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Author Topic: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?  (Read 143024 times)

Offline Groundloop

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #180 on: February 21, 2015, 01:25:52 AM »
Thanks Groundloop.
Two things have happened. The 5W pot on the original circuit was damaged (burnt?) at the position where the circuit draws 0.6 Amps. I am assuming this because trying to set it to a current draw of 0.6 it either jumps to 0.4 or 0.8. I have not yet tried a 0.47uF Capacitor but will try it on the original circuit this weekend.

The second is that I have managed to get a used analogue oscilloscope. So the learning curve has suddenly steepened somewhat for me.

It is a Pintek PS-605 60MHz dual trace oscilloscope. I am sure that it will be more than adequate for my purposes. It has a really cool function where you can test different components such as resistors, capacitors, diodes and transistors. I am busy studying the manual and have managed to take some measurements on the second circuit that I built last night. If my calculations are correct the circuit oscillates at 11.9 KHz. (the wave length is 4.2 divisions at a time/div setting of 0.2uS) It was interesting to see that the waveform on the "positive" side of L1 and one of the outputs of L3 looks very similar except that L3 is more "noisy". 

The peak to peak voltage on the positive of L1 (again assuming that my maths/understanding has not failed me) is 40V. (4 Divisions at a setting of volt/div setting of 1V and the probe at 10x gives me 40V)

The Voltage on L3 (L1 and L3 are connected the same way and L2 is reversed) Taken at the same side as L1 looks the same and the frequency appears to be exactly the same. The voltage there is also about 40V.

Does this seem correct?

Here are pics of the two waveforms I am talking about. The second one is L3.

Thanks
Marnus

Marnus,

You have way to much DC bias current going to the base of your transistor. Solution is to increase the series resistor value
to approx. 150 to 200 Ohm.

Congratulations with your new o-scope. A two channel 60MHz o-scope is OK to have in a hobby electronic environment.

Use the minus rail as o-scope ground (where the transistor emitter is) and measure at the base of the transistor and
also at the collector of the transistor. Use the DC setting on your o-scope to see the DC offset. Probe to X10 and scope
voltage input at highest setting at start-up.

Alex.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #180 on: February 21, 2015, 01:25:52 AM »

Offline Mars67

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #181 on: February 23, 2015, 06:36:35 AM »
Hi Alex

Thank you very much for your patience and persistence. I will post the measurementss here when I get home this afternoon.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Mars67

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #182 on: February 24, 2015, 08:58:15 AM »
OK so I played around with some different capacitors to see what impact they have on the circuit. I did not also get time to see what different resistors would do and I will see if I get time to check this evening. I took the DC measurements on the base and collector of the Transistor. With the original circuit I built using the 220nF Capacitor I measured a voltage average of 5.3V (the spikes differ in amplitude so I took the highest and lowest and averaged it) and the frequency of the circuit there is 4.26 KHz. On the collector the voltage is 35V and the frequency 4.3 KHz. I am attaching the two wave forms for the 220nF Capacitor only. The current I measured on the base is 0.485 A (with the circuit set to draw 0.6A from the ps)
 
Using a 330nF capacitor the values are Collector 5.5V, 1.01 KHz - Base  35V, 1.01KHz - Base current 0.425A (0.6A)
470nF Capacitor - Collector 5.7V, 2.04KHz - Base 36V, 2.04KHz - Base Current 0.425A (0.6A)



Offline Groundloop

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #183 on: February 24, 2015, 03:05:54 PM »
OK so I played around with some different capacitors to see what impact they have on the circuit. I did not also get time to see what different resistors would do and I will see if I get time to check this evening. I took the DC measurements on the base and collector of the Transistor. With the original circuit I built using the 220nF Capacitor I measured a voltage average of 5.3V (the spikes differ in amplitude so I took the highest and lowest and averaged it) and the frequency of the circuit there is 4.26 KHz. On the collector the voltage is 35V and the frequency 4.3 KHz. I am attaching the two wave forms for the 220nF Capacitor only. The current I measured on the base is 0.485 A (with the circuit set to draw 0.6A from the ps)
 
Using a 330nF capacitor the values are Collector 5.5V, 1.01 KHz - Base  35V, 1.01KHz - Base current 0.425A (0.6A)
470nF Capacitor - Collector 5.7V, 2.04KHz - Base 36V, 2.04KHz - Base Current 0.425A (0.6A)

Marnus,

If you run the circuit with a input of 9 Volt and the pot-meter is turned down to approx. zero Ohm, then the
maximum DC base current to the transistor should be 9/50 = 0,18 Ampere. When the pot-meter is turned
to maximum (500 Ohm) then the maximum DC base current should be 0,016 Ampere. So your measurement
of 0.425A base current can not be real or something is wrong. The pulses you measured from base to emitter
also looks wrong. Is the zero line on the o-scope at 0% or at the middle of the screen? For me it looks like you
are running the circuit with the base and emitter of the transistor swapped the wrong way? Have you
checked that? There should not be any large negative voltage spike on the base of the transistor because
the 1N4007 diode should remove any negative pulse voltage here. You should also disconnect the coils
and use a Ohm meter to check that it is NO short circuit between the three insulated coils.

Alex.


Offline Mars67

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #184 on: February 26, 2015, 01:28:57 PM »
Hi GL

I double checked and the transistor is definitely connected correctly. Looking at the bottom of the transistor with the pins above the mid line then pin 1 is on the left and that is the Base and pin 2, the emitter is on the right. The case of the Transistor is the collector. The emitter is the one connected to the common ground. I have quite an expensive clamp ammeter so I do not really have a reason to doubt its accuracy. Perhaps I am getting over reads due to the close proximity of the other wires although I made sure to get the correct wire in the clamp.

The previous wave forms posted I adjusted the vertical axis to be able to see the waveform properly. I am attaching the waveforms with the line on 0%. The waveform over the base/emitter is the first pic and the collector/emitter is the second pic. I am going to replace the 1N4007 diode this evening to see if there is anything wrong.

I checked the coils for a short again last night and did not find any. Both using a continuity tester on my multi meter as well as using the component testing mode of the oscope. It has a facility to indicate a short and I found nothing. I did get an AC current measurement on the base of 0.07 Amps with the pot open about two thirds (i.e. lower resistance)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #184 on: February 26, 2015, 01:28:57 PM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #185 on: February 26, 2015, 11:07:21 PM »
Hi GL

I double checked and the transistor is definitely connected correctly. Looking at the bottom of the transistor with the pins above the mid line then pin 1 is on the left and that is the Base and pin 2, the emitter is on the right. The case of the Transistor is the collector. The emitter is the one connected to the common ground. I have quite an expensive clamp ammeter so I do not really have a reason to doubt its accuracy. Perhaps I am getting over reads due to the close proximity of the other wires although I made sure to get the correct wire in the clamp.

The previous wave forms posted I adjusted the vertical axis to be able to see the waveform properly. I am attaching the waveforms with the line on 0%. The waveform over the base/emitter is the first pic and the collector/emitter is the second pic. I am going to replace the 1N4007 diode this evening to see if there is anything wrong.

I checked the coils for a short again last night and did not find any. Both using a continuity tester on my multi meter as well as using the component testing mode of the oscope. It has a facility to indicate a short and I found nothing. I did get an AC current measurement on the base of 0.07 Amps with the pot open about two thirds (i.e. lower resistance)

Marnus,

Please do a test, replace the pot-meter with a fixed resistor of 10K. Swap the L1 coil wires around.
O-scope the base on the transistor with o-scope ground to the emitter. Put your analog DC ampere
meter in series with the base and close to the transistor.

Alex.

Offline lzbin80

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #186 on: February 27, 2015, 05:07:49 PM »
Check out my new YouTube video

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=abJuStUv4K8

It shows what happens when you condition a "DEAD" car battery with a tiny Bedini coil.

The battery is a 12volt 60Ah Varta Blue.

Most points are explained in the video, (I think)

I hope you enjoy it

Bourne

The voltage jumping around may indicate that the battery cannot take in charges that fast. it may also indicate venting and fully charged already.

By keep refilling electrolyte/distilled water for the venting, you can successfully recover and venting a battery at the same time.

John Bedini charge and discharge his battery during his recovery process.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #186 on: February 27, 2015, 05:07:49 PM »
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Offline Mars67

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #187 on: March 02, 2015, 02:05:52 PM »
Hi Alex

I set up the circuit exactly like you requested (50 Ohm and 10K fixed resistor, 200nF Cap). If I swop the wires of L1 around the circuit does not oscillate at all. If I swap back the L1 wires I get the following measurements on the oscope. Base/Emitter voltage with the oscope zeroed. The total amplitude = 2 Volts (1 Volts positive?) and the frequency is 8.3KHz.

The Collector/Emitter figures are 22V and 8.3KHz.

I got an analogue ammeter that reads up to a maximum of 1 Amp for a finer scale and the current on the base indicates .04Amps.

Here are the waveforms. Base first and then Collector

Offline Groundloop

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #188 on: March 02, 2015, 02:56:26 PM »
Hi Alex

I set up the circuit exactly like you requested (50 Ohm and 10K fixed resistor, 200nF Cap). If I swop the wires of L1 around the circuit does not oscillate at all. If I swap back the L1 wires I get the following measurements on the oscope. Base/Emitter voltage with the oscope zeroed. The total amplitude = 2 Volts (1 Volts positive?) and the frequency is 8.3KHz.

The Collector/Emitter figures are 22V and 8.3KHz.

I got an analogue ammeter that reads up to a maximum of 1 Amp for a finer scale and the current on the base indicates .04Amps.

Here are the waveforms. Base first and then Collector

Marnus,

Thank you for taking time to do the test. OK, now everything looks as it should be.
So the main reason for the pot-meter warm up was the large DC base current.
You need to use a higher value for the 50 Ohm resistor. I recommend around 100 to
200 Ohm. The resistors should be 5 Watt rated. The wire wound pot-meter should
be approx. 1K and at least 5 Watt for the coils you made.

The strange pause in your pulses (when run normally) is to the fact that the
circuit is using more current than your power supply can provide. So you need
a power supply that can deliver at least 2 - 3 Ampere at 9 Volt. A large electrolytic
capacitor (2200uF 35V) close to your circuit input between plus and minus may also help.

It may also help to use a faster diode than the 1N4007. If you have more of the BYV29
diode, use that instead.

Alex.


Offline Mars67

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #189 on: March 02, 2015, 03:01:12 PM »
That is great news thanks Alex. Thank you very much for your help. I will change the circuit as advised and post the results back here.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #189 on: March 02, 2015, 03:01:12 PM »
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Offline eklogite

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #190 on: July 29, 2015, 09:20:45 PM »
First, Hello to great forum and great people...

Dear GL,
I have read all the thread about your circuits, batteries and suggestions.
I have a few questions that you may help me.

I have 4 SLA 100AH batteries which are heavily sulphated, cells are also dried.
I opened first battery caps and added distilled water up to cover the cells...
I can see thick 4-5 mm white lead sulphate crystalls on plates using a flashlight.
The batteries accept charge and I charge them with a 10A PWM solar charge controller with a 80W panel made myself.
The battery accepts charge and the actual capacity is ~5AH. Voltage is 13.25- 13.35 at full charged state.

I want to use the charger circuit you posted in page 7.
Since 100AH battery capacity makes a very high current, don't you think the coil L2 may heat up and burn ?
When going to start, should the battery be discharged or partially charged?
I have a 12V 1A switching power supply to use for this propose, is it a good choice?
What resistor do you suggest ??
I have also trouble finding the components here, does 2n3055 transistor preform okay ???

Thank you very much,
Eklogite

Offline eklogite

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #191 on: August 01, 2015, 10:23:22 AM »
Hi there,
I have built the circuit in page 7, it is working fine but there is a small problem.
The current that the charger puts on the battery is only 50-60 mAh !
The battery voltage is going up very slowly.
I were unable to find the suitable core and used a 10mm drill bit instead of the ferrite rod core.
I am now charging the 100Ah battery, will post the results after my first cycle.
Power supply is 11.5V 3Ah

Thanks again.
Eklogite
« Last Edit: August 01, 2015, 06:11:02 PM by eklogite »


Offline ViKARLL

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #192 on: October 12, 2015, 07:42:41 PM »
Hi Alex,

I have read this long thread and your detailed replies given with immense patience. 

I have a few questions before I get started to build this interesting circuit. My apologies if I happen to ask a question to which you have already replied in the past.

I have acquired the BU 2508AX transistor, the 470R 5W resister and the cap 220nF 250V. I was stuck with the Ferrite rod since they are no longer available in my country. But I have managed to source out the following;

1) A Ferrite rod removed from an old AM radio - Diameter 8mm and length 80mm (it is sort of oval, not round!)
2) Another Ferrite rod I managed to grind out from a TV Fly-back transformer core - Diameter 14mm and length 20mm.

Which one is better and what changes should I do to the number of turns and the gauge of winding wire?

My batteries are in the range of 6V 90Ah to 12V 65Ah.
 
Thanking you in advance for your kind reply,

Cheers,

ViKARLL

 
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 09:32:48 AM by ViKARLL »

Offline ViKARLL

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #193 on: October 21, 2015, 11:06:22 AM »
Hi Alex,

Any luck with the information I requested?

Thank you,

ViKARLL

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline ourbobby

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #194 on: June 15, 2016, 09:05:55 AM »
To Groundloop,
                       Hello, I know it is possible that you have discontinued replying to this very interesting thread. However, you might chance upon it again. My question is this. what is the maximum voltage the original circuit you proposed with the trifilar coil will raise the 12volt battery to? As I believe that the voltage of 15.5v on another forum has been suggested for a continuous use of the Lead Acid battery by allowing a complete conditioning of the plates, when charging the battery at the higher voltage, thus giving the battery an extensive longer life. Will it be possible to rise to this voltage without boiling the batteries with your charger?

I look forward to you passing by this thread again and replying to my post.

Thank you

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #194 on: June 15, 2016, 09:05:55 AM »

 

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