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New Battery systems => Other new battery systems => Topic started by: nightlife on January 13, 2008, 08:00:59 AM
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I checked to see if water had any electric current due to others getting a electric current from the earth and I found that water actual contains a electric current. The first test showed about .68 volts and it did not change when water was added or taken away. I then put two cups of water in a series and it doubled. I then put five cups of water in a series and I have over 4 volts. I then found two dead 9 volt battery's and the water is charging them because they now have power where as before I attached them I checked them to make sure they were dead first. They tested at 3.5 volts but dropped fast to about .5 while testing them. I am going to let them charge over night and see what I get in the morning.
I am using steel heat duct straps as negatives and insulated copper wire as positives.
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put a bit of vinegar or lemon juice in the water and it will work better, it also will work better in beer.
Hans von Lieven
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hansvonlieven, I think you are missing my point here. It's not the water, it's the metal and it's the fact that the metal is attracting frequency?s and the water is storing them due to the minerals it contains. I tried it with well water and spring water and they all have the same results. I tried it with rain water and I got about half the voltage.
The amount per container didn't change the voltage but I am thinking that the amount could add or subtract amperage depending on the amount used in each container.
I just checked a battery and it is now at 4.38 and it is not dropping the volts as fast as it did before. The longer it charges, the more amperage and voltage it collects.
I am going to add more cups tomorrow and get the series up to 12 volts and run some test with a 12 volt car battery because I can check the amperage load better with my automotive battery tester.
I will try adding vinager and then try it with lemon juice after I find out more about this that I am trying now.
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It is simple galvanic action, nothing more. The rainwater proves it, try distilled water and it will drop even further.
Read up on electrolytes. frequency has nothing to do with it.
Galvanic action produces DC!!!!!
Hans von Lieven
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@nightlife
Have you tried Lord Kelvins experiment? Water really puts out some kicks!
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Have you tried Lord Kelvins experiment? Water really puts out some kicks!
@AhuraMazda
Which particular experiment are you referring to ? Is there a website that you know of which presents an outline of the particular experiment ?
If so, are you able to provide a link to it ? I'm very curious. I already know about galvanic activity with differing metals immersed in an electrolyte.
But I am curious if there are other experiments which point to something more than mere galvanism.
Cheers from the Toad who Hops :)
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If so, are you able to provide a link to it ? I'm very curious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY1eyLEo8_A&feature=related
@ All earthcell pioneers -
I finished my water cell trying 8 cells in series and parallel. 3.2 volts at 38mA. Thats about enough for one LED. :D I'm pretty much burnt out on trying water cells. I figure the only way to get usable current out of a water cell would be to fill 5 gallon buckets full of two metals and have like 50 of them. :-[ Of course I could charge a battery with patience.
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AhuraMazda, I have not tried that and if it is the same one as Freezer provided a link to, it is interesting and worth checking out.
Freezer, I found that it didn't matter how much water was used in each container, the results were the same. When I got up I checked the battery and it was charged to 4.40 volts and that is the same as the voltage of the series of 5 cups of water used. I am going to get some more supply's today to set up a better presentation as well as to create more voltage. I want to get up to 12 volts and then I will use a dead 12 volt car battery to see if the series of cells will charge it. I will then load test the battery to see if any amps are achieved. I will do this in different time intervals such as 30 minutes, 1 hour, 2 hours, 4 hours, 8 hours and 24 hours. I will record each finding and post the results.
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I would look for copper/magnesium sheet, as that will yield more than copper/galvanized metals. Remember you need amps, not necessarily high volts. Its gonna take years to charge that 12v battery with a small amount of mA @12v. Unfortunately water cells don't give high current, at least not how it been conventionally done. Who knows though, there could be a lot better ways to configure it. What I have learned so far is that surface area, and distance between electrodes make the difference.
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Freezer, I did find that flat galvanized metal works better then round galvanized and I now have 13.2 volts with 15 9oz cups with about 3oz of water in each one. I am now charging a 9volt battery that only had 2.4 volts with this 13.2 volt series. I will post the results in about 30 minutes. It is now 3:30pm Michigan time.
I am almost positive that the metal attracts frequency's and the minerals in the water are absorbing the frequency's. I am also thinking the amps would be based on the amount of water used in each cup. I am also thinking that the size of metal used has to do with the rate of accumulation of the frequency's.
I would like to know what minerals in the water are absorbing the frequency.
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I just checked the 9volt battery and it now has 4.7 volts. That is almost double what it had before I started charging it with the water cell I created. The cell voltage was 4.7volts too but it immediately starting climbing back up when I disconnected the battery and I will check it again in a couple of minutes. The battery dropped to 3.87 after I disconnected it from the cell but it still has more then 30% more voltage then when I started.
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I put a 12vdc 2400 watt load on the cell and the voltage dropped to 1.13volts rather quickly but stopped dropping fast once it hit the 1.13volt mark. That tells me the water cell contains amperage.
I am guessing that if a multiply the cell by 12, I should get a usable 12volt power supply. That would mean I need 180 cups in a series to achieve that goal provided my thoughts are correct.
First I am going to experiment with some higher amounts of water as well as some larger pieces of metal to see if I get a higher level of voltage with the same load I introduced before.
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OK
One of the interesting things that makes me know the earth cell isn't producing its effect from only galvanic reaction is that it works (less to be sure) with the same metal. Cu to Cu gives me 0.05vdc.
What do you get if the 2 metals are the same?
BTW there is nothing wrong with galvanic reaction. It is an irritation to have to clean off the gunked up metal every day or so. You may get more juice from lemon juice or vinegar but it will gunk up faster.
It is wonderfully empowering to be able to make a battery in cups with water. If the grid goes down it will be good to know this. There are so many ions and metals in tap water these days. Depending on where you live the rain has ionized stuff in it too. Acid rain is water with ions in it; otherwise it would be neutral.
Let us know,
jeanna
I don't even know how to test for frequency. maybe the ac?
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put a bit of vinegar or lemon juice in the water and it will work better, it also will work better in beer.
Hans von Lieven
But Hans, It would RUIN the beer!
;D
jeanna
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Good call jeanna,
I for one don't want to be accused of alcohol abuse LOL ;D
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quite right, the reaction, is galvanic for want of a more scientific description, and let us spare you the long experiments.
let us say your "battery" did indeed gain in voltage as you "fill your large buckets with water and metal" place them in series or whatever. it is
1) still a battery that has a life Span as the reaction dies due to various reactions, ferric will rust others will simply develop coatings of calcium and the like destroying the effect.
2) the cost of such batteries over lead is way over the top, your only benefit is that water is cheaper than the original acid. so its a more expensive battery with less output, and more energy to produce high end metals than lead which requires very little from lead based ore etc, so is also not environmentally friendly.
3)and most importantly, the charge from galvanic reactions dissapears in any form of loop that earths, or has high end neutral (large frame structure) so is not constant. albeit when i say not constant, if you lift out the metal and place it back in, the reaction will restart for as much as a few seconds. So your 10 amp winch to lift your milliamp producing battery, kinda ends the point of the exercise.
4) and most importantly as seems to be missed in all of the battery posts here is self discharge especially on rechargeable batteries. leave a batterry connected to any device not turned on and it will discharge at over ten times the rate as one in your kitchen drawer. a good example is the top of the range Sony battery charger for 1.5 (1.2 actually) AA batteries, the moment they are fully charged the device stops, and they start to discharge, leave them in the sony charger turned on but untouched for a week and they will be all but flat. diode switching does not work,it is the connection of the batteries to metal surfaces on each end. actually a good science experiment is to get say six batteries take three and tape a 1 foot wire to each contact of three of them, (do not let the other ends of the wires touch each other or any other items) and lay them on a table for a week next to the other three and measure the levels, if using rechargeables, the ones with the wires will be nearly flat, believe it or not the next worst performer for this problem is the brand new mighty lithium batteries. contact without current flow still causes loss of charge. Even galvanic batteries suffer this problem now add number 4 to number 5
5) volts give you the jolts but amps give you the cramps. you can actually get 240 volt from a battery at 1 milliamp, without amperage (actual power)your voltage readings mean nothing.
Hans is correct, but i say put the metal contacts into the potplant beside you and drink the beer, you will at least feel a charge.
(although we could change the energy rating stickers on appliances to buckets i suppose :) Hey dude check out my new 350 bucket IPOD
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Although you'll have to move to acerage land if your sister wants an IPOD too ;)
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The Eskimo Quinn. my experiment has to do with frequency's. I have proven that a flat piece of metal creates more voltage then a round piece of the same height and weight. I did the same test using a potato and with a nail I got .44 volts but with the flat piece I got .98 volts. They were both 3.5 inches long and both are galvanized but the nail was heavier which tells me the nail contained more steel then the plate did but yet the plate created more voltage.
I understand about the amps but the cell is charging battery's that have set around. My son charged a AAA battery for his Ipod and before it was charged we installed it in his Ipod to make sure it didn't have enough power to operate it and it didn't. We then charged the battery for 15 minutes with the cell and then installed it and it played 10 songs before it went dead. We are now charging it over night to see what the results will be.
I am using this cell as a way to prove my theory of electricity being nothing more then frequency's. I am not using pails of water and I am only using 9oz cups with about 3oz's of water. I have found that flat metal creates more voltage then round metal and that helps prove my theory. I also found that the amount of water makes no difference but the size of the metal plates do. This proves my theory even more. Minerals that are in the water and the potato are absorbing the frequency's that attracted to the plates. I am trying to find out what minerals are and or combination of minerals are absorbing the frequency?s.
John Hutchinson showed he collected certain crystallized rocks and crushed them and stuck them in steel containers with a rod in the middle and got voltage. He claimed that they never die and showed them to run a motor. This is what I am after and as soon as I find the right mixture I think I can perfect the concept better by using plated cells instead of round ones like he used.
This water cell and the potato cell are just the beginning of my experiments and I found them to be the easiest way to test my theory at this time. I will eventually move to solid mineral cells when I figure out which solid minerals work the best.
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If so, are you able to provide a link to it ? I'm very curious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY1eyLEo8_A&feature=related
@Freezer
Thanks for the link - Intriguing stuff I must say!
Cheers from the Toad who Hops
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Nightlife,
How much copper is exposed from the insulated copper wire on each end?
Is it that insulated copper wire the thick stranded hook up wire?
Also, please, how big is the sheet metal? I assume if it is duct metal that it is galvanized with zinc?
thanks,
jeanna
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jeanna, the wire was only 8 and I only stripped about 1inch of the insulation off from both ends. The metal I used was strapping that holds up duct work. It was about 1.5 inches wide and 5 inches long. I then used a piece of metal that was about 3 inches wide and 5 inches long and the voltage doubled. The wider the metal used, the more voltage I got. They were all galvanized as far as I could tell by looking at them.
I hope that helps.
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hansvonlieven, I found the following about galvantic action.
"Alternatively if you can not afford the cost of a galvanic isolator unplugging your shoreline when the boat is not in use breaks the metallic bond preventing any galvanic action taking place."
That tells me that iron in a cup of water would not have a galvanic action as long as the iron is not attached to anything. What are your thoughts on this?
http://www.ledgardbridge-boatcompany.com/html/galvanic_action.html
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Nightlife,
Yesterday I found a big sheet of coppr in the thrift store. It was in the form of a copper aspic mold. I put a little water in it and some sodium carbonate (washing soda from arm n hammer). Then I placed a piece of unprinted newsprint on the copper surface and on top of that a piece of steel/iron from last month's welding class. It gave a pretty good galvanic reaction. In fact better than any I have seen inside the house. Notice the Plus probe is on the copper.
please go the earth battery page where I made a joke of it. ( because local joe had made the turkey choke joke)
I think it might say a bit about surface area or something, I dunno.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3500.945.html
jeanna
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jeanna, sorry it took so long for me to get back to you. I did see your comment on the other thread with your picture and it gave me a couple idea's, so thank you for that.
Do you know how long a galvanic action will last? Or if it looses power over time? I am also wondering if they can be put in parallel as well as in series if they would create more amperage?
Below is a sketch of a single cell idea that could be put in series as well as in parallel.
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(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7488/wbww3.jpg)
I wonder what would happen if you used palladium? ;)
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Freezer, have you tried to run any parallel as well as in a series? Did you also note that there wasn't a difference in the amount of water used? I found I got the same results using just a little bit of water apposed to greater amounts.
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Do you know how long a galvanic action will last? Or if it looses power over time? I am also wondering if they can be put in parallel as well as in series if they would create more amperage?
Yes they can be put in parallel as well as series.
No, I don't know how long it will last because each set of chemicals would work differently. It has always been dissapointing. The salmon was an alkaline battery because I used sodium carbonate as the "salt" (electrolyte) in the water. I did a study of different kinds of acid batteries a few years ago. lemon juice and copper and zinc etc. They were only good for about 6 hours.
In general what happens is that one of the electrodes (or probes if you want) will get plated with the other. I think a chemist could predict which one would be plated on the other. But there is another kind of reaction. It takes the electrolyte and puts IT onto the probes.
Either way it slows down after a while and eventually stops.
Then the deal would be that if you pumped electricity back the other way from how it was going, you would redissolve the plating off the electrode and back into the solution. And you would have recharged your battery.
My mother used to polish her silver by soaking the tarnished silver in a bath of water + baking soda along with a big piece of aluminum foil. The foil would get black and the silver would shine. It never occurred to any of us to see what electricity potential came from it!
I also have a story about boats and galvanic action.
Steel hulled boats will get rusty from oxidation in the water. Warm salt water is the worst. They would spring a leak and sink. So, Someone had the bright idea to use galvanized zinc screws to hold the hulls together. Zinc electrons would fill in the "electron space" lost to the oxidation in the rust. It worked pretty well for a while, but after a while the electrons from the zinc would have become lost in the reaction and the zinc screws would be too small to fill the holes and the boat would sink.
I don't know if that is a true story or not. My high school chemistry teacher told it. I guess I learned the principle, even if it wasn't a true story. :D
Keep on building things and trying things. It's all good! :D and fun besides.
jeanna
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I wonder what would happen if you used palladium? ;)
Nice and bright.
And where would you ever get palladium?
:D
jeanna
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jeanna, thank you.
What about epson salt? Have you tried that before?
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I wonder what would happen if you used palladium? ;)
Nice and bright.
And where would you ever get palladium?
:D
jeanna
The six platinum group metals are ruthenium, rhodium, palladium, osmium, iridium, and platinum. They have similar physical and chemical properties. Platinum, rhodium and palladium are used extensively in the jewelery trade as final coats for base metal castings and such. most electro-platers that do jewelery will use these metals if you ask for it.
These coatings are not very expensive, just a little more than gold plate, which is cheap. Because the action in these applications is confined to the surface, electroplated base metal will give exactly the same results as solid metal.
Hans von Lieven
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most electro-platers that do jewelery will use these metals if you ask for it.
These coatings are not very expensive, just a little more than gold plate, which is cheap. Because the action in these applications is confined to the surface, electroplated base metal will give exactly the same results as solid metal.
Hans von Lieven
Thanks Hans. Great information.
jeanna
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I was going to make a joke of this... something like "sell power back to the electric company while you polish your silver", but I think batteries in general have had quite enough jokes for the day. but go ahead I made the joke so you can chuckle. ;D
Last night I said no one ever checked the sink for power output when my mom was polishing her silver with baking soda and Aluminum foil. So I checked. This is sodium carbonate not bi-carbonate, but hey!
Each cell is reading 1.25VDC.
Pretty good. especially since it is doing a lot of hard work for you just when Christmas festivities are starting and you want to sit down with a glass of sherry instead of polishing the silver!
jeanna
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LOL Jeanna,
You are a true scientist. You find something to inquire into everywhere.
After all where would we be today if Luigi Galvani had not played around with an electrophorus and frogs legs.
I love your spirit
Hans von Lieven
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Hi everybody
I wonder if there's a way to transform this voltage to amperage ???and here is the why , my batteries made with concrete are giving out solid readings even if dry heavy and bulky yes but I bet we could make them run at least a dc motor or something else
cheers ;D