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Author Topic: Test of aluplate<->sand-graphite-tablesalt battery cell  (Read 22730 times)

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Test of aluplate<->sand-graphite-tablesalt battery cell
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2005, 05:06:54 PM »
Well, the paste mix is now prety  scratch proof glued onto the surface
after several wettening/ heating processes.

I will next try with a cloth layer between the aluplate and the paste
mix to see, if the current will rise.

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


gast

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Re: Test of aluplate<->sand-graphite-tablesalt battery cell
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2005, 09:46:43 PM »
Hello Walter,
>> yes I did try prety much al kind of external power AC up to 40Khz and DC also current up to 6 Amp, what is
>> happening is that the cells then work like a capacitor and you can use the amount charged
Intresting. And in such a cell is nothing more than Alu (alloy), sand, graphite and water?
(I don't observed Stefans [and yours] experiment from the very beginning)

What is about the voltage, if you use such a cell as an capacitor? If you charge it for example with 12 Volts, did you get also 12 Volt from the cell after this?
I ask, because if the cell is used in "battery-mode" without charging, then the voltage amounts are very low if I take a look on Stefans results.

>> but no more comes out and the cell does not generate the same amount of power then without the charging.
>> On the contrary if the cells are short circuit at the start up in specific intervalls the cell will perform a much higher
>> and longer lasting output.
Hm, strange behavior.

>> The most importand part is that the alu or alloy is insulated from the graphite in order to
Stefan use an sand/graphite mixture on a sanding alu plate. How can the graphite (in the mix) be insulated from the plate? This is not realy clear to me.

>> to insulate alu you can use a chemical version where on the alu plate is a kind of honey comb oxide created what
>> insulates the plate totally but the graphit will go in to alle the tiny cave's.
I understand correct? The insulation consist of oxidized alu? But how the honey comb structur is build up? Is it a special production process (from the manufacter of the plate) or a self-acting chemical process that causees this structure?


Anyway. I ask myself during reading this topic: Is such a cell a solution for our energy-problems? We talk about 0.4 volts and very low currents. How big must a cell-array be to supply a whole 4 persons household?

Regards, Gast


Offline Walter Hofmann

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Re: Test of aluplate<->sand-graphite-tablesalt battery cell
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2005, 10:53:53 PM »
Hi gast,


Hello Walter,
>> yes I did try prety much al kind of external power AC up to 40Khz and DC also current up to 6 Amp, what is
>> happening is that the cells then work like a capacitor and you can use the amount charged
Intresting. And in such a cell is nothing more than Alu (alloy), sand, graphite and water?
(I don't observed Stefans [and yours] experiment from the very beginning)

Walt: we have to make clear that my AG-cells are different then stefans but I did this tests too yes the material used in my tests with alu was graphite and alu no sand.

What is about the voltage, if you use such a cell as an capacitor? If you charge it for example with 12 Volts, did you get also 12 Volt from the cell after this?

Walter: no you should not charge with a higher voltage then 4 volt and then you only get after settling about 1.5 to 2 volt
I ask, because if the cell is used in "battery-mode" without charging, then the voltage amounts are very low if I take a look on Stefans results.

Walter: yes in stefans case till now it is verry low but this comes after my experience from the direct contact between the aluplate and the graphite and also like mentioned before from the contact tips because the tips only pick up fractions

>> but no more comes out and the cell does not generate the same amount of power then without the charging.
>> On the contrary if the cells are short circuit at the start up in specific intervalls the cell will perform a much higher
>> and longer lasting output.
Hm, strange behavior.

>> The most importand part is that the alu or alloy is insulated from the graphite in order to
Stefan use an sand/graphite mixture on a sanding alu plate. How can the graphite (in the mix) be insulated from the plate? This is not realy clear to me.

Walter: in stefans case with the heating it would mean a seperation sheet what can withstand the temperatur

>> to insulate alu you can use a chemical version where on the alu plate is a kind of honey comb oxide created what
>> insulates the plate totally but the graphit will go in to alle the tiny cave's.
I understand correct? The insulation consist of oxidized alu? But how the honey comb structur is build up? Is it a special production process (from the manufacter of the plate) or a self-acting chemical process that causees this structure?

Walter: No you need to do this chemical reaction before you start with the graphite. you can use a weak sulfuric acid and pass a low voltage current thru it positive to alu negative to a piece of lead for about 1 hour. similar procedure is also used for anodizing alu.


Anyway. I ask myself during reading this topic: Is such a cell a solution for our energy-problems? We talk about 0.4 volts and very low currents. How big must a cell-array be to supply a whole 4 persons household?

Walter: I believe this hole scenario is not intend for solving any kind of energy problems the intend on the whole is to have a solution what gives a longtime power source ( up to 100 times then regulaer batteries) for low current application like emergency lighting, small radios, and the whole array of comercial application like beacon, sensor etc.
Maybe one day when people understand that the enourmus waste of power? what we have now and dont need is the real source of the crisis and then it could be developed together with new circuits as a alternate source.
My AG-cells are providing 1.2V open circuit and upt to 2 A short circuit current and I can power as a sample up to 4 white LED's with four of the AG-cells in series up to 2,200 hours continiously. If you wana read more about my cells you can go to the old group archive and read unter walts waterpowerd cells.

Regards, Gast


greetings
walt
« Last Edit: August 21, 2005, 01:47:50 AM by hartiberlin »

gast

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Re: Test of aluplate<->sand-graphite-tablesalt battery cell
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2005, 12:44:00 AM »
Walter,

thank you very much for your wide answers by return.

Regards Gast


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Test of aluplate<->sand-graphite-tablesalt battery cell
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2005, 01:55:51 AM »
Gast, I am currently trying to see, if I can get some small power out
of these cells without galvanic action, just as the Hutchinson or
Markus Reid cell use no wet electrolyt and can convert heat
directly to electrical energy.

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Test of aluplate<->sand-graphite-tablesalt battery cell
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2005, 01:55:51 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Test of aluplate<->sand-graphite-tablesalt battery cell
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2005, 04:28:13 AM »
I have uploaded 2 new pics over here:

http://phlog.net/user/harti

the first shows the etched surface of the aluplate after
removing the graphite-salt-sand-mix paste
and the second
shows the new test with a sheet of
cleaning paper between paste mix and aluplate
in a heated state.
There you can see, that the milliampsare just only 0.02 mA
which is 20 uA !
This is very low.
It is still on the oven heating plate.
so when it cools down and the paste sucks in again water
from the air, the shortcircuit current will rise again.

But it is much lower all in all in the case with paper towel sheet !

So it is really better to use a galvanix cell without it.
The aluminiumoxid layer is enough to be the shieling layer
for the cell.
In wet state the shortcircuit current without the sheet is still about 5 times
higher.

So it seems this setup can only be used for galvanic
action, but not for the crystal battery effect ala Hutchison/Reid.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline sypherios

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Re: Test of aluplate<->sand-graphite-tablesalt battery cell
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2005, 06:01:10 AM »
Hi, All.
I would like to know the lifespan of the voltage.Does the battery recharge off the water?(in the air or added).

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Test of aluplate<->sand-graphite-tablesalt battery cell
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2005, 06:01:10 AM »
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Offline Walter Hofmann

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Re: Test of aluplate<->sand-graphite-tablesalt battery cell
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2005, 11:41:23 AM »
I have uploaded 2 new pics over here:

http://phlog.net/user/harti

the first shows the etched surface of the aluplate after
removing the graphite-salt-sand-mix paste
and the second
shows the new test with a sheet of
cleaning paper between paste mix and aluplate
in a heated state.
There you can see, that the milliampsare just only 0.02 mA
which is 20 uA !
This is very low.
It is still on the oven heating plate.
so when it cools down and the paste sucks in again water
from the air, the shortcircuit current will rise again.

But it is much lower all in all in the case with paper towel sheet !

So it is really better to use a galvanix cell without it.
The aluminiumoxid layer is enough to be the shieling layer
for the cell.
In wet state the shortcircuit current without the sheet is still about 5 times
higher.

So it seems this setup can only be used for galvanic
action, but not for the crystal battery effect ala Hutchison/Reid.

Regards, Stefan.

Hi stefan,
something must be wrong maybe your meter has bad lead or connection. I did the same setup with 50 % sand and 50% regular graphite powder mixt to a stiff mud with a 1% saltsolution and put on a few different aluplates. The opencircuit Voltage was in every case more then 1V direckt and 0.9V with paper insulation and between 130mA direckt to 225mA with papertowel short circuit. As contact on top of the graphite mix I used one piece of the flexible graphit strips from you. The aluplates was 2.5 X 6 cm.
After heating it for 2 hours at 160 grad C till it was bone dry it did also show only 0.2 to 0.4V and 2 to 4 mA and this did show that with this methode it does not work like hudchinson/marcus reid.Like you sayd.
The same test with my special graphite mix brought even 530 to 720 mA short circuit by 1.25V opencircuit.
I thought it maybe interesst you.
 greetings
walt

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Test of aluplate<->sand-graphite-tablesalt battery cell
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2005, 07:34:46 AM »
Hi Walter,
with the towel paper in between I only get about 0.8 mA maximum
when the pate mix is wet.
Without the towelpaper I got around 10 mA maimum.

When the paste mix is dry, I almost get no current out of it,
less than 20  uA .

Regards, Stefan.

Offline Walter Hofmann

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Re: Test of aluplate<->sand-graphite-tablesalt battery cell
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2005, 11:04:30 AM »
Hi Walter,
with the towel paper in between I only get about 0.8 mA maximum
when the pate mix is wet.
Without the towelpaper I got around 10 mA maimum.

When the paste mix is dry, I almost get no current out of it,
less than 20? uA .

Regards, Stefan.
Hi stefan,
something is generally wrong here, like seyd before I replicated your test and the results are like described before, now the only difference are the aluplate I have used two different kind one is the same material where the streetsigns are made from the other is like a bar. I sanded them clean and then applied like described. the other is the graphite powder i used the drillout powder what is just plain graphit powder and as sand ones i used ordinary construction sand and then I used beachsand. But I used als contact to the graphit sand mix a small graphite plate 20X30mm with a alligator clip. as meter I use my two DVM meter setup one for voltage on 2 V and the other for current set on 20 A with different switchable resistors like 1 , 10, 33, 50, and 100 ohm.
As the papertowel i used the kind what does not ripp so easely and did wet it first in the same saltwater solution where the mix are made from.
The measurements like described are in the wet stage. the sort circuit current is just the amount after about 2 second because with this measurement methode the current runs down verry fast.
if I find the time I will make a few picture and poste them.
After the mix is tryid out is another story there is pretty much nothing and there you are right.
greetings
walter

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Test of aluplate<->sand-graphite-tablesalt battery cell
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2005, 11:04:30 AM »
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Offline colin power

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Re: Test of aluplate<->sand-graphite-tablesalt battery cell
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2005, 06:47:38 PM »
hello all

this is my first post

I'm interestred in the salt water cell.
My idea is to convert the salt to m state matter the formular seems very simple and monatomic elements are knowen to be superconductors.

Hutchinson's vid shows him adding a fine white powder to make an everlasting battery. I was wondering if this was m-state material.
check out

http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/ormus/ormus.htm

for the method

Has anyone done any experiments with this stuff. I would be interested to konw about it

Cheers

Power

Offline Clara Listensprechen

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Re: Test of aluplate<->sand-graphite-tablesalt battery cell
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2006, 04:36:01 AM »
Not even commercially made "dry cells" can operate without some amount of moisture in the electrolyte paste.  Y'all might consider THAT li'l factoid.


Offline Bruce A. Perreault

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Instructions on Making a Chemalloy Battery
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2006, 04:12:27 PM »

 

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