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Author Topic: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg  (Read 196101 times)

Offline LoganBaker

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A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
« on: March 17, 2008, 11:32:56 PM »
Hello all. I was wondering, not too long ago I found this page http://www.inkomp-delta.com/ and on it is a Meg alike system shown.
There is also a YouTube video, it is a bit different then the one on their own page. The device seems to be enclosed in this bigger control box.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npFVaeSbk1Q&feature=related

Now it all look very promising, in the video it seems the thing is past a Cop of 2...,and it indeed is a surprisingly fresh and 'new' way of doing this 'permanent magnet switching'. See the attached photo's (Or the one on their page) they have these 'toroid' (close looped) input core sections which will function as a 'magnetic resistor' once magnetized/saturated. And so the flux form the magnet will have to find another way around. Now we all know that saturating a core section does not take much power. Another 'novel' thing here is, is that the flux from the input coil never interacts with the output coil so there is a separation. That way only the flux from the magnet will do the power 'generation'.

I also found some other info about it on some MegBuilders group, here it is:
Hi all!

I recently discovered one Bulgarian experimenter that built MEG like
device with COP > 1. His Website is here: www.inkomp-delta.com. The
site is in Bulgarian, so I asked him and he uploaded one page in
English (http://www.inkomp-delta.com/page9.html).

Valeri generously agreed to answer my questions and we talked for a
few hours. There are 2 conclusions that I got from this conversation,
and I want to share them with you guys:

1. Valeri claims that magnetic flux from control coil and output coil
should be separated. He claims that the structure presented in TB
patent (with mutual flux for both coils) cannot work. He worked
around this problem by inserting additional toroidal core inside the
main core. The control coil is winded on the additional core but its
flux does not go to the output coil.

2. He also claims that capacitor is absolutely necessary to be
connected to the output coil to obtain resonance. It also makes TB's
patent claims about zero phase difference between output coil voltage
and current somewhat suspicious.

There were also other interesting points like:

3. He said that nanocrystalline material is not absolutely necessary
for the effect to be observed. Such materials can improve efficiency,
but nothing unique happens inside the core. For example, one of his
prototypes with measurements published on the Website
(http://www.inkomp-delta.com/page6.html) works at 50Hz (!!!) with
regular transformer steel core and exhibits COP up to 5.4.

4. He also proposed a few constructions for his ideas in his patent
application (http://inkomp-delta.com/page4.html). It's also in
Bulgarian, but all schematic figures are in couples. The first
presents a state without current in control coil, the second presents
a state with current in control coil. Permanent magnet flux is in
blue. Control coil flux is in red.

I hope the above points will help somebody. At least for me it
changed a lot.

So there you have it. What do you think?
I have not seen this being discussed before on overunity.com
So maybe any of you have some insights in this tech or maybe speak Bulgarian and be able to translate the whole lot?

Thanks!
Regards,
Logan

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline helmut

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Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2008, 12:16:20 AM »
Hi Logan
Thanks for sharing
Very interesting!

helmut


Offline Koen1

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Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2008, 01:30:22 AM »
Yes, very interesting stuff... :)

... a variation on the MEG, and one that does work?
cool

Thanks! ;D

Offline Groundloop

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Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2008, 01:35:35 AM »
@All,

I have tried to replicate the MEG.

I failed!

Information here: http://home.no/ufoufoufoufo/MEG/meg.htm

(It was a huge waste of money and time.)

Regards,
Groundloop.


Offline Nali2001

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Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2008, 01:39:10 AM »
Hmm yes although is might fall in the MEG category this device is much different. Input and output are cleverly separated. It is the magnet that does the 'work' and the input coil that does the gating. But the input coil flux does not seem to interact with the output coil. He also states that this is a main reason why the meg and alike systems will not work, I'm not super sure why that would be 'that' important?
Plus special stuff like metglass is not needed he says.

Steven

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2008, 01:39:10 AM »
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Offline tao

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Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2008, 03:31:07 AM »
I did some FEMM sims for this device to show that the scheme devised in the picture below DOES work out...EXCEPT for one thing, the control coils shouldn't impose a circular(mutual) magnetization in the circular 'element', the sims where MUCH more favorable when the magnetization of each control coil opposed each other and opposed the flux coming from the permanent magnet...

I have appended two sims:
--one where the control coils ARE NOT ENERGIZED
--one where the control coils ARE ENERGIZED via 200turns of 22awg copper wire @ 2 amps for each coil (this can be in a pulse form, doesn't need be continuously applied (for those that don't know) )

I tried sims with the control coil 'element' in a circular format, but that didn't work very well, the flux didn't flow through it well enough so I went with the rectangular 'element'...




(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4300.0;attach=20273;image)


(http://i27.tinypic.com/2pp0gwn.gif)


(http://i26.tinypic.com/29vdsvk.gif)

Offline gyulasun

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Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2008, 11:49:19 AM »
Hmm yes although is might fall in the MEG category this device is much different. Input and output are cleverly separated. It is the magnet that does the 'work' and the input coil that does the gating. But the input coil flux does not seem to interact with the output coil. He also states that this is a main reason why the meg and alike systems will not work, I'm not super sure why that would be 'that' important?
Plus special stuff like metglass is not needed he says.

Steven

Hello Steven,

The MEG and similar setups like Bearden et al in their patent or Naudin showed are normal transformers with primary (input) and secondary (output) windings  on a common ferromagnetic core, except for a permanent magnet in the middle column.  So if you remove the magnet, and start exciting the input coils, their setup readily continue working as a normal transformer because all the coils share a common flux path just like in a normal transformer,  the magnet does nothing else but shift the working area in the B-H curve of the core. And if you study the Megbuilders yahoo group, several members replicated this kind of MEG during the years and NONE of them showed extra output!  Only the Bearden team and Naudin alone claimed overunity.

In this Bulgarian type MEG, if you remove the magnet, the setup cannot readily work as a normal tranformer because the reasons you also wrote above.  So the input coils magnetic flux does not interact with the output coils flux, hence the output load cannot readily reflect in the input coils. 

I understand that a common flux path that is shared by both the input and output coils is NOT neccessarily a drawback in achieving overunity in a so called overunity setup  BUT in the normal MEG setup this seems to be a problem in practice: no overunity comes out in the replicators' MEG devices.  Years ago I also replicated the MEG and got a decent 87% efficiency (COP of 0.87). 
It is possible that Bearden at al have been hiding some important details but if there is any secret, then they have been sitting on it for at least a decade now and one wonders what are they waiting for to mass produce (or at least demonstrate) their claimed kW versions???  My only logical deduction is: their shown setup does not produce extra output and they have no secret....

rgds,  Gyula

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Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2008, 11:49:19 AM »
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Offline Nali2001

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Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2008, 01:10:21 PM »
Hi there Tao:
Thanks for the input.
One ting that must be kept in mind in these type of arrangements is the dimensions of the core sections of the circular core type of gate that they use very much depends on the fact that the total flux from the magnet can at rest only pass trough when it balances equally trough the two arms of the circular section. Plus one must note that this  'gate' will act very much as a resistor when powered. The circular section will have to be driven to saturation. The mean reason why it did not really work for you is because of your air gap size. In my opinion a 0.1 > 0.2mm air gap is all that is needed to create at rest the reluctance imbalance needed. See the attached simulations. And I agree with you, when the coils on the circular section are repelling you indeed end op with a more 'forcing' effect. But I have indeed found (just like the Bulgarian inventor) that this type of approach will not work as you would hope for some reason. Likely because in that situation the input flux will 'interact' with the output coil directly.

Hello Gyula:
Yes there indeed seem to be no real indisputable Bearden Meg replication out there. This is in my opinion mainly because a lot of people do not realize that the Bearden Meg does not quite work as one would think. What most of the time is explained as the workings behind the Meg, is flux density shifting from side to side. But although that 'might' happen Bearden himself does not describe that as the overunity enabling factor. In the video Energy from the vacuum he describes this more fully than I can, but the workings  depend on the Aharonov bohm effect. Now here is what I can remember about it. There is supposed to be this field about magnets that can normally not be reached due to the overpowering magnetic field of the magnet. What the core material of the meg is supposed to do is contain all the magnetism of the magnet itself in the core to a very high degree. Now that the magnetic field is fully contained it is said to possible to tap this 'special' (don't know the name) field. But like he says in the video, doing that is very hard and you need special knowledge and circuitry to sort it all out. He also says that he and his team are still looking for Aharonov bohm effect specialists to help them sort the problem areas out. So form what I get is that the Meg is not at all so simple as directing flux for left to right. That is why this Bulgarian 'Meg' seems so much more doable.
No Metglass not multi kilo hz.

Kind regards,
Steven


Offline exnihiloest

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Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2008, 01:10:56 PM »
...See the attached photo's (Or the one on their page) they have these 'toroid' (close looped) input core sections which will function as a 'magnetic resistor' once magnetized/saturated. And so the flux form the magnet will have to find another way around. ...

Why do you think so? If the current flows the same direction in the two control coils, it provides a circulary flux in the toroidal core as showed on the picture. But the flux from the magnet just adds in one branch of the toroid core and substracts in the other one. If we suppose the core is not saturated, we are in a linear domain so we just get a superposition of the magnetics fields and flux from coils and magnets. This can't change the flux in the output coil.

For changing the flux in the output coil, either the flux from the two control coils have to oppose each other or the toroidal core must be saturated.
In the first case the flux from each control coil will add together through the main circuit and superpose to that of the magnet thus the varying flux in the output coil will be only that of the control coils.
In the second case it is not possible to saturate equally the two branches of the toroid core because the flux is not the same (coil flux + magnet flux in a branch, coil flux - magnet flux in the other). But imagine we could. In order to saturate the core we will have to generate a flux at least superior to that of the magnet thus needing more energy than that being providing by the redirected flux of the magnet through the output coil.

It is a common error to not think about flux and fields as "superposition" although we deal with linear domains.  And to saturate core is wasting energy. No FE this way :-(

Fran?ois



Offline bluedemon

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Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2008, 05:58:24 PM »
Here is an idea using the same concept.  I was thinking at the time that it could be used in a motor or used something like a battery for magnetic circuits.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1504.msg12125.html#msg12125


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Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2008, 05:58:24 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2008, 04:07:30 AM »
Here can a video be seen.

http://inkomp-delta.com/page7.html

So you can see, that they have have about 2:1 overunity output.

Very interesting ou transformer.

On youtube they also have these video.

Please can somebody translate their website into english
and let us know, what the inventor says in the video ?
Many thanks.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2008, 04:17:02 AM »
Here is the youtube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npFVaeSbk1Q

There you can see the COP= 2.1 OU output.

Regards, Stefan.


Offline Feynman

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Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2008, 04:31:36 AM »
This looks fascinating, it's on my todo list for tomorrow as well.

Offline rensseak

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Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2008, 10:12:44 AM »
Hello all,

Would it not also be possible/easyer to use a speaker magnet? In the center the control coil and around the circumference the collector coils and then covering with a steel discs.
Just a thought.

regards
Norbert


Offline satchid

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Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2008, 02:20:54 PM »
Hi all,
I loocked to that hungarian site. Is there someboddy that downloade that site in the begin of this tread? It changed alot in between, some pages are not the same animore. I am particulary looking for any schematic on the electrical side of this OU transformer.
Thank you,
Willy 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2008, 02:20:54 PM »

 

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