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Author Topic: Peter Davey Heater  (Read 251931 times)

Offline storre

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Peter Davey Heater
« on: February 09, 2008, 05:00:32 PM »
I suppose this is somewhat related to electrolysis though not exactly. On page 20 of this pdf (or search the pdf for "The Peter Davey Heater") they show a very fast liquid heater that uses the frequency of the mains (in this case 50Hz in NZ) to vibrate 2 bells (that naturally resonate at 50Hz due to their size). The distance between the bells is important also and the doc only describes it as a trial and error process by using the time it takes to heat water and gradually adjusting the distance between the bells. Says it uses cavitation and is said to have a COP of 20!

Using 2 bells tuned to the same frequency seems an effective way to adjust the distance between the bells to find the sweet spot. Especially if the bells are more of a flat sphere.

Haven't been able to find any more specific plans but with some trial and error it doesn't seem to difficult to reproduce. I've seen video of it working and it boils the water in seconds using very little energy since there is not a direct connection between the neutral and main.

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Peter Davey Heater
« on: February 09, 2008, 05:00:32 PM »

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2008, 06:21:02 PM »
The direct connection is made by the water itself and only a correct current meter can tell you how much input power is actually used from the mains!  Tap water usually conducts electric current quite well (think of hair drier accidents in bathrooms!)

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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2008, 06:21:12 PM »
doubled, sorry

Offline storre

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2008, 07:01:21 PM »
Shouldn't you be able to read the resistance across the bells once they are in water or whatever liquid? Since this works with any liquid and different liquids conduct more or less then the energy consumed would coincide with the conductivity of the liquid. It might not even work on something like salt water. Especially with 220v. It seems the key to how this functions is matching the oscillation of the bells with the frequency of the mains or some octave of it and also control the space between the vibrating bells to create a type of cavitation effect. Maybe similar to how a water hammer works? I think a better shape than a bell would be a cone shape since you could vary the distance between the bells uniformly with 2 of the same exact size and frequency.


Offline gyulasun

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2008, 11:38:31 PM »
Shouldn't you be able to read the resistance across the bells once they are in water or whatever liquid? Since this works with any liquid and different liquids conduct more or less then the energy consumed would coincide with the conductivity of the liquid. It might not even work on something like salt water. Especially with 220v. It seems the key to how this functions is matching the oscillation of the bells with the frequency of the mains or some octave of it and also control the space between the vibrating bells to create a type of cavitation effect. Maybe similar to how a water hammer works? I think a better shape than a bell would be a cone shape since you could vary the distance between the bells uniformly with 2 of the same exact size and frequency.

Hi,

Yes I measured with a multimeter the electric resistance of a glass of normal tap water just out of curiosity and found values from 4-5kOhms to 20-30kOhms depending on how deeply I merged the measuring tips.   Obviously the surface area of the possible bells are bigger than the tips so the conductance improves and also the distance between them counts. And surely the conductance of the hot water also better than the cold one.  I agree on your cone shape (or the like) variants could be better.
I found a link with ongoing replication attempts:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1414-daveys-water-heater.html

and here is another link in French with some efficiency calculations, though no exact resonance tuning was done:
http://freenrg.info/Sonettes_Davey/calcul_sonette.html   (and see the html pages here http://freenrg.info/Sonettes_Davey/ )

rgds,  Gyula

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2008, 11:38:31 PM »
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Offline NerzhDishual

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2008, 12:46:58 AM »

Hi Over_Unity dot com blokes,

I made some experiments with some Davey's like devices few months ago (and, BTW, had my grid meter negatively 'reacting'  :-\)...

I could not produce any 'overunity'.
I just can say that one of my device seemed to be more efficient than a kettle. (100% versus 94%).
BTW : this device heats water faster than a kettle (while drawing a lot of amps!)  and seems also to do some electrolysis at the same time.

*But*
An acquaintance of mine who is a retired metal fitter and who built a more 'professional' device told me that he once stumbled upon a very strange behavior with obvious 'overunity' (the amps consumption was tumbling down and the water boiled very very fast). He could not believe his eyes. As far as I'm aware of it, he was not able to reproduce this phenomenon. (BTW: I will ask him again about that ASAP).

So, IMHO, this device is promissing but reserved for the skifull, well equipped, very patient, lucky and fortunate builders!  For my part I'm not very equipped nor patient! So, I gave up (for the moment).

Best

PS : as Gyula pointed it out, some of my stuff (in French) at : http://freenrg.info/Sonettes_Davey/   ;D

Offline esaruoho

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2008, 01:09:57 AM »
Peter Davey is a saxophone player. if he can figure it out, and make it work, so can any old other musician dealing with frequencies. note the resemblance  to John Keely's stuff.
and then of course:
(http://www.scene.org/~esa/merlib/sax/09.png)
(http://keelynet.com/sonicboiler2.jpg)
" 02/05/08 - More on the Sonic Boiler
KeelyNet The photos shown to date reminded me of a website I found a couple of years ago describing a similar thing. Here are my notes from that find; "As a sensitive musician Mr Davey noticed, that there was such a frequency of the motor and propeller buzzing, when the aeroplane cabin and his body were getting into a resonance. At this unique resonance frequency he always was experiencing an influx of heat in his aeroplane cabin. He did not know yet, that in future this phenomenon will be utilised in ultrasonic weapon systems for effective and undetected killing of people. But he decided to test whether the same phenomenon is to appear, if a metal hemisphere which simulates his pilot cabin is submerged in water and is excited into a resonance frequency. So he found two tops from old bicycle bells, joined them together, tuned one of them to 50 Hz frequency, attached electricity wire to each one of them, and thrown them into water. Surprisingly, water started to boil extremely fast. So he made his first heater patent based on this observation. This patent was already registered in 1944. After a hero return from the war, he had a device, which repetitively proved to everyone who measured it, that it has the efficiency decisively exceeding 100%. Realising this, he believed that the world is going to pounce on the opportunity of production and use of this technical miracle. After all, people are full of declarations about apparent saving on energy, resources, about protection of our natural environment, etc. However, the reality turned out to be completely opposite. Immediately after it was experimentally confirmed that the device has unexplainably high efficiency, the heater and the inventor fell into disfavour of various institutions that are interested in selling electricity and that protect the monopoly on electrical power. In the result, this extraordinary invention received an extraordinary treatment! Namely authorities were doing everything in their powers to disallow the production and sale of this heater in New Zealand. One of legal tricks that were used against this heater, was that it was declared officially to be "unsafe to health and life of users". (Please notice that practically every electrical device working on 220 Volts can be declared unsafe, if someone in the position of authority wishes to put it down.) In turn in New Zealand it is impossible to undertake the production and sale of anything, that is not officially approved by the government. In the result, Mr Davey was fighting for almost 50 years to receive a permit for the industrial production of this heater. And during these almost 50 years, the permission was continually refused to him, no matter what research outcomes he submitted to please authorities, and no matter how hard he tried. But it is interesting, that in Australia an electric jug with a heating element of the design very similar to the Davey?s heater was put in mass production (this Australian jug most probably is produced in there still even today). This Australian jug is working on the principle of electrical resistance of water (i.e. not telekinesis as the heater of Mr Davey does). Water that it heats is a resistor, in which heat is generated because of the electric current flows through this water. This Australian jug is exactly the same "dangerous to the health and lives", like the telekinetic heater of Mr Davey. Only that it did not encountered in Australia similar bureaucratic resistance because the energy efficiency of it is "normal". When I met Mr Davey for the first time in 1990, he still was appealing to authorities, and still had a hope to receive a permit for the production of his heater - in spite of these almost 50 years of lost battles with bureaucrats. He was even showing to me a large stock of components he gathered to start a production immediately after the permit is granted to him. However, he gave up the experimental production of research copies of his heater. The design of the Davey's sonic heater is extremely simple. It actually is composed of two major parts only - see Figure K8 (3) from monograph [1/4]. The most important out of these two parts is a resonating hemispherical bowl (1) made of a sound inducing metal plate. The second part is a buffering hemispherical bowl (2) almost identical in shape to the bowl (1). This second bowl has the radius around 4 mm larger than the resonating hemispherical bowl (1). Both bowls are assembled symmetrically one around the other, means the hemispherical bowl (1) is placed inside of the hemispherical bowl (2). Coin is 32 mm wide = 1.25984 inches / Big bowl approximately 1.75 inches wide and .75 inches thick / Small bowl approximately 1 3/8 inches wide. Of course, apart from these two bowls, the heater also includes a long rod, nuts, washers, and electrical wires. These are to hold it together, to supply electricity to both bowls, and to allow the heater to be submerged into water that it heats. But these other parts are marginal additions only. The major parts are the bowls. During experimental production of this heater, the resonating hemispherical bowl (1) usually is made from an old cover for a bicycle bell. The dimensions of this hemispherical bowl are not important. It is only vital that it falls into a sonic resonance at the frequency of 50 Hertz, and that it has the outer surface which is parallel and equidistant from the external buffering hemispherical bowl (2). To each of these two bowls a different wire of the household electricity supply (i.e. 220 V, 50 Hz) is connected. The heater must be submerged in water that it heat. It brings water to the boiling point extremely fast. More details about the design and operation of this sonic heater is provided in subsection K3.3 from volume 10 of monograph [1/4]. After being constructed, the Davey's telekinetic heater must be "tuned" in two different manners. The first tuning depends on providing the hemispherical bowl (1) with such frequency of the own oscillations, that makes this bowl to resonate acoustically when a sound of the frequency 50 Hertz is emitted nearby. The second tuning of the heater depends on appropriate selecting the distance "L" between both bowls (1) and (2). On this distance depends the formation of the standing wave between both bowls. Thus it decides about the energy efficiency of the entire heater. From the information that the inventor repeated to me, I gather that the measurements carried out by New Zealand scientists suggested that this heater may consume even less than the equivalent for around 5% of the energy that it generates in form of heat. This would indicate, that the electrical efficiency of this heater is around 2000%. (Means, that the heater produces over 20 times more heat than it consumes electrical energy.)" - from Private Files "
said keelynet.
(http://www.scene.org/~esa/merlib/sax/12.png)

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2008, 01:09:57 AM »
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Offline esaruoho

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2008, 01:21:17 AM »
(http://www.scene.org/~esa/merlib/sax/12.png)

went on a chatroom and asked a few mates, and they said:
"esa if that's the G he's going for it's 49hz"
"heres a good reference for you
(http://www.dolmetsch.com/midinotes.gif)"

yay!

that bell/bowl in his hand is designed to resonate at 50Hz. he can adjust the other bowl inside the bowl  to be closer or further away,  but i dont understand what the electricity does and how that alters things.
does New Zealand / Christchurch area  feature 50Hz electricity? if yes, then maybe thats the whole point!

New Zealand - http://www.kropla.com/electric2.htm - 230V 50Hz.

so here we go. Davey has a bowl that resonates at 50Hz - he is shown pressing the G-note which is 49Hz (or depending on tuning, closer to 50hz?), his device wires  50Hz 230V electricity into the bowl system.. and what happens then between the two bowls resonating at the same frequency?

where's that hans vlieven dude when we need him? this shouldnt be that hard.

Offline Turtlefuel

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2008, 10:21:53 PM »
I am glad to see some interest in this device. I made a very very amateurish device a year ago with bicycle ring clocks and got really interesting results. First of all is was able to boil water much faster than a kettle and my measurement showed a slight overunity (which can be the result of my measurement equipment not being good enough...).

There is something in this.. but the clocks need to be tuned to the AC frequencies,not an easy thing to do at home.

Offline Nali2001

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2008, 03:12:26 PM »

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2008, 03:12:26 PM »
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Offline esaruoho

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2008, 06:47:25 PM »
theres bits also on http://merlib.org/node/5504

Offline FatBird

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2008, 04:50:16 PM »
I wonder if stainless steel bowls bought at a grocery store, & properly spaced, would work?


Offline pese

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2008, 09:22:53 PM »
I wonder if stainless steel bowls bought at a grocery store, & properly spaced, would work?
to rasoirs blades (is stainless steel) (shaver) connected to 220volt , with 1 cm space , will cook the water also. This is know  since WW2  to soldiers that boils his rasoir water this way.

.

Offline NerzhDishual

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2008, 10:09:29 PM »

Hi Pese,

Thanks a lot for your informations. I will test this device ASAP.
You mean this king of razor blades, I guess:

(http://freenrg.info/Pic/razor_blade.jpg)


You may also know that, during WW1, these blades were also used as detectors
(diodes) to build radio receivers:

(http://freenrg.info/Pic/razor_blade1.jpg)


(http://freenrg.info/Pic/DetectRasoir.gif)

See:
http://dspt.club.fr/detecteurs.htm
http://www.carnets-tsf.fr/galene
In French, sorry.

Best

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Offline NerzhDishual

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2008, 10:27:25 PM »
I wonder if stainless steel bowls bought at a grocery store, & properly spaced, would work?

Yes, I think so.

Best

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2008, 10:27:25 PM »

 

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