second opposing coil is the ground for the F.G..
27. Repeat for the second set of opposing coils, hooking up the second function generator to this set in the same manner as stated in the previous step.

HOW TO perform the experiments.

3. Progress to two signal only after performing one signal testing.
4. Turn on your O-scope, change v/div to lowest setting, and time/div to .5 microsecond. (You will notice you are already getting a voltage reading showing a trace. :) )
5. Change V/div setting until the signal only occupies two divisions.
6. Turn on your F.G. at lowest voltage, lowest frequency range, lowest frequency setting, square wave.
7. You will notice a change in the trace, but not much, or the trace will blank out.
8. Adjust voltage up on the F.G. to max, adjusting also the v/div on the O-scope keeping the signal within the two div on the scopes scale.
9. Cycle through the frequencies in every range on the F.G. noting the effects of frequency input on the output.
10. In every range, when amplification occurs, cycle back and forth through the time/div settings on the scope.

You have now seen:

Harmonic frequency generation. (the "flames" which look like a wide trace of various types. )
Beats (Square wave superimposition upon the overall sine output at MUCH lower frequency)
True Resonance, or Self amplification due to harmonic voltage summing (when the voltage requires that you change v/div to view the entire wave.)

Do the same 10 steps, with two generators......

This experiment, after both single and multiple frequencies are tested, removes excuses of all kinds, and will amaze and shock the heck out of anyone whom has not done it yet.

This should be a good learning tool for all doing magnetic wave interaction research of any kind.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: nothere2win on May 27, 2008, 02:38:59 AM
Finally, someone who makes sense! Naw, just kidding. Great write up though, and very easy to follow. I can't wait to get started! Thank you very much paul, you are doing great things!
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: BEP on May 27, 2008, 04:31:41 AM
@Paul

I enjoyed your write-up. You are correct. Those who think they know what will happen should try it anyway.

Under your '4 coil 2 in series' section: Have you tried with each set opposing it's partner coil? Also set the DC bias of your FG so the signal appears to the coils as an alternating signal with this connection. What you should see is a setup where the pair are always against each other and no matter what polarity they are on the same polarity is induced in the horizontal coil.
Now do two sets with each set on a different FG and you open many other possibilities.

If you get that far I would suggest banging the second set either 90 leading or lagging the other set. For those not getting the 'making it look like AC' part I suggest you follow Paul's instruction first.

Edit>>>
When I said 90 lagging or leading I mean the angle as referenced to the circumference of the horizontal coil - not as referenced to the other wave. I hope that makes sense.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 27, 2008, 07:30:38 AM
@BEP

1. No, I have not tried that yet, as I have been working towards a consistent and high speed rotating magnetic field. (But will tonight.)

2. Yes, it does make sense. (What you posted)

:)

For two coil, two signal opposing

End wrap of coils connected to end wrap of opposing coils, using both starting wraps as F.G. connections.

The same effect should also be possible with one signal. Lets see.

1. End wrap first coil to end wrap opposing (third) coil
2. Start wrap third coil to start wrap second coil
3. End wrap second coil to end wrap fourth coil
4. Start wrap first coil to red F.G. Lead
5. Start wrap fourth coil to black F.G. Lead

Have to try both now.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 27, 2008, 11:40:24 PM
@BEP

I have tried the experiment, and have noticed that it forces the TPU to "ring", in that I have seen oscillation trains following each other. At the proper frequency, the trains overlap to various degrees, without necessarily the first train having died out first which can cause an interesting very high frequency effect..

It is like the magnetic field propagates towards the next field, then slams into it, and this gives an initial high voltage spike. The field then acts like it rebounds and returns over and over, losing strength until it fades away. Highest measurable voltage though using this is only 70V or so, compared to 240V on the same coil using the other techniques. (This using what I now call my 6" multicolored "candy" TPU which I modeled the previous post after.)

I havent tried it with "The Claw" yet. (MY big 12" TPU, so named for the 10-2/w ground house wiring used for the collector.. six "claws" sticking out of the coil.. :D )

I might try it with all of the other TPU's... 2 that are only approx 2" across, the "Wagonwheel", and "Cutie", my 4" "Iron Sides POJ"... Might even be a good idea to thest my ferrite yoke core "Old Pokey POJ"......

Man, I can say that iron sucks in any form as a core. Steel, mild iron, AND ferrite, sucking worst in that particular order. Certain frequencies are amplified SLIGHTLY. (compared to air, copper, aluminum, or other non or para-magnetic substances) It tries hard to KILL true resonance in a coil. I am starting to think of iron as a naturally occurring "True Resonance Choke"..... Maybe it acts differently with high power input... I don't know. It is worthless at this point in my book for finesse purposes.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on May 27, 2008, 11:49:08 PM
@Paul - Again we parallel. I'm about ready to dismantle my current build utilizing galvanized wire, formed into 4 sections like Tesla 381970. The only real use I've found for any steel wire I've tried so far is hanging pictures.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: gn0stik on May 28, 2008, 12:34:20 AM
All good talk, I have been watching this for a while now. The main problem that I have with it is that it depends on a virtual stator in the form of a rotating magnetic field. The problem with this is, there's no real replacement for an actual rotating magnet, or coil arrangement. The magnetic field in a Tesla motor design does not actually rotate so much as the poles move around the device as the coils are pulsed. In other words, the magnetic field does not rotate any more than individual frames played rapidly in sequence actually make bugs bunny eat carrots.. Therefore there is no cutting of any output coil placed in this field, all you will get is the significantly lower output of the fields expanding and contracting as they are pulsed sequentially. It may be obvious, but I do not believe that the TPU works on induction at all.

Having said all of this, with the right variables, you can still get very interesting results with this setup. I love the use of a crossover. It's elegant and simple, and plays to Steven's character, and pool of knowledge.

Regards
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 28, 2008, 02:58:35 AM
The main problem that I have with it is that it depends on a virtual stator in the form of a rotating magnetic field. The problem with this is, there's no real replacement for an actual rotating magnet, or coil arrangement. The magnetic field in a Tesla motor design does not actually rotate so much as the poles move around the device as the coils are pulsed. In other words, the magnetic field does not rotate any more than individual frames played rapidly in sequence actually make bugs bunny eat carrots.. Therefore there is no cutting of any output coil placed in this field, all you will get is the significantly lower output of the fields expanding and contracting as they are pulsed sequentially. It may be obvious, but I do not believe that the TPU works on induction at all.

Magnetic Induction by definition is an induced EMF (electricity) in a closed circuit due to change of a magnetic flux in the circuit.

Since these units HAVE to be either pulsed with electricity in some manner, or started with a moving magnet, they by definition are run by magnetic induction. To have induction, a magnetic field does not have to "cut" a wire". Skin effect, faraday's disk example, and various other principles show that ANY interaction between a changing or motional magnetic field and a conductor produces EMF.

Faraday's disk example demonstrates that the field is continually "cutting through" an infinitely thick conductor, as far as the stationary magnetic field is concerned.

Now, in a theoretically "perfect" rotating field, you would see a moving "tube" shaped magnetic field, sliding around the circumference of the TPU. Now, we are told that this is impossible, as the field cannot exist without the applied electric field, which is true. They indeed do exist hand in hand.  However, both photons and radio transmissions demonstrate that this Mag field/EMF field CAN separate from the inductor that produced it, and travel away from said conductor seemingly existing by itself.

The question is, will the resistance of such a field to passing through a conductor, allow for a conductor to guide its path of travel? (The principle of the path of least resistance.)

If so, then a self existant rotating field can be made.

Now, consider a virtual rotating field effect. I state virtual, as all that matters is what the collector "Sees". Your "frame by frame" analogy wouldn't matter in this case, as the collector neither "knows about" nor "cares" whether the field is an independent field rotating or three or four fields simulating the same thing. Three or four properly phased coils pulsed in proper sequence do just this.

The first signal fires field No1. Second coil fires just BEFORE field No1 starts starts to collapses, joining the two aligned fields, just like two permanent bar magnets held with N of mag1 facing S of mag2. This prevents or at least minimizes "field orientation flipping" upon collapse of field No1. (it would at worst be a very weak field at the point of field reversal due to the strength of the following field at full power.) Field No2 then is at full peak, as the third coil fires, and so on around the coil.

You then have a perfectly simulated rotational field of the same type, but using stationary fields. The "collectors" would see nothing but a rotating field either way. It does not matter really which is truly happening.

The collectors in a tpu are not much different in consideration as the disk in Faraday's example.

At least, this is the current state of my understanding. It may change as my work progresses.

If you have a theory for your understanding of the operation of the device, I would love to hear it. All input is good stuff to me, and I am proposing but ONE possibly valid explanation of the device.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: BEP on May 28, 2008, 05:21:39 AM
In my opinion gn0stik is correct. Rotation from pulsed sectional coils will not give us the rotation we need. It would be fine for a physical rotor. This statement is true when only considering rotation within the torus.

My suggestion was intended to show how you could produce a DC potential on the horizontal coils. Time the ringing so the new pulse and the ringing aid each other. This means tuning more by pulse width than PRF. The rise and fall should aid the rise and fall of the ringing.
As far as cutting the conductor, Paul, your description fits exactly what I find. In addition to that imagine what would happen if every single turn had an opposing counterpart(zip cord/lamp cord?)
Now, the rotation that this experiment should provide (not pulsed stator sections as in a motor) is the same used in RF technology now. Two crossed dipoles fed by different sources (or a matching network to shift the magnetic to one and the electric to the other) will provide a helically polarized signal. Not in the center of the array but in the far-field.
If you could get that far-field rotation up-close - say the distance between the top collector and the middle - and do the same from below. Wouldn't that arrangement apply a true rotational field to the middle collector?

As far as useful rotation goes that probably comes after obtaining a DC potential on the horizontal winding. I have not tried the reverse - injecting signal into the 'collector' instead of the 'control'.

I've had a little luck with the DC production part. Until I can get some more bench time my suggestions need to stop.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: wattsup on May 28, 2008, 01:34:33 PM
@pauldude000

Good write up. Thanks.

Here's something I had shown a good while back. I think it depicts what you have discussed.
Virtual Alternator Rotor (VAR)
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2944.msg43055.html#msg43055
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: PLUTOSBONE on May 28, 2008, 02:53:30 PM
nice work everyone
I have found an article about energy sucking Radio antennas written in 99.
Talks about transmitting in order to recieve and how the near field of an antenna acts as circuitary rather than RF. In the nearfield it is possible to change the voltage without changing the current and vice versa. It also states that the cancellation of the energy is actually an absorbtion of the energy. at low frequencies using a rotating magnet or capacitor plates will allow power  to be recieved rather than just signals. EM change character in the near field of a coil or a capacitor. A small resonator can produce an extensive and intensive AC field of its own and act as a EM funnel. What is needed is a high Q resonant tunned antenna. Or an am tuned resonant loop antenna.
It goes on to other stuff but i thought that the ideas could apply to the TPU.
Anyway If you want to look at it google energy sucking radio antennas or try
http://amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html
I found most of the first bit and bits of the last bit the most usefull.
A quick question. Has anybody played around with somehow letting the frequency find its own resonance. And would it make sense that to couple to the M field of the earth you would need to get a voltage capable of producing the transmitting speed of the RF. Say speed of sound.
say the first frequency floats and is only used to couple to the Earths ever changing M field and then the second comes along just faster than the speed of the EM field and compresses the wave from the air into a kick in the steel which then takes off at the speed of sound in steel. Now we have a velocity change with enertia capable of running back against the M field of the earth to produce a larger em field and recieve a larger amount the next lap.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 28, 2008, 06:57:38 PM
@wattsup

If you still have that alternator stator, and want to experiment, learn from the originator!

http://www.keelynet.com/tesla/00382280.pdf (http://www.keelynet.com/tesla/00382280.pdf) (This is the patent loner and I reference quite frequently.)

What you need is figure 1, concerning how to wind and connect the "primary" coils for rotation of field. Figure 2 shows the lower turn secondary useage, in concert with the primary underneath.

What I find interesting, is this IS a MEG, and a TYPE of TPU (The original TPU that is.).

It is a "virtual" alternator already, so a similar primary should be able to be wound OVER your stator.

I hope this is usefull for you.

@all

As a side note:

For anyone looking for a good Tesla Patents source, this site has all of the US, British, and Canadian patents in .pdf file format (nice.)

http://www.keelynet.com/tesla/ (http://www.keelynet.com/tesla/)

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: gn0stik on May 28, 2008, 09:27:03 PM
Magnetic Induction by definition is an induced EMF (electricity) in a closed circuit due to change of a magnetic flux in the circuit.

Since these units HAVE to be either pulsed with electricity in some manner, or started with a moving magnet, they by definition are run by magnetic induction. To have induction, a magnetic field does not have to "cut" a wire". Skin effect, faraday's disk example, and various other principles show that ANY interaction between a changing or motional magnetic field and a conductor produces EMF.

Faraday's disk example demonstrates that the field is continually "cutting through" an infinitely thick conductor, as far as the stationary magnetic field is concerned.

Now, in a theoretically "perfect" rotating field, you would see a moving "tube" shaped magnetic field, sliding around the circumference of the TPU. Now, we are told that this is impossible, as the field cannot exist without the applied electric field, which is true. They indeed do exist hand in hand.  However, both photons and radio transmissions demonstrate that this Mag field/EMF field CAN separate from the inductor that produced it, and travel away from said conductor seemingly existing by itself.

The question is, will the resistance of such a field to passing through a conductor, allow for a conductor to guide its path of travel? (The principle of the path of least resistance.)

If so, then a self existant rotating field can be made.

Now, consider a virtual rotating field effect. I state virtual, as all that matters is what the collector "Sees". Your "frame by frame" analogy wouldn't matter in this case, as the collector neither "knows about" nor "cares" whether the field is an independent field rotating or three or four fields simulating the same thing. Three or four properly phased coils pulsed in proper sequence do just this.

The first signal fires field No1. Second coil fires just BEFORE field No1 starts starts to collapses, joining the two aligned fields, just like two permanent bar magnets held with N of mag1 facing S of mag2. This prevents or at least minimizes "field orientation flipping" upon collapse of field No1. (it would at worst be a very weak field at the point of field reversal due to the strength of the following field at full power.) Field No2 then is at full peak, as the third coil fires, and so on around the coil.

You then have a perfectly simulated rotational field of the same type, but using stationary fields. The "collectors" would see nothing but a rotating field either way. It does not matter really which is truly happening.

The collectors in a tpu are not much different in consideration as the disk in Faraday's example.

At least, this is the current state of my understanding. It may change as my work progresses.

If you have a theory for your understanding of the operation of the device, I would love to hear it. All input is good stuff to me, and I am proposing but ONE possibly valid explanation of the device.

Paul Andrulis

I understand why you feel that induction is the operating principle behind the tpu. I just don't see how it can be. If overunity could be had by simple induction, I believe it would be widespread by now. Everyone and their brother who has had the idea of hooking a motor up to an alternator to power itself would have figured it out independently. It's just too lossy. Hysteresis, Eddy Currents, resistance losses etc. No load, and loaded losses abound. I think we have to look deeper into the SM's tesla references to find out what's really driving this thing. Mr. Mark spoke about Tesla's experiments with HVDC and spark gaps, and the stinging sensations, and cool breezes, etc. How this is tunable to achieve various results. This, I believe, is the key. If the tpu were just a virtual rotor system, there is no reason it shouldn't work when flipped over. It may be part of the operation of the device, but it cannot be a complete explanation. I believe the TPU is a marriage of tesla technologies.

"The true voyage of discovery consists not of seeking new landscapes, but having new eyes."

*Proust

Please don't take any of this the wrong way.

Regards, Rich
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 28, 2008, 10:37:50 PM
@gn0stik

That's completely alright Rich. I shared, and to some extent still share a little, of your confusion, though day by day, and experiment by experiment clears up the confusion slowly but surely.

When people are being reasonable as you are, I have no problem with negative comments or constructive criticism. It is both healthy and necessary. That is why I explain my understanding in such cases, so that the one performing logic checking has an in depth understanding of my viewpoint, and can possibly point out to me erroneous thinking.

It doesn't guarantee absolute agreement or disagreement, but is a very good means of hammering out ideas. I like to call it logical positive feedback.

I would be happy to converse with you more on my logical reasons for inductance if you wish.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 29, 2008, 10:17:09 AM
@all

Here is a thought for everyone concerning induction.

If a magnetic field has to "cut" through wire, then there is a very real mechanical drag. Skin or surface induction still has drag, but much much less. Now, when a field cuts a wire, an opposing field is created in the wire cut, which adds more drag. (by drag I mean resistance to motion)

This is why using a generator to power a motor which turns a generator does not work. This "drag" or resistance to motion, uses a portion of the applied energy to overcome, therefore effectively preventing O.U. You then consider the amount of energy required to spin the masses of BOTH the generator AND the motor, and it gets worse. All energy in the system has to be accounted for, to check for OverUnity output. Everything from friction to mass to field resistance has to be accounted for.

Gn0stic knows what he is talking about.

However, consider a massless virtual rotor, which does not rely upon a heavy high mass mechanical/electrical hybrid magnet, and there is NO OPPOSING MAGNETIC FIELD SINCE THE COILS ACTED UPON ARE 90 DEGREES OUT OF PHASE MAGNETICALLY!!!! (bet you didnt consider that now did you... :D )

Say the only energy required of the system is some heat losses of various types, minor skin effect field drag, and field energy creation itself?

All of the mechanical energy required of the previously mentioned Motor/generator system is not present here. No physical motor to spin, no physical rotor to spin. No frictional losses either bearing heat or frictional resistance to motion, no mass resistance.... Just a cute virtual magnetic field spinning round and round by its practically frictionless little self.

However, to be fair, the fields I have generated are fairly weak as fields go. Therefore generating little current.

What is truly amazing, is the simple fact that ANY alternator with a steady rotor field strength, produces MORE POWER if it is spun faster. The awesome thing about any virtual magnetic rotational field is the speed at which it can spin................... The faster it spins, the more power from the same applied field.

Consider Faraday's disk. Even with a fairly weak magnet, what is the voltage and current producible if the circumference of the disk is moving at Mach 1 in relation to the center-point of the shaft?  ;D

Haven't you ever wondered why the collector HAS to be inside the CC's to get the best effect, and why coils to the inner side produce more voltage, than coils to the outside of the field? (Faster rotational speed per circumference length is one very possible explanation.)

The TPU isn't a tranformer gentlemen, it is a truly WIERD alternator. Tesla even stated as much, in that he mentioned quite blandly that the pictures demonstrated were not the only manner in which the coil could be wound for similar effect.

I propose that he already HAD this type of TPU in mind, not as a frequency to voltage/amperage convertor as demonstrated by the patent (which it was), but as a portable power producer which he could claim he discovered quite by accident which was already patented for a different purpose so therefore already covered as a natural extension of a previously patented device.

Tesla was a sneaky sucker anyway......

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Kls on May 29, 2008, 10:56:20 AM
@ Paul

About moving a field or field poles; There is no upper limit to that speed ,not even the speed of light itself and that's so because the field itself is not a particle which have mass, 0 like the photon or greater like any other particles. So in theory one could move a field created by virtual poles (aka a virtual magnet) at a speed much much faster then the speed of light.That would obey all known laws oh physics.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Kls on May 29, 2008, 11:00:52 AM
@ Paul

i forgot something,

there is a drawback with that speed.because of the limit of the EM interactions ,and that is the speed of light, all one could achieve would be something like... hmmm. breaking the sound barrier, or creating a shock wave, something like the Cerenkov effect.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: tishatang on May 29, 2008, 01:56:17 PM
@Paul and All
In the early days of the TPU, I thought  it had to do with heterodyning and mixing of frequencies.
I now believe SM achieved rotation by the Lorentz O forces.  Link here:  (About half way thru the video for the demo):

Torsion field energy comes in from the aether and assumes a vortex shape as in tornadoes.  Turn the TPU over and it will not work because it bucks the natural flow.

I will try to explain proof of principle:  Take your four strand telephone cable and wrap some turns around a 4 or 5 inch form.  Remove and put some tape around to hold shape.   Strip sheath to expose about 6 inches of wire on each end.  Tape one color off as we will only use Three coils.   Take another piece of same cable and strip sheath as Paul described earlier.  Wind your 4 coils around the three strand ring coil at 90 degrees.  Instead of phone cable, This may have to be three stacked individual coils to form the ring?

The middle coil is only an electromagnet to provide the field.  I think SM used a ring of magnets to provide the field like was done in the above demo video.  Energizing the middle coil with a small battery is a quick way to prove the principle.  To use magnets, you would probably need to fashion some circular pieces of thin plastic to hold the magnets in place so you have all N up and S down?

The top and bottom coils have to have self resonance at the same frequency using trimmer capacitors and within the physical size of 4 to 5 inches and within the limits of the AC signal generator.  Make note of this frequency.  The AC goes through  two rectifying diodes, one for the top coil and one for the bottom coil. The other ends are tied together for common ground.

Now for the four  small 90 degree coils.  Two for each remaining ring coil.

One is the control coil driven slightly off self resonance frequency of the ring coils.  Do not match resonance frequency, but detune to prevent runaway!!!!  Does 5khz sound familiar?  These control coils receive AC from a separate generator, going through two diodes to match phase with the other signal generator.  Their opposite ends tied to common ground.

The other coil is the output coil.   The output coils have one their ends tied to common ground.  The other ends will be the output.  This will give us DC as the field rotates in one direction and a small 5khz ripple on top.  You guys will have to figure the electronic control circuit.  I am just giving what came into my mind's eye last night.

Waving a magnet might get the tuned resonant coils to start ringing a little, the almost in sync control coils will start the field rotating due to the Lorentz O force.  It should start slowly at first because of the weak fields.  But, because we are moving the way the natural torsion fields want to move, it should speed up?

This looks like the TPU physically and it should put out the same signals?  I think the early small TPU only used half the AC wave as in the above demo video.  The later TPUs used both halves, hence the need for two magnets to start.

Suggestions:
Try placing magnets under your existing coils and setups to see if you get rotation?
Maybe this principal could be used to create the virtual rotating field for the fellow with the alternator stator.

Hope this helps.  Good luck everyone.
Tishatang

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: kron on May 29, 2008, 05:25:29 PM
@ Paul

About moving a field or field poles; There is no upper limit to that speed ,not even the speed of light itself and that's so because the field itself is not a particle which have mass, 0 like the photon or greater like any other particles. So in theory one could move a field created by virtual poles (aka a virtual magnet) at a speed much much faster then the speed of light.That would obey all known laws oh physics.

If so, no speed limit, a setup like Tesla's 382282, seeded with a certain freq. would have the poles moving across the circumference at the speed of light which means the coils on the outside of the setup would not be able to "see" the virtual magnets moving(they are moving at the speed of light right?so there is no time for em interactions) but it becomes even funnier if they can move at a speed higher then c(at even higher seeding freq.).In this case according to the relativity the secondary coils would "see" the virtual magnets actually moving backwards but that would be great ,that's a OU generator that would destroy itself, because bemf would work not against the virtual magnets but actually for them.Wow.That's really weird.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: gn0stik on May 29, 2008, 06:02:09 PM
@Paul and All
In the early days of the TPU, I thought  it had to do with heterodyning and mixing of frequencies.
I now believe SM achieved rotation by the Lorentz O forces.  Link here:  (About half way thru the video for the demo):

Torsion field energy comes in from the aether and assumes a vortex shape as in tornadoes.  Turn the TPU over and it will not work because it bucks the natural flow.

ding ding ding ding ding... This was a ringer of a post, in my opinion. However, You might want to start your own thread tish, as it would derail Paul's.

Note Stan said DC Pulses. This is also a very important part of what I was saying in my previous posts. The device Stan was talking about could be engineered to output power, or do other things as well depending on the pulse width, and center frequency. It's also important to note that too strong a magnetic field could kill the effect, we want high potential, low current, and a short current duration. Sharp rise time, sharp trailing time. NO RINGING. We're teasing the ether, to extract and create torsion fields. Ferromagnetic cores are bad to varying degrees, however it can be used to shunt the effect, or make it safer. High permeability, and resistant to saturation is what you would want. You would need a few devices that automatically switched back and forth with this config, to avoid saturation. I find it fascinating that the device Stan was discussing used a mu-metal core, which is used to shield against magnetism. I wonder what the precise engineering decisions behind this were. However, I would guess it's for stability, and safety, while avoiding any kind of saturation issues..
Genius really.

If we discuss this any further it should be in your own thread however. I remember when this video was first posted years ago. By Tao, I believe. Funny how things come back around. When I first watched this, my thinking on the operation of the TPU was too linear, and I missed the significance, save for a few tidbits.

Regards,
Rich.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 29, 2008, 09:19:56 PM
@Gn0stik

I don't mind. If the technique works, I am all for it. If it generates a rotating field, then it is worth trying. There is always more than one technique to skin any deer.

I have also been considering the effects of the rotating field on neighboring magnetic fields, from perm magnets, to the earths field itself. I have also been considering its interaction and effects with prevalent electric fields. If Kls or Tishatang want to post a theory, observations, possibilities, or thoughts, it is good stuff in my book.

In other words, I don't care how we get there, so long as we get there.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on May 29, 2008, 09:28:08 PM
@Paul, gn0stik, tish

Check out this link http://lucianarchy.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=futuretalk&action=print&thread=1854 (http://lucianarchy.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=futuretalk&action=print&thread=1854). I spent about two hours this morning reviewing some of Stan Deyo's stuff, and all sorts of things clicked for me. It's got me thinking about the TPU in a whole new way.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: kron on May 30, 2008, 12:18:48 AM
Hello all,
How things can change...I was a lurker on this forum for soo long and now I'm posting for the second time today. lol.Anyway.
I had to reread all the TPU related posts all day long and one min ago I've just finished one pdf titled "Steven_Mark_TPU_compilation.pdf".Some ppl here think that all that could be just BS but please reread that paper and then just think again.He stated that he allready gave Lindsay all clues he needed to replicate the device and know what ?I really think he did.All his clues about how the device work would make sense if and only if we move a virtual magnet(or more) at the speed of light and/or even faster.Don't think right now about the configurations of his tpu's ,I'm certain they were genuine, there are many ways to achieve a result once one understand the principle behind.And that would be simply the relativity.No magic ,no BS, just that.
There is much more to say but my eyes are stinging so i have to take a break.

Kron
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: replicator on May 30, 2008, 12:20:48 AM
Yes!!! I read this forums every day, but I think you are on the right way. I am not a clever guy, but I just feel it. Why? Just here is a yet another working theory...
---
1.) From Floyd Sparky Sweet(VTA), 1988, http://jnaudin.free.fr/vta/index.htm
"... Since any capacitor behaves similarly to a transmission line it is no more necessary to postulate a
displacement current for the capacitor than it is necessary to do so for a transmission line. The
excision of ``displacement current'' from electromagnetic theory has been based on arguments
which are independent of the classic dispute over whether the electric current causes the
electromagnetic field, or vice versa. ..." This statement should be very important. Why? There are capacitors everywhere, like between wingdings of a coil, circuits, TPU wounding, etc... We should start to thinking about capacitors as transmission lines.

2.) Rotating magnetic field maybe not a rotating magnetic field. It would be a electric wave via a transmission line. Just imagine a coaxial cable loop, with an external magnetic inductor which induces a "kick" in one of the part of that loop. The induced signal start to travel near the speed of light to the both of direction in the coaxial cable's internal dielectric. We should solve the problem of direction of trailling "kick" then the result will be a rotating field inside the cable with the speed of light. Standing waves aren't rotating fields, just think what is standing wave, it a reflection from the endpoint of a transmission line.

3.) By today laws we cannot make rotating magnetic field more than a speed of light. Just count and use axioms of aether's two parameters: (http://jnaudin.free.fr/vta/p2.gif). "... The essence of space is time, not distance, and only one propagation  velocity is possible through a segment of space. Thus, time through a segment is  intimately related to the length of the segment..."

I guess that the TPU is an open system, a big, screwed moebius-like loop, no two different plates.
When we start to make 2-3-4 different coils, around it, drive with several amperes, mixture of different frequencies and a lot of wattage we shoot to a rabbit with a large gun. (sorry otto I respect your work but I should say that).
The mixture of frequencies makes a big chaos in the loop. Sometimes these are amplifies each other, sometimes make weaker, and the harmonics of square waves... oh men!
We cannot see the tree by the forest. No outside chaotic, rotating magnetic fields necessary, but a precisely driven, travelling pulse inside the loop.... (I on purpose don't want to know where the energy comes from..)

The question is what is to be hard to control?
Of course, an virtual knife which enables the trailing of the "kick" only one direction in the loop. To make it not so easy. As SM said. The other hard task to put energy into the loop and couple out for your 100W bulb without "killing" the effect, nevertheless keep the balance between each other...
If my theory right, It explain a lot of things like: enough very, very small amount of energy to start the process that will be self-exciting without energy extraction and it is easily runaway, heat, kill, etc...

sorry for that long message.
replicator
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: tishatang on May 30, 2008, 10:44:32 AM
@Paul
I posted here because this thread seemed the closest to my current line of thought.  I am currently in China and have limited internet access.  I don't wish to start another thread.  Thanks for accepting me here.

@buzz-ard
For the reasons stated above, I can't access the link you gave, sorry.

If I were on my home turf, this is what I would do:
Get one of my large ceramic circular magnets, about 3 inch diameter with a hole in the center.  They are called bucking magnets.  Available at some parts houses that sell speakers.  Or, tear apart an old broken large speaker for the magnet.
I would wind a flat coil to fit on top of the magnet.  I would try and get this coil to self resonate at 174.9 Khz.
This is the supposed natural resonance of  ferro-magnetism.  SM stated that the dimensions of the coil were important.  Is this why?

See here:
http://rexresearch.com/mra/1mra.htm
Partial quote:

"Message 10094 (12/21/94 07:39)
To: Norman Wootan
Subject: (R) MRA

Another interesting thing that we verified tonight was that the natural ferro-magnetic frequency is approximately 174.9 KHz. This is a shot in the dark from my failing memory: I remember reading in my collection of one device that worked at 14.7 KHz.  I don't remember then name of it for sure, but it was the one made with the large basket weave coils (Hendershot maybe?), you've probably seen the thing it is one of the common lead gen devices in this field.174.9 KHz / 12 = 14.575 KHz. 14575 / 1944 = 7.49 Hz puts it down around the Schuman range. A harmonic interaction with the Earth field? This could account for the time of day effects.  Do you note significant changes at Sun Set and Sun Rise? Maybe this is significant, maybe it is not? "
************
The magnet will reinforce the coil to resonate at 174.9 Khz.  Sort of act like a crystal to give a stable frequency.  Only a small input signal at 174.9Khz can produce very high voltage, be careful!
Now we can wind a control coil and an output coil at 90 degrees through the center for experimental purposes.

Note:  We do not have to have a coil at 174.9 Khz to prove rotation.  It is something I think SM did.

Tishatang

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: b0rg13 on May 30, 2008, 11:36:33 AM
Hello all,
How things can change...I was a lurker on this forum for soo long and now I'm posting for the second time today. lol.Anyway.
I had to reread all the TPU related posts all day long and one min ago I've just finished one pdf titled "Steven_Mark_TPU_compilation.pdf".Some ppl here think that all that could be just BS but please reread that paper and then just think again.He stated that he allready gave Lindsay all clues he needed to replicate the device and know what ?I really think he did.All his clues about how the device work would make sense if and only if we move a virtual magnet(or more) at the speed of light and/or even faster.Don't think right now about the configurations of his tpu's ,I'm certain they were genuine, there are many ways to achieve a result once one understand the principle behind.And that would be simply the relativity.No magic ,no BS, just that.
There is much more to say but my eyes are stinging so i have to take a break.

Kron

hmmm so lets see, in a nutshell we just need to make a rotating magnetic field( whats a good simple easy way to do this part) and simply place some wire/a collector of some kind to get power from it ?..like waving a magnet past a wire to light an LED ....?..

ok now some babbling from me,.....a 3 phase motor has a spining magnetic field that drags the rotor around with it? ( im not sure so im asking ), .. if this is the case cant we remove the rotor and add some kind of wire/collector to replace the rotor and draw some power from that and loop a little of it once its up to speed/power out put so it can be shut off at the wall and self run ?...

... yes befor you ask i have no idea what im talking about, im just guessing. shoot me.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 30, 2008, 08:45:07 PM
@Tishatang

..... What can I say! .....

I had never associated this concept before.

This might well be the purpose for the speculated necessary D.C. bias, not to provide a D.C. coupling, but to   change the natural resonant frequency of the unit!!!!! IT WOULD BE EASIER TO ACCOMPLISH USING A PERM MAGNET. (I didn't need that stupid subwoofer anyway. I have got to try this. ;D )

What I have just seen is one magnet, flat toroidal. One flat pancake bifiliar collector on each side,  with a two or four coils quadrantly wrapped around the circumference of the entire thing. Worth testing at least.

For a really strong toroidal disc magnet, look in the drive systems of some med-high end turntables. They often used a motor to drive a belt which drives the magnet, but it was coupled with a small air gap to a steel plate for the drive system. Good idea, as it prevented sudden spin ups, or stops. Good for us, as it was a powerful magnet. (Works GREAT for picking up nails out of your yard too.)

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on May 31, 2008, 01:11:32 AM
@borg13

No, I do not think so.

The rotating field motor has the fields all aimed towards the center, or perpendicular to the toroid core.

It does not produce the same effects, nor do I think it capable of the speed of rotation, though I could be wrong on the speed part.

However, the only way to find out truly is to try. Go for it. ;D

The stator may not work for this reason too, though it has a better chance... Well, thinking about it, usually alternator field windings are generally:
_   _  _
_| |_| |_| |_

wound.

If this is the case, it MAY work, but my question is what are the drag losses according to the opposing fields generated by the wires  in sync with the moving field? Consider that one half of the generated fields approx. would be opposing.

This thought depends upon both speed of rotation, orientation of field, and true resonance.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: tishatang on May 31, 2008, 06:13:14 AM
@Paul

Yes, you got it!!!
It may well be that the flat coils on either side of the magnet could be replaced by a single wound (bifiler?  toroid coil.  I hate the thought of trying to wind a toroid coil around and through a magnet and also trying to get the self resonance at a specific frequency.  I think it would work at a harmonic if you doubled or tripled the base frequency of 174.9 Khz?  This would be less wire to wind.

The idea of the pairing of the resonant 174.9 Khz coil and the permanent magnet could be a thread all by itself.  I got the idea from the Hans Coler device.  See here:
http://www.rexresearch.com/coler/coler2.htm

We have bar magnets arranged in a circular shape (polygram) with wire wound around them.  The magnets bars themselves form capacitor plates and the magnets are moved in and out to change the capacitance of the L C circuit, thus tuning the resonant frequency.  They had some small success at a frequency of 180 Khz.  I think if they could have got it  to 174.9 Khz, it would have put out more power?  When I read about the MRA, I got the idea about the resonance pairing of a coil and magnet at a frequency of 174.9

I think this is the "Kicks" and sustain input part of the TPU.  The Lorentz O force is the rotating field part of the equation.  Both represented by real devices, not just theory.  A resonating coil on top of the magnet will produce a standing waves.  When a rotating field moves through the standing waves, it will generate power.

Of course, we still have to solve the control part of the TPU.  Baby steps all the way!  Please be careful!  I now see how the TV set could have imploded.  This is not for beginners.

Tishatang
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: tishatang on June 01, 2008, 10:08:06 AM
@Paul and All

BARE BONES BASIC TPU  (As I see it)

ROTATION:

In the Stan Deyo "Lorentz O" force demo he used a vertical electrode and a horizontal electrode in salt water tube placed into a magnet.  The electrodes          were at 90 degrees.  He plugged it into half wave rectified AC (pulsing DC).  And . . . Rotation.!!!

So,we make a flat coil, representing the horizontal electrode.  Around it, we wind a coil representing the vertical electrode.  We now have the coils at 90 degrees.  We add a second vertical coil to act as the output.   We place the assembly on top of a magnet.  We plug the vertical and horizontal coils into a half wave rectified AC source.  And??????

We are not doing it here with brute force.  We have to figure out how to do it with relative weak energy.

POWER:
Rotation. OK!  Now what?  In other words, what makes the magic happen to get the power?
Go here:

http://rexresearch.com/smith/smith2.htm

Partial quotes in regards to the caduceus coil:

"November 25, 1955

Dear George [Williamson],

I am glad that the coil arrived OK, but I am sorry that I can tell you very little about it. All I know is how to build it and that it worked. Apparently the hole down the center of the core is necessary for its proper    functioning, as is an adequate power input. It will take a kilowatt comfortably, without heating at all, and we know that it will work on 100 watts, but it won?t work for us on 30 watts. It just gets hot on the lower    power! I don?t know what the lower cutoff power is, nor do I know what the boys topside told me; "Play with it and learn".

And another partial quote:

"Analog Magazine (Letters to the Editor)[ 1971 ? ] ~

...The coil is said to be a single winding of insulated copper wire, about #16 or #18 gauge, wound on a ferrite core of 1" to 1-1/2" diameter, and about 9" long. The coil is caduceus wound, that is, one begins    the winding in the middle of the wire?s length, winding the wire in opposite directions around the core and crossing the wires on the same opposite diameter points each time around.

The coil is said to be an energy sink --- that is, current fed into it just disappears, causing no radiation, even of heat. When operating and placed near a grid dip meter, the coil is said to show a large number    of resonance points across the spectrum from 200 to 2.0 Mc. This coil is further said to have zero impedance. Further, two or more coils cannot be coupled together."

Image here:   http://jnaudin.free.fr/spgen/index.htm

**************************************

This small coil was able to absorb (transfer) 1000 watts of power with almost 100 % efficiency, no heat.   How did that happen?  Somehow,  those relative few number of wires crossing at 90 degrees became transmitters and sent the energy into the big battery in the sky (aether) via scalar waves?

If this 90 degree crossing is some kind of gate.  It should be able to go both directions?  After all, a motor can become a generator.  If relative passive motion becomes a transmitter at this 90 degree gate, then maybe relative high motion starts knocking at the gate to get the energy back from the aether?

So, once we get rotation, the field is running around and around gaining energy and finally the vortex sees the output coil at 90 degrees as a receiver of scalar waves.  We now start to get the power back from the aether.  This is resonance at POINT A.  Things take off at this point and the speed builds and a point is reached that the output coil gets overloaded.  Now the vortex starts to see the 90 degree control coil as a gate and it also becomes a scalar receiver and runaway happens!!!  This is resonance at POINT B.

Love, prosperity and freedom lie between POINT A and POINT B.
May we all get there safely.

Tishatang

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: tishatang on June 02, 2008, 05:57:09 PM
@gn0stik

I can identify with your comment about linear thinking and passing right by information that was really useful.  We all tend to get an idea and only look for things that support that idea, blind to anything else.  It seems things come around at a later time and you realize something was there all along.  It also has to do with your own personal knowledge base growing.  Kind of reminds me of, I think, of a Mark Twain quote.

"When was 18, I couldn't believe how ignorant my father was.  When I was 21, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in three years"

In regards to mu-metal around the coils in the Stan Deyo video.  It could also be to shield from the natural lines of force from the earth's magnetic field.  If you are in a craft traveling at 10,000 mph,  The changing lines of force density might be a  variable making it difficult to control everything?

Speaking of the Deyo Video and speculating about things, did you notice the outer winding on the toroid of the 30 ft craft?  It is half of a caduceus winding!  I think it is a hint that the outer winding is a caduceus wound toroid?  Stan is a bright guy.  I am speculating that because of secrecy oaths, he could not come right out and show that.  So he left a good clue?  If a small straight caduceus coil can emit 1000 watts of scalar waves, what would a big circular caduceus toroid do?

Scalar waves may be the link between electromagnetic energy and gravity?  Like gravity, they can not be shielded.  So, it makes sense to use them in an anti-gravity craft.  What would happen if you wind a caduceus coil into the shape of  a toroid  and a rotating field is going thru it?  If the field rotates with the natural rotation of the torsion field of the aether, you might have a big Uncontrollable TPU (assuming my theory is correct).  But, what will happen if the field is rotated against the natural flow of the torsion energy?  Maybe anti-gravity?

Hey, I think I just gave you a new thread to start?  Caduceus Toroid and Speculations?

I just realized we don't have to wait for development of electric spinning fields.  We can spin a magnet in the middle of the caduceus toroid!  Put a shaft through a magnet, stick it in a cordless variable speed drill and let her fly.  Pun intended.  I think we will have to change the name of the thread to something like "Motor Driven Scalar Generator" or something.  This is for people who like to live on the edge.  Totally uncharted territory, as far as I know?  DO NOT SPIN IN THE DIRECTION OF THE AETHER TORSION FIELD.  In this case, it is risky to go with the flow, so to speak.  We want to spin the magnet opposite the way water forms a whirlpool going down the drain.  Maybe those of you who have Bedini Wheels of magnets can use them here?  The more magnets the higher the pulse rate thru the coil.  Build a good scatter shield to protect from flying magnets, put a load on the coil (light bulb), put it all on a scale, and who knows?   A large current transformer could work as a core to wind around.  You might even leave the regular toroid winding on it for experimental purposes?  Maybe it will collect current to feed back to the drill if the caduceus coil leads don't?  BE CAREFUL if you try this.

Tishatang
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 02, 2008, 07:24:13 PM
@Tish

You started logically, but I really don't know where you are trying to go with this.

Not just this thread, but this whole section is about "Steven Mark's TPU devices". It is an attempt by all here to investigate and reproduce a working TPU device.

If the caduceus winding is of profit in a TPU, then great! If not, then it is a good thing to learn, and may benefit in some other manner through experimentation.

However, I start cocking my head sideways and start questioning when UFO's are brought in as proof of concept.

@all

Concerning the spinning magnets.... I may to have to attempt a graphic to demonstrate the field. I will explain it as best I am able.

Using the "lines of force" analogy: Imagine a bar magnet. The field exits one end, curves around geometrically, and enters the other end.

1. Place this magnet inside a toroid and spin it.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TYPE OF ROTATING FIELD I AM TALKING ABOUT. ;D

2. Now, imagine the same bar magnet with one end chucked into a drill and spinning.

THIS IS NOT IT EITHER. ;D

3. Hold one of your TPU's. Take the same bar magnet, and slide it around the circumference (the outside edge) of the ring, like a train following a track. The same end of the magnet leading all the way around the TPU.

THIS IS THE TYPE OF FIELD I AM SIMULATING.

Some things are hard to describe accurately.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Spider on June 02, 2008, 07:31:00 PM
@Paul,

Do you mean something like this
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=get70

Greetings Rene
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: tishatang on June 03, 2008, 06:44:06 AM
@Paul
I agree this is not part of the TPU.  I said in my post this was speculation about a caduceus toroid.  That is why I suggested  that gnOstik start  a new thread.  It is about anti-gravity.  I assumed he would be interested since he bought up the subject of the Deyo video.   The video is part of a UFO conference.  So, naturally Deyo is talking around that subject.  I understand it is not logical from your point of view.  But this video inspired my current concept of the TPU.  It is logical from my point of view to see what else  is there.  If gnOstik is not interested, maybe someone else could start this topic on another thread?  Or maybe Harti can move my last post to anti-gravity?

@Spider
No, you don't have it right.  But it is no use explaining it here until this topic gets moved to a new place.  I am not in a position start a new thread.  Half the time I have to wait a day or two and hope Overunity is available to me.

Tishatang
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 03, 2008, 08:32:23 AM
@Tishatang

It's OK, I am not intending to be in any manner antagonistic here, I was just making sure the thread stayed on-topic. Any theories which can lead to a TPU are worth exploring.

For instance, I intend to wind a caduseus coil collector, and test its application, since I hadn't thought of it until you mentioned it, towards this particular aspect. I also intend to try the dual bifiliar (two wires wound side by side) pancake coils on either side of a toroidal magnet. Both of these ideas YOU brought to this forum. Magnets and caduseus coils have been mentioned, but never in this aspect or manner of use that I remember.

Concerning the UFO aspect, I am not stating my particular beliefs of any kind, I am merely stating that using pure speculation about any unproven concept as a base for a new concept becomes a shaky foundation towards usefulness or provability. I could say the same about a number of concepts, including "space-time" itself, or even "infinity" for that manner.

Concepts should be weighed first against provable concepts before turning to the unprovable.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: tishatang on June 03, 2008, 10:55:44 AM
@Paul

I did not take you as being antagonistic.  I need somebody like you to keep me on track.  I tend to look at things visually.  I guess it's my artistic nature.  I am not an electronics expert.  So, it's like I am trying to write a complex sentence.  But a some of the words are misspelled and the punctuation is missing yet the general idea is communicated. I need you to make sure all the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed so someone else can read the sentence with complete understanding.  The TPU is real and we will take a shot at writing a working manual for it.

I would like to get clear on your concept of the rotating field.  I am not getting the difference between your example #1 and #3.  It seems to me, both would accomplish the same thing?  If we put a shaft through the middle of the bar magnet and stick the shaft into the chuck of a drill press.  Like an armature, the magnet is rotating in the center of the flat horizontal coils.  Parts of the field in #1 would extend straight out the end of the magnet and sweep past the flat coil as it rotates.  It, would be much weaker of course because the magnet in #3 is closer to the wire.  I think this is a good discussion for everyone, because the next step is rotation of the field.  Just what does this field look like we are trying to get rotating?

By the way, I can not seem to find any info on a caduceus toroid other than its use as an antenna.  So, you have the right idea to try it as a collector.

Tishatang
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 04, 2008, 01:06:22 AM
@Tishatang

Example #1 has its magnetic field perpendicular to the toroid, and rotates through the center.

Example #3 has its magnetic field perfectly in line with the toroid and rotates around the circumference.

I hope that clarifies somewhat.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: tishatang on June 04, 2008, 08:18:27 AM
@Paul
What matters here is how you see things.  It has to work in your mind, because you are the one doing the "hands on" thing.  You have to design the circuits and build it to do want you want it to do.

Many thanks to you for forcing me to take a detailed look at the interaction of the field and coil using the car on the track analogy.  To see what is happening where the rubber meets the road, so to speak.  What was a fuzzy has now become clear and "ding, ding, ding, ding, ding," to quote gnOstik.  At the risk of being termed a whacko,  I am going to make the following claims:

Almost certain, SM used Lorentz O force for rotation.
Almost certain my theory about the 90 degree intersection of two coils  collecting (demodulating) the scalar waves as source of     power in the TPU is correct.
Almost certain my speculation about the caduceus wound toroid is correct and it is the collector.
We are going to make a new and improved version of the TPU that will make SM's version obsolete.

As I see it, SM finally achieved rotation and got some voltage.  Experiments led to more and better versions with better performance.  But no matter what he did, it was always temperamental and always had a heat problem.  He could not solve this problem because he did not know how he got the power.  Nobody in his group evidently knew about scalar waves or the caduceus coil.

After he achieved rotation, The collector, at 90 degrees, would start to open the gate and scalar waves would return some energy from the aether.  But the 90 degree crossing of a horizontal and vertical coil is not the same as the 90 degree crossing of the conductors in a caduceus coil.  A vertical coil and a horizontal coil might only convert 50% of the scalar energy, the rest going in to heat.  Had he used a caduceus wound toroid, he would have converted nearly 100 % of the scalar waves into energy with no heat.  No heat means better control and stability!  The caduceus wound toroid has been a well kept secret for 50 years!

Follow my logic and let us find out if I am a whacko?

First:  Draw two parallel line representing a normal two turn flat coil.  Now instead of a car on a track, we are going to substitute a rolling pin and rubber tubing filled with water for the car and rails.  As you roll the roller pin from right to left you will flatten the tubing, squeezing the water out ahead of the pin, thus creating a current flow to your left.  You will also cause a low pressure zone behind the roller which tend to suck the water along.

Next:  Draw two parallel lines as before, but this time they represent the outer edge of a short straight caduceus coil.  Place an "X" in the middle of the lines representing the crossing of the two conductors of the coil.  The source input leads place on your left of the coil.  In transmitter mode, we pulse the input starting with the top left of the "X".  Place an arrow here showing the current flow to the center of the crossing,  Place another arrow in the same direction on the lower right side after the crossing.  The current flow continues around and comes back to the crossing at the upper right corner of the "X".  Place an arrow here showing the current flowing to the center of the cross.  Place another arrow after the crossing showing direction of flow back to the source.  Now focus on the four arrows.The two on the top are both pointing towards the crossing.  Use your left hand and place your thumb pointing with the arrows towards the crossing.  Your index finger is now pointing in the direction the scalar waves are being transmitted.  This is active transmitter mode!

Now draw the same configuration as above without the arrows:  This time the picture represents a crossing of a caduceus wound toroid.  Instead of source on the left,  our conductor leads are now output.  We are now in passive receiver mode.  Picture the conductors as rubber tubes of water as in the first drawing of the normal two conductor example.  We place the roller pin on the right side and roll it to the left.  The roller pin now represents the rotating field moving to the left.  Place two arrows ahead of the pin both pointing towards the center of the crossing.  Place two arrows after the cross pointing to the output.  The water in our analogy is forced to cross and go directly towards the output.  Now look at the four arrows.  Using your left hand place your thumb in the direction of the two arrows pointing to the crossing point.  Your index finger is now pointing straight down, the direction you want to move the scalar waves forming the Lorentz O "Tornado".  Not only that, but remember, behind the pin is a low pressure zone actually wanting to "suck" the scalar waves in.  We have a scalar wave pump!

The good news is I think we can gently pulse the input and get a controlled startup once critical rotation speed is obtained.  The bad news is how do you control such a powerful beast from runaway?  The answer:  With another powerful beast.

We build another duplicate rotating field in the opposite direction.  Remember SM asked "What happens when you rotate two halves in opposite directions"?  Answer:  It is to control the beast.  Like a large "Tug 'O War" with fifty men on each side pulling against each.  One additional man on either side can slowly move a great force in one direction or the other.  The two opposing fields create the gyroscope effect of the TPU?

To picture two opposing vortexes go here:  Scroll down to item 6.5:

Partial quote from 6.5"
"The next image that we see below comes from the work of Dan Winter, showing the whirlpool to the left, the torus formations in their opposing rotation in the middle and then a diagram from Dr. Walter Russell to the far right that shows how they come together and form a sphere.  (From the image, we can see that Winter makes the simple mistake of not seeing that the two tori are both contained in the same spherical space and are able to swirl inside of each other, since he has visualized them as more akin to two donuts that are sitting on top of each other.)"

********

What happens if you sightly over compensate and have excess counter rotation?  I am going to speculate that the unit will either lose weight or you get "Cold Electricity".  In other words demodulation with positive spin equals electricity as we know it.  Demodulation with negative spin equals cold electricity?

@All
Each of you will have to decide if I am some kind of delusional whacko, or maybe, you just might want to save this post?

Tishatang

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 05, 2008, 10:26:30 AM
@GeniusDudeWhereverYouAre

I need someone to answer a question for me. If an electrical path doesn't exist, current doesn't flow...right?

Then explain to me enough juice to run three leds from collectors not electrically connected to control coils I am pulsing.... with ONLY ONE LEAD from a function generator? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

I looked down, and realized that I had forgotten to hook up the ground lead. It was laying there right on the wooden table, the positive hooked to a experimental two CC tpu I just wound tonight, with one coil in series with the other. The collector was putting out 15v steady as a rock, with enough juice to run three leds at about half brightness.

Can somebody explain this?

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: otto on June 05, 2008, 10:33:31 AM
Hello all,

@Paul

Avramenko plug.

Otto
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Robb on June 05, 2008, 02:08:08 PM
@ Paul

Hello Paul I'm a newbie ??? on this matter, but is there an answer for you in:
at min: +- 31 ?

Greets,  Robb
:)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: duff on June 05, 2008, 05:31:22 PM
@GeniusDudeWhereverYouAre

I need someone to answer a question for me. If an electrical path doesn't exist, current doesn't flow...right?

Then explain to me enough juice to run three leds from collectors not electrically connected to control coils I am pulsing.... with ONLY ONE LEAD from a function generator? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Could it be a common ground between your function generator and the ground lead of the scope probe?

-Duff
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 05, 2008, 07:07:35 PM
@duff

I thought of that, but the collectors to which the scope probe is connected are only inductively connected to the control coils to which the function generator is connected.

The collectors are triple insulated from the controls (Insulated strands with a plastic sheath around all four, with another layer of 50% overlap black electrical tape).

No direct electrical connection of any sort between collectors and controls. (Has to be inductive.)

Without function generator connected, familiar 10mv "flame" (multiple resonations/harmonics in the same circuit at close to the same frequency) of extremely high frequency.

With function generator connected with only the positive lead, it is like the FG ground is connected. Changing frequency on the FG changes output on the TPU. Familiar voltage nodes, harmonics, resonants, subharmonics.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: wattsup on June 05, 2008, 08:40:55 PM
@pauldude000

All that you are saying sounds normal to me. You can get a good 4-12 volts from the function generator, depending on the frequency used with only the one probe on the system. This happens all the time. I do this often on primaries to test secondary reactions with the scope.

You have to be carefull when using function generators and even scope on low voltage systems. Even the scope probe can add voltage to the system. This has also happened to me on occassion where you forget your scope probe, come back and see some voltage accumulated in a dioded capacitor. lol Then you jump to the roof. Then you realize what it was. Downer. lol

Maybe check the voltage directly from the FG.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 05, 2008, 11:25:44 PM
@Wattsup

I am sort of confused by your post.

This is a purely inductive circuit. No capacitors. No diodes. No resistors. Only the coils.

I am applying 15v Peak to peak from the function generator, yes, to the controls coils only. There is NO connection between the controls and the collectors whatsoever besides inductive. ONLY the positive from the function generator is connected. The ground lead is UNCONNECTED. There should be little or no current flow from the FG through the controls.

The collectors are highly insulated from the controls. (Three layers of insulation minimum) The scope probe is hooked across the collector coil, and is grounded (not open probe).

I repeat, the entire set of coils is ONLY inductive, no active or passive components whatsoever, besides the three leds across the collector. Leds disconnected do not affect the voltage much at all. (They draw the output voltage DOWN slightly.)

I seriously state this is anything BUT normal, and would like to know what the heck is going on. Why am I getting induction in an open loop system? How is electrical generation even occurring in this situation?

I can only think of two things myself.

1. Magnetic field storage/transmission in the solenoids due to pulsed voltage with no current from the FG.
2. Electrical field pulsation/transmission independant of a current induced magnetic field.

Remember, as I clarify yet again, the entire system is insulated from accidental grounding or current flow, and the function generator, the motive supply source of current for the system is open, not closed. I repeat, ONLY the positive FG supply lead is connected.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on June 05, 2008, 11:56:26 PM
I have to chime in here, because I have seen this often in my meager experiments. For me, this occurs most noticeably when the FG is tuned to the particular coil/scope setup. Hooking everything up correctly kills the effect. In my case, the scope was actually providing the power. The coil, being in resonance, did indeed boost what was being leeched from the scope, but resonance was all it was really contributing. Someone on the forum told me to isolate my scope input (through a transformer), then it became clear to me what was happening. This is also when I began to appreciate some of the effects feedback can have in the TPU.

Even though there's not a complete electrical return path, the coils to which the FG are attached are biased with each pulse. The bias creates potential, which in turn inductively creates potential on your collectors. But applying bias to a wire results in almost no current flow without a return path being available. No net work is being done - this is why hooking things up correctly kills any detectable output. The LEDs are being lit from the scope probe, which is picking up the ghostly imprint of potential that never became work.

Or at least this is how I explained it to myself. I'm definitely open to more enlightened thinking.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on June 06, 2008, 01:09:13 AM
what probably is happening, is you are getting a return through the ground lead on the scope probe. is both your scope and FG AC-powered?

if so, then I would suspect this is where your FG is getting it's return--through the earth/chassis lead.

try a fully isolated FG and your input signal will probably cease to exist while using only the pos. lead. you could use a transformer-coupled output, or a battey-powered FG
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: gn0stik on June 06, 2008, 01:34:33 AM
Unhook your scope.. Easy to test.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: tishatang on June 06, 2008, 09:22:47 AM
@All

Some thoughts that have come into my mind in regards to the "new" design:
We wind the caduceus wound toroid as a bifiler coil.  Two strands together.  One will be the right spin collector and one will be the left spin collector.  For rotation, we can use a single AC source to drive the vertical and horizontal coils for Lorretz O rotation..  The positive side for one direction of spin and the negative side for the other direction of spin.  Since both are being driven at the same time, we prevent runaway.  The fact that each hemisphere of the planet has its own dominate way the torsion forces want to flow, we will get some voltage output as we sum the two voltage outputs together from the Toroid Collector(s).  One side will produce more voltage than the other.  For example go to :

file:///C:/DOCUME~1/Chris/LOCALS~1/Temp/Rar\$EX09.968/coler/coler2.htm

Partial Quote:
"Due to a source, up to the present not investigated, and not explainable by existing scientific theories, an additional quantity of energy is freed during each cycle which leads to a continual raising of the amplitude of the mutual processes, until the magnetic cores are saturated.

"From the fact that in the resistance of the apparatus pulsed direct current is flowing? There is possibly an up to now unknown rectifying effect, or alternatively the gain in energy is produced only during one half of the cycle, either during the charging or discharging of the plates. The activity in the apparatus must take place in the ten oscillation circuits in a phase-like manner? No technical means were available to make the necessary tuning adjustments.

"It is clear from the above that the success of the inventor up to now could only be due to chance, or happy accident. The necessity, therefore, arises to transfer the apparatus from the state of empirical development, with sufficient technical means and based on results of an exact basic research, to a state of working procedure which can be controlled." Other experiments, conducted by Frohlich with the arrangement in Figure 6, convinced Coler that his theory was correct:

"The result obtained with this experimental arrangement? was the clear proof of a considerably larger energy during opening (intake), compared with closing impulses. The [10-50%] difference is always in favor of the opening impulse? Consequently this observation can also be considered as a proof of the fact that an energy difference exists. [There is a] considerable, but extremely short, energy peak of the opening impulse. My development of the "Space Energy Receiver" was based on this and was successful."

In the 1980s, George Hathaway (Planetary Association for Clean Energy, PACE) constructed a Magnetstromapparat that produced 50 millivolts, and demonstrated it at unconventional technology conferences. There has been no news of further development. The Barkhausen Effect upon which the Coler inventions work is a low-field phenomenon that occurs when a ferromagnetic material is subjected to a change in the applied magnetic field. A series of discontinuous steps develop, corresponding to reversals in magnetization domain volumes from 10-10 to 10-8 cm3. The size of the discontinuities can be increased by stressing the magnet. Possibly the soft iron magnets which Coler used were subjected to such stress by ultrasonic magnetostriction from the coil windings at the 180 kHz resonant frequency. One can only wonder why British Intelligence (sic) declassified the Coler report, but we can be glad they did. If only they had seen fit to include more schematics of the Stromzeuger, because the available diagrams are woefully inadequate. At least we now know a few key facts, to wit: (1) Ferromagnetism resonates at 180 Khz; (2) The Barkhausen Effect can be amplified to provide useful power (10 Khz is another key frequency here); (3) "Some of the magnets are wound in a clockwise direction looking at the N pole (called left) and others in an anti-clockwise direction (called right)". The resistance of the magnet-coil combination was about 0.33 ohm; (4) "The basic principle is that an electron is to be regarded not only as a negatively charged particle but also as a South magnetic pole"; (5) "The novel feature is that the capacities are connected to the secondary core through permanent magnets"; (6) "There is a considerable, but extremely short, energy peak of the opening impulse". It is to be hoped that the Stromzeuger can be redeveloped, since it is a relatively simple, low technology device requiring no exotic components. It should not be left "to chance, or a happy accident", as it was for Hans Coler.
************************************
I submit that the voltage Hans Coler got was because of the difference in relative strengths of the counter rotating fields coming in from the either.  It will always be stronger in one direction, or else whirlpools forming going down drains would a random event.

If this difference gives sufficient power in our "new" TPU, it means that in a counter rotating field environment, we are relatively safe from runaway.  We need only drive from single source AC, each side rectified and going to its respective coils for rotation.  We need only focus on the rotation speed necessary to get the magic to start happening.

A simple experiment to maybe prove this theory:
Get a 20 inch bicycle inner tube.  Put enough air in it to hold its shape but not to bulge in a weak spot.  Wind your bifiler caduceus toroid around it.  On each set of leads, put a led or neon bulb (or whatever is appropriate load).  Probably needs a diode ahead of the load?
Wind a small induction coil around the Caduceus toroid and put an AC signal into it.  One bulb should be brighter?  Try short +_DC pulses.  The stressed aether might rebound and give you more back than you put in?  The point is, one output  should be stronger than the other.

Try ramping up the frequency and see if resonance points are reached?  If so, make a different sized caduceus toroid and see if it has the same resonance points.  This will tell us if the resonance points are caused by the coil size or from the aether.  If there is a common resonance point, that might be a design frequency to look for in the new design.

I hope this helps.
Tishatang

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 08, 2008, 08:20:22 AM
@all

Good call guys, I think it was the scope providing either electrical power or a ground.

Gn0stic, I unhooked the scope as you suggested, and the "lights went out", pardon the pun.

I intend to investigate this effect more elaborately later. Right now I am not feeling very good.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: tishatang on June 10, 2008, 12:07:44 PM
@All

Here is a circuit that might prove helpful for the front end of the TPU?

http://www.techlib.com/electronics/crystal.html

Partinal Quote:  "Crystal Radio RF Amplifier
For the more experienced hobbyist...
One of the best places to add a transistor to a simple crystal radio is at the front end in the form of an RF amplifier. The circuit below is a simple but effective amplifier which will give surprising performance improvement. This amplifier can exhibit negative resistance for low settings of the 500 ohm pot which results in extra gain or even oscillation. So, the circuit can actually be considered to be a regenerative receiver with an external detector. The sensitivity is so high that no cold water pipe ground is needed and the antenna is short.

The behavior of the amplifier depends on how it is connected to the tuned circuit. When connected to a lower impedance tap as shown in the schematic, the gain will be lower with less tendency to oscillate. Higher taps or even connection directly to the antenna will give higher gain and even oscillation. The 500 ohm pot is adjusted to give adequate gain without squealing as stations are tuned. High regeneration settings will actually narrow the bandwidth of the tank enough to give the sound a "mellow" quality which sounds pretty good in a "tinny" crystal earphone! Lower settings are best when using an audio amplifier and the fidelity is quite good thanks to the linear detector (typical regens use changes in the operating point of the transistor to demodulate the RF). As with any regen, the gain may be increased after the station is tuned in and the circuit will oscillate, locked to the station's frequency.
bullet   Current consumption is about 1 mA which may be reduced by increasing the 1.8k but the RF envelope begins to distort below about 500 uA.
bullet   A 4.5 volt battery may be used if the 220 k resistor is reduced to 68 k.
bullet   The transistor may be just about any NPN small-signal transistor.
bullet   No ground is shown but performance is better with a good ground connected to the bottom of the tuner.
bullet   Longer antennas should be connected to taps instead of across the whole coil. A ferrite loopstick will pick up stronger stations with no antenna at all but use more audio gain after the diode detector and reduce the regeneration to get adequate bandwidth or the sound will be muffled."
**********************************

I can't seem to be able to copy the image of the schematic here, but available on above link.  What if the antenna-tuning input part part were replaced by my proposed 174.7 Khz resonant coil/magnet build?  Maybe the oscillations would build slowly being fed by natural resonance?  This could be a driver for vertical and horizontal coils to achieve rotation due the Loentz O force?

Just an idea.
Tishatang
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 13, 2008, 10:54:45 PM
@all

This is a repost of a post of mine from a completely different section than the "Steven Marks Devices". I thought is might be interesting, and applicable here as well. Enjoy!

".........  It actually makes sense to me. Let me explain why. I will have to use some math, so I apologize if I lose anyone here.

Note: ^2 = "squared" and sqrt() = square root

To say E=MC^2 for matter at rest, or E=(MC^2)/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2) with Lorentzian transformations applied for motion, or E=hf for electromagnetic energy, is somewhat cryptical. To state that the energy E referenced is actually the same form, or equivalent, then E=E.

What that means is that (MC^2)/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2) = hf. It has to be true, or E is not equivalent. In simpler terms, the property known as "energy" (E) is not "energy".

Therefore if we assume that E is truly = E, we may conclude from this that Mass itself is a function of frequency of an energy, since C and h (plank's constant) are actually constant numbers represented by symbolic form.

If mass is a function of energy frequency, then mass may well be transformed to either an increase of either frequency or energy, and vice-versa.

Now, also consider that E^2 = momentum^2 + M^2, or E= sqrt(momentum^2 + M^2)

Guess what, E = E (actually E^2 = E^2) principle yet again.......

In this we can state hf(MC^2/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)) = momentum^2 + M^2

We ten note that momentum is then a relation of a mass frequency in motion, which is true.

This then demonstrates that mass is not some quantity solely owned by "matter", and that "matter" is but another representation, form, or aspect of energy.

Otherwise, E=mc^2 would not be applicable to matter, as it's derivations are based upon ELECTROMAGNETIC formula. (Note the application of the Lorentzian transformations.)

Therefore, it should come as no shock to anyone that energy can manifest itself as any of the forms, or all of the forms, with a change in any of the functional parts of the base form.

Therefore, collision of photons, would equal a change in momentum or possibly even frequency, which might create particles, or release energy of various forms."
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on June 13, 2008, 11:43:01 PM
Very good post, Paul! I was trying to make this point in another thread several weeks ago whilst disputing parts of Einstein's theory, but did not say it so well as you have here. I'll re-iterate the layman's conceptual guts of my post, in the form of shallow but studied truisms:

Energy and Matter are interchangeable in any equation, with the appropriate conversions (Lorentz, the c^2 component). All 'detectable' energy has frequency (motion). All 'detectable' matter has frequency (motion). Energy without frequency is neutral. Matter without frequency is inert (one interpretation of "dark matter"). Matter can change forms through adjustments to its frequency. (Wanna see for yourself? Fill a saucepan with ice, apply heat until boiling.) Adjustments in frequency always add energy to or reduce the energy from the subject material. A subject material will always seek to rid itself of extra energy retained beyond its normal resting state (in the forms of excess motion in matter or excess charge in electromagnetism). An imbalance in energy distribution will always seek to level itself, just as water seeks its own level. Energy cannot be created, only expended. Matter cannot be created, only transformed. All things require energy to exist. Matter is a by-product of energy expression. The speed of light is not a limitation, only a reference value.

For those of you that like this sort of thing, I highly recommend "Subquantum Kinetics" by Dr. Paul LaViolette.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 16, 2008, 08:00:18 AM
@buzz-ard

Just some thoughts, which I originally thought self evident, yet I guess are not in many "popular" areas. I have been called pretty much everything but "heretic" for such notions, though this was heavily implied. ;D Theoretical physics has many "fun-house mirrors" at the basis for many of its conceptions. Simply put, just because something "appears" to be, doesn't mean that it necessarily is. Look at yourself in a fun-house mirror, and just because you appear to be three times your weight, doesn't mean you have physically changed in any manner.

Take the time dilation thought experiment using two clocks for example. You accelerate from the earth at C, and yes, the clock appears to slow down in your reference frame. Now, accelerate BACK to earth at the same rate....... (Guess what, your clocks match again. It was an optical illusion, as the same clock which "slowed down", now speeds up.) This particular illusion is unidirectional in nature.

Light has never been the "carrier of all information", as Einstein thought. (Electromagnetic energy is only one form or aspect of many FORMS of energy, and all carry information.) SR violates one of the base postulates of SR, in that specific frames of reference are given precedence over others.

Relativity needs to be revised.

@Art

You demonstrate humbleness. That takes Lockheed Martin, and a few others out of the picture. (Where you R&D'd) ;D

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: BEP on June 16, 2008, 12:14:18 PM
@Paul

**CAUTION**

You are now entering the HERITIC ZONE!

Where everything is spin and frequency. There is only one potential and as a result only one magnetic flux. Everything else is an imbalance or a separation of that.

Don't let the screen door hit you on the a** on the way in  ;D

Expending energy is also just transformation....
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on June 16, 2008, 03:57:12 PM
@BEP

The HERETIC ZONE - now that's funny! Made me think of Bill O'Reilly and the "No Spin Zone". He definitely doesn't get a new TPU.

Interesting point you make that expending energy is also a transformation. Matter and energy are the same animal, constantly transforming. Kinda brings the whole thing full circle, no?

@Paul

You got my point exactly. One can explain things theoretically until indigo blue in the face, but it's useless without two things: A starting point, and an engaging audience. Theoretical astrophysics is one of my more intense interests, but even the best theories are useless here until we have something to observe. Until I came across Paul LaViolette I thought I would never find anyone who shares my view of the universe, but I still have trouble finding an engaging audience for meaningful intercourse.

My fascination with the TPU and this forum stems from the fact that (as far as I know) none of us here are rocket scientists and aren't trying to be. We're regular Joes with a few extra bucks and a desire to make a difference. I can fit in here. Mostly.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 17, 2008, 07:52:18 AM
@Buzz

The only rockets I have designed were in high school. They didn't fly very well. ;D (Does that count?)

Probably would have worked better using a proper winding on a TPU. (A nagging itch in my brain.)

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on June 17, 2008, 08:13:41 AM
OK, so there's ONE rocket scientist here... I had my best luck with kites, about like Charlie Brown.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 18, 2008, 08:18:12 AM
@Spider

I was re-reading some posts, and found I completely missed your question on the rotating field. I truly am sorry.

I looked at the AVI you linked to, and yes, this is somewhat my conception of the rotating field. It is not exact, as the actual field would start at energization of a control coil with its necessary pulse. The field would grow during the pulse cycle, then start to collapse at its end. The next coil would start to energize just as the previous field starts to collapse, and the two N/S N/S fields would mesh temporarily, and seem to "slide" from the first coil to the second, and so on. This prevents the field from "flipping" polarity upon collapse.

Your demonstrative movie does show the basic idea though, however, in that the field remains oriented throughout the completion of each rotation around the circuit.

@all

I am getting "idea logged" (water-logging of the brain), so sorry if I haven't responded timely, or have missed a post.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 18, 2008, 08:35:16 AM
@Poynt & Gn0stic

I though of another thing to try, and this is weird. My big "Claw" TPU has three separate collectors independent of and insulated from each other. I thought last night to try the ground lead thing with the LEDS connected on their own collector, with the scope probe hooked to its own independent collector.

Guess what.... with the ground hooked up, the LEDS lit up. With the scope ground disconnected, they went out. WHICH LITERALLY MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE EITHER! The probe is insulated FROM the LED circuits, so could NOT have provided direct power!!!! What the HECK?

Paul scratches his head, and starts to groan.. Fleas vacate the premesis, due to environmental heating, news at eleven.

@BEP

Definitely a heretic by current scientific standards. I thunk, therefore I is.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Spider on June 18, 2008, 09:29:59 PM
@Paul,

No problem. I like making these little ani's to visualize my own thougths.

Greetings Rene
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 19, 2008, 04:16:59 AM
@loner

Yes, it does sound the same. Mine is all copper as well.

This "one wire" transmission effect truly is weird.

I am looking forward to  royer oscillator form of "weird" though. I think it might make a good break from the tpu grind for me right now.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 19, 2008, 07:52:34 AM
@Loner

WOW. You are quick on the uptake!

That was exactly what I am planning. I intend to try to reproduce your "accidental phenomena", but with the end goal applied to the TPU myself. The discharge you mentioned sounds suspiciously  like the DC "flame" discharge from the large TPU collectors..... I wanted to do some tests before claiming such, as I am still not sure, and wanted to understand the effect better first hand before speculating too much, and end up throwing everyone off track.

Concerning the armstrong, I am not familiar with this variety. I will look it up.

When you grabbed the diode, you become an open system capacitor. (One connection. Like a torus capacitor on the top of a tesla coil, for instance.) Your body capacitance changed the frequency of oscillation, among other things. I honestly think you probably hit an OU situation, but with an unstable system which was destroyed quickly during runaway.

The system was inherently self regulating. Otherwise the transistors SHOULD have blown sky high, with enough juice to burn the winding of the toroid. A good indicator is when the input wattage drops, but the output increases for any powered OU system.

I think the TPU will be self regulating in the same manner, for the same reason.

@all and loner ;D

I have designed a spike generator though, for use inline with a square wave signal. (Converts square wave to narrow AC spikes)

I have messed around with Sines, Squares, and Triangle waveforms. I have not messed around with spikes yet.

Take a flat toroidal permanent magnet, poles on flat faces. Wind a spiral pancake coil (pain in the butt) on one face of the magnet. This is the signal input. Wind another coil around the magnet like you would a regular ferrite toroid for a secondary.

My scope shows narrow band spike generation for whatever input frequency. It does seem to be limited between the low KHZ and low MHZ for spike generation. Some freaky stuff starts happening above 3 MHZ or so, and absolutely NOTHING below the KHZ range.

My "test" coil uses a small (1 7/8") flat mag I bought from allelectronics.com, and I have only three turns of 16ga stranded for my secondary, just for testing purposes. I intend to build a larger secondary later to test it better. some limitations may change with a better secondary.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 19, 2008, 08:03:09 AM
@all

I have a question, which my brain is refusing to answer. I think it is on strike. (No more Fields! No More Fields! No More Fields!)

I have found a big spool of wire I forgot about. This stuff is copper coated iron. I don't even remember what it is designed for, or where I got it. What would the field effects of such be, with the current flowing AROUND the iron through the copper coat, and can anyone think of any experiments for it ? ? ?

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: tishatang on June 20, 2008, 11:43:23 AM
@Paul and All

Would there be anything of use to us in this patent # 04639610

A rotating flux transformer with at least two torus?  Patent held by Westinghouse.

Tishatang
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: tishatang on June 22, 2008, 04:33:28 AM
@All

I just found a neat way to fine tune a tank circuit or self-resonant coil.  You add extra turns after the circuit!  Look at Fig 1 circuit B located here:

http://www.midnightscience.com/article3.html

To fine tune, all you have to do is snip off extra length or turns of the open end.  In addition, you have an open end to collect energy from the aether.

Tishatang

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: tishatang on June 22, 2008, 10:07:03 AM
@Art

Here is the part of the text you are missing.

"We know, of course, that L2 is still in the ?physical space.? of L1, contributing capacitance to the combination."

It is just below Fig 1, the last sentence just before the last paragraph.  By trimming away excess coils of L2,  you alter the capacitance of the whole coil.  Changing the capacitance should alter the self-resonance frequency of that coil.  Unless, I am mis-interpreting it?  I am looking at it differently than the article was intended.

I was picturing winding a coil around a ring magnet and you wanted the coil to have a certain frequency of self-resonance.  Let us say it will be a passive coil and its beginning will be soldered to its end.  The goal is to get it to ring by passing a magnet over it.  To fine tune it, you either have to add a trimmer capacitor. Or experiment by trial and error, unsolder it and cut some off and re-solder it, very time consuming.  But instead of joining it to its end, we have extra coils around the core of the magnet after the solder joint.  To fine tune it, we need only to unwind some of the extra free end coils and cut them off with cutters.  No unsolder and re-solder needed?  Assuming we are just below our target frequency at the point we solder the coil together, trimming some excess will lower the capacitance, thus raising the frequency slightly.  This should work for either a flat wound coil on top of the ring or a torus wound coil, if the way I see it is correct?

Chris  (Tishatang)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Spider on June 22, 2008, 11:29:52 AM
A while ago is was talking to a friend of mine who has been involved with amature radio for many years.
We were discussing all this tpu stuff I was reading.
He said to me: There could be something in this. When I point my antenna's towards the sky it is quiet. But when I point them towards the ground I hear a lot of noise, and its not from radio stations.

Has anybody ever made a scan of all the noise comming out of the ground? Maybe, just maybe, there is a frequency which contains enough energy to keep a small circuit resonating, of maybe even run away when fed back? Just a thought....

Greetings Rene
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: tishatang on June 22, 2008, 04:41:03 PM
Hi Rene

Here is a link to using the ground as an antenna.

http://www.borderlands.com/newstuff/research/ground-ant.htm

Maybe you or your friend can experiment along these lines?
According to reports, ground currents, sometimes called telluric currents, want to obey your wishes.  Something like at the quantum level, the particles behave differently because you are watching them.  If you research Nathan Stubblefield, I think he had complete control of these currents.

warm regards
Chris
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 25, 2008, 07:26:30 AM
@all

I am starting to think that we may be dealing with unaccounted for or "mis-defined" phenomena.

I was looking at the relationship of the electric and magnetic fields, according to a current in motion. I noticed something, in that the concept is A-symmetrical. All known forces are symmetrical in nature, in that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. I was talking about this to loner in a different thread, and thought I would go a little more in depth here, as I did not wish to throw his thread off topic.

First, I will demonstrate a graphic I made, which demonstrates the concept.

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/unknownforces.jpg)

The top drawing is the classical three line model showing that current, magnetic field, and electrical field are 90 degrees phased from each other. With current flow, both fields are generated at the same time, and these fields are perpendicular to the direction of flow, but separated by 90 degrees from each other.

The problem is that neither field is in opposition to each other, so what are the opposing fields which should be there? This is demonstrated in the bottom drawing with red lines and question marks.

Any ideas?

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 25, 2008, 09:34:49 AM
@Loner

Actually, I think I did just have a possible understanding of the bottom graphic. This is pure conjecture.

If you take the current line to mean "when current moves", the opposite would be "when current stops". This would mean that when current moves, the electric and magnetic fields are created.

It would also mean that the other two unaccounted for fields, which would mimic aspects of their correspondent magnetic and electric fields, would be generated when a moving current stops.

Radiant energy (electric field correspondent) and Gravity (Magnetic field correspondent, I hazard this due to it's similarities) perhaps?

These would be noticed the strongest, with the sudden speed of the stop initiated. Consider an extremely sudden current flow. You get massive and powerful electric and magnetic fields generated. With an extremely sudden current stop, you would see a massive effect of the other two as well.

However, either is hard to accomplish, since an object in motion tends to stay in motion, and an object at rest tends to stay at rest. (true for a force as well, as it demonstrates inertia.)

It ( C2 ) could also however be the product of a different particle flow than electrons, which is also possible.

Paul Andrulis

EDIT:

By the way, multiples of 3 are just an aspect of true resonance, in that frequencies of this multiple, or variations of this multiple, share exact rise and fall periods.

They are self-reinforcing, since at natural rise or fall time of any wave, the corresponding harmonics do not drop or rise when a longer wavelength lower frequency harmonic needs to drop or rise, but shares this exact drop or rise in potential.

Paul
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: triffid on June 25, 2008, 01:11:48 PM
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: BEP on June 25, 2008, 02:30:23 PM
Gentlemen,

"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction".

For every Force there is an equal and resultant opposite summation of reactions or a single reaction by forces or a force.

1. I believe the author of the first was mistranslated.
2. He was thinking in 2D.

Edit-->>

@Paul

This sounds like I'm attempting to negate you thinking but I'm not.

Let E=Force, C=Action and M=Inertia. The result would equal Mass or Energy?

The other three vectors are still missing. You can't have action at a distance but why not force?
Every time I look at this I think the equation is only half complete until the result always = zero.

Enough rambling.... off to kiss butt for a paycheck again.....

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on June 25, 2008, 07:18:34 PM
Force IS "action over distance". This is IMPLIED in physics. So, when particles collide, the fact of collision implies distance (from their virtual centers), because particles have non-zero size. If they were zero-sized, they would not collide. I think it's pretty safe to assume that spherical electrostatic field that surrounds electrons is the field that acts over distance, and force it puts on surrounding electrostatic fields depends on the momentary distance between centers of electrons. "Fusion" of electrons thus implies zero distance between electrons and requirement of infinite force applied -> thus impossible (unless, of course, electrostatic field of electrons is more complex).

On pauldude000's C, E, M graph, I think it's just a misleading graph. In my understanding there is no difference between "electric" (electrostatic) field and magnetic field (I gave some insights why before in some other posts). What every physicist seemingly forgetting is that ANY wave motion is performed in a complex plane thus having "real" and "imaginary" components. So, what is assumed to be a thing that differentiates electric and magnetic fields could simply be an existence of both real and imaginary components in wave. It's simply the same thing in quadrature: no need to extract "electric" and "magnetic" components in the flow of electrons. It's the same thing: a flow of electrons that have electrostatic fields. It's the reason Tesla could send TWO currents over the same wire in both directions: he probably simply knew mathematics and Fourier transform well, and built electronics that used real and imaginary parts of current independently. Even though, it may seem too mathematical, the truth is that this "wave" mathematics is fully supported by physical reality, so it's not someone's fantasy. Even radiowaves have inherent quadrature polarization.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 26, 2008, 02:09:41 AM
@loner, pese, & all

I have a possible oscillator I just designed, based upon a Hartley oscillator, with feedback for a two CC TPU I would like some input on.

Here is the schematic:

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/paultpuosc.jpg)

Notes: I tried to design it to use the capacitance of the CC's themselves, using high capacitance bifiliar winding technique. C in the schematic represents this natural capacitance.

The two switches  (S1 and S2) allow the system to be initiated by battery, then battery disconnected, with a safety shutoff for the feedback power from the collector. (makes me feel better though the feedback switch is more for peace of mind than usability.)

The bridge rectifier is to be constructed out of 25ns high clamp speed/power glass diodes.

D1, D2, and D3 are to force manually controlled current flow in the circuit.

R is a yet to be determined resistor which limits voltage/current flow through the feedback.

C1 is to block an accidental DC emitter to base short.

CC1 & 2 are the control coils.

The feedback power is taken directly from the collector through the bridge to self power the circuit after battery is disconnected.

...................

Now, what have I missed or hooked up wrong? (This is design stage, and I have not built it yet.)

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on June 26, 2008, 02:25:39 AM
High self-capacitance will effectively prevent the "effect" from occuring.

What you need is high self-inductance and this is what Tesla got with his "extra coil".  Self-inductance is max and self-capacitance min when the length of the coil (single layer solenoid) equals the diameter.  You can find this in old radio books as well as Dollard's work.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: BEP on June 26, 2008, 05:03:59 AM
Force IS "action over distance".

Excellent correction of my statement! Perhaps I should have used the word potential instead. So according to the classic definition of force it no longer exists when movement stops or the distance no longer changes?
Yes, I know there is 'another variation' of force definition (many others). The problem I have with it all is there is always 'another variation' on the definition.

In my understanding there is no difference between "electric" (electrostatic) field and magnetic field (I gave some insights why before in some other posts).

My understanding is still different. Perhaps flawed. So then momentum and the associated mass are one in the same? Bad analogy, I know.
Since one can exist without the other (electric/magnetic) and without movement how can they be one in the same. Hopelessly tied together, yes but the same? It is a binding factor that makes it all one as a system(IMO).

Learning never stops. I appreciate the lesson :)

Rather than clogg this good thread I'll look you up where those other posts reside asap.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on June 26, 2008, 05:26:20 AM
magnetic contains tempic and electric

electric contains tempic

just the way it works.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pese on June 26, 2008, 10:06:15 AM
@loner, pese, & all

I have a possible oscillator I just designed, based upon a Hartley oscillator, with feedback for a two CC TPU I would like some input on.

Paul Andrulis

Paul. the scematis are or.  it is not to show . that output coil , wiring to the diodebridge MUST be couplet in near of the oscillating coils.  Some mor help ... on mail.
Gustav Pese
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on June 26, 2008, 01:46:41 PM
Excellent correction of my statement! Perhaps I should have used the word potential instead. So according to the classic definition of force it no longer exists when movement stops or the distance no longer changes?

The true understanding of "force" is flawed throughout the physics. Force is a transient when it acts, and is potential field when it exists. It's like a DC voltage change. It implies a lot of things "behind the scene". In my understanding when two bodies or potential fields collide or come close, they create a "third" field which I call a "transient potential", or space DC potential (DC acoustic wave). So, when we are talking about applied force in motion we should keep in mind that two bodies repel from each other on the impact due to a "transient potential" appearing. In the case of macro rubber bodies this potential is most obviously represented by potential force of deformation. In the case of electrons or atoms things become much more complex as I think it's pretty shaky to assume electron's field can also deform. In my opinion, upon collision of electrons a virtual "transient" particle is born, which forms a system with the nearby electrons. And this is where "the overunity" may be hidden assuming this "transient" particle is actually appearing out of nowhere - out of ether or whatever. Without such particle I find it hard to visualize electron kinetics. So, while this particle may work as a "repellant" of electrons during direct electron-electron impact, this particle may act upon all nearby matter and electrons if the velocity of impact is high. However, to gain energy out of this transient particle, a special energy flow arrangement (symmetry) should be used so that this transient particle mainly accelerates nearby particles. In average, this transient particle will both accelerate and decelerate nearby particles yielding no net energy gain. This virtual particle may appear as attracting (another sign) in cases when two electrons pass near each other without collision - this is what may be happening in "Casimir effect", not understood well to date (mainly described via quantum mechanics ZPF, and may have its flaws). I think if such attracting particle never appeared, electrons would accelerate each other beyond sanity.

On the "force being action over distance" notion, I should add that this does not contradict electrical and acoustical facts, because both electricity and acoustics are driven by kinetic statistics and so speed of forceful particle interactions is limited. Indeed, while an impact of two electrons is heard by all universe, this does not change potential fields at a distance much due to 1/x^2 potential field intensity law and so kinetic "short-distance" interactions prevail making long-distance interactions minor and basically insignificant. Beside that electrical flow is mainly carried by EM waves which have a limiting speed of propagation C.

My understanding is still different. Perhaps flawed. So then momentum and the associated mass are one in the same? Bad analogy, I know.
Since one can exist without the other (electric/magnetic) and without movement how can they be one in the same. Hopelessly tied together, yes but the same? It is a binding factor that makes it all one as a system(IMO).

In my opinion, "momentum" cannot exist with particles or bodies having no internal structure. So, "momentum" is inherently an "assymetry" of substructural arrangement. For example, if we assume electron to be composed of 3 smaller subparticles, the momentum of electron can be "stored" as an assymetry between these subparticles (3 should be enough to store both linear and angular momentum). In this case, when subparticles are perfectly symmetrical, we may say that electron has no momentum relative to similar symmetrical electrons: relative to other non-symmetrical electrons it will have momentum, of course.

Electric/magnetic is a quadrature of the changing density of "charge" - note that DC current's magnetic and electric field intensity changes together.

I myself can hardly grasp this concept, but there is no factual or mathematical contradiction, because when one makes a Fourier transform, each point of our 3D space can be represented as a complex number. So, it's pretty safe to assume that we live in a complex-numbered 3D space whose future state solely depends on its current state.

Learning never stops. I appreciate the lesson :)
Rather than clogg this good thread I'll look you up where those other posts reside asap.

Thanks for the discussion, and I'm not a teacher - just trying to find a common denominator for my own understanding.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 26, 2008, 06:19:45 PM
@all

A note about using a diode bridge to recitify high frequency. I told Pese I would point this out to everyone.

For a bridge rectifier to work, it must be able to clamp the signals at speeds in ns FASTER than the frequency wave reversal time. Otherwise, it will not rectify anything. For instance, a 25ns clamp time diode will not work for any frequency with half wave >= 25 ns.

High frequency diodes are a must, and an "off the shelf" diode bridge will be worthless.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 26, 2008, 06:39:22 PM
@aleks

"In my opinion, "momentum" cannot exist with particles or bodies having no internal structure."

Photons and other electromagnetic phenomena have been demonstrated to have momentum. Momentum is based upon a moving mass. Notice I didn't say moving "matter".

I make this distinction as E=MC^2/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2) works. Ask yourself what possible relationship exists that causes electromagnetic constants and transformations to be applicable in any form to mass..........

I did a post previously in this thread, I think a page back which covers this in much more depth. It may well clear up some confusion.

To spoil it somewhat, mass is not a property of matter ONLY. Read the post to find out why.

Truthfully, I am starting to lean in the direction that matter itself has no real internal structure, at below sub-particle level.  Basically I agree with Einstein on this. Matter IS TRULY energy.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on June 26, 2008, 07:22:06 PM
Photons and other electromagnetic phenomena have been demonstrated to have momentum.
Momentum is based upon a moving mass. Notice I didn't say moving "matter".
Well, photons are waves, and are definitely massless. They of course have a momentum, but it is very strictly defined via E=hv * direction vector (or something else in that manner), so it's kind of "momentum of energy", not tied to mass (e.g. impact wave that propagates in air also carries a kind of momentum which will show force upon impact with any physical object).

I myself make a differentiation between particles and EM waves. Electro-magnetic waves may well be the same thing as acoustic waves, but propagating in a complex-numbered medium (vacuum or gaseous/crystalline-structured aether). Acoustic waves are strictly real-valued and thus have no polarization, but do have negative frequencies that accompany any acoustical vibration. I think anybody claiming EM waves as being transverse is giving an errorneous understanding in a hope to justify EM waves polarization. In complex-numbered space you do not need to "invent" transverse waves to model EM waves polarization: you just need to extend your vision and "see" complex-numbered reality (I'm finding it hard to visualize, but I'll try more), and understand the fact that longitudinal waves may carry polarization in such reality.

There should be ways to "convert" between particles and EM waves, but this probably is done at high energy densities and involves "time looping" I was mentioning already. Note that electron's electrostatic field may also be a complex-valued field with a "picture" that may unite all separate facts about electron.

And Einstein was dealing with subatomic bond energies. I find it pretty funny to see somebody mentions Einstein in relation to understanding of subparticle reality. His theories do not cover this. He helped promote atomic bomb that releases subatomic bond potential energy. It's like atomic chemistry - nothing more than that.

Today, "Electron->EM wave-> electron" conversions is a pseudoscience, nobody will be buying it for real.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 29, 2008, 09:07:27 AM
@aleks

You really need to share the punchline, as a joke must be understood to be funny.

The truth is, I am trying to understand your post, but it really doesn't make much sense upon close examination.

I can define many things using various formula myself, yet the formula I choose does not limit the application of other equally valid formula.

An impact wave of air is a MASS of air impacting a MASS of a physical object. It DOES tie in with the concept of a momentum of energy, which can also be defined with the formula from my last post on E=MC^2. E= quite literally means "pure energy is.......", and not "mass energy is.......", nor is it "EM energy is.....", or a number of other variations. I also would guarantee that the "apparent mass" of a photon, when plugged into E=MC^2/sqrt(1-V^2/c^2) is equal to hf...... (use the value of the speed of light in atmosphere to avoid the "undefined aspect of MC^2/0 = infinity garbage.)

I could go over everything, but I will be brief.

Concerning E=MC^2.......

Since

1. The concept of E=MC^2 was published in the neighborhood of 20-25 years before the Manhattan Project. The Manhattan Project was initiated BECAUSE of E=MC^2, not vice-versa. (The Manhattan Project was invention of the first nuclear weapon.)

2. E=MC^2 is derived using electromagnetic formula and constants. (You know, the ones governing EM waves.)

3. Photons have "apparent" demonstrable and demonstrated mass..... (Notice I emphasized "apparent", as there is nothing which is truly "unreal", "apparent", or "virtual" about anything.)

4. E=MC^2 by no means dealt with "ONLY" subatomic bonds. Where did you come up with this? If so, then the formula would have been misused and misapplied to determine the increase of mass with speed. (The very formula determinate that the photon itself cannot have mass and then travel at C itself. ;D )

5. E=E or the term "pure energy" which is the base definition of E in both E=MC^2, E=hf, etc.., is worthless and a figment since there would be no valid definition FOR E.

6. The mass of particles and sub-particles, are equally governed by the relationship of E=MC^2... (It is valid in BOTH the micro and macro scales.)

As far as it being funny. Kewl. Go for it. More power to ya! I just personally do not see what is so funny. Could be a simple difference of sense of humor. I like puns myself.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on June 29, 2008, 09:16:41 AM
As far as it being funny. Kewl. Go for it. More power to ya! I just personally do not see what is so funny. Could be a simple difference of sense of humor. I like puns myself.
What was funny is attributing things Einstein didn't invent or even thought about. He's not some Almighty creator.

I insist that E=MC^2 basically works with subatomic bond energies ONLY. Yep, you may believe that when you "crack" an electron you'll get that much energy (MC^2), but until this is done and proven, it's a belief - not a reality. EM waves have no mass - and so I have no clue why you are trying to equate EM wave to particle mass. Until EM wave is converted into particle, it's a belief as well.

Formulas have their "field of application" - it's a fact. E=MC^2 simply tells you how much energy you can get after cracking a heavy atom into two lighter atoms (IF you can crack it). So, it basically shows how much BOND energy you can hope to acquire. There's nothing more about this formula.

Also, you probably know about "defect of mass" which makes E=MC^2 a little more complicated to use in practice.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on June 29, 2008, 11:04:48 AM
"Mass defect" is used to calculate "binding energy" I was referring to - this is what is being released in fission/fusion reactions. In this sense E=MC^2 covers binding energies only - it's not usable for particle creation/destruction. Well, of course you can (as physics does) split any particle into subparticles - but you'll probably have to do it infinitely until your particles are zero in size. The mechanism of particle (like quark or lepton) construction is undefined, and there is no accepted mechanics of this exist to my knowledge. At the moment physics is solely based on discovered particles.

Also do not forget that "energy" is never a separate phenomenon - it is whether kinetic/potential energy tied to a system of objects, or EM wave energy. Mass on the other hand is not a substance (matter). In many cases I read as someone trying to use "substance=energy" semantics while this is totally wrong. Mass is an attribute of substance, it is not a substance itself.

So, semantically, an intermix of particles changes mass AND defines binding energies. So, E=MC^2 basically equates mass to binding energies of a splittable structure.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 29, 2008, 06:59:15 PM
What was funny is attributing things Einstein didn't invent or even thought about. He's not some Almighty creator.

I insist that E=MC^2 basically works with subatomic bond energies ONLY.

You may insist at your leasure, as I firmly believe in free speech, but it changes nothing. No, Einstein is not an almighty creator, and I disagree with him on many points. This topic however, is not worthy of argument, and it requires two participants to hold an argument.

Argument is over.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on June 30, 2008, 05:15:30 AM
Einstein stated himself that he did not know if E=MC^2 was true.

From the man himself:

Quote
All these fifty years of conscious brooding have brought me no nearer to the answer to the question, 'What are light quanta?' Nowadays every Tom, Dick and Harry thinks he knows it, but he is mistaken. ? I consider it quite possible that physics cannot be based on the field concept, i.e., on continuous structures. In that case, nothing remains of my entire castle in the air, gravitation theory included, [and of] the rest of modern physics. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

You want the answer?  It is quite simple, and even advanced civilizations can only offer the same answer.

"Light just is."

---------------------

EDIT:  Follow only Einstein and you are a fool, but you can make a good paycheck...

---------------------

Ever wonder what Tesla's RE is?  A changing field (use region if you like) of pressure different from the surrounding pressure.  That simple.  Like a moving air current - the wind.  Over two years I searched for that answer.  Dollard calls it dielectric flux - which it is - but does not get to the basics that the density of this field is different and changing - propagating.  Quite amazing really.  Throw a little Wilbert Smith and Francis Nipher in and you see high voltage is the key to creating the pressure differential.   Now 12v ain't gonna get it.  Just a guess as it varies, but you would need probably 20 to 50 volts just to see anything.  1000v and you getting the goods, 10k and your kickin' ass.  100k and you're a hero - news at 6.

Had mankind followed Tesla, we would be populating the star systems instead of bitching about the price of gas and how wrong Einstein really was.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on June 30, 2008, 08:31:38 AM
"Light just is."

Ever wonder what Tesla's RE is?  A changing field (use region if you like) of pressure different from the surrounding pressure.

I'm sure that light is simply a longitudinal wave in a complex-numbered medium.

I think Tesla's RE is the same thing as I'm hypothesizing (DC acoustic wave). What the heck is this wave you ask? It's very simple. Take two objects that have kinetic energy and make them collide. On the very moment of collision, kinetic energy of both objects will quickly and gradually vanish for a moment. What happens to the energy? Quite simple: it is converted into DC acoustic wave (or Radiant Energy field). On the next step this RE field will accelerate collided particles and will fade away as soon as particles fly away from each other. In fact it is how MASS is created - that's why E=MC^2 works very well if you use it correctly to estimate binding energies (energy used to stick particles together). I'm just expanding the concept to any colliding particles (the reality we live in is universal) - not just nuclear bonds. To sum up, in my hypothesis, E=MC^2 can be used as a measurement of transient mass created upon collision of particles having summary energy of E. This mass as Tesla's RE is a concept totally unexplored in physics. But I'm sure it hides a key to overunity, because mass obviously is non-reactive: it can't vanish just because some other object flies nearby this mass field.

Well, I'm pretty sure that even molecular compositions may have their "defect of mass". I have not found any info on that, but according to what I've written above, molecular bonds should also affect mass.

...

I think I've "nailed" it this time. "Transient mass" appearance is exactly why discharges may work in overunity devices. The same I think applies to magnetostrictive materials and resonant modes created in them - they affect bond distances and so they should create transient masses as well.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on June 30, 2008, 02:54:49 PM
To add a bit more detail, in the case of molecular bonds you may see this transient mass quite obviously when you are compressing a piece (volume) of matter. Of course, in a closed system this will increase pressure, but beside that you'll in fact increase mass of matter - together with its changed dimensions. So, now you clearly see how kinetic energy quite obviously turns into mass and potential energy together. I know this example is too simple/banal, but in search for overunity it's quite an important piece of puzzle I think.

(defect of mass is a bit inverse, because it literally "steals" mass when kinetic energy is stored in subatomic bonds - something like that happens when you expand piece (volume) of matter instead of compressing it)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on June 30, 2008, 04:44:53 PM
I have to go wash your ideas out of my mind before they contaminate my own.

"complexed numbered medium"?  "transient mass"?

Kinetic energy and collisions?  Are we smashing particles now?

RE has nothing to do with "particles".
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on June 30, 2008, 04:50:13 PM
I have to go wash your ideas out of my mind before they contaminate my own.

"complexed numbered medium"?  "transient mass"?

Kinetic energy and collisions?  Are we smashing particles now?

RE has nothing to do with "particles".
Oh, yeah. Here's another source of contamination: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiant_energy Or is it exactly what you are thinking RE is? ;)

"Tesla was now operating under entirely new rules which he referred to as ?dynamic? electro-static forces" My DC Acoustic Wave is exactly dynamic electro-static force. When you change its sign, it's a gravity (mass) force. Otherwise it's an "electro-static" force you can change at your will.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on June 30, 2008, 06:48:46 PM
Oh, yeah. Here's another source of contamination: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiant_energy Or is it exactly what you are thinking RE is? ;)

"Tesla was now operating under entirely new rules which he referred to as ?dynamic? electro-static forces" My DC Acoustic Wave is exactly dynamic electro-static force. When you change its sign, it's a gravity (mass) force. Otherwise it's an "electro-static" force you can change at your will.

Yeah. OK.  I'll just leave you alone from now on.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on June 30, 2008, 06:50:05 PM
@Aleks

What supposedly is a "DC acoustic wave"?

DC and "acoustic wave" have nothing in common. I am starting to see a piltdown man here.

Do you know about the piltdown man?

A researcher wanted to find the "missing link" of evolution so badly, and wanted others to believe in evolution to the extreme that he took human remains and ape remains, and MADE his "missing link". He was famous for a time, now is infamous.

I bring this up, as the concepts being proposed are not just conflicting, there seems to be intent behind them. I try to be generous in that it may be a misunderstanding on my part. Therefore please explain this notion.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on June 30, 2008, 07:23:40 PM
No problem, just leave it alone as Grumpy did it. Unfortunately, discussions here are largely non-constructive. Even if I had a working device, it would not help if you knew nothing about how it operated. Nobody wants to be an ape but then everybody proves by his deeds he's an ape simply by doing something without ANY understanding of what he's doing.OK, let's leave this alone.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on July 01, 2008, 11:09:15 PM

And the quote: "There is no energy in matter other than that received from the environment." E=MC^2 is unfortunately an experimental fact (together with time lag of satellites in regard to on-Earth clocks). Its understanding (and application) is, however, CAN be seen from another point of view - e.g. the one I've offered. (and you'll still have to stick to Joules if you want to transform understanding into known and proven physics). Mass is not a matter - and that's all I wanted to note. Mass is a gravitational field much like electrostatic field is. Mass is produced from stress of ordinary electrostatic fields. That's the reason Keely's "spheres in spheres" has so much meaning. When you are stressing three spheres to each other, they create additional sphere that surrounds them.

Complex-numbered medium (gas or crystal) is the medium where each node has SIX degrees of freedom meaning that position (or disposition) of each node is defined by 3 complex numbers that correspond to space's dimensionality.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 02, 2008, 01:45:00 AM
@aleks

First, I thought you asked me to desist......

"Though these principles guided his future research and experiments, Tesla did not announce his theory until near the end of his life after he had been disillusioned by the war efforts. The Dynamic Theory of Gravity neither appears nor is mentioned anywhere in standard Tesla informative sites and reportedly, is still classified and unavailable under the FOIA."

"Tesla's theory put him in direct contrast with the re-emerging Relativity theory, which is that energy does not directly originate from matter or vice versa, but that matter behaves as a medium for forces to act upon or to act through, and that without matter there is no Energy (nor Force) and vice versa (he said a body without force is like a body without a mind)."

Notice that in the first sentence from the introduction this individual (the writer) states that the theory was announced, but no information is available, hinting that the government is withholding the info and it is "classified". The writer states later that no mathematics have been provided whatsoever.

Yet he seems to supposedly have all this information at his fingertips to write the rest of this massive article. Note the second quote, in which he writes essentially exactly what Tesla's theory is, and goes in depth in explanation, even quoting SWAMIS as reference......

Come on.....

This reminds me of the radiant energy horsepucky where people supposedly quote Tesla as to what radiant energy is, when he states what it is in a patent quite clearly. See patent #685,957 "Apparatus for the Utililization of Radiant Energy"

AVAILABLE HERE->http://www.keelynet.com/tesla/index.html (http://www.keelynet.com/tesla/index.html)

Amazingly enough, Radiant Energy has a name today, it is called ionizing radiation. (Ultraviolet, X-Rays, Alpha, Beta, & Gamma particles, etc...)

What IS amazing is how many people "quote" Tesla.

Many of Tesla's views were correct, so were many of Einstein's. I agree with parts of both's views. BOTH were just men.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 02, 2008, 01:54:54 AM
@aleks

I just noticed something from your last post. Who, besides you in your reference, stated that "mass is matter"? Mass is NOT matter. I was explaining that mass is a  FUNCTION or ASPECT of BOTH energy AND matter. (I implied that it is a shared function, IE a field effect.)

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 02, 2008, 05:26:58 AM
@ Paul,

Don't be foolish now.

Cross-reference of Alek's terminology puts him in rock-throwing distance of the grail.

Radiant energy may often be referred to rays and such, but what Tesla discovered was far more important than mere "rays".
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on July 02, 2008, 09:23:09 AM
pauldude000, many books and articles that discuss Tesla's legacy have a lot of flaws in their reasoning and flow of facts. Some refer to the fact that many works of Tesla were siezed by government. So, lack of the whole picture is a normal state of things - no need to accuse anybody.

As Grumpy noted, radiant energy is not just "small particles" from the Sun (now known as neutrino) nor some other EM radiation. It's clear that Tesla referred to "radiant energy" in at least one very different application: Wardenclyffe tower where I think Tesla wanted to produce a powerful dynamically-changing electro-static field varying at a predefined frequency that could reach the whole world - for both communication and powering applications. It's far beyond EM radiation. It's a key to both gravity control and true overunity (energy from aether). One important aspect to note is that this had to be a UNIT electro-static field. It's not that this tower wanted to positively or negatively charge every bit of surrounding matter as in conventional understanding of charge (which is quantized by charge of electron). Unit electro-static field has its own charge.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on July 02, 2008, 09:39:34 AM
I just noticed something from your last post. Who, besides you in your reference, stated that "mass is matter"? Mass is NOT matter. I was explaining that mass is a  FUNCTION or ASPECT of BOTH energy AND matter. (I implied that it is a shared function, IE a field effect.)

Well, in the first place I myself had a hard time to distinguish between the two. Also have a look here what our children are tought: http://www.nyu.edu/pages/mathmol/textbook/mass.html "Mass is the amount of matter an object has."

I stumbled to this dated work: http://www.timestar.org/mass.htm So, even at that time ordinary bla-bla-ing assumed that mass is matter, and the authors insisted this is incorrect. They also give an idea that electrons can change their mass - it only differs from my view is that I think electrons should collide with something in order to convert their kinetic energy into transient mass.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 02, 2008, 10:22:43 AM

You know what they say, "A picture is worth a thousand words", AND "The best place to get information is directly from the horses mouth". Lets see who will listen to Tesla himself.

A quote from his patent # 685958 "Method of Utilizing Radiant Energy":

(http://www.geocities.com/pauldude000/teslaquote.jpg)

"Minute particles of matter which are strongly electrified........."

I said before, I say again, read the original patent quoted in the last post, then read this one. His device in his own words, IN BOTH PATENTS, works according to ionizing radiation, like it or not.

The problem with so much interpretation of Tesla's words are that one person puts in his two bits, another follows and puts in his two bits, and before you know it, for every dollars worth of information claimed to be from him Tesla only owns two cents. Everyone then claims that Tesla was the complete author, when generally his contribution was a partially misunderstood concept and his name.

Tesla himself would be shaking his head, exasperated in complete disbelief if he could see all the BS people attribute to him today.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on July 02, 2008, 10:45:41 AM
Tesla himself would be shaking his head, exasperated in complete disbelief if he could see all the BS people attribute to him today.
Of course, I've read the patent. And your confusion is understandable. Well, maybe I'm incorrect in assuming Tesla EVER thought of something along the lines I'm writting myself. But the talk about producing some kind of "shield" is something to note - this is mentioned in some sources in relation to Tesla. Maybe it's not about "radiant energy shield". But then again you do not know what this "RE antenna" really "pumped in". If it's not in production today there are two possibilities: either it does not work or nobody knows how it really works. Beside that, my insights do not rely on fantasy only. I'm not trying to convince anybody by "injecting" authority of Tesla or someone else. I'm just trying to find "parallels". Again, no need to accuse anybody - it's counter-productive. Trying to accuse me I'm wanting to "gain" anything in these freelance internet forum discussions is a plain paranoia. Things are "gained" in a scientific environment, in conferences and publications in Nature, Scientific American, etc. Patents are also used for "gain". Get real.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 02, 2008, 04:20:00 PM
Tesla said many things:

Quote
I asked Dr. Tesla if his plan for transmission of power between planets involved the use of cosmic rays, and he stated that the two projects have no connection whatever. He stated that he has continued his experimental work in the laboratory on the interplanetary power transmission project and is certain of its feasibility.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on July 02, 2008, 04:52:11 PM
Yep, Radiant Electricity is close to what I'm writing myself:
http://www.communicationagents.com/chris/2003/06/06/ramifications_of_free_energytesla_and_others.htm

"No reversal of current was permissible, else the effect would not manifest."

One interesting idea... What if one can "pump in" more charge into capacitor than usual? Radiant Energy patent also tells about "cracking" capacitors when they are overcharged. Seems like it is important. I.e. striking an already charged capacitor with more energy.

"Tesla found it impossible to measure a diminution in radiant force at several hundred yards..."
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 02, 2008, 05:58:57 PM
Yep, Radiant Electricity is close to what I'm writing myself:
http://www.communicationagents.com/chris/2003/06/06/ramifications_of_free_energytesla_and_others.htm

"No reversal of current was permissible, else the effect would not manifest."

One interesting idea... What if one can "pump in" more charge into capacitor than usual? Radiant Energy patent also tells about "cracking" capacitors when they are overcharged. Seems like it is important. I.e. striking an already charged capacitor with more energy.

"Tesla found it impossible to measure a diminution in radiant force at several hundred yards..."

Exactly.  Radiant electricity is aften confused with radiant energy - especially when one uses "RE" which can men either one.

"Pumping" more charge into a capacitor than usual is what Bedini speaks of when charging capacitors and batteries with RE.  Now, when we look at what goes on in a capacitor we see that it is the "dielectric" material that is "stressed" or "polarized" or "altered" - the conductive plates merely provide a means to access the dielectric.  The "change" is stored in the dielectric.  So, if the energy changing the dielectric were to somehow be more efficient then you would get more charge in the capacitor.

The "tempic" field declines with distance - not the distance squared like electric charge and not the distnce cubed like magnetic fields - just the distance - so it is ideal for communications and any other transmissions between two points.  Of course we don't need to transmit energy between points if we can just collect it at the point where we need it.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: aleks on July 02, 2008, 06:47:19 PM
Grumpy, I guess this link http://www.treurniet.ca/Smith/Tempic.htm describes what you mean by Tempic field?

In my current understanding, "fields" - may not be required at all if you consider space as being filled with complex-numbered resonators having 6 degrees of freedom (i.e. beside normal 3 dimensional displacement they have additional 3 dimensions which accompany them). Then magnetic/electric interactions are easily unified. But beside that and important "function" of such complex-numbered space is that it can form static dispositions of resonators. E.g. in "no energy" state this space is filled with resonators at equal distances from each other. However, when space is "curved", resonators are placed non-uniformly (e.g. concentric non-uniformity) thus creating a gradual change of length standard, or what we would call a gravity: simply because vibrations will be carried toward the center of non-uniformity at a diminishing or increasing speed.

I have not studied this complex-numbered space myself, but it may be very possible that waves may propagate in circular manner there quite easily. Thus various vibratory modes can be established of varying vastness and frequency.

Hopefully after more tinkering with the idea I can reduce magnetic/electric (maybe tempic) into a simple oscillation of this complex-numbered space.

Note that as I see "radiant electricity" can be made beam-like just by engaging several devices (or generators) along the same axis (even if a single generator produces spherical field).

(complex-numbered space can probably be represented as 3D complex-numbered matrix with each element being a polar coordinates vector - this however limits each node to 2 degrees of freedom - other degrees of freedom are "locked" as in-matrix positions, so it's actually 5 degrees of freedom - not 6 as I thought at first).

what a mess, I know... I'm just trying to represent our reality as a some "gradient field matrix" where each element is defined by polar coordinate pair. This way it will be very easy to use 3D discrete complex Fourier transform to calculate its state in frequency domain.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 07, 2008, 07:15:42 PM
I think we have strayed way past SM AND Tesla, time to get back on topic.

I am going to again go over SM's words, and examine carefully his statements. (This never hurts anyway.) I am going to go over tesla's patents with this in mind, and some other coils, and see if something new doesn't manifest itself.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 08, 2008, 09:58:52 AM
@All

I was considering junking this thread, but decided to revise it instead.

My understanding before is comparable to a fart in a windstorm.

It has mostly blown away, to be replaced with a new exciting aroma. Old one junk, not possible. New one possible.

Some interesting points, with my current understanding, which may change rapidly on short notice..

1. You can use three CC's, as it is simpler.
2. You are not designing a Tesla patent type of coil. This is way different.
3. Understand that there are AT LEAST three separate collector COILS, with a set of controls wound over EACH collector coil.
4. The controls for the individual coils are the exciter coils (lose the concept of primary and secondary. This is anything BUT a transformer. Think exciter/excited rather than primary/secondary.)
5. There is not just one rotating field..... there are at least two and possibly three....... (rotating at right angles to each other, which forms a weird shaped oddly spinning pseudo ball shape.)
6. One field rotates around the circumference (As previously described).
7. Another is created by the collectors themselves, due to phase difference of the field of each.
8. THREE frequencies are needed, one for each SET of matching controls per entire SET of collectors.
9. The center collector should be fed in reverse control coil order to the outer two collector sets.
10. Point 9 is critical, as it forms the second rotating field from the current formed in the three collectors due to the induced sines from each set of controls around their parent collectors. (see the pancake coil experiment I spoke about in loners thread.)
11. This shares concepts with both a particle accelerator, and something else. (Dont ask the "something else", as I have but a fuzzy notion at this point.)
12. IT IS NOT a standing wave effect....

I am still putting this together in my mind, and will post more as my understanding grows.

All this and much more from sifting a lousy pdf, which by the way I have "read" multiple times, with a fine toothed comb...

I am also creating another pdf, with all relevant quotes from SM, the good Dr., etc. in a somewhat numbered and categorized format for all interested.

By the way, Steven never claimed to have any patents of this in his name. In fact, he said the coils themselves were not patented at all. He said that the only patents were concerning the control circuitry, and these were to UEC. (Which means under the name of one of the members of UEC.) Anyone interested should look for an "energy generation" patent utilizing three harmonic frequencies, and measuring both heat and voltage, probably claimed for a toroidal transformer. Do patent searches on the first names of the people he mentions he worked with in the pdf, then look through the results for anything suspicious concerning transformers, efficient control pulsing systems, Energy generation/control/distribution etc.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: otto on July 08, 2008, 10:26:10 AM
Hello all,

@Paul

1. you can use 2, 3 , 4 or 8 control coils
2. we have bifilar wound controls - like Tesla did it and described it
3. there is at least 1 collector or 2 or maximal 3 collectors
4. the controls, wound in a bifilar manner, are 1 exiter, trigger coil and the other part of the bifilar is the load coil
8. 2 or 3 frequencies are needed
12. its a longitudinal wave or said in a better way, we are dealing with compression waves, clearly to see on my scope.

Of course Im talking about a TPU with a core.

Otto
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: tsl on July 08, 2008, 11:20:06 AM
Hello all,

@Paul

1. you can use 2, 3 , 4 or 8 control coils
2. we have bifilar wound controls - like Tesla did it and described it
3. there is at least 1 collector or 2 or maximal 3 collectors
4. the controls, wound in a bifilar manner, are 1 exiter, trigger coil and the other part of the bifilar is the load coil
8. 2 or 3 frequencies are needed
12. its a longitudinal wave or said in a better way, we are dealing with compression waves, clearly to see on my scope.

Of course Im talking about a TPU with a core.

Otto

You can have as many collectors as you wish.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: otto on July 08, 2008, 11:46:35 AM
Hello all,

@tsl

if you think that with a lot of collectors you would have more on the output then youre wrong.

Not so long ago I had a collector with 24 strands of fine wires, each strand with 10 or so very fine, thin, wires. Output was not bad but....

Im using my lamp wire with 2 strands and the output is the same.

Otto
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: BEP on July 08, 2008, 07:12:59 PM
IMO...
It depends on your definition of a collector.
If a collector is what most call the TPU then tsl is right. If it is a single horizontal loop then both would be right. If mutiple turns of a horizontal loop then too many turns and things become worse.
To me, the collector is the complete unit. The instructions from SM fit better.
Yes, the control coil are only controls.

Opinions only....
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: zapnic on July 08, 2008, 10:48:33 PM
hello
mmmhh sm say about "inrush currents" is his overunity
so how we will fit that in ?
remanent induction?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: giantkiller on July 10, 2008, 05:14:16 PM
Look at the Colorado Springs coil laid on its side.

Nikola Tesla seated inside a circular framework 51 feet in diameter, which supported the primary and secondary conductors of the largest Tesla coil ever built, at his Colorado Springs experimental station in 1899. The oscillator is operating at 100 khz, and the discharges occur with a deafening roar striking an unconnected, comparatively smaller diameter coil 22 feet away. The activity of the oscillator created earth currents of such magnitude that sparks an inch long could be drawn from a water main at a distance of 300 feet from the station. The inscription on the photograph is addressed to Sir William Crookes and reads; To my illustrious friend Sir William Crookes of whom I always think and whose letters I never answer. June 17, 1901 Nikola Tesla.

I see 3 coils.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 15, 2008, 08:54:01 AM
@zapnic

The principle SM was attempting to get across is a simple one, really. When electricity first flows in a circuit, you have the "inrush current". This current should technically flow at the same voltage as originally applied, yet it gains a sudden spike in voltage, at the same current. This boost is attributed to interaction with the earth's magnetic field.

In essence you put in 5V @ 100ma, and for a small fraction of a second, you see a spike of say 20v @ 100ma. For that fraction of a second you see over-unity. The sharper the input pulse and the cleaner the signal, the higher the initial voltage spike and, viola, the greater the factor of over-unity.

@Giantkiller

I love that photo. There are actually several versions of this photo, at different angles that were taken. What is funny is that many actually thought BECAUSE of this photo that Tesla was actually sitting there, when this is actually an intended effect, and not reality. Tesla wanted a double exposure pic for publishing in the "Electrical Experimenter" magazine of the time, among others. The coils would have killed anyone within the cage upon operation.

One photo was taken from each angle with him sitting, then another superimposed with the coil in operation. What is interesting, is that there are other coils as well not present in this picture, if I remember correctly. It has been awhile.

Paul Andrulis
Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 15, 2008, 04:37:07 PM
In essence you put in 5V @ 100ma, and for a small fraction of a second, you see a spike of say 20v @ 100ma. For that fraction of a second you see over-unity. The sharper the input pulse and the cleaner the signal, the higher the initial voltage spike and, viola, the greater the factor of over-unity.

Paul Andrulis

i'd be ecstatic to see anyone prove this
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on July 15, 2008, 06:24:10 PM
@poynt99 - I've seen it, Paul has seen it, Otto has seen it, as have many others, and you can too. Send a sharp pulse through a wire or coil and see the kick on your scope. It's a nano-second event, so you'll need to dial the scope to the smaller divisions. It's a transitional effect that occurs at some level in any device when DC power is applied. Why DC? Because standard AC power from generators provides smooth sines instead of sharp pulses. But I do not agree with the notion that the kick comes from the earth's magnetic field, as SM quoted from the EE book - I think it's more of a wavefront effect.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: giantkiller on July 15, 2008, 10:47:28 PM
Check out Dale Ponds water hammer explanation of the Keely engine on youtube.
The most important thing that will ever hear is the attachment of a microwave waveguide or horn on the bottom of the water channels. In late 1800's no less.
For those who constantly berate and want proof this should educate you into the effect of impulse resistance. Matter applied at a speed faster than the destination can respond. The effect, reflection, echo, artifact is greater than the frequency level of the offending matter. We only see it after it has slowed down to match our senses(Walter Russell). How narrow, eh? Everything else becomes mute.
Except for desktop eletrostatic nuclear detonation. 8)

Or do a belly flop from 22 feet up and tell us where the water went on impact. ;)

--giantkiller. Keely was a true genius.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 15, 2008, 11:41:51 PM
i'd be ecstatic to see anyone prove this

you can do it to.... :)

what hapins if...... it is 5 v 10 amp :o :o :o

hummmmm.....

ist
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 16, 2008, 03:40:07 AM
@poynt99 - I've seen it, Paul has seen it, Otto has seen it, as have many others, and you can too. Send a sharp pulse through a wire or coil and see the kick on your scope. It's a nano-second event, so you'll need to dial the scope to the smaller divisions. It's a transitional effect that occurs at some level in any device when DC power is applied. Why DC? Because standard AC power from generators provides smooth sines instead of sharp pulses. But I do not agree with the notion that the kick comes from the earth's magnetic field, as SM quoted from the EE book - I think it's more of a wavefront effect.

great to hear buzz. already tried it, but no joy.

as i said i'd be ecstatic to see anyone's proof...post your scope shot please ;)

for those who constantly post non-sensical banter and couldn't debate their way out of a wet paper bag--- best not to venture out  :D
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 16, 2008, 04:41:23 AM
@poynt99

At this point I would have to state that no, you probably haven't..... (tried anything that is.)

This isn't some "new" occurrence.
This isn't some "rare" happening.

It happens pretty much anytime you flick a switch on.

Therefore I highly doubt that you have checked anything, by your responses.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 16, 2008, 05:07:44 AM
Hello,

Could someone tell me in very short words about SM device ?
Do I guess correctly that this device has :
- an electronic  circuit part
- an excitor coil probably of large self-induction
- a torroidal transformer probably made in such way as to step down frequency also
?

Please, give me an idea, there is so many OU devices, do you have so much time to analyze them all ? I would like to limit myself to those which are possible to replicate or understandable.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 16, 2008, 06:40:40 AM
great to hear buzz. already tried it, but no joy.

as i said i'd be ecstatic to see anyone's proof...post your scope shot please ;)

for those who constantly post non-sensical banter and couldn't debate their way out of a wet paper bag--- best not to venture out  :D

look around im sure you will find my scope shots.....  wich prove this quite clearly ....

if you havent seen my past posts ....   go  fish  read n learn than speek  :)

wanna talk of the tesla coil that returns 100 fold??  same damn thing ......  transmit to recieve

ist
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 16, 2008, 07:25:53 AM
@poynt99

At this point I would have to state that no, you probably haven't..... (tried anything that is.)

This isn't some "new" occurrence.
This isn't some "rare" happening.

It happens pretty much anytime you flick a switch on.

Therefore I highly doubt that you have checked anything, by your responses.

Paul Andrulis

Paul,

if i say i tried it but haven't seen anything, that's exactly what I mean.

tried it, collaborated with a few others that tried it also, again, no joy.

so please, rather than just saying you've seen it...show us  :D i'd love to see both yours and buzzard's scope shots.

sorry, but if no one can produce a scope shot and post it here, then based on what i and others have seen, i'm not about to easily accept that you have either. but like i said, show me your scope shot and i'll be convinced.
;)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 16, 2008, 08:12:02 AM
tesla coil talk time ....

look at the tesla coil

you got the primary...  you got the secondary ....  and you got the RE...

right

well  pluse the primary ....  collect in the secondary ...   store in a cap

release cap after first fire in primary ......

the entire time the RE IS FREE

same same

now just convert the RE to hot....    cold to hot what ya got??

ist

ill tell ya what ya got  ...

thease  are conversion devices  they are not free engery devices.......

you must invest somthing to recieve anything back...

there for they are not free engery devices
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 16, 2008, 08:24:30 AM
@poynt99

I honestly do not see how you cannot be getting results, but I will give you the fair shake of the stick, so to speak, as I definitively understand your viewpoint at this juncture in time.

I have a web-cam, but I have never made videos using it before, and frankly do not know how yet. I will.

I seriously doubt my reflexes are fast enough to simply snap a pic, in the duration of time the pulse lasts. (IE ns range)

I will try to make a short vid, then see if I can't extract a frame with the pulse, if the web-cam is fast enough. I have seen others extract pics from vids, so I know I should be able to. That is just messing with software.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 16, 2008, 08:57:41 AM
thanks Paul, i appreciate the effort you're taking.

why not drive your "kicker" with a pulse train, then you will have a periodic scope shot you can easily take with a cheap digital camera.

please let us know your setup details too, such as wire resistance (or optionally current), voltage source, switch mechanism, load (if any) etc. etc.

without going down that "suppressed science" road, i'm wondering why if this is such a common and well known occurance that is ou, it isn't already mainstream science, and why we're not already using it to power our homes  ??? how come 100's of experimenters and researchers haven't developed something from this (besides SM)?

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 16, 2008, 12:02:26 PM
@poynt99

No problem. It will take me a little while though to figure out all this web-cam software garbage. I have been needing to learn to do it anyway though, as the knowledge will come in handy later.

I will try to make as simple of setup as possible for demonstration and for simplicity of replication.

Concerning your question: the answer is simple. The problem is that you cannot ask the question if you do not want the answer.

No, I am not a conspiracy dude, but I also know the power of greed, both on an individual scale, as well as larger scales.

If \$20 in your pocket can get you killed in the wrong neighborhood, of what surprise is the protection of billions of dollars of revenue per year...........  It is stupid, senseless, sad, but unfortunately also true.

Who makes it to the top echelon of corporations? Is it not generally the most desirous of the position, whom was willing to do whatever it took to get there? (dog eat dog and all that rot) These are also the people whom are "protecting" their companies.

It is a common and well known occurrence in EE, but it is never stated as OU. Nothing ever is, or probably ever will be. OU is a bad term leaving a bad taste in too many mouths to ever be seriously accepted professionally.

In academia, professional reputations and many times research grant moneys dependent upon certain principles being true, are at stake.

In the business sector entire fortunes and even the necessity of existence for various corporations, let alone the fortunes of investors in these corporations, are at stake.

In the governmental sector, some volatile nations have a sole export being energy, and things like treaties come into play. Not to mention the fact that many of the politicians themselves may be heavily invested in energy corporations. So national security, vested interest, and economies are at stake.

Now consider again the fact that individuals can and do kill others every day for a lousy \$20, and I ask why you are surprised that suppression (generally legal and NOT lethal) of technology happens on all fronts.

Why? Put a TPU or other OU device in every home in the world. Now what is affected? Simply stated, every person in the world can now live with free energy, and never pay heating, cooling, or energy bills ever again. Guess what, vehicles follow suit. As with all techs, over time comes miniaturization and improvement in technology.  Coal, Gas, Oil, Commercial Electricity, and batteries, all become a glorious thing of the past.

You cannot charge for what is freely available, so the only ones making money off of energy are those making and selling TPU's.... Every other dime is gone.

MULTIPLE TRILLIONS of dollars are not spent on these items worldwide every year.... These trillions are making how many people money per year? How many people are now out of work, and even worse, who's job skills are completely obsolete? You do the math. Entire wars have been caused over Oil disputes.......

These level headed types have been known to throw themselves out of windows at 20 stories, because they lost their money. (Consider the stock crash leading to the great depression.)

Now, consider where the money comes from for research grants, school funding, etc, etc, etc, and consider how many areas of research now have no need for existence beyond , therefore no funding. ...... Consider how specialized training generally is now days. How many doctorates have just become either fools proven wrong, outdated, or outmoded. You already know the answer here.

No "conspiracy" need be involved, it is a simple matter of economics and history, not conspiracy.

It has always been the creed of detectives to "follow the money", as a first rule of thumb. It is true here. Most people just simply never think about it any deeper than "man I would love something like that", without considering any of the ramifications of quite literally anything other than the obvious.

I have one simple question for you concerning this level headed academia (which includes the colleges, professors, as well as all else connected). Why is it that the term "pseudoscience" applies to BRANCHES of chosen study, and not to experimental techniques used?  What happens to scientists whom venture into the realms of pseudoscience? (Do you want a list....? I can think of many just off hand.)

So. You have this sinking feeling in your stomach. What I have said is obvious, and whats worse, simple and historically accurate. Worse, you can now probably think of many obvious things even beyond what I have stated, for this is anything but comprehensive, just a simple overview.

You asked, there it is. That is why the world, academia, and everyone is not screaming for this tech, and why it is discouraged, as well as any and every tech or physical principle like it.

@everyone else

No, I am not a government operative. :D

This is just a common sense evaluation of the problem.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Robb on July 16, 2008, 02:37:45 PM
@Paul

Unfortunately you are damn right; nevertheless stay at the ball...

Greets  ;)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 16, 2008, 03:03:41 PM
I see that noone was so gentelman to explain me about current status of SM TPU device in short words.
Well, in taht case sorry, I cannot help you build one or explain how it may work. All I can say is that NOW you have a great opportunity to understand it and many free energy lost devices due to excellent findings of some independant OU researchers working on other topics ....

Please BE OPEN MINDED next time...
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on July 16, 2008, 05:37:25 PM
@forest - We've all invested months and years assembling our knowledge about SM's device, and you would like us to just regurgitate it in a few sentences? It's not that no one here is a gentleman, but what you are asking for is not so easy. We welcome you here - why not take the time to learn on your own, then see if you have something to contribute or not? Perhaps it will be you who discovers the missing key to making the device work, and we will be the ones asking you for a complete and simple explanation. Myself, I would be happy with that...
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 16, 2008, 05:42:22 PM
Paul
Quote
It is a common and well known occurrence in EE, but it is never stated as OU.

i've never seen nor heard of it (until SM) and i've been in electronics and FE research for quite a number of years

thanks for the short answer ;)  :D

there are over 13,000 members on this forum, and as far as i know, none have discovered this effect and none are discussing it. surely if it was that common and easy to detect, many would be?

reverse inductive spike has been "seen" as overunity by many many people here (and continues to be) in error, but that is not what i am talking about here. i sincerely hope that this is not what you are talking about either.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 16, 2008, 06:00:38 PM
Hello,

Could someone tell me in very short words about SM device ?
Do I guess correctly that this device has :
- an electronic  circuit part
- an excitor coil probably of large self-induction
- a torroidal transformer probably made in such way as to step down frequency also
?

Please, give me an idea, there is so many OU devices, do you have so much time to analyze them all ? I would like to limit myself to those which are possible to replicate or understandable.

forest

sorry, but you have to understand that every other day someone new comes and asks this very same question. members get tired of answering this over and over. you are not the first and you won't be the last.

- we speculate that the device does have an electronics control circuit and battery to power the circuit (not the device). 90% sure it does.
- yes it has exciter coils (control coils). probably low self-induction. coil is air core
- toroidal form yes. contains both horizontal (collector) and vertical (control) windings.
- not known if control coils are many in series or driven separately, or maybe only one single control coil
- 2 or 3 harmonic frequencies are involved, related to device diameter/circumference
- a rotating field is involved
- an overunity "kick" is involved
- output is a spikey DC
- device vibrates and makes sound when in operation
- etc.

you may check out all of the inventor's writings and more here in this thread:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2383.0.html

good luck
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 16, 2008, 06:47:00 PM
well

sorry for my intruption  ;D

i do realize this is only part of the tpu a big part yes but it is not all of it as some of them im sure are verry complex things

agin i have never ran a tpu  as i still dont know how the damn thing works properly

i have been playing with transformers with intresting results...

thought i would share that is all

l8r

ist
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 16, 2008, 07:07:06 PM
Damn discouraging that no one will give directions for seeing the "effect".

Hell, they won't even PM it to you.  Hmm - maybe they think you are some sort of CIA or MIB operative.  Man, that is the shits.  Once you get tared with that brush it's like a black cloud over your head.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 16, 2008, 08:44:07 PM
I believe you know this thread : http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1872.0.html

My idea : superimpose high current DC flow with a high frequency oscillation using magnetic field.
This can be done by many ways and some of them are now re-discovered publicly
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: zapnic on July 16, 2008, 08:53:53 PM
Paul
i've never seen nor heard of it (until SM) and i've been in electronics and FE research for quite a number of years

thanks for the short answer ;)  :D

there are over 13,000 members on this forum, and as far as i know, none have discovered this effect and none are discussing it. surely if it was that common and easy to detect, many would be?

reverse inductive spike has been "seen" as overunity by many many people here (and continues to be) in error, but that is not what i am talking about here. i sincerely hope that this is not what you are talking about either.
yes you have heard it
he he i remember my old car and cheap radio
when i turn radio on i heard loud "thump"and blow my radio fuse
he he
okey try this google "inrush current"and but car audio same line or harmonic freq
so there is lot of stuff on net about "inrush current"why? becose it's damn nigthmare for electric components
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 16, 2008, 09:15:44 PM
@Poynt99

now you can see it too:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5052.msg113256.html#msg113256
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 16, 2008, 09:30:16 PM
Just join TPU with S1R9 coil and discoveries about plasma spark discharge. You will find it of the same nature - fast oscillations superimposed on quite large lower voltage DC current.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 16, 2008, 09:35:10 PM
Just join TPU with S1R9 coil and discoveries about plasma spark discharge. You will find it of the same nature - fast oscillations superimposed on quite large lower voltage DC current.

What a very interesting response, Forest.  I'll take a look at the S1R9 coil.

EDIT:

Great observation Forest - I just looked at the S1R9 stuff.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 16, 2008, 10:00:54 PM
I think we are a few stages behind Steven Mark. In fact we are at the stage of first Tesla discoveries about high frequency currents, and this is because we had no opportunity to work with large currents and method of conversion.

We could reassume some interesting observations and comments done by Tesla and Mark.

- radiant effects are visible when there are very fast oscillations or impulses of current of quite large amperage, without amperage effects are diminished
- radiant effects are visible when the energy in system is preserved and not dissipated by electromagnetic waves
- radiant effects are different depending of matter of which radiant energy interacts , thus name 'radiant matter'
- radiant effects manifestated themselves in large electrostatic moving fields when frequency are in some range, but they are not of electrostatic nature per se

If that all statements are thru then I think Steven Mark was true about the nature of these effects - it is a wave oscillation of magnetic field and it's supposed to interact with Earth magnetic field in the way of resonance. Once the 'resonant kick' pulse is removed due to inertia oscillations are maintained during even a long period. The true nature of electricity is magnetic disturbance (and probably exist many kind of them)  - in that meaning voltage maybe directly this disturbance amplitude or amplitude gradient (like a pressure of the liquid) and current is a flow always following the voltage gradient (difference of potentials). It's worth to note that Tesla did a lot of experiments of self-sustaining oscillations , some of them remained over 3 years active.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 17, 2008, 02:41:59 AM
WTF, has everyone gone mad  :o

i just want to see Paul's (or anyone's) scope shot. i'll pass on all the other stuff goin' on here thanks ;)

i'm not even going to try to figure out what the hell grumpy is talking about in #521 above ::)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 17, 2008, 05:40:36 AM
WTF, has everyone gone mad  :o

i just want to see Paul's (or anyone's) scope shot. i'll pass on all the other stuff goin' on here thanks ;)

i'm not even going to try to figure out what the hell grumpy is talking about in #521 above ::)

I'm talking about seeing the proverbial "kick" that has so many "mystified".
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 17, 2008, 09:21:03 AM
i'm not looking for directions grumpy, don't need 'em

i just want to see  8) your guys' results, and  what everyone is on about.

if it's so simple then it's simple to show also right?, soooooooooo-----show me  :)

as far as the rest of that post...yeah whatever man.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Jon on July 18, 2008, 06:44:11 AM

This TPU is based on the 6Ã¢â‚¬Â³ model demonstrated by Steven Mark in one of his videos. The control circuit drives three lines up to 15v but currently between 7 and 12v. The control coil outputs are fed back into the controller using a simple implementation of a Tesla switch to facilitate a rotating field.A positive observation so far is that when I disconnect the input power to the cycling power (not the control circuitry) the oscillations drop about half as fast as when the control coil outputs are not connected to anything. Currently a devastating problem is with the diodes placed throughout the cycle each one incurring a .7v drop at up to 20Mhz this adds up to a lot of waste.This design attempts to provide a method of rotating a charge field around the TPU so that the input power is conserved and not used directly in the output. This should allow for a self running opertaion.

The image of the scope shows the input from one of the three control coils. The input is 7.5v square wave but notice that the scope shows about 20v peak to peak. I think this is the kick Steven Mark talked about. When only a single control coil is connected the input will show the 7v square wave and the output about 14v sign wave. Because all three control coils are connected the input is receiving a signal from the other coils.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 18, 2008, 07:10:02 AM
@jon

Good work.

Your scope shot does show the initial kick, but your system is also a damped wave. (The resonance of the "kick" dying out in the top of the square.)

I have been racking my brain to come up with a possible experiment which demonstrates only the kick itself. I think I have come up with something, and have initially tested the idea with pretty good success.....

I intend to demonstrate using one pancake coil wound CW, and a second one wound CCW both in the same plane. Both connected in parallel to directly short out any "transformer" effect, and with canceling mag fields which will cancel or "use up" and deaden out as much of the input signal and associated mag field effect as possible, leaving only the voltage artifact without resonation.

The initial test looks pretty good on scope, with an input driven only by a digital FG, it is putting in a signal at approx 9v, but the squares are deadened out to pretty much baseline with NO discernible damped wave resonance, and only the spike at the start of each wave peaking at around 14 or so Volts.

This should do, will have scope shots and diagram with instructions soon.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 18, 2008, 09:56:42 AM
Paul,

i'm a little confused  :(

you had said before that you've seen this effect many times and it is a common occurrence.

now you're devising a fancy experiment using coils to show the effect?  :o i presumed by the way you were talking that showing this effect would be a snap once you got your camera working.

sorry, my confidence just went down a little.

i expected that you would be using a piece of wire just as SM said. nothing fancy, no coils, no canceled mag fields.

where and how have you seen the effect exactly?

@buzz-ard

i thought you were going to show us your kick too  ???
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 18, 2008, 11:09:11 AM
Just two notes (untested):
- do 'make and break'  at the peak top to produce undamped oscillation
- avoid so called back EMF, if you build lenz-free device you will find something

I do not state that I know exactly what to do, these are only suggestions. I see back EMF as a waste not OU
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on July 18, 2008, 03:36:44 PM
@jon - Excellent! You have to build to learn, and it looks as if you have taken that to heart. I'm a little curious about your circuit board - it doesn't appear to be a prototyping backplane, but instead a manufactured design. No matter - the build looks good. Keep it up!

@poynt - I don't believe I said I would post on this. My bench has been inaccessible for about two months so I haven't posted much of anything lately. (Air conditioning has been out, and in Texas that's a real problem.) But I'm anxious to get back into things, and will post some relevant scope shots soon as I'm back in the saddle. Kicks really aren't that unusual. Empirically, it's easy to experience - just turn on a stereo with the volume up and listen for the thump.

@Paul - Sorry I'm not in there with you. For Poynt's proof-of-concept, try a simple coil with at least 50 turns or more, and hit it hard. I've found that the kick is easier to see with a longer conductor. It happens too fast in just a short straight section of wire, and a bit of delay (or should I say the amount of time the pulse is in the wire) seems helpful for the scope to pick it up.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 18, 2008, 04:41:01 PM
@ Kicks really aren't that unusual. Empirically, it's easy to experience - just turn on a stereo with the volume up and listen for the thump.

that's just inrush current. a common thing, but not ou.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 18, 2008, 05:00:14 PM
that's just inrush current. a common thing, but not ou.

@pont   you make me lol

what might the inrush current be?

ist
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on July 18, 2008, 05:04:28 PM
@poynt - I think that's the concern Paul expressed, that we're talking about inrush current, which we're not. It's the make & break events that cause the kick. On the make event, the inrush comes right after the kick. On the break event, the kick happens at the moment the circuit is broken. Tesla speaks to this also, emphasizing the importance of super-fast drop times.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 18, 2008, 05:46:50 PM
and what does super fast drop times imply ??

not a cap  ;)

ist
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 18, 2008, 05:54:04 PM
@poynt - I think that's the concern Paul expressed, that we're talking about inrush current, which we're not. It's the make & break events that cause the kick. On the make event, the inrush comes right after the kick. On the break event, the kick happens at the moment the circuit is broken. Tesla speaks to this also, emphasizing the importance of super-fast drop times.

inrush currents, as far as my understanding goes, only happen when non-aircore cores are used. so keep it all air core and inrush current should not be present or a concern. if i'm wrong, then i'm listening.

@ist--pfo
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on July 18, 2008, 06:22:01 PM
@poynt - On that I agree with you. Air cores have been the only ones that have given me any results worth pursuing while researching the TPU. Metal cores seem to dampen the kick effect while promoting inrush (I didn't even post my Renerator build attempt, the results were so pitiful). But the kick and some inrush happens in any circuit when power is applied. There has been much engineering devoted to bringing up power slowly to mitigate the effects of both the kick and the inrush. For instance, recall Tesla's work with DC generators, where men were getting killed when they brought them online. I've seen several solid-state examples as well. The one that stands out most in my memory employed a modified form of 0V switching, designed so that appreciable current flow was delayed until well after the switch (transistor) closed. The result was that power trickled at first then ramped up to operating level over several dozen milliseconds, and the failure rate of the application went way down. This approach is probably old hat now, but seemed novel at the time.

@Paul - You've built Tesla coils, right? (I have not.) From a safety perspective, do you power them up all at once, or bring them up incrementally?

Added after original post: I think many folks may see the initial voltage spike caused by transformer action and believe it is the kick. It is not. The kick is much faster and weaker. It shows up my scope very faintly and only in the smallest time divisions, so far. SM hinted that it's hard to see, but he's right - it is there.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 18, 2008, 07:14:50 PM
@poynt99 and Buzz

Let me explain a little better my current understanding and it may clear up a little confusion. I think the kick has to do with voltage leading the current on a cold circuit. However, I USED to think it a magnetic field effect, as do many others still. However, I do not think it a magnetic field effect, but probably an electric field effect. I cannot state for sure, as I am guessing at this point. However, what I am seeing ties closely to Loners statement of a "pressure" wave front (or voltage in this case). The "kicks" also tend to caused a damped wave resonance in an improperly tuned circuit, which is what had me fooled for a long time. The effects tend to mask the event.

However, I do know that the "kicks" are easily reproducible, but from my own semi-skeptical viewpoint, I also know that the other scope shots I could produce, excuses would abound about what is being seen.

Almost all of these possible excuses have to do with the magnetic field. Therefore, cancel the field, cancel the excuses.

Another major excuse is "transformer action". Remove the possibility of transformer action, no excuse.

Another major excuse is resonance action. Remove the possibility of resonance, no excuse.

Otherwise, I could post scope shots all day long of the effect in various forms, and we would hear nothing but "It is this or that". Reproducing the kicks are simple. Reproducing the kicks where someone cannot easily disregard them is not necessarily so easy.

Now Poynt, I am not saying you would do this, but I know there are hundreds here whom would, and I don't feel like any more senseless arguments from them. What is worse, I know there will be even with the experiment I have designed.  :-[

If anyone sees exceptions to the rule they would like to see canceled out as a possibility, now is the time as I will be doing the scope work/ pics Sunday. (I have been having to work on a stinking car, this afternoon I have to replace a starter, and tomorrow is the sabbath.)

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 18, 2008, 07:40:20 PM
@Buzz

Concerning the longer piece of wire.....

I have noticed that too. I wonder why?

I have seen as well that just having a longer piece of wire gives a greater rise in voltage to the kick effect. However, this is contrary to what my understanding and imaginations yields.

Why greater voltage with a longer wire, since it is not an induction effect, nor is it a resonant effect, though it can cause resonation? ? ? ? ? ( Does resistance play a part? ) Because it can modify magnetic fields, it stands to reason that it is tied hand in hand with the magnetic field, which yields me to tentatively think either electric field, or a different moving charge effect.

This is puzzling, but I enjoy solving puzzles. The more difficult the better in my book.

I have also noticed that there is a relationship to the amount of voltage rise in a given wire to the amount of impressed voltage at a given signal frequency. It is not linear, as with higher impressed voltages comes a much higher voltage spike. It is not linear, it is a mathematical ratio of some kind. Much later, I need to devise a set of experiments where I can define this ratio to a tentative formula.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on July 18, 2008, 08:12:13 PM
Let me explain a little better my current understanding and it may clear up a little confusion. I think the kick has to do with voltage leading the current on a cold circuit. However, I USED to think it a magnetic field effect, as do many others still. However, I do not think it a magnetic field effect, but probably an electric field effect. I cannot state for sure, as I am guessing at this point. However, what I am seeing ties closely to Loners statement of a "pressure" wave front (or voltage in this case). The "kicks" also tend to caused a damped wave resonance in an improperly tuned circuit, which is what had me fooled for a long time. The effects tend to mask the event.

IMHO, I do not believe it is a direct magnetic effect either, as kick and inrush occur in circuits in space systems (don't ask). SM's quote from the EE book about kicks was composed before the 70s, and tying the effect to the earth's magnetic field was a convenient explanation at the time. The kick only occurs in a cold circuit, as a warm circuit implies that there is already a pathway established. A warm circuit when pulsed exhibits a surge but no kick. In a cold circuit, there is an induced magnetic component as the fields around the conductor are established and atoms are entrained, just before flow can be measured - this from quantum physics. Also from quantum physics, a small number of 'looser' electrons will entrain more easily than average and start things moving before the coming inrush - this is SM's "kick" and Loner's "wavefront", and can be interpreted as 'free energy' because there was no traditional work done to cause the movement of these electrons. In a broader statement, the kick we see is the establishment of a voltage environment that joules can be transmitted through.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 18, 2008, 08:40:27 PM
IMHO, I do not believe it is a direct magnetic effect either, as kick and inrush occur in circuits in space systems (don't ask). SM's quote from the EE book about kicks was composed before the 70s, and tying the effect to the earth's magnetic field was a convenient explanation at the time. The kick only occurs in a cold circuit, as a warm circuit implies that there is already a pathway established. A warm circuit when pulsed exhibits a surge but no kick. In a cold circuit, there is an induced magnetic component as the fields around the conductor are established and atoms are entrained, just before flow can be measured - this from quantum physics. Also from quantum physics, a small number of 'looser' electrons will entrain more easily than average and start things moving before the coming inrush - this is SM's "kick" and Loner's "wavefront", and can be interpreted as 'free energy' because there was no traditional work done to cause the movement of these electrons. In a broader statement, the kick we see is the establishment of a voltage environment that joules can be transmitted through.

I'm not EE and don't know much about that kick but a magnetic nature and Earth magnetic field as a source or cause seem resonable for me. I recall also SM talking about inertia and this would perfectly explain why this effect manifests itself only in cold circuit. I have no experience in that, please explain - this kick is something hidden behind so called back EMF which occurs always from my experience when pulsing a large self-induction coil like car ignition coil ?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on July 18, 2008, 08:41:28 PM
@ Paul - I believe the difference with longer wire is the number of 'loose' electrons present. I, too, have seen that the effect is greater with higher voltages, and there are different voltage levels in each build where the kick shows inordinate gain or little at all. I believe this is in part due to what appears to be a resonance effect but is actually a function of how long it takes the pulse to propagate to the other end coupled with make/break efficiency. Sharp on + tiny ontime + sharp off = maximum kick from both events. SM trimmed the length of his wires to 'tune' them, reducing the amount of time the pulse was on the wire and thus the time to return to a 'cold' state, until it matched the coil arrangement.

How to integrate the effect with suitable coil windings to harness and amplify the resulting output is where I am falling short. Early on in lurking here, I wished for calculations that might tell us the minimum number of turns/wire composition/voltage required. Otto did some work in this direction early on and posted it on the forum (soldering wire!). The necessary calculations would be fairly routine quadratics that could predict the effects of a given change in a given build, but alas, until we can produce something that can be routinely replicated the formulae cannot be constructed.

Until then, perhaps we could determine kick potential in varying lengths and gauges of wire, not unlike Otto did, then try to figure out the number of turns and coil dimensions to produce resonance for the kick frequency. I think I'll spend some time on this soon as I can fire the bench back up.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on July 18, 2008, 08:48:09 PM
@forest - In those terms, there won't be any back EMF until there is flow, and the kick happens before the flow.

But I am open-minded and eager to learn. Both SM and Stan Deyo relate that there is a difference between the earth's hemispheres that affects these toroidal devices. SM overcame it somehow, but I don't know about Deyo.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 18, 2008, 08:54:01 PM
Thank you for explanation. You mentioned that this effect occurs only in cold circuit. What do you mean by cold circuit ? A state when vacuum tubes have not heated enough filaments ?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Jon on July 18, 2008, 08:55:26 PM
@buzzard

I'm a little curious about your circuit board - it doesn't appear to be a prototyping backplane, but instead a manufactured design

I etched the board becuase there is too much to put on a breadboard and I find perf boards take way too long to solder and they always end up ugly. I can post more details but a new improved design is in order.

@all

I would like to know if anyone is interested in working on a group platform for TPU testing. If we can design a board that can be used by lots of people then we don't all have to recreate the same builting blocks.

It could consist of a back plate board that defines pins to connect to the TPU as well as interchangable TPU controller cards and computer interface cards. As a goup we can each have one of these back plates and work on new controller cards as we learn more. We could have the boards proffessionally made with a cost savings if several people are interested. Having a shared platform should make communicating easier as well.

To start the design I mock up a high level block diagram of each functional component I want. The boards and cards I have made will cost a bit though about \$75 in parts alone.

Please let me know if you are interested.

Thanks

http://freeenergygroup.com/

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: duff on July 18, 2008, 09:33:27 PM
@poynt99 and Buzz

Let me explain a little better my current understanding and it may clear up a little confusion. I think the kick has to do with voltage leading the current on a cold circuit. However, I USED to think it a magnetic field effect, as do many others still. However, I do not think it a magnetic field effect, but probably an electric field effect. I cannot state for sure, as I am guessing at this point. However, what I am seeing ties closely to Loners statement of a "pressure" wave front (or voltage in this case). The "kicks" also tend to caused a damped wave resonance in an improperly tuned circuit, which is what had me fooled for a long time. The effects tend to mask the event.

However, I do know that the "kicks" are easily reproducible, but from my own semi-skeptical viewpoint, I also know that the other scope shots I could produce, excuses would abound about what is being seen.

Almost all of these possible excuses have to do with the magnetic field. Therefore, cancel the field, cancel the excuses.

Another major excuse is "transformer action". Remove the possibility of transformer action, no excuse.

Another major excuse is resonance action. Remove the possibility of resonance, no excuse.

Otherwise, I could post scope shots all day long of the effect in various forms, and we would hear nothing but "It is this or that". Reproducing the kicks are simple. Reproducing the kicks where someone cannot easily disregard them is not necessarily so easy.

Now Poynt, I am not saying you would do this, but I know there are hundreds here whom would, and I don't feel like any more senseless arguments from them. What is worse, I know there will be even with the experiment I have designed.  :-[

If anyone sees exceptions to the rule they would like to see canceled out as a possibility, now is the time as I will be doing the scope work/ pics Sunday. (I have been having to work on a stinking car, this afternoon I have to replace a starter, and tomorrow is the sabbath.)

Paul Andrulis

Please try to eliminate the possibility of the kicks being reflections from the end of the line.

Reflection from a SOFT boundary having the polarity the same as the incident wave.

Reflection from a HARD boundary having an inverted polarity.

-Duff
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on July 18, 2008, 10:00:05 PM
@duff - Excellent suggestion. The simplest kick test I've seen anyone mention here is shorting the terminals of a 9V battery with a length of wire. A fast diode on the positive terminal should prevent scope artifacts caused by reflection if any are present, no?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 18, 2008, 10:13:11 PM
@duff - Excellent suggestion. The simplest kick test I've seen anyone mention here is shorting the terminals of a 9V battery with a length of wire. A fast diode on the positive terminal should prevent scope artifacts caused by reflection if any are present, no?

May I ask : is this 'kick' supposed to manifest itself only once when circuit is started ? Does it have such behaviour:
'kick' occurs if somebody starts circuit operation for the first time , then any subsequent restart of circuti does not generate this effect unless there is a some time period between each runs ? In other words circuit seems to have some inertia in generating this effect ?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on July 18, 2008, 10:29:28 PM
@forest - There must be a time in between for the circuit to grow 'cold' again. Kicks occur with both the application of power and the removal of it. But I don't think that inertia has anything to do with it.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: duff on July 18, 2008, 10:50:18 PM
@duff - Excellent suggestion. The simplest kick test I've seen anyone mention here is shorting the terminals of a 9V battery with a length of wire. A fast diode on the positive terminal should prevent scope artifacts caused by reflection if any are present, no?

Here is a simple TDR circuit which I'm posting ONLY as a reference for observing reflections.

-Duff

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: duff on July 18, 2008, 10:51:26 PM
(http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6448/tdrfig36cz8.jpg)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 18, 2008, 11:02:10 PM
@forest - There must be a time in between for the circuit to grow 'cold' again. Kicks occur with both the application of power and the removal of it. But I don't think that inertia has anything to do with it.

are both kicks generated always or that is diferrent for AC based and DC based circuits ? with removal of power does it occur only for DC powered circuits or for anyone ?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on July 18, 2008, 11:49:55 PM
@duff - Thanks for circuit post - I understand what you are communicating. I had asked on the forum awhile back about something to put between my scope and the subject - this is what I was looking for.

@forest - All electrical flow is DC in nature. Coherent AC does not occur naturally. Domestic AC is just DC that flips polarity 60 times a second, with voltage ramping up and down in a sine pattern. Measurable kicks like we want come from sharp on-off pulses, in a square pattern. In the TPU, multiplication of kick voltage results in convertible amperage. I think. Maybe.

Again, folks, I'm no authority. I'm only sharing my understanding of things. Please correct me anywhere I'm off the mark.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 19, 2008, 12:16:58 AM
sheesh!

no wonder these threads end up going in circles

a] do not overcomplicate and confuse things
b] stick to the facts and don't make up your own (no proof whatsoever SM "tuned" by trimming for eg.)

look guys, pulse a damn piece of wire---that's it fini!

no excuses, just show what you got, that's it. you've seen something, ok, so show it.

how the hell do you know that you are seeing kicks in the first place if you're now saying that they are buried or hidden behind some other wave form or part of it, and must now devise a way to leave only the kick visible?

what the hell kind of logic is that?

no frequencies, no coils, no canceled fields. if you do anything other than this, then you've got nothin' imo period.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 19, 2008, 12:28:08 AM
Just because you see an oscillation or higher voltage does not mean it is the "kick" that SM spoke.  Part of it is where you see it and the other part is how you caused it.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on July 19, 2008, 12:31:02 AM
I agree about over-complicating things. These discussions have all been done before. Anything I say regarding SM came from overunity.com - I make up nothing.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 19, 2008, 12:36:44 AM
Anything I say regarding SM came from overunity.com - I make up nothing.

yes that's exactly the problem--

if the facts didn't come from SM himself, then it's shit.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 20, 2008, 07:48:18 AM
@poynt99

If you dont wish to see, why ask....

The simple truth for the necessity of such an experiment is simply to remove excuse. I could show you scope shots all day long, and would hear nothing but "but it really isn't it is.....". Quite literally a thousand excuses for anything which can be demonstrated.

Why?

The person whom witnesses has already made up their mind that they are right. At this point they will decide that anyone else speaking against their ideas HAS TO BE wrong.

A person can con themself into believing almost anything when they believe themselves automatically correct. That is how someone can read a Tesla patent, then assume they understand him, when they deny exactly what he states clearly in the same patent, thinking they have a "deeper understanding" than their own idol. That is how a hard core scientist can relegate conflicting data into phrases such as "margin of error". That is how some dude in a trailer park sees a light in the sky, and firmly swears he has been contacted by Venusions. It is the same modis operandi (mode of operation) in all cases.

The simple fact is this, I do not feel like arguing over this. If you have already decided that they don't exist, then fine. Be honest and state it outright. If you think you know what they are, then fine, tell us all. Just be honest, is all I ask. I hate worthless superiority games.

I am being honest with you and everyone else, calling it quite literally as I understand it. If my perception changes then so does what I speak to match. However, I am not in the business of "proving" anything to you or anyone else. I try to communicate my understanding as clear as possible, that is all I can do. If someone doesn't wish to believe me, then fine.

I do not have anything to "prove", nor any desire to necessarily "prove" anything. I enjoy being able to share what I have learned. Believe it or not, a valid observation by you will cause me to check my own observations and understandings, as I also enjoy learning.

Time always is the great equalizer, and I don't always claim to be right on anything, let alone everything. Many may assume this, but that is their own personal problem.

The question is this, do you wish to see "kicks" or not? Just be honest with me. If you cannot grant me this, then it becomes evident that you have no wish to learn anything I may have to share with you, which means that communication between us is then just a complete waste of time and effort. I will simply stop communicating with such.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 20, 2008, 08:10:23 AM
@poynt99

If you dont wish to see, why ask....

[snip]

The question is this, do you wish to see "kicks" or not? Just be honest with me. If you cannot grant me this, then it becomes evident that you have no wish to learn anything I may have to share with you, which means that communication between us is then just a complete waste of time and effort. I will simply stop communicating with such.

Paul Andrulis

relax Paul. i am questioning your logic to perform some fancy experiment. i'm not saying now nor did i imply before that i do not wish to see your kick scope shots, i most certainly do.

if you feel it necessary to perform a fancy experiment to show the kick then i won't argue about it. i'm just saying i'd rather see what you were seeing when you exclaimed "aha, i've got kicks!"

i'm trying to learn also, and maybe my experiment was faulty.

i also think you and buzz-ard might want to be a little less nonchalant about saying the kicks are everywhere. if they were, there would be 100's of videos showing them by now, and you wouldn't have to devise any special field-canceling setup in order to show them.

show me what you saw and i won't argue, i'll just take it for what it is, i promise ;)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 20, 2008, 08:34:24 AM
@poynt99

I can understand that. I will post the results.

It is just that ---> I <--- ( me, myself, this dude ;D ) was making those very excuses. It took such an experiment to even convince me, and if it took that much for me, then why less for anyone else?

Many undoubtedly have much more learning and experience than I, therefore even more difficult experiments might be necessary for such. The original experiment which showed me something common being what was referenced as "kicks", was this very coil setup, which I built to experiment with someone else's concept on a different subject. What happens when a term used in the 50's and earlier (kicks) is given another term in use today? You will "see" the understanding as you have learned, and still look for that which is already in front of you, and always has been, which you already "know".

A square wave is technically worthless unless it can be smoothed first, otherwise you gain a distorted signal. However, what is truly causing the distortion to begin with. Add a semi-archaic technical reference to a "kick", and guess what, something common becomes something complicated and special.......

Of what surprise whatsoever to anyone is there that a magnetic field can affect electrons? (The actual question is was the source correct about the influence being the earths magnetic field.)

Now, concerning people quoting or misquoting SM or Tesla either one.... :D

( I had fallen into that trap by reading the "understanding" of SM here, before reading SM's own quotes. Nothing "mystical" there, but I find it amazing how many quote part, and ignore what they do not like. Do not get me wrong, nothing is "complete" there either. )

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 20, 2008, 08:52:41 AM
IMHO, I do not believe it is a direct magnetic effect either, as kick and inrush occur in circuits in space systems (don't ask). SM's quote from the EE book about kicks was composed before the 70s, and tying the effect to the earth's magnetic field was a convenient explanation at the time. The kick only occurs in a cold circuit, as a warm circuit implies that there is already a pathway established. A warm circuit when pulsed exhibits a surge but no kick. In a cold circuit, there is an induced magnetic component as the fields around the conductor are established and atoms are entrained, just before flow can be measured - this from quantum physics. Also from quantum physics, a small number of 'looser' electrons will entrain more easily than average and start things moving before the coming inrush - this is SM's "kick" and Loner's "wavefront", and can be interpreted as 'free energy' because there was no traditional work done to cause the movement of these electrons. In a broader statement, the kick we see is the establishment of a voltage environment that joules can be transmitted through.

the EE book quote you are referring to, is that the tube amp book or something else? in the tube amp book i am sure they are referring to a physical kick rather than any type of electrical one.

atoms and electrons are entrained by the magnetic field? is this grumpy's "alignment", and Bearden's "relaxation time"?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on July 20, 2008, 05:26:34 PM
@poynt - The EE book I mentioned is the very one SM cited regarding the kick, and the keyword I recall was "valves", so yes, that would have been the tube amplifier tome. Someone here on the forum found the book and posted a scan of the relevant page a couple of months ago. The way I read it, that page was not talking about a kinetic manifestation, but instead about the electrical phenomenon the author termed "kick". Unless I read it wrong, which is always a possibility.

As to Grumpy's "alignment" and Bearden's "relaxation time", I can't say positively that they are referring to the same thing I am - it would seem so from the terms chosen. The broader concepts are both valid, but I haven't examined either of their statements that closely.

@duff - It's been many years since I was in a classroom, so I've had to really scrape the edges of my memory to recall much about reflection and I haven't had sufficient time yet to research it properly again. But the more I think about it the more I'm convinced we're not seeing reflection, as the kick appears on the leading edge of the pulse event. If memory serves, reflection happens after an event and may superimpose itself in such a way as to appear to be part of a pulse train. But we aren't necessarily talking about pulse trains here - a single pulse will show a kick. For it to be otherwise, we'd be looking at Einstein's "spooky action at a distance" and I don't think we're working in that realm.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 20, 2008, 06:14:35 PM
actually they discuss two things that cause filament failure, one being the temperature cycling, and the other the kick.

the "kick" they are referring to is the physical movement of the filament due to the inrush current / earth field interaction.

so sorry to throw a wrench into your gears, but that's what they're saying. it nicely adds to the mystery of what SM means by "kick".  8)

@all, so if you've studied your SM well, you would know that SM refers to the kick as being two things:

a} a physical movement (already explained above)
and/or
b} a slight increase in current

notice that in b} it is current, not voltage (potential) that increases.

potential is just that, it does no work. i can make high voltage potential spikes all day, but unless i have a load attached, no work is done. if there is electron flow (i.e. current), then there is work being done.

note that SM never mentioned voltage when referring to kicks.

so Paul, you might want to revise your thinking here:
@zapnic

The principle SM was attempting to get across is a simple one, really. When electricity first flows in a circuit, you have the "inrush current". This current should technically flow at the same voltage as originally applied, yet it gains a sudden spike in voltage, at the same current. This boost is attributed to interaction with the earth's magnetic field.

In essence you put in 5V @ 100ma, and for a small fraction of a second, you see a spike of say 20v @ 100ma. For that fraction of a second you see over-unity. The sharper the input pulse and the cleaner the signal, the higher the initial voltage spike and, viola, the greater the factor of over-unity.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 20, 2008, 06:24:41 PM
@ pont99

i do like your last post :)

i guess i have seen the gyro effect in a single wire then ...the little phyisical movement ......

i have mesured amparge  ie current flow.... :)

ist
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 20, 2008, 07:27:02 PM
This is my comment on other thread but I think here would be also adequate to ask. Maybe you will find something interesting and involve that topic into proper knowledge and use in TPU.

"Searching among Tesla articles,patents, lectures I cannot find if and when he used DC like high frequency currents. All what is described are AC currents of high frequency. Their usage for artificial illumination is described in details while DC impulses of high frequency are only mentioned. Yet I believe Tesla used them for his wireless transmission.

It is a known fact that he first thought that produces waves/field is sent thought the rarefied  air and maybe it can work to the some extend but not as great as thought the ground.He maybe thought that this field is electrostatic in nature and only later discovered by experiments and notes from others (Stubblefield - Earth currents) that it was a flawed theory.

While electromagnetic field is not dependant on any external field someone would speculate about other waves...dependent on a medium to propagate...

One may imagine a  scalar pure magnetic wave in Earth magnetic field.They exists, many types - some of them are described by Alfven
but probably not all. Seems that this information is also suppressed.
I can imagine a wave which is propagating in steps - first ahead then return back. If it find another forcing impulse right in the proper time when coming back  it takes additional momentum and goes further and becomes stronger.
Of course it's clear that such a wave cannot be propelled by alternating force nor it is electromagnetic in nature.

Now  someone should explain why it is a rare effect , how to produce it, why we are not observing it. It's beyond my knowledge, I could only speculate that our worst enemy which hides that effects is electromagnetic radiation. Tesla had spoken about it  - his circuits  generated only 10% of electromagnetic radiation 95% of energy was preserved and used.

My advice : Eliminate electromagnetic radiation - you should see a plenty of miracle effects.

I can also speculate (based on my minimal knowledge) that electric part of electromagnetic wave is the key which limits those effects.

Maybe that's why Tesla did a break immediately at the peak of current change ? That produce magnetic kick, but not powering circuit during lowering edge of pulse must have peculiar advantage which I don't understand - maybe this half of the wave is the source of electric compound of electromagnetic wave ?

That's all. Now I hope that you explain me the rest ;-)"
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: slapper on July 20, 2008, 08:00:53 PM
Some years ago (well, okay - over 25 years) I worked for a contract design and manufacturing firm. They design and manufactured controls for the consumer appliance market and automotive industry. I built a test jig that simulated what the electronics might be exposed to in extreme real world conditions. The jig ended up be used for this test for almost every product we designed. The transformer is an isolation transformer of about 7 to 10 amps (going by memory so maybe 15 amps) and a very healthy relay was as well.

This thing would present some very significant spikes at the device under test.

Take care.

nap
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 21, 2008, 01:52:26 AM
@all

Here is the data:

I want all to know that I welcome critiques of the interpretations I will provide.

Below is the diagram of the coil, number annotated:

(http://www.randallsteward.com/TPU/pauldude000/kick/CoilSchematic.jpg)

1. Is the signal ground and probe ground connection
2. Is the signal input and probe connection
3. Is the inner pancake coil, 14 turns CW
4. Is the outer pancake coil, 14 turns CCW

Below is the shot of the coil. Being a cheapskate, I used the bottom of a wicker basket as a form. The coils are wound just like the basket was initially woven. I know, cheap, but hey! Notice the probe and FG connections.

(http://www.randallsteward.com/TPU/pauldude000/kick/CoilShot.jpg)

Below is the shot of the FG being used, with clear readings of the settings. Square wave, frequency around 80Khz, input voltage at 9.8v connected to coil (under load. FG puts out a max of 10v).

(http://www.randallsteward.com/TPU/pauldude000/kick/FGShot.jpg)

The two scope shots below are taken at 5v/div and .2v/div (two tenths volt). Both at 2u (two micro) seconds.

This is a shot showing the kicks. I couldn't do much about the glare, sorry. All pics taken in daytime. I did however set the backlight so the divisions are viewable in the pic. Notice that the spiked voltage, the "kick" I am talking about which I believe SM is referencing, is around 12V.    The waveform is much to low of voltage to really register on this V/div setting. This is at 5v/div and

(http://www.randallsteward.com/TPU/pauldude000/kick/5vPerDiv.jpg)

This pic is to show the lack of resonation of the voltage spikes in the unused waveform energy. The rest is being used in the manufacture of opposing fields in the coil.

(http://www.randallsteward.com/TPU/pauldude000/kick/2TNHvPerDiv.jpg)

Conclusions:

You will notice that the spike is at such high voltage of around 12V  , even though the voltage of the waveform has dropped across the coil to 2 tenths of one volt. 12v is extremely high when the input signal has dropped from approx 10v to .2 volt. This difference in voltage does get much higher, with higher voltages applied than is used in this experiment.

The magnetic field developed is upon amperage, but the power usable to the entire system is a combination of Voltage or potential AND current. P=IV. For those instances, the power is whatever amperage is fluctuating through the coil at the applied signal, TIMES this extra voltage, but for only the duration of the spike. With just a spike here or there, this is for all purposes negligable. Yet if enough are generated fast enough......... (I forgot to measure the amperage, I am sorry, but you can now measure yourself to satisfy your own curiosity on this.)

Not too much difference in practice to the energy of a disruptive spark gap, in that a certain amount of energy is given to a system, but this energy is first contained, allowed to build up, and then conducted very rapidly, which can yield effective outputs in the multiple kilowatts with but a small wattage input, when considering the amount of amperage at a given voltage is flowing ALL AT ONCE OVER A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, instead of trickling through the system at a steady rate.

This small extra wattage available from the "kick" to the system will appear to be a huge gain if repeated at a rapid enough rate, is my current understanding.

@poynt99

Concerning the reference, could be. I just don't know. However, I do know that potential plays a large part in work. Voltages changes in any form do affect magnetic field strength in any coil. You already know this. The principle of an inductance coil fed through a resistance with 1A at 12v, then at 1A at 120v.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 21, 2008, 04:26:12 AM
apologies Paul,

i'm not smart enough to figure out people's drawings sometimes, i prefer standard electrical drawings.

is this your setup in schematic form?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 21, 2008, 04:51:40 AM
Approximately poynt, I drew using paint as my schematic program sucks for some applications. ( ExpressSch ) I used the circles to denote inner and outer windings.

Shoot, I was in too much of a hurry, sorry.

After posting this, I spent the entire remainder of the afternoon using a chainsaw to lop up downed trees and limbs in the shelter belt from the last tornado we had come this way. I STILL have around 12 to 24 more hours worth of cutting to do....  :-[ I am glad it skipped the house though.  When I heard the scream of air leaving the house, the basement door slamming shut, and brush hitting the side walls of the house, I thought for a second I had problems.

Amazingly enough, after examination of the belt, it looks to have hit the belt, then jumped. One tab of one shingle was the only damage to the house, though one corner of the belt looks positively nuked.

I am not going to complain.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 21, 2008, 05:01:28 AM
glad to hear the house got away unscathed. chopping wood is good for you, also good time for contemplation ;)

so, i could tell you what is going on with your circuit and explain why you're seeing what you're seeing, but i promised to keep my mouth shut  ;D

maybe someone else will know it too...let's see
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 21, 2008, 05:08:51 AM
@Poynt99

When you build your coil, also get two small neodium magnets and a piece of string. Connect the neodiums in series , with the thread in the center. (N/S-Thread-N/S) Suspend this approx., in the middle of the coil. Start at one hertz and progress upwards to around twenty hertz. These seem mainly to be low frequency effects, at least in my coil.

The effects of the field are interesting.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 21, 2008, 05:18:08 AM
glad to hear the house got away unscathed. chopping wood is good for you, also good time for contemplation ;)

so, i could tell you what is going on with your circuit and explain why you're seeing what you're seeing, but i promised to keep my mouth shut  ;D

maybe someone else will know it too...let's see

PM me then. :D I don't have a particular axe to grind, am not interested in magic or fairy-tales, so I doubt that you will offend me with your perspective. You can think in the box, heck even out of the box, I dont really mind. (Just keep the box in sight please. ;D )

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 21, 2008, 06:16:35 AM
Look like you're differentiating.

kick is an oscillation - something you would not expect to see.   A flutter or flurry of activity.

You need more voltage, by the way.  Tesla would start with 10k to 20k - that's gettin' 'r dun...couple few hundred at least.

Kinda like Bob Boyce put it - you push nature and she pushes back - HARD!
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 21, 2008, 06:53:29 AM
yep she does push......

you all let me know when i can show you spinn or orbit or traped electricty

it has a constant ossolation form round 300vac - 0  vac and lasts for a verry long time from a pluse or 2  ;)

does it rotate? when traped in a coil?

what do you think ...

lol

did i put magnets on a string did they follow or repell  the osc voltage around the ring   lol

of course they did.....

so why does this work ? how long does this effect last ??

well i had electricty traped b4 in all copper coil collector and control coil for over 2 day i suspect it will last forever this way .....

emery and ed same same .....

i showed gk last year when i figuered this out ....  this infact is teslas secreat  ;) ;)

the verry cool part was this after my cap drained right out it was instantlly refilled  ;D  also ....   after some time i could not read it on my cheep meter i thought it had quit operation but in fact it had NOT!!!!   just cuz i could not read it did not mean it stoped

also i HAVE SCOPED THIS WAVE  i will garentee all of you it is a wave that has never been posted public as of yet ....

it is a verry mysterous wave ... a busy 1 .... ;D

i called it orbit i also at the same time when i scoped it i discovered how to speed it up and slow it down  ;D

how do i know i could control it ??   i watched it on my scope ...  oh  i placed a tuned coil above the rotating one  a tuned coil meaning a secondary tuned by length to 7.5 hz 131.2 ' there bouts 22 ga solid 4 " collector  no controls wound on it   did it pull form the source ??

of cource it did i had a ac voltage of 7.5 v  ;D

nope no vids schems or nuttin  reverse engineer this  :D ;D  :P

ist

what the hell is in my sig anyways??  whos words are those....  where did i find em and who the hell edited my sig .... lol .... hummm there is somthing missing in my sig ...  i know damn well i typed it word 4 word  ;D  the last sentence or 2 are missing why and what did they talk about ....   what pattend was it??
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 21, 2008, 06:59:37 AM
@Grumpy

You know an interesting effect? There was a time, when they were building what are now called "antique engines", or popularly "hit - and - miss". Interesting things with big flywheels. They had batteries, but at the time, they had a very simple means of firing the spark to ignite the gasoline. It was called a "kick" coil.

What was a "kick" coil? A simple solid iron core solenoid, with a single winding of many, many turns.

By itself, nothing but a waste of battery juice, a big magnet.

What was amazing is that when points were placed so as to make and break the connection, without a capacitor to drain the excess voltage off, this coil could attain 5000v or more upon breaking of the points, so a timing system was devised which would make the contact before the spark was needed, fully energize the coil, then the massive spike at break which would fire the plug.... We also see this at the strike of an arc in an arc welder.

Thousands of volts from a low voltage source has always been a current phenomena from a lower voltage source.

Now, "Kick" coils did not have to be an iron core solenoid. They could also be an air core solenoid, even at higher voltages.........

Electrons have both mass and inertia. Try to stop them or start them suddenly, and they react.

Why don't they still use them? Kick coils (at least the iron cored ones) get HOT after enough use.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 21, 2008, 07:12:40 AM
in my 4 mot m tpu my mots work as kick coils .... 4 of em controlled many ways first a rotary switch 2nd reed switches and a magnetic wheel

they charge up caps i must short the cap on the out put to be of any use ...it should be fired then shorted right away this is for a lower voltage application other wise stick to over 1000v and it will self fire when the cap is full through a spark gap .... to the out put ....

ist

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 21, 2008, 08:07:30 AM
Mainly, I am trying to point out a simple fact to everyone. Terms which were common then, are not common now. Definitions which were applied then, are not necessarily the same now.

When asked to define his consideration of what was "high frequency" by his lawyer, Teslas reply was in the low/mid Khz range. Even 20 years later, this definition was outmoded, and is now ridiculous. Heck, our current band range in common use today is already outmoded in practice! (How is VHF, which is in the mid/high megahertz range, considered "Very High Frequency", when 2- 5 GIGA<--hertz is now in common use?)

Tesla designed what was commonly called a "death ray", which has a common definition today..... a particle accelerator. To say that what either Tesla OR SM was trying to say is "....", you HAVE to understand BOTH the lingo they were using, and try to understand what they were thinking. WHY they did this or that, to accomplish this or that goal.

Quit trying to place your or someone else's PERSONAL interpretation upon what they were saying, so that you can actually understand what they were saying!!!!!!!!!!!!! Accept that they were speaking the truth as they understood it, using the language they were accustomed to! Simple!

If I didn't know better, which I have to wonder sometimes if I do, I would say too much has changed into some form of a religion, rather than a science.

EVEN IF something new is discovered, which is entirely possible, then nothing "weird" has been discovered, but a new principle, or a new energy source, or a new "something". There is nothing "magical" or "mystical" about any of this. "NEW" things get examined, arranged, collated, and then filed in their proper place IN THE BOX! ;D

Keep the box in sight gentlemen! :D

( For the last statement, I HAD to say this whole post.... ;D Sorry, my weird sense of humor. )

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 21, 2008, 08:40:58 AM
@Buzz

I want to let you know something. I was having problems with uploading and modifying my area of your site. I couldn't delete files, could barely SOMETIMES create directories, etc, etc, etc,.  I am limited to small downloads (cruddy download speed), and free software (cruddy finances, which yields products of generally cruddy performance). I figured the problems were probably the software I was using, and I was right.

That is why I haven't e-mailed you about it. Cruddy software = my problem.

However, I found a small open source prog. which works like a FTP dream with your site called FileZilla. GREAT FREE FTP program which works well with even a dial-up connection, and worse, pretty good quality as well. I thought I would let both you and everyone else know in case any were having the same problems I was trying to upload files with free ftp progs.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 21, 2008, 10:11:34 AM
The problem is that most of today's electrical engineers tend to oversimplify things. When someone ask why something is going on in the circuit , they are citing some law or rule without explanation. There is always an "explanation".

Do you see something interesting about those kicks ? They are symmetrical , positive and negative kicks. I you find a way to create only positive or only negative kicks it will be usable.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 21, 2008, 03:32:53 PM
The problem is that most of today's electrical engineers tend to oversimplify things. When someone ask why something is going on in the circuit , they are citing some law or rule without explanation. There is always an "explanation".

Do you see something interesting about those kicks ? They are symmetrical , positive and negative kicks. I you find a way to create only positive or only negative kicks it will be usable.

LOL, in my experience, i find it quite the opposite. engineers are always over-complicating their designs. so i hope you weren't referring to me  :D by the same token forest, many cite claims without explanation or proof. it is often "it just is, i don't need to prove it to you, just take my word for it, my TPU is floating above my bench"  ;D LOL.

@ all,

it's strange, imo there should be much more interest and discussion on this experiment that Paul kindly took the time to perform for us. no one has any comments about it? i guess this is already "old hat" to most here. they've already got copious amounts of kicks frying loads on their benches, so why would they comment right? or maybe no one wants to say anything contrary to what Paul is saying, which is also a shame. c'mon people, if you agree say it, if not say it too, and why. open discussion is what these forums are supposed to be about.

thanks Paul for the test. now let's see if anyone can or will describe what's happening there. get off your rear-ends guys, this is important.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 21, 2008, 03:45:01 PM
Paul,

Talking to you is a waste of time.  No matter what anyone says, you know more than they do.

There probably is a way to get the "real deal" with the old kicker coils, if it is kept away from the coil being excited, and the collector.  Then it is just a HV souce that is commutated - just like Dollard's "Steinmetz" coil.

G

@Grumpy

You know an interesting effect? There was a time, when they were building what are now called "antique engines", or popularly "hit - and - miss". Interesting things with big flywheels. They had batteries, but at the time, they had a very simple means of firing the spark to ignite the gasoline. It was called a "kick" coil.

What was a "kick" coil? A simple solid iron core solenoid, with a single winding of many, many turns.

By itself, nothing but a waste of battery juice, a big magnet.

What was amazing is that when points were placed so as to make and break the connection, without a capacitor to drain the excess voltage off, this coil could attain 5000v or more upon breaking of the points, so a timing system was devised which would make the contact before the spark was needed, fully energize the coil, then the massive spike at break which would fire the plug.... We also see this at the strike of an arc in an arc welder.

Thousands of volts from a low voltage source has always been a current phenomena from a lower voltage source.

Now, "Kick" coils did not have to be an iron core solenoid. They could also be an air core solenoid, even at higher voltages.........

Electrons have both mass and inertia. Try to stop them or start them suddenly, and they react.

Why don't they still use them? Kick coils (at least the iron cored ones) get HOT after enough use.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 21, 2008, 04:03:55 PM
i cant help but laugh at all of you  :P

i was just gonna explain teslas somthing else but screw it!!   you  wont get it anyways lol

i know im right  ;D 8)

why ??

cuz my shit works....

ist

study teslas utilization of radient engery apparattus      ....

you all know how and why that works??  same damn thing ......
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 21, 2008, 05:49:31 PM
here is the pattend i speek of   look at the digrams ...

http://keelynet.com/tesla/00685958.pdf

i see a transmitter ....   and a reciver ....

or if you perfer a kick and a kickback.....

what bothers me is this lil thing in many of his pattents called G  altho it is not labeled G in this pattend it  is there ..... it is your tranmistter

transmitt in ordor to recieve   ....

you all herd that b4?  lol

ist

well if i keep going  hummmm  what would be next ??  TESLAS FUELLESS GENERATOR :o :o 8)

now how does it work??

lol  think i cant explain it try me ....
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 21, 2008, 07:13:01 PM
@Grumpy

Amazingly enough, nowhere in the definition of the word communication is the phrase "automatic agreement" even implied. Anyone disagreeing with your supposed superior knowledge gets the phrase "take a little blue pill".......

What is that supposed to be....... communication?

Simply put, you grumpy do not desire to communicate, you wish to declare without any debate allowed.

Debate allows another to refute your position. Refutation though is a two way street. Someone refutes your position, you examine the evidence for truth, and IF TRUE logically modify your understanding to fit. Otherwise you refute. Back and forth it can go between two whom are actually open-minded until either agreement, or polite disagreement between the two is reached.

I have no problems changing my viewpoint, and have done so many, many times in the past, even when the refutation was stated badly, or worse, based upon general BS but enough truth remained in principle to require a modification. I have noticed points of interest even from spider and aleks, both of which I tend to disagree viewpoint wise. A time or two even you.

You however seem to follow an old quote I heard once "If you cannot blind them with brilliance, baffle them with BS". You misquote Tesla, then when shown HIS EXACT WORDS deny it as true. You have taken the position, at least by all appearances, as the unteachable teacher. THERE CAN BE NO REAL COMMUNICATION with such. You make claims, but I have never seen evidence from you, of anything harder than sheer speculation. When pressed for evidence you state either MIB or agreements..................

Take for instance innovations arrogant statements made in the last couple of posts. I intend to check the quoted source EVEN IF I HAVE ALREADY READ IT, again, to see if what he says is true.

So, who is it that does not want to understand? Who is it that is a waste of time to communicate with?

You have managed to place yourself by your attitudes and actions into the position of "poser". That is my truthful observance of your position right now, based upon what I have seen.

It would not hurt my feelings much if you in particular did desire to quit communicating with me. By all means, please do so.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 21, 2008, 08:18:22 PM
sorry i dont mean to be arrogant or rude just tired of the laque of progress in the right dirrection

tesla was the master and im sure he still is ....

all his work is pattended and easly accessable just not well comprehended ....

it sadins me that more of you donot see the light it is super bright ..... 8)

you know

ist
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 21, 2008, 09:03:37 PM
@innovation

I think I have bought a small clue. ;D 8)

I am thoroughly familiar with the patent. It is the one I quoted in reference Tesla's own definition of his understanding of radiant energy. In this patent, he describes what he thinks it is, and where it comes from, AND how to harness it.

You could well be right in that the key is present here. Testing and time will tell. I know for a fact I am personally still missing a few clues as to the conceptual operation of the TPU. Two separate TPU's I have wound put out what you have described as the "high voltage sines". I have also noticed that they tend to run for a small time after the power is shut off. ( Not always, but sometimes for a duration several seconds. I attributed this to current inertia in a continuous loop system. I am not saying I am right, just that is what I perceived. )

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 21, 2008, 09:12:09 PM
here is the pattend i speek of   look at the digrams ...

http://keelynet.com/tesla/00685958.pdf

i see a transmitter ....   and a reciver ....

or if you perfer a kick and a kickback.....

what bothers me is this lil thing in many of his pattents called G  altho it is not labeled G in this pattend it  is there ..... it is your tranmistter

transmitt in ordor to recieve   ....

you all herd that b4?  lol

ist

well if i keep going  hummmm  what would be next ??  TESLAS FUELLESS GENERATOR :o :o 8)

now how does it work??

lol  think i cant explain it try me ....

I don't understand what you are saying maybe my English is too limited, then forgive me. You mentioned little thing named G in many patents. Could you elaborate and especially explain  which part of this radiant receiver you have talked about ?

I'm very interested, because I don't see transmitter here except obvious ones like Roentgen tube for example...
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: duff on July 21, 2008, 10:48:11 PM

@duff - It's been many years since I was in a classroom, so I've had to really scrape the edges of my memory to recall much about reflection and I haven't had sufficient time yet to research it properly again. But the more I think about it the more I'm convinced we're not seeing reflection, as the kick appears on the leading edge of the pulse event. If memory serves, reflection happens after an event and may superimpose itself in such a way as to appear to be part of a pulse train. But we aren't necessarily talking about pulse trains here - a single pulse will show a kick. For it to be otherwise, we'd be looking at Einstein's "spooky action at a distance" and I don't think we're working in that realm.

@buzz

Sorry, perhaps I wasn't very clear when I posted about the reflections.

I was not implying that the reflection constituted a kick.
I meant to request that a effort be made to eliminate possibility of what  was being seen as a kick was really a reflection.

@Paul

At times it's difficult to discern between what is norm vs anomalyous.

I've been trying to model your test and compare the model against your results.

The following is what I've come up with so far.
I don't know if I've got the model right but the spikes are there, only the amplitude much lower in the model.

(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/890/pauldudekickexpschem2sm7.jpg)

(http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5941/kickcir22jh4.jpg)

I used ngspice. Here's the netfile if anyone is interested.

paulDude kick analysis 2
* init, Vpulse, delay, Trise, Tfall, pw, period
v1 1 0 pulse (0 9.8 2ns 2ns 2ns 6.206u 12.412u )
l1 4 0 3m
l2 1 2 3m
l3 5 0 3m
l4 1 3 3m
k1 l1 l2 .95
k2 l3 l4 .95
k3 l2 l3 .95
r5 2 4 1e12
r6 5 2 1e12
r7 3 5 1e12
.tran .1us 24us
.end

-Duff
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: buzz-ard on July 21, 2008, 10:59:15 PM
@duff - Thanks - I understood. A simple way to eliminate/observe reflection was something I had been looking for. But I realize it's not the critter we're looking for here.

I'm about ready to get back to my bench and will also replicate Paul's demo, and maybe a couple of variations of my own.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 22, 2008, 06:09:15 AM
so there's been a tiny bit of comments about the kicks and the experiment, but that's it?

are you guys more interested in putting each other down and other such things ???

has no one any explanations, questions, comments, arguments, whatever?

is this how we get to the bottom of the kick mystery? (it's still a mystery to me even though others may not feel the same).

duff thanks for the modeling. what do you conclude from your particular (slightly odd) circuit and its results? is your circuit correct? why are you measuring between node 1 and 2? is anyone paying attention to this...pick up an error maybe?

i know there's more than this going on in the brains out there, c'mon guys post your thoughts.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 22, 2008, 06:24:35 AM
@duff

Try it without extraneous components, just as I posted the experiment. No resistors. The opposing field itself limits the current draw. My experiment requires 2 pancake coils: 1 function generator, 1 oscilloscope.

Coil 1. The first pancake coil is wound continuous cw (clockwise) with a few inches of leads left.
Coil 2. The second pancake coil is wound continuous ccw (counter-clockwise) on top of the first.

This leaves only four leads. The inner lead of coil 1 is connected to the outer lead of coil 2. The outer lead of coil 1 is connected to the inner lead of coil 2.

I will post a pic of current flow.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 22, 2008, 07:01:07 AM
@all

Here is the coil current flow pattern. Remember, the current is flowing from the inside of the inner coil, to the outside, while the current is flowing from the outside of the outer coil towards the inside with the current direction arrows as indicated.

(http://www.randallsteward.com/TPU/pauldude000/kick/CoilSchematic2.jpg)

1. is the FG RED and probe connection
2. is ground for both FG and probe

Ignore 3 and 4. These were just for the original post, and were representative of which coil was being referenced.

By definition they are hooked in parallel, but in current flow they are parallel mirror opposites. That is why a regular schematic or simulation program can be worthless, unless it can differentiate pancake coil connections and action. If spice can, that would be great.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 22, 2008, 07:16:11 AM
@all

Here is the coil current flow pattern. Remember, the current is flowing from the inside of the inner coil, to the outside, while the current is flowing from the outside of the outer coil towards the inside with the current direction arrows as indicated.

By definition they are hooked in parallel, but in current flow they are parallel mirror opposites. That is why a regular schematic or simulation program can be worthless, unless it can differentiate pancake coil connections and action. If spice can, that would be great.

Paul Andrulis

it's simpler than this. pancake coils (not necessary), cw/ccw windings (not necessary), schematics not able to represent what's going on? (not true) etc.---try to keep it simple,  overcomplicating it makes it less clear.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 22, 2008, 07:28:56 AM
@Duff

I have been puzzling out your setup and I have one thing to say. I am lousy at explanation.

Dang, maybe this is too complicated of a setup. I made it opposing in all factors. Direction of rotation of current, spatial directional current flow, and generated magnetic field alignment. It is designed for all factors to hit an electrical "brick wall". The harder this is hit, the harder the wall.

You have two to many coils in your setup. There are no resistors. The necessary resistance is provided by each coils self-inductance and mutual opposing fields. The coils are not center tapped. (I bet you thought 3 and 4 were nodes. My fault not yours.)

It is an interesting concept though. the current flow would be strange, along with the magnetic fields..... kewl. A simple schematic of two coils in parallel is more accurate though.

By the way, if you build, try the magnet exeriment I suggested to poynt earlier.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 22, 2008, 07:41:38 AM
@poynt99

Hmmm......... Coil type doesn't matter....... Winding direction doesn't matter.......

Basically you are stating is is an incorrect usage of the scope connections? (It is possible, I am not an expert.)

Or  are you saying a basic principle? (Equally possible, as I tend to get lost in field examination sometimes.)

I have to disagree on the schematics statement though. Unless your schematics show the winding relationship and style of coil, then no conception of current flow/vs/magnetic field alignment can be attained without extra in detail winding explanation also provided.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 22, 2008, 08:47:55 AM
@poynt99

Hmmm......... Coil type doesn't matter....... Winding direction doesn't matter.......

Basically you are stating is is an incorrect usage of the scope connections? (It is possible, I am not an expert.)

Or  are you saying a basic principle? (Equally possible, as I tend to get lost in field examination sometimes.)

I have to disagree on the schematics statement though. Unless your schematics show the winding relationship and style of coil, then no conception of current flow/vs/magnetic field alignment can be attained without extra in detail winding explanation also provided.

Paul Andrulis

Paul,

see my diagram above. i've marked the poles of each coil so you know by looking that the currents are running in opposite directions for the two. that's how it is done.

the type of transformer is not critical, but some will work better than others. the method you used is not ideal. even though it looks like your two concentric coils worked, a better way would have been to wind a single pancake coil, but as bifilar (both wires wound in the same direction). then hook them up as i've shown in opposition. the problem with yours is the two coils have unequal inductances, and the coupling is poor and uneven between them.

your scope connection is ok. your basic principle is fine too. you are canceling the fields, which is the goal. winding the two coils as i described will give better canceling as they are both occupying the same space (tighter and more consistent coupling), and they both have very close to the same inductance (will react identically to the input pulse).

you could have used a basic bifilar solenoid coil (a stretched out pancake coil), or a bifilar toroid too. results should be similar.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: duff on July 22, 2008, 11:40:39 AM
@Duff

I have been puzzling out your setup and I have one thing to say. I am lousy at explanation.

Dang, maybe this is too complicated of a setup. I made it opposing in all factors. Direction of rotation of current, spatial directional current flow, and generated magnetic field alignment. It is designed for all factors to hit an electrical "brick wall". The harder this is hit, the harder the wall.

You have two to many coils in your setup. There are no resistors. The necessary resistance is provided by each coils self-inductance and mutual opposing fields. The coils are not center tapped. (I bet you thought 3 and 4 were nodes. My fault not yours.)

It is an interesting concept though. the current flow would be strange, along with the magnetic fields..... kewl. A simple schematic of two coils in parallel is more accurate though.

By the way, if you build, try the magnet exeriment I suggested to poynt earlier.

Paul Andrulis

@paul

The resistors are a requirement of the simulation program when making the connection between a primary & secondary.

I considered L1 the primary and L2 the secondary ( note the value of the resistor 1 x 1012 ).

Why?

That's one of the ways that spice's output made sense.

I tried modeling it exactly as you posted it but the model's output was not even close to what you were getting (same as input or no signal).

@poynt99

Quote
duff thanks for the modeling. what do you conclude from your particular (slightly odd) circuit and its results? is your circuit correct?

The circuit I posted was ONE of the ways I tried modeling it and is somewhat of a challange to get to work.

As to being correct, well due to the odd way the circuit is wired I can only guess.
I have not drawn any conclusion at this point - still thinking about other ways it could be modeled.

Quote
why are you measuring between node 1 and 2? is anyone paying attention to this...pick up an error maybe?

Oddly, that is the point which displayed the output wave form that Paul posted. The problem is the model's output is in the microvolts...

@paul

I'd be interested in seeing your output between node 1 & 2

-Duff

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 22, 2008, 05:12:50 PM
@ pont99

what do  you want a verry simple test that CAN NOT BE PROVEN WRONG?? ;D

if this is what you want perhaps this is what you will get but remember YOU WANTED IT!!!

IST'S SIMPLE LIL TEST  prof of concept ...

this test proves it is the kick .....it was what opened my eyes ......

power supply transformer light bulb  simple......

pluse hot electricty 5 amps 1 amp there bouts  no more than that, that will sacre you enough  :o  take a few pics and readings....

NOW I WANT TO HEAR YOUR RESULTS!!!

it seams you want to see and hear everyonelses work where is yours perhaps i missed it but none the less

i dont think anyone missed mine!!!

ist !i!

why am i useing mot trannys not only because the secondary is biased to the core there is another reason INDUCTANCE.... i have a primary that is hi selfiductance  and low selfinductance and the kick is only allowed 1 path out...... ;)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 22, 2008, 07:01:25 PM
i'm just a lil' troll with a lil' brain

it's disappointing that no one can or will come forward with the simple explanation as to what is happening with Paul's test. because it really is just that--simple.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 22, 2008, 07:12:08 PM
@duff

Concerning nodes1 & 2 on your schematic.... My coil is not center tapped, but I might be able to guess where center of coil is and scrape off some insulation and measure. I will have to reset frequency on my FG, but I can get it extremely close to the test setting. (I have been playing)

I will see what I can do....

@Poynt and all

Seriously, build this and try the magnets. I am encouraging this for many more reasons than a just a kick demo.........

Watch the magnets as you change frequency, as they start to oscillate, then rotate. Keep changing the frequency slowly up, then watch them oscillate then rotate.... in another plane of orientation..... and at certain frequencies rotate in both......

The magnetic effects are worth building for, and some bright boy might be able to replace a quadrature setup using this for field rotation, maybe, I don't know. (I think the quad setup gives stronger field strength.

@all

I have been wanting to bite something, quite literally. I felt like a retard.

This demo shows a kick, but I do not think it is the necessary setup for use in a TPU. Now, for how common it is? Have you considered the waveform if this kick is allowed to reflect inside a normal inductor? It will oscillate. With no reinforcement, it will dampen and die. So, you would see an oscillation in the voltage section of the waveform. As soon as the voltage dies, so does the oscillation effect. You then should see a square wave with a high initial edge, which oscillates the top of the waveform from high on left, down to line voltage on right...... SOUND FAMILIAR? (Some call it TRANSFORMER ACTION <- I wanted to bite myself it was so simple.)

I think SM made pulsed kick trains. I also think stan meyers did in his HHO setup (based off of waveform, though his "kicks" may well have been artificial). This should give the SAME effect that Tesla used in his disruptive discharge setup. Active input small wattage, active apparent output kilowatts. This DRIVES THE TPU, not the load! (If I am correct, as you could use it to actively drive a load.)

To build such a kick train, I would need a low frequency with long wavelength, then find frequencies which are true harmonics. (both low and high rising at the same time, yet when low frequency falls, it is imperative that the shorter high frequency wave falls at same time.) The bad thing is at exact frequency, they should also sum, and the kicks should as well.

POSSIBLE SAFETY NOTE: Don't get me wrong, this is an "if I am correct" situation.

This summing can be very bad. Each resonance of said frequencies in a tuned coil should sum as well..... GK's scope shots posted elsewhere show that he is almost there concerning this. He is getting kick trains, but his coils are not tuned. What happens when the voltage rise is doubled geometrically with each resonation of the signal? OUCH. P=IV

Some thoughts to think on, and I welcome comments by all.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: BEP on July 22, 2008, 07:31:08 PM
Don't forget current lags in an inductor. The more the lag the higher the voltage shoots under no load. Now counter wind the inductor. Shouldn't that enforce the effect?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: duff on July 22, 2008, 07:42:20 PM
@duff

Concerning nodes1 & 2 on your schematic.... My coil is not center tapped, but I might be able to guess where center of coil is and scrape off some insulation and measure. I will have to reset frequency on my FG, but I can get it extremely close to the test setting. (I have been playing)

I will see what I can do....

@Paul

My mistake, you've already provided scope shot between L1 & L2.

I tried some more models this morning but did not have good results so I think I'll just drop this model business for the time being.

It's more of an distraction than help...

-Duff
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 22, 2008, 07:44:48 PM
im almost done my mot  8)

just working on the reed switching device on the input side   im not doin out put side yet

what will happin in my mots when i strike resosnance?

hummmm in  ;D

or is that spiting fire

ist

try resonance of a perm mag...   and tune your coil {collector} to that freq   any magnetic produceing coil will transmit 7.8....  i think the collector is only thing really be tuned..... as for higher planes ...  tap em all  diffrent freq tuned coils ....  or tuned by placement

hummmm
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 22, 2008, 10:01:43 PM
Please forgive me my ignorance but may TPU works as I describe:

1.somehow TPU produces magnetic field which is added to Earth magnetic field
2. somehow it rotates that field
3 somehow it abruptly stops rotating this field which generate 'kick'

The point 1 is the key IMHO.That also means a proper ARRANGEMENT IN SPACE of device! AFAIK Earth magnetic field in most places on the Earth surface looks like a stable ORIENTED field . Use that knowledge and fill other gaps (I'm not EE, can't help)
I think it is much easier then it looks like.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: EMdevices on July 22, 2008, 11:45:00 PM
In the UEC video available at google videos   (http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Steven+Mark&hl=en&sitesearch=# (http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Steven+Mark&hl=en&sitesearch=#))  around time stamp 35:25,   SM says that the power source comes from:

a source we use everyday,  ... the use of a MAGNETIC FIELD TO CREATE ELECTRON FLOW IN A WIRE,  which has been in use for hundreds of years...

it is worth listening a few seconds before and after this particular spot, too bad the sound is muted a few times

also notice that he begins to say ELECTROMANGETIC and then corrects himself and says MAGNETIC,  so this is nothing more than the old induction principles.   But the question is how does he do it?  Well it's simple,  he said in a previous video that he tunes the devices to the "inherent frequency"  that the earth magnetic field has.

Anyway, I thought I point that out as I just watched this video again today

EM
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 23, 2008, 03:33:51 AM
@Duff

the modeling would be somewhat easy to do correctly, but you're missing one key element. also, the model circuit isn't quite right.

you should try pspice student version 9.1. it's free and you can draw schematics.

@Paul, nice FG, what's the model number?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: EMdevices on July 23, 2008, 03:48:33 AM
also in the video notice he says that the TPUs were taken aboard airplanes and they work at least up to 15000 ft,  with some VARIATION in the output.   He also says they corrected the problem with orientation relative to the horizon, so that's another clue.   Basically all these clues point to the same fact, his TPUs derive energy from the ambient magnetic field, which has variations from place to place and orientation is important since his device behaves like an antenna.  Where these fluctuations originate or what frequency they are beats me, but he does mention 6 kHz, and 5 kHz in a few places.

Ok, here's some interesting results:

Figure 1:    My plastic core TPU with a 40 turn thin coil wire inside (collector), and lamp cord winding for the toroidal coil (control)    All I do is quickly make contact with the 9 volt battery and disconect, while scoping the collector coil that's terminated in a capacitor so it forms a resonant tank.    I tried different capacitor values and the frequency changes.

Figure 2:   Once in a while (maybe 50% of the time) I get this waveform.   Scope is set on one time trigger.  Notice the clear DC bias that has developed and dissipates slowly.   With the right pumping of the coil this DC bias can be sustained and amplified, which I think the SM tpu's produce.

Figure 3:  Here's the other waveform that occurs the rest of the times.  Notice it's balanced top and bottom and there is no DC bias.

EM

P.S.  Oh, I forgot to mention one crucial fact,  the DC offset waveform appears only with certain capacitor values.  I tried 3 and only one works.  So it's definitely a tunning challenge and depends on the particular TPU parameters.

I added Figure 4,  this was obtained by placing a 150 ohm resistor across the capacitor (and inductor) to see if the DC power is still there.  I got a lower peak but its a distinctive DC pulse with a slight swing into the negative side.  This is 90 degree coupling at it's best !!!  With the right pulsing and resonance on the toroidal windings we can "kick" up the DC voltage on the collector coil to high levels.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 23, 2008, 10:11:26 AM
@Poynt99

Actually, that is my POS "el cheapo" FG... ;D Around \$120 brand new on ebay. Sine out is great, sawtooth not bad, but the squares are smoothed a little too much (rounded one corner)

It is a Victor VC2002 up to 2mhz @ 10v max.

My good FG is a BK 3025 up to 5mhz @ 15v max. (nice clean waveforms)

My scope is a BK 1590A 100mhz 4-channel

@EM

Good observation. Another is on the video DVD I got from JDO. When he states "DC at 5Khz with hash", someone quickly states something to the effect "not AC?", and he quickly replies "YES IT IS AC, but for all intents and purposes it is DC." Check it out, you will see what I am talking about. The one I originally watched on google video was too cruddy to catch this, or else I just plain missed it. :)

The first scope shot is a nice oscillating kick.

The second looks to be a resonating kick.

To think I had always relegated scopes of these as "transformer action", then wrote them off whenever found, and in many cases tried to clear the signal so I could look for "kicks". UGGGGGGHHHH!

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 23, 2008, 10:56:43 AM

Say I have four controls, each 1/4 of the circumference of my TPU.

1. I mix three seperate truly resonant square wave frequencies
2. pass them into the first Control through a hf blocking diode.
3. the signal then comes out of the first control, and I pass it into a seperate inductor to phase it.
4. I then pass this into the second control
5. I repeat step 3 into another inductor to phase it yet again.
6. I pass this into the third control
7. I repeat step 3 to phase it again
8. I pass this into the fourth control.
9. I pass this through a hf blocking diode back into the first control. (It should be in phase now if I remember correctly.)

Would this work? If so, then this would be a simple design three oscillator one signal generated rotating field. Three signals designed specifically for summing for increased power. (W/ coinciding rise fall of previous description.)

If so, then the mid frequency could be found with a nine-volt, just as EM did in his post. Scope the output, calculate the natural resonant frequency based upon duration of harmonics in the shot, then both divide and multiply by three.  Or divide by three twice, and use this as the high frequency. Should be pretty simple.

EM, you just posted the simplest means I know to find the natural resonant frequency of the coil I can think of! Good job! That sure beats scoping around with the FG process I have been doing! That should work with any coil system!

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 23, 2008, 08:47:30 PM
no one has come forward and explained Paul's experiment as of today.

SM told us the kicks are overunity and that they are current kicks. the voltage kicks we see in Paul's scope shots are not overunity. they are a basic electrical reaction due to Lenz's law.

all things being ideal, the voltage kicks seen in Paul's post would have been closer to the 20V level, not 12V.

they are higher than the applied voltage--why?

because of Lenz's law, the inductor will produce a counter emf, and it is this cemf that we see as the 12V spikes.

the two concentric pancake coils is more complicated than it needs to be. wind a simple single air core inductor (solenoid) to give you about the same inductance as your pancake coil (about 20uH) and pulse it the same way. you'll get almost the same scope shot, with no ringing or resonance. the spikes will be there, both negative and positive as before.

every piece of wire no matter how long has some inductance, and every device that will drive this piece of wire has a finite output impedance (50 Ohm typical for function generators, and the crirical missing element in duff's model), so in theory it should be possible to produce these voltage kicks on demand. in fact in practice, it should be impossible to get rid of them.

so at the end of the day, what do we have? we have some transient cemf produced that exceeds the applied input voltage level, but current does not increase nor does the power, leaving us with exactly what we put in, minus some natural losses.

but we still don't have the kicks SM talked about, because the above kicks are not increases in current, and they aren't overunity.

so until now the peanut gallery has been mostly quiet about this. forgive me for breaking my promise of keeping quiet ;)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 23, 2008, 09:55:05 PM
no one has come forward and explained Paul's experiment as of today.

SM told us the kicks are overunity and that they are current kicks. the voltage kicks we see in Paul's scope shots are not overunity. they are a basic electrical reaction due to Lenz's law.

all things being ideal, the voltage kicks seen in Paul's post would have been closer to the 20V level, not 12V.

they are higher than the applied voltage--why?

because of Lenz's law, the inductor will produce a counter emf, and it is this cemf that we see as the 12V spikes.

the two concentric pancake coils is more complicated than it needs to be. wind a simple single air core inductor (solenoid) to give you about the same inductance as your pancake coil (about 20uH) and pulse it the same way. you'll get almost the same scope shot, with no ringing or resonance. the spikes will be there, both negative and positive as before.

every piece of wire no matter how long has some inductance, and every device that will drive this piece of wire has a finite output impedance (50 Ohm typical for function generators, and the crirical missing element in duff's model), so in theory it should be possible to produce these voltage kicks on demand. in fact in practice, it should be impossible to get rid of them.

so at the end of the day, what do we have? we have some transient cemf produced that exceeds the applied input voltage level, but current does not increase nor does the power, leaving us with exactly what we put in, minus some natural losses.

but we still don't have the kicks SM talked about, because the above kicks are not increases in current, and they aren't overunity.

so until now the peanut gallery has been mostly quiet about this. forgive me for breaking my promise of keeping quiet ;)

Now,when you're talking about it I think I may have something interesting. Mistakenly I modified my Bedini monopole simplified in such way that it became self-oscillating. I can light a NE-2 neon placed instead of charging battery. The voltage here is mostly at power source level but there are one or two sweet spots of POT when voltage rises up to 50V. I placed a 10uF/250V capacitor at the output connected with the neon. Interesting and curious effect - light spectrum changed from red-purplish to pure orange on both neons (second one is normally in that circuit). Unfortunately I didn't tested it longer then a second or two because charging that cap to 250V or up with such high frequency oscillation is a matter of 1 second or even faster. I have no oscilloscope, sorry.Two analog ammeters would be also good (one on power supply and one between neon and cap). I don't state it's OU, just cannot check. :-(

Maybe help me improve this circuit, I'm a little scared of possible capacitor explosion due to overvoltage.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: giantkiller on July 24, 2008, 12:15:11 AM
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3354.0;attach=23805)

The kick is at the top of the bell curve edge hidden in the ringing. The next pulse in amplifies it. Unfortunately the DC part also causes its demise. The ringing in the DC part is the 2 forces fighting for control. The DC wins as shown by the stability of the voltage.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: EMdevices on July 24, 2008, 12:23:28 AM
I don't bother any longer with basics, but I'm glad you got it off your chest.   I agree with you and your previous post about SM's intent and meaning of the word "kick", and how it's used.    A  few of us made videos a year ago showing the REAL kick in action.  We had wires and pulsed them from a battery and saw them MOVE under the influence of the earth magnetic field, yes it's weak but with enough amperage, quite able to move the wire.  Motion is key to the TPU performance perhaps.  But then again I've entertained so many theories that I don't know what the hell I believe anylonger.   I can see clues about all sorts of theories in the videos and the SM letters.  I give higher priority to the videos.   The "kick" description comes from the SM letters and one has to understand the context, and that's tricky and subjective so I don't concern myself too much with the true interpretation of the "kick" any longer.   Basicaly SM does not tell us how it's done, but gives us "clues" and "hints".  the best he has to offer is perhaps how the larger TPU is wound.  Anyway, there's better clues to get obsesed over.   He mentions that the devices act like RADIOS, and that you TUNE to a frequency, or that you inject harmonics of a frequency, etc.. etc...

no one has come forward and explained Paul's experiment as of today.

SM told us the kicks are overunity and that they are current kicks. the voltage kicks we see in Paul's scope shots are not overunity. they are a basic electrical reaction due to Lenz's law.

all things being ideal, the voltage kicks seen in Paul's post would have been closer to the 20V level, not 12V.

they are higher than the applied voltage--why?

because of Lenz's law, the inductor will produce a counter emf, and it is this cemf that we see as the 12V spikes.

the two concentric pancake coils is more complicated than it needs to be. wind a simple single air core inductor (solenoid) to give you about the same inductance as your pancake coil (about 20uH) and pulse it the same way. you'll get almost the same scope shot, with no ringing or resonance. the spikes will be there, both negative and positive as before.

every piece of wire no matter how long has some inductance, and every device that will drive this piece of wire has a finite output impedance (50 Ohm typical for function generators, and the crirical missing element in duff's model), so in theory it should be possible to produce these voltage kicks on demand. in fact in practice, it should be impossible to get rid of them.

so at the end of the day, what do we have? we have some transient cemf produced that exceeds the applied input voltage level, but current does not increase nor does the power, leaving us with exactly what we put in, minus some natural losses.

but we still don't have the kicks SM talked about, because the above kicks are not increases in current, and they aren't overunity.

so until now the peanut gallery has been mostly quiet about this. forgive me for breaking my promise of keeping quiet ;)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 24, 2008, 12:25:27 AM
@poynt99

I am somewhat at a loss. I know what cemf (counter or "back" emf) is. Yet this by definition could not be counter emf, in that the spikes are with the applied voltage (same charge), not against (opposite charge). You can see this in the scope shot at .2 per div.

We have seen cemf shots commonly too, these are the scope shots with a voltage spike in the opposite direction as the scope shots I posted.

I ask as it seems amazing how much is tried by many to be lumped under the term "Back EMF", when what is lumped is not opposing. It seems as bad as transformer action.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 24, 2008, 12:41:10 AM
I think this explanation made by SM may be the master key :

"Let us say that you have a magnetic field perhaps it is only a small permanent magnet.
Now, you have a single copper wire twelve inches long. If you move the magnet across the
surface of the wire from left to right at a certain speed you create an electron flow which is
DC and it has a power potential based on how strong the field is and how fast the magnet
if moved. So, if you increase the size of the magnet or the speed it moves you create a
larger flow of electrons, larger as in higher voltage or more current.
Everyone tells us that the earth's magnetic field is measured as being too insignificant to
generate any useable power, that is not so.
Let me give you something to think about... If you had a short wire and you moved a
magnet across it you would always have limited potential because the length of wire was
so short. OK now what if we increase the length of the wire to many miles in length even
with a very weak magnetic field moving across the wire you still have a much greater
potential flow of power available. If we put it into a perspective of power per inch it may be
easier to understand.
If you have a small magnetic field moving across a wire twelve inches long it can generate
an electron flow equal to lets say one millivolt per inch. If you move the magnet twelve
inches at the same speed you get 12 millivolts as you transgress the twelve inches of wire.
Understand that I am trying to convey a principal that you can understand for use in the
future.
So, you have a wire twelve inches long and you can make 12 millivolts moving a magnet
across it. If you have a wire 1000 feet long and you move the same small magnetic field
across the length of it you can create much more voltage potential perhaps 12,000
millivolts lets say.
So, you have managed to generate a significant amount of electric power with a weak
magnetic force.
OK, how does this help us? Where am I going with this?
Suppose you have 1,000 pieces of wire twelve inches long and you run the same weak
magnetic field over them all at the same time..... you get the same flow of electrons.
If the wires are run in series then you will get the 12,000 millivolts etc. If you connect the
wires in parallel you will get higher current but lower voltage. However, the power
potential is the same whether you run the wires in series or parallel.
If you know how to find the circuit potential, you tune into the frequency and you have
enough short pieces of wire you can convert as much power as you wish in a given space.
Things are more complex then what I have told you but I am just trying to give you an idea of
how the technology works."

Nikola Tesla was able to create 200kV field using small coil and probably no more then 10kV-20kV .What if SM is doing the same but counting current not voltage ? 700V at 1A from small power source.
Now look at TPU ? How much coils are there ? How much should be connected in PARALLEL to get such current ?
The obvious answer is that each coil is not constructed like a common coil  but probably in MANY SECTIONS.

Many pancake coils connected in parallel ? How it would looks like ?Don't forget about controls coil, it's probably very important to limit current flow...
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 24, 2008, 01:54:50 AM
@all

There seems to be some odd concepts. Volatge is no more separate from the electrons it represents, as one aspect of their movement, than is amperage.

Water is easily used as a comparison, as the concept of "flow" is the same for each.

"Amperage" is the amount of electrons passing a given point at a given time. This is a measurement of volume of flow.
"Voltage" is the amount of pressure in the pipe, so to speak.
"current" is somewhat confused, as depending upon how it it used, it can mean either "amperage", or electron flow.

However, you can have neither voltage nor amperage without electrons. Both are just measurements of "how many" (volume flow) or "how strong" (speed or pressure)

Now, consider the concept of "ability to do work".

When you consider voltage as incapable of doing work, that it is just a "potential", that is similar to stating that a hydraulic jack cannot do work since it is based upon pressure, or that pressure in a pipe does not do work. It is constantly exerting force upon the pipe, so even in a static or non flowing scenario, it is always doing work.

Consider a Van-DeGraff Generator. Nothing but voltage right? Get your finger too close and see what a lack of work will do. Especially if it is a nice Van-DeGraff...... That 12 inch long arc contains BOTH current and voltage, though the voltage far outstrips the amperage. However, it is the combination of voltage AND amperage that determined the work.

One cannot be considerable without the other.

Another thing I wish to cover is the concept of the earth's magnetic field. Just like in a bar magnet, the "lines of force" exits the Earth at a magnetic pole and enters at the opposite pole. This means that the "lines of force" are horizontal to the surface of the earth. The magnetism of the earth is not comparable to gravity, which cant be seen as eminating perpendicularly from the surface of the earth.

I have heard many speaking in this manner, so I thought I would clear that up.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 24, 2008, 02:09:12 AM
Paul,

most people think they know what cemf is, but really they're only aware of or consider half of the equation so to speak. also, they get confused about polarities.

why do people think that Lenz's law only applies when current is shut off  ???

the fact is that it applies both when current is applied and when it is removed.

in either case, the induced changing magnetic field produces an emf called cemf that opposes the applied voltage. the voltage opposes so as to make the current "flow" the direction opposite to the original applied current.

in the case for our function generator, when it goes to +10V, the voltage across the inductor also goes positive with respect to ground. so now we have two positive voltages head-to-head. in order for current to "flow" in the opposite direction, VL > VFG, and this is why the voltage measured on the output side of the generator resistor jumps up in voltage. if you were to go inside the FG and measure right at the low impedance output before the 50 Ohm resistor, what would you expect to see? +10V of course.

now the same thing happens when the generator is either removed, or if it goes to -10V. there is little difference as far as the Lenz effect is concerned. the inductor will again develop a voltage across it to oppose the applied voltage, and since we are either going negative, or removing the voltage completely, the inductor voltage will be negative wrt ground.

i took duff's lead and modeled the circuit correctly, both with the opposing coils, and with only a single coil. the dual-coil results look identical to yours Paul. let me know if you would like to see them.

@ EMD, you seem annoyed. No one was coming forward with the answer, so i did. if it was "basic", why didn't we hear from you earlier?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 24, 2008, 04:22:04 AM
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3354.0;attach=23805)

The kick is at the top of the bell curve edge hidden in the ringing. The next pulse in amplifies it. Unfortunately the DC part also causes its demise. The ringing in the DC part is the 2 forces fighting for control. The DC wins as shown by the stability of the voltage.

--giantkiller.

hey guys,

see the kick? it's right there! can't see it too well amongst all that noise, but it's there, i assure you ;)

:D LOL :D LOL :D LOL
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 24, 2008, 04:49:09 AM
hey guys,

see the kick? it's right there! can't see it too well amongst all that noise, but it's there, i assure you ;)

:D LOL :D LOL :D LOL

Hey Troll,

Trying to mock a builder here is not cool.  (Bad Troll!!)

NOW, if you actually EVER built anything..... OH, never mind, that will never happen.  Time to crawl under your bridge, BEND OVER, and wait for the KICK!!!  IT will be there, i assure you ;)

:D LOL :D LOL :D LOL
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 24, 2008, 04:49:43 AM
Double post, should have left it!  LOL
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: duff on July 24, 2008, 05:23:19 AM
With reference to the link EM posted to the SM video above

I set my function generator to 6000Hz. / 24Vpp output.

Sin Wave:        0.106VDC
Square Wave: 0.265VDC

Obviously SM has a strong DC component with the 6KHz ripple or a different wave form (yes, I know this has been discussed before)

@GK

What is the DC output of your Bell Curve Waveform (measured with a DVM),  the frequency of your pulses and duty cycle??

@poynt99

I would like to see your model and (raw) netfile.

@Bruce

A year ago or so, in your thread, I think you posted a link to someone doing work with the earth's magnetic field. I belive the guy was in Sweden or somewhere in that area. If I recall correctly he was visiting different geological locations, maybe his work took him there, anyway while he was there he was taking measurements and validating his work.

I've searched the thead but cannot find it. Maybe I'm not giving you enough specific info but that all I can recall.

If you have any idea who I'm referring to please post the link if you can find it.

Thanks
-Duff
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 24, 2008, 05:25:27 AM
Hey Troll,

Trying to mock a builder here is not cool.  (Bad Troll!!)

NOW, if you actually EVER built anything..... OH, never mind, that will never happen.  Time to crawl under your bridge, BEND OVER, and wait for the KICK!!!  IT will be there, i assure you ;)

:D LOL :D LOL :D LOL

Bruce,

These copper-tops are not worth the effort - probably MIB bot's anyway.   You can also tell the bot's because no matter what you say or show - it isn't enough and they ask for more.  Paul's "kicks" are just differentiated pulses - which if he knew how to apply them would be a good thing but he doesn't seem to know - otherwise they are just pulses and of no interest.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 24, 2008, 05:33:49 AM
no one has come forward and explained Paul's experiment as of today.

SM told us the kicks are overunity and that they are current kicks. the voltage kicks we see in Paul's scope shots are not overunity. they are a basic electrical reaction due to Lenz's law.

all things being ideal, the voltage kicks seen in Paul's post would have been closer to the 20V level, not 12V.

they are higher than the applied voltage--why?

because of Lenz's law, the inductor will produce a counter emf, and it is this cemf that we see as the 12V spikes.

the two concentric pancake coils is more complicated than it needs to be. wind a simple single air core inductor (solenoid) to give you about the same inductance as your pancake coil (about 20uH) and pulse it the same way. you'll get almost the same scope shot, with no ringing or resonance. the spikes will be there, both negative and positive as before.

every piece of wire no matter how long has some inductance, and every device that will drive this piece of wire has a finite output impedance (50 Ohm typical for function generators, and the crirical missing element in duff's model), so in theory it should be possible to produce these voltage kicks on demand. in fact in practice, it should be impossible to get rid of them.

so at the end of the day, what do we have? we have some transient cemf produced that exceeds the applied input voltage level, but current does not increase nor does the power, leaving us with exactly what we put in, minus some natural losses.

but we still don't have the kicks SM talked about, because the above kicks are not increases in current, and they aren't overunity.

so until now the peanut gallery has been mostly quiet about this. forgive me for breaking my promise of keeping quiet ;)

Paul showed differentiated pulses - whoop-de-doo.

Had anyone here done an ounce of study they would know that the primary and secondary of a Tesla Transformer (the two pancake coils) is a differentiator.  The transformation ratio is not related to turns but to frequency - shall we say "air core" or "electrostatic"?  You can get a good square wave with the right coupling coefficient...hint hint

Got off thine ass and use these pulses to drive a separate coil by impulse excitation and you might save your ass after all - or not...  ;D
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 24, 2008, 05:40:15 AM

There seems to be some odd concepts. Volatge is no more separate from the electrons it represents, as one aspect of their movement, than is amperage.

I guess you never heard of "virtual charges".

By the way, the Earth's magnetic field has "three" components - try and apply that to your bar magnet.  Go ahead - look it up.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 24, 2008, 06:29:55 AM
Simply put, you grumpy do not desire to communicate, you wish to declare without any debate allowed.

Yet, we are still communicating...

You misquote Tesla, then when shown HIS EXACT WORDS deny it as true.

When did I ever misquote anyone, Tesla or otherwise?  I am very precise, even when cryptic.  I posted Tesla's exact statement and it's source - and hence - resonance is NOT required.

Take for instance innovations arrogant statements made in the last couple of posts. I intend to check the quoted source EVEN IF I HAVE ALREADY READ IT, again, to see if what he says is true.

Everyone laughs at I_H, but he is an information magnet and knows more about free energy than most on this forum - fools.  Instead of picking his brain, people just laugh like silly little girls.

[/quote]
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 24, 2008, 06:39:33 AM
Tesla designed what was commonly called a "death ray", which has a common definition today..... a particle accelerator.

How can you have a "particle accelerator" without particles?   The charged region of space around the elevated terminal of a Tesla Magnifier is not particulate in nature and grows (expands) as a log periodic spiral - the Golden Ratio - non-verbatum quote from Eric Dollard and confirmed by Builders who shall remain nameless.

Once again you make assumptions.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 24, 2008, 06:47:33 AM
The magnetism of the earth is not comparable to gravity, which cant be seen as eminating perpendicularly from the surface of the earth.

Wrong.  One of the three components of the Earth's magnetic field is "vertical".

Again, you make assumptions.

Magnetism is a 2D field - magnetism is 3D.  Might want to write this down.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 24, 2008, 07:03:29 AM
you're right grumper, it's differentiation. probably nothing more.

works with capacitors too. theoretical output peaks are 2xVi (as i already mentioned).

integrate the differentiated wave form and you're back to the original.

see, trolls aren't all that bad Bruce, they can learn too  :P

so Paul, still and once again, there's nothing too special about the output from this setup.

oh and grumpy, you nailed it right on man, Paul and i are MIBs, or MIB wannabe's, (haven't decided yet). thanks for busting us man, that's quite a load of guilt off our sholders. now we can continue free, like the wind....  ;D
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 24, 2008, 07:39:58 AM
@ Duff,

you're probably the only one interested in this, so i'm just posting the netlist. it's the simple single inductor version, which won't give the exact results as Paul's but close enough. you'll see the differentiation effect and voltage peak anyway:

Vgen 1 0 Pulse -10 10 0 10n 10n 6.25u 12.5u
Rgen 1 2 50
L1 2 3 20uH
R1 3 0 1.2

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 24, 2008, 08:09:52 AM
Hey Troll,

Trying to mock a builder here is not cool.  (Bad Troll!!)

NOW, if you actually EVER built anything..... OH, never mind, that will never happen.  Time to crawl under your bridge, BEND OVER, and wait for the KICK!!!  IT will be there, i assure you ;)

:D LOL :D LOL :D LOL

whatever bruce, chirp chirp chirp away...

i'm still waiting for my kick  :P
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 24, 2008, 09:50:04 AM
Hmmmmm. Interesting.

Two people trying to through out bull**** as truth. Both seemingly opposing, but serving the same end. Same corporation? I don't need to name any names. It should be clear to any reader.

To one of them, nice switch. Nailed to the proverbial wall with the back-emf concept, switched to "differentiated pulses" at the drop of a hat. I like that term.... sounds impressive, yet completely meaningless. Just like "transformer action".

To the other: No, you wouldn't know Tesla if he bit you in the keaster, apparently. The "Death Ray" used the magnifying transmitter for power only, to drive a linear particle accelerator. (Yes, particle...) Oh, I forgot, you ignore what Tesla himself said. You seem to know more than him.

I don't think you are MIB gentlemen, I think you are worse than MIB. I think you are posers. Attention hounds. Intellectually effete.

If you were MIB you would be fired for being so lousy and transparent at the job. I hear quite a bit of talk, mostly BS, so why don't each of you do something more enlightening and satisfying, like build something.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 24, 2008, 10:25:30 AM
Paul,

What do you think about my idea that TPU coils are parallel connected pancake coils or maybe even each of them is bifilar ? The idea is a coil which is segmented , each segment is acting as separate coil yet adding power to the others in chain. (This would be the same what Stanley Meyer did, however Meyer connected them serially to step up voltage and limit current)

There is also one interesting idea - positive feedback. AFAIK flat disc rotating in magnetic field is summing his magnetic field with external magnetic field.Pancake coil is flat and current therein is rotating, maybe there is no difference between rotating disc and rotating current inside.Isn't that only a point of view ? I bet that two ideas are involved because IMHO they fit exactly SM words.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 24, 2008, 10:27:48 AM
This may ruffle some hackles. I am going to speak here completely bluntly.

I may have been somewhat remiss in my last post.

One name comes to mind as an instant attack whenever any sort of claim or demonstration is made, by most anyone. It has been this way since I have been here.......... Get the Poynt?

Now, I may just sound somewhat Grumpy when I say this, but whenever any truly scientific viewpoint is launched, another name jumps in to attack. Also has been this way from the beginning.

What is worse is both misquote and/or misrepresent the "viewpoint" that they individually supposedly believe. Neither of them post evidential results of their own "experiments" of any kind.....

However, the techniques applied by both are incredibly similar.

It is true that a small amount of force can control a much larger force. Thought works the same way. Ridicule, make a laughingstock of someone, and others tend to quit listening to them. Downplay anything possibly important, and promote error whenever possible.

It is called disinformation, and the techniques are age old. Whether purposeful, or ego fed, is the only question in my mind.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 24, 2008, 10:54:09 AM
@forest

By "TPU coils" I assume you are talking the horizontal collectors? (There are two coil sets used in the TPU from SM's description, namely the horizontal collector coils, and the vertical control/drive coils.

I have seen some interesting effects using bifilar collectors. Experimentation is going to be the ultimate judge. I am personally starting to lean in the pancake direction myself though.

I do know that in the HQ video I got from JDO300, that depicted the open frame TPU which definitely showed solenoidal type control coils of speaker type wire visible to the open air. However, it also showed a circular molded plate on both top and bottom which would have HAD to have been pancake coils, quite possibly bifilar, since the visible controls were wound around them.

I need to start going back through my "discarded" TPU's (so far around ten experimental built), and retest them, from a slightly different standpoint.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: EMdevices on July 24, 2008, 03:21:20 PM
Hi Paul,Ã‚Â

In your pancake coil experiment you use a square wave that has a DC component of zero (i.e. square wave that swings to + voltage and then to - voltage).Ã‚Â   So that's why you see the "kickback" voltage, typical of interupting the current through an inductor, at EVERY zero crossing.Ã‚Â  You're saying it is appearing at the LEADING edge, but it's more like the TRAILING edge of the previous pulse, that's the proper way to think about it.Ã‚Â  There can be pulses at the leading edge, but you need to varry you pulse width to realy notice that phenomena with the right setup, with a 50% pulse width (or square wave) it's not going to work.

@ poynt,Ã‚Â  I'm not annoyed, just frustrated.

EM
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on July 24, 2008, 03:41:34 PM
Perhaps the kick dielectric information imposed on the control windings electrostatically cleaves the collector copper mass.   This creates charge stratified layers of copper mass.  Effectively turning the mass of the collector windings into thousands of individual conducting fields.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 24, 2008, 03:42:26 PM
sheesh Paul, you are paranoid you know?

i was never trying to make a laughing stock of you. i am trying to get to the bottom of the kick mystery---still.

yes i call bs when i see it, and do you think i'm the only one? they may not post, but i guarantee you there are many more.

what i said about Lenz's law and cemf still holds true, but in this case your setup really is a passive differentiator made from a series resistor and shunt inductor. it was my mistake thinking it was cemf in this case. don't worry, i'm not in cahoots with grumpy.

sorry you read me wrong. if i was only interested in derailing true research (and you've done some good research here with this experiment), i would be doing things quite different. also, gk and otto deserve 10 times the amount of flak i dish out, but no one here has the balls to do it. no one presses them about their claims and so their disinformation lives on and creates what we have today on the Steven Mark thread, a mishmash of senseless unproven garbage being hailed as the "best" research going on here...poppycock!

i had hoped to stir up some dialogue about your experiment, but not much came of it until posted what I thought it was. now you're scorning me for admitting i was wrong....no one here ever admits they're wrong. made a mistake in doing that also i guess.

just takes things at face value and forget about the MIB thing. or not, the choice is yours.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 24, 2008, 03:43:10 PM
well guys you know i would be building things but

im too busy stripping copper from old motors for scrap just to get by from day to day

such is life ...   at least the price is high .... ;D

100 lb scrap copper = 300 cdn  ;D

out with the old in with the new ;D

ist
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 24, 2008, 04:26:56 PM
Even when you are told that your pulses are crap you refuse to accept it.  Go ahead and drown in your self-gratifying BS.

You keep claiming that I misquote Tesla, yet you only repeat the hearsay and BS on the web about him.

Come on Paul, try to prove me wrong.  You can't.  If you had any sense you would listen to every word I say and apply it, but you never will.  You could get rid of the neg pulses, clamp the crap out of the pos one (to raise them way above zero) and use them to excite a third coil - wa-la - RE coming out your ass.  But you won't even try cause you think we're all full of crap.

I'll keep trying to help you a little longer, but I am tiring.

You made a rediculous statement to MIB and now you accuse Poynt99 and myself of being MIB?  Hillarious.

Allright - all BS and joking aside.  Let's move on.

About the differentiation, see attached image - notice the pulses coincide with the transitions of the square wave?  The top image is double differentiation - notice the pulse is tighter but you get a quick reversal at each pulse?

G

Hmmmmm. Interesting.

Two people trying to through out bull**** as truth. Both seemingly opposing, but serving the same end. Same corporation? I don't need to name any names. It should be clear to any reader.

To one of them, nice switch. Nailed to the proverbial wall with the back-emf concept, switched to "differentiated pulses" at the drop of a hat. I like that term.... sounds impressive, yet completely meaningless. Just like "transformer action".

To the other: No, you wouldn't know Tesla if he bit you in the keaster, apparently. The "Death Ray" used the magnifying transmitter for power only, to drive a linear particle accelerator. (Yes, particle...) Oh, I forgot, you ignore what Tesla himself said. You seem to know more than him.

I don't think you are MIB gentlemen, I think you are worse than MIB. I think you are posers. Attention hounds. Intellectually effete.

If you were MIB you would be fired for being so lousy and transparent at the job. I hear quite a bit of talk, mostly BS, so why don't each of you do something more enlightening and satisfying, like build something.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 24, 2008, 04:54:33 PM
Stanley Meyer used the proper wave,but how he was able to do it ?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: giantkiller on July 24, 2008, 05:37:19 PM
Stanley Meyer used the proper wave,but how he was able to do it ?

A conical coil producing and EMP would definately cause a stir. If it was up against an aluminum plate then the energy coming off the edges would be very sharp. That, I have posted before. But that example uses 2 pancakes and the destination metal is allowed to travel. Also in the experiment the traveling washer does not tumble. Nobody mentioned that here.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: wings on July 24, 2008, 05:53:18 PM
Tesla sharp pulses

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: duff on July 24, 2008, 05:55:29 PM
@ Duff,

you're probably the only one interested in this, so i'm just posting the netlist. it's the simple single inductor version, which won't give the exact results as Paul's but close enough. you'll see the differentiation effect and voltage peak anyway:

Vgen 1 0 Pulse -10 10 0 10n 10n 6.25u 12.5u
Rgen 1 2 50
L1 2 3 20uH
R1 3 0 1.2

@poynt

Ok - maybe I can learn something here, so please give me some explanation.

To me the circuit does not represent Pauls circuit in that you don't show both bifilar inductors with opposing polarity.

The differentiation is bascially voltage across the inductor as a  result of the RL time constant.

I like the output waveform but I don't understand why the -10 volt pulse ???

If I apply a positve pulse everything goes to hell - I don't get that at all...

-Duff
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 25, 2008, 02:59:26 AM
@duff

He had to do that in part to account for the 20v demonstrated on the screen shot. The scenario would never show 20v, unless 10v+ AND 10v- were input, which my FG was not doing.

My function generator only puts out 10v total amplitude. That is... 10v peak to peak.... (5v+ and 5v- at zero dc offset which I used for the experiment. It can only put out 10v+ only at full dc offset+, and then 0v-. No matter how you look at it, 10v is still unaccounted for.)

http://www.victorelectronics.com/specifications/vc2002_specs.htm (http://www.victorelectronics.com/specifications/vc2002_specs.htm)

@all

I wish to point out some things which seem to have gotten lost since I first posted:

1. The effect is common. No kidding it has a "common buzzword" in EE. I stated it would.
2. I stated that I was going to have to deal with just this sort of BS, even with the complex test.

Yes, you are looking at "wave differentiation". I still think it is a cute word, with little meaning.

DEFINITION:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/differentiation (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/differentiation)

Look it up. ;D You will quickly find it is a buzzword. The usage as Grumpster posted is used in the manner of a differential op-amp.

Interesting enough, you see this effect to some degree all the time, even in full waveforms.

A non-integrating wave. Just because an effect has a common term applied to it, does not change anything. I explained this was so earlier. Nothing is therefore "relegated away", or "crap" as one so "quaintly" put it.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 25, 2008, 03:11:11 AM

@poynt

Ok - maybe I can learn something here, so please give me some explanation.

To me the circuit does not represent Pauls circuit in that you don't show both bifilar inductors with opposing polarity.

The differentiation is bascially voltage across the inductor as a  result of the RL time constant.

I like the output waveform but I don't understand why the -10 volt pulse ???

If I apply a positve pulse everything goes to hell - I don't get that at all...

-Duff

@ Duff

the single inductor shows you the same effect, just a slightly different wave form. but here is the dual bucking version since you asked. i threw in a small parallel capacitor for good measure.

schematic, wave form, wave form vertical zoomed, more or less like Paul did in his post. the netlist is here also. sorry for the funny net numbers.

i am sure Paul's generator is swinging plus and minus 10V, so that's what i did. you won't get the right levels measured if you use only +10V and 0V. does it make sense now?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 25, 2008, 04:11:28 AM
@all

I wish to point out some things which seem to have gotten lost since I first posted:

1. The effect is common. No kidding it has a "common buzzword" in EE. I stated it would.
2. I stated that I was going to have to deal with just this sort of BS, even with the complex test.

Yes, you are looking at "wave differentiation". I still think it is a cute word, with little meaning.

DEFINITION:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/differentiation (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/differentiation)

Look it up. ;D You will quickly find it is a buzzword. The usage as Grumpster posted is used in the manner of a differential op-amp.

Interesting enough, you see this effect to some degree all the time, even in full waveforms.

A non-integrating wave. Just because an effect has a common term applied to it, does not change anything. I explained this was so earlier. Nothing is therefore "relegated away", or "crap" as one so "quaintly" put it.

Paul Andrulis

Dude,

Differentiation has nothing to do with op amps - it's a form of filtering - aka "high pass filter" - no rocket science and no OU.

Look up "Dirac's Delta Function" and you might learn something - or not...ROFLMFAO-LOL!

No matter how you deny it, how you slice it, dice it, ignor it, or try to explain it away - your "kicks" are just "ordinary pulses".

You can continue in a world of denial or you can try to use these pulses.  I already told you how.

If I am so "off" - then put a sine wave in instead of a square and you will find that sines are relatively "immune" to differentiation - you'll get attenuation and phase shift but it still looks like a sine - go ahead punk! - make my freakin' day!

G

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: duff on July 25, 2008, 04:39:34 AM
@ Duff

the single inductor shows you the same effect, just a slightly different wave form. but here is the dual bucking version since you asked. i threw in a small parallel capacitor for good measure.

schematic, wave form, wave form vertical zoomed, more or less like Paul did in his post. the netlist is here also. sorry for the funny net numbers.

i am sure Paul's generator is swinging plus and minus 10V, so that's what i did. you won't get the right levels measured if you use only +10V and 0V. does it make sense now?

@Ponyt,

I understand what your saying however to me it does not account for the way Paul
made the connections. I'm still thinking  my orginal post is closer even though
I did not get the correct voltage levels.

Your bucking coils I buy, but they are not bifilar and reflect the connection Paul

The schematics will hopefully illustrate what I'm saying.

I appreciate your work in posting the models and hope you can see my point.

-Duff

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 25, 2008, 04:56:32 AM
Even when you are told that your pulses are crap you refuse to accept it.  Go ahead and drown in your self-gratifying BS.

Yes, grumpy, you are the master, the authority, the one guru here whom has complete and infallible understanding of all you survey. Your understanding of Tesla's works has relegated you into the position of religious leader for all Teslites.

Quote
You keep claiming that I misquote Tesla, yet you only repeat the hearsay and BS on the web about him.

All anyone has to do is go back in this very thread to discover that, concerning Tesla's own definition of radiant energy, his words were quoted, YOU stated his words incorrect.

They were quoted directly from his own patent dealing with the subject, not just some "BS" on the web. Nice try, or should I say nice foot in mouth..

Quote
Come on Paul, try to prove me wrong.  You can't.  If you had any sense you would listen to every word I say and apply it, but you never will.

Concerning the wave phenomena, you were the only one right, which was VERY surprising. However, it changes nothing, as you would understand if you bothered to understand my initial posts. I SAID it was common. Now, you actually did post the common term for a common effect. You want a star? To quote you, "Whoop-de-dooo".

No kidding that a common effect has a common term also associated with it.

I have sense, and now I intend to refuse to respond to your posts which are "attitudinal", to use slang.

Quote
You could get rid of the neg pulses, clamp the crap out of the pos one (to raise them way above zero) and use them to excite a third coil - wa-la - RE coming out your ass.  But you won't even try cause you think we're all full of crap.

Why, when SM stated this device works off of magnetic fields, should I be concerned with RE?

You have also in the hubbard coil thread stated a position of mine wrong because of harmonics, and you referred as proof to the "magnifying transmitter" as proof. The only problem is that there is no evidence whatsoever linking the TPU tech with the magnifying transmitter tech. NONE.

Quote
I'll keep trying to help you a little longer, but I am tiring.

I already stated I am tired of this, and more than hinted that your refusal to attempt to communicate with me is fine, actually more than just merely fine, it is desirable.

Quote
You made a rediculous statement to MIB and now you accuse Poynt99 and myself of being MIB?  Hillarious.
Allright - all BS and joking aside.  Let's move on.

I didn't say you were MIB, just that it is a possibility. I stated quite clearly that I assume you are POSERS. However, without proof nothing is truly ruled out, since what you do has the same overall effect..

Quote
About the differentiation, see attached image - notice the pulses coincide with the transitions of the square wave?  The top image is double differentiation - notice the pulse is tighter but you get a quick reversal at each pulse?

Good going.... You figured it out.

Now explain it, how it affects fields within the circuit, how it affects current flow, etc......

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 25, 2008, 05:18:43 AM
@Grumpy

Differentiation has NOTHING to do with op-amps?? (In what universe?)

Search Term:  differentiation op-amps
Search Engine: Yahoo
Results: 23700

http://www.ee.nmt.edu/~wedeward/EE212L/SP03/lab07.html (http://www.ee.nmt.edu/~wedeward/EE212L/SP03/lab07.html)

No more of this garbage. I will not respond further. You are speaking to the air.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 25, 2008, 05:25:05 AM
Three pages almost completely wasted......... and worse, a monumental waste of my time and effort, except for maybe a few....

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 25, 2008, 05:28:52 AM
I like you, Paul!  You have salt - moxy - Grumption!  LOL!

Attitudinal - now we are getting somewhere!  Come on Paul - room for two on a ten foot board - Whooo-hooo!!!

In reference to Tesla's patents for radiant energy - I'll clarify something for your benefit.  The sun spouts out huge quantities of RE - Tesla discovered how to produce this effect himself.  Look at the subsequent patents.

Have you ever seen Naudin's replication of Dollard's TEM - LMD demonstration?  Notice that the LMD circuit looks very much like a balanced high pass filter - only difference is the extra inductors.  What travels faster than EM?  LMD - Ding ding ding - we have a winner...

Explain the differentiated pulse - in what frame of reference.   I told you how to use it.  Does it matter how it works?  Hell, those little Grey Dudes don't even know what an electron is and they are all over the damn Galaxy.  All they know is that it works.

G

Yes, grumpy, you are the master, the authority, the one guru here whom has complete and infallible understanding of all you survey. Your understanding of Tesla's works has relegated you into the position of religious leader for all Teslites.

All anyone has to do is go back in this very thread to discover that, concerning Tesla's own definition of radiant energy, his words were quoted, YOU stated his words incorrect.

They were quoted directly from his own patent dealing with the subject, not just some "BS" on the web. Nice try, or should I say nice foot in mouth..

Concerning the wave phenomena, you were the only one right, which was VERY surprising. However, it changes nothing, as you would understand if you bothered to understand my initial posts. I SAID it was common. Now, you actually did post the common term for a common effect. You want a star? To quote you, "Whoop-de-dooo".

No kidding that a common effect has a common term also associated with it.

I have sense, and now I intend to refuse to respond to your posts which are "attitudinal", to use slang.

Why, when SM stated this device works off of magnetic fields, should I be concerned with RE?

You have also in the hubbard coil thread stated a position of mine wrong because of harmonics, and you referred as proof to the "magnifying transmitter" as proof. The only problem is that there is no evidence whatsoever linking the TPU tech with the magnifying transmitter tech. NONE.

I already stated I am tired of this, and more than hinted that your refusal to attempt to communicate with me is fine, actually more than just merely fine, it is desirable.

I didn't say you were MIB, just that it is a possibility. I stated quite clearly that I assume you are POSERS. However, without proof nothing is truly ruled out, since what you do has the same overall effect..

Good going.... You figured it out.

Now explain it, how it affects fields within the circuit, how it affects current flow, etc......

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 25, 2008, 05:48:08 AM
Differentiation has NOTHING to do with op-amps?? (In what universe?)

You never even hear of a differentiator before I mentioned it - Mr. Extranious Cranial Capacity.

A "passive differentiator circuit" (no op-amp in your circuit is there? no active components?) is usually a series capacitor and a shunt resistor. (See attached.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_differentiator_circuit

Ooooh - that right was like a sledge hammer - so take a knee and look it up again - Mr. Sherlock.

G

You are speaking to the air.

Not the "Air" - I am speaking to an idiot! - LOL!!!!
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 25, 2008, 05:53:33 AM
Three pages almost completely wasted......... and worse, a monumental waste of my time and effort, except for maybe a few....

You learned more in those three pages than in three years.

By the way,  SM did not know that a field other than the magnetic and electric fields exists.  I bet he does now.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 25, 2008, 05:59:34 AM

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 25, 2008, 06:09:22 AM

@Ponyt,

I understand what your saying however to me it does not account for the way Paul
made the connections. I'm still thinking  my orginal post is closer even though
I did not get the correct voltage levels.

Your bucking coils I buy, but they are not bifilar and reflect the connection Paul

The schematics will hopefully illustrate what I'm saying.

I appreciate your work in posting the models and hope you can see my point.

-Duff

@Paul,

you're right about your generator, my mistake. what threw me was your statement (i took it as fact) that you were getting 12V spikes, when in fact if you look at your scope shot again, you'll see that you are getting +10 and - 10V spikes. your scope gnd is not centered so you are actually showing +12V and - 8V. The difference is 20V, just as you would expect from +/- 5V input.

if i was to go back and change my generator to -5V and +5V, I would get the very same scope shot you have Paul.

so we're back to square one as far as i'm concerned. we got differentiation, nothing more. also, are you saying Paul that you already knew that your output was differentiation?

btw, wrt op-amps, the term is "differential amplifier", meaning difference amplifier. a mathematical difference. "differentiation" on the other hand is wrt computing the mathematical derivative of the input. they are not the same thing.

@ Duff,

Paul's drawing is showing 2 coils only, not 4. please correct your drawing. my schematic shows 2 coils (the transformer), and they are connected in phase reverse of each other.

my coils are closer to bifilar than Paul's are. Paul purposely did not wind his bifilar.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: duff on July 25, 2008, 06:48:35 AM

@ Duff,

Paul's drawing is showing 2 coils only, not 4. please correct your drawing. my schematic shows 2 coils (the transformer), and they are connected in phase reverse of each other.

my coils are closer to bifilar than Paul's are. Paul purposely did not wind his bifilar.

@poynt99

Sorry, perhaps there is a gross misinterpretation on my part but I interpret the 4 circles in Pauls drawing as 2 bifilar coils and each bifilar has a seperate connection.

Look at the connections.

no 1 is connected to the outer circle and the inner most circle, L1 & L2 in my schematic.
no 2 is connected to the - well you see.

I count 4, so if it was intended as something else then my mistake.

I never dreamed this little explanation could go on this long - sure you didn't either. Sorry Paul.....

-Duff

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 25, 2008, 06:48:40 AM
@Poynt99

Yes, I knew in this instance that they would be differentiated. This system cannot oscillate, it cannot reflect, therefore only the differentiation effect is allowed in these coils at even close to what ordinarily would be a resonant or harmonic.

Differentiation by design, you might say.

We know that this effect also oscillates in a untuned coil circuit. Think of the spike resonating to nothing on the top of the square wave. You have seen it a thousand times, and it is a consequence of the initial effect. You see the spike at much lower voltage level, but caused initially by the same physical principles that caused the differentiated wave demonstrated by the scope shot, but allowed to resonate.

I warned everyone outright that what I was referring to was a common effect.

This resonation damps out normally, in an ordinary resonant coil circuit.

A "tuned" resonant circuit should give higher spike voltages and much higher oscillation for the duration of the half-wave.

Now, this is in consideration of just one frequency.

If you add in two more frequencies which are integrals of the first, they WILL combine (integrate). However, they will also have their OWN "spikes", and inherent oscillations.

Put this derivative "frequency" into a tuned resonant circuit......... and you should end up with a square wave with the top consisting of "kicks" . The waveform would resemble pulsed "spikes".

You may or may not agree with me up to this point, but it is the principle I am trying to demonstrate.

Why is it important? If it is accurate, then the apparent power changes. Notice I am making distinction of apparent verses real.

I refer to the principle that a coil can only react so fast to any change, and a coil already resonating to a given base frequency cannot at the drop of a hat change its resonance. The coil should "see" a square wave with the top being the peaks of the spikes. Changes which happen too fast for reaction times can cause interesting effects. It is "apparent" in that there is no real change of input power, but the coil "sees" itself being hit with more electrical force.

At the very least, do you understand? (Not agree, just understand.)

Concerning the op-amp resistor capacitor in series to op-amp - . Resistor from op-amp - to out. Op-amp + to gnd. Feed square wave to -..... The simplest way I know to differentiate a wave, and come up with an almost identical waveform to what I posted. Yes I know differentiation is  mathematical, and so is integration which is related. Both differentiation and integration are usable wave functions achievable with op-amps, as well as amplification. So yes, you can differentiate a wave using op-amps, and that is what I was referring to.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 25, 2008, 07:15:48 AM
@Duff

Now I see. You thought I posted four coils with my schematic. No there are just two single pancake, non-bifilar coils used for the experiment.

I had to use two circles to demonstrate the inner and outer windings of each coil. I am lousy at free-handed drawing of spirals in MSpaint.

It is not your fault, it is mine. Sorry for the confusion.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: duff on July 25, 2008, 07:42:48 AM
@Duff

Now I see. You thought I posted four coils with my schematic. No there are just two single pancake, non-bifilar coils used for the experiment.

I had to use two circles to demonstrate the inner and outer windings of each coil. I am lousy at free-handed drawing of spirals in MSpaint.

It is not your fault, it is mine. Sorry for the confusion.

Paul Andrulis

@Paul

Wheeee...what a ride.

Well thank you for clearing that up.

-Duff
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 25, 2008, 08:07:23 AM
@duff

Wheeeee.... (I feel it to my bones...)

In a situation where as much energy as possible is self canceling, not one has noticed that, wave differentiation-definitions-add infenitum, CEMF and opposing fields should have killed the spike deader than disco. Quite literally almost all of the energy should have been used in negating field action and the rest by cemf.

We are not talking about capacitance-resistor shunts, not op-amps, nor pure mathematics, just two simple coils, and a series short duration 10v or so spikes which shouldn't exist, or at least be damped into almost non-existance.

The experiment which led me to this was almost identical in construction, and was built to examine the magnetic field effects of this type of a coil setup with an eye towards field rotation. I found the differentiation, and had to say then "what the heck?".

Though I knew it would in this experiment, because of my previous experiment, sharp, pure differentiation to the best of my knowledge should not have occurred.

I mean, you put a resistor in a circuit, you expect a voltage drop. You place a capacitor, you expect a blockage of DC. What is it you feel, when you measure a circuit, and all of a sudden the resistor has voltage gain, or the capacitor is conducting DC without an internal short?

EM maybe posted something to consider, I will have to ponder his words.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 25, 2008, 04:54:11 PM
im at the point where you guys bore me lol

im no longer gonna add infos here ....

you dont use it anyways

my mot is just about finished look for my pictures ...

seams to do as i wanted it to ....

do tell me im wrong ...

so how will i start my tpu with out the use of a battery can it be done  :P

sure it can im gonna use a bbq igniter to fill my caps from a pluse or 2 then i will hook my switching motor to the oput put of the cap when the motor starts to spinn all after that is FREE ENGERY DUH!!

as i said my mots donot consume engery   only my motor ....and hey i may just drop a coil on top of the rotating magnetic switch to generate extra engery  for well i dont know cuz i CAN!!!

IST  8)

OOOPSSS  DID I JUST CLOSE THE LOOP  8)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 25, 2008, 11:07:31 PM
it looks like there's nothing more i can help with here, so it's back to square one for me (not that we really left square one LOL)

thanks for doing the test though Paul.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: giantkiller on July 26, 2008, 04:29:58 AM
Sorry to see you guys waste so much time. Its already done...
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2702.msg39862.html#msg39862

Somewhere else he even states he came up with the iron wire bundle. Really? I thought I copied NT390721 patent with Steven Mark's recommendation? I even gave tribute to those two.

So lets see here. For those in the know and not. We have an inordinate amount of time go by and all we have is the good people chased off, the constant stream of new die hards, blow hards, gurus of dust, and those that possibly know.
Conversations of intense knowledge, bitching, cross words, protectionism, and battle plans. All traps. And what a waste. The world could have been changed by now. But no! Little kingdoms must stand. And your fellow man kicked around. Goddamn shame and pitiful.

I ended up in a wheelchair in 1996 but I am not as crippled as the brotherhood in any of these threads.
And when it is all said and done, someone in the background is waiting to scoop up the pieces and walk into history.
You'll be too burned out to know what happened. Your hands tightly gripping some pipe dream of an idea that you got it. When it slipped through your fingers a while back.

Hit anything with pulsed DC. Do any of you know how many times that chorus has sung? Try cracking mercury in a vaccum. Do you realize you have the knowledge to crack a diamond without touching it mechanically? When you hit copper too hard the field shoots on the outside up the coil. The pressure is too great for the copper to conduct. Tesla said 'Low current'.

--giantkiller. Really. Can we move on now? The coil has already been invented.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 26, 2008, 04:56:59 AM
the last few pages of this thread has not been a waste at all. i and many others i am sure learned something, including Paul, even though most wouldn't admit it.

the one good thing about doing an experiment that fails to show what you're looking for, is that you have eliminated one more of the many possibilities.

i've read the end game thread. i found it void of any new ideas that weren't already posted. there was no formula or recipe. i sure got the impression that there would be by the title. all generalizations, which is easy to do once you understand the basics, not to say they are correct though. just generalizations.

one last comment; what Paul did here, even though i feel it ended up showing only standard electrical theory agreeing with practice, was to tackle the problem of the kick head-on. this was good work, and i've only seen a few do this in one form or another. that is, to attack the kick specifically and post the results, later discussing them.

i think there is only one thing to do at this point in time---move on
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 26, 2008, 05:53:03 AM
i think there is only one thing to do at this point in time---move on

Paul isn't done yet.  He's got Grumpion!

Grumpy raises his mug - which appears to hold about three pints - proposes a toast to this thread and gulps it down without a breath - slams his mug on the bar and expells an earth rattling belch...with a solemn breath he proclaims: use those pulses or stay in your Matrix - then falls off the bar stool with a thud.

Ball's in your court - PD.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 26, 2008, 05:59:44 AM
LOL

in the mean time, i wonder if anyone can figure out how this guy performed this trick.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 26, 2008, 07:37:09 AM
a good post loner, thanks.

the reason why i wouldn't use this as a source of fast HV pulses, is because there are much better ways to do that. i think you probably already know and would agree with that.

Paul's experiment here (my understanding of it anyway) was to investigate if this circuit would reveal the kick SM talks about, nothing more.

if you want HV spikes, let Lenz's law do it's thing with a coil of wire. or use a HV DC supply switched with a HV FET. etc.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 26, 2008, 09:43:08 AM
Why nobody tested obvious idea : how those kicks are modified by arrangement in space and by changing place. Measure it in normal envinronment and take it to the place with Earth magnetic anomaly. This should proof that Earth magnetic field is the source of those kicks.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Vortex1 on July 26, 2008, 02:53:21 PM
Quote
in the mean time, i wonder if anyone can figure out how this guy performed this trick.

I'll take this on:

He modified the power outlet strip by:
1. Cutting the internal wires from the outlet receptacles to the plug. Then he shorted the wires from the receptacles.

2. He replaced the neon with a LED and wired it with a small battery so that the plug and switch complete the circuit to the LED, but only when plugged into the shorted receptacles.

3. The vacuun cleaner has been rewired so that an extra plug is wired in series with the original (hidden) line cord.

4. The illusion of plugging the extra (fake) line cord into the receptacle merely completes the circuit to the vacuum.

SM may have used a similar illusion with the large lamps, where the wall receptacle was disconnected from the AC power and jumpered to merely completed a circuit through the lamps with hidden batteries and small inverter in the bases. His device output also had a short circuit which completed the current path into the lamps. A small oscillator in the device gave some voltage reading to the speaker terminals, but SM never actually measured the voltage at the output of the device, we all assumed it was the same as the speaker terminals.

....V
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 26, 2008, 02:59:07 PM
the kick as i see it

imagine a bubble  like our ionasphere  now make a bubble inside that bubble like a magnetic feild ok got that colapse that bubble what is the result?  the big bubble that this takes place inside will push upon the collapsed bubble and some engery will be expelled from the big bubble to make up the space of where the little bubble was ... and if this was air inside the bubble  and you had a valve like a 1 way valve upon the colapse of the bubble u could draw air from the big bubble as the pressure is higher in the big bubble

well that was a mess but i tryed

lol

ist

ill give her another go when i collect my thoughts....
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 26, 2008, 04:52:01 PM
@Loner

i'm not moaning and i'm not tired of the question because in my mind it still has not been answered. so i'm glad you asked.

your first option is the best one; SM did say the kicks of themselves are OU. it is a small amount, but the idea is to create many thousand of them and have them combine (i assume in time) into one big current kick. then the goal is to have these big kicks (unipolar) happen in close enough spacing that for all intents and purposes, we measure DC with a meter. this is all SM, not me. i assume this "big kick" rate is the 5kHz or 6kHz rate that SM mentions.

is timing critical? imo based on the given clues, yes. is the device pulse-like both on input and output? imo based on the given clues, yes. SM said toa's capacitive discharge (pulse) is the key. is more than one frequency required to get many small kicks combining into one big one? from the clues, yes.

this should be review for most.

is rotation of field required in the process to make either the small kicks or the big kicks, OR is rotation of field a result of these processes going on? i don't know.

i'll just stop here. the bottom line is imo we're still at step 1; revealing the kick.

also Loner, if we go by what SM said, and ONLY by what SM said (which i highly recommend), then we are looking for a slight increase of current as the kick.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on July 26, 2008, 04:58:25 PM
I think to understand the kick we have to go to a third electrical phenomenon controlling field.  Gravity is an effect of this field.  This field is a flowing field of information.   It is a streaming flow of information as to the electrical density of reality.  Bascially imparting viscosity parameters to electrical phenomenon.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 26, 2008, 05:14:12 PM
@sparks

how the hell does this techno-babble help us reveal the kick  ???

man we're trying to do real down-to-earth stuff with real hardware here.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Spider on July 26, 2008, 05:25:34 PM
Wanna see a kick, build a kickcoil.. ;D ;D

Greetings Spider
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on July 26, 2008, 05:31:52 PM
@Poynt

Well it will give you an idea as  to how this electrical information will be distributed into your circuit.   The mass of the earth alters the viscosity parameters of an electrical circuit as does the conductor mass field and the dielectric mass surrounding and in the circuit.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on July 26, 2008, 05:32:46 PM
REFLECTED POST  ???

Well it will give you an idea as  to how this electrical information will be distributed into your circuit.   The mass of the earth alters the viscosity parameters of an electrical circuit as does the conductor mass field and the dielectric mass surrounding and in the circuit.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 26, 2008, 05:36:02 PM
Wanna see a kick, build a kickcoil.. ;D ;D

Greetings Spider

or just grab 4 lawn mower ign coils lol put then on a RMF lol  that runs off a cupple watch batteries lol

ist

then zap a big battery or a cap 8)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Spider on July 26, 2008, 05:42:19 PM
Or go outside in a thunderstorm, with a big iron pole in your hands, and wait a for while....

Greetings Spider.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on July 26, 2008, 06:11:33 PM

We drop a rock on the surface of a pool we get waves of energy to the edge of the pool due to the differential viscosity between air and water.

We drop a rock under the water we get vortex currents.

I'd say the viscosity parameters of an energy circuit are quite important.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: giantkiller on July 26, 2008, 06:34:25 PM
Bascially imparting viscosity parameters to electrical phenomenon.

Yes. We see nothing in the space. But you move it you create potential / potentiallity.
That  is why I mentioned the mercury in a vaccum. I am using light switch vials. At a very high speed input it looks like a crystal.
Don't even try that experiment. At the speed that fracturing occurs, glass looks like jello. The mercury will shatter in all directions. A Hutchison micro experiment. The mercury can't move that fast so it shatters. Hit it with a hammer instead. Slower speed.

High speed, low voltage. Raise the voltage lower the speed. And anything inbetween. One just has to find the material that responds in a band of operation.
The kick? It's there. Space reflects back a thousand fold. Like any other medium it represents resistance to us and wants to be balanced at the band or place of existance where that material resides. We are jacking it out of place. Physically and with frequency. 8) That is why fast off times are needed. We alleviate the opposing pressure quickly so the displaced material can return quickly. It kicks when it crosses it normal place of balance and rings in quiesence showing a damped wave.
And the things that exist right beside respond too. Ripples. You cause equal waves in water and every 7th one is taller. Amusement water parks have to stop their wave machines every so often because of the power build up of the contained water. Got kicks? We don't produce them they occur via the harmonics or speed at which we ring the destination material. No different than a steel handrail in a stairwell producing echoes. ;)

The fastest current is spark gap. The highest voltage is flyback or ignition coil. This was productive.

--giantkiller. Got Keely?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on July 26, 2008, 08:59:39 PM
The spark gap is unique as it is capable of altering all three parameters of the electrical conductor field in one event.   The dielectric information / the magnetic information (inertial electrical information)/ and the electrical density of the conductor field (gap). I remember somewhere of reading that Tesla found the orientation of his disruptor to the primary of his transformers was real important.  I wonder if SM's tpu's control windings are an attempt to make a big spark gap in which he inserts a collector winding.  Altering the dielectric magnetic and density of the interior of the solenoidal coil wherein lies a collector mass.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 26, 2008, 08:59:51 PM
Wanna see a kick, build a kickcoil.. ;D ;D

Greetings Spider

Ahh, perhaps there is a glimmer of hope....someone actually listening to Spherics posting of the kick coil using a delay pulse.  So strange that no one will listen and even experiment with his second post.

Sometimes, I suspect that some here are afraid to actually find out how the TPU really does work.  But glad to see that not all.

Cheers all,

Bruce
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 26, 2008, 09:05:33 PM
the kick as i see it

imagine a bubble  like our ionasphere  now make a bubble inside that bubble like a magnetic feild ok got that colapse that bubble what is the result?  the big bubble that this takes place inside will push upon the collapsed bubble and some engery will be expelled from the big bubble to make up the space of where the little bubble was ... and if this was air inside the bubble  and you had a valve like a 1 way valve upon the colapse of the bubble u could draw air from the big bubble as the pressure is higher in the big bubble

well that was a mess but i tryed

lol

ist

ill give her another go when i collect my thoughts....

It's hard to follow your explanations especially when English is not my native language, but I feel you are right.
Actually THERE IS ONE BIG PROOF that such a process is going on many times . It is aurora borealis, and most precise it is bow shock effect which fluctuations are aurora borealis.It is exactly what is needed - recreate bow shock very fast then remove the cause, magnetic field will deflect changes as a kick, which may be converted into electricity. This kick is radiant energy, which interacting with matter causing many secondary effects mostly called radiant matter like ionization or plasma. The same radiant matter is in solar wind - a cause of bow shock effect.

Now radiant energy is cool , while radiant matter (effect of reaction of radiant energy with matter) is hot. Electricity is unnatural mix of cool and hot radiant, when hot radiant we call 'electrons flow', but it's merely an effect of the true electricity reason - radiant energy.

You should know it by reading SM comments about multiple currents flowing in the same wire - the nature of electricity is not 'electrical' , it is magnetic...

I hope that I explained my idea clearly.Radiant energy = kick = wave in magnetic field = part or electricity (the true nature). Earth magnetic field deformation is one and maybe the only cause for all free energy devices.While a kick is common in all electric circuits the only energy excess may be due to positive feedback with Earth magnetic field and deflection of fast dismissed bow shock.

- closed path concept
- ground shorting excess energy
- replacing vacuum tubes and germanium diodes  with silicon ones
- replacing pancake type coils with current ones where each layer is opposite to previous (isn't that correct ?)
- replacing RTV with LCD

I know it may looks crazy, as it's all (or looks like) a big progress on the other side...

Please correct me if I'm wrong

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Spider on July 26, 2008, 09:26:44 PM
Well Bruce,

Here is a simple experiment everybody can do.

It is about the infamous iron delay coils.

Tho you have to go into the nanoseconds to see it, its worth it. :)

greetings Spider

PS, I never said I would post anything usefull, I just wanted to show off my equipment LOL
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on July 26, 2008, 11:05:18 PM
@forest

I belive that the Earth and the Sun are mass systems that differentially channel the electrical density information of the cosmos.  Beyond the bow shock from solar wind we have two different kinds of vortexes or torsion fields in the river of the tempic field.  These two vortexes are continually interacting with each other and give rise to gravity effects.  To confuse things even further we have the moon thrown in there along with orbits and rotations.  The tempic river ain't lazy river round here.

@ Spider

I want to replicate your experiment but use a hf torridal transformer in series with the pulse generator.  Maybe bypass all that and use the electric spark ignitor I have for my OxyAcetelyne rig.

This idea courtesy of GK's stungun experiment.  It seems to elicit a "Kick" no matter where you invest your milliwatt muscle contraction impulse signal.  ;D
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 26, 2008, 11:57:45 PM
Ok Spider, that's a nice display, assuming the scope inputs are of equal setting.

Here's my problem.  If I "assume" an iron delay coil is in use in the SM device, it would be in the Collector, because
the control coils are obvious.  Now we must feed the Collector?

I'm really trying to stick with visible items on the smaller SM units, so I can stick with what I can see.  This may not
be an effective method, but it's where I'm at.  Of course one can create a "Kick" the way you did.  If this IS the mode
of operation, then the "Kick" coil is the collector, and the Input signal is from the Control coils, then there is still a
different situation going on here.  (Not normal induction into Collector....)

Maybe the idea is the "Kick" coil is the seperate "Torrid"?

I'm still not saying wrong or right, but to me, it would be visable if the control coils were not "Lamp Wire" and/or had
Iron wire mixed in.  I can therefore eliminate that from the control coils, no question.

Also, was it SM who said the "Kicks" were OU, or was it the follow up people?  Not to say they are wrong, but I was
under a different impression.  SM DID infer that, but I didn't think those words were used.  He DID state the "Kick"
he was using was a Current Kick, and yet most of the "Good" designs are using voltage pulses to produce the
"Kick".

Not to repeat myself, but I still see two non-convergent methods here.  I guess it's up to me to test and prove one
way or another.  (Note:  Spiders "Iron" delay coil is GREAT.  Will any of the "Voltage Pulse" proponents explain
how it could possibly be used if NO magnetic materials should be in the device?)

Here is my "Real - World" problem AGAIN.  Divergent designs.  I cannot seem to produce a kick, without a "Delay"
of an actual signal, and no matter how much I play with "Pure Copper" coils, the elusive "Kick" will not appear.  I
can produce many interesting effects, but NOT the simple effect spider just showed.  Add a little iron delay coil,
and it's a different story, but the two methods I mentioned can't be reconciled.

THere is either Iron in the device or not.  I need a little help here, for I don't think anyone has stated HOW to do
this without the Iron, using the "Kick".  The original Spherics post is fantastic, as mentioned, but precludes the
use of iron in the system, meaning that "Kick" production is using that "Comp" field, as described in that post.
This is an aether-based device, and probably a better design, by a long shot, but it IS NOT an SM TPU.

I can't make it much clearer than that.  I realize I'm not the best with words, but logic inside me is my best
strength, and there is a confusion factor here.  I don't WANT to skip by SM to go the Aether Route, as posted.

If I not making myself and my question clear, then I guess I'm on my own till I have test data to back up anything
either way.  Hopefully, I can Reproduce Spiders effect in a collector via Mag or Electrostatic induction.  That
Iron wire would run hot as heck, but at least I would know what was up.  The ONLY thing I can be sure of
rightnow is that there is NO IRON in the Control coils on the small open units from SM, and that those coils
aren't big enough to form an aetheric vortex with the simple circuitry seen on the device.  (It seems...)

Any other helpful hints.  Obviously, I'm gonna have to wind and test this today, just to prove to myself that
I can obtain a "Kick" in an Iron coil, without directly sending in a signal.  If it's induced via Cap effect or
inductive effect is secondary.  This all assumes the "Kick" is directly OU, of which I am not fully convinced
either way, YET!  ;D ;D

OK, maybe I'm too thick headed, but I have to follow my feelings on this one, at least for a while.

Art.

Hello everyone,

We don't have to assume that the delay pulse is in the collector, because it is not.

The collector is just that.  Collects electrons (current) through a process that is similar to induction (but not ;)  )  The collector is separated from the control coils by space (distance) not wired to the control coils at all.  The collector is the output coil.  I had said that all along on my old thread, and Spherics confirmed it in his second post.

Step 1:
Visualize an anomalous "signal" of HF that appears where it should not be.  The "kick".  This "signal" or "kick" is s peek at the Ether (space, dark energy, ) being touched and radiant energy is produced.

The "signal" or "kick" is not very useful, so a way had to be figured out how to use this anomalous "signal", this litte bit of extra power that should not have been there.  It was also found that an anomalous magnetic field, of greater strength than should have been there, is also produced on the North end of the "bifilar coil".

Step 2:
SM then figured out a way to produce the anomalous "kick" or "signal" hundreds of thousands of times a second.

He set up a collector, not wired to the sometimes three and sometimes four, and sometimes two "delay pulse coils", depending on the particular design of the TPU.  This collector was made of stranded wire to increase the surface area for the collection of this current.

The "delay pulse coils", be it 2, 3, or 4, each had to be rotated with 120 degree phase shift.  This produced rotation.  As the anomalous "signal" or "kick" was produced in each "delay pulse coil" and rotated, the North end of each coil produced an increased magnetic field.  Spherics called this a "comp field".  (reference Marco's dancing magnets)  As the control coils (called such, because the "controller" pulsed and rotated them.) were spun, a current, DC, was produced on the collector.

SM used three collectors most of the time.  These "output" coils could then be wired in series for more voltage, or in parallel for more amperage output, or a mixture of both.

All of this is in Spherics second post, and Steven Mark's writings.

Mannix, Grumpy, myself and others have been asking everyone to experiment with Spherics second post on his thread.

Total members of OU.com:  13,899
Total members who are working on this in the public forum, Spider.

Grumpy has been trying to give some of you the physics to get you there, but few seem to listen.

Mannix has also said to try Spherics experiments as laid out in his second post, but alas, few seem to listen.  And Mannix would know.

If you want to experiment, experiment with Spherics second post.  If you want to build his tetrahedral from his first post, that is fine, though it is more difficult.  If you need help, ask on the forum and one of the guys will help you.

Happy experimenting,

Bruce
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 27, 2008, 01:13:30 AM
Where is original Spheric post ? Could we simplify thing to one bifilar coil ? I think I might encounter this effect, at least I  have Bedini SSG  working in self-oscillation mode ,now hmm maybe I should add somewhere a collector coil ?
I have found this interesting also that using high frequency field superimposed on even low voltage DC like 18V it is possible to charge quite a nice capacitors very fast. I have already checked 10uF/250V cap charged to 250V in no time.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 27, 2008, 01:20:07 AM
now were getting some where..... ;D ;D

good job forest

ist

now forest if you could discharge that to a primary of low selfinduction wound on the collector coil what would be the result?  out put out the secondary ?

and this would then be hot electricty or normal electricty the out put of the seccondary?

im intrested in hearing your results  8)

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 27, 2008, 01:36:57 AM
Please, where can I find Spheric posts ? I don't understand those two pictures. They looks to me like Tesla experiments with displacement currents. If this is true that what I'm missing is the advantage of toroid core and rotating magnetic fields.
Hmm,it can't be so easy...

Open path vs closed path...  How would you enlarge displacement current and convert it back to ordinary hot current ?

Is open path and high frequency oscillation the key and magnetic fields and toroid core only an engineering choice to maintain it ? In other words : could we implement the simplest device first ?

Does someone has a knowledge if capacitors are used in TPU ?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 27, 2008, 02:18:28 AM
i would tend to think that some translating device must be used  ;)

a cap a battery....

ist
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: forest on July 27, 2008, 02:18:49 AM
now were getting some where..... ;D ;D

good job forest

ist

now forest if you could discharge that to a primary of low selfinduction wound on the collector coil what would be the result?  out put out the secondary ?

and this would then be hot electricty or normal electricty the out put of the seccondary?

im intrested in hearing your results  8)

first I have to learn how to wind collector coil, but I suspect that it will be hot electricity , because cap seems to convert it easily
however it may be too slow in case of my SSG (to low DC voltage)
Tesla used a coil with primary containing many turns of THIN INSULATED wire and a SECONDARY of coarse wire, but he described this experiment using quite contrary statements so amount of current or energy obtained in such a process is unknown. However if that amount is far greater then we expected .... ? Anyway he didn't explained where is this current accumulated and I bet it is in insulated plate. Bigger insulated plate connected to the coil terminal means bigger displacement current produced.

From Steven Mark texts I've always thought what he wanted to say by those words :

"Anyway, I have taken a high voltage power supply as follows:
500 v-0-500 v 300 mV plate transformer run it through a full wave silicon circuit then run it through a 5U4 electron tube rectifier.
Now you know that the 5U4 requires 5 volts AC at 3 amps for its heater to gather the electrons and complete the circuit.
Well, I measured the output from the tube and the result is 500 volts DC at 250 mV.
The loss is due to the high impedance of the tube and its limited ability to dissipate more than 250 mA..
The point I wish to make here is that also along with the 500 volt DC is, yes, you guessed it, the 5 volts three amp AC current!
They are both completely independent of each other except for some very interesting things I will mention to you some other time..
First of all, obviously you can have several different output components in the power output signal.
You can have DC and AC together without any problem"

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 27, 2008, 02:31:08 AM
Please, where can I find Spheric posts ? I don't understand those two pictures. They looks to me like Tesla experiments with displacement currents. If this is true that what I'm missing is the advantage of toroid core and rotating magnetic fields.
Hmm,it can't be so easy...

Open path vs closed path...  How would you enlarge displacement current and convert it back to ordinary hot current ?

Is open path and high frequency oscillation the key and magnetic fields and toroid core only an engineering choice to maintain it ? In other words : could we implement the simplest device first ?

Does someone has a knowledge if capacitors are used in TPU ?

Hi Forest,

Here is the thread he started.  He only posted six times in it.  The first post is his, but you want the second post on page 2 or 3, can't remember.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4297.msg83207.html#msg83207

Cheers,

Bruce

P.S.  I drew the pictures above.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 27, 2008, 04:36:22 AM
Well Bruce,

Here is a simple experiment everybody can do.

It is about the infamous iron delay coils.

Tho you have to go into the nanoseconds to see it, its worth it. :)

greetings Spider

PS, I never said I would post anything usefull, I just wanted to show off my equipment LOL

hi spider.

what are we looking at there?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 27, 2008, 06:26:12 AM
hi spider.

what are we looking at there?

iron delays the pulse - stretches it out - slows it down
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 27, 2008, 06:51:48 AM

in your drawing 1, where do you scope it? A-B, A+B, A AND B, A only, B only, which one?

in your drawing 2 you've used the spherics idea and configured it for the Steven Mark version i'm guessing. the kick coils, they are 3 separate coils with their own delay coils. ok, got that. are the 3 kick coils wound as toroidal coils sharing the same toroid form, or are they pointing toward the toroid from outside of it?

it looks to me like you are pointing the 3 control (kick) coils inward toward the toroid.

i'm open to these ideas, but 3 things don't equate to what SM told/showed us:

1. the collector is poloidal, yours/spherics is toroidal
2. the control coils are toroidal around the poloidal collector, your controls are separate solenoid coils pointing inward
3. SM calls for a frequency and 2 of its harmonics. spherics calls for 1 phase-shifted frequency.

appreciate any help on these points/questions.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 27, 2008, 07:51:39 AM
@Loner

I just returned, and am now reading yours, and everyone else's replies.

As to wearing out your welcome. That would be difficult. You speak sense, and are asking highly relevant questions.

Personally, I think the effects (shown by spider) are duplicable through field manipulation using standard copper. It is starting to seem amazing to me what you can make a field do with nothing more than square waves (voltage limited pulses).

I am going to try your diode concept and see if I cannot integrate the pulses. If I succeed I will post the results. If not, I will let you know.

I also have some other ideas how this might be accomplished which I will experiment with. We'll see.

Time generally determines which concept of many is true.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on July 27, 2008, 07:56:18 AM
Tesla transformers use a mass equivalence relationship between the pulsed primary and the radiating secondary.  He also stored energy in his coils by use of series connected bifilar coils.  This increased both the number of turns and by series connecting caused a considerable increase in voltage between turns.  Squaring then doubling the energy stored in the coil by use of bifilar coils.

Sm's solenoidal control windings appear to be designed so that a highfrequency pulse train is imposed on a bifilar wound solenoid coil which would be matched to optimise storage of the voltage.

Perhaps the mass ratio of the control winding mass to the collector mass should be one to one.  And also an eye to the orientation of the solenoid to the earth mass.  (Electrical Density Information of the Earth has been said to flow at a 45 degree angle.  I am sure that it is different all over the globe and varys with altitude.)

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 27, 2008, 08:20:30 AM
@ Loner,

i asked a lot of these same questions a few months ago shortly after spherics posted, but there were no responses. so i've asked for help from Bruce and the boys. let's hope they oblige.

i'm also quite curious about spider's scope shots. i'm terrible at reading minds and even worse deciphering people's intentions with some of their their posts, so i'm hoping spider will spell out how his coil is made, what he's using to drive it, and how the complete circuit looks, including where the scope shots are from and the settings etc.

i'm not trying to tick people off by asking, but it amazes me how often posts like spider's are made with no real details given. i wonder what is the point if no information is conveyed about it? is it just to show off? hope not.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Spider on July 28, 2008, 02:05:07 PM
@Bruce,

Thank you! I try..

@Poynt
I made a simple 30 turn coil on a pvc pipe, 32 mm dia, from iron wire I bought at the DIY store.
Just to get some experience with coils and scopes and generators. Made some 10 turn, 20 turn too.
6 months ago I owned nothing more then a multimeter. One end is in the pulse gen, other end is connected to the scope. The second channel of the scope is in the pulse gens TTL. Pulse gen is 10 MHZ.

@Art,
The pic Bruce draw says a lot, its valuable info!! The lower one with the 3 bifilar is a representation of what you see in the vids. I hope you can make the connection.
Stop worrying about the source of the excess energy for a while.

@Sparks,

I would like to see it with high voltage. I dont want to ruin my scopes...Yet... LOL

Greetings Spider.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on July 28, 2008, 03:00:26 PM
Tesla starts off stating in his disclosure patent on bifilar wound coils,  that a tuned circuit will pass hf currents with only ohmic losses.  Then he states that capacitors are a pain in the ass to keep maintained. So he describes a process wherein he uses bifilar wound coils with series connection of the elements to build the capacitance into the coil.  He goes on and desribes a coil with a 1000 turns and 10 volts potential between turns. So he is pulsing the coil and looking at each turn as a capacitor.  Then the patent goes and describes the bifilar gain in capacity by developing more voltage between each turn and between element turns.  Then he states "the energy stored now in the coil as a whole will now be two hundred and fitfy
thousand as great."

What this is telling me is that instead of the hf or kicks or nanosecond spikes altering the magnetic field
(an inertial deal) it is first eliciting then storing voltage from mass.  When determining inductance of a solenoid the surface area of the conductor is only considered not the VOLUME of the conductor.  This implies that inductance is relative to the conductors radiating surface.  No consideration is given to the energy field density within the conductor.

Charge itself is a differential distribution of energy and exists between fields of differing electrical density
Not different mass density-- different electrical density.

The kick is a catalyst so seeing it is going to be rough.  Seeing it's effect on differing mass may be more practical.  This puts us back in Faraday's lab.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: jamesneal6927 on July 28, 2008, 03:14:38 PM
@ALL

I AM A NEWBIE.  I am trying to gather all of the necessary information to put together a TPU and need some assistance.

Where can I get the specifics to get this far? Example( Material requirements for windings,Size of wire, type of wire, windings per location, etc.)

I have been reading all of this thread and MANY others.  There is a HUGE amount of information in them but I have not been able to location where it is all put together into one location, compiled so that JOE can build one.

A suggestion would be to have a living document that is changed when new discoveries are made.  This document could contain the schematics, materials, construction instructions, etc.  The authors would need to be the leading people (Paul, Otto, etc.) in this research.  They could provide their findings to an assistant and that assistant could keep the document updated.  That way they are left to continue research and not hindered by continually updating this document.

I would like to volunteer my services in this regard.  I know I'm new but as a NEWBIE I have no preconceived knowledge of what is to be said and therefore would take what is being provided and document it.  I am also new to building one of these so that would benefit the whole in that I would be asking all of the simple questions that each of you might overlook as too simple.

Thanks for all your assistance on this and please forgive my ignorance in this matter.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 28, 2008, 03:37:30 PM
Tesla starts off stating in his disclosure patent on bifilar wound coils,  that a tuned circuit will pass hf currents with only ohmic losses.  Then he states that capacitors are a pain in the ass to keep maintained. So he describes a process wherein he uses bifilar wound coils with series connection of the elements to build the capacitance into the coil.  He goes on and desribes a coil with a 1000 turns and 10 volts potential between turns. So he is pulsing the coil and looking at each turn as a capacitor.  Then the patent goes and describes the bifilar gain in capacity by developing more voltage between each turn and between element turns.  Then he states "the energy stored now in the coil as a whole will now be two hundred and fitfy
thousand as great."

What this is telling me is that instead of the hf or kicks or nanosecond spikes altering the magnetic field
(an inertial deal) it is first eliciting then storing voltage from mass.  When determining inductance of a solenoid the surface area of the conductor is only considered not the VOLUME of the conductor.  This implies that inductance is relative to the conductors radiating surface.  No consideration is given to the energy field density within the conductor.

Charge itself is a differential distribution of energy and exists between fields of differing electrical density
Not different mass density-- different electrical density.

The kick is a catalyst so seeing it is going to be rough.  Seeing it's effect on differing mass may be more practical.  This puts us back in Faraday's lab.

now that is quite intresting ....   a motor a few diffrent coils and a cap all in 1 lol  no wonder it has been such a pain in the ass to crack....

can you post the pattent you speek of Sparks

kinda sounds like one of thease  ;D ;D ;) 8)

lol

ist
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 28, 2008, 04:15:37 PM
this is the first time i have posted a close up of my cap charger  2 magnets are missing as well as 2 caps a battery is not required for operation of this unit....

i built this last fall- winter

be wise this unit produces STANDING WAVES   and they can become electrofied.....

there only 2 coils in this coil....  it works on mechanical induction and bemf or re ...

so to eliminite the standing waves use iron in it....

ist

dont get me wrong you can use a battery....   with this unit and a freq gen just 1 only 1 is needed at a freq of 2.5 hz yep you herd it slow pluses..... low input power dont touch the vibrating contacts YOU WILL KNOW IT....IF U DO

the problem is the standing wave is huge  at low freqs that is why  the tpu is tuned to the outside diamator of the torroid.... and runs on hi freq!!!!! also why the sm 17 can run on a lower freq

so how did tesla do it

i kinda think like my second pic in this post  ;)

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 28, 2008, 04:16:07 PM
This thread is like one of those Twighlight Zone episodes where the characters keep living the same day over and over.

At least five different ways to see the real "kick" have been provided to this forum and no one has bothered to try any of them.

Spider's scope does not show the "kick".
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: ramset on July 28, 2008, 04:36:33 PM
Grumpy   im not allowed to kick anything [not even the cat]self imposed restraint do to ignorance  Will stay that way till safe??? I saw your post recently on 2 coils   just a test  please if you could list a few of the posts on the Forum that will kick  Chet
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 28, 2008, 04:38:44 PM
@Poynt
I made a simple 30 turn coil on a pvc pipe, 32 mm dia, from iron wire I bought at the DIY store.
Just to get some experience with coils and scopes and generators. Made some 10 turn, 20 turn too.
6 months ago I owned nothing more then a multimeter. One end is in the pulse gen, other end is connected to the scope. The second channel of the scope is in the pulse gens TTL. Pulse gen is 10 MHZ.

so spider, is this your setup you showed?

forgive me, but to my understanding this is not a kick coil described by spherics. if it wasn't supposed to be sorry, but you did call it a "kick" coil.

there's not much you can conclude from taking a measurement with this type of setup, sorry. i must agree with grumpy, this isn't the kick either.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 28, 2008, 04:52:36 PM
thats it im digging up a vid

i posted of my scope showing a kick....

almost 1 year ago now......

ist

Reply #177 on: August 14, 2007, 03:38:34 AM ?    http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2788.160.html

i call thease kicks.....
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Spider on July 28, 2008, 04:55:15 PM
Grumpy is rigth, its not the kick, its a pulse in a coil.

@Art,

Here you go, look at the pics.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 28, 2008, 05:03:14 PM
to achive a kick

you need at least 2 coils...  both copper  or 1 copper 1 iron wire   or 1 coil with both in it and power tralveing throught it

you must interupt the power supply  upon break of the curcuit   OU  happins ...

do it slow ...  osbserve  it      it really is that easy....

then you could go crazy on better materials like ferroite and such but

easyer to understand the better ...

ist

thease are my experiences  anyways
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Spider on July 28, 2008, 05:05:20 PM
@poynt,

Thanks for the drawing :) Its just an iron wire coil.
Maybe we should all forget about this very quickly, and switch to microprocessors, much better then stupid pieces of iron wire. Cheaper too. Or we will end up in the twilight zone :)

I am almost ready with my kickcoil setup. Here's a pic. I know, of its not wood, it is not good LOL

I collected my 25x 12 volt car batteries, flybacks, 3x 4000 volt neon transformers, mosfets...
If I cannot get the thing to explode, i dont know anymore.

Greetings spider
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: ramset on July 28, 2008, 05:13:25 PM
SPIDER   nice build almost has that factory look  Chet PS which end do you light
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Spider on July 28, 2008, 05:17:31 PM
SPIDER   nice build almost has that factory look  Chet PS which end do you light

factory look, are you kidding?  ;) Its my worst ever. Also my first, have a lot to learn. Almost 2 km of wire..Hope my tetra looks better.

Greetings Spider.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 28, 2008, 05:24:53 PM
@spider

what will the results be if ....

you wraped a layor of thin sheet metal around your kick coil  then wound a control coil on top of it of finer wire many turns? hooked it up as 1 coil and intruperted the curcuit where the 2 coils meet and if you took into account the dirrection of winds and the polarity so as they repell ....

and if you had a cap at your gap it would be recharged from the re upon discharge...

hummm

im gonna look for my old hand drawings that were NEVER POSTED

im sure they are around here some where

however i made many of them and this can be wired many ways i have found 2 good ways 1 is erfinders mot tranny way  the tesla ozne generator pattend

and the other is my way from as far back as the turbo coil i built   way back
in the LOTR THRED....

ist

ever try anything like that b4?  anyone?

ist
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: mflynn44 on July 28, 2008, 06:28:41 PM
This thread is like one of those Twighlight Zone episodes where the characters keep living the same day over and over.

At least five different ways to see the real "kick" have been provided to this forum and no one has bothered to try any of them.

Spider's scope does not show the "kick".

My experience is that the kick arises at the point where the original pulse through its coil and the delayed pulse through its coils meet. We are talking of a fraction of a nanosecond delay of the delayed pulse.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on July 28, 2008, 07:49:25 PM
@innovation

Don't have the patent copy here at my office but will post it later..  Tesla would discharge his "flux capacitor" into devices of high self-inductance like electric motor coils,  which as in your signature represent a high impedance to the kick's coming from the spark gap.  Flux capacitor acting as a frequency converter.  When Deforest perfected the vacuum tube  Tesla must have been overjoyed.  Hi frequency event of tempic field energy input stashed in his flux capacitor and discharged as a low frequency energy flow into his motors lightbulbs and transformer primaries, all without the use of finicky air parameters. Just a little energy input from the tempic electrical field at high frequency ending up flowing through devices of low frequency conversion.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 28, 2008, 07:58:54 PM
@innovation

Don't have the patent copy here at my office but will post it later..  Tesla would discharge his "flux capacitor" into devices of high self-inductance like electric motor coils,  which as in your signature represent a high impedance to the kick's coming from the spark gap.  Flux capacitor acting as a frequency converter.  When Deforest perfected the vacuum tube  Tesla must have been overjoyed.  Hi frequency event of tempic field energy input stashed in his flux capacitor and discharged as a low frequency energy flow into his motors lightbulbs and transformer primaries, all without the use of finicky air parameters. Just a little energy input from the tempic electrical field at high frequency ending up flowing through devices of low frequency conversion.

awsome job sparks!!

ist
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 28, 2008, 08:05:25 PM
I have tried to impart the importance of definitions, and generally receive rebuff or rebuke.

However, I am going to break it down. First, has anyone seen what they define as "kicks" on a scope?

The reason I ask, is simple that an oscilloscope does not read amperage..... it reads voltage. Changes in measured voltage over a measured period of time, to be specific.

So, if ANYONE claims to see kicks on a scope, then a change in voltage is involved, pure and simple, or it would not register on the scope to begin with.

Now, the voltage represented on the scope does not have to be the original effect. It can be a side effect of the original effect. I say this as a sudden change in amperage causes a sudden change in voltage as well. So, a high voltage "spike" can well be caused by a sudden change in the applied current.

Now we come back to SM...

Did SM claim to see the kicks? If so on what? If on an oscilloscope, then he was looking for voltage changes.

He stated "current" kicks. This can have TWO CLOSE BUT SEPERATE MEANINGS.

1. It can mean current in the sense of amperage (they are often used synonymously)
2. It can means current in the sense of electron flow (which refers to the entire current of electricity flowing in a wire. Both Voltage and amperage.)

This is just a personal observation, but I infer from his words the second, since I believe he was using an oscilloscope to search for the effect. Being a voltage measuring device, you could never be sure that what you are viewing is a change in amperage.......

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 28, 2008, 09:04:59 PM
I have tried to impart the importance of definitions, and generally receive rebuff or rebuke.

However, I am going to break it down. First, has anyone seen what they define as "kicks" on a scope?

The reason I ask, is simple that an oscilloscope does not read amperage..... it reads voltage. Changes in measured voltage over a measured period of time, to be specific.

So, if ANYONE claims to see kicks on a scope, then a change in voltage is involved, pure and simple, or it would not register on the scope to begin with.

Now, the voltage represented on the scope does not have to be the original effect. It can be a side effect of the original effect. I say this as a sudden change in amperage causes a sudden change in voltage as well. So, a high voltage "spike" can well be caused by a sudden change in the applied current.

Now we come back to SM...

Did SM claim to see the kicks? If so on what? If on an oscilloscope, then he was looking for voltage changes.

He stated "current" kicks. This can have TWO CLOSE BUT SEPERATE MEANINGS.

1. It can mean current in the sense of amperage (they are often used synonymously)
2. It can means current in the sense of electron flow (which refers to the entire current of electricity flowing in a wire. Both Voltage and amperage.)

This is just a personal observation, but I infer from his words the second, since I believe he was using an oscilloscope to search for the effect. Being a voltage measuring device, you could never be sure that what you are viewing is a change in amperage.......

Paul Andrulis

unless...  you drop the scope make it work and take a reading and if it peeks more than was applied then i would say you found the kick of current

and the kicks displayed on my scope were of current as well as voltage how do i know my windings or transfromers ...  sing

would they sing with just voltage??  i dont think so unless you some how struck the resonant freq

and also my coil got hot...   fast....

ist
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: giantkiller on July 28, 2008, 09:12:47 PM
My bell envelope was on bifilar 40' copper and 40' steel with resonance. 2 and 4 coils.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 28, 2008, 09:33:18 PM

in your drawing 1, where do you scope it? A-B, A+B, A AND B, A only, B only, which one?

in your drawing 2 you've used the spherics idea and configured it for the Steven Mark version i'm guessing. the kick coils, they are 3 separate coils with their own delay coils. ok, got that. are the 3 kick coils wound as toroidal coils sharing the same toroid form, or are they pointing toward the toroid from outside of it?

it looks to me like you are pointing the 3 control (kick) coils inward toward the toroid.

i'm open to these ideas, but 3 things don't equate to what SM told/showed us:

1. the collector is poloidal, yours/spherics is toroidal
2. the control coils are toroidal around the poloidal collector, your controls are separate solenoid coils pointing inward
3. SM calls for a frequency and 2 of its harmonics. spherics calls for 1 phase-shifted frequency.

appreciate any help on these points/questions.

Hi Poynt99,

Yes, I took three seperate distinct "kick coils and placed them in a "Y" with all of the North pole ends facing towards the middle.  Towards the collector(s).  Once one learns to produce the kick in one "kick coil" then this is reproduced in three or four coils.  These are then "rotated" at high speed.  SM did use harmonics.  But I doubt he did so with his first experiment or first TPU.

Spherics says that the iron coil needs to be at least three feet distance from the bifilar coil.  This is for everyone to test.  SM figured out how to bring the iron coil close in to the toroid, but I do not want to talk about that now.

SM's TPU's had this small bit of iron in them, that is why they heated up...Eddy currents in the iron.  But no one hear will get theirs to work with the iron on the TPU, because they do not know how to bring the iron in close.  So.o.o  ... Keep the iron coil three feet away when doing the experiment.

Goal would be to mfg. the kick, rotate it, and then figure out a way to remove the iron coil and mfg the delay electronically.  But first use the iron!  ;)

I will post a pic tonight of where Spherics said to put the scope, or you can look it up.  I am not at home.  EM Devices drew the circuit with where to put the scope.

Hope that helps,

Bruce   (Will anyone besides Spider, experiment???  with this...)

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 28, 2008, 10:09:26 PM
@innovation

Oscilloscopes just measure voltage.... I don't know what to tell you?!? That is a simple fact of life.

You could look for rapid current fluctuation with a sensitive ammeter I suppose. If you want to see a trace however, I personally do not know of any devices available for amperage. It would be nice though... ;D

Maybe a person could make some form of attachment for a scope, to convert amperage readings to voltage readings. I don't know.

However, what you have seen on your scope is pure voltage.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 28, 2008, 10:13:31 PM
yes i do know this but  when my bulb is lit and my scope is not connected  the supper bright flashes of light are NOT  voltage alone....

ist
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 28, 2008, 11:17:18 PM
@everyone

Electrical power is a function of the ratio of amperage and voltage. A bulb will glow brighter with a variation of POWER, in that after it is glowing (minimum voltage/amperage needs met), then an increase of voltage will cause it to brighten, since the applied POWER increases. The amperage is always going to be lower if the voltage is lower.

P=IV (The power increases no matter which changes, as it is determined by amperage times voltage.)

Let me use three examples based upon 2 premises which is ohms law V=IR, and that a 75w bulb is rated at 75w@120vAC which means a 75w bulb has a very specific resistance.

Let us break the bulbs characteristics down:

Approx. Amperage @ 120V = .625A  (I =P/V or I=75/120)

Approx. Resistance = 120 Ohms (R=I/V  or R=120/.625)

This means it is equivalent to a 120 Ohm resistor. Now, the amount of light is neither measured by the manufacturer in watts, voltage, or amperage. It is measured in lumens, and varies at the same wattage bulb from manufacturer to manufacturer. The wattage rating of the bulb tells you how much energy the bulb "consumes" at the design voltage. The maximum number lumens from this bulb will be the same or lower, since higher power levels will probably blow the bulb. At higher wattages, it becomes a fuse which blows. Below this point  light is indicated by the wattage indirectly, as the lower wattage will not heat up the filament properly as designed.

No matter how you look at it, the amperage at lower voltages will never be as great as the design voltage, as this is directly proportionate to the resistance. Therefore the power available is always going to be lower as well.

Now, say you apply 32v... the MAXIMUM amperage is I = V/R or .27 amps. That means that no matter the available amperage applied, at 32v ONLY .27 A WILL flow through this bulb. You now see that if a lower voltage is applied, a lower amperage flows, no matter what amperage is applied. Amperage in any circuit is dependent upon the applied voltage, and the resistance of the circuit.

This principle applies to any and all circuits, whether we are talking inductive, resonant, etc. etc. etc. (Actually, in these circuits even more things come to bear such as impedance, reactance and reluctance)

NOW WHAT IS THE IMPORTANCE?

The ONLY TWO MEANS of fluctuating the amperage, is with a fluctuation of resistance (which I dont even know if it is possible realistically), or to fluctuate the VOLTAGE. (I=V/R)

With a fluctuation of voltage across a given circuit resistance, comes a fluctuation in amperage.

So, whether we are talking amperage "kicks" (spikes), then we should look specifically for voltage "kicks" or "spikes".....

Amperage by itself cannot "spike" OR "kick" without a corresponding increase of voltage.

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 28, 2008, 11:39:48 PM
Amperage by itself cannot "spike" OR "kick" without a corresponding increase of voltage.

Hence the use of the oscope.  "Current probes" are available to convert current readings to voltage for viewing on the oscope.

Attached is a modified image of the earlier diagram for seeing the effect.

Basically, you pulse the two coils at their resonant freq with square waves (0 to 20v or more) - then adjust the iron length until you see "little green men" on the scope - aka fluttery spiky stuff.

So, wind 'em up and put yer scopes in x-y mode - yee-haw!
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 28, 2008, 11:59:24 PM
Hence the use of the oscope.  "Current probes" are available to convert current readings to voltage for viewing on the oscope.

Attached is a modified image of the earlier diagram for seeing the effect.

Basically, you pulse the two coils at their resonant freq with square waves (0 to 20v or more) - then adjust the iron length until you see "little green men" on the scope - aka fluttery spiky stuff.

So, wind 'em up and put yer scopes in x-y mode - yee-haw!

Hi G,

Thanks for posting that!  I was at work and didn't have access to it!

@Poynt99
Grumpy's posted diagram shows where to put the scope.  And keep the equipment away from both the iron coil and the bifilar coil.

@ All,
What else can be said?  LOL  Yee-haw!  (I like that G, It is the Texas cry!  :)  )

Cheers,

Bruce

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 29, 2008, 12:08:25 AM
what else can be said .... lol

EH G

when you want to talk about "G" ?  and where the pattend for "g" is  ;)

IST

hers a hint read 0-zone pattent ::)  been saying that a while now...

read all associated material ..... study it BLOW UP THE SCHEMS IF YOU HAVE TO!!!!!!!  LOL!!!   400% DID IT 4 ME ;D

EH GK?

then you see the "G"
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 29, 2008, 01:12:44 AM
@grumpy,

thanks

oh, and did you mean A-B mode or XY mode for the scope?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: giantkiller on July 29, 2008, 01:20:00 AM
So I will take 1 of my rat shack bifilars and slap an unwound iron wire bundle in between.
But I cut my last bundle up. Got to go get a new one.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 29, 2008, 01:28:32 AM
@grumpy,

thanks

oh, and did you mean A-B mode or XY mode for the scope?

Posting that would be "proof", but I've been thinking about it.

XY mode to find the resonant freq of the coil and then back to normal when you trim the iron wire.  This was for anyone who is actually going to do this experiment.  I'll probably use a DIP meter.  Anyone who is rusty on finding the resonant frequency or has never done it, instructions should be in your oscope manual.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 29, 2008, 01:33:40 AM
Posting that would be "proof", but I've been thinking about it.

XY mode to find the resonant freq of the coil and then back to normal when you trim the iron wire.  This was for anyone who is actually going to do this experiment.  I'll probably use a DIP meter.  Anyone who is rusty on finding the resonant frequency or has never done it, instructions should be in your oscope manual.

it would probably get a lot more people trying the spherics kick coil if you did post it. is that what you used?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 29, 2008, 01:59:20 AM
it would probably get a lot more people trying the spherics kick coil if you did post it. is that what you used?

This is one way.  Like I said before, there are many way just as there are many ways to create a magnetic field or electrostatic field.  I've talked at great length about the tempic field, shock waves in the dielectric - and no one even tries.

I mentioned the Hubbard way, but no one was interested in that except GK.  I did get my two Hub test coils wound, my Ed Gray rod set up, and a bench cleaned off the other day.

I tell you what, I'll walk through this experiment - fresh wound coil, pics, and such, anyone who has been participating on this thread that does not attempt this experiment - can stay in their damn Matrix - I'm done with them.  Time to squeeze one off or get off the pot.

Oh, and I do not want to hear one single word of "alternative explanations", conventional electrodynamics explanations, and all that crap.  You yank the chain of the tempic field and it barks - that simple.  You pull it's tail and it bites your head off.  Simple enough?

I'm very busy working for the next few days, but I'll inch along each day until the weekend.

I know several others know what this looks like, if they want to share, then by all means do so.

G
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: poynt99 on July 29, 2008, 02:07:53 AM
looking forward to seeing your schematic and scope shots ;)
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: innovation_station on July 29, 2008, 02:08:26 AM
where is that other guy that keeps playing peek a boo?

lol

you know who u r

join in ...   bro ...

you got this licked i know it...    8)

there is so much info on this site bout free engery most have no idea where to look it is everwhere!!

oh welll  so b it

ist
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on July 29, 2008, 03:38:14 AM
I believe the delay coil absorbs the hi freq pulse energy so a voltage gradient is set up between the bifilar elements.  This is all well and good for seeing the kick.  But not so good for concentrating the the kick invested energy.   Series connecting the two bifilar ends will setup a higher turn to turn capacitance for the energy input.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: giantkiller on July 29, 2008, 04:13:51 AM
@sparks,
On my Hubbard the 4 bifilars are terminated that way. I drive them in series and in parallel with the center. My pulses aren't correct tho. gotta fix it next session. Like EMD said 'it could also be the distance'. I can change that too. And also change to air core.

Not mine but the red one is output and two greens are input. They are setup as single channel inputs. Could push towards the center. A similar twist to the ozone NT568177. This pic looks iron/ferrorite core

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Bruce_TPU on July 29, 2008, 04:42:08 AM
I believe the delay coil absorbs the hi freq pulse energy so a voltage gradient is set up between the bifilar elements.  This is all well and good for seeing the kick.  But not so good for concentrating the the kick invested energy.   Series connecting the two bifilar ends will setup a higher turn to turn capacitance for the energy input.

Hi Sparks,

I have already explained in my other post how to "harvest" the kick.  A collector must be used, and the "Kick" is rotated.

@ ALL
I would STRONGLY suggest doing it Spherics way, before changing anything.  After you can produce the kick, change what you want.  I am sure a couple of brilliant folks here, will come up with a much better way of harvesting the kick, then Steven Mark did, but for the rest of us who are not that brilliant, we might just rotate and collect it. ;)

Put away your theories, and ideas, pride, ego and arrogance, and just try the simple experiment.

Or you can continue to play the guessing game with each other, getting nowhere.

"The Kick Comp Poem"
"There once was a group of men,
Who dreamed of a time when,
They would know how to make the kick,
If they only knew the trick.

It turned out not to be tough,
But none would do the stuff,
For them it was too easy,
And so they thought it measly.

But then some did awake,
Realizing what's at stake,
Once they saw the kick,
That was only part of the trick.

But now they must know,
A kick was only part of the show,
For a comp field now was born,
Anguish for those who scorn.

The North always faced middle,
The Comp field then could fiddle,
An anomalous magnetic field,
Radiant Energy could now be reeled.

Three of these did rotate,
At 120 deg phase state,
Around the collector it went,
And to the collector the electrons were sent.

At a great speed they go,
Frequency's dependent on circumference, you know."

Spherics:

It appears I have been too brief in my presentation. I truly believed that there would be a group here who would be able to make the leap between the Steven Mark devices you are familiar with and the design that I showed.

Firstly although this has been mooted I am not Jack. All I will say is the interview says more about the character of Jack than it does Steven Mark. I will also add that the SM device uses rotation. I say this without doubt and Jack is wrong in saying rotation is not necessary.

I will now talk about the Steven Mark designs you have seen in the videos and the like so you will understand why my design at the start of this message works.

The SM designs all work on the same set of principles. A pulse into a coil generates an expanding magnetic field. The magnetic field comes into being by an underlying patterning of the ether. It is a cascade action on the part of the ether that causes the EFFECT of an expanding magnetic field. If you then cause a second magnetic field to expand through the same space as the already expanding magnetic field, a specific cascading action, a pattern is setup in the ether which is the EQUIVALENT of a magnetic field and has many of the characteristics of a magnetic field. By this I mean it will interact with metals, and cause the EFFECT of a current, IF the field is moving across the metal.  I will refer to this field as a COMP field from now on. But please be clear this COMP field is in addition to the expected magnetic field. This COMP field, a patterning in the ether, is dampened and effectively nulled by magnetic metals. This is why if you are using an iron core in the coils named control coils you will never get a working TPU.

No doubt this may be disconcerting to many who have fond references to baling wire, iron wire and the like. I will now digress onto the circumstance surrounding the initial eureka moment as I understand them. Audiophiles who frequent this watering-hole will no doubt have heard of QUAD ESL electrostatic speakers. An essential design element is the incoming signal is sent into, I believe, 7 or 8 progressive delay elements. These elements delay the signal by microseconds each time.

As part of experiments, associated with what would become his 3D spacial control patents, he was using these delay elements with custom made bifilar wound voice coils (i.e. air coils) and unexpectedly detected an anomalous signal on his spectrum analyser.

Steven Mark created his own delay elements using iron wire after several years of intermittent experimentation. The technique was to carefully wrap a bifilar air-coil using copper wire. The longer the length of copper the better but using identical lengths. The two coils were connected to the SAME pulse waveforms in parallel so that the magnetic field is additive NOT canceling. The delay element was added in series to only one of the coils that made up the bifilar coil. The delay coil was made from insulated iron wire wound into an air coil. An oscilloscope was connected to both COPPER coils. The setup would be pulsed with a dc offset square wave (i.e. 0 to 20V not -10 to 10V) at the resonant frequency of the bifilar coils. The tuning consisted of cutting the iron wire down in length until an unexpected pulse/signal appeared. This pulse is the kick. I will refer to these tuned bifilar coils as kick coils.

You are privy to the information that the COMP field is nulled by iron. Those who so wish may like to take some time to fully comprehend the frustrations of closely packing the delay and bifilar coils together only to find the unexpected pulse was no longer appearing!!!  This is what SM had to contend. And Jack says SM was not technical. Bunkum!!

From traditional electrical engineering view point the kick coils for a particular quantity of energy now put out the expected magnetic field but also put out the COMP field which has effects like a magnetic field. In a world that excludes the ether, these coils are overunity. If the world took into account the ether, then the coils would not be thought of as overunity.

The magnetic field is now larger than expected. All that needs to be done is to rotate this field in a circle and intercept the field with an output coil. The captured energy is greater than the input energy because of the energy apparently created by the COMP field. If you arrange all N poles of the kicker coils so that they point towards the center and pulse each coil in turn you will get a rotating magnetic field. There are many ways to create a rotating magnetic field. A secondary effect of a rotating field is the entrainment of the COMP field so that the pattern in the ether is partially additive. A big problem was the iron in the delay coils. It was found that a large solenoid fed with a DC current to produce a static magnetic field around all of the kicker coils allowed the kicker coils to be tuned with the iron delay coils in close proximity.

Intercepting only N poles of the kicker coils means you get a DC output along with a smaller induced ripple from pulsing the kicker coils.

Feedback of the output into the input was achieved using toroidal saturable inductor switches. I've copied the picture from other messages of the inductor switches. Refer to the patent for an example to see how these switches are used. Early designs used a small magnet to bias the saturable inductors.

All SM devices had small batteries to power the LC oscillators. The LC oscillators were used as control pulse currents to the saturable inductors. To start the process high voltage capacitors were step charged, this is why the coils took time to start-up! The first few pulses came from these pre-charged capacitors being switched via saturable inductors. Part of the DC output was feedback to keep the capacitors fully charged.

My design shown at the very start of this message thread eliminated the need for an iron delay coil because the pattern is set up in the ether outside of the influence of copper metal of the control coils. It directly allows the COMP field to be generated IN FREE SPACE. By placing the output toroidal coil within this free space the COMP field is intercepted. The complete lack of any magnetic materials within this design is what allows this to happen.

I do believe there are elements of information here that you will not have been aware of before. I trust this is enough to convince at least some of you to reflect and ponder more seriously on this material.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19820016542_1982016542.pdf

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 29, 2008, 06:48:54 AM
I will be absolutely and utterly shocked if anyone actual winds this coil.   So many like to talk to the talk, but they can't walk the walk - and that is the cold hard truth.  Such a waste, really.

I just peeled off 100 feet twice, 30 awg, and placed each on a small spool.  Will wind it tomorrow.  Got to find my bailing wire - have a spool hanging somewhere.  Winding loose bifilar manually sucks - as we shall see.

See how the "bots" are?  Scope shots.  Endless details.  Then if you show the goods - more BS.

Like I said earlier - I see others winding or I walk.   Stick that in yer pipes and toke on it - and get off yer asses.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Peterae on July 29, 2008, 08:00:00 AM
Grumpy
I think you are underestimating how many people do replicate the stuff on OU, i have been building since i read the SM threads nearly 2 years ago.
I am looking forward to your build of this, it is on my todo list, but working on EM's device at the moment.

I dont post much, thats because i can be a bit blonde sometimes and would really only post when i have found something interesting, which to date has been nought :(

Peter
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: pauldude000 on July 29, 2008, 09:30:01 AM
@Grumpy

If you have problems winding loose bifiliars on pvc, that is because of the slickness of the material. You can coat it with a thin layer of molten beeswax and it makes winding much simpler.

By the way, I prefer cardboard tube because of the texture of the material, and mine is already wound. (2 lengths bifilar approx 60ft each 24ga, with iron "delay" coil.)

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 29, 2008, 02:38:23 PM
@Grumpy

If you have problems winding loose bifiliars on pvc, that is because of the slickness of the material. You can coat it with a thin layer of molten beeswax and it makes winding much simpler.

By the way, I prefer cardboard tube because of the texture of the material, and mine is already wound. (2 lengths bifilar approx 60ft each 24ga, with iron "delay" coil.)

Paul Andrulis
I need the slickness so i can easily push the wires into position.  I'm using 3" poly drain pipe for this one.  This will put the diameter close to the length for max self-induction.  I learned this from Dollard, but have since seen several radio guys use coils with these dimensions (length = diameter).

Did you put the iron coil away from the bifilar?  Got a picture?
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: wattsup on July 29, 2008, 05:27:48 PM
@sparks

I respectfully disagree and here's why.

If we are to presume that @Grumpy's diagram will result in a first pulse and a second pulse that is slightly delayed, then the first pulse being alone will create a field and the second delayed pulse will neutralize it, create a field, neutralize it.

But all this will depend on two major factors and that is pulse frequency and duration. If the first pulse is long enough to overlay over the second delayed side to pulse it will neutralize the field. If the first pulse is faster then the second pulse, both pulses will generate their own fields.

@Grumpy

So regarding your diagram of the bifilar and iron coil, what do you "expect" to be on the scope as A and B? I'm asking this because often we have ideas on what to try and what we expect from the trial, and more often then not, the result is far from expected. I am not asking this not to put you on the spot, because regardless of what you think will be on the scope and what actually will be on the scope, this is all a learning process for all of us.

I myself would obviously expect the elementary scope shot being two square waves A and B just a tad apart. The tad apart would be the effect of the iron coil.

But here is my problem with this. Wire length. Again at the short wire lengths shown in your diagram, one would have to pulse these coils at higher then the 2mhz my present function generator can muster up. I wonder if anyone knows how to do the math on the frequency range required to be able to see the difference (lag) between A and B. My scope goes up to 60mhz. All combined, probably not fast enough to see it cause we're probably talking gigahertz range.

Then the other question is about probe positions. What is the difference between where you show them at the end of the red and blue lines, or if you simply put them together on the actual ground line

Anyways, I just received 10 pounds of AWG 24 magnet wire that I ordered to try more of Ottos shinanigans. I'll try the bifilar also because I have some other ideas for this bifilar that I think is relevant to the TPU but not in the spherics sense.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 29, 2008, 07:12:20 PM
@ wattsup,

Thank for this fine example of how to talk yourself into staying in the Matrix by talking yourself out of performing an experiment, and how to maintian erronious beliefs at the same time.

Wind it yourself or keep hoping someone else will do the work for you.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Spider on July 29, 2008, 07:34:56 PM
@wattsup.

You could try the 3x bifilar right away.

my coil is 31 layers, 106 (2x53) turns per layer. It resonates at about 35 kHz.

I would suggest to connect 2 channels of 2 scopes at either end of the bifilar coil. Maybe that will show even more.

Still working on the power. I am told that I need at least 300V pulses.

More to come.....

@Grumpy

Happy winding! :)

Greetings Spider.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 29, 2008, 07:53:17 PM
@wattsup.

You could try the 3x bifilar right away.

my coil is 31 layers, 106 (2x53) turns per layer. It resonates at about 35 kHz.

I would suggest to connect 2 channels of 2 scopes at either end of the bifilar coil. Maybe that will show even more.

Still working on the power. I am told that I need at least 300V pulses.

More to come.....

@Grumpy

Happy winding! :)

Greetings Spider.

3X bifilar?  the tetrahedral thing is not bifilar - just solenoid coils.

I'll get mine wound tonight.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Spider on July 29, 2008, 07:56:20 PM
@grumpy,

I am refering to the picture from Bruce, with 3 "kickcoils" and a collector. That would almost be the FTPU or the OTPU.

At least now I know where these 4 feet were for.....;)

Greetings Spider.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on July 29, 2008, 07:59:20 PM
I don't think I made myself clear.  My foggy memory reports that the diagram Grumpy posted was advanced on ou to duplicate what SM saw in development of the tpu according to Spherics history report.  Below is what I believe is going on in production of what Spherics referenced as a complimentary magnetic field response.

Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: sparks on July 30, 2008, 02:44:37 PM
@loner

Thanks for the feedback from your work!  The electronics getting hot is a good thing.  They are radiating energy!  I believe the solution to this whole
mysterious device lies in the kinetics of the energy circuit.  SM's tpu gets hot!  I believe a spark gap is a converter of thermal energy into electrical energy.  There is a boatload of heat on planet earth.  Direct conversion of heat to electricity can't be a bad thing.  Ever notice how getting near a tuned circuit alters it's resonance.  To an electrical circuit we are just a scource of infrared wave freqs.
Title: Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
Post by: Grumpy on July 30, 2008, 04:45:48 PM
The big thing seems to be "SM found a way to get the "Iron" coils close to the TPU without it killing
the effect."  If you agree with that statement, I would like to hear that from you.

I assume he did find a way.  Best way would be to get rid of the iron in the first place.

I have an important question (At least to me) that I would like to ask.  This "Signal" delay.  Does it
HAVE to be an Iron delay coil, or can I use (I'm trying it, but no success yet...) components.  In sticking
with older info, and assuming that certain info is correct, I was hoping to introduce the same type of
delay via several germainium (SP) diodes.  (Avoiding silicon, for obvious reasons..)  They seem to be
much less common, but I have a few and have been playing, but crisped enough to re-try without some
mo