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Author Topic: Peter Davey Heater  (Read 261772 times)

Offline storre

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #60 on: May 15, 2008, 09:24:13 PM »
I wonder if it is possible to calculate the exact size of the bell so that it matches the 50Hz?

Yes technically but I think it will be more feasible to just make it a little bigger and then grind it down. Should be easy to grind down a small soft metal bell like he is using. I think the frequency needs to be dead on to be the most efficient. Once you make one and grind it down then each subsequent bell you could make a little closer to the final size so you have less adjustments to make.

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #60 on: May 15, 2008, 09:24:13 PM »

Offline Nali2001

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #61 on: May 15, 2008, 10:08:58 PM »
Hi again,
Well there is one thing that I am not sure about since I did never ask Jan Pajak.
And that is WHICH dome is actually tuned? The inner or outer, and does it matter at all? I think the inner is the tuned one. But since Pajak is a very friendly guy you might as well ask him yourself some questions. Maybe he had some contact with Davey lately. It been like 3 years ago when I had my conversation with Pajak. So maybe he knows some new things.

One other thing, and keep in mind I don't intent in any way to bring Davey?s insight down. But this thing is not rocket science and one should not spend too much time 'analyzing' his pictures and wonder why this and that. He very likely did never made a single dome himself. He just uses dome shapes like the bells from bicycle old bells and clock bells.
http://uk.geocities.com/brettoliver@btinternet.com/images/Masterclock/Chimebell2.jpg
http://libizblog.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/fire-bell-alarm-clock-1.jpg
http://img.alibaba.com/photo/50969516/Bell_Alarm_Clock.jpg

And stuff like that. And it is doubtful that there are any formula's formed by him to predict various behaviors. It is a hands on thing. Get two bells try to tune one to 50 hz harmonics. See it it responds to the sound of a nearby played 50hz source. Or get a frequency generator program and do a frequency sweep while holding the dome near the speaker or something. And to tune just sand the dome shorter and check for freq. again. Keep also in mind that the freq. of the dome is also depending on the structure it is attached to. So tuning the dome free hanging from a cable or something and then bolting it down to a handle is not smart. The thing must be tuned while connected to the structure  it is supposed to be on in the long run.

Regards,
Steven

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Offline devrimogun

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #62 on: May 16, 2008, 12:09:11 AM »
@ devrimogun:

As you said the tuning of the 2 bells should be easy. I know I can do it by ear because I've done a lot of piano tuning but it could be done using a computer or other device. The other parameter is the distance between the 2 bells. My feeling is that it just needs to be at a distance such that the node of the vibrations coming off the bells hit the opposite bell with the node of the wave. I think though it would be much easier to just mount the upper bell on a post that is a screw and fix a nut on the top bell. This way you could wind up and down the outer bell and change the distance in a very controlled way. Just wind up to increase the distance between the bells and wind down to decrease. Finer thread on the screw would make for finder adjustments. The screw would either have to be non metal or if using a metal post/screw then it would have to be hollow so the inner bell could be attached to another post (could be metal) that fits inside the post. Then just insulate the inner pole that secures to the inner bell from the outer bells post/screw. It should be a tight fit. Then just screw up and down and wait for the sweet spot by testing the speed of the water boiling. Once the water boils instantly then that's the spot.

I personally will try to make or find a teflon screw and drill it open to make it a thick tube basically with threads on the outside. Then the inner bell will be attached permanently to a metal rod that fits tightly in the drilled out teflon screw. The outer bell would have a nut welded to it so it can be screwed up and down to find the right distance. I don't see it as a tuning to get this distance. The only things that are tuned as far as frequency is concerned are the 2 bells. The distance between the bells we can start as a guesstimate using the photos. It appears to be about a 1/4" but I would start close and wind out or the opposite. The right spot will cause instant boiling.


@storre I really do not think that you should deal with all those details like teflon etc. Remember that if something works it will work in many different ways. We now know almost everything about this device. Just put together the same stuff that Davey did all simple materials screws and washers. BTW I also think that the tuned one is the inner one from what I read at the mentioned sites above.

I also agree with you to try a larger set of bells for larger amounts of water but hey; do you realize what a successful replication of a basic  setup means already?

Maybe I can find bell company around here ;)

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #63 on: May 16, 2008, 12:24:58 AM »
Yes technically but I think it will be more feasible to just make it a little bigger and then grind it down. Should be easy to grind down a small soft metal bell like he is using. I think the frequency needs to be dead on to be the most efficient. Once you make one and grind it down then each subsequent bell you could make a little closer to the final size so you have less adjustments to make.

Hmm,
I guess it might be easier to buy 2 stainless steel salat bowls and
hook them next to each other maybe a few millimeters away ( the distnace depends on the
wavelength of the resonance frequency in water probably....)
and then pulse this thing with the resonance frequency via a MOSFET circuit...
Then you can also add a big choke as the inductance L component,
so you have a real LC circuit.
Then just tune to the resonance frequency and pulse it at this frequency.
then adjust the distance of the 2 bowls and retune for optimum
resonance frequency and watch the water temperature...

Maybe someone can do this,as I am busy right now
with other things as WM2D simulations..


Offline ramset

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #64 on: May 16, 2008, 12:30:34 AM »
The Amish make bells maybe I could order a set from Mr Thrapp?    if the resonance is trapped between 2 bells there may not be a front or back   just a sender and bouncer     

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #64 on: May 16, 2008, 12:30:34 AM »
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Offline storre

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #65 on: May 16, 2008, 03:46:08 PM »
@storre I really do not think that you should deal with all those details like teflon etc. Remember that if something works it will work in many different ways. We now know almost everything about this device. Just put together the same stuff that Davey did all simple materials screws and washers. BTW I also think that the tuned one is the inner one from what I read at the mentioned sites above.

I also agree with you to try a larger set of bells for larger amounts of water but hey; do you realize what a successful replication of a basic  setup means already?

Maybe I can find bell company around here ;)


The teflon is just a convience to isolate the two bells. It can be done with a drilled out metal bolt from the outer bell with another solid metal bolt going down the middle and connecting to the inner bowl. Of course in this situation an insulator will need to be around the inner bolt so as not to contact the drilled out bolt that is securing the outer bell.

About securing the bell so it doesn't dampen it's ring -- I think it's not that important because at the center of the bell there will be very little or no vibration. Same as with a hanging tube that is ringing. There is at least one point where the wave crosses the zero point and that is where any good wind chime will be secured. I have many wind chimes that I've built and even though you can arrive at this hang point by calculating it. I just ring the chime and slide my finger up and down. It's very obvious the point that has no vibration. It's where the wave is passing the zero energy point. Same holds true for a bell.

@hartiberlin:
I've thought about stainless steel also but they would still have to be sized so they ring at a octave harmonic of the mains and I think they need to be nested inside of each other. Well now that I think about it, they could be facing each other like NS did with his heater connected to the HV secondary on his earth battery. Thrapp talked about how you can feel the spot to know the distance they should be apart from each other. I think it's the same theory as the water heater is using. The waves need to bounce off something at just the right point in the wave crest. Now sure if that is at the zero point or the top of the wave where it would have the highest energy. I think trial and error will be the quickest way and leave it to the math wizards to come up with the wave calculations :)

[edit] I didn't read all of your post so yes if you create your own pulsing instead of using the ac frequency then we could use standard size bowls and ring them to get their frequency and then pulse at exactly that frequency (probably best) or an octave above or below the bowl frequency.


Offline edelind

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #66 on: May 16, 2008, 03:55:17 PM »
I'll just ordered my stainless steel spheres. I hope I'll be able to tune them.

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #66 on: May 16, 2008, 03:55:17 PM »
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Offline storre

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #67 on: May 16, 2008, 03:58:13 PM »
I'll just ordered my stainless steel spheres. I hope I'll be able to tune them.

You are saying you will tune the bowls or tune the pulsing like hartiberlin suggested?

Offline ramset

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #68 on: May 16, 2008, 04:39:11 PM »
TUNE to what you have as  Stephan suggests     Or Thrapps device looked stainless? a dipole inside of 2 parabolas tune as Stephan says no hocus pocus just a heat sensor and play with frequency at close to what ever bowl size you chose if this is what is going on [resonance] Stephans idea can make any harmonic give these[Davies ]results   Chet

Offline devrimogun

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #69 on: May 16, 2008, 05:13:10 PM »
You are saying you will tune the bowls or tune the pulsing like hartiberlin suggested?
-----------------------------------
TUNE to what you have as  Stephan suggests     Or Thrapps device looked stainless? a dipole inside of 2 parabolas tune as Stephan says no hocus pocus just a heat sensor and play with frequency at close to what ever bowl size you chose if this is what is going on [resonance] Stephans idea can make any harmonic give these[Davies ]results   Chet

Friends please! Stefan might be technically right. But our first focus should be to replicate the original for which we have all the knowledge.
(I hope)
Once we have THE device then you could develop the alternative approaches.

Devrim

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #69 on: May 16, 2008, 05:13:10 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #70 on: May 16, 2008, 05:22:55 PM »
DEV well OK maybe a list of what we know about the original then ?  Chet  PS ESA where are you?[he knows a bunch about this]

Offline devrimogun

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #71 on: May 16, 2008, 06:09:44 PM »
DEV well OK maybe a list of what we know about the original then ?  Chet  PS ESA where are you?[he knows a bunch about this]

The Polish prof. describes the construction at http://www.totalizm.nazwa.pl/free_energy.htm
We have deducted the 2 tunings needed to bring it to an efficient COP.

Maybe I am wrong but the rest is upto a good builder.


Offline ramset

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #72 on: May 16, 2008, 06:27:56 PM »
DEV I have seen this guy before seems even creepier now    even if hocus pocus is based in some fact I definitely don't want to go there    Davies built this 60 yrs ago with bike bells wingnuts  and chewing gum   if it needs hocus pocus  i'm, on a different page   its time to resonate @ Stephan could you post a circuit please   Chet  PS and what you feel required equipment should be on hand ?

Offline devrimogun

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #73 on: May 16, 2008, 06:41:44 PM »
DEV I have seen this guy before seems even creepier now    even if hocus pocus is based in some fact I definitely don't want to go there    Davies built this 60 yrs ago with bike bells wingnuts  and chewing gum   if it needs hocus pocus  i'm, on a different page   its time to resonate @ Stephan could you post a circuit please   Chet  PS and what you feel required equipment should be on hand ?

"Davies built this 60 yrs ago with bike bells wingnuts  and chewing gum" thats exactly my point. You would be overkilling this if you attack it with frequency alternators etc. You would be getting on other problems that you can not foresee. Just a thought but remember, the more complex it is the more error prone it will be.

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Offline ramset

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #74 on: May 16, 2008, 07:09:28 PM »
DEV  OK I looked at polish docs page and saw no breakdown of the build no information of any kind besides illustration and 50 htz  did I miss something ?   Chet PS I believe in KISS

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #74 on: May 16, 2008, 07:09:28 PM »

 

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