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Author Topic: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)  (Read 338529 times)

pauldude000

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Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
« Reply #345 on: May 28, 2008, 06:57:38 PM »
@wattsup

If you still have that alternator stator, and want to experiment, learn from the originator!

http://www.keelynet.com/tesla/00382280.pdf (This is the patent loner and I reference quite frequently.)

What you need is figure 1, concerning how to wind and connect the "primary" coils for rotation of field. Figure 2 shows the lower turn secondary useage, in concert with the primary underneath.

What I find interesting, is this IS a MEG, and a TYPE of TPU (The original TPU that is.).

It is a "virtual" alternator already, so a similar primary should be able to be wound OVER your stator.

I hope this is usefull for you.

@all

As a side note:

For anyone looking for a good Tesla Patents source, this site has all of the US, British, and Canadian patents in .pdf file format (nice.)

http://www.keelynet.com/tesla/

Paul Andrulis

gn0stik

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Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
« Reply #346 on: May 28, 2008, 09:27:03 PM »
Magnetic Induction by definition is an induced EMF (electricity) in a closed circuit due to change of a magnetic flux in the circuit.

Since these units HAVE to be either pulsed with electricity in some manner, or started with a moving magnet, they by definition are run by magnetic induction. To have induction, a magnetic field does not have to "cut" a wire". Skin effect, faraday's disk example, and various other principles show that ANY interaction between a changing or motional magnetic field and a conductor produces EMF.

Faraday's disk example demonstrates that the field is continually "cutting through" an infinitely thick conductor, as far as the stationary magnetic field is concerned.

Now, in a theoretically "perfect" rotating field, you would see a moving "tube" shaped magnetic field, sliding around the circumference of the TPU. Now, we are told that this is impossible, as the field cannot exist without the applied electric field, which is true. They indeed do exist hand in hand.  However, both photons and radio transmissions demonstrate that this Mag field/EMF field CAN separate from the inductor that produced it, and travel away from said conductor seemingly existing by itself.

The question is, will the resistance of such a field to passing through a conductor, allow for a conductor to guide its path of travel? (The principle of the path of least resistance.)

If so, then a self existant rotating field can be made.

Now, consider a virtual rotating field effect. I state virtual, as all that matters is what the collector "Sees". Your "frame by frame" analogy wouldn't matter in this case, as the collector neither "knows about" nor "cares" whether the field is an independent field rotating or three or four fields simulating the same thing. Three or four properly phased coils pulsed in proper sequence do just this.

The first signal fires field No1. Second coil fires just BEFORE field No1 starts starts to collapses, joining the two aligned fields, just like two permanent bar magnets held with N of mag1 facing S of mag2. This prevents or at least minimizes "field orientation flipping" upon collapse of field No1. (it would at worst be a very weak field at the point of field reversal due to the strength of the following field at full power.) Field No2 then is at full peak, as the third coil fires, and so on around the coil.

You then have a perfectly simulated rotational field of the same type, but using stationary fields. The "collectors" would see nothing but a rotating field either way. It does not matter really which is truly happening.

The collectors in a tpu are not much different in consideration as the disk in Faraday's example.

At least, this is the current state of my understanding. It may change as my work progresses.

If you have a theory for your understanding of the operation of the device, I would love to hear it. All input is good stuff to me, and I am proposing but ONE possibly valid explanation of the device.

Paul Andrulis


I understand why you feel that induction is the operating principle behind the tpu. I just don't see how it can be. If overunity could be had by simple induction, I believe it would be widespread by now. Everyone and their brother who has had the idea of hooking a motor up to an alternator to power itself would have figured it out independently. It's just too lossy. Hysteresis, Eddy Currents, resistance losses etc. No load, and loaded losses abound. I think we have to look deeper into the SM's tesla references to find out what's really driving this thing. Mr. Mark spoke about Tesla's experiments with HVDC and spark gaps, and the stinging sensations, and cool breezes, etc. How this is tunable to achieve various results. This, I believe, is the key. If the tpu were just a virtual rotor system, there is no reason it shouldn't work when flipped over. It may be part of the operation of the device, but it cannot be a complete explanation. I believe the TPU is a marriage of tesla technologies.

"The true voyage of discovery consists not of seeking new landscapes, but having new eyes."

  *Proust

Please don't take any of this the wrong way.

Regards, Rich

pauldude000

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Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
« Reply #347 on: May 28, 2008, 10:37:50 PM »
@gn0stik

That's completely alright Rich. I shared, and to some extent still share a little, of your confusion, though day by day, and experiment by experiment clears up the confusion slowly but surely.

When people are being reasonable as you are, I have no problem with negative comments or constructive criticism. It is both healthy and necessary. That is why I explain my understanding in such cases, so that the one performing logic checking has an in depth understanding of my viewpoint, and can possibly point out to me erroneous thinking.

It doesn't guarantee absolute agreement or disagreement, but is a very good means of hammering out ideas. I like to call it logical positive feedback.

I would be happy to converse with you more on my logical reasons for inductance if you wish.

Paul Andrulis

pauldude000

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Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
« Reply #348 on: May 29, 2008, 10:17:09 AM »
@all

Here is a thought for everyone concerning induction.

If a magnetic field has to "cut" through wire, then there is a very real mechanical drag. Skin or surface induction still has drag, but much much less. Now, when a field cuts a wire, an opposing field is created in the wire cut, which adds more drag. (by drag I mean resistance to motion)

This is why using a generator to power a motor which turns a generator does not work. This "drag" or resistance to motion, uses a portion of the applied energy to overcome, therefore effectively preventing O.U. You then consider the amount of energy required to spin the masses of BOTH the generator AND the motor, and it gets worse. All energy in the system has to be accounted for, to check for OverUnity output. Everything from friction to mass to field resistance has to be accounted for.

Gn0stic knows what he is talking about.

However, consider a massless virtual rotor, which does not rely upon a heavy high mass mechanical/electrical hybrid magnet, and there is NO OPPOSING MAGNETIC FIELD SINCE THE COILS ACTED UPON ARE 90 DEGREES OUT OF PHASE MAGNETICALLY!!!! (bet you didnt consider that now did you... :D )

Say the only energy required of the system is some heat losses of various types, minor skin effect field drag, and field energy creation itself?

All of the mechanical energy required of the previously mentioned Motor/generator system is not present here. No physical motor to spin, no physical rotor to spin. No frictional losses either bearing heat or frictional resistance to motion, no mass resistance.... Just a cute virtual magnetic field spinning round and round by its practically frictionless little self.

However, to be fair, the fields I have generated are fairly weak as fields go. Therefore generating little current.

What is truly amazing, is the simple fact that ANY alternator with a steady rotor field strength, produces MORE POWER if it is spun faster. The awesome thing about any virtual magnetic rotational field is the speed at which it can spin................... The faster it spins, the more power from the same applied field.

Consider Faraday's disk. Even with a fairly weak magnet, what is the voltage and current producible if the circumference of the disk is moving at Mach 1 in relation to the center-point of the shaft?  ;D

Haven't you ever wondered why the collector HAS to be inside the CC's to get the best effect, and why coils to the inner side produce more voltage, than coils to the outside of the field? (Faster rotational speed per circumference length is one very possible explanation.)

The TPU isn't a tranformer gentlemen, it is a truly WIERD alternator. Tesla even stated as much, in that he mentioned quite blandly that the pictures demonstrated were not the only manner in which the coil could be wound for similar effect.

I propose that he already HAD this type of TPU in mind, not as a frequency to voltage/amperage convertor as demonstrated by the patent (which it was), but as a portable power producer which he could claim he discovered quite by accident which was already patented for a different purpose so therefore already covered as a natural extension of a previously patented device.

Tesla was a sneaky sucker anyway......

Paul Andrulis

Kls

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Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
« Reply #349 on: May 29, 2008, 10:56:20 AM »
@ Paul

About moving a field or field poles; There is no upper limit to that speed ,not even the speed of light itself and that's so because the field itself is not a particle which have mass, 0 like the photon or greater like any other particles. So in theory one could move a field created by virtual poles (aka a virtual magnet) at a speed much much faster then the speed of light.That would obey all known laws oh physics.

Kls

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Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
« Reply #350 on: May 29, 2008, 11:00:52 AM »
@ Paul

i forgot something,

there is a drawback with that speed.because of the limit of the EM interactions ,and that is the speed of light, all one could achieve would be something like... hmmm. breaking the sound barrier, or creating a shock wave, something like the Cerenkov effect.

tishatang

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Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
« Reply #351 on: May 29, 2008, 01:56:17 PM »
@Paul and All
In the early days of the TPU, I thought  it had to do with heterodyning and mixing of frequencies.
I now believe SM achieved rotation by the Lorentz O forces.  Link here:  (About half way thru the video for the demo):   

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cSEtx5C2pkQ

Torsion field energy comes in from the aether and assumes a vortex shape as in tornadoes.  Turn the TPU over and it will not work because it bucks the natural flow.

I will try to explain proof of principle:  Take your four strand telephone cable and wrap some turns around a 4 or 5 inch form.  Remove and put some tape around to hold shape.   Strip sheath to expose about 6 inches of wire on each end.  Tape one color off as we will only use Three coils.   Take another piece of same cable and strip sheath as Paul described earlier.  Wind your 4 coils around the three strand ring coil at 90 degrees.  Instead of phone cable, This may have to be three stacked individual coils to form the ring?

The middle coil is only an electromagnet to provide the field.  I think SM used a ring of magnets to provide the field like was done in the above demo video.  Energizing the middle coil with a small battery is a quick way to prove the principle.  To use magnets, you would probably need to fashion some circular pieces of thin plastic to hold the magnets in place so you have all N up and S down?

The top and bottom coils have to have self resonance at the same frequency using trimmer capacitors and within the physical size of 4 to 5 inches and within the limits of the AC signal generator.  Make note of this frequency.  The AC goes through  two rectifying diodes, one for the top coil and one for the bottom coil. The other ends are tied together for common ground.

Now for the four  small 90 degree coils.  Two for each remaining ring coil. 

One is the control coil driven slightly off self resonance frequency of the ring coils.  Do not match resonance frequency, but detune to prevent runaway!!!!  Does 5khz sound familiar?  These control coils receive AC from a separate generator, going through two diodes to match phase with the other signal generator.  Their opposite ends tied to common ground.

The other coil is the output coil.   The output coils have one their ends tied to common ground.  The other ends will be the output.  This will give us DC as the field rotates in one direction and a small 5khz ripple on top.  You guys will have to figure the electronic control circuit.  I am just giving what came into my mind's eye last night.

Waving a magnet might get the tuned resonant coils to start ringing a little, the almost in sync control coils will start the field rotating due to the Lorentz O force.  It should start slowly at first because of the weak fields.  But, because we are moving the way the natural torsion fields want to move, it should speed up?   

This looks like the TPU physically and it should put out the same signals?  I think the early small TPU only used half the AC wave as in the above demo video.  The later TPUs used both halves, hence the need for two magnets to start.

Suggestions:
Try placing magnets under your existing coils and setups to see if you get rotation?
Maybe this principal could be used to create the virtual rotating field for the fellow with the alternator stator.

Hope this helps.  Good luck everyone.
Tishatang


kron

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Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
« Reply #352 on: May 29, 2008, 05:25:29 PM »
@ Paul

About moving a field or field poles; There is no upper limit to that speed ,not even the speed of light itself and that's so because the field itself is not a particle which have mass, 0 like the photon or greater like any other particles. So in theory one could move a field created by virtual poles (aka a virtual magnet) at a speed much much faster then the speed of light.That would obey all known laws oh physics.

If so, no speed limit, a setup like Tesla's 382282, seeded with a certain freq. would have the poles moving across the circumference at the speed of light which means the coils on the outside of the setup would not be able to "see" the virtual magnets moving(they are moving at the speed of light right?so there is no time for em interactions) but it becomes even funnier if they can move at a speed higher then c(at even higher seeding freq.).In this case according to the relativity the secondary coils would "see" the virtual magnets actually moving backwards but that would be great ,that's a OU generator that would destroy itself, because bemf would work not against the virtual magnets but actually for them.Wow.That's really weird.
edit to add a nice link
« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 05:50:59 PM by kron »

gn0stik

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Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
« Reply #353 on: May 29, 2008, 06:02:09 PM »
@Paul and All
In the early days of the TPU, I thought  it had to do with heterodyning and mixing of frequencies.
I now believe SM achieved rotation by the Lorentz O forces.  Link here:  (About half way thru the video for the demo):   

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cSEtx5C2pkQ

Torsion field energy comes in from the aether and assumes a vortex shape as in tornadoes.  Turn the TPU over and it will not work because it bucks the natural flow.


ding ding ding ding ding... This was a ringer of a post, in my opinion. However, You might want to start your own thread tish, as it would derail Paul's.

Note Stan said DC Pulses. This is also a very important part of what I was saying in my previous posts. The device Stan was talking about could be engineered to output power, or do other things as well depending on the pulse width, and center frequency. It's also important to note that too strong a magnetic field could kill the effect, we want high potential, low current, and a short current duration. Sharp rise time, sharp trailing time. NO RINGING. We're teasing the ether, to extract and create torsion fields. Ferromagnetic cores are bad to varying degrees, however it can be used to shunt the effect, or make it safer. High permeability, and resistant to saturation is what you would want. You would need a few devices that automatically switched back and forth with this config, to avoid saturation. I find it fascinating that the device Stan was discussing used a mu-metal core, which is used to shield against magnetism. I wonder what the precise engineering decisions behind this were. However, I would guess it's for stability, and safety, while avoiding any kind of saturation issues..
Genius really.

If we discuss this any further it should be in your own thread however. I remember when this video was first posted years ago. By Tao, I believe. Funny how things come back around. When I first watched this, my thinking on the operation of the TPU was too linear, and I missed the significance, save for a few tidbits.

Go read Aspden's work, if you haven't already.

Regards,
Rich.

pauldude000

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Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
« Reply #354 on: May 29, 2008, 09:19:56 PM »
@Gn0stik

I don't mind. If the technique works, I am all for it. If it generates a rotating field, then it is worth trying. There is always more than one technique to skin any deer.

I have also been considering the effects of the rotating field on neighboring magnetic fields, from perm magnets, to the earths field itself. I have also been considering its interaction and effects with prevalent electric fields. If Kls or Tishatang want to post a theory, observations, possibilities, or thoughts, it is good stuff in my book.

In other words, I don't care how we get there, so long as we get there.

Paul Andrulis

buzz-ard

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Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
« Reply #355 on: May 29, 2008, 09:28:08 PM »
@Paul, gn0stik, tish

Check out this link http://lucianarchy.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=futuretalk&action=print&thread=1854. I spent about two hours this morning reviewing some of Stan Deyo's stuff, and all sorts of things clicked for me. It's got me thinking about the TPU in a whole new way.

kron

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Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
« Reply #356 on: May 30, 2008, 12:18:48 AM »
Hello all,
How things can change...I was a lurker on this forum for soo long and now I'm posting for the second time today. lol.Anyway.
I had to reread all the TPU related posts all day long and one min ago I've just finished one pdf titled "Steven_Mark_TPU_compilation.pdf".Some ppl here think that all that could be just BS but please reread that paper and then just think again.He stated that he allready gave Lindsay all clues he needed to replicate the device and know what ?I really think he did.All his clues about how the device work would make sense if and only if we move a virtual magnet(or more) at the speed of light and/or even faster.Don't think right now about the configurations of his tpu's ,I'm certain they were genuine, there are many ways to achieve a result once one understand the principle behind.And that would be simply the relativity.No magic ,no BS, just that.
There is much more to say but my eyes are stinging so i have to take a break.


Kron

replicator

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Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
« Reply #357 on: May 30, 2008, 12:20:48 AM »
Yes!!! I read this forums every day, but I think you are on the right way. I am not a clever guy, but I just feel it. Why? Just here is a yet another working theory...
---
1.) From Floyd Sparky Sweet(VTA), 1988, http://jnaudin.free.fr/vta/index.htm
"... Since any capacitor behaves similarly to a transmission line it is no more necessary to postulate a
displacement current for the capacitor than it is necessary to do so for a transmission line. The
excision of ``displacement current'' from electromagnetic theory has been based on arguments
which are independent of the classic dispute over whether the electric current causes the
electromagnetic field, or vice versa. ..." This statement should be very important. Why? There are capacitors everywhere, like between wingdings of a coil, circuits, TPU wounding, etc... We should start to thinking about capacitors as transmission lines.

2.) Rotating magnetic field maybe not a rotating magnetic field. It would be a electric wave via a transmission line. Just imagine a coaxial cable loop, with an external magnetic inductor which induces a "kick" in one of the part of that loop. The induced signal start to travel near the speed of light to the both of direction in the coaxial cable's internal dielectric. We should solve the problem of direction of trailling "kick" then the result will be a rotating field inside the cable with the speed of light. Standing waves aren't rotating fields, just think what is standing wave, it a reflection from the endpoint of a transmission line.

3.) By today laws we cannot make rotating magnetic field more than a speed of light. Just count and use axioms of aether's two parameters: (http://jnaudin.free.fr/vta/p2.gif). "... The essence of space is time, not distance, and only one propagation  velocity is possible through a segment of space. Thus, time through a segment is  intimately related to the length of the segment..."

I guess that the TPU is an open system, a big, screwed moebius-like loop, no two different plates.
When we start to make 2-3-4 different coils, around it, drive with several amperes, mixture of different frequencies and a lot of wattage we shoot to a rabbit with a large gun. (sorry otto I respect your work but I should say that).
The mixture of frequencies makes a big chaos in the loop. Sometimes these are amplifies each other, sometimes make weaker, and the harmonics of square waves... oh men!
We cannot see the tree by the forest. No outside chaotic, rotating magnetic fields necessary, but a precisely driven, travelling pulse inside the loop.... (I on purpose don't want to know where the energy comes from..)

The question is what is to be hard to control?
Of course, an virtual knife which enables the trailing of the "kick" only one direction in the loop. To make it not so easy. As SM said. The other hard task to put energy into the loop and couple out for your 100W bulb without "killing" the effect, nevertheless keep the balance between each other...
If my theory right, It explain a lot of things like: enough very, very small amount of energy to start the process that will be self-exciting without energy extraction and it is easily runaway, heat, kill, etc...

sorry for that long message.
replicator

tishatang

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Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
« Reply #358 on: May 30, 2008, 10:44:32 AM »
@Paul
I posted here because this thread seemed the closest to my current line of thought.  I am currently in China and have limited internet access.  I don't wish to start another thread.  Thanks for accepting me here.

@buzz-ard
For the reasons stated above, I can't access the link you gave, sorry.

If I were on my home turf, this is what I would do:
Get one of my large ceramic circular magnets, about 3 inch diameter with a hole in the center.  They are called bucking magnets.  Available at some parts houses that sell speakers.  Or, tear apart an old broken large speaker for the magnet.
I would wind a flat coil to fit on top of the magnet.  I would try and get this coil to self resonate at 174.9 Khz. 
This is the supposed natural resonance of  ferro-magnetism.  SM stated that the dimensions of the coil were important.  Is this why?

See here:
http://rexresearch.com/mra/1mra.htm
Partial quote:

"Message 10094 (12/21/94 07:39)
From: Bob Paddock
To: Norman Wootan
Subject: (R) MRA

Another interesting thing that we verified tonight was that the natural ferro-magnetic frequency is approximately 174.9 KHz. This is a shot in the dark from my failing memory: I remember reading in my collection of one device that worked at 14.7 KHz.  I don't remember then name of it for sure, but it was the one made with the large basket weave coils (Hendershot maybe?), you've probably seen the thing it is one of the common lead gen devices in this field.174.9 KHz / 12 = 14.575 KHz. 14575 / 1944 = 7.49 Hz puts it down around the Schuman range. A harmonic interaction with the Earth field? This could account for the time of day effects.  Do you note significant changes at Sun Set and Sun Rise? Maybe this is significant, maybe it is not? "
************
The magnet will reinforce the coil to resonate at 174.9 Khz.  Sort of act like a crystal to give a stable frequency.  Only a small input signal at 174.9Khz can produce very high voltage, be careful! 
Now we can wind a control coil and an output coil at 90 degrees through the center for experimental purposes. 

Note:  We do not have to have a coil at 174.9 Khz to prove rotation.  It is something I think SM did.

Tishatang

 

b0rg13

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Re: The TPU uncovered? (A PROBABLE technique.)
« Reply #359 on: May 30, 2008, 11:36:33 AM »
Hello all,
How things can change...I was a lurker on this forum for soo long and now I'm posting for the second time today. lol.Anyway.
I had to reread all the TPU related posts all day long and one min ago I've just finished one pdf titled "Steven_Mark_TPU_compilation.pdf".Some ppl here think that all that could be just BS but please reread that paper and then just think again.He stated that he allready gave Lindsay all clues he needed to replicate the device and know what ?I really think he did.All his clues about how the device work would make sense if and only if we move a virtual magnet(or more) at the speed of light and/or even faster.Don't think right now about the configurations of his tpu's ,I'm certain they were genuine, there are many ways to achieve a result once one understand the principle behind.And that would be simply the relativity.No magic ,no BS, just that.
There is much more to say but my eyes are stinging so i have to take a break.


Kron

   

hmmm so lets see, in a nutshell we just need to make a rotating magnetic field( whats a good simple easy way to do this part) and simply place some wire/a collector of some kind to get power from it ?..like waving a magnet past a wire to light an LED ....?..

ok now some babbling from me,.....a 3 phase motor has a spining magnetic field that drags the rotor around with it? ( im not sure so im asking ), .. if this is the case cant we remove the rotor and add some kind of wire/collector to replace the rotor and draw some power from that and loop a little of it once its up to speed/power out put so it can be shut off at the wall and self run ?...

... yes befor you ask i have no idea what im talking about, im just guessing. shoot me.