Cookies-law

Cookies help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
http://www.overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please leave this website now. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

Poplamp

poplamp

CCTool

CCTool

LEDTVforSale

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

OverUnity Book

overunity principles book

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 490823
  • *Total Topics: 14443
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 1
  • *Guests: 213
  • *Total: 214

Facebook

Author Topic: Peter Davey Heater  (Read 276969 times)

Offline FatBird

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1175
Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2008, 11:15:51 PM »
@ NerzhDishua

Hi FatBird, Vaporizer. Interesting.  Could you give us any picture?



Attached is a picture.  In my opinion, the inside of the Vaporizer Heating Chamber is about the same size as Peter Davey's Heating Chamber.  Older Vaporizers had 2 Carbon Rods, but the new ones have 2 small pieces of sheet metal.

A 120 Volt Vaporizer can heat water to boiling in a few seconds, just like Davey's, IMHO.  NO WONDER Davey's can heat water in a few seconds connected to 240 Volts.


Comments welcome.

.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2008, 11:15:51 PM »

Offline devrimogun

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
    • gender selection - gender calendar - chinese calendar
Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2008, 12:24:50 AM »
The answer is seen in any stringed instrument, or tuning fork. For example, take 2 tuning forks of the same LENGTH and hit just one of them. Put that vibrating one near the other and the second one will start to vibrate also. You can also use a tuning fork of double the frequency and get the same effect. Take a guitar and strike the low E string (top string) without touching the others. Now stop the string you just stuck and listen to the high E (thinnest string) and it will be vibrating also even though it is at twice the frequency of the low E that you struck. Octaves (doubling or halving of the frequency demonstrates this the best. Take a wind chime and another wind chime exactly half the length of the first. Strike the bigger one and then put it near the one half it's length and then stop the big one from vibrating. The smaller one will be vibrating also even though it was never physically touched. All the same principle.

In this heater the electricity (mains) are oscillating at 50Hz. These bells Peter uses can't be 50Hz because they are too small. I guess them to be 800Hz or 1600Hz which are just octaves of 50Hz.

Someone here asked how to tune bells. Just like wind chimes, the smaller the bell the higher the frequency so start with something a little lower frequency than 1600Hz and then grind it down until you get to 1600Hz. If using 60Hz mains then the bells would need to be 1920Hz.

Then these bells will be vibrating in octave relation with the mains and you just need to adjust the distance between the two bells to find the sweet spot where the waves coming off each bell strike the other bell so as to not dampen IT'S vibration.

Same theory as to why you suspend a wind chime from a particular distance from the end so you hold it only on the node of the wave so you don't dampen the wave that is traveling up and down the wind chime.

Or think of it like two children swings but slow it down to visualize it. A swing (pendulum) will have a natural frequency determined by it's length. If you want to use the most minimal energy to continue the swing swinging then you need to push at the same frequency as this natural frequency of the swing.

With the 2 bells vibrating both at 1600Hz (in the case of 50Hz mains) and distanced from each other so the node of the waves strikes the opposite bell at exactly the right time and you make the water very hot very fast :-)


You obviously know a lot about this. I will ask some questions maybe you know the answers.
1) According to one of our friends above the small bell is 1 3/8 inch in diameter (3.5cm) and the bigger bell is 1.75inch (4.5cm). If the small bell vibrates at 1600Hz then the bigger one would vibrate at how many Hz.?
2) How the electrical frequency effects them to vibrate is a mystery to me can you explain?
3) If instead of hitting the bells directly with electricity we hit one of them with a stick and repeat this action like in the old door bells
or telephones would the water still heat?

Regards.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline devrimogun

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
    • gender selection - gender calendar - chinese calendar
Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2008, 12:27:27 AM »
@ NerzhDishua

Hi FatBird, Vaporizer. Interesting.  Could you give us any picture?



Attached is a picture.  In my opinion, the inside of the Vaporizer Heating Chamber is about the same size as Peter Davey's Heating Chamber.  Older Vaporizers had 2 Carbon Rods, but the new ones have 2 small pieces of sheet metal.

A 120 Volt Vaporizer can heat water to boiling in a few seconds, just like Davey's, IMHO.  NO WONDER Davey's can heat water in a few seconds connected to 240 Volts.


Comments welcome.

.

This has nothing to do with it. That vaporizer is fast as it is boiling a small amount of water.
If whats said is true this boiler heats any amount of water as fast.


Offline devrimogun

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
    • gender selection - gender calendar - chinese calendar
Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2008, 12:29:29 AM »
The Davey setup is definitely a good design, but we still have no idea of how much energy he is using to create the effect.

We know that Thrapp's setup seems much better, but is a bit more complex in its apparent use of multiple frequencies and a perfect sphere.

Little do many know, but there is another electric setup that I FEEL works better than both of those, and it was made by good old Stan, SM...

If you want me to write up a bit about it, let me know.

Please share anything you know about Meyers system.
I am sure everyone here would be very interested.
Thanks.


Offline NerzhDishual

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 560
    • FreeNRG.info
Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2008, 12:31:37 AM »

@FatBird ,

Thanks for the picture...
I never seen this thing before! :P
Actually, according to Goggle, it also exists in France. :)

According also to few personal experiments -and should I repeat myself -
you can heat water very fast with a 'Davey-like' device but if it is not
well tuned you will also use a lot of amps...

I tried to boil more than 4 liters of water with the 220 Volt alternative grid current
My 16 amps fuses did not appreciate. I could only reach about 76?.
My calculations gave a COP=/= 100%

Anyway - as I told before - a relative of mine, once, stumbled upon a
very strange behavior = the amp consumption was tremendously decreasing after a short while.
But -as far as I am aware of it- he could not manage to reproduce this phenomenon.

BTW: These Davey-like devices are also able to make electrolysis when 'DC fed' and when
the 2 cups are close. (closer than in the picture)

So, IMHO a device worth to be experimented by a good builder/fitter. I'm a poor builder.

(http://freenrg.info/Pic/Davey_Like_Device_1_Small.jpg)


Best







Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2008, 12:31:37 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline storre

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
    • F11 Music
Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2008, 04:34:08 AM »
You obviously know a lot about this. I will ask some questions maybe you know the answers.
1) According to one of our friends above the small bell is 1 3/8 inch in diameter (3.5cm) and the bigger bell is 1.75inch (4.5cm). If the small bell vibrates at 1600Hz then the bigger one would vibrate at how many Hz.?
2) How the electrical frequency effects them to vibrate is a mystery to me can you explain?
3) If instead of hitting the bells directly with electricity we hit one of them with a stick and repeat this action like in the old door bells
or telephones would the water still heat?

Regards.

I think they are overall the same size. For example a 1" diameter tube 12" long will vibrate the same frequency as a  3/4" tube of 14" length. Understand I'm just estimating here but it's the overall size that matters. From the bells I saw in the pictures, one was smaller in diameter but slightly longer in length so if they are equal in the overall size then the frequency will be the same. If the smaller bell is really smaller then it's possible he is using the next strongest overtone which would be the 5th interval or dominate of the bigger bell. If the smaller bell is really smaller overall then the frequency would be the ratio of 4:3 or about 2133Hz but I really think they are both 1600Hz

The frequency of 50Hz (in the case of New Zealand mains) is audible but a very low frequency. Humans can here to about 30-40Hz. We don't hear the 50Hz because it would have to be connected to something large that would reverberate that frequency to change it from an electric oscillation to an audible oscillation. Similar to how a speaker works. All we need to know is that 50Hz will create a 100Hz, 200Hz, 400Hz, 800Hz, 1600Hz and also at a lower amplitude other harmonics such as 150Hz etc. If we make a bell that naturally vibrates at one of those frequencies then I believe it will vibrate at it's natural frequency. Imagine a pendulum swinging at a rate of 100 swings per minute. If we push it at 50 times a minute we will use very little energy to keep it going. If we try to push at at 51, 60 or any other non resonant interval then there will be a lot of wasted pushing :)

I don't believe vibrating the bells physically at 1600Hz would create the same effect. He calls them sonic heaters so I could be wrong but I think the action of the ac voltage at the correct frequency is what causes the heating.

I must say that this is all speculation but it makes sense to me and what I understand about frequency. I'm a sax player like Peter so at least am coming from the same direction ;-)

I'm getting ready to make one of these and am thinking to use cone shapes instead of bells so as to keep the distance between the 2 bells (cones in my case) more consistent. I'm not sure if a bell rings more easily than a cone so that might make a difference. A cone though would be easier to make and could be made longer and just ground down to the right frequency. Also both cones would be exactly the same size but the inner one would stick out.

Offline NewAge

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2008, 08:30:31 AM »
OK, how about his new sphere design?

(http://technience.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/boilingwaterwithsound.thumbnail.jpg) (http://www.scene.org/~esa/merlib/sax/02.png)

Did he change to spheric design because it is easier to tune a sphere into resonance?
The article says "So he made his first heater patent based on this observation. This patent was already registered in 1944." Can we find the patent? It would answer many questions.

Read the whole article http://merlib.org/node/5504
Here you can watch a video of his heater in action.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 08:51:44 AM by NewAge »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2008, 08:30:31 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline devrimogun

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
    • gender selection - gender calendar - chinese calendar
Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2008, 12:11:50 PM »
I think they are overall the same size. For example a 1" diameter tube 12" long will vibrate the same frequency as a  3/4" tube of 14" length. Understand I'm just estimating here but it's the overall size that matters. From the bells I saw in the pictures, one was smaller in diameter but slightly longer in length so if they are equal in the overall size then the frequency will be the same. If the smaller bell is really smaller then it's possible he is using the next strongest overtone which would be the 5th interval or dominate of the bigger bell. If the smaller bell is really smaller overall then the frequency would be the ratio of 4:3 or about 2133Hz but I really think they are both 1600Hz

The frequency of 50Hz (in the case of New Zealand mains) is audible but a very low frequency. Humans can here to about 30-40Hz. We don't hear the 50Hz because it would have to be connected to something large that would reverberate that frequency to change it from an electric oscillation to an audible oscillation. Similar to how a speaker works. All we need to know is that 50Hz will create a 100Hz, 200Hz, 400Hz, 800Hz, 1600Hz and also at a lower amplitude other harmonics such as 150Hz etc. If we make a bell that naturally vibrates at one of those frequencies then I believe it will vibrate at it's natural frequency. Imagine a pendulum swinging at a rate of 100 swings per minute. If we push it at 50 times a minute we will use very little energy to keep it going. If we try to push at at 51, 60 or any other non resonant interval then there will be a lot of wasted pushing :)

I don't believe vibrating the bells physically at 1600Hz would create the same effect. He calls them sonic heaters so I could be wrong but I think the action of the ac voltage at the correct frequency is what causes the heating.

I must say that this is all speculation but it makes sense to me and what I understand about frequency. I'm a sax player like Peter so at least am coming from the same direction ;-)

I'm getting ready to make one of these and am thinking to use cone shapes instead of bells so as to keep the distance between the 2 bells (cones in my case) more consistent. I'm not sure if a bell rings more easily than a cone so that might make a difference. A cone though would be easier to make and could be made longer and just ground down to the right frequency. Also both cones would be exactly the same size but the inner one would stick out.

@storre thanks for sharing.
Before starting to build a replica make sure that your assumption that both are overall the same size is correct.
There are some photos that can be of use. There is also a drawing which I am sure you know about but I do not
know if it is exact.

Someone proposed to look for the patent and he is right.

Also, I am sure you know better then I do as a musician but I still would like to remind you that cone bells are not as good as
spheric bells. This I tell you from experience. Whenever I rang a bell that is cone shaped it did not sound as good or as long as
its spheric counterpart. Maybe I came across bad conic bells :)) Also remember that the holes of the cavity heater (the one with the motor) are not conic. These are just to make you think further.

Speaking of long sounding bells would a Tibetan singing bowl more efficient?

Offline devrimogun

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
    • gender selection - gender calendar - chinese calendar
Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2008, 12:26:16 PM »
@FatBird ,

Thanks for the picture...
I never seen this thing before! :P
Actually, according to Goggle, it also exists in France. :)

According also to few personal experiments -and should I repeat myself -
you can heat water very fast with a 'Davey-like' device but if it is not
well tuned you will also use a lot of amps...

I tried to boil more than 4 liters of water with the 220 Volt alternative grid current
My 16 amps fuses did not appreciate. I could only reach about 76?.
My calculations gave a COP=/= 100%

Anyway - as I told before - a relative of mine, once, stumbled upon a
very strange behavior = the amp consumption was tremendously decreasing after a short while.
But -as far as I am aware of it- he could not manage to reproduce this phenomenon.

BTW: These Davey-like devices are also able to make electrolysis when 'DC fed' and when
the 2 cups are close. (closer than in the picture)

So, IMHO a device worth to be experimented by a good builder/fitter. I'm a poor builder.

(http://freenrg.info/Pic/Davey_Like_Device_1_Small.jpg)


Best


@NerzhDishual I also speak French and visited your blog about your replica. I do not think that you are a poor builder
and your experiment setup looks fine. Thanks for your efforts. But I believe that you missed THE important points which
are the 2 tunings (freq. of the smaller bell and the distance between the two bells) as you were missing some knowledge.

That must be the reason for high amperage that got drawn and still you calculated an almost 100%COP. In my opinion
this result of 100% still means a lot as you were converting AC into sound and heating water in the end!
So how can  it be 100% if this gizmo did not have that something extra we are all looking for? It could have easily been
110% for example or more, 100% is just a coincidence!

@Storre knows about frequencies so I hope he will be more successful with his replication. In my opinion
a replication should be started with good quality bells and when the frequency and distance tuning is right we will get somewhere.

Regards,


Offline devrimogun

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
    • gender selection - gender calendar - chinese calendar
Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2008, 12:31:25 PM »
OK, how about his new sphere design?

Did he change to spheric design because it is easier to tune a sphere into resonance?
The article says "So he made his first heater patent based on this observation. This patent was already registered in 1944." Can we find the patent? It would answer many questions.

Read the whole article http://merlib.org/node/5504
Here you can watch a video of his heater in action.


@newage we know very little about this later model so lets concentrate on the earlier one.
According to hearsay, that one is already extraordinary!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2008, 12:31:25 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline NewAge

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2008, 02:45:11 PM »
@newage we know very little about this later model so lets concentrate on the earlier one.
According to hearsay, that one is already extraordinary!
Maybe we try to look for the patent? The first time he patented this heater in 1944 - see the New Zealand patent number 92.428 dated on 12 December 1944.

Offline storre

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
    • F11 Music
Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2008, 03:08:06 PM »
@storre thanks for sharing.
Before starting to build a replica make sure that your assumption that both are overall the same size is correct.
There are some photos that can be of use. There is also a drawing which I am sure you know about but I do not  know if it is exact.

Someone proposed to look for the patent and he is right.

Also, I am sure you know better then I do as a musician but I still would like to remind you that cone bells are not as good as
spheric bells. This I tell you from experience. Whenever I rang a bell that is cone shaped it did not sound as good or as long as
its spheric counterpart. Maybe I came across bad conic bells :)) Also remember that the holes of the cavity heater (the one with the motor) are not conic. These are just to make you think further.

Speaking of long sounding bells would a Tibetan singing bowl more efficient?


The pictures i've seen of Davey's 2 bell heaters has looked like the inner bell is smaller in diameter but sticks out further than the out bell so seems like they would be the same over all mass and the same frequency. The one that is a sphere may be more like Thrapps model with a probe going down the center to set up the primary vibration. The length of the probe (if that is indeed what he is doing in the sphere) might be a certain length also since it follows the same rule as a pendulum, length and period are exactly related and in resonance with the natural frequency of the sphere.

I've thought also that cones would not ring as good and probably why we haven't seen any made out of cones by Peter. I like the more natural shape of a sphere or half sphere so will probably pass on the cone idea.

What cavity heater with motor are you referring to?

The tibetan singing bowls might work but might be to heavy to ring easily. Can they be found in small sizes like peter uses? We could go with the next lower octave so use a bigger bowl and heat the water faster :) Could be at 800Hz but I'm just guessing.


Offline NewAge

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
A good finding
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2008, 03:55:55 PM »
I found this page http://www.totalizm.nazwa.pl/boiler.htm written by a guy who lived in NZ and visited Peter Davey numerous times and took pictures of the heater. Described are details of the device as well as many photos.
You might want to see this one -- instant boiling @ 2.5A -- no conventional heater on Earth can do it!
Also, the sphere, according to him has just protective function, nothing more. Inside is the same semi-spheric design.

Offline devrimogun

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
    • gender selection - gender calendar - chinese calendar
Re: A good finding
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2008, 04:10:11 PM »
I found this page http://www.totalizm.nazwa.pl/boiler.htm written by a guy who lived in NZ and visited Peter Davey numerous times and took pictures of the heater. Described are details of the device as well as many photos.
You might want to see this one -- instant boiling @ 2.5A -- no conventional heater on Earth can do it!
Also, the sphere, according to him has just protective function, nothing more. Inside is the same semi-spheric design.

Yes he is the reason I believe that this may work. He also has a lot of other interesting things that he explains in this WEB site.
I wrote before that he also mentions that the amount of water does not matter.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline devrimogun

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
    • gender selection - gender calendar - chinese calendar
Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2008, 04:19:20 PM »
The pictures i've seen of Davey's 2 bell heaters has looked like the inner bell is smaller in diameter but sticks out further than the out bell so seems like they would be the same over all mass and the same frequency. The one that is a sphere may be more like Thrapps model with a probe going down the center to set up the primary vibration. The length of the probe (if that is indeed what he is doing in the sphere) might be a certain length also since it follows the same rule as a pendulum, length and period are exactly related and in resonance with the natural frequency of the sphere.

I've thought also that cones would not ring as good and probably why we haven't seen any made out of cones by Peter. I like the more natural shape of a sphere or half sphere so will probably pass on the cone idea.

What cavity heater with motor are you referring to?

The tibetan singing bowls might work but might be to heavy to ring easily. Can they be found in small sizes like peter uses? We could go with the next lower octave so use a bigger bowl and heat the water faster :) Could be at 800Hz but I'm just guessing.


From the drawings and photos what I can see is that the smaller half sphere sticks further out but it is because it is mounted inside the bigger one 4-5mm outwards. So I believe that the lengths are almost the same. Make further investigations.

I could not find the link for the cavity heater with motor sorry. Just forget about it for the moment.

I think that your guesses on the frequencies could be correct. For the moment the best thing to do is to use about the same sizes and same shapes as the old man it seems like you got the way to adjust the inner one to a certain multiple of 50 (by grinding) but the other adjustment is a bit more tricky as what exactly is the tuning going to be made for?

Do you have an idea on that?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2008, 04:19:20 PM »

 

Share this topic to your favourite Social and Bookmark site

Please SHARE this topic at: