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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: Craigy on January 04, 2008, 10:11:39 PM

Title: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 04, 2008, 10:11:39 PM
I think this could be the real deal , off of the steorn public site

OCs MPMM Test Demo #1

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JVMJOoEQ6_A&eurl=http://freeenergytrackers.ning.com/video/video/show?id=1638621%3AVideo%3A2526, Removed after 30 mins replaced below...

Edit?: Since this thread is now up to 108 pages you can find a current synopsos of the project over at peswiki.com that way you will be saved the trouble of going through it all..and you can get up to speed quickly.
 
 http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:OC_MPMM_Magnet_Motor
or
 http://www.OC-MPMM.com
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Honk on January 04, 2008, 10:35:30 PM
Cannot view. YouTube says this:
"This is a private video. If you have been sent this video, please make sure you accept the sender's friend request."
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Craigy on January 04, 2008, 10:38:52 PM
you will have to go over to steorn if you want any more info the video was up for 30 mins and i didn't have time to save it , sorry its in the public forum
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: rrintoul on January 04, 2008, 10:42:12 PM
http://freeenergytrackers.ning.com/video/video/show?id=1638621%3AVideo%3A2526&context=user

Sorry, it worked 5 minutes ago.  Now it's been removed.

Update: I was able to retrieve it from ~/.mozilla/firefox/.../Cache.  Can I put it somewhere?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Honk on January 04, 2008, 10:53:32 PM
How big is it?
And which encoding is used?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: bourne on January 04, 2008, 11:03:17 PM
If it was on Youtube it must be smaller than 50mb

The Suspense !!

Technical problems and Steorn seem to go hand in hand  :-\
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: rrintoul on January 04, 2008, 11:07:44 PM
7 MB.

It's not related to Steorn, it's just mentioned in the forum.

It's .flv format.  VLC will play it in windows or linux.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: dhirschfelder on January 04, 2008, 11:08:04 PM
filetype is flash .flv and is 7 meg approx

http://yirkha.fud.cz/steorn/JVMJOoEQ6_A.flv
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: rrintoul on January 04, 2008, 11:20:43 PM
It's back on Youtube for now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIvZJ9xGutI
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Honk on January 04, 2008, 11:25:31 PM
Interesting but not convincing.
I miss seing the whole apparatus from all angles.
And the motor shaft should be loaded to see if it still works under load.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: bourne on January 04, 2008, 11:30:03 PM
WOW!!

What is a "Magno-kenetic jensen damper" ?

Am I right in thinking two of the stator magnets are spinning opposite direction to the rotor and the third with the rotor?

Then

He stops the two opposite spinning stators and it accelerates

Very interesting idea
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Dansway on January 04, 2008, 11:30:38 PM
Very interesting indeed!

Who created this motor?  I would like to ask some questions.  As always, thanks for sharing and posting your work!

Regards,

Dan
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: TheOne on January 04, 2008, 11:36:59 PM
First video that does not look like fake for a neo magnet motor!

Thank for the video!

Here the schematic of the motor from the steorn forum
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Craigy on January 04, 2008, 11:40:33 PM
The damper is an aluminium bar, we think it acts as a brake to the rotor to enable a more robust magnetic transaction to take place.

The diagram above was the concept , it has undergone a few subtle changes
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: JoinTheFun on January 04, 2008, 11:44:25 PM
Read all about it (http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=59687&page=8#Comment_2267441).
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Dansway on January 04, 2008, 11:48:12 PM
Ok I see the schem for the idea of this motor, but what subtle changes have been made?
What do the stator mags look like?

Thanks.

Dan
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: bourne on January 04, 2008, 11:49:21 PM
@TheOne

Have I seen that picture posted somewhere before? on this site I mean?

Your right it doesn't seem fake.

@Craigy

Beefed up using lenz' law ??

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Craigy on January 05, 2008, 12:15:57 AM
Similar yes , if you mean the design that had magnets spining on cogs linked to the rotor, but here they are free to rotate.  This was discovered by accident , the idea was that the magnets were to contra rotate to the direction of the rotor. Then one was spun the wrong way by mistake and the video is the result
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Dansway on January 05, 2008, 12:20:05 AM
@Craigy,

Please, could you let me know what the stator magnets look like or relay their geometry so that I can work on a replication?

Are they round magnets (sphere) or something else?

Regards,

Dan

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: hydrocontrol on January 05, 2008, 12:21:25 AM
It "looks" real but so did Mike's self running motor..
Skeptic mode on :
'If you going to build a bullet proof demo that you are going to promote then build it entirely out of CLEAR material. Why is the base made out of clear material but the rotor made out a material that could easily hide a small motor underneath ? Why does the lighting need to be so poor ? Sure it was picked up to show nothing directly under the motor but the backside of the motor was never shown. Why ? A possible way to fake this is to have a already running motor with a flywheel with magnets attached under the table. By hand spinning the rotor it would sync up with the already running motor under the table by way of magnetic coupling. I am not saying it was done this way but with the recent glut of fake PMM videos you get skeptical after a fashion.
Skeptic mode off :

'Looks' promising. More and better videos plus constructions specs need to follow so independent building can proceed.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Craigy on January 05, 2008, 12:28:41 AM
All noted..But this does not self sustan just yet. it is doing some weird things like accelerating , and the wind down time is far longer than it should be, i have bought the same magnets , although won't get them for 2 weeks as i am down in the canaries

edit..

Magnets are from kjmagnetics.com

Part Number: R834DIA
1 Pack of 10
Unit Price: $17.10
Product Total: $17.10
--------------------------
Part Number: B448
1 Pack of 10
Unit Price: $8.20
Product Total: $8.20
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: bourne on January 05, 2008, 12:34:12 AM
Opposites attract

An idea keeps popping into my head. When dealing with magnets, if the opposite of what you want to achieve is performed it will attract the desired result.

The video, if indeed real (please let it be so), sort of proves that !

@hydrocontrol

watch the beginning again, when he is spinning the stators slowly with his fingers you can see the magnetic interactions flicking the rotor round. No way is there a motor running under the table.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Craigy on January 05, 2008, 12:49:27 AM
the autor of the video did not want to so it as a working machine , just to show the werid behaviour he is of the opinion that its picking up some radiation from somewhere,  even so that it is intruging.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 05, 2008, 01:37:20 AM
This is one of the most exciting experiments so far. On par with those of @xpenzif and the Lego one. In fact it's a variation of the Lego motor design and of a design whose plans I purchased overa year ago from ebay coming from:

http://grandpawsshop.com/

Unfortunately, surprise, lack of funds and mostly lack of a convincing video such as this of @alsetalonkin prevented me from going ahead with it.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: jonnydavro on January 05, 2008, 02:01:59 AM
Hi,im not a prolific poster but i am quietly replicating idea's from this forum,currently one of  plengo's, but this magnet motor looks very intresting.
Here is a pdf of parts list and discusion between designer and a very skillful engineer for  proof of concept.
Here is link to photos off the results.

http://freeenergytrackers.ning.com/photo

Regards Jonnydavro
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: TheOne on January 05, 2008, 03:49:26 AM
From the photo of the guys, here some text about a photo:

Quote
Measuring the rotation rate of a stator magnet with the laser tachometer.
Red color is from the laser.
Motion is completely frozen by the flash, but the stator magnet is going over 5000 rpm, and the rotor is turning 1250+.

Is this is possible to get this kind of quality on a moving rotor?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Dansway on January 05, 2008, 04:04:34 AM
A good camera can stop this type of rotation easily.

The tach looks like it is showing a part of a "5" in it's display.

Dan
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Mr.Entropy on January 05, 2008, 04:09:46 AM
Is this is possible to get this kind of quality on a moving rotor?

Yes, if it's dark and you use a flash. 

Look at the gap to the left of the word "Ride!".  You can see the blurry white continuation of the disk that was recorded on the film when the flash was off.

I gotta say that this video is very exciting.  Alsetalonkin does good work and seems to have earned credibility.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: TheOne on January 05, 2008, 04:32:59 AM
Is this is possible to get this kind of quality on a moving rotor?

Yes, if it's dark and you use a flash. 

Look at the gap to the left of the word "Ride!".  You can see the blurry white continuation of the disk that was recorded on the film when the flash was off.

I gotta say that this video is very exciting.  Alsetalonkin does good work and seems to have earned credibility.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy


You are right, I did not know you can capture such a good photo with a rotating rotor :)

I have the same magnet for the inner rotor (100), I will ebay the other magnet and hopefully find cheaper one compared to the site suggested and maybe try a replica
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: TheOne on January 05, 2008, 04:54:59 AM
Ok I find some on ebay for the outer magnet, what do you think about this magnets?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/20-Neodymium-Magnets-1-2-x-1-8-inch-Disc-DIAMETRIC-N48_W0QQitemZ160117140919QQihZ006QQcategoryZ413QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m118

20 Neodymium Magnets 1/2 x 1/8 inch Disc DIAMETRIC N48 (so its like 10 x 1/2 x 1/4)

Its 2$ less then the other site suggested but with the shipping included

Update:

Its maybe not a good idea since you cannot stack 2 magnets with diametric magnet so get the 1/4 size instead of 1/8
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: hydrocontrol on January 05, 2008, 05:47:37 AM
After viewing photos and comments at this site from the actual builder
http://freeenergytrackers.ning.com/photo/photo/show?id=1638621%3APhoto%3A2306

this PMM is looking a bit more real.. Perhaps there is hope of a real running PMM..
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: TheOne on January 05, 2008, 05:47:54 AM
I was thinking I can use sphere magnet, they can spin inside a little transparent cylinder tube, I have 2 sphere magnets, not that powerfull but I can try this with them first
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: magnusx on January 05, 2008, 06:19:42 AM
Looks promising - the Free Energy Tracker page has photos and measurements by the guy who made it all so it should be easy to replicate provided that you can machine the parts accurately (I can't or I would be doing it now!) This one looks very good just for the openness of these folk.  :)

 I'm curious about the "why" though - any theories on how this thing works yet folks?

Note that the small spinner mag's sit on top of bearings and you can bet they are steel. Does it have any effect on the device?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: RunningBare on January 05, 2008, 09:21:00 AM
I was thinking I can use sphere magnet, they can spin inside a little transparent cylinder tube, I have 2 sphere magnets, not that powerfull but I can try this with them first

The stator magnets are diametrically magnetized, unless you can find a way to keep the spheres oriented in the correct plane I doubt it will work.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: sterlinga on January 05, 2008, 10:28:29 AM
I've posted a feature page aat PESWiki.  Feel free to help us compile a good synopsis of this technology as it emerges, including a clear and adequate set of plans, list of replications, theory, data, etc.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:OC_MPMM_Magnet_Motor (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:OC_MPMM_Magnet_Motor)

Steorn Forum Members Post Their Own Magnet Motor Demo Video - A couple of forum members have been kicking around ideas for how to build an all-magnet motor with no other motive force.  One of them shot a video showing acceleration of the device, but he doesn't seem to realize what he's accomplished. (PESWiki; Jan. 5, 2008)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: RunningBare on January 05, 2008, 10:38:02 AM
I've posted a feature page aat PESWiki.  Feel free to help us compile a good synopsis of this technology as it emerges, including a clear and adequate set of plans, list of replications, theory, data, etc.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:OC_MPMM_Magnet_Motor (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:OC_MPMM_Magnet_Motor)

Steorn Forum Members Post Their Own Magnet Motor Demo Video - A couple of forum members have been kicking around ideas for how to build an all-magnet motor with no other motive force.  One of them shot a video showing acceleration of the device, ""but he doesn't seem to realize what he's accomplished.""[/b] (PESWiki; Jan. 5, 2008)


At the risk of speaking for them both, I think they do realize, but thats not the point, it would be very foolish to jump the gun at this point, I for one hope they both keep their feet on the ground and continue to research and experiment before they start shouting OU or similar.
But I gotta admit, I'm very excited about this!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: jox on January 05, 2008, 11:19:12 AM
kjmagnetics part number B448, which I assume are the rotor magnets, appear to be
magnetized through the thickness. The drawings show magnetization along the length.
Is this the correct part?
http://kjmagnetics.com/search.asp

jox
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Jdo300 on January 05, 2008, 11:51:45 AM
Hello All,

This motor setup looks quite exciting! For those of us interested in replicating the motor exactly like the original, I searched the Steorn thread for a description of the mechanical setup. Here's what alsetalokin posted about the dimensions of his setup:

Quote
A dimensioned sketch of the bearing/magnet holder assembly is posted on the other site. The baseplate that I am using is acrylic plastic, 5/8 in thick, 7 3/4 in x 8 1/2 in,
with a 1/4-20 threaded hole in the center for the rotor axle, and 13 evenly-spaced 4-40 threaded holes for the stator magnet bearing holders, on a circle of radius 3 3/8 in centered on the axle.
The rotor is 3/4 in thick piece of HDPE plastic, 2 7/8 in radius, with a 0.500 in center hole bored all the way thru for the flanged axle bearings. Magnets are held in 8 evenly-spaced 1/4 in wide slots, 7/16 in deep, inner edge of slots at the 2 1/2 in radius from center.

This is the basic layout for the 13x8 version that I am experimenting with. But I am mostly just using 3 stator magnets and a couple of "dummy" aluminum pieces of the same size as the magnets, also mounted in the same type of bearing holder.

The stator magnets are mounted by a single trimmed 4-40 SHCS and a little washer to make sure only the inner bearing race is contacting the screw or the baseplate.
The rotor magnets are press-fit in place.

I will draw up a CAD model of it based on the given dimensions and post it for those interested.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Jdo300 on January 05, 2008, 12:32:43 PM
Here's some more misc info I collected from him on the Steorn forum about the setup:
Quote
The stator magnets are mounted by a single trimmed 4-40 SHCS and a little washer to make sure only the inner bearing race is contacting the screw or the baseplate.
The rotor magnets are press-fit in place.
The stator mags are mounted coaxially with and above their bearings. The bearings are screwed down to the baseplate with a tiny spacer for clearance. The magnets are diametrically polarized.
These that I'm using now are for 3.5 mm shaft size, in a paired housing that slips into the rotor's central bore, extending down to a shock-mounted base bearing unit.

What I had in there before were just some generic flanged 1/4 inch bore unshielded bearings, and the shaft was a 1/4-20 brass screw. Not the most accurate arrangement.
8 Bearings bought from Stewart-Warner.
The dampers are 6061-T6 aluminum alloy.
The rotor is made of HDPE which is a bitch to machine, and cuts usually come out a little small. I used a 0.250 2-fluted end mill, one pass in width, to cut the slots for the 1/4 in nominal OD rotor magnets, and they press into the slots perfectly--that is, a medium press fit. So if you specify tolerances of +/- 0.0005, which is what I worked to on this project, all should be well.
The stator magnet/bearing holders are Delrin, and it cuts small too, but not as much as the HDPE. I cut for exactly 0.5000, and stopped when the mike read 0.4997. I wanted the magnets to be pretty tight so they wouldn't slip, anticipating the latch requirement.
With the Sherlines, I can always achieve +/- 0.0005 accuracy--they have digital readouts and are very accurate. If I am careful I can get down to 0.0002 in most materials.

Misc Note:

I have little data on variants. If the system works, as I suspect it will, with only the one stator magnet, you might try that first to see if you can reproduce the antigearwise motion, as a start.

The dampers are tuned by trial and error. If too close they retard the magnet too much and it won't synch. Too far and there's no benefit. Once the distance is found, rotating a little at a time and trying the spin until I found a "sweet spot" is how I did it. The effect of the dampers is small, in any case.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: jox on January 05, 2008, 12:42:01 PM
Sorry my mistake, it says the magnets are 1/4x1/4x1/2, the 1/2 being the thickness, which
to me is the length.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 05, 2008, 12:46:36 PM
Great, Jason. First, Happy New Year to you and all the best. I was mentioning somewhere that you might wanna do that, but I wasn't sure as to whether you'll have the time for that. I'm glad to see you're rolling up your sleeves. What has to be understood also is what exact magnets these are. Someone was questioning the direction of magnetization so we have to know that clearly so that we can order them right away. I wrote e-mails also to several other friends who might not have heard of this and see if they would also be willing to replicate it. What a fantastic start of the new year. Waiting for the drawings with great interest.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Craigy on January 05, 2008, 12:49:19 PM
i have ordered the same magnets, might be more expensive but need to replicate. And getting the same ones, hopefully will make that easier, now back to lathe.

When testing it would be good if we take readings of the gauss before, ambient temperature, but device in a faraday cage etc to try and narrow down a few things. Are the magnets being depleated? If they are not we could be on to a winner. Hope so guys
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 05, 2008, 02:32:23 PM
Thx to Craigy , Stator magnets ordered this end as well  ;D

Been trawling through the threads and so many posts trying to get the dimensions that Alsetalokin has used and found this snippet:

A dimensioned sketch of the bearing/magnet holder assembly is posted on the other site. The baseplate that I am using is acrylic plastic, 5/8 in thick, 7 3/4 ( in x 8 1/2 in,
with a 1/4-20 threaded hole in the center for the rotor axle, and 13 evenly-spaced 4-40 threaded holes for the stator magnet bearing holders, on a circle of radius 3 3/8 in centered on the axle.
The rotor is 3/4 in thick piece of HDPE plastic, 2 7/8 in radius, with a 0.500 in center hole bored all the way thru for the flanged axle bearings. Magnets are held in 8 evenly-spaced 1/4 in wide slots, 7/16 in deep, inner edge of slots at the 2 1/2 in radius from center.

This is the basic layout for the 13x8 version that I am experimenting with. But I am mostly just using 3 stator magnets and a couple of "dummy" aluminum pieces of the same size as the magnets, also mounted in the same type of bearing holder.

The stator magnets are mounted by a single trimmed 4-40 SHCS and a little washer to make sure only the inner bearing race is contacting the screw or the baseplate.
The rotor magnets are press-fit in place.


For the Stator Magnet Holders the following drawing attached from Alsetalokin again.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: mikestocks2006 on January 05, 2008, 05:21:23 PM
i have ordered the same magnets, might be more expensive but need to replicate. And getting the same ones, hopefully will make that easier, now back to lathe.

Hi Craigy, CLaNZeR, jox and others,
The magnets listed on the PDF (K&J B448-1/4x1/4x1/2 block) do not appear to be the same as the pic above  posted by CLaNZer .

The rotor mags (all eight of them) seem to be cylindrical-rod and with length more than 2x1 cross section., maybe 3 to 1?  (possibly ? dia x ? thick, D4C ?) The builder of the original rig would be able  to confirm.
I hope this helps to get a more accurate replication

Thanks 

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: TheOne on January 05, 2008, 05:36:06 PM
i have ordered the same magnets, might be more expensive but need to replicate. And getting the same ones, hopefully will make that easier, now back to lathe.

Hi Craigy, CLaNZeR, jox and others,
The magnets listed on the PDF (K&J B448-1/4x1/4x1/2 block) do not appear to be the same as the pic above  posted by CLaNZer .

The rotor mags (all eight of them) seem to be cylindrical-rod and with length more than 2x1 cross section., maybe 3 to 1?  (possibly ? dia x ? thick, D4C ?) The builder of the original rig would be able  to confirm.
I hope this helps to get a more accurate replication

Thanks 



I have the same cylinder here and can tell you its the same size at those pic, here the dimension of my magnet: 1" x 3/8" but maybe he use 1" x 1/4 but the size are similar
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Craigy on January 05, 2008, 05:50:19 PM
the pdf is right , i got the magnet codes off of the thread and it was a time consuming business, not cubes , but as clanzer and yourself pointed out
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 05, 2008, 06:04:40 PM
I have gone for a 85mm rotor and think the magnets can be either Rod or rectangle or cubes stacked.

Would you agree with the quick measurments below before I mill this out?

Removed as was WRONG!!!!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: magpower on January 05, 2008, 06:11:53 PM
Your rods look small to me, 10mm long. Looking at video they look like 3/4" long or even 1", maybe I am wrong!

wayne
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: MeggerMan on January 05, 2008, 06:15:09 PM
Hi,
This is a very hot project at the moment, I can see a lot of people will be replicating this.
The 8 rotor magnets look like rod type not slab and by pasteing the image into PSP and knowing the radius I have calculated the size of the rod magnets to be:
0.54" or 13.78mm length
We know the thickness is 0.25" or 6.35mm

Rods are polarised through the length.

Getting the diamagnetic polarised stator magnets is tricky on the UK , so I will need to order these from the US.

The bearings look like model RC racing car bearings, so I guess ebay would be a good source for these.

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: TheOne on January 05, 2008, 06:20:19 PM
CLaNZeR:

Ok I taked a good look about the size, sound like my 22" minoteur in 1600x1200 give me the exact same size from one of the photo

Here some of the dimension:

I was wrong with the rotor magnet

rotor magnet: 3/16" dia. x 1/2" thick (http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D38)
outer magnet: 1/2" od x 3/16" id x 1/4" thick (same as the begining, http://kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=R834DIA)
rotor size: 5 1/2"
frame size: 7 1/2"
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: robbie47 on January 05, 2008, 06:34:11 PM
Deleted
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 05, 2008, 06:35:10 PM
CLaNZeR:
Ok I taked a good look about the size, sound like my 22" minoteur in 1600x1200 give me the exact same size from one of the photo
rotor size: 5 1/2"

The Rotor size I took as being as he quoted by Alsetalokin :

The rotor is 3/4 in thick piece of HDPE plastic, 2 7/8 in radius

I just realised he said RADIUS and not Diameter grrrrrrrrrrrrrr so the Rotor should be

So am I correct in thinnking 2 7/8 =73mm Radius which is 146mm Diameter and hence 5.7 inches?

God my maths are bad hehe
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Jdo300 on January 05, 2008, 06:47:23 PM
Hi Omnibus & Everyone,

Glad to see so many people jumping on this project! Sometime this afternoon/ evening, I'll make some CAD drawings and dimensioned diagrams for the exact specs for the whole thing. I'll also give the exact sizes for the magnets (I can scale the images in CAD and compare to the given dimensions to get the precise sizes). For those who plan on doing any CNC work, let me know what format you prefer and I'll post. I can produce both 2D and 3D models of the thing.

BTW, does anyone have a clear idea of how he had the rotor mounted? I'm still a bit confused by the original description.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: TheOne on January 05, 2008, 08:17:48 PM
Hi Omnibus & Everyone,

Glad to see so many people jumping on this project! Sometime this afternoon/ evening, I'll make some CAD drawings and dimensioned diagrams for the exact specs for the whole thing. I'll also give the exact sizes for the magnets (I can scale the images in CAD and compare to the given dimensions to get the precise sizes). For those who plan on doing any CNC work, let me know what format you prefer and I'll post. I can produce both 2D and 3D models of the thing.

BTW, does anyone have a clear idea of how he had the rotor mounted? I'm still a bit confused by the original description.

God Bless,
Jason O

Sure that can help a lot, its bad for me that my magnet are way to big, I will still try with my magnet, I should use them , they are lying all around doing nothing, they need to do some work now :)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 05, 2008, 08:31:50 PM
Hi @CLaNZeR,

Happy New Year and good luck in this new exploration. Doesn't this remind you of the experiments gaby suggested and you began exploring with interest? I think there's even a thread here on that. Isn't that amazing?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 05, 2008, 08:40:21 PM
Now I think I have the Rotor Correct  ;D

I personally do not think the size matters too much, the effect is the important thing here maybe.
I am going to use 3 * 6.35mm(1/4) cubes stuck together for each Rotor magnet place, as I have these here.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/rotor2.jpg)

@JDO that would be great if you could do some DXF files, that we can then just turn into Gcode for milling :)

@Omnibus, Happy New Year!
This sort of ties in with a combination of the Kiss Motor and Gaby's ideas, weird how these things come together.
This time lets hope someone can replicate it!!

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 05, 2008, 08:46:59 PM
The 8 rotor magnets look like rod type not slab and by pasteing the image into PSP and knowing the radius I have calculated the size of the rod magnets to be:
0.54" or 13.78mm length
We know the thickness is 0.25" or 6.35mm

Hi Rob

13.7mm would be two cube magnets, I have used 3 for the moment, but I suppose the nice thing about using Cube magnets is that we can take or add to change the length to see the difference.

Lets hope the USA are quick with the Stator Magnet deliveries, if they do not run out of stock too quick  ;D

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Jowik on January 05, 2008, 08:47:38 PM
Here's something worth noting and may assist those who are trying to build one.

I built a rig similar to this and I discovered that by using a motor to rotate the magnet stator, I can get it to sustain a spin "gearwise" and "counter-gearwise".  The part that interests me is that any magnet I use will get the rotor to spin in either direction, and a variety of factors affect the speed such as how much of an effect the magnet has on the motor, etc.  No damper, just one rotor and one stator.

Given that I don't have any extra bearings, the next thing I had was a motor to test this out.  The other interesting thing is that this rotor is a POS.  I suspect that someone with a bit of resources and skill can set something similar and replicate.  I anticipate that the least amount of losses from friction, etc this thing may self sustain.  Thought I am not holding my breath... Time will tell.  I hope something good comes of this.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 05, 2008, 09:04:32 PM

BTW, does anyone have a clear idea of how he had the rotor mounted? I'm still a bit confused by the original description.

He is just using flange bearings inserted into the Rotor and a Brass bar inserted in the base.

To cut my friction losses I have gone for top and bottom RC bearings with a Top Cross Bar.
I have also allowed for the Stator magnets to be slid on slots to vary the distance and also curved slots to position the Judson Dampers.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/base1.jpg)

It will probably make more sense when the base has finished cutting out, will post a picture too show what I mean.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 05, 2008, 09:50:45 PM
This is off-topic. Probably we should ask Stefan to merge the two or three threads discussing this topic or maybe some would prefer to have it separated--the technical issues in one thread and the rest in another. What do you think? Too many places discussing this important endeavor and one can miss something substantial.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 05, 2008, 10:21:36 PM
@All,

I'll go even further in my off-topic ramblings. Why not ask Stefan to make it a sticky thread and have a place where we would discuss and agree on what exact parts are to be ordered while waiting for Jason's drawings. Maybe @CLaNZeR as one of the savviest constructors would be willing to make a list of the concrete, say, magnets that are to be ordered to begin with. There still seems to be a bit of confusion about that. Also the bearings and whatever dampers etc. I'm preparing for ordering all this and I'd like to be sure it'll be the right one as much as possible, to avoid delays later.

P.S. I wonder if @tao already knows about this.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Freezer on January 05, 2008, 10:26:35 PM
Weee!   ;D  Another magnet motor setup to work on.  Looks promising, and simple.  I will give this a try and hope you guys good luck.  ;) 
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 05, 2008, 10:56:01 PM
Okay Base all done now:

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/base2.jpg)

Hope this makes sense now regards the top bar and the slots for altering the Stator/dampner positions.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 05, 2008, 10:58:58 PM
@CLaNZeR, you're amazing. Keep on doing the good job, mate.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 05, 2008, 11:01:09 PM
Would NOT say I am one of the Saviest contructors, you know me, I am like a Bull in China Shop LOL.

Regards the Dampners and Magnets, I just email Craigy and check with him  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I think the Stator magnets are pretty obvious and Craigy has supplied the link and the part number, I have ordered these but like everyone else have to wait for delivery from USA :(
The Rotor magnets should not be too bad as the design of the Rotor allows us to move the position and also change the config.

The reason I have gone for the Top bar is after building alot of Rotors, this is the best configuration to reduce your losses, but maybe with this configuration it is not needed as much, but playing safe this end.

Where is the other thread on this subject?

Cheers

Sean.

@All,

I'll go even further in my off-topic ramblings. Why not ask Stefan to make it a sticky thread and have a place where we would discuss and agree on what exact parts are to be ordered while waiting for Jason's drawings. Maybe @CLaNZeR as one of the savviest constructors would be willing to make a list of the concrete, say, magnets that are to be ordered to begin with. There still seems to be a bit of confusion about that. Also the bearings and whatever dampers etc. I'm preparing for ordering all this and I'd like to be sure it'll be the right one as much as possible, to avoid delays later.

P.S. I wonder if @tao already knows about this.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 05, 2008, 11:10:33 PM
Oh Quick Plug from me as well, Selling one of my Desktop CNC Machines, so if anyone is interested in a Bargain check out

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CNC-Desktop-Frame-with-Stepper-Motors_W0QQitemZ200188834727QQihZ010QQcategoryZ12584QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

6 Days to go!!!

Cheers

Sean.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 05, 2008, 11:10:55 PM
@CLaNZeR,

I'd like to check with you again before ordering, just to be sure. Magnets to be ordered are these:

kjmagnetics.com

Part Number: R834DIA
1 Pack of 10
Unit Price: $17.10
Product Total: $17.10
--------------------------
Part Number: B448
1 Pack of 10
Unit Price: $8.20
Product Total: $8.20

Have we all agreed on that? And the amount is one pack of each type (part number), that is 20 altogether, correct?

How about the bearings and the damper? What are they and where are they to be ordered from?

And now, to annoy you completely, what else do you think should be ordered?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: TheOne on January 05, 2008, 11:12:21 PM
Okay Base all done now:

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/base2.jpg)

Hope this makes sense now regards the top bar and the slots for altering the Stator/dampner positions.


Nice, what you are using to cut your plastic like that!

I have a scroll saw and i broked 4 blades just trying to cut my rotor and its still not finished lol

I need help ;)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 05, 2008, 11:21:54 PM
@CLaNZeR,

In the picture you posted here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3871.msg68193.html#msg68193  it appears that the magnets on the rotor are cylinders. The magnets B448 recommended, however, are rectangular. Am I missing something? Sorry if that question has already been answered.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 05, 2008, 11:22:54 PM
kjmagnetics.com

Part Number: R834DIA
1 Pack of 10
Unit Price: $17.10
Product Total: $17.10
--------------------------
Part Number: B448
1 Pack of 10
Unit Price: $8.20
Product Total: $8.20

How about the bearings and the damper? What are they and where are they to be ordered from?


For the Rotor Magnets I have gone for the http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B444 as they are 1/4*1/4*1/4 but worth getting the B448's as well for experimenting I reckon.

The R834DIA pack for the Stators is what I have also ordered.

From what I understand the Dampners are just bits of Ally Bar say 8-10mm that keep the Rotor spinning at 5000 RPM, but it seems a bit of miss or hit where you place them. In the Video it seems there are two place either side of the rear magnet. These basically bring Lenz Law into play and stops the Rotor from getting carried away.

I am going to use 3mm Internal Diameter RC Bearings and lathe down a Brass Axle to fit the Rotor and the Rotor itself.

Hope this helps, not saying it is 100% correct but that is what I am going with after talking to a few people.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 05, 2008, 11:28:16 PM
@CLaNZeR,

In the picture you posted here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3871.msg68193.html#msg68193  it appears that the magnets on the rotor are cylinders. The magnets B448 recommended, however, are rectangular. Am I missing something? Sorry if that question has already been answered.

Alsetalokin used Rod magnets but the designer OC thinks block magnets would be better, so for now going for blocks, but the design of the rotor will allow Rod magnets to be placed easy enough if we find blocks not working.

As I said before I do not think the exact sizes really have to be spot on, but it is more the effect that is the key.

Should be an exciting couple of weeks  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 05, 2008, 11:30:11 PM
Quote from: TheOne
Nice, what you are using to cut your plastic like that!

I have a scroll saw and i broked 4 blades just trying to cut my rotor and its still not finished lol

I need help ;)

Sorry mate, no quick fix when it comes to hard labour.
I cheat LOL, I have a small Desktop CNC machine that does all the hard work for me.


Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Jdo300 on January 05, 2008, 11:30:48 PM
Hello All,

Still working on the CAD drawings for the motor. I ran into a small discrepancy in the given dimensions so I thought I would pass this along to you all. Alsetalokin mentions that the radius of the rotor disk is 2.875 inches with 0.25" slots for the magnets. He then goes on to say that the inner edge of the slot is 2.5" away from the center of the disk. However, after drawing this up in AutoCAD, I noticed that the distance from the outer edge of the slot to the edge of the disk appeared to be 1/8" smaller than what seems to be shown in photos of the actual device. So I increased the radius of the disk by 1/8" to 3" and now the CAD drawing seems to fit nicely with the photo when overlaid onto it (See attached images). Can someone who has contact with Alsetalokin pass this information along to confirm what I am seeing here? I don't mean to be too nit picky about the specs but I don't want to take any chances with the distances between the magnets.

Thanks,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 05, 2008, 11:47:54 PM
Jason, I don't think you're nitpicking at all. Replication should be done exactly as @alsetalonkin's device. That's why I don't think also we should use rectangular magnets but should use the exact cylindrical magnets @alsetalonkin uses. What are they? I second @Jdo300 in asking someone to verify these issues with the actual constructor (not with someone who gave the idea). 
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: TheOne on January 05, 2008, 11:51:09 PM
Quote from: TheOne
Nice, what you are using to cut your plastic like that!

I have a scroll saw and i broked 4 blades just trying to cut my rotor and its still not finished lol

I need help ;)

Sorry mate, no quick fix when it comes to hard labour.
I cheat LOL, I have a small Desktop CNC machine that does all the hard work for me.




Ah, I guess one of my next project will be to do a CNC machine http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Three-Axis-CNC-Machine-Cheaply-and-/

:)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Craigy on January 06, 2008, 04:10:23 AM
hi guys ,

don?t want to put anyone off , but the acceleration puzzled me, so contacted a phd for his take on the matter, now i still think something is going on , whereas my phd friend now after some thought does not..still can?t agree all the time can we..

I think i know why it accelerates

Think about the effect that ice skaters use to make a fast spin - they start spinning as fast as they can and then fold their arms in - by conservation of angular momentum they then rotate much faster since the net moment of inertia has been reduced just by pulling in their arms. I think this gadget could be doing the same thing - stopping the outside magnets greatly reduces the moment of inertia and so the main rotor has to speed up in consequence in order to still have the same angular momentum.

Hence the question, what happens if you don't stop the outside magnets?


Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Mr.Entropy on January 06, 2008, 06:35:22 AM
I think i know why it accelerates

Think about the effect that ice skaters use to make a fast spin - [...]

To do that you actually have to move rotating stuff from the outside of the rotor to the inside, and that's not happening here.

The angular momentum in the stator magents that are stopped is transferred to the earth via the fingers that stop them.  To get it into the rotor, you would have to transfer it to the rotor via a force.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: robbie47 on January 06, 2008, 10:11:56 AM
I think the driving force is only provided by the one stator magnet that is forced clockwise.
The other 2 (rotating counter clockwise) are 'dragged' by the rotor. This consumes energy. When you stop those 2, less energy loss is occurring.
That is why the rotor is accelerating in my view.

The acceleration at the startup of the motor seems to occur to achieve a balanced state that relates to the mass and the magnet forces of the rotating rotor and the stator(s). This can be simply confirmed by putting more load to the rotor.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: gaby de wilde on January 06, 2008, 12:45:09 PM
hahaha

but I had already made this (click on the image for the doc) It even explains why the device needs a speed governor to kick start it.

RESONANT MAGNETOMECHANICS
(http://magnetmotor.googlepages.com/resonance-to-slow.gif) (http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/resonance/text/)

to slow
(http://magnetmotor.googlepages.com/resonance-slow.gif) (http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/resonance/text/)

to fast
(http://magnetmotor.googlepages.com/resonance-to-fast.gif) (http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/resonance/text/)

within resonance
(http://magnetmotor.googlepages.com/resonance-match.gif) (http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/resonance/text/[/url)

A bit like xpenzif in his last posts before he made that video.

Yeah. You're right. Your device is flawless. You solved the elusive alternative fuel source. You saved the world. Good work gaby de wilde. Build it so we can all benefit. ::)
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3305.0.html

HAHAHAHAHA

Maybe everything in my journal is for real? o dear?

http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/text

Back on topic....

Don't say? I haven't explained it well enough again? Illustrations and a doc, I knwo I know ...it's not good enough. I must explain it at least 100 times.

Here is nr 3, hold you head!

We take 2 magnets. A and B

We attach a weight to A.

In the first test we drop A so that the attraction from B intercepts the drop.

We repeat the test dropping A from increasing height.

Eventually A moves to fast for B to grasp it out of the sky.

We will call this "above critical speed". There where B is capable of interception the speed of A is "below critical speed".

Below crit. -> attraction overcomes kinetic energy

Above crit. -> attraction does not overcome kinetic energy

Now here it becomes tricky boys and girls.

Before deceleration A is first accelerated by B So, the speed of A can be slightly below crit. and accelerate above it during the interaction.

Nothing weird happens.

Now we attach a rope and a weight to magnet B and throw it over a beam so that we can drop it upwards. Here things get weird!

Apparently, accelerating magnet A from just below crit to just above it costs more energy as to accelerate both magnet A and magnet B from just below 1/2 crit. to just above.

If energy is preserved *grin* it seems like we should be getting 2 times as much acceleration at half the speed for our kinetic investment.

This will of course cut off some of the acceleration time. If it moves faster it will cover more distance in less  time, it's what "faster" means. : - )

The joke is that any improvement in acceleration will also cut the departure time.

Speed was already above crit. Faster departure will increase the gap proportionally.

The magnets on the device in the video are not moving linear. The 180 degree turn is like the magnet disappears for 200%.

Moving over this course the duration of the approach & departure interaction is much smaller than having one linearly.

It may enhance the fast departure effect I dunno, it does however generate a lot of interactions really really quickly.

When the resonant speed is approached the governor magnets are no longer necessary.

Tell me where you get vague.

lol
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: bourne on January 06, 2008, 04:11:45 PM
hahaha

but I had already made this

Have you produced a video?

I would love to see it.


Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 06, 2008, 04:25:24 PM
Hi, gaby, very interesting indeed. Probably you've seen that I mentioned you and @CLaNZeR in the Steorn forum immediately after I found out couple of days ago what's going on. I was in Massachusetts before that for about a month and a half not paying attention to the net because had some other things to do. In the meantime the developments have been fabulous due to a serendipitous error made by @alsetalonkin when trying to develop these ideas in a working device. Turns out, by his own admission, had I not stirred him up (he uses a different word) the other day we wouldn't have known eve about these developments because it was only due to me, believe it or not, that he posted his now famous video. Ridiculous isn't it. So, the rigid self-appointed skeptic (although obviously science isn't his forte, for which I judge from former discussions with him) suddenly provides one of the most important evidence in this field. I can't get over it. Now it appears he regrets dearly showing that video. But the the gene is out of the bottle already.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: acp on January 06, 2008, 04:34:39 PM
Hi, gaby, very interesting indeed. Probably you've seen that I mentioned you and @CLaNZeR in the Steorn forum immediately after I found out couple of days ago what's going on. I was in Massachusetts before that for about a month and a half not paying attention to the net because had some other things to do. In the meantime the developments have been fabulous due to a serendipitous error made by @alsetalonkin when trying to develop these ideas in a working device. Turns out, by his own admission, had I not stirred him up (he uses a different word) the other day we wouldn't have known eve about these developments because it was only due to me, believe it or not, that he posted his now famous video. Ridiculous isn't it. So, the rigid self-appointed skeptic (although obviously science isn't his forte, for which I judge from former discussions with him) suddenly provides one of the most important evidence in this field. I can't get over it. Now it appears he regrets dearly showing that video. But the the gene is out of the bottle already.

Really, you just don't know when to stop do you?

Omnibus, you should, to use your own overused phrase  "Stop cluttering the thread" with such drivel as the above......
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: DA on January 06, 2008, 04:36:37 PM
I really hope the ones replicating this device are successful, I'm sure something like this is going to work eventually.

But I'm a little confused.  The video posted by Yirkha clearly states that it is "No over-unity, no infinite long runs, so don't jump into conclusions".  Leads me to believe this is not a magent motor, but just a device to test the effect of the small rotating magnets.

Could it be that there is a small internal motor driving the wheel?  At least then the video makes sense.

Small motor cannot intitiate or maintain spin, but when the rear small magnet is spun clockwise it can maintain the spin.  RPM is limited by the drag of the other two small magnets, when they are stopped the RPM increases, which clearly shows these two magnets are a drag when spinning.

Question:  What happens when the back magnet is also stopped?  Does it speed up further or slow down?  Why was this not shown? 

To me, all the video shows is that when the back magnet is spinning clockwise instead of counter clockwise, there is less drag.  I like the honesty, in that the creators of this video have not claimed that this is a working motor.

Are you people building this device expecting it to run on it's own, or are you just investigating the forces involved?

I'm impressed by the quality of construction shown and am looking forward to the results.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 06, 2008, 04:48:55 PM
@acp,

Quite the contrary. you  are the one who doesn't know his place and should stop stopping others. Don't continue or you'll hear harsher words.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 06, 2008, 05:02:21 PM
@DA,

It doesn?t matter what someone says. What?s important is what the video shows. And what the video shows is just amazing, nothing short of another experimental proof for overunity. Also, it isn?t true that the creator of this video claims it isn?t a working motor. Quite the contrary, @alsetalonkin, claims it?s indeed a working motor and all we see has come up by a sheer accident when he spun it the wrong way after making whatever changes he wasn?t intending to make. This motor he says has worked for whole 3 hours without external energy input. So it isn?t true that all the video shows is that when the back magnet is spinning clockwise instead of counter clockwise, there is less drag. Now replicating efforts are on the way and when this mandatory step is finished successfully we can congratulate ourselves with yet another proof that CoE can be violated.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: acp on January 06, 2008, 05:41:19 PM
@acp,

Quite the contrary. you  are the one who doesn't know his place and should stop stopping others. Don't continue or you'll hear harsher words.

Well, you're the one who drove alsetalonkin away from the stoern website. Thankfully he is posting again after your banning from the steorn forum.....
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: robbie47 on January 06, 2008, 05:41:32 PM
This motor he says has worked for whole 3 hours without external energy input.

Where can this information be verified?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: acp on January 06, 2008, 05:42:29 PM
On the Steorn forum....
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 06, 2008, 05:42:43 PM
Okay update from me.

First thing is I do not get involved in bickering or disputes, I am here to replicate and have some fun, so please try and keep the thread on course as such  ;D

Right first thing now the base was finished was to get the RC 3mm Internal Diameter Bearings fitted and the lathe down a Brass shaft.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/oc1.jpg)

As you can see the height is 30mm and the Brass shaft fits perfect.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/oc2.jpg)

Here is the finished Rotor by the way!

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/oc3.jpg)

Next is to Press Fit the Brass Shaft into the Rotor, I used a Drill Press stand to achieve this.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/oc4.jpg)

Finally Pop the Rotor into the bearings and screw it up.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/oc5.jpg)

Really please with this Rig as really loose using the 3mm RC bearings.

Now I have just got to wait for the magnets to arrive. I have some 1/4 *1/4 *1/4 Cubes knocking around but not enough, so have ordered some of these as well.

That's my progress report so far, more when the magnets arrive :)

Have also now updated my site over at http://www.overunity.org.uk

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 06, 2008, 05:49:03 PM
@Low-Q,

This is an incorrect analysis
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: TheOne on January 06, 2008, 05:54:07 PM
Okay update from me.

First thing is I do not get involved in bickering or disputes, I am here to replicate and have some fun, so please try and keep the thread on course as such  ;D

Right first thing now the base was finished was to get the RC 3mm Internal Diameter Bearings fitted and the lathe down a Brass shaft.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/oc1.jpg)

As you can see the height is 30mm and the Brass shaft fits perfect.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/oc2.jpg)

Here is the finished Rotor by the way!

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/oc3.jpg)

Next is to Press Fit the Brass Shaft into the Rotor, I used a Drill Press stand to achieve this.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/oc4.jpg)

Finally Pop the Rotor into the bearings and screw it up.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/oc5.jpg)

Really please with this Rig as really loose using the 3mm RC bearings.

Now I have just got to wait for the magnets to arrive. I have some 1/4 *1/4 *1/4 Cubes knocking around but not enough, so have ordered some of these as well.

That's my progress report so far, more when the magnets arrive :)

Have also now updated my site over at http://www.overunity.org.uk

Cheers

Sean.

Nice job! I want a CNC Machine now!! :)

Mine is coming along, quite less complicated then your and quite not precise lol, my rotor is not perfect.... anyway

Hopefully I will able to show my motor running today with my existing magnet (bigger then the one suggested and the stator magnet using sphere magnet)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: naklaw on January 06, 2008, 06:43:00 PM
I had to build one too :)

Some images attached, and a video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7040941048043834176&hl=en

Well, please advice me on how it is supposed to work ;)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: naklaw on January 06, 2008, 07:06:49 PM
In the youtube-movie he mentions "magno kinetic judson dampers", what is that supposed to mean ?

Why does he have 3 rotating magnets to begin with since the motor obviously runs better with only one ?

Tomorrow i will buy a smaller bearing so I can move the rotating magnet closer to the rotor.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: FunkyJive on January 06, 2008, 07:37:46 PM
What a fantastic thought-provoking thread, and a brilliant invention - irrespective of what it may prove or disprove.

I would be very interested to know if degaussing takes place after a period of operation. I've read that the unit will slow after some hours (presumably eventually stopping), and also read that after stopping the unit can be re-started again in the conventional manner. Some have suggested the possibility of core saturation, requiring a period of relaxation, though with no energy required for any such change to take place then would not detract from the very interesting questions this device throws up.

If there's any notable source of energy to explain the rotation of this motor then it must  surely be contained within the flux of the magnets. In other words, a sort of reversal of the means by which the magnets are created in the first place - i.e. enclosure by an energising coil with a high-capacity discharge through the coil to induce a polarising field to the magnet. For myself, clarification on this point alone would establish whether this motor is arguably exhibiting Over-Unity as far as we might appreciate, and absolutely right that experimenters here remain cautious and thoroughly objective before making any such claims of attaining the "holy grail". This is one aspect that inspired me to sign up to this forum  :)

Now if  this were the case, how could this be allowed  to violate modern scientific understanding and the "Laws of Physics" that suggest that energy can neither be created   or destroyed? I can't help but ponder the possible shift in the time element as potentially the missing component that might one day prove to be the missing link to the Power = Rate of Change  in respect of energy conversion - considered in real-time.

A simple hypothesis to time and relativity is to imagine staring at a large clock, say... on the town-hall wall, with the second hand ticking by. All people staring at the clock would appreciate the seconds ticking by at the same rate - in other words everyone is sharing the same time-space. The ticking of the big clock would also be in synchronicity with the watch on your wrist as much as any other watch.

Now, hop in your imaginary rocket ship and accelerate away from the clock, eventually attaining the speed of light. You look down at the watch on your wrist and.. yup... it's still ticking away at one second intervals just as before, BUT gazing back at that big clock on the wall (through your imaginary super-high strength binoculars that correct for doppler shift   :D) reveals that everyone and everything is stood still, and the big clock is no longer ticking. Why? Because you are travelling at the speed of light away from the clock you are in a different time-space, as the image light that you see reflected from the big clock cannot catch up with you and overtake. Nevertheless, all those observing the big clock on the ground continue to move around and observe the passing of time exactly as before, even though to you they look stationary. In other words, they are in a different time space.

Now, should you decelerate your ship to half of the speed of light, then by the same token the big clock on the town-hall wall would appear to be ticking at half-pace, and therein lies the linear relationship of speed of light and time-space.

Without thinking any deeper at this stage (little point for this discussion if OU proves to be unattainable), but might relative time domain and deflection of rotating magnetic fields (which are themselves appreciable as a moving-mass) prove to be the missing ingredient to conventional energy-related equations?

Just maybe, ...I guess  :-\


Best wishes - particularly to all the pioneering experimenters here,

FunkyJive
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: TheOne on January 06, 2008, 07:41:04 PM
Ok here my first pic, its only the rotor

I use 6 magnets since they are too big so I cannot put 8 magnets on a small wheel like that. I also use a skater bearing.

More later...

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: skymovingcloud on January 06, 2008, 08:06:10 PM
Hi all, I'm a newbie on the site, joined up because of this thread, very interesting indeed. My background is in mathematics and software engineering. My take on this is to try and model it with software, but my physics is rusty and not to degree level. So my question is, is anyone else on here aware of others that have tried/started/succeeded in modelling this or something similar? I'm sure it's a massive challenge and probably way out of my league, but ya gotta try. Any links, ideas or references to material would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: FunkyJive on January 06, 2008, 08:12:51 PM
Hi Skymovingcloud.

Like yourself I'm a newbie here myself, though as your standard of mathematics is good then I'll see if I can encourage my maths-orientated friend and colleague (educated to lecturing standard) to join up and chip in. At-least he may be able to throw in a few algorithms for your to work on, amongst many others here I'm sure.

Tweak factors set aside, good modelling software would doubtless save hours of experimentation to optimise  ;)

All the best,

Funkyjive
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: amigo on January 06, 2008, 08:20:36 PM
Hi all, I'm a newbie on the site, joined up because of this thread, very interesting indeed. My background is in mathematics and software engineering. My take on this is to try and model it with software, but my physics is rusty and not to degree level. So my question is, is anyone else on here aware of others that have tried/started/succeeded in modelling this or something similar? I'm sure it's a massive challenge and probably way out of my league, but ya gotta try. Any links, ideas or references to material would be appreciated.

Funny you say this because past week or so I have been contemplating about a software system that could do physical simulations of magnetic and dynamic interactions between objects. An idea might be to use an existing rigid body dynamics engine (for example ODE, being Open Source) and retrofit it with a magnetic simulation component so that magnets could be added as various bodies in the simulation.

Then I thought, heck there are already 3D applications that contain rigid body dynamics engines built in (for example 3ds max uses Havok and I'm familiar with 3ds max) so why build something from scratch when these applications already provide a real 3D environment to model objects and give them rigid body properties. A (big) task would be the write a plug-in that would simulate magnets and their interactions with other objects. Ideally a simulation with visualization of magnetic lines would be an ultimate goal here.

Of course this is all theoretical for now since I neither have the time nor adequate knowledge to undertake either of the tasks...
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Dyamios on January 06, 2008, 08:21:02 PM
@skymovingcloud

This is one of the bigger (if not most promising) developments that I've seen here in the past year or so, with the exception of mike's motor which was never successfully replicated.

Seeing as how this motor was just recently disclosed, it will take some time for replications and reports from third parties to become available.

If and when more success reports are disclosed, only then should we put a considerable amount of effort into modeling and discovering what actually causes this apparent physical anomaly. Until then, we can only speculate. After all, it could indeed all be a hoax.

-------------------------------------

Asides from that, does anyone really know how the maker(s) of this motor believe it works, or what their basic premise is based upon?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: skymovingcloud on January 06, 2008, 08:32:22 PM
Hi Skymovingcloud.

Like yourself I'm a newbie here myself, though as your standard of mathematics is good then I'll see if I can encourage my maths-orientated friend and colleague (educated to lecturing standard) to join up and chip in. At-least he may be able to throw in a few algorithms for your to work on, amongst many others here I'm sure.

Tweak factors set aside, good modelling software would doubtless save hours of experimentation to optimise  ;)

All the best,

Funkyjive

Hi Funkyjive,
sounds great.

Best of luck to the constructors too, looking forward to seeing the results.

Cheers,

Sky
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: sterlinga on January 06, 2008, 08:40:39 PM
Way to go on the replication work!  I've begun a compilation here:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:OC_MPMM_Magnet_Motor#Replications (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:OC_MPMM_Magnet_Motor#Replications)

Let me know as soon as one of you gets one running so we can feature it in our news and stir the excitement even more.

Sterling
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 06, 2008, 09:09:21 PM
@Naklaw and @TheOne
Excellent work guys, well done and keep it coming.

@sterlinga , gawd knows where you get the time too keep that site updated, but good on you and a valuable resource!

I now have too wait for my magnets, but as not being very patient I decided to strip down the Kiss Motor and use the magnets as the N-N-S-S combination is the same. Have added 1 big Block magnet from Gaby's project on a bearing for playing (Talk about recylcling!) and very interesting the effect at around 350RPM when spinning the Rotor forward and the Stator the opposite way, it seems too cog and flip the Stator, but trying to get the Tacho too catch it is a nightmare.. Will knock up a couple more Stator Blocks and see what it goes like. I do not expect alot but something too play with while waiting for correct magnets to arrive.

ummm I knew those holes I drilled to mark the center of each side would come in handy ;D


(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/oc6.jpg)

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: znel on January 06, 2008, 09:23:06 PM
  Hello all, I'm a newby here although I've visited a few times in the past.  I must say some of the engineering work being done is quite impressive.  I tend to think out of the box most of the time, although, it's good to take a couple trips back in the box once in a while to regain perspective. 

 
znel... 
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: yorkshireminer on January 06, 2008, 09:43:46 PM
This seems to me to be similar to the Searl motor, in the Searl motor we have rotating cylindrical magnets rotating around a central stationary  circular magnetic plate. Here they have done the opposite made the cylindrical rotating magnets stationary and rotated the central circular magnetic plate, is this not equivalent when there are not absolute terms of reference? I have also noted that the number of magnets for the rotor is 8 and for the stator 13. These are Fibonacci numbers, is there a relationship? Just a couple of points to ponder
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: naklaw on January 06, 2008, 09:45:26 PM
In case you are interested in a demonstration of how the magnets are magnetically coupled:

Turning the rotor:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9028377735804824913&hl=en

Turning the spinning magnet:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2082838356310248955&hl=en

I am still very sceptical :)

I tried reversing the spinning magnet but I can't find any resonance, I even tried to speed it up in reverse direction with a DC motor...

If you convince me I will build a larger more stable one :)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Dansway on January 06, 2008, 09:51:53 PM
I understand everyone's excitement and the rush to build something with what-is-at-hand, but we NEED to use the "SAME" magnets and geometry as the original device!

Then convince yourself of it working or not.

Dan

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 06, 2008, 09:56:00 PM

I am still very sceptical :)

I tried reversing the spinning magnet but I can't find any resonance, I even tried to speed it up in reverse direction with a DC motor...

If you convince me I will build a larger more stable one :)

In the original Video from AL he has 3 stator magnets.
2 at the front are left alone to spin and be influenced by the Rotor.
What he then does is spin the Stator at the back the opposite direction, the stator keeps moving the same way as do the two front stator magnets. When the back Stator has sync'd with the Rotor it seems to hold a steady RPM and then by releasing the breaking effect of the two front stator magnets, the Rotor accelerates to over twice the speed.

It is good to be sceptical, but at the same time too try and copy how he achieves the effect.
At the moment you just have 1 stator. If you spin your rotor you seeing it turns the first stator, now spin the rotor and spin your stator the same direction, see the difference it has? Now add a couple more and play :)

On your Rotor do you have the Magnets SS-NN-SS-NN etc etc

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: TheOne on January 06, 2008, 10:00:15 PM
Ok my replication is not working well, my problem is my rotor use 6 magnets and this completely change the interaction between the 8 vs 13 original wheel. 6 vs 13 is not working

I will wait to see what will append with our friends with better replication.

Unless I know the amount of holes needed for the stator magnets with a 6 magnets rotor.

Also the sphere is working but they are vibrating to much in the tube I use and 3 of them is to much, to much noise.. and its hard to move the rotor in my configuration.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: TheOne on January 06, 2008, 10:02:54 PM
I found another version of the video with no dark spot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7fh2RP_uEs&NR=1

He increased the brigthness of the original video
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: rburley on January 06, 2008, 10:06:53 PM
Hi can some one give me the web site of a suppler of magnets this is in the UK
All the Best Roger
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: TheOne on January 06, 2008, 10:09:54 PM
With this new video version I posted in my previous post

in the video at aprox 0:38 he show this (circle in the image)
he tell its 2 magneto kinetic Jetson damper?

What is that!!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: naklaw on January 06, 2008, 10:13:35 PM
In the original Video from AL he has 3 stator magnets.
2 at the front are left alone to spin and be influenced by the Rotor.
What he then does is spin the Stator at the back the opposite direction, the stator keeps moving the same way as do the two front stator magnets. When the back Stator has sync'd with the Rotor it seems to hold a steady RPM and then by releasing the breaking effect of the two front stator magnets, the Rotor accelerates to over twice the speed.

It is good to be sceptical, but at the same time too try and copy how he achieves the effect.
At the moment you just have 1 stator. If you spin your rotor you seeing it turns the first stator, now spin the rotor and spin your stator the same direction, see the difference it has? Now add a couple more and play :)

On your Rotor do you have the Magnets SS-NN-SS-NN etc etc

I will buy smaller bearings tomorrow. As can be seen on my pictures, the board has place for three stators, I will try this with the smaller bearings.

Yes, they are mounted SS-NN-SS-NN etc

My stators will be separated by 120 degrees... I don't know any of the parameters/dimensions of the original device :(

Should the stators have a larger inertial mass? My current stator has only a few grams of mass.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: naklaw on January 06, 2008, 10:16:09 PM
With this new video version I posted in my previous post

in the video at aprox 0:38 he show this (circle in the image)
he tell its 2 magneto kinetic Jetson damper?

What is that!!

"The variant in the video uses the magnokinetic Judson dampers to achieve the same effect of retarding the stator magnet at the critical instant"

"the magneto kinetic Judson Dampers keep the stator magnet at 5000 RPM"
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: TheOne on January 06, 2008, 10:21:11 PM
With this new video version I posted in my previous post

in the video at aprox 0:38 he show this (circle in the image)
he tell its 2 magneto kinetic Jetson damper?

What is that!!

"The variant in the video uses the magnokinetic Judson dampers to achieve the same effect of retarding the stator magnet at the critical instant"

"the magneto kinetic Judson Dampers keep the stator magnet at 5000 RPM"

To achieve the same effect like the 2 stators he stop at the middle of the video?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: tbest on January 06, 2008, 10:21:45 PM
Quote from: TheOne

What is that!!

Rogowski coil?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 06, 2008, 10:30:42 PM
Quote from: tbest
Rogowski coil?

LOL

Think you will find they are just Ally bars.

If you notice in the video when spinning the two front Stator Rollers they will make the Rotor spin. The Back Stator Roller does not because of these two bars effecting the magnetic field.

I understand the theory of using it as a restrictor at high end speeds, but my question is whether the dampners are needed for the overall effect.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Groundloop on January 06, 2008, 10:33:53 PM
[EDIT] Deleted.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: vipond50 on January 06, 2008, 10:37:13 PM
Howdy Folks
Well all the parts are on order i.e. bearings, mags, etc. Is or has anyone worked up a set of Cad dwg's for this project?
Feel this would be the way to go so all replicators follow the orginal design. Seeing alot of varients, which could be
good, not following the design.
Just need Al to verfiy that the Dwg's are correct.
Who up to the challange?
Comments

Bill
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 06, 2008, 10:41:08 PM
AL just posted his reply to my question over at the Steorn Forums, great too see someone stick around after releasing a Video for a change, good on him and I feel sorry for the hassle he has been getting :(

********************

@Clanzer: let's see--the position of the rotor when starting the mmanual movement of the stators determines how the rotor behaves with a give stator input. If I swivel one of the stators to just the right angle and hold it against the springy field, then rock it back and forth about 15 degrees, and the rotor is in the right phase, I can keep the rotor rotating continuously at about 1 rps or 60 rpm. If the rotor isn't in the right phase or I don't rock at the right instant (same thing) the rotor stops or reverses direction.
So the fact that it didn't rotate for one magnet at the beginning of that hasty video isn't significant, I don't think.
As I have indicated before there is variance in how the individual magnet/bearing pairs behave. The "middle magnet" in the running rig is the smoothest bearing out of the 13 that I have. I can't tell any variation among the magnets by the means at hand (viewing film, guesstimations of pull strength, etc.) but there does seem to be something "sweet" about the one I ended up using.

I think the dampers are working by keeping the bearing wobble down, and by providing a gentle drag force that disappears when the parts are moving slowly. Eddy, Lenz, and all those things.

Without the dampers the unit seems to speed up to instability, the stator chatters and drops out, and the rotor coasts to a stop.

And one more time: 6061-T6 extruded aluminum bar stock, machined to the exact dimensions of the stator magnets (except I really did use a 3/16 hole, the magnets are a bit bigger here), spaced and oriented by trial and error, and in my unit, the pre-drilled holes for the stator magnets seemed close enough to the sweet positions so I just used them.

*************
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: MeggerMan on January 06, 2008, 10:53:11 PM
Hi Clanzer,
Beautiful build, that should prove to be very adjustable.
It looks very precise and accurate.
I look forward to see your results and I hope to get started on my own build in the next couple of weeks.
I think Al is looking at ways of spinning the stators without getting blisters and also more reliably.
We could do with him coming over to this forum too.
I did suggest using 12v brushless fan motors to drive the stators up to speed.
They are very compact (1" type) but may need connected via a short shaft to avoid magnetic inerference.

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: robbie47 on January 06, 2008, 10:55:54 PM
If you notice in the video when spinning the two front Stator Rollers they will make the Rotor spin. The Back Stator Roller does not because of these two bars effecting the magnetic field.

I understand the theory of using it as a restrictor at high end speeds, but my question is whether the dampners are needed for the overall effect.

If the restrictors only affect high speed rotation then I can not understand why slowly rotating the top stator magnet is not effecting the rotation of the rotor.
Perhaps you can make a small drawing what exacly you have in mind?

B.t.w. Ally bars = aluminum bars?

(sorry, but as many other readers I am not a native speaking American or English man)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 06, 2008, 10:58:45 PM
I think Al is looking at ways of spinning the stators without getting blisters and also more reliably.
We could do with him coming over to this forum too.
I did suggest using 12v brushless fan motors to drive the stators up to speed.
They are very compact (1" type) but may need connected via a short shaft to avoid magnetic inerference.

Hi Rob

Thx for the compliments.

I do not think AL will come over here as he seems stressed out enough as it is :(

I think a controlled start is an important key and can be done in a number of ways. But first as usual we need to prove this effect to ourselves and once there, start thinking of ways to use control to make it easier.

pcstru4 has done some really nice images of AL's rig and got the thumbs up as being accurate:

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/pc1.jpg)

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/pc2.jpg)

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/pc3.jpg)


Cheers

Sean.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 06, 2008, 11:04:58 PM
Quote from: robbie47
If the restrictors only affect high speed rotation then I can not understand why slowly rotating the top stator magnet is not effecting the rotation of the rotor.
Perhaps you can make a small drawing what exacly you have in mind?

B.t.w. Ally bars = aluminum bars?

(sorry, but as many other readers I am not a native speaking American or English man)

Hi Robbie

Sorry, Ally = Aluminium yes, my bad English  ;D

In my previous post the reply from AL seems to dismiss that the aluminium dampners effect the Rotor at slow speeds compared to the other two Stators that do not have the dampners either side.
I am still not sure about this and will only trully know when my replication is complete.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: robbie47 on January 06, 2008, 11:04:59 PM
One asks for a small drawing and you get this as response.

AWESOME!!

Thanks CLaNZeR
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: robbie47 on January 06, 2008, 11:05:52 PM
Deleted
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: pablo escobar on January 06, 2008, 11:54:22 PM
In the original Video from AL he has 3 stator magnets.
2 at the front are left alone to spin and be influenced by the Rotor.
What he then does is spin the Stator at the back the opposite direction, the stator keeps moving the same way as do the two front stator magnets. When the back Stator has sync'd with the Rotor it seems to hold a steady RPM and then by releasing the breaking effect of the two front stator magnets, the Rotor accelerates to over twice the speed.

It is good to be sceptical, but at the same time too try and copy how he achieves the effect.
At the moment you just have 1 stator. If you spin your rotor you seeing it turns the first stator, now spin the rotor and spin your stator the same direction, see the difference it has? Now add a couple more and play :)

On your Rotor do you have the Magnets SS-NN-SS-NN etc etc

I will buy smaller bearings tomorrow. As can be seen on my pictures, the board has place for three stators, I will try this with the smaller bearings.

Yes, they are mounted SS-NN-SS-NN etc

My stators will be separated by 120 degrees... I don't know any of the parameters/dimensions of the original device :(

Should the stators have a larger inertial mass? My current stator has only a few grams of mass.
I believe that the stators are NOT equidistant apart.  The original design was to be 13 stators I believe.  AL is using a stator - 3 stator - 4 stator -3 configuration.  The Judsen regulators are around the 4 stator magnet.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 06, 2008, 11:56:31 PM
@Dansway and @vipond50,

I can?t agree more. The replication should follow the original design as much as possible. So far, @CLaNZeR is doing a fantastic job except maybe for the rotor magnets which have to be cylindrical, as in the original. I'm still waiting for Jdo300's drawings and the magnets and then I'll try to kick in too.



@skymovingcloud,

While I agree with @Dyamios that at this point the important is this to be replicated by third parties it won?t hurt to ask you whether you?re familiar with the finite element and the finite boundary method. These are variational methods in which the space to be analyzed is divided by an appropriate mesh and a variational problem is solved in each triangle of that mesh.


@yorkshireman,

Indeed, that?s the Searl motor as far as I can tell. This looked to me more like the Lego motor, the Grandpaw?s motor and another one with moon and planets. The last too have the planets and the moon mechanically locked, though. So far I thought, the closest appears to be the Lego motor but, yes, this one is more like a replica of the Searl?s motor. @gaby de wilde and @ClaNZeR were working recently on a similar idea too. The thing is, I don?t think Searl has ever had it replicated by a third party. Correct me if I?m wrong.

P.S. Oh, it resembles also the motor by @itseung888, forgot to mention. The closeness to Searl's seems the greatest, though.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: skymovingcloud on January 07, 2008, 12:13:12 AM

@skymovingcloud,

While I agree with @Dyamios that at this point the important is this to be replicated by third parties it won?t hurt to ask you whether you?re familiar with the finite element and the finite boundary method. These are variational methods in which the space to be analyzed is divided by an appropriate mesh and a variational problem is solved in each triangle of that mesh.


@Omnibus, I'm not yet, but now's the time to do some learning. Even if I'm not up to the job, I hope to get the ball rolling on the theoretical side, and I do agree that the device needs to be replicated before serious effort is applied. thanks
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 07, 2008, 12:34:11 AM
Quote from: naklaw
I tried reversing the spinning magnet but I can't find any resonance, I even tried to speed it up in reverse direction with a DC motor...


Naklaw

You got a answer from AL over on this thread mate

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60132&page=7

Must admit it is nice to see someone sticking around after posting a video and even better that he is interacting and answering peoples questions.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: FunkyJive on January 07, 2008, 12:46:54 AM
Hi Yorkshireminer.

A very interesting observation of yours - the 8 and 13 forming part of the Fibonacci sequence.

However, I would personally doubt that this has a specific bearing in this case (though I could be quite wrong of-course), particularly as the wheel will rotate with only one cylindrical magnet with many more than two bar magnets required.

However, I do think that 13 cylinders could be a significant number - namely that it is a prime number. This would at-least ensure that with any number of bar magnets less than thirteen, you would minimise the probability of a stable state as the optima of attraction and repulsion would effectively rotate around the spinning wheel - always at a different speed to its rotational velocity with no common denominator to their ratios.

All the best,

Funkyjive.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: noncents on January 07, 2008, 01:12:31 AM
Hey Funky,
I'm pretty sure I read that the originator of the device, overconfident, used the Fibronacci series as part of the inspiration for the original concept.
This implementation is a small part of the original design, the full thing used 13 stators.
edit: Actually here's the very original concept and it's 5 stators and 13 rotor magnets. There are various concepts here, all are fibronacci inspired though, I believe.
Not sure how to do the url embed here yet, sorry if this doesn't work.
http://freeenergytrackers.ning.com/photo/photo/show?id=1638621%3APhoto%3A2146
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: FunkyJive on January 07, 2008, 01:22:22 AM
Cheers Noncents.

I'll freely admit that it's purely armchair speculation on my part, until I can build something and do a few tests myself  :-[   Such a great thread though, and thought-provoking too, without the usual playground arguments that seem to dog so many forums. I'm not easily led to believe, though my mind remains open to the possibility of something special going on here.

Regrettably I'm tied up in EMP levitation and propulsion stuff, though perfectly happy to learn the rules from the valuable contributions of so many capable engineers and constructors before I can launch myself at this. I do have quite a few N50+ bar Neo's to hand so might try something a little unconventional. It'll probably never work though  ;D

All the best,

Funkyjive.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: sterlinga on January 07, 2008, 01:26:18 AM
I posted pcstru4's drawings here:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:OC_MPMM_Magnet_Motor#Drawings (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:OC_MPMM_Magnet_Motor#Drawings)

That's really nice looking work.

If any of you know of a clear presentation of the materials used and assembly instructions, let me know so I can feature that on the PESWiki page as well.

For now, under "Instructions", I'm linking to http://api.ning.com/files/7vd*I4uYJz0a8SWp*rIv4OT6MWD8EAqTvCmrBNYq1Kg_/OCmotor.pdf (http://api.ning.com/files/7vd*I4uYJz0a8SWp*rIv4OT6MWD8EAqTvCmrBNYq1Kg_/OCmotor.pdf)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Craigy on January 07, 2008, 01:54:16 AM
the aluminium dampers are using lenz law effects, to stabalise and control the spining stator, for what its worth their braking effect will be inverse square, or in other words will increase with the square of the speed. Just something i thought i would mention.

Nice work clanzer, i thought this would light your fire lol..
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: FunkyJive on January 07, 2008, 02:06:52 AM
Hi Craigy.

Could we therefore use Lenz law to good effect by replacing the dampers with inductive loop(s) - to both stabilise motion whilst simultaneously generating an EMF to drive a load?

All the best,

Funkyjive
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 07, 2008, 02:55:39 AM
@Funkyjive,

Your speculation based on Lorentz transformations (not on special relativity?special relativity cannot derive the Lorentz transformations your speculation is based on) is untenable. In this experiment the observation is carried out in the stationary system where both lengths and time are proper. I won?t go here in further explanations as to why also the speculations for time-dilation you are inferring, resulting from the Lorentz transformations, are also non-physical.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: DA on January 07, 2008, 03:18:04 AM
@Omnibus response to Funkyjive

"Your speculation based on Lorentz transformations (not on special relativity?special relativity cannot derive the Lorentz transformations your speculation is based on) is untenable. In this experiment the observation is carried out in the stationary system where both lengths and time are proper. I won?t go here in further explanations as to why also the speculations for time-dilation you are inferring, resulting from the Lorentz transformations, are also non-physical. "

God, you are indeed briliant, Omnibus!  I never would have thought of that!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: FunkyJive on January 07, 2008, 03:35:55 AM
Hi Omnibus.

Thanks for your interest, though I was only looking at the Lorentz effect in realtime - given that any damping effect appears to be merely lossy in this application.

In my previous post I was separately speculating upon whether shifts in the time domain could potentially explain OU - if indeed such were proven possible.

Nevertheless, I guess that we all have to open ourselves up to criticism in speculating on the possible cause and effects that we currently know little about. As long as it remains contributory however then I'm all for that  ;)

Funkyjive.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 07, 2008, 03:48:41 AM
@Funkyjive,

I don't mean to stop you from speculating and thinking about these matters the way @alsetalonkin is trying to stop everybody else but himself from thinking on the theoretical issues concerning this (as I said before, on top of that I've found out he's not quite versed in the subtleties of science, unfortunately). When there are flaws, however, in these speculations (no one's thinking is perfect, including mine, of course) these flaws should be pointed out sooner to avoid spending additional time on futile pursuits. As for the principle of conservation of energy (CoE), it has already been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, through a rigorous analysis of an experiment, that CoE can be violated and energy can be produced out of nothing (the term for that in this forum is 'overunity'--thus, 'overunity' is already a scientifically proven phenomenon).
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: rotorhead on January 07, 2008, 03:58:35 AM
@Funkyjive,

I don't mean to stop you from speculating and thinking about these matters the way @alsetalonkin is trying to stop everybody else but himself from thinking on the theoretical issues concerning this
Yes Omnibus. That's why he provided information about all the materials and dimensions and testing techniques so everyone could reproduce and test it themselves.
 (as I said before, on top of that I've found out he's not quite versed in the subtleties of science, unfortunately).
And that's why he was the only engineer that saw any promise in an original idea that nobody else would even look at for over 2 months.
 When there are flaws, however, in these speculations (no one's thinking is perfect, including mine, of course)
No shit!
 these flaws should be pointed out sooner to avoid spending additional time on futile pursuits. As for the principle of conservation of energy (CoE), it has already been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, through a rigorous analysis of an experiment, that CoE can be violated and energy can be produced out of nothing (the term for that in this forum is 'overunity'--thus, 'overunity' is already a scientifically proven phenomenon).
And, as always, every forum topic always degenerates into SMOT.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Jdo300 on January 07, 2008, 04:10:06 AM
Hi Everybody,

I can see that there is quite a buzz going on here concerning Al's device! I have finished the 3D CAD model and am currently making some dimensioned drawings for those of us who don't have AutoCAD or a CNC machine laying around. For those of us who do, I will be posting the CAD files as I said before.

I am still waiting to get confirmation about the diameter of the rotor disk. I saw the other 3D renderings that were posted and they look nice but if you take a look at the slots in the rotor disk, they look the same as the drawing that I labeled incorrect. I'm just about ready to post the drawings but I need to know which image is correct. (for those of you wondering what I'm referring to, here's a link to my post earlier in this thread):

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3871.msg68313.html#msg68313

The sooner I can get this straightened out, the sooner I can post the information.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 07, 2008, 04:10:58 AM
@rotorhead,

This is not a deterioration of the discussion.On the contrary. The analysis I'm referring to is the first scientifically sound analysis proving violation of CoE.It has to be reminded every time when the word is about machines such as this one because the understanding which is vigorously pushed, including by someone who isn't so versed scientifically, such as @alsetalonkin, is that CoE absolutely cannot be violated. It can. That's the basic premise from which every further discussion should follow.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: rotorhead on January 07, 2008, 04:23:58 AM
@rotorhead,

This is not a deterioration of the discussion.On the contrary. The analysis I'm referring to is the first scientifically sound analysis proving violation of CoE.It has to be reminded every time when the word is about machines such as this one because the understanding which is vigorously pushed, including by someone who isn't so versed scientifically, such as @alsetalonkin, is that CoE absolutely cannot be violated. It can. That's the basic premise from which every further discussion should follow.
And that's the same premise that every scientist you have ever known goes by as well?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 07, 2008, 04:35:13 AM
@rotorhead,

That must be the same premise every true scientist must go by.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: rotorhead on January 07, 2008, 04:40:53 AM
@rotorhead,

That must be the same premise every true scientist must go by.
So how many true scientists are there? Name some.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 07, 2008, 04:58:07 AM
@rotorhead,

I cannot engage in offering any names. As is usual in science every scientist is personally responsible for his own stance. What I said above is enough.
Title: BM Files
Post by: sterlinga on January 07, 2008, 05:49:44 AM
http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory/MagneticMotors/OC_MPMM/BW (http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory/MagneticMotors/OC_MPMM/BW) - "Contains most of the information relating to the magnetic motor designed by OC and constructed by [Nikolabackwards]. In the text doc 'Judson' you will find the dimensions of the rotor and base plate, ect. I believe you have some of this information already, but some is missing. I am also going to work up a set of AutoCad Drawings based on this file so my replication will be as close to the original as possible." (Paraphrase; Jan. 6, 2008)
Title: Some photos Al deleted from the ning group
Post by: kevin on January 07, 2008, 06:50:10 AM
I don't know what Al's logic is with releasing information and then deleting it, but here are some of the photos he deleted from the ning group. I recovered them from my browser cache. Maybe someone has a complete set.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: vipond50 on January 07, 2008, 07:03:34 AM
Group
Take note that the Rotor mags are Round Cylindrical not Square. See "sense jpg" that Kevin put up
B.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: RunningBare on January 07, 2008, 07:45:09 AM
Group
Take note that the Rotor mags are Round Cylindrical not Square. See "sense jpg" that Kevin put up
B.

Yes, replicate replicate

But I do not believe it will make much difference wether the magnets are cylindrical or square bar, its the pole orientation that matters.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Dansway on January 07, 2008, 08:07:47 AM
Just posted:

Al took everything down from here:
http://freeenergytrackers.ning.com/profile/AlSetalokin

Quote on Steorn's forum:

    *
      Comment Authoralsetalokin
    * CommentTime1 minute ago

 permalink
Mary, those are all very good ideas. Why, I even thought of some of them myself. And thank you for the introduction to computer video. Why, when I was programming the IBM 360-44 at Trinity University in the early 70's, we had nothing like that at all. Amazing, isn't it?
If I believed it was worth the effort on my part, I would be doing some of them right now. But it isn't worth it, not for me, not right now, I don't have the physical health or the mental stamina to be able to withstand what I'm going through right now. I've just taken down the whole ning site in order to avoid getting into another Omnibus to nowhere with some poster called Kevin, who has copied a few of my pictures from his browser cache (an IE user no doubt, I'm surprised he could find them) and reposted them and started a snotty thread sniping at me.
So what, as aber0der says, he's just bits and pixels to me, so so what...
So what indeed.

Anyway, there isn't any point to investing so much time and effort and hype in a mechanical curiosity that just spins around for a while. You might as well buy some Steorn shares!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: oak on January 07, 2008, 08:20:27 AM
@rotorhead,

This is not a deterioration of the discussion.On the contrary. The analysis I'm referring to is the first scientifically sound analysis proving violation of CoE.It has to be reminded every time when the word is about machines such as this one because the understanding which is vigorously pushed, including by someone who isn't so versed scientifically, such as @alsetalonkin, is that CoE absolutely cannot be violated. It can. That's the basic premise from which every further discussion should follow.

Omnibus, as you know, it was just this sort of comment that resulted in your banishment from the Steorn forum last night.

In the first place, alsetalokin is far better of a scientist than you will ever hope to be.  It's really easy to disparage a person who's not in your presence as "someone who isn't so versed scientifically," isn't it.  How churlish.  And the only reason you say it is that is he won't agree with your never-ending claim that a non-looped SMOT shows violation of CoE.

Why can't you stop badgering people with that claim?  Whether it's true or not, trying to cram it down everyone's throat is not helping your argument, because nobody can accept it.  You are like a lawyer who tries to persuade a jury they should find in your favor, because if they don't they're a bunch of stupid a-holes.  It just won't work.  It doesn't matter whether CoE is violated, either by SMOT, by alsetalokin's device, or by anything else.  If it is violated by alsetalokin's device, we'll know soon enough when it's replicated.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: SedZen on January 07, 2008, 08:23:27 AM
So I am guessing that the eventual rotation failure is caused by the stator. If that is the case maybe creating a mechanism that would alternate active stators would resolve the failure problem?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 07, 2008, 08:39:08 AM
@oak,

I already explained for the umptieth time here in this thread why I?m emphasizing so much and will undoubtedly continue to emphasize at every occasion the importance of the analysis in question. The fact that someone, not very versed in the subtleties of science, as I?ve found out some time ago, doesn?t like it won?t do any good with me. I am on my terms on scientific matters not on his. The person in question, who undoubtedly is a very good technician whom I?ll cite in every paper I write in the future (should this be independently confirmed to be real) as the first to have shown a device continuously producing excess energy and which is an engineering development of the device producing excess energy discontinuously which I have already analyzed and definitively proven to violate CoE, has to be advised to be at least consistent in his actions. Thus, he doesn?t miss an occasion to prevent everyone from discussing the theoretical basis of what he?s done only to shove down the throats of everybody his personal ?theoretical? view that this cannot by any means be violation of CoE (he'll selectively tolerate "theoretical" opinions only of those who go along with his personal take on these matters). This behavior will not only not prevent me but will make me even more determined in presenting the analysis at every appropriate occasion, as I already explained. As for the ?banishment?, I?m hearing it from you because I already made a statement in the Steorn forum that I will not contribute in that forum for a while and when I made that statement there was no ?banishment? or whatever you call it.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: oak on January 07, 2008, 08:51:51 AM
@oak,

I already explained for the umptieth time here in this thread why I?m emphasizing so much and will undoubtedly continue to emphasize at every occasion the importance of the analysis in question. The fact that someone, not very versed in the subtleties of science, as I?ve found out some time ago, doesn?t like it won?t do any good with me. I am on my terms on scientific matters not on his. The person in question, who undoubtedly is a very good technician whom I?ll cite in every paper I write in the future (should this be independently confirmed to be real) as the first to have shown a device continuously producing excess energy and which is an engineering development of the device producing excess energy discontinuously which I have already analyzed and definitively proven to violate CoE, has to be advised to be at least consistent in his actions. Thus, he doesn?t miss an occasion to prevent everyone from discussing the theoretical basis of what he?s done only to shove down the throats of everybody his personal ?theoretical? view that this cannot by any means be violation of CoE (he'll selectively tolerate "theoretical" opinions only of those who go along with his personal take on these matters). This behavior will not only not prevent me but will make me even more determined in presenting the analysis at every appropriate occasion, as I already explained. As for the ?banishment?, I?m hearing it from you because I already made a statement in the Steorn forum that I will not contribute in that forum for a while and when I made that statement there was no ?banishment? or whatever you call it.
You, sir, are a liar.  You know you were banned.  You did not say you would not contribute in the Steorn forum, you only said you would not comment in his THREAD, after he got sufficiently angry at your bullying that he left.

So what, anyway, what alsetalokin thinks about where the energy is coming from.  He's doing good work.  There are no "appropriate occasions" for you to keep badgering people about what YOU think.  If people aren't convinced of a CoE violation after successful replications are achieved, argue with them then.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 07, 2008, 08:58:55 AM
@oak,

The exchange with you on this topic is closed. You'd do better not to annoy further with extraneous trifles the participants in this thread focusing on reproducing the machine.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: robbie47 on January 07, 2008, 10:42:21 AM
Assuming that the top stator magnet is taking part in the driving force, I wonder what will happen when one also spins any other stator magnets clockwise. Would that add driving force even more if it succeeds in synchronizing the rotor as well?

I'll try to place such request for experiments to alsetalokinon at the Steorn forum, but I am still on hold for placing comments in this thread, unfortunately
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 07, 2008, 11:17:41 AM
@robbie47,

Why not do the experiment yourself instead of placing requests for experiments? This may allow you to get answers to many other questions as well.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: robbie47 on January 07, 2008, 11:24:39 AM
@robbie47,

Why not do the experiment yourself instead of placing requests for experiments? This may allow you to get answers to many other questions as well.

I am working on it already.
Are you as well? I haven't seen much practical material from your side.

Anyway, I am only sharing my thoughts in parallel. That's not forbidden here.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: ebswift on January 07, 2008, 11:31:52 AM
The omnibus plague spreads far.  The cure isn't always readily available.  The mods here are obviously oblivious to the affliction at this point.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 07, 2008, 11:31:53 AM
@robbie47,

Looking forward to see what you'll come up with. Good luck. And, who says it's forbidden to share your thoughts in parallel? This isn't Steorn forum.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: ebswift on January 07, 2008, 11:40:57 AM
Omnibus is simply waiting for the first simple replication info so he can write a paper and claim expert knowledge and hindsight as to how this was going to be constructed.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: RunningBare on January 07, 2008, 11:48:41 AM
Omnibus is simply waiting for the first simple replication info so he can write a paper and claim expert knowledge and hindsight as to how this was going to be constructed.

It does not matter, the first successful replication of this will have the internet buzzing and omnibus will just be background noise.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 07, 2008, 11:52:23 AM
@ebswift,

Of course not. The credit, as I've said many times, will go entirely to @alsetalonkin. This is an exceptional engineering achievement of his (if independently confirmed to be real) with an enormous psychological significance for the already proved violation of CoE to be accepted. People who have successfully replicated it should also be mentioned if someone is to write something on the topic.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 07, 2008, 11:54:51 AM
@RunningBare,

No one doubts that you and several known others would want that to be the case. Why waste bandwidth to say it? Wishful thinking is what it's called.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: RunningBare on January 07, 2008, 11:56:27 AM
@ebswift,

Of course not. The credit, as I've said many times, will go entirely to @alsetalonkin. This is an exceptional engineering achievement of his (if independently confirmed to be real) with an enormous psychological significance for the already proved violation of CoE to be accepted. People who have successfully replicated it should also be mentioned if someone is to write something on the topic.

Errr, dont you mean "overconfident" and alsetalokin, lets remember where the concept originated from please!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 07, 2008, 12:02:53 PM
@RunningBare,

No, not at all. I mean only @alsetalonkin. Concept is well known, as was said before.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: ebswift on January 07, 2008, 12:07:13 PM
@ebswift,

Of course not. The credit, as I've said many times, will go entirely to @alsetalonkin. This is an exceptional engineering achievement of his (if independently confirmed to be real) with an enormous psychological significance for the already proved violation of CoE to be accepted. People who have successfully replicated it should also be mentioned if someone is to write something on the topic.
Replication is vindication, innovation is commendable, possessiveness of a fellow man's work is deplorable, and people will recognise this as clearly as you clearly don't.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 07, 2008, 12:12:36 PM
@ebswift,

Replication by independent parties is crucial in scientific matters such as this one. Without such independent replication it is non-existent for science. Therefore, the contribution of those who would have successfully replicated it is on par with the original contribution.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: ebswift on January 07, 2008, 12:26:43 PM
@ebswift,

Replication by independent parties is crucial in scientific matters such as this one. Without such independent replication it is non-existent for science. Therefore, the contribution of those who would have successfully replicated it is on par with the original contribution.
The indication of your intentions from that comment would be that you intend to share the glory alongside the discoverers.  Bad enough that you ackowledge only the builder (and partial discoverer of an [important] anomaly) and not the person who instigated the whole investigation by their very own ideas.  Very arrogant and typical of you Omnibus.  Shame.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 07, 2008, 12:32:28 PM
@ebswift,

Don't worry who shares what. This speaks bad for you.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 07, 2008, 12:35:11 PM
Shame these were not bigger:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Neodymium-MAGNETS-Od6-x-Id3-x-6nm-DIAMETRIC-TUBE-Qty15_W0QQitemZ130166178999QQihZ003QQcategoryZ147829QQcmdZViewItem

Anyone had Joy in sourcing any Diametrically magnetised tubes in the UK?

Cheers

Sean.
 

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: SwinG on January 07, 2008, 12:47:14 PM
Try this compan in Germany: http://www.monstermagnete.de/

You can get all the magnets custom made, if you order enough, and have the time to wait a few weeks.
They also have some reasonable sizes in stock.

SwinG
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 07, 2008, 12:49:42 PM
@CLaNZeR,

I'll be ordering today the magnets we all agreed upon form K&J and they'll probably arrive sometime by the end of the week. I'd like to send them to you ASAP. I wonder if there wouldn't be someone you know who will be traveling to London from NYC or Boston these days who could help bringing them to you. Trying to help somehow, mate. I'll order two sets--one for you and one for me. Will be talking to a friend who owns a machine shop today so hopefully I could catch up (hopefully Jason finds the right dimension in the meantime).
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Rosphere on January 07, 2008, 12:57:04 PM
Shame these were not bigger:..

Anyone had Joy in sourcing any Diametrically magnetised tubes in the UK?
All, FYI:
(http://www.kjmagnetics.com/images/diametrically.jpg)

(http://www.kjmagnetics.com/images/axially.jpg)
All rings below are diametrically magnetized:
(Sorry, not sure about UK availability.)

(http://www.kjmagnetics.com/prodimages/RX04X0DIAL.jpg)
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RX04X0DIA (http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RX04X0DIA)

(http://www.kjmagnetics.com/prodimages/RC4CDIAL.jpg)
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RC4CDIA (http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RC4CDIA)

(http://www.kjmagnetics.com/prodimages/R834DIAL.jpg)
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=R834DIA (http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=R834DIA)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 07, 2008, 01:00:09 PM
@Rosphere,

If I'm not mistaken, the ones we need to order are R834DIA.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 07, 2008, 01:01:02 PM
Omnibus

Many thanks for your kind offer, but I have already placed the order and paid International shipping which is more expensive than the actual magnets hehe

Hopefully if the company is not too swamped with orders after this weekend, then they should be here by the end of the week.
I have had small packages arrive from the USA within 2 days before.

I have asked AL to confirm the dimensions and given a link to http://www.overunity.org.uk/jdo.html as I do not think he visits these forums.

Cheers

Sean.

@CLaNZeR,

I'll be ordering today the magnets we all agreed upon form K&J and they'll probably arrive sometime by the end of the week. I'd like to send them to you ASAP. I wonder if there wouldn't be someone you know who will be traveling to London from NYC or Boston these days who could help bringing them to you. Trying to help somehow, mate. I'll order two sets--one for you and one for me. Will be talking to a friend who owns a machine shop today so hopefully I could catch up (hopefully Jason finds the right dimension in the meantime).
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: RunningBare on January 07, 2008, 01:01:16 PM
Shame these were not bigger:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Neodymium-MAGNETS-Od6-x-Id3-x-6nm-DIAMETRIC-TUBE-Qty15_W0QQitemZ130166178999QQihZ003QQcategoryZ147829QQcmdZViewItem

Anyone had Joy in sourcing any Diametrically magnetised tubes in the UK?

Cheers

Sean.
 



Do not ask me how to mount them, but these are diametrically polarized, perhaps someone can figure it out.
http://www.singingmagnets.com/
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 07, 2008, 01:06:20 PM
Try this compan in Germany: http://www.monstermagnete.de/

Hi Swing

Thx for the link.

They do a few Diametrically magnetised Rings as well, just not the size we need :(

I like the Epoxy covered ones http://www.monstermagnete.de/catalog/index.php?cPath=109

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 07, 2008, 01:08:11 PM
Quote from: RunningBare
Do not ask me how to mount them, but these are diametrically polarized, perhaps someone can figure it out.
http://www.singingmagnets.com/

LOL I got some of these from my kids last Xmas.

Ummm I wonder hehe  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 07, 2008, 01:09:42 PM
@All,

We never found out what exact part number is of the 8 cylindrical rotor magnets, correct?
Oh, and the bearings, the non-ferromagnetic bearings. Where are we to get them from?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 07, 2008, 01:15:23 PM
@All,

We never found out what exact part number is of the 8 cylindrical rotor magnets, correct?
Oh, and the bearings, the non-ferromagnetic bearings. Where are we to get them from?

I think AL did not order in the Rod magnets and just used what he lying around. OC's original plans show block magnets.

Ceramic bearings are expensive I bought a couple last year from a online skate shop, they were really loose but after I span them up over 10'000 RPM they were useless :(

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 07, 2008, 01:20:16 PM
@CLaNZeR,

Do you know what are the bearing in his machine, I didn't catch that? As for the rotor magnets--do you at least know their dimensions? I'll order the rectangular for now but I think we have to be as close to the original as possible.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: SwinG on January 07, 2008, 01:29:25 PM
Hi Swing

Thx for the link.

They do a few Diametrically magnetised Rings as well, just not the size we need :(

I like the Epoxy covered ones http://www.monstermagnete.de/catalog/index.php?cPath=109

Cheers

Sean.

I have ordered these:
http://www.monstermagnete.de/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=788
http://www.monstermagnete.de/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=106
http://www.monstermagnete.de/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=779
http://www.monstermagnete.de/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=800

That should give me something to play with  ;D

They make custom also.
http://www.monstermagnete.de/catalog/index.php?editorial=8
You just have to wait for the production, and there is a minimum order of ~50.

Yes, the black epoxy looks great.

SwinG
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 07, 2008, 01:49:43 PM
Is that bearing good enough: http://www.raidentech.com/11h04-08.html
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 07, 2008, 01:59:03 PM
Is that bearing good enough: http://www.raidentech.com/11h04-08.html

It does not really give a spec on that link.

The ones I have used are MF63ZZ 3X6X2.5 from http://www.technobots.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Miniature_Flanged_Ball_Bearings_385.html

But I am doing it different too the way AL has monted his Rotor.

If I find the Top bar is a hinderance then I will probably mount the bearings in the Rotor and use a shaft poking up from the base as AL did.
I will mount the Stator bearings using the 3mm Flange bearings also but they will be on shafts.

Worth doing a search for flanged miniature bearings as over in the states you are going to be spoilt for choice I reckon.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 07, 2008, 03:07:54 PM
Hi Everybody,

I can see that there is quite a buzz going on here concerning Al's device! I have finished the 3D CAD model and am currently making some dimensioned drawings for those of us who don't have AutoCAD or a CNC machine laying around. For those of us who do, I will be posting the CAD files as I said before.

I am still waiting to get confirmation about the diameter of the rotor disk. I saw the other 3D renderings that were posted and they look nice but if you take a look at the slots in the rotor disk, they look the same as the drawing that I labeled incorrect. I'm just about ready to post the drawings but I need to know which image is correct. (for those of you wondering what I'm referring to, here's a link to my post earlier in this thread):

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3871.msg68313.html#msg68313

The sooner I can get this straightened out, the sooner I can post the information.

God Bless,
Jason O

Hi Jason,

I found this from a quote of Al, in the Peswiki .txt file named Judson.

"That's good, because I just invented them yesterday.

Magnokinetic because that's what they are damping;
dampers because that's what they do; Judson, because,
well, somebody I used to know went to high school there.

A dimensioned sketch of the bearing/magnet holder assembly is posted on the other site. The baseplate that I am using is acrylic plastic, 5/8 in thick, 7 3/4 in x 8 1/2 in,
with a 1/4-20 threaded hole in the center for the rotor axle, and 13 evenly-spaced 4-40 threaded holes for the stator magnet bearing holders, on a circle of radius 3 3/8 in centered on the axle.
The rotor is 3/4 in thick piece of HDPE plastic, 2 7/8 in radius, with a 0.500 in center hole bored all the way thru for the flanged axle bearings. Magnets are held in 8 evenly-spaced 1/4 in wide slots, 7/16 in deep, inner edge of slots at the 2 1/2 in radius from center.

This is the basic layout for the 13x8 version that I am experimenting with. But I am mostly just using 3 stator magnets and a couple of "dummy" aluminum pieces of the same size as the magnets, also mounted in the same type of bearing holder.

The stator magnets are mounted by a single trimmed 4-40 SHCS and a little washer to make sure only the inner bearing race is contacting the screw or the baseplate.
The rotor magnets are press-fit in place."

I hope that helps you to finish the CAD drawings.

God Bless,


Bruce
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 07, 2008, 04:09:40 PM
AL's reply to regards jdo's question:

***********

My practice on prototyping is to whittle and gnaw on things first, big non-critical dimensions may be only approximate, then when I am forced to draw or otherwise document things, I " rationalize" these dimensions.
So if the rotor blank comes out 4.878 or something weird like that once I've got it faced and trued, that's fine for prototyping, but I am most likely to rationalize that non-critical dimension and make it 5.000 on the drawing or documentation.
You follow?
Sorry if that throws anyone off. I am aware that you folks are doing photogrammetry over there, believe me it isn't necessary.

Here's an actual set of measurements made right now:
Material HDPE
rotor diameter 144 mm
rotor thickness 18 mm
distance from OUTER EDGE of rotor, on a radius, to INNER EDGE of magnet slots 13 mm
slots are symmetrically arrayed, 1/4 " nominal width, 12 mm depth
slots cut in a single pass with a 2-fluted end mill 0.250"

I hope that helps.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Jdo300 on January 07, 2008, 05:54:14 PM
Hi CLaNZeR,

Thanks! That clears that issue up now.

Now, there is still one thing I don't have information about and that is the metal plug in the center that he mounted the 3.5mm bearings in for the rotor. As I understand it, he just used a screw with press-fitted flange bearings in an earlier model. I am interested in knowing if that would be sufficient for it to work or if the added stability from the machined bearing plug is necessary. If so, I would like to get more information on it to include in the blueprints. At the moment, I just have a 1/4"/ 20 bolt for a shaft in the 3D model with the press-fitted bearings.

Could you also pass this along to him?

@Omnibus & Everyone,

I noticed some have questions about the rotor magnets. If you look at the overlaid drawing I posted of the rotor disk, you can see that it is a cylinder magnet that is 1/4" in diameter and just slightly longer that 0.5". My best guess is that it is 9/16" long from the image. The nearest size that KJ Magnetics carries is part number D48. I also recall that Al mentioned on the forum that the magnets were about 0.5" long.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 07, 2008, 08:12:57 PM
Quote from: Jdo300
Now, there is still one thing I don't have information about and that is the metal plug in the center that he mounted the 3.5mm bearings in for the rotor. As I understand it, he just used a screw with press-fitted flange bearings in an earlier model. I am interested in knowing if that would be sufficient for it to work or if the added stability from the machined bearing plug is necessary. If so, I would like to get more information on it to include in the blueprints. At the moment, I just have a 1/4"/ 20 bolt for a shaft in the 3D model with the press-fitted bearings.

Could you also pass this along to him?

Hi Jason

I think this has remained the same but not 100% sure.

If truthfull as well, he has probably covered this in one of the 1000+ posts across different threads over at the Steorn Forums and I think the repeated questions are wearing himself and OC down. So I do not want to personaly hassle him anymore.

At the end of the day a simple shaft mounted in the base should do and cannot see it being a major issue as long as the design creates the least friction and movement.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Some photos Al deleted from the ning group
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 07, 2008, 08:18:29 PM
I don't know what Al's logic is with releasing information and then deleting it, but here are some of the photos he deleted from the ning group. I recovered them from my browser cache. Maybe someone has a complete set.

Thanks for that Kevin

Especially this one as it shows the Dampners perfectly :)

(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3871.0;attach=16283;image)

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Jdo300 on January 07, 2008, 08:23:55 PM
@ CLaNZaR,

Yeah, good point. I'll just go with what we have now. I will have the blueprints completed this evening to post online.

@ Kevin,

I had all the photos from his website except for that one too. Thanks! I'll add the dampers to my 3D model as well. I am out right now but will post some images of the model when I get home, and the drawings + CAD Docs later tonight.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: LarryC on January 07, 2008, 11:24:26 PM
All,

Stainless steel bearings are non-ferromagnetic and relatively cheap compared to ceramic.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: DA on January 07, 2008, 11:50:03 PM
Having non ferro magnetic bearings is a very good idea.  Having non "conducting" bearings is much better.  If you pass a magnetic field through a conductor, the magnetic field tries to move the electrons through the condutor, this is how generators work.

So, if you have a conductor in the magnetic fields you are whirling around, the fields will move the electrons within the conductor, and cause drag.  Not just with iron, but copper, aluminum or any conductor.  This drag can be small, but perhaps this drag is one of the things that keeps many promising designs from working.  Perhaps.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 08, 2008, 12:04:46 AM
@CLaNZeR,

Just to let you know. K&J are nowhere to be found today. Extended vacation, I guess. Hope it won't affect the delivery of your magnets.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: crash_uni8 on January 08, 2008, 01:54:43 AM
well this a very interesting video....
lets see....

i noticed that the back stator magnet has less effect on main wheel than the 2 close stator magnets when he spins them in his video.
this could be a slight design flaw...but it might be important!

working with magnets you find that even a 3mm difference in distance with such small magnets equals a lot more or less magnetic force.

the aluminum bars also seem to have some effect on the magnetic flux patterns and not so much a braking effect.
maybe this is part of the key to solving the sticky spot situations with other designs.......

besides the poor lighting and not a full view of this...
it's either the best fake in a while or the real thing...don't get your hope up yet.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 08, 2008, 04:20:34 AM
well this a very interesting video....
lets see....

i noticed that the back stator magnet has less effect on main wheel than the 2 close stator magnets when he spins them in his video.
this could be a slight design flaw...but it might be important!

working with magnets you find that even a 3mm difference in distance with such small magnets equals a lot more or less magnetic force.

the aluminum bars also seem to have some effect on the magnetic flux patterns and not so much a braking effect.
maybe this is part of the key to solving the sticky spot situations with other designs.......

besides the poor lighting and not a full view of this...
it's either the best fake in a while or the real thing...don't get your hope up yet.

@ Crash

I made the same observation and mentioned it today to JDO300 (Jason)  He thought that the reason for less effect of the back stator, when Al was turning each one by hand, could be the effect of the dampners on both sides of that stator.  I agree.  If the distance to the rotor and the back stator is identical as the other two stators, and the magnet is identical on the back stator, which it is, then Jason's conclusion seems reasonable. 

I believe that Al stated that the dampers were added later to slow the RPM's,  (What a great problem to have to overcome!! ) so it is not needed to run..

Lastly, if you read all of the posts, it is an incredible story with a great ending, which is really a new beginning.  IMHO.  Very soon, and Jason will have a detailed set of replication cad drawings, and we can go to town on this project.  I am slowing my other projects (not quitting them!  ;) ), just for this, because of the importance of replication, etc.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: rotorhead on January 08, 2008, 04:39:43 AM
Is everyone waiting for magnets?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Jdo300 on January 08, 2008, 06:25:26 AM
Hi Everyone,

OK, I FINALLY finished the 3D model with all the bells and whistles. I modified the rotor disk dimensions to fit the measurements given by Al. I am now working on drawing up some dimensioned drawings from the 3D model and will be posting those soon. In the mean time, here are a few photos of the model I made.

By the way, I also ordered some magnets from K&J Magnetics today so I'm in as well  :).

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: robbie47 on January 08, 2008, 09:14:28 AM
I noticed that the back stator magnet has less effect on main wheel than the 2 close stator magnets when he spins them in his video.
this could be a slight design flaw...but it might be important!

Have a look at the marvelous 3D pictures of Jason.
As you can see there are 8 rotor magnet and 13 stator magnet positions.
It could well be that the top stator magnet of the video is not moving as fast as the lower 2 because of its position w.r.t. the stator magnet at this particular rotor position. So asymmetry could also contribute to be the reason.
Intreging stuff those dampers, I must admit.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: hartiberlin on January 08, 2008, 09:49:17 AM
Hi All,
a  I am on vacation and have only slow PDA access and can not see the video, please can somebody post a few screenshots of the video  as Jpeg pics less than 30 Kbytes ?
Where is that damper located and are these magnets in the rotor slits and can they move there ?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 08, 2008, 10:24:54 AM
Hi Stefan,

The rotor magnets are fixed while the three stator magnets rotate. Roughly, what he does is after  several attempts he manages to synchronize the rotor with one of the stators (the starting procedure isn't still clear to me--he says it's a result of a mistake he made; I think @CLaNZeR understands it better than anyone at this point as far as I can tell) which causes the rotor suddenly to accelerate spontaneously from several hundred to over one thousand rpms. The interesting things don't end here, however. At a certain moment he stops by hand two of the three rotating stator magnets and the rpms increase even further to about four to five thousand rpms. He says he has seen it run in this manner, without external energy supply, for  three hours after which is stops for hitherto unknown reason. The video ends abruptly after several minutes of spinning because, he says, his camera got out of memory. At first I dismissed it out of hand because it isn't a self-starter but then I saw the above and that really caught my interest. This is similar to the Lego motor idea but the Lego appears to be a self-starter (and of course no details about the Lego are known so that we can replicate it). It was pointed out earlier and I agree that this is in fact Searl motor idea. It is in this instance, however, openly demonstrated for others to reproduce it. Sorry can't post stills right now but they won't tell much. You've got to see the video. Jason's rendition is excellent and you can get the idea about the construction. The dampers at this point seem to be of secondary importance and are just additions to stabilize the spin at high rpms with not much of a role at low rpms. This is very briefly the situation the way I've understood it so far.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Lakes on January 08, 2008, 11:47:13 AM
Hi Jason

What CAD software are you using please?

Great work!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: ebswift on January 08, 2008, 12:16:37 PM
Hi Jason, very nice drawing.  Regardless of any pre-existing images, going from the top image of yours and comparing to the video, it looks like the stator on the lower-right needs to go up one notch.  Both non-dampened stators should be located in the centre of two of the rotor magnets whilst the dampened stator should be exactly in-between two of the rotor magnets.  The dampened stator would then be exactly in-between the other two stators with a count (inclusive) of three rotor magnets to each non-dampened stator from the dampened stator.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: plasmasd on January 08, 2008, 01:26:40 PM
Oops I didn't notice that when I went off Jdo300 model and created my own. Oh well, easily fixable.

I just did a simple fly around animation sketchup for people on youtube that might want to see what it looks like from different angles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lei5_IPtLXU
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 08, 2008, 01:51:14 PM
Thanks to Oak for some extra pictures.

This one may help abit Jason regards the Axle:

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/al10.jpg)

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: robbie47 on January 08, 2008, 01:56:45 PM
Both non-dampened stators should be located in the centre of two of the rotor magnets whilst the dampened stator should be exactly in-between two of the rotor magnets.  The dampened stator would then be exactly in-between the other two stators with a count (inclusive) of three rotor magnets to each non-dampened stator from the dampened stator.

That should be investigated further since Al mentioned following on that at the Steorn forum:

I haven't used the Dremel in a long time, not since the positioning trials for the magnokinetic Judson dampers.

Having in mind that he originally used this setup with 13 stator magnets with the intended holes already in there, Al has obviously tweaked around more on different positions of his dampers.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 08, 2008, 01:58:55 PM
Is everyone waiting for magnets?

Just started making the Stator holders this end, but waiting for the magnets :(

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 08, 2008, 02:14:47 PM
Quote from: robbie47
I haven't used the Dremel in a long time, not since the positioning trials for the magnokinetic Judson dampers

A while a go I built a Dremel Rig too spin up Rotors as below.
Now I use an air compressor, less noise and much safer  ;D ;D
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/DremelRig.jpg)

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: sterlinga on January 08, 2008, 05:33:14 PM
http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory/MagneticMotors/OC_MPMM/BW/SenseCoil.png (http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory/MagneticMotors/OC_MPMM/BW/SenseCoil.png) - "Pic of the sensing coil that was use in some of the testing. Also it give excellent detail of the Judson damper." (B.W.; Jan. 7)

Added to http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:OC_MPMM_Magnet_Motor#B.W._Files (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:OC_MPMM_Magnet_Motor#B.W._Files)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: mikestocks2006 on January 08, 2008, 05:34:54 PM
Hi Jdo300

Nice work,
Just a note to add, as ebswift also pointed out and as alsetalokin posted few days back, and from the actuall device pics,  the stator dumper arrangement on the 13 holes is as follows.

D S D E E S E E E E S E E

where D=dumper, S=stator, E=empty

see also http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3871.135.html

I hope this helps for a more accurate replication.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 08, 2008, 05:46:34 PM
Quote from: sterlinga
http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory/MagneticMotors/OC_MPMM/BW/SenseCoil.png (http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory/MagneticMotors/OC_MPMM/BW/SenseCoil.png) - "Pic of the sensing coil that was use in some of the testing. Also it give excellent detail of the Judson damper." (B.W.; Jan. 7)

@sterlinga

I have managed to gradually collect a few photo's mainly from people emailing them over from their IE explorer caches LOL !

If you want to take a copy and pop them up on your site then feel free too.

http://www.overunity.org.uk

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 08, 2008, 07:49:19 PM
@ All

I found this interesting post by Al.  It says a lot. IMHO.

"With rotor magnets installed, stator magnets installed, stator magnets free to move but not spinning, rotor initial rpm 1250, rundown time ~120-125 seconds.
Same as above but with stator magnets (3) spinning gearwise, initial rpm 1250, rundown time ~ 90-100 seconds.
Same as above but with stator magnets removed and far away, initial rotor RPM 1250, rundown time ~ 130-140 seconds.
Same as above but with stator magnets screwed down hard to baseplate, not moveable, initial rotor RPM 1250, rundown time ~110-120 seconds, with a distinctly "coggy" feel and a reversal of direction at the very last revolution.
All 3 stator magnets installed and spinning, 2 gearwise and 1 antigearwise, max rpm and rundown time UNKNOWN."
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 08, 2008, 07:53:12 PM
@btebtzer,

Isn't this exactly the effect that caught our attention, which he discovered by mistake--having two stators turn gearwise whilst the third turning anti-gearwise?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 08, 2008, 08:12:34 PM
@btebtzer,

Isn't this exactly the effect that caught our attention, which he discovered by mistake--having two stators turn gearwise whilst the third turning anti-gearwise?

Of course.   ;)

But I like the details.   ;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 08, 2008, 08:24:45 PM
Attached Video.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 08, 2008, 08:41:14 PM
@Jdo300,

@mikestocks made a good point. It seems to me, however that the stators are equidistant while one of the dampers is closer to the stator than the other. What do you think?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 08, 2008, 08:42:09 PM
@btebtzer,

Oh, sure. Thanks for posting that text.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: robbie47 on January 08, 2008, 08:51:33 PM
Attached Video.

Aaahhhh, this makes us all very curious.
What do we actually see here on the stator magnets?
Is one of these clockwise and the other counterclockwise?

Guess you are tweaking now to get this baby running for an hour or so?
(while protecting your ears ;-)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: vipond50 on January 08, 2008, 08:55:03 PM
Attached Video.

Great, but am i seeing here ? Is this a spin down ? or  ????

Thanks CLaNZeR
Bill
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 08, 2008, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: vipond50
Great, but am i seeing here ? Is this a spin down ? or  ????

Thanks CLaNZeR
Bill

Hi Bill

You are only seeing a Spin Down.

I have done hundreds of spin downs over the last year on different projects and even got one wheel to spin down from 100 RPM taking over 4 minutes by using minature bearings.

This Rotor is loose using the 3mm RC bearings and that is all the video shows really.

I am just playing till the proper magnets arrive and hoping by going for the loosest bearings I can, that I will cut my friction losses from the bearings atleast, HOPEFULLY that will allow me to replicate the weird effect we see in AL's Rig happen.

Cheers

Sean.


Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 08, 2008, 09:06:23 PM
Quote from: robbie47
Aaahhhh, this makes us all very curious.
What do we actually see here on the stator magnets?
Is one of these clockwise and the other counterclockwise?

Guess you are tweaking now to get this baby running for an hour or so?
(while protecting your ears ;-)

Hi Robbie

I tried for a while flicking one of the Stator magnets the opposite way, but no increase shown by the Laser Tacho.
In saying that the Stator magnets are so small that I would not expect too see it.

Just playing till the correct magnets arrive.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: jcims on January 08, 2008, 09:29:04 PM
Attached Video.
FAKE!  No jamming tunes to go with it!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 08, 2008, 09:44:00 PM
Attached Video.
FAKE!  No jamming tunes to go with it!

ROFL  ;D ;D ;D

I knew I forgot something  ::)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: magpower on January 08, 2008, 09:46:35 PM
Sean

First off you do nice work and did a test like yours last night, but after watching the video is did you spin one Stator magnets CCW and rotor CW. I think this is only way this will run. I also wait for my parts and will play.

Wayne
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 08, 2008, 10:04:21 PM
Sean

First off you do nice work and did a test like yours last night, but after watching the video is did you spin one Stator magnets CCW and rotor CW. I think this is only way this will run. I also wait for my parts and will play.

Wayne

Hi Wayne

As stated 3 posts above I did try flicking the stator magnets, but they are just slid over some brass screws and not secure anyway.
Have drawn up the plans for the Stator magnets but before machining out I await the correct stator magnets to make sure I have got the sizes correct.

Good luck with your replication and get some pictures up!

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: magpower on January 08, 2008, 10:15:31 PM
Sean

opps didn't read that, but I am using 1" long rectangle blocks and same size dia mags on stator. For now I put them in small tubes so they spin but will rig something tonight so I can spin the one stator. It sure makes a noise mind you. Will post some pics soon but wanted to fix this first.

Best Of Luck
Wayne
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Silvije on January 08, 2008, 10:36:32 PM
this setup looks interesting!

but is it really slowing down? Can we get a daylight video?
Longer one? To see if and when it stops?

Where can this "backward Nikolatesla" guy be contacted?

thnx!

s.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Jdo300 on January 08, 2008, 10:42:19 PM
Hi Jdo300

Nice work,
Just a note to add, as ebswift also pointed out and as alsetalokin posted few days back, and from the actuall device pics,  the stator dumper arrangement on the 13 holes is as follows.

D S D E E S E E E E S E E

where D=dumper, S=stator, E=empty

see also http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3871.135.html

I hope this helps for a more accurate replication.


Thanks everyone for the heads up on the positioning of the stators. I corrected the model and re-uploaded the images to my last post:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3871.msg68853.html#msg68853

I also have finished the drawings and CAD Docs. In addition to that, I also made some 1:1 scale templates of the base plate and rotor disk for those who want to build this by hand.

I have attached dimensioned drawings of all the parts in PDF format and also the templates for the base plate and rotor disk.

There are also three zip files with CAD drawings of the parts in SAT, IGS, and DXF formats. If anyone has any comments or suggestions concerning the drawings please let me know.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 08, 2008, 10:46:41 PM
Excellent Jason!

Is it okay ok if I upload these to my site at http://www.overunity.org.uk and setup a plans link?

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Jdo300 on January 08, 2008, 10:50:59 PM
Sure, feel free to copy and distribute. Just let them know I made them in case anyone wants any further CAD work done  :).

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 08, 2008, 10:55:44 PM
@Jdo300,

Thanks Jason. Great job. I'm still a bit confused about the dampers, though. It appears to me one of the dampers is closer to the stationary magnet than the other. Could you please take another look.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 08, 2008, 10:56:08 PM
Sure, feel free to copy and distribute. Just let them know I made them in case anyone wants any further CAD work done  :).

God Bless,
Jason O


All added mate

and of course your name is next to them TUT, would I have it any other way ?  ;D

Will see if I can get time to turn your DXF files into Gcode and add tot he same page.

Cheers

Sean.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 08, 2008, 11:09:41 PM
@Jdo300,

Thanks Jason. Great job. I'm still a bit confused about the dampers, though. It appears to me one of the dampers is closer to the stationary magnet than the other. Could you please take another look.

Looking through the many pictures there is a mixture of old and new bases.
The base that was used in the demo seems to be the one below.
This shows there are no extra holes apart from the 13 Stator holes which says to me , maybe the Dampners are indeed in TO-BE Stator holder holes.
In saying this, the reason they are in those holes is confusing as in one of the many threads, AL stated the positioning of the dampners were hit and miss, but he probably meant where in the stator holes.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/snoc6.jpg)

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/sl3.jpg)

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/snoc14.jpg)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 08, 2008, 11:16:41 PM
@CLaNZeR,

I'm looking at the actual video and it seems the dampers there aren't evenly spaced. Can you please take another look at that video. I may be wrong.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 08, 2008, 11:24:43 PM
@CLaNZeR,

I'm looking at the actual video and it seems the dampers there aren't evenly spaced. Can you please take another look at that video. I may be wrong.

I can see what you are saying, because as we look at the video the left hand side dampner looks closer, but I am sure this is just the video angle.
Checkout this enhanced brighter version.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2Ck9xC4S44

At first when you look at the base, it looks like there are dash holes on the stator plate between each Stator mount hole, but I am sure this is just a shadow cause by the light.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: vipond50 on January 08, 2008, 11:29:29 PM
Awesome Job Jason :D

Thanks for doing all that work, very much appreciated

Bill
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 08, 2008, 11:30:27 PM
I don't know, still seems closer. This is a detail, however. We'll see what the truth is when the magnets arrive and we start playing with it.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: mikestocks2006 on January 08, 2008, 11:31:06 PM
@Jdo300,

Thanks Jason. Great job. I'm still a bit confused about the dampers, though. It appears to me one of the dampers is closer to the stationary magnet than the other. Could you please take another look.

Looking through the many pictures there is a mixture of old and new bases.
The base that was used in the demo seems to be the one below.
This shows there are no extra holes apart from the 13 Stator holes which says to me , maybe the Dampners are indeed in TO-BE Stator holder holes.
In saying this, the reason they are in those holes is confusing as in one of the many threads, AL stated the positioning of the dampners were hit and miss, but he probably meant where in the stator holes.


Hi CLaNZeR,
The dampers are on the 2 of the 13 predrilled holes flanking the stator.

Also see alsetalokin's post
"...And one more time: 6061-T6 extruded aluminum bar stock, machined to the exact dimensions of the stator magnets (except I really did use a 3/16 hole, the magnets are a bit bigger here), spaced and oriented by trial and error, and in my unit, the pre-drilled holes for the stator magnets seemed close enough to the sweet positions so I just used them."

I hope this helps
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 08, 2008, 11:34:13 PM
Quote from: mikestocks2006
The dampers are on the 2 of the 13 predrilled holes flanking the stator.

Also see alsetalokin's post
"...And one more time: 6061-T6 extruded aluminum bar stock, machined to the exact dimensions of the stator magnets (except I really did use a 3/16 hole, the magnets are a bit bigger here), spaced and oriented by trial and error, and in my unit, the pre-drilled holes for the stator magnets seemed close enough to the sweet positions so I just used them."

Thanks Mike

Missed that last line, but seems to clear it up and makes life easier!.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: rotorhead on January 09, 2008, 12:13:15 AM
Sean,
Check your email.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 09, 2008, 12:42:58 AM
Sean,
Check your email.

Hi mate

Last email I got from you was at 21:00 and I replied, you sure your Spam filter is not binning my replies again LOL  ;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Jdo300 on January 09, 2008, 12:58:25 AM
Hi All,

Glad you like the CAD drawings. Just wondering, would anyone who has CNC capability be willing to cut parts out for me if I could buy the supplies and send them to you? I could conceivably do this by hand but I would rather have it done right.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Andyteee on January 09, 2008, 01:02:10 AM
can i ask what peoples preferd cad software is ?

thanks

andy
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: vipond50 on January 09, 2008, 01:06:16 AM
Hi
I Use AutoCad 2008 and AutoCad Inventor, Also AutoCad Maya 08 version
Worked with others, but i guess i am stuck in a rut.

Bill
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Lakes on January 09, 2008, 02:01:13 AM
Maybe someone will put together/provide a replication kit?, could be a nice little earner for someone with access to a CNC machine...
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: hanker886 on January 09, 2008, 02:10:07 AM
Hi All,

Glad you like the CAD drawings. Just wondering, would anyone who has CNC capability be willing to cut parts out for me if I could buy the supplies and send them to you? I could conceivably do this by hand but I would rather have it done right.

God Bless,
Jason O


Jason,

Let me check with Techshop  We might be able to use the CNC there. Let's talk about it.

Hank
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Gearhead on January 09, 2008, 02:11:32 AM
Hi All,

Glad you like the CAD drawings. Just wondering, would anyone who has CNC capability be willing to cut parts out for me if I could buy the supplies and send them to you? I could conceivably do this by hand but I would rather have it done right.

God Bless,
Jason O

Jason, I have a CNC lathe and CNC mill.  We could give it a try.  I use Bobcad.  Your DXF baseplate and rotor drawings imported right into it.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: magpower on January 09, 2008, 02:52:57 AM
Hi All,

Glad you like the CAD drawings. Just wondering, would anyone who has CNC capability be willing to cut parts out for me if I could buy the supplies and send them to you? I could conceivably do this by hand but I would rather have it done right.

God Bless,
Jason O

Jason

You did a great job and must of took allot of time. I wish I had CNC machine but only small lathe. But on your rotor pdf drawing is it possible to have a center dot or X on circle. Makes is more accurate for center and if someone wants a smaller shaft like me.

Thanks Again
Wayne
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: bhaas on January 09, 2008, 05:06:36 AM
Hi All,

Glad you like the CAD drawings. Just wondering, would anyone who has CNC capability be willing to cut parts out for me if I could buy the supplies and send them to you? I could conceivably do this by hand but I would rather have it done right.

God Bless,
Jason O

Hi Jason,

I might be able to do it. I don't have access to a CNC but I work right up the street from a plastic place that does CNC work and might be able to get up there during work sometime this week and see what they can do. Is there any metal CNC work that needs to be done also?

It looks to me like the motor is mostly plastic. I definitely want to build one of these. Also a friend of mine is interested in building one also. If no one else can do it I may be able to. But if someone already has access and can do this for us I'd sure like to get some prices. Thanks.

Brad
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Jdo300 on January 09, 2008, 08:00:42 AM
Hi All,

Glad you like the CAD drawings. Just wondering, would anyone who has CNC capability be willing to cut parts out for me if I could buy the supplies and send them to you? I could conceivably do this by hand but I would rather have it done right.

God Bless,
Jason O


Jason,

Let me check with Techshop  We might be able to use the CNC there. Let's talk about it.

Hank

Thanks Hank. I'll take you up on that.

@ Everyone, thanks for the generous offers for help. After I get this first model in my hands and can show that it works, the next step will be to make a more adjustable version (like CLaNZeR's) so we can try out different magnet configurations.

@ Wayne,

I replaced the Template files in the CAD Files post with files containing centerline marks for the holes. Let me know if this helps.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3871.msg69004.html#msg69004

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 09, 2008, 08:10:16 AM
Hi Jason,

Thank you for the great work with your limited time, on the drawings. 

I have ordered my magnets, and will check on those bearings for us, tomorrow.

It won't be long and we will be up and kicking...Oops!  Wrong thread....up and rotating!  LOL   ;D


Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Dom on January 09, 2008, 09:18:59 AM
Hi Guys,

Nice work on the replications so far, here is a few of mine from the past:-

torbays replication...Unsuccessful
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=5291826833015915174

Effect of aluminium turntable on small magnet rotor:-
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=5120456679111181820

Kundel magnet motor...Succesful, using two solenoids with timing disk
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=-1674978842555764354

Some people here will know me from before, I'm going to give this ago, as I have a stack of magnets from my previous projects
they are rectangle mostly, I do have some ring magnets, but ill try with the small rectangle ones first.

Dom
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: vipond50 on January 09, 2008, 01:46:12 PM
Hello Group
The time has come to seek a specification on the Stator bearings
In my Rep I will be hopefully using a bearing of the following specification.

Basic Spec.
ID - 0.25", OD - 0.5", Thk - .125 or Metric equivalent, *Free spin*
Material - 300(316) series Stainless
Application - Bearing going into a magnetic application, so needs to of the Non magnetic type, Operational speed in the order of 4K rpm
Have RFI 's out to various vendors and hope to here from them soon.
Note: I would prefer to have a flange type, but may have to settle for the standard shell.
Was interested in the bearing choices the other replicators are planning on incorporating because i feel this is an critical aspect of the device operation.
This is the reason for this Inquiry and Posting  ;D

Bill
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Dom on January 09, 2008, 02:05:50 PM
Teflon bearings out of no longer working hard disk drives make great bearings
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: vipond50 on January 09, 2008, 02:20:20 PM
Teflon bearings out of no longer working hard disk drives make great bearings

Dom
Are thinking of the fluid dynamic bearing use by Western Digital  ?
Problem here is availability of off the shelf components, so this would be a variant to the replication, correct?

Bill
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: ken_nyus on January 09, 2008, 02:33:07 PM
How about a group buy of the machined parts from a place like eMachineshop.com?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 09, 2008, 03:37:25 PM
Got my 1/4 * 1/4 * 1/4 cubes today. So marked them up and mounted in Rotor.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/cuberotor1.jpg)

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/cuberotor2.jpg)

Now just waiting for the Stator Magnets.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Dom on January 09, 2008, 03:39:50 PM
I don't think so Bill, FDB are or would be fairly new,,,, 3 of the drives that I rippped them out of are 80 to 100gig, ibm, is definitely one of them, The main spindle bearing has the backing plate which you can unscrew of the drive and use the whole assembly as is on the magnet motor board, there's another bearing which is the read/write arm bearing....
Thats what i'll be using, ask for defective drives at your local pc supplier, you might be surprised they might come to your aid.

Harddrive bearings spin fairly well.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 09, 2008, 04:49:13 PM
This is interesting.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/smallD.jpg)

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/Smini1.jpg)

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/Smini2.jpg)

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/Smini3.jpg)

Might have to order more as they are only ?3.25 for 15 of them.


Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: jcims on January 09, 2008, 04:57:40 PM
Got my 1/4 * 1/4 * 1/4 cubes today. So marked them up and mounted in Rotor.
Wind down times are probably double now with all that weight at the outside. The rest of us are probably nearly as anxious as you are to get the rest of the magnets get in!!!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: vipond50 on January 09, 2008, 05:09:08 PM
Got my 1/4 * 1/4 * 1/4 cubes today. So marked them up and mounted in Rotor.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/cuberotor1.jpg)

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/cuberotor2.jpg)

Now just waiting for the Stator Magnets.

Cheers

Sean.


Looks Great Sean :D
Gradually coming together. man my order must be being shipped by Camel LOL
Looking forward to see your unit running a couple K
Thanks for sharing
Bill   :)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: unzapped on January 09, 2008, 05:09:26 PM
Well you guys dont know me from Adam, but I have been here watching for a looong time... I am extremely interested in this particular project, I have submitted the plans as kindly provided by Jason to my local machine shop friend... I have asked him to supply me a quote for 10 of the units... if there is any interest please let me know... I will post the cost each hopefully by the end of today. I am not sure how expensive it will be but will gladly send them at my cost plus shipping. Thanks

UZ
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Jdo300 on January 09, 2008, 05:26:32 PM
Hello Group
The time has come to seek a specification on the Stator bearings
In my Rep I will be hopefully using a bearing of the following specification.

Basic Spec.
ID - 0.25", OD - 0.5", Thk - .125 or Metric equivalent, *Free spin*
Material - 300(316) series Stainless
Application - Bearing going into a magnetic application, so needs to of the Non magnetic type, Operational speed in the order of 4K rpm
Have RFI 's out to various vendors and hope to here from them soon.
Note: I would prefer to have a flange type, but may have to settle for the standard shell.
Was interested in the bearing choices the other replicators are planning on incorporating because i feel this is an critical aspect of the device operation.
This is the reason for this Inquiry and Posting  ;D

Bill

For the Stator magnets, I believe that Al did not use nonmagnetic bearings. The fact that the bearings are magnetic may play a critical role in the motor's operation. We do not yet completely understand what components are necessary for the effect to work so I would suggest that you use the same type of bearings that Al used just to see the effect, and then replace them with non-magnetic ones later.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: vipond50 on January 09, 2008, 05:32:13 PM
Hi Jason
I would if i new the spec. Do U have this if formation?
Bearing Number _________ ?

Thanks
Bill
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Jdo300 on January 09, 2008, 05:39:53 PM
I don't know the exact part number. He did mention the dimensions of the stator bearings though (which are noted in the blueprint drawings) and noted that he got most of them from Stewart-Warner. Beyond that, I don't know.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: vipond50 on January 09, 2008, 05:47:13 PM
Jason
Excellent, Yes i new the dimensions, but not the manufacture. Will go chase it and see if i can come with more details. Actually planed on looking at both i.e. Chromium (magnetic) Non magnetic (SS).
But first have to get the device to operate.  ;D

Regards
Bill
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: skymovingcloud on January 09, 2008, 05:53:50 PM
Well you guys dont know me from Adam, but I have been here watching for a looong time... I am extremely interested in this particular project, I have submitted the plans as kindly provided by Jason to my local machine shop friend... I have asked him to supply me a quote for 10 of the units... if there is any interest please let me know... I will post the cost each hopefully by the end of today. I am not sure how expensive it will be but will gladly send them at my cost plus shipping. Thanks

UZ

definitely interested, dependant on price of course, please keep us posted.
cheers
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: oak on January 09, 2008, 05:56:41 PM
Well you guys dont know me from Adam, but I have been here watching for a looong time... I am extremely interested in this particular project, I have submitted the plans as kindly provided by Jason to my local machine shop friend... I have asked him to supply me a quote for 10 of the units... if there is any interest please let me know... I will post the cost each hopefully by the end of today. I am not sure how expensive it will be but will gladly send them at my cost plus shipping. Thanks

UZ
Hi Unzapped.  I'm interested.  But it might depend on where you're located -- it probably wouldn't make sense to ship half way around the world.  (I'm in the U.S.)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Lakes on January 09, 2008, 06:02:23 PM
Well you guys dont know me from Adam, but I have been here watching for a looong time... I am extremely interested in this particular project, I have submitted the plans as kindly provided by Jason to my local machine shop friend... I have asked him to supply me a quote for 10 of the units... if there is any interest please let me know... I will post the cost each hopefully by the end of today. I am not sure how expensive it will be but will gladly send them at my cost plus shipping. Thanks

UZ
Are you in the Uk?, anyway interested, depending on cost + shipping.

Has anyone sourced the other parts?, bearings, magnets for the Uk?, I have the link for the German magnet company, but would prefer somewhere in the Uk.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 09, 2008, 06:06:25 PM
@uzapped,

Please, count me in but let's see the price first.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Dom on January 09, 2008, 06:11:30 PM
I don't know the exact part number. He did mention the dimensions of the stator bearings though (which are noted in the blueprint drawings) and noted that he got most of them from Stewart-Warner. Beyond that, I don't know.



Hi Jason and Bill

From the ocmotor pdf:-

Parts
-Perspex baseplate
-Delrin stator
-R834DIA magnets for the stator
-B448 magnets for the rotor (OC)/??? bar magnets polarized end-wise for the
rotor (Al)
-10 nylon 8-32 screws for stator magnets
-tiny ball-bearings for stator magnets--RC helicopter spare parts.
-Stator magnet/bearing plastic housings/holders

I did a google search on ball bearings for rc helicopters but could not find what material is used, without me calling the rc guys up i'm assuming here that they are magnetic.

Dom
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: magpower on January 09, 2008, 06:15:45 PM
Well you guys dont know me from Adam, but I have been here watching for a looong time... I am extremely interested in this particular project, I have submitted the plans as kindly provided by Jason to my local machine shop friend... I have asked him to supply me a quote for 10 of the units... if there is any interest please let me know... I will post the cost each hopefully by the end of today. I am not sure how expensive it will be but will gladly send them at my cost plus shipping. Thanks

UZ

I sent you a email but would like one and in Canada
Thks

Wayne
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 09, 2008, 06:17:29 PM
@Dom,

The rc helicopter guys said they have no idea what they are made of. I ordered them anyway--an apache type spare bearings.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: magpower on January 09, 2008, 06:25:40 PM
Go here   http://www.greathobbies.com/index.php   and search bearings then you can see them all. also recommend just visit your local R/C shop and carry a magnet and shop.

Wayne
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Dom on January 09, 2008, 06:35:08 PM
@Dom,

The rc helicopter guys said they have no idea what they are made of. I ordered them anyway--an apache type spare bearings.

np, i'll check the hdd bearings with a magnet soon, i don't think they are magnetic
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 09, 2008, 06:43:31 PM
Quote from: Lakes

Has anyone sourced the other parts?, bearings, magnets for the Uk?, I have the link for the German magnet company, but would prefer somewhere in the Uk.

Hi Lakes

I have some 5mm * 20mm Neos on order from this UK company. Could not get 6mm.
http://www.first4magnets.com/bar--rod-magnets-1-c.asp
http://e-magnetsuk.com/magnet_products/neodymium_magnets/rod_magnets.aspx

I have done a second Rotor to accompany these.

For Bearings try http://www.technobots.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Bearings_377.html

Hope this helps

Cheers

Sean.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: erickdt on January 09, 2008, 06:58:59 PM
I'd also suggest the McMaster Carr website as a source for bearings (and almost anything else you could possibly ever want). http://www.mcmaster.com/

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: ken_nyus on January 09, 2008, 07:04:07 PM
Well you guys dont know me from Adam, but I have been here watching for a looong time... I am extremely interested in this particular project, I have submitted the plans as kindly provided by Jason to my local machine shop friend... I have asked him to supply me a quote for 10 of the units... if there is any interest please let me know... I will post the cost each hopefully by the end of today. I am not sure how expensive it will be but will gladly send them at my cost plus shipping. Thanks

UZ

Hey UZ, please count me in also. I sent a PM.

I ordered magnets today.

You know I was just giving up on my own Magnet Motor project, ready to throw all that junk out, and this comes along pulling me back in!

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: vipond50 on January 09, 2008, 07:14:49 PM
Hi
Been Snooping and came across this spec.
These are magnetic, but got a hunch I'll be purchasing more bearings
later of the same dimensions, but different construction material.
Please see attached

Bill

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Andyteee on January 09, 2008, 08:27:48 PM
any one thought about takeing the bearings out of an old hard drive or PC CPU or PSU fan ? or are they to small ?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Craigy on January 09, 2008, 08:48:42 PM
Got started on my own proof of concept , magnets are 6mm by 12mm on a rotor i had lying around. I will cut another att the correct diameter , but without cnc that takes time. The magents are a friction fit into the slots that were cut out using a 2 flute milling bit in a vertical pilar drill. The plastic moved by hand  ( oh Dear !) anyway it gets me going..lol
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 09, 2008, 08:52:20 PM
Got started on my own proof of concept , magnets are 6mm by 12mm on a rotor i had lying around. I will cut another att the correct diameter , but without cnc that takes time. The magents are a friction fit into the slots that were cut out using a 2 flute milling bit in a vertical pilar drill. The plastic moved by hand  ( oh Dear !) anyway it gets me going..lol

Nice one Craigy
Was wondering when you were going to join us TUT 
And do not give us that excuse of Xmas/New Year visitors etc etc LOL  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: mudwump on January 09, 2008, 08:56:30 PM
I am very impressed by how well thought out the design is, especially from a materials and adjustability standpoint. Good job! :)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 09, 2008, 09:02:45 PM
Played with a few ideas for the stator magnet mounts because I want them to be movable.

This seems to be the best design I can think of:

I went for a 6mm Rod lathed down to 3mm with a lip to space it slightly off the top of the bearing.
Press Fitted the 6mm end into a bit of 16mm Polycarbonate Rod. Will use a little bit of glue too seal it.
Tapped a 3mm thread on the end.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/Ssax1.jpg)

Mounted the 6mm OD and 3mm ID Flange bearings either side of the holder.
Press fitted the Brass rod inside the bearings by doing the nut up tight and then removing it.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/Ssax2.jpg)

The block is held in place and can be slid back and forth.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/Ssax3.jpg)

I should now be able to lathe out the 16mm Rod to press fit the 12.7mm Stator Magnets.

Cheers

Sean.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 09, 2008, 09:43:39 PM
Forgot to add the video :)

Shows how loose they are using one of the small Magnets.

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/CLaNZeRSStatorBearing.wmv
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: starcruiser on January 09, 2008, 09:43:52 PM
@CLaNZeR.. Nice work sir! I was wondering how you would make the magnets movable on the "X" & "Y" axis.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 09, 2008, 10:10:24 PM
@CLaNZeR.. Nice work sir! I was wondering how you would make the magnets movable on the "X" & "Y" axis.

Thx Starcruiser

I am now wondering whether to press fit the Brass Axles directly into the Stator Magnets, rather than lathing the Poly Rod to seat them in.

Anybody have any reasons why I should not press fit the Stator magnets directly onto the brass axles?

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Craigy on January 09, 2008, 10:20:27 PM
Good stuff Sean,

I am thinking of mounting the spinning stators in the same way as the rotor , i.e on a shaft of say 30mm , supported in bearings top and bottom. You may have noticed that my shaft is threaded rod with the ends turned to fit bearings. I wondered about turning a shaft but that meant dieciding on a height. Since i belive the interactions between rotors and stators are not on exactly the same plane ,perhaps 5 or 10 degrees off. The bolted rotor makes it posible to lower or raise it in relation to the stators. Not sure if that will be useful of not , will have to wait for the other magnets to arrive.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Jdo300 on January 09, 2008, 10:24:02 PM
@CLaNZeR.. Nice work sir! I was wondering how you would make the magnets movable on the "X" & "Y" axis.

Thx Starcruiser

I am now wondering whether to press fit the Brass Axles directly into the Stator Magnets, rather than lathing the Poly Rod to seat them in.

Anybody have any reasons why I should not press fit the Stator magnets directly onto the brass axles?

Hi CLaNZeR,

The NdFeB magnet material is pretty brittle once the magnets are sintered. So you may run the risk of them shattering (while press fitting the shafts or while they are in motion later). As for the brass itself, I don't think that would harm it magnetically.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 09, 2008, 10:26:49 PM
I am thinking of mounting the spinning stators in the same way as the rotor , i.e on a shaft of say 30mm , supported in bearings top and bottom. You may have noticed that my shaft is threaded rod with the ends turned to fit bearings. I wondered about turning a shaft but that meant dieciding on a height. Since i belive the interactions between rotors and stators are not on exactly the same plane ,perhaps 5 or 10 degrees off. The bolted rotor makes it posible to lower or raise it in relation to the stators. Not sure if that will be useful of not , will have to wait for the other magnets to arrive.

Must admit mate I do like the idea of have the threaded brass rod as the main axle, as it allows you to alter the height of your Rotor to suit, instead of trying to get the Stators to match the height of the Rotor. With mine I have left the middle axle exactly 8mm and Press fitted it into the Rotor, I can adjsut but getting it to sit square would be an issue. Ummmm might have to get the Tap and Die set out again :)

With the design you have there mate I would make you Stators Static in height as you can adjust your Rotor to suit.
On your lathe you can get the Stator Axles exactly the same length with a V either end to take up the slack.
I did think about top and bottom mounting of the bearings for the Stator but was abit concered about running a brass rod through the whole length of the Stator magnet. Whether it will effect the effect as such, I do not know!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 09, 2008, 10:29:46 PM
Quote from: Jdo300
The NdFeB magnet material is pretty brittle once the magnets are sintered. So you may run the risk of them shattering (while press fitting the shafts or while they are in motion later). As for the brass itself, I don't think that would harm it magnetically.

Thanks Jason

I do think we are safe with brass not interfering too much and I agree with the magnets destroying themselves very easly, especially when they slam together LOL

I have a pack of 10 coming so will see how tight I can get the tolerance of the Axle and not push it too much.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 09, 2008, 10:32:43 PM
@CLaNZeR,

I wonder if brass would be the best. Eddy currents and such ... However, we have to know what @alsetalonkin used because these eddy currents may be needed for it to run. The stators are mounted on plastic axes, correct? I'm still not clear exactly how these pieces (both rotor and stators) are mounted in the original. There are various ways but sticking to what was successfully done is the best strategy, I think. (recall the failure of @xpenzif's motor because it occurred to no one to use 14-diagonal row cylinder with an 8-barrier stepper motor and that compromised the replications; that was @xpenzif's fault not to emphasize on that.)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 09, 2008, 10:34:47 PM
See, @alsetalonkin denies that such details are of importance and that may turn out to be so ultimately. For now methinks we should be true to the original, don't you think?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 09, 2008, 10:41:31 PM
@CLaNZeR,

I wonder if brass would be the best. Eddy currents and such ... However, we have to know what @alsetalonkin used because these eddy currents may be needed for it to run. The stators are mounted on plastic axes, correct? I'm still not clear how exactly these pieces (both rotor and stators) are mounted in the original. There are various ways but sticking to what was successfully done is the best strategy, I think,

Originally AL used Nylon bolts from what I see and mounted the bearings on these.
I have used Nylon in the past and yep handy for making sure no Eddy currents are created, but on the down side are the bearings really sealed against that Nylon and hence slipping while turning. Atleast with brass we can nearly guarantee a snugg fit with no slipping and hence cutting our friction losses.

The only plus thing about the video we have seen is the accelaration from just over 1000rpm to over 4000rpm. For anyone that has played with Rigs and Rotors that is actually bloody incredible.
With a really loose Rig you would struggle to get it past 1000rpm with spinning by hand and no way would you ever get over 4000 rpm.

This is why this weird effect is so interesting and if it is real then I should think with that much gain a little bit of drag is not going too stop the effect happening.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: MeggerMan on January 09, 2008, 10:45:54 PM
Hi Sean,
When you ordered from K&J Magnets in the US, did you exceed the value of 18GBP (34USD) ?
According to the HM customs page if you exceed this then you have to pay duty and that will be to ParcelForce (handover from USPS) who are a real pain and levy a heavy charge for paying the duty on your behalf.
Also it slows down your order.
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_FAQs&propertyType=document&columns=1&id=HMCE_PROD_008566

I was thinking we could have split the postage but its the duty on a double order that would negate this idea.
If you can get K&J to mark the package as a "gift" then you can have 36GBP worth of goods before you pay duty.
I have just asked this question to see if its possible.

Hope to start building the same as you very shortly - time to play with the router table again.

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 09, 2008, 10:49:16 PM
OK, I guess you're right about snugness. As for the effect, I won't probably emphasize on the 5000rpm because of that argument with the decreasing moment of inertia causing the increase of the rpm to conserve the angular momentum. It'll be enough for me to se that after I've imparted by hand 400rpms to the rotor, the rotor kicks in, accelerates and spins at 1200rpm for 3 hours. Will try to have this done in a Faraday cage to kill forever the silly suppositions that the effect may be due to tapping energy from the local cell phone antenna or the local radio station.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 09, 2008, 10:50:25 PM
Hi Sean,
When you ordered from K&J Magnets in the US, did you exceed the value of 18GBP (34USD) ?
According to the HM customs page if you exceed this then you have to pay duty and that will be to ParcelForce (handover from USPS) who are a real pain and levy a heavy charge for paying the duty on your behalf.

Hi Rob

My order only came too $17.10 so should be okay.

I know what you are saying though, have had many a Duty slap of 20% (By the time the Courier puts their admin fee on) when I used to order alot of components from the USA.

It was only after I placed my order did I notice they also did 1/4 inch rod magnets in different lengths and wished I has ordered a few. Managed to get some 5mm ones in UK though.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 09, 2008, 10:54:51 PM
OK, I guess you're right about snugness. As for the effect, I won't probably emphasize on the 5000rpm because of that argument with the decreasing moment of inertia causing the increase of the rpm to preserve the angular momentum. It'll be enough for me to se that after I've imparted by hand 400rpms to the rotor, the rotor kicks in, accelerates and spins at 1200rpm for 3 hours. Will try to have this done in a Faraday cage to kill forever the silly suppositions that the effect may be due to tapping energy from the local cell phone antenna or the local radio station.

I would be even happier if it was picking up some sort of RF signal and creating that effect I must admit!. Any schoolboy Pyshics class will show how you can tap nearly a volt from think air, but as soon as you try to pull current it ain't gonna drive alot and must admit these claims of charging mobile phones is interesting but stretching it a bit.

If the RF signals or any other stray signals can create an effect on magnets like we have seen in AL's video, then I will be buying a house next to a mobile phone mast hehe  ;D ;D

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 09, 2008, 11:02:22 PM
We recently stroke a deal with such company to build their antenna on our property and pay us a monthly rent for that. So, you say, had we found a proper device we could also steal energy from that. But that's stealing (forgive the frank language) while I think what we're working on is producing energy from nothing. Anyway, just a little friendly chit-chat now while waiting for the magnets.  My friend already started the lathing an milling, the magnets and the bearings will arrive soon and it'll be seen shortly what we're facing.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Lakes on January 09, 2008, 11:07:50 PM
I`ve sent an email to the e-magnets website with the specs from the K&J website to see if can provide both the correct rotor and stator magnets thats needed.

I let you know when I get a reply.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 09, 2008, 11:15:55 PM
We recently stroke a deal with such company to build their antenna on our property and pay us a monthly rent for that. So, you say, had we found a proper device we could also steal energy from that. But that's stealing (forgive the frank language) while I think what we're working on is producing energy from nothing. Anyway, just a little friendly chit-chat now while waiting for the magnets.  My friend already started the lathing an milling, the magnets and the bearings will arrive soon and it'll be seen shortly what we're facing.

Apparently far back when they first started transmitting TV signals, people found a way of tapping power off it, but the way that the TV stations found out was that the signal was not reaching the whole area that it was meant too reach, this was because the buggers were tapping it for power and draining the signal before it got that far hehe  ;D

So you cannot really call this FREE ENERGY as it is being created from another source anyway.

It is illegal to do this BTW and I would not advise to have a go :)

Take a motor and get it to increase the speed of a Rotor from 1000rpm to 4000 rpm, it will take current to start that motor, it will take current to get it too that 4000rpm speed. That requires energy, but if AL's Rig has found a away of doing it without anything but the magnets then we Defo got something interesting here!

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 09, 2008, 11:33:58 PM
Hey guys,

Al posted this just today and thought it might help.

"Oh, and the rotor is HDPE, the base is acrylic (perspex or plexiglas) and the stator bearing/magnet holders, and the rotor shaft adapter, are of Delrin.
The stators are held to the base in my unit with austenitic SS socket-head cap screws, #4-40, and a tiny washer for clearance (under the bearing).
(ETA I found plastic screws were too flexible for this purpose.)
"


Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 09, 2008, 11:53:34 PM
@btentzer,

Any idea where to order these form or Home Depot will have tons of them?

@CLaNZeR,

Didn't know about the tv companies. Interesting. Now we'll put it in a Faraday cage to prove to the authorities what we already know anyway, that is, that the effect isn't due to tapping into the energy pool of an antenna and therefore it isn't illegal. Nevertheless, I won't be amazed if the government pronounces this particular way of energy production (production of energy from nothing) as illegal if it becomes abundant and people start detaching themselves from the utility companies. You watch.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: rotorhead on January 10, 2008, 12:10:21 AM
Everyone still waiting for magnets? Maybe they're out of stock after selling so many for that secret military Black Project?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Craigy on January 10, 2008, 12:20:02 AM
i bought the magnets 30 seconds after watching the video , and saw the video as it was posted LOL , nutters arn?t we. I take Al doesn?t work for kj does he ..?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Elvis Oswald on January 10, 2008, 12:20:07 AM
We recently stroke a deal with such company to build their antenna on our property and pay us a monthly rent for that. So, you say, had we found a proper device we could also steal energy from that. But that's stealing (forgive the frank language) while I think what we're working on is producing energy from nothing. Anyway, just a little friendly chit-chat now while waiting for the magnets.  My friend already started the lathing an milling, the magnets and the bearings will arrive soon and it'll be seen shortly what we're facing.

Apparently far back when they first started transmitting TV signals, people found a way of tapping power off it, but the way that the TV stations found out was that the signal was not reaching the whole area that it was meant too reach, this was because the buggers were tapping it for power and draining the signal before it got that far hehe  ;D

So you cannot really call this FREE ENERGY as it is being created from another source anyway.

It is illegal to do this BTW and I would not advise to have a go :)

Take a motor and get it to increase the speed of a Rotor from 1000rpm to 4000 rpm, it will take current to start that motor, it will take current to get it too that 4000rpm speed. That requires energy, but if AL's Rig has found a away of doing it without anything but the magnets then we Defo got something interesting here!



hmmm... so the number of radios tuned to a station diminishes the signal?  Doesn't sound right to me...
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Craigy on January 10, 2008, 12:40:30 AM
I remember a story of someone lighting their shed back in nazi germany with the power from one of the most powerful transmitters of the time, (Gobels and all that), i thing they were like 10 km away from a megawatt signal. The Chap strung a long wire antenna up between some trees and conected it to earth via a light bulb.

Any way , from what i remember , he ended up shot for it...

Radio recievers do not take energy out , in fact they are more liable to re-radiate the signal recieved.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: hydrocontrol on January 10, 2008, 01:13:11 AM
I got my K&J magnetics today. Ordered Monday. Standard shipping. No express. Nice magnets. Got 2 two sizes of ring magnets.. The 1/2x3/16x1/4 (R834DIA) and the 3/4x1/4x3/4 (RC4CDIA). Got a couple of different 1/4 rod ones as well.  It is nice they throw in a sample bag of magnets except they stuck to the other magnets and the bag ripped when i tried to remove. They might prove useful. . Now if I only had a rig to mount it all. Lets see.. Got a $10.00 poly cutting board from WallyWorld. Standard cheap material to used for prototypes. Easy to machine. That should should be big enough for the rotor and base. Got a rod of 6061-t6 aluminum. Got some Pleasure Tool roller skate bearings that should go up to high rpm... Now to convince the machinist that I need to use the shop ;) hummm... Maybe show him the video of the motor. That might work. I'll see if I can get started building tonight...  Later...
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 10, 2008, 01:32:00 AM
Hey Guys,

I spoke with the owner of A & W Bearings and Supply Co.
1-936-564-4810

Ask for Mike Butler 

He knows all about the magnet motor and has all the drawings.

Bearings for the Stator Magnets:
Part number = R3
Size is 1/2" OD
3/16" ID
1/8" Thickness
Price is $2.40 each, Package of 10
= $24.40
Steel Bearing
RPM rated:
With Grease 41,000 RPM's
With Oil 48,000 RPM's   ;D
No Seal (Less friction)

Bearing for Rotor Stator
1/2" OD
1/4" ID
1/8" Thickness (times 2.  One on top and one on bottom.)
No Flange
$1.50 each per package of 10 =
$10.50 
Same type and rating as above.

For flanged, he is pricing tomorrow.  Shipping is added and is subject to where you live, and how you want it shipped, etc.

Mike is excited about this project.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Dom on January 10, 2008, 01:50:36 AM
Here's my attempt so far, just started it today, should have it done by today, im hoping anyway...lol

bearings ripped out of HDD, one on nylon disk was forced in by using drill press, thx for the tip who mentioned this in this thread.
The 4 smaller bearings you see there on that brass screw were actually taken from the one housing, if you force the shaft through, you will get at least two bearings from the one.

Oh the reason theres those large squares cut out, is because this was from another project i was doing, for bedini rotor.
I used drill press to do all the work here and small file.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: m0thman on January 10, 2008, 02:08:30 AM
Have been watching this thread with great interest.  Just wishing all you replicators (nothing to do with Stargate) all the best success.  I'd have a go and indeed had some ideas of my own but currently suffering from FIAS due to lack of funds, tools and materials   :-[

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: ken_nyus on January 10, 2008, 02:10:30 AM
What about the dampers? From my reading the original configuration would not work without them...

<quote>
...the unit runs faster without the magnokinetic Judson dampers. Typical stator speeds are 8000 rpm, rotor 2000. But the unit is quite unstable at those speeds, maybe due to the cheap bearings I used for the stators. But that's unknown, it could be that the bearing chatter actually contributes to the effect by some chaotic dynamical interaction. Don't ask me with what!

Anyway the unit will run up to high speed but only stays for a short time before the stator "drops out" and the rotor freewheels to a stop. I figured that a little eddy-current damping at high speeds (and proportionally less at low speeds, so the damping at startup speeds is essentially zero.) would do the trick.

There was an adjustment process that took a couple hours to find the sweet spot and the orientation, and it seemed so close to an already drilled and tapped set of holes in the base, that I just used the existing holes, even though the positioning wasn't totally optimum. It seems to do what I intended. I never anticipated the need for these dampers when I was laying out the unit.
</quote>

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Craigy on January 10, 2008, 02:18:56 AM
i will worry about the dampers when i have the magnets, any way , without the dampers it still sped up to unbelievable revs, so i will be looking for that before i install them..
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 10, 2008, 02:20:22 AM
What's FIAS?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: m0thman on January 10, 2008, 02:27:28 AM
LOL...  finger in a$$ syndrome :-)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: cre8unitty on January 10, 2008, 02:27:39 AM
Craigy...could you clarify your comment?  ....what sped up to incredible revs?  Thanks.  ???
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: mikeytown2 on January 10, 2008, 03:08:00 AM
If anyone has a higher quality video of this, could they please pass it along? Also if there are any other videos you want put up i can do this as well. I can increase the quality on youtube. how? I use a hex editor on the video (i lie about the runtime to youtube).

Example of hex edited video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bD_nSgY08TY

-Mikeytown2
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: RunningBare on January 10, 2008, 03:18:19 AM
If anyone has a higher quality video of this, could they please pass it along? Also if there are any other videos you want put up i can do this as well. I can increase the quality on youtube. how? I use a hex editor on the video (i lie about the runtime to youtube).

Example of hex edited video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bD_nSgY08TY

-Mikeytown2

Alsetalokin only made one video then removed it after a couple of days because of the hassle it caused, all the other videos were taken from that one.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: RunningBare on January 10, 2008, 03:22:35 AM
Craigy...could you clarify your comment?  ....what sped up to incredible revs?  Thanks.  ???

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3871.msg69360.html#msg69360 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3871.msg69360.html#msg69360)

The quote was made by the builder alsetalokin.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Dusty on January 10, 2008, 04:14:22 AM
Well,  I'm all ready for testing tomorrow.  Everything is ready just to drop in the magnets and test away.  I've been building test machines for the Butch lafonte Group for the last few years.  If this works I'll build two more, one for Butch and one for another guy in our group.  We'll do many tests, so you will hear about it.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: sterlinga on January 10, 2008, 04:25:17 AM
Hey Dusty,

Way to go.  You going to be the first one will all parts installed, first to test the replication?  We'll be anxiously watching. 

Do me a favor and drop me a line directly when you post your results and video, so I can feature it.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:OC_MPMM_Magnet_Motor#Replications (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:OC_MPMM_Magnet_Motor#Replications)

Sterling {at} pureenergysystems.com
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: TheOne on January 10, 2008, 04:32:50 AM
Dusty:

Nice work on your motor, really looks good :)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: magpower on January 10, 2008, 04:39:35 AM
This is what I am doing tonight. Base is Jason's and rotor not yet. Loaded the stator at first peg but was to close, so went out 20mm and now to far, so going to try 10mm from Jason's peg marks. Just waiting for real parts but need to play. all parts form HDD, and computer drives for now.

Wayne


Nice work Dusty
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: hydrocontrol on January 10, 2008, 04:50:51 AM
Dusty,
 Way to go.. That is looking like a winner.. :o  Now if it will only work like one... ;)
Looks like I will not get some shop time till Saturday  :'( and mine will not even come close to looking as good as yours or Sean's. Not much I can do about that as development $$ is tight so Poly cutting board is cheaper than nice clear lexan. It is sad to have the magnets but not the setup and I'm sure you guys are equally sad to have the setup and not the magnets. At least it looks like Dusty may have the first go at it with the proper magnets tomorrow.. Best of luck.. Looking forward to the results..

TomG
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 10, 2008, 05:11:46 AM
@mikeytown2,

The true story is this. @alsetalonkin posted only one video, the one we now know, and left it for a very limited time, on the order of 40-50min and then removed it. He says that he posted it only because I've pissed him off. Therefore, had I not pissed him off we wouldn't have known of this video. Can there be anything more ridiculous than this? In addition, someone is adamantly accusing him of fraud and has already posted two videos on youtube to that effect, cursing and frothing at the mouth, but @alsetalonkin seems to like it and says he kinda agrees with him. That's bizarre, to say the least. Anyway, my setup is also coming along. The magnets and the rc helicopter bearings will arrive tomorrow, I hope, and the parts will be ready any moment and, hopefully, I'll also be ready to report results soon.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: TheOne on January 10, 2008, 05:41:26 AM
lol look at this guys

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uJy21fXhZMQ
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: oak on January 10, 2008, 05:43:47 AM
In the event you skilled replicators don't get the same result as alsetalokin (i.e., acceleration), one thing to consider may be rotor weight, which will affect torque.  In the Steorn forum, "korkscrew" posted this today, in response to a comment by alsetalokin:

alsetalokin: "@k: ... so it sort of rocks back and forth in speed until both units are fully synched. Am I making myself clear here."

[korkscrew:]  Crystal clear. Expected even. It happens with any phase locked system. It also suggests some kind of resonance which would be why the system would prefer a narow range of speeds and fall apart quickly as it moves away from that range.
   That's why I think the relationship between the stator mass and the force of the magnets is critical. I expect most of the replications to fail due to not getting this relationship right. I'm thinking you got very close by accident.

 http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=59687&page=25#Item_38
--------------------------------------------

I do wish you all the greatest success.

    Oak
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Dansway on January 10, 2008, 05:51:22 AM
Quote
lol look at this guys

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uJy21fXhZMQ

I would not even give this "dork" the time of day!  Look up "fool" in the dictionary and you'll see this guy's picture.

 ::)
Dan
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: oak on January 10, 2008, 06:12:59 AM
Wayne (magpower), beautiful job with your rig.  I'm curious, however, how the rotor magnets are attached.  If your rig does start to accelerate like alsetalokin's, might you have flying bullets?

(I work in the area of labor safety, so I worry about things like that.)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: pinoyz on January 10, 2008, 06:31:10 AM
We recently stroke a deal with such company to build their antenna on our property and pay us a monthly rent for that. So, you say, had we found a proper device we could also steal energy from that. But that's stealing (forgive the frank language) while I think what we're working on is producing energy from nothing. Anyway, just a little friendly chit-chat now while waiting for the magnets.  My friend already started the lathing an milling, the magnets and the bearings will arrive soon and it'll be seen shortly what we're facing.

Apparently far back when they first started transmitting TV signals, people found a way of tapping power off it, but the way that the TV stations found out was that the signal was not reaching the whole area that it was meant too reach, this was because the buggers were tapping it for power and draining the signal before it got that far hehe  ;D

So you cannot really call this FREE ENERGY as it is being created from another source anyway.

It is illegal to do this BTW and I would not advise to have a go :)

Take a motor and get it to increase the speed of a Rotor from 1000rpm to 4000 rpm, it will take current to start that motor, it will take current to get it too that 4000rpm speed. That requires energy, but if AL's Rig has found a away of doing it without anything but the magnets then we Defo got something interesting here!




Hello im new here in this forum ,this is my first message on this forum :)
I think the external energy came from the transformer of the floresent lamp. You can hear that in video humming..., even in the start of the video,
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: oak on January 10, 2008, 06:40:52 AM
Hi pinoyz.  I don't have the expertise to know whether that theory is plausible.  I do know that alsetalokin is interested in ruling out all possible artificial causes of the acceleration.  Have you tried to post the idea in one of the Steorn forum threads, where he is active?  Or if you can't post there, would you like for me to post it there?

  Oak

ETA:  I will note that alsetalokin did say he got the device running in two different locations -- where he lives, and in the lab where he works.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: pinoyz on January 10, 2008, 07:05:42 AM
Hi pinoyz.  I don't have the expertise to know whether that theory is plausible.  I do know that alsetalokin is interested in ruling out all possible artificial causes of the acceleration.  Have you tried to post the idea in one of the Steorn forum threads, where he is active?  Or if you can't post there, would you like for me to post it there?

  Oak

ETA:  I will note that alsetalokin did say he got the device running in two different locations -- where he lives, and in the lab where he works.


I also read Steorn forum threads too many discusion there, so read only the coment of alsetalokin. I read one of his post about his lamp, but now icant find that coz too many post. so is he say run the device in his home and lab, did he mention what lamp he using? in that 2 location..
But anyway, if it is running using external energy or run by itself is stil great invention, a compact of this can power handheld device, dont you think.......
Hope replicator's succeed....... :)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Dom on January 10, 2008, 07:06:01 AM
Quote
lol look at this guys

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uJy21fXhZMQ

I would not even give this "dork" the time of day!  Look up "fool" in the dictionary and you'll see this guy's picture.

 ::)
Dan

Yeah I'm weary now of people posting and retrieving the post right after, I for one wouldn't do it, because it damn upsets people, and it's very mean and dishonest, but their time will come one day, if not in this life, definitely in the next.

Not all the people here are glueless, they do experiments and like to see if indeed there are anomalies.

here's my setup almost finished, not quite like the video, but I couldn't get it to run like his, so good luck to the goodmen out there.

Love

Dom
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: jcims on January 10, 2008, 08:23:44 AM
Well,  I'm all ready for testing tomorrow.

Hi Dusty!

Great work!  The rig looks like it would stop incoming artillery while generating power.

I just noticed that your stators were setup according to the first CAD drawings floating around.  Here's a top-down pic of Al's rotor, and you can see there are only two open spots between the dampers and the flanking stators.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/sl2.jpg)  (apologies to Sean for hotlinking image)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: jcims on January 10, 2008, 08:24:30 AM
Well,  I'm all ready for testing tomorrow.

Hi Dusty!

Great work!  The rig looks like it would stop incoming artillery while generating power.

I just noticed that your stators were setup according to the first CAD drawings floating around.  Here's a top-down pic of Al's rotor, and you can see there are only two open spots between the dampers and the flanking stators.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/sl2.jpg) 
(apologies to Clanzerfor hotlinking image)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: oak on January 10, 2008, 08:32:29 AM
Hi pinoyz.  I don't have the expertise to know whether that theory is plausible.  I do know that alsetalokin is interested in ruling out all possible artificial causes of the acceleration.  Have you tried to post the idea in one of the Steorn forum threads, where he is active?  Or if you can't post there, would you like for me to post it there?

  Oak

ETA:  I will note that alsetalokin did say he got the device running in two different locations -- where he lives, and in the lab where he works.


I also read Steorn forum threads too many discusion there, so read only the coment of alsetalokin. I read one of his post about his lamp, but now icant find that coz too many post. so is he say run the device in his home and lab, did he mention what lamp he using? in that 2 location..
But anyway, if it is running using external energy or run by itself is stil great invention, a compact of this can power handheld device, dont you think.......
Hope replicator's succeed....... :)

Pinoyz, I just posted the following there:

Hi Alsetalokin. On the overunity.com forum, a suggestion was made that perhaps the florescent lighting?s transformer ? which can be heard in the video ? is a source of external energy feeding the device.
I don't have the expertise to know whether that theory is plausible, but am curious what you think of it.
You did say, if I recall correctly, that you were able to get the device running both at your home and in the lab where you work. Do both locations have similar lighting?
Thanks very much.

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60132&page=14#Item_3
-----------------------

It seems pretty quiet in the forum right now, and it's 2:30 a.m. for Alsetalokin (he's somewhere in eastern Canada), so he may not answer for several hours.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: vipond50 on January 10, 2008, 08:34:07 AM
Hey Guys,

I spoke with the owner of A & W Bearings and Supply Co.
1-936-564-4810

Ask for Mike Butler 

He knows all about the magnet motor and has all the drawings.

Bearings for the Stator Magnets:
Part number = R3
Size is 1/2" OD
3/16" ID
1/8" Thickness
Price is $2.40 each, Package of 10
= $24.40
Steel Bearing
RPM rated:
With Grease 41,000 RPM's
With Oil 48,000 RPM's   ;D
No Seal (Less friction)

Bearing for Rotor Stator
1/2" OD
1/4" ID
1/8" Thickness (times 2.  One on top and one on bottom.)
No Flange
$1.50 each per package of 10 =
$10.50 
Same type and rating as above.

For flanged, he is pricing tomorrow.  Shipping is added and is subject to where you live, and how you want it shipped, etc.

Mike is excited about this project.

Cheers,
Bruce

Thanks Bruce
I did not have a chance to do any calling today, but will give Mike a call tomorrow and discuss the bearing spec. Will more than likely source the package and also source SS as well.

Thx
Bill
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 10, 2008, 08:56:41 AM
@oak,

This theory is very unlikely. Nevertheless, you may check that I proposed to @alsetalonkin to place his device in a Faraday cage, just before he released the video. That'll take care forever of this problem mentioned occasionally here and there. As a matter of fact @alsetalonkin promised to present a new, longer video the week following the week he released his first video. To no avail, though. I should also mention that your point regarding the rotor mass that seconds @korkscrew's point that "the relationship between the stator mass and the force of the magnets is critical" is quite important, I think. Therefore, several of us here have emphasized the importance of exact replication first, before making any modifications. It may turn out that we would need to know some more subtle details of the working model. Was the motor presented in the video the only working motor, I didn't catch that? I know @alsetalonking dismisses the suggestion for an exact replication but was there another one working? It should be noted that for the first time someone claiming such working motor is hanging around, answering questions regarding his creation. That was the reason I decided to leave the Steorn forum to not get accused that he disappeared because of me. So far there were numerous instances whereby constructors of such devices disappeared without a trace. Take Torbay or @xpenzif and even one Mike who claimed successful reproduction of Bedini motor who hung around for a while getting everybody enthused (tens of people and even probably more began replicating his device) only to disappear suddenly without a trace. Hope we're facing a different situation this time and many of those who decided to give it a tryl will achieve to see what @alsetalonkin demonstrated in his video.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 10, 2008, 09:03:37 AM
@pinoyz,

Make no mistake. If this or a similar device runs on external energy then it isn't a great invention at all and at most will only be a marginal curiosity. However, if it does what we see in the video and we can reproduce it, then it most likely runs powered by energy produced from within and deserves most serious attention and studies for a definitive confirmation for science to accept it.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: oak on January 10, 2008, 09:08:32 AM
Omni, looking at the photos Al took, it appears he may have had one or two other rigs he had started on (not identical to the one that is being discussed), but from everything he's said it appears there is only one working model.  (Whatever "working" means -- and like you I hope it means OU.)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 10, 2008, 09:26:12 AM
@oak,

That's my impression too. My guess is this has been some kind of a serendipitous coincidence of circumstances plus the error he inadvertently made to turn one of the stators in the "wrong" direction. If the effect (OU) he presents in the video is confirmed this "error" leading to success will remain as one more curiosity in the history of technology. Hope replications run easier this time than what we know usually happens. I will never forget how Torbay couldn't reproduce and couldn't demonstrate his own motor to work when he came to New York. Prior to that I had the assurances of a high Argentinean official whose office has been funding the project that he has seen it work for a long time (months). Recall the most recent replication that went awry--that of @xpenzif. These are very tricky contraptions whereby it's very hard to avoid minute flaws in timing or weights and proportions crucial for them to run as OU. Most of the time the constructors aren't open enough (and even not at all) and thus hurt their cause big time--think of Steorn, Perendev, Lego etc. and the latest, @xpenzif, who didn't even bother to instruct the people trying to replicate it that the cylinder must have 14 diagonal rows and must be placed on an 8-barrier stepper motor.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: SameCoin on January 10, 2008, 09:27:21 AM
I would sugest using a micro lubricant, and it would reduce friction considerable even over oil. Also some micro lubricants are designed to move towards heat, so will last and maintain the reduced friction longer.

every little bit helps.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 10, 2008, 09:28:55 AM
@SameCoin,

Any suggestion of a brand and where to get it?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: robbie47 on January 10, 2008, 09:41:51 AM

Hi CLaNZeR,
The dampers are on the 2 of the 13 predrilled holes flanking the stator.

Also see alsetalokin's post
"...And one more time: 6061-T6 extruded aluminum bar stock, machined to the exact dimensions of the stator magnets (except I really did use a 3/16 hole, the magnets are a bit bigger here), spaced and oriented by trial and error, and in my unit, the pre-drilled holes for the stator magnets seemed close enough to the sweet positions so I just used them."

I hope this helps

Confirmed by Al last night at the Steorn forum:

There was an adjustment process that took a couple hours to find the sweet spot and the orientation, and it seemed so close to an already drilled and tapped set of holes in the base, that I just used the existing holes, even though the positioning wasn't totally optimum. It seems to do what I intended. I never anticipated the need for these dampers when I was laying out the unit

Sorry about my distracting posting on page 14 of this thread on this damper topic.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: pinoyz on January 10, 2008, 09:42:18 AM
Hi pinoyz.  I don't have the expertise to know whether that theory is plausible.  I do know that alsetalokin is interested in ruling out all possible artificial causes of the acceleration.  Have you tried to post the idea in one of the Steorn forum threads, where he is active?  Or if you can't post there, would you like for me to post it there?

  Oak

ETA:  I will note that alsetalokin did say he got the device running in two different locations -- where he lives, and in the lab where he works.


I also read Steorn forum threads too many discusion there, so read only the coment of alsetalokin. I read one of his post about his lamp, but now icant find that coz too many post. so is he say run the device in his home and lab, did he mention what lamp he using? in that 2 location..
But anyway, if it is running using external energy or run by itself is stil great invention, a compact of this can power handheld device, dont you think.......
Hope replicator's succeed....... :)

Pinoyz, I just posted the following there:

Hi Alsetalokin. On the overunity.com forum, a suggestion was made that perhaps the florescent lighting?s transformer ? which can be heard in the video ? is a source of external energy feeding the device.
I don't have the expertise to know whether that theory is plausible, but am curious what you think of it.
You did say, if I recall correctly, that you were able to get the device running both at your home and in the lab where you work. Do both locations have similar lighting?
Thanks very much.

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60132&page=14#Item_3
-----------------------

It seems pretty quiet in the forum right now, and it's 2:30 a.m. for Alsetalokin (he's somewhere in eastern Canada), so he may not answer for several hours.



Thank you for posting it.. with correct grammar  :) it just not good in english  ;D

@Replicator's
     If you tried it and it don't work then you can try the above theory...just addition for you to test....
@Omnibus
     I hope it will work w/out external energy..since its unique to other PM coz he using aluminum, and much more interesting than other PM motor


Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: hydrocontrol on January 10, 2008, 09:49:43 AM
ETA:  I will note that alsetalokin did say he got the device running in two different locations -- where he lives, and in the lab where he works.

Ouch.. I'm thinking the chances of sucessful replication just dropped like a rock. Does this mean (1). out of the 100 locations he tried to get it to work that it would only work  in two exact locations or (2). he has tried it in only at two locations and it worked both times... big difference... if it is (1) then the odds of getting a working replications just started getting off the scale. It can also mean the device has to be oriented a certain way like the counter-clockwise magnet has to facing north.

I suppose it could be syncing up with earth's magnetic field in some fashion and if that field varies then the motor becomes unsynced and slows down to a stop. Restarting then re-sync's it up to the new earth's field variant. Guess we will all know in a few days if this is going to be easy to replicate or not.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 10, 2008, 10:09:02 AM
Relax. I think he only tried it at two locations.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: SameCoin on January 10, 2008, 10:13:10 AM
A few are

Megapower penteraiting lube
x-1r
z-max

not sure which is best, and I think i am not recalling another.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: ebswift on January 10, 2008, 11:39:22 AM
That was the reason I decided to leave the Steorn forum to not get accused that he disappeared because of me.
You decided to leave because you were banned for being an arrogant prick and couldn't post anymore.  Perhaps nobody would bother posting that about you if you didn't lie about it or mention it at all.  That little badge of honour at the top of your profile belies nothing (and is reasonably difficult to earn):

http://www.steorn.com/forum/account.php?u=13411 (http://www.steorn.com/forum/account.php?u=13411)

At steorn you plagued the threads; here I'm trying to read what genuine replicators are working on and here you plague the threads.  I suspect you are waiting to pounce on the first successful replication so you can publish it everywhere and claim that your theories were right and you are vindicated and it couldn't have happened without you.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: pablo escobar on January 10, 2008, 12:22:47 PM
Good Luck Dusty!

I think the WhipMag designation is a little to esoteric.

If Dusty is successful, I respectfully petition to call it the Magnetic Flux Capacitor, or just the Flux Capacitor for short, in honor of AL's insistence that this isn't OU, but is just a novel form of something else, like energy storage....  "Back to the Future" comes to mind.

In addition, does anyone know if AL tried the following?

1.Attempt to  spin the other stators antigearwise instead of stopping them?
2.  Remove one or both of the stalled stators while the device is in sync?
3.  Add other stators to the system? Does it only work with the three?
4.  Instead of using the judsen dampers, increase the load on the rotor with weight or the RC prop?


And if the replicators are successful, as a woo woo piece of experimentation, I suggest adding to the rotor system high temperature superconductors.  Spinning superconductors in a magnetic field are theorized to exhibit anti-gravity properties.

If anyone wants to edit and or repost this on Stoern, be my guest.

PE
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: xumed on January 10, 2008, 01:22:28 PM
some great looking replicas here well done ! The original video was interesting. However being the skeptic that I am I'm going to stand by and say I think this will never work.

firstly I think it is too simple (not to say simple ideas are often the best)
secondly I think the acceleration is too fast in the video to be natural process as suggested
(I think there was a small DC motor under the rotor).
Lastly It wouldn't be difficult for the original maker to give exact specifications considering it is so simple and he hasn't. I mean a damn kitchen scale and ruler would do the job.

spacing, weight, friction, magnetic strength, (which DC motor is used :P ) there are too many variables. The idea of energy coming from the light is a bit far fetched unless he built a wireless power receiver unit under the rotor.

sorry about the negativity but being a engineering researcher no matter how interested I am in this topic and do believe that we can learn more still.

This is one idea that unfortunately is a little to good to be true, sorry for the bad grammar and the rambling. I do wish you all the best of luck with the replications, even if it only proves this is a fraud. fingers crossed it isn't for all our sakes.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: RunningBare on January 10, 2008, 01:33:46 PM
some great looking replicas here well done ! The original video was interesting. However being the skeptic that I am I'm going to stand by and say I think this will never work.

firstly I think it is too simple (not to say simple ideas are often the best)
secondly I think the acceleration is too fast in the video to be natural process as suggested
(I think there was a small DC motor under the rotor).
Lastly It wouldn't be difficult for the original maker to give exact specifications considering it is so simple and he hasn't. I mean a damn kitchen scale and ruler would do the job.

spacing, weight, friction, magnetic strength, (which DC motor is used :P ) there are too many variables. The idea of energy coming from the light is a bit far fetched unless he built a wireless power receiver unit under the rotor.

sorry about the negativity but being a engineering researcher no matter how interested I am in this topic and do believe that we can learn more still.

This is one idea that unfortunately is a little to good to be true, sorry for the bad grammar and the rambling. I do wish you all the best of luck with the replications, even if it only proves this is a fraud. fingers crossed it isn't for all our sakes.

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocplans.html
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: ken_nyus on January 10, 2008, 01:43:48 PM
I was reading through alsetalonkin's posts last night on the Steorn forum, and I thought I was picking up hints from him that static electricity may have something(maybe everything?) to do with the operation of the unit.

Al seems to be quite an expert on building electro-static machines, and mentioned having a set of videos on youtube demonstrating some of his machines (including some corona motors), which he says he took down after the uproar started with this video. He mentioned that it would not be far fetched at all to have a simple flick of the wrist or two generate a very large charge that would keep a motor spinning for a very long time.

Just something to think about.



Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: ken_nyus on January 10, 2008, 01:44:33 PM
[edit dup post]
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 10, 2008, 02:15:49 PM
Hi Al,

Is this in effect a protracted smot ramp? basically climbing until it reaches equilibrium? That would explain the acceleration and many other attributes displayed. If you will... imagine a ball moving up a smot ramp with a harness pulling a cog that is turning a gear that rotates the wheel. I may be wrong in so many ways but it just came to mind and I thought I might ask.

Cheers,

Dean
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: ken_nyus on January 10, 2008, 02:37:11 PM
Here is the most complete collection of photos that I have seen:

http://www.ospmm.com/whipmag/

The captions were provided by Al.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: SoeN on January 10, 2008, 02:38:28 PM
@pablo escobar

Weird, I just want to post these questions No. 1,2 dan 3 to Steorn forum while I'm waiting for approval of my signup... ???

Good Luck Dusty!

I think the WhipMag designation is a little to esoteric.

If Dusty is successful, I respectfully petition to call it the Magnetic Flux Capacitor, or just the Flux Capacitor for short, in honor of AL's insistence that this isn't OU, but is just a novel form of something else, like energy storage....  "Back to the Future" comes to mind.

In addition, does anyone know if AL tried the following?

1.Attempt to  spin the other stators antigearwise instead of stopping them?
2.  Remove one or both of the stalled stators while the device is in sync?
3.  Add other stators to the system? Does it only work with the three?
4.  Instead of using the judsen dampers, increase the load on the rotor with weight or the RC prop?


And if the replicators are successful, as a woo woo piece of experimentation, I suggest adding to the rotor system high temperature superconductors.  Spinning superconductors in a magnetic field are theorized to exhibit anti-gravity properties.

If anyone wants to edit and or repost this on Stoern, be my guest.

PE
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: txghia58 on January 10, 2008, 03:00:43 PM
If it does work (and I hope it does as I have allready ordered magnets myself) would it  not be possible to test if it can pproduce work by place a set of coils over the top of the device.

Are the pdf plans that some on here has allready produced (Sorry I forget your handle) are they to scale ie able to be printed and glued to some plexiglass so that someone with only access to basic tools like a table saw and a drill press could reproduce it??

If so when I make mine I will produce complete step by step construction and assembly instruction and post them on make.com.


Magnet arive on friday and work begins on the construction saturday.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: RunningBare on January 10, 2008, 03:08:24 PM
If it does work (and I hope it does as I have allready ordered magnets myself) would it  not be possible to test if it can pproduce work by place a set of coils over the top of the device.



It is quite likely that coils will affect the magnetic fields involved, this is why I suggested in another post replacing the dampers with a coil and a load attached, this would give both damping effect and enable load measurement.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Prophmaji on January 10, 2008, 03:19:52 PM
Hi Al,

Is this in effect a protracted smot ramp? basically climbing until it reaches equilibrium? That would explain the acceleration and many other attributes displayed. If you will... imagine a ball moving up a smot ramp with a harness pulling a cog that is turning a gear that rotates the wheel. I may be wrong in so many ways but it just came to mind and I thought I might ask.

Cheers,

Dean


to me, (I've no idea what a smot is) it appears to be a difference in angular velocity, momentum, inertia, etc, with respects to the differences between the smaller mass of the main rotor's magnetic field versus the larger field mass of the smaller magnet-all of that tied to the AC values and their interaction with one another.

I also suspect a slow ramp up to equilibrium. Then it halts.

Then start it again, if the magnets have survived.

I know that what sterling published on his website, that I sent him - seems to contradict the above, but it does not. The two are the same, but with this component mentioned here-left out.

This very consideration was and is one of the main reasons to design and utilize a 'dyno pit'.

Dyno pits are for testing Dyno motors..for runaway acceleration. Which..when the field considerations of the motor are laid out  for maximum efficiency, exactly this situation in the video can happen. And up to and over 100k rpm..as the motor explodes. Violently.

In the case of the given video here, the frictive losses and overall design create a 'slow ramp' situation up to a limit imposed by said losses.

Jut my two cents, only part may be true.

The vortextral balancing act of what an atomic structure is, ie, Oscillating 2-D planar field interactions of 'vortex in-vortex out'..to create the 3-D universe of the given resultant vectors and all the components of this 'world'.....this balanced dual vortex, in equilibrium, requires brute force and/or resonance to break it (gyroscopic equilibrium), but localized attempts at bleeding energy off the 2-d field interaction balancing act, may not be all that fruitful, unless this vortex consideration is understood and taken into account. The vortexes in balance are fed from outside their localized areas, as they exist due to Oscillating 2-D planar field interaction. Which is why it is difficult to get them off balance and why the energy levels observed are so high (how much is released, or how much required to break) when they are cracked into being off balance.

If one fully analyzes all known phenomena, of any kind -real or suspected-  they all fit the Oscillating 2-D planar field model. Up to and including all aspects of multi-dimensionality and all observed psychic phenomena. Do not ignore these two little paragraphs written here. :)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 10, 2008, 03:21:28 PM
@ebswift,

Don?t plague the thread with your lies. I was the one to leave as seen here: http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60135&page=1#Item_4 .Obviously, it couldn?t have been possible to post that if I were banned. Also, read carefully who attacked who and who was really calling names. Follow the link @oak and I posted in that Steorn thread. What nerve.

You plague the thread also with stupid suppositions such as this: ?[that I will] claim that [my] theories were right and [I am] vindicated and it couldn't have happened without [me].? While I will always claim that I have already definitively shown through a rigorous argument that CoE can be violated through discontinuous production of excess energy (energy out of nothing) it is really ugly and impudent to suggest that I will claim that constructing a device producing excess energy continuously couldn?t have happened without me. Restrain yourself from such presumptuous statements. Only a fool can suggest what you?ve written.

I would not have posted this if I were not provoked by the above ominous lies and innuendo.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 10, 2008, 03:39:57 PM
@xume,

To be skeptical when seeing such a demo is one thing but to suggest that hidden small DC motor is the cause for what?s observed is suugesting outright fraud. The best, I think, is to approach this unassuming and do what most of us are trying to do here?replicate the device and see for ourselves whether or not we?ll observe the acceleration demonstrated in the video..
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: starcruiser on January 10, 2008, 04:07:08 PM
More people trying to disuade us from building a potential operating device. Seems to be a trend when we start to get close to something.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: magpower on January 10, 2008, 04:20:58 PM
@oak,

That's my impression too. My guess is this has been some kind of a serendipitous coincidence of circumstances plus the error he inadvertently made to turn one of the stators in the "wrong" direction. If the effect (OU) he presents in the video is confirmed this "error" leading to success will remain as one more curiosity in the history of technology. Hope replications run easier this time than what we know usually happens. I will never forget how Torbay couldn't reproduce and couldn't demonstrate his own motor to work when he came to New York. Prior to that I had the assurances of a high Argentinean official whose office has been funding the project that he has seen it work for a long time (months). Recall the most recent replication that went awry--that of @xpenzif. These are very tricky contraptions whereby it's very hard to avoid minute flaws in timing or weights and proportions crucial for them to run as OU. Most of the time the constructors aren't open enough (and even not at all) and thus hurt their cause big time--think of Steorn, Perendev, Lego etc. and the latest, @xpenzif, who didn't even bother to instruct the people trying to replicate it that the cylinder must have 14 diagonal rows and must be placed on an 8-barrier stepper motor.

@ Omnibus
Not to change the topic here but have a question about xpenzif motor. I am confused by what you said here and could if possible draw out something. I did spent allot of time on this and even made a flat track and could not find how this was possible. The flat track did work at some sort but only with helper magnets, this stepper motor thing, was it used to offset the timing on upper rotor.


Back on topic with mine test last night and did not run as is. One note is the mass or weight of rotor is important for the start up. So I recommend not to use light weight rotor. I will re cut mine today I hope. I think Dusty has the best chance right now. More later

Wayne
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 10, 2008, 04:34:43 PM
@magpower,

I'm still very much interested in @xpenzif motor but I'm afraid extensive discussion on that would distract us from the current effort. Nevertheless, let me ask you, did you try it with an 8-barrier stepper motor and 14 diagonal rows on the cylinder? It appears that the fact that for each distance between two barriers of the motor there are 1.75 distances between the maximums of the cylinder is of importance. I really wish this can be modeled through finite element method to get a clearer understanding of the correct geometries. I don't know whether code for such simulation exists and one has to sit down and write it himself. Hope we'll talk more about @xpenzif's device a bit later.

As for @alsetalonkin's device it was mentioned more than once that exact weight of the rotor, magnet strength, exact geometries may turn to be crucial factors, as is usual in such replications, so we have to try to be as close to the original as possible if the replication is to be successful.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: ken_nyus on January 10, 2008, 04:48:10 PM
And if Electro-static forces are coming into play, even the choice of delrin/nylon, will be important.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: magpower on January 10, 2008, 04:54:33 PM
@magpower,

I'm still very much interested in @xpenzif motor but I'm afraid extensive discussion on that would distract us from the current effort. Nevertheless, let me ask you, did you try it with an 8-barrier stepper motor and 14 diagonal rows on the cylinder? It appears that the fact that for each distance between two barriers of the motor there are 1.75 distances between the maximums of the cylinder is of importance. I really wish this can be modeled through finite element method to get a clearer understanding of the correct geometries. I don't know whether code for such simulation exists and one has to sit down and write it himself. Hope we'll talk more about @xpenzif's device a bit later.

As for @alsetalonkin's device it was mentioned more than once that exact weight of the rotor, magnet strength, exact geometries may turn to be crucial factors, as is usual in such replications, so we have to try to be as close to the original as possible if the replication is to be successful.

@ Omnibus
From memory I think I used 14 diag rows on main cylinder, but no stepper motor, just a free wheel hub. I guess I don't know what is a 8- barrier stepper motor, never heard of this before, but we should not talk on this board topic and can send me a message or talk later, might not matter if this OC motor works out.

Thks
Wayne
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: biznesses on January 10, 2008, 05:29:05 PM
i am modeling this assembly in cad.  What I am a little confused about is how he fastens everything down.  Especially the rotating magnets on the outside.  I was thinking a turned down shaft and a snap ring on top to keep it from slipping off.  What is the shaft made of?  Brass or SS?  Also, what is that red disk on top of the rotor?  Does it have any significance?  There are some details here that haven't been figured out.

SeanB
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: twosox on January 10, 2008, 05:38:36 PM
the red disk is a plastic type pulley, he called it a 'Friction testing pulley' poss to simulate a load on the spindle once connected to something.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 10, 2008, 05:50:49 PM
Another Update from me :)

Two pictures below showing the Dampners that I lathed down to 12.7mm * 6.4 depth.

The second pictures show the positions of all 3 of the Stator Magnets now. Will need to replace the Polycarbonate dummy's for the real; stator magnets when they arrive.

I will adjust the height of the Dampners and the Rotor to suit the Stator magnets when ready to go!

Have started milling out second Rotor to fit the 5mm Rod Magnets I have coming, but also thx to Craigy I now have some 6mm Rod Magnets on there way :). So plenty to play with hopefully.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/damp1.jpg)

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/damp2.jpg)

Cheers

Sean.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: RunningBare on January 10, 2008, 05:50:59 PM
Ok, I'm going to post it again, virtually all the information needed is here http://www.ospmm.com/whipmag/ (http://www.ospmm.com/whipmag/)

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: RunningBare on January 10, 2008, 05:52:31 PM
@Clanzer

Your work is fantastic, I envy you, I wish I had your resources, I look forward to your results.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 10, 2008, 05:57:24 PM
@Clanzer

Your work is fantastic, I envy you, I wish I had your resources, I look forward to your results.

Thx RunningBare.

Well a few years ago I had a choice, spend all me heard earned money on Booze and holidays, or start kitting out me little workshop LOL

I am glad I went for the Latter!!!

Must admit not had a holiday for a few years though hehe

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 10, 2008, 05:57:24 PM
@CLaNZeR,

You may have said it already but I've missed it, did you try measuring the rpm when spinning it by hand and what's the wind down time with and without the magnets?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 10, 2008, 06:00:55 PM
@CLaNZeR,

You may have said it already but I've missed it, did you try measuring the rpm when spinning it by hand and what's the wind down time with and without the magnets?

Hi Omnibus

No not yet. I will do all that when I am happy that the height adjustments are all in place and I have everything ready to go.
Then I can do a spreadsheet showing the Dummy Runs and loaded runs with speed against time.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Charlie_V on January 10, 2008, 06:31:29 PM
Hey guys,

I don't have a lot of time to post this since I'm on my lunch break and my salad is getting cold... hehe.  All the effort here is really good.  This setup reminds me of Jon Depew's work with his magnetic gears and equilibrius grid: 

http://www.coralcastlecode.com/id28.html

Many months ago Jon posted that he had stumbled upon a great discovery (about the same time he blocked my AIM name because I suppose I was sending him too many messages :( .)  Anyhow, I wonder if he discovered something similar to this motor?  I think Jon describes the spinning gears as a resonant expanding magnetic field.  Perhaps the counter spinning magnet causes a resonant collapsing field which imbalances the wheel and causes it to lock into motion?  My salad is now completely cold!

Keep up the good work,
Charlie
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: MeggerMan on January 10, 2008, 07:02:44 PM
Hi Everyone,
I phoned e-magnets in the UK today and if we can get a big enough order together then they can get some diametrically magnetised disk magnets (not rings) made up. So what they have on their website they can magnetise diametrically, but only as a one off.
http://e-magnetsuk.com/magnet_products
They have 10,12,15,19,20,22,25,40mm dia and thickness of various sizes from 0.4mm to 10mm
The lead time is a couple of weeks though.

One interesting comment the sales person mentioned was that Neodymium Iron Boron (NdFeB) magnets are extremly difficult to demagnetise using another magnet.  Other magnets like alnico need to have a keeper to retain their magnetic strength.
Only heat and physically knocking a Neodymium will effect it.
N42 are ok up 80C.
Also they have some high temp N33 suitable for 200C, BUT and this is a big one, these are even harder to demagnetise in a demagnetising unit.
He said they had two very large cyclinder magnets in a vertical tube and they are apposing each other field wise, 8 inches apart and have been that way for 3 years. He said if the field strength was going to reduce, the gap would have reduced but it has not.
So therefore, I very much doubt that AL's setup will degrade the magnets even after running for months on end.
I remember reading that to demagnetise a Neodymium you need to overpower the existing field in the magnet with a stronger field in the apposing direction and with the rotor and stator gap being about 5mm or more, then this is not likely to happen.

I have had an email back from K&J magnetics in the US and they have the following in stock that I enquired about:
R834DIA
D22
D48
D4C

They have to state the exact value on the customs label and they cannot mark it as a gift, so try and keep your value below the 18GBP limit unless you are made of money.

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 10, 2008, 07:17:03 PM
Thx Rob for the Info.

A follow upto that is a Interesting post from Andy (NEO) of at Steorn today.

***********
I wouldn't expect any depletion in the current set up. The materials stability in terms of shape, coercivity and airgap will make them virtually impossible to lose any power. Only elevated temperatures above 120 deg c and high, stray, electro-magnetic fields in the order or 2 Tesla reversed through the sample will relax the domains. The action of the stator's alternating polarity on the rotor will have no effect in terms of losses.
Anisotropic Sintered diametrically magnetised NdFeB is relatively new in terms of particle alignment during the pressing cycle in that phase. Isotropic Bonded NdFeB materials (10 mgo) are more common for applications requiring this type of orientation. This may be relevent in terms of power to weight (torque) ratio of 35 + mgo materials. Anyway, well done so far, I'm sure the effect will help with continued study in this area.

There will be Bonded Neodymium version / experiment happening in the next couple of days.
***********
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: ken_nyus on January 10, 2008, 07:26:44 PM
I also remember reading somewhere on this forum, about a forum member who has kept two magnets clamped togther in replusion for almost a year(?) now, and with his measurements there has been no difference in the strength of the magnets. Don't have the reference handy but that is what I remember.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: ebswift on January 10, 2008, 10:11:43 PM
Omnibus, keep playing out your fantasy role playing game.  Funny the thread you pointed to was a whole thread devoted to banning you.  None of the people you pointed the finger at were banned.  If you don't say things like 'I decided to leave' then nobody would bother bringing this up.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Jdo300 on January 10, 2008, 10:15:28 PM
Omnibus, keep playing out your fantasy role playing game.  Funny the thread you pointed to was a whole thread devoted to banning you.  None of the people you pointed the finger at were banned.  If you don't say things like 'I decided to leave' then nobody would bother bringing this up.

Not to play referee here but in the interest of keeping the clutter in this thread to a minimum, would those who want to pick a bone keep it to PMs? I would rather read posts about people's build updates than this stuff.

Thank you,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: hydrocontrol on January 10, 2008, 10:17:18 PM
I second that..
Not to play referee here but in the interest of keeping the clutter in this thread to a minimum, would those who want to pick a bone keep it to PMs? I would rather read posts about people's build updates than this stuff.
Thank you,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 10, 2008, 10:23:15 PM
@ebswift,

Quote
Omnibus, keep playing out your fantasy role playing game.  Funny the thread you pointed to was a whole thread devoted to banning you.  None of the people you pointed the finger at were banned.  If you don't say things like 'I decided to leave' then nobody would bother bringing this up.

In the name of the current efforts, not to distract attention, I?ll let this go and won?t characterize you the way you deserve. Unlike your insinuations, anyone who?s curious may see that I withdrew and to post my withdrawal I couldn?t have been banned: http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60135&page=1#Item_4 . Also, those who are curious may see for themselves who attacked who by following the links I gave, as well as the link @oak gave.

Stop cluttering the thread with your nonsense.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 10, 2008, 10:32:01 PM
I second that..
Not to play referee here but in the interest of keeping the clutter in this thread to a minimum, would those who want to pick a bone keep it to PMs? I would rather read posts about people's build updates than this stuff.
Thank you,
Jason O

I third that.

An idea, for you guys, is to open up a new thread, and call it debate.  This way any time people want to get into over something, they can take it there.  It works well on our TPU board.

Thank all of you, in advance for your courteous handling of this matter.

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 10, 2008, 10:38:08 PM
Hey guys,

I don't have a lot of time to post this since I'm on my lunch break and my salad is getting cold... hehe.  All the effort here is really good.  This setup reminds me of Jon Depew's work with his magnetic gears and equilibrius grid: 

http://www.coralcastlecode.com/id28.html

Many months ago Jon posted that he had stumbled upon a great discovery (about the same time he blocked my AIM name because I suppose I was sending him too many messages :( .)  Anyhow, I wonder if he discovered something similar to this motor?  I think Jon describes the spinning gears as a resonant expanding magnetic field.  Perhaps the counter spinning magnet causes a resonant collapsing field which imbalances the wheel and causes it to lock into motion?  My salad is now completely cold!

Keep up the good work,
Charlie
Ideas such as this one have long been known to float around. Observe the almost cult following Searl's motor has, a motor based on just the same principle as this one. The big difference in this case is that the constructor didn't go away, isn't hiding behind NDA's and hangs around to instruct how to replicate it. As seen from what he writes, that's because he doesn't believe for one second it's OU. His opinion won't matter, however, should this motor be shown ny independent parties to behave the way it behaves in the video. Replicating it by independent parties is the real achievement in these matters, as I've always said and insisted that those secretive dreamers are really hurting themselves. They are double losers--neither they will become rich nor the credit for creating such device will go to them.

@hydrocontrol,

That is a non-issue and shouldn't be debated at all. Let's all stick to the replicating efforts and try to ensure that many people will have working (OU) replicas of this device.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: ebswift on January 10, 2008, 10:38:52 PM
No problem Jason.  We had the same problem in the other forums with the omnibot.  I'll let the omnibot go.  I don't know who's picking bones though, I was picking a particular post that was an outright deceptive lie.  Or maybe this forum is the omnibot's place?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 10, 2008, 10:45:29 PM
@ebswift,

Stop cluttering the thread with your nonsense.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: ebswift on January 10, 2008, 10:48:23 PM
@ebswift,

Stop cluttering the thread with your nonsense.
@Omnibot,

I wasn't talking to you.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Charlie_V on January 10, 2008, 10:49:53 PM
I have a question which I'm sure has already been answered.  In the youtube video, when he stops the two magnets and the motor speeds up, I've heard it eventually slows to a stop.  However, what happens if he justs leaves all 3 stators spinning and does nothing, does the device slow down still or does it keep running an unknown amount of time?

Thanks,
Charlie
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: ebswift on January 10, 2008, 10:52:50 PM
I have a question which I'm sure has already been answered.  In the youtube video, when he stops the two magnets and the motor speeds up, I've heard it eventually slows to a stop.  However, what happens if he justs leaves all 3 stators spinning and does nothing, does the device slow down still or does it keep running an unknown amount of time?

Thanks,
Charlie
From what I've gathered from what Al's been saying, it runs for an unknown amount of time, just as it does with the two stators stopped.  It just runs slower.  Further tests may show other differences, but time will tell.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 10, 2008, 11:00:22 PM
I have a question which I'm sure has already been answered.  In the youtube video, when he stops the two magnets and the motor speeds up, I've heard it eventually slows to a stop.  However, what happens if he justs leaves all 3 stators spinning and does nothing, does the device slow down still or does it keep running an unknown amount of time?

Thanks,
Charlie
That's the big question here. I have remained with the impression that it has carried on at that higher speed for three hours without decelerating and then it has stopped for unknown reason. This is one important thing to be verified after replicating the effect from the video. I wouldn't even stop the two stators, I'd have it, as you mention, with all three stators rotating and will try to monitor the rpm as a function of time till it stops abruptly after the 3 hour run (that's the time @alsetalonkin says it has run for unattended, without external energy supply). I would be impressed if it continues to spin for three hours without external supply, let alone if that spinning would be at constant rate. Any of this would point to OU. Also, in addition to the Faraday cage which I will place the device, to kill all these ridiculous proposals for tapping into extraneous EM fields, I'll mount the rotor first to a DC motor and will run it at 300rpm (the rotation rate when spinning it by hand) and then at 1200rpm (the rotation rate due to the effect). The product of the current and voltage I'd measure in those two cases will give me an indication for the power generated from within, coming out of nothing.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: yaz on January 10, 2008, 11:00:23 PM

Another easy to find source for rotor and/or stator bearings are those tiny bearings at the end of a router bit. They're good for up to 25,000 rpm and they sure can take a beating!
Had to replace some last year and they only cost about $2 each. Bought them at the local woodworking store. 
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 10, 2008, 11:08:18 PM
I ordered my bearings today.  I chose the flanged ones for the center rotor.  A tad more expensive but probably will be worth it.  Add a few drops of oil and they are good to 48,000 rpm's.  I was already speaking with the bearing guy about future upgrades, and once the unit is actually up and running, we hope to replace all of the bearings, first thing, with precision bearings.  Rated rpm's about 100,000.  It simply means less friction. 

But we want to use the same type of everything to start with.  Get it running first, before changing anything!  ;)

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 10, 2008, 11:11:53 PM
Can't agree mote. Get it running first. Just curious, how much are those precision bearings?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Charlie_V on January 10, 2008, 11:43:43 PM
So it only runs for 3 hours when all three stators are spinning then it slows down (coming to a stop) for unknown reasons?  Sorry just making sure I'm understanding this correctly.

If this is reproducible it sounds like an energy amplifier - it must take energy to make energy haha. 

Thanks,
Charlie
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 10, 2008, 11:46:51 PM
So it only runs for 3 hours when all three stators are spinning then it slows down (coming to a stop) for unknown reasons?  Sorry just making sure I'm understanding this correctly.

If this is reproducible it sounds like an energy amplifier - it must take energy to make energy haha. 

Thanks,
Charlie
I don't know whether or not it decelerates and comes to a stop or it keeps spinning for 3 hours and then abruptly comes to a stop. Either way, more energy (energy out of nothing) is being produced than the energy put in, just as in SMOT.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: abassign on January 10, 2008, 11:51:38 PM
@Omnibus

After the motor stop, do you tray to restart it ? Is it restarted ?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: ebswift on January 11, 2008, 12:13:05 AM
So it only runs for 3 hours when all three stators are spinning then it slows down (coming to a stop) for unknown reasons?  Sorry just making sure I'm understanding this correctly.

If this is reproducible it sounds like an energy amplifier - it must take energy to make energy haha. 

Thanks,
Charlie
It is not as mysterious as it seems.  Al has seen the thing run over a period of three hours.  He has started it, gone to sleep, woke up and it has stopped.  He has mentioned that sometimes if a truck drives past and rattles the floorboards the thing loses sync.  Probably given the fact that the assembly runs noisily means it isn't running smoothly, therefore if everything was assembled with precise tolerances it would run for longer.  Because he is currently running various tests with the little time he has, he is utilising his time to get test results rather than going for duration tests.

Your best bet is to read it in his own words at the Steorn thread, then there's no risk of him being mis-quoted or second-guessed.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 11, 2008, 12:14:22 AM
Don't know these details. @alsetalonkin is very frugal in explaining these issues. He also promised to show another, longer video with a better lighting but never did. We would have to find the answers to these questions ourselves. My magnets arrived already, still waiting for the bearings and the parts won't be ready till Saturday at the earliest. Can't wait.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: g4macdad on January 11, 2008, 12:30:10 AM
@Omnibus

After the motor stop, do you tray to restart it ? Is it restarted ?
Discontinuous!? Start/stop!? This is beginning to sound familiar, and it's freaking me out! :o
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 11, 2008, 12:34:19 AM
@Omnibus

After the motor stop, do you tray to restart it ? Is it restarted ?
Discontinuous!? Start/stop!? This is beginning to sound familiar, and it's freaking me out! :o
Why? Aside from SMOT what else can do that? If you think that's nothing I'll give you a $10  bill in exchange for a $20 bill you'll hand me. And I'd like to do it more than once. Deal?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: MeggerMan on January 11, 2008, 12:37:43 AM
Did a quick simulation on the stator magnet sitting on the stator bearing to see how it effected the field from the diametrically polarised magnet.
The magnet is N50, but I suspect Al's motor uses N42 or thereabouts.
As you can see the field does pull downwards somewhat.
It would be good to see a 3D view but Femm 4 does not support it.
I cannot remember if Al said the stator was below or above the rotor magnet, because what he may have said is that it worked best if the stator magnet was higher than the rotor and therefore the fields would have lined up.


(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m25/kingrs/StatorWithSteelBearing.jpg)

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 11, 2008, 12:42:28 AM
You may kindly ask @Jdo300 to do it in Maxwell3D. He has a lot of experience with that. Don't think it's necessary right at this moment, though. This will take valuable time from his replication efforts.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: g4macdad on January 11, 2008, 12:51:25 AM
@Omnibus

After the motor stop, do you tray to restart it ? Is it restarted ?
Discontinuous!? Start/stop!? This is beginning to sound familiar, and it's freaking me out! :o
Why? Aside from SMOT what else can do that? If you think that's nothing I'll give you a $10  bill in exchange for a $20 bill you'll hand me. And I'd like to do it more than once. Deal?
Erm, Omnibus, I like you, and I agree with you. If I thought this was nothing, I would not be freaking out.
Store up some of the energy from the 3 hr. run, to start the process over.

Would something like this be scalable?

If Al and OC never thought a free lunch was possible why would they waste their time? Sounds suspicious.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Omnibus on January 11, 2008, 01:03:47 AM
@Omnibus

After the motor stop, do you tray to restart it ? Is it restarted ?
Discontinuous!? Start/stop!? This is beginning to sound familiar, and it's freaking me out! :o
Why? Aside from SMOT what else can do that? If you think that's nothing I'll give you a $10  bill in exchange for a $20 bill you'll hand me. And I'd like to do it more than once. Deal?
Erm, Omnibus, I like you, and I agree with you. If I thought this was nothing I would not be freaking out.
Store up some of the energy from the 3 hr. run to start the process over.

Would something like this be scalable?

If Al and OC never thought a free lunch was possible why would they waste their time? Sounds suspicious.
Not so much @overconfident. He's one of those many putting forth ideas. What was done, however, is not what was proposed anyway but is a result of a fortuitous error which lead to success. What puzzles me is the behavior of @alsetalonkin. In his words he undertook this to prove @overconfident ,who was pushing too much his idea, isn't right.  Everybody else on that forum was telling him that. And probably he isn't right because, as it turned out, the effect was due to a mistake having nothing to do with the original idea. And now that @alsetalonkin suddenly found this effect it got him scared to no end and he is going out of his way to prove it isn't what we see in the video, siding even with his obvious enemies alleging fraud and nut cases for that purpose. He made it quite clear that it's much more important to keep his job and not anger his boss than to be connected with anything science denies at this time. History teaches us that a true researcher must have a backbone. That's not easy and requires special qualities.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: RunningBare on January 11, 2008, 01:23:21 AM
Omnibus said "@alsetalonkin suddenly found this effect it got him scared "

If this were true I would not blame him, I've been hanging around these boards and the boards that dispute the idea of free energy, trust me when I say "some" of you scare the crap out of me, zealots on both sides!

But I will agree as I've already said on the steorn forum that alsetalokin is under selling his discovery, but thats non of our business, the replicators hopefully will be able to at least validate the video, my own replication is held up presently because I've not found a method for mounting the stator yet, rotor is complete.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: SoeN on January 11, 2008, 01:33:51 AM
Another Update from me :)

Two pictures below showing the Dampners that I lathed down to 12.7mm * 6.4 depth.

The second pictures show the positions of all 3 of the Stator Magnets now. Will need to replace the Polycarbonate dummy's for the real; stator magnets when they arrive.

I will adjust the height of the Dampners and the Rotor to suit the Stator magnets when ready to go!

Have started milling out second Rotor to fit the 5mm Rod Magnets I have coming, but also thx to Craigy I now have some 6mm Rod Magnets on there way :). So plenty to play with hopefully.

Cheers

Sean.


According to my experience; One solid magnet has different pole characteristic over the combining some segment magnet together.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: ken_nyus on January 11, 2008, 01:35:32 AM
From the Steorn forum this evening, for those building already...

"...But I do not recommend using polycarbonate (Lexan )for any part of the machine--it's in the wrong place on the triboelectric series, if one of my theories is correct.

Nor do I recommend acrylic plastic (Lucite, Plexiglas, Perspex?) for the rotor, if the base is acrylic. Different materials should probably be used. I used HDPE which at the opposite end of the plastic tribo series from acrylic."


It would be interesting if this turns out to be some kind of electro-static device.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: vipond50 on January 11, 2008, 01:44:20 AM
I ordered my bearings today.  I chose the flanged ones for the center rotor.  A tad more expensive but probably will be worth it.  Add a few drops of oil and they are good to 48,000 rpm's.  I was already speaking with the bearing guy about future upgrades, and once the unit is actually up and running, we hope to replace all of the bearings, first thing, with precision bearings.  Rated rpm's about 100,000.  It simply means less friction. 

But we want to use the same type of everything to start with.  Get it running first, before changing anything!  ;)

Cheers,

Bruce

Bruce
Thanks for putting that post relating to the R3 bearings. I called and spoke to Mike (Nice Gentleman) and ordered the bearings. At the time he had not acquired any info relating to the Flange bearings, so went with the un-flange.
Man i have never waited on parts for a project like this one, Karma ?
I will be ordering again from that company (Mike).

Anyway thanks again
Bill  ;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: g4macdad on January 11, 2008, 01:45:01 AM
Omnibus said "@alsetalonkin suddenly found this effect it got him scared "

If this were true I would not blame him, I've been hanging around these boards and the boards that dispute the idea of free energy, trust me when I say "some" of you scare the crap out of me, zealots on both sides!

But I will agree as I've already said on the steorn forum that alsetalokin is under selling his discovery, but thats non of our business, the replicators hopefully will be able to at least validate the video, my own replication is held up presently because I've not found a method for mounting the stator yet, rotor is complete.
What makes Omnibus a Zealot? This appears to be free energy. Anyone who would be upset to find out that it is "free energy", has real issues.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 11, 2008, 01:52:26 AM
@g4macdad,

That's a wrong perception you have. I'm no zealot at all. My insistence that we're dealing with energy from nothing stems from a scientifically rigorous analysis I've already made and this keeps my interest in this field. What do you want me to do, have the undeniable proof that CoE can be violated and not consider it and behave as if it doesn't exist? Now, that would be the behavior of a real zealot. Just like @alsetalonkin--he found this effect, showed it to us and now can't stand himself that he ever did that, siding with his bitterest enemies, accusing him of fraud and cursing at him. That's really bizarre.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: g4macdad on January 11, 2008, 01:59:43 AM
@g4macdad,

That's a wrong perception you have. I'm no zealot at all. My insistence that we're dealing with energy from nothing stems from a scientifically rigorous analysis I've already made and this keeps my interest in this field. What do you want me to do, have the undeniable proof that CoE can be violated and not consider it and behave as if it doesn't exist? Now, that would be the behavior of a real zealot. Just like @alsetalonkin--he found this effect, showed it to us and now can't stand himself that he ever did that, siding with his bitterest enemies, accusing him of fraud and cursing at him. That's really bizarre.
Omnibus,
Read my post more carefully. I was saying that you are not a zealot or Pharisee. I have seen you get continuously attacked so the defensive attitude is forgivable.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 11, 2008, 02:00:17 AM
@RunningBare,

I didn't catch how you mounted the rotor? Proper mounting of the stators as in the original is also still to be understood.I'm not too concerned with the dampers so far but who knows ...
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 11, 2008, 02:02:16 AM
@ken_nyus,

Suppose it works the same way in a Faraday cage. What kind of a trivial electrostatic device, yet turning, can it be?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: RunningBare on January 11, 2008, 02:02:59 AM
What makes Omnibus a Zealot? This appears to be free energy. Anyone who would be upset to find out that it is "free energy", has real issues.

Errr, I dont remember calling omnibus a zealot, obsessive maybe but not a zealot, anyway I've said too much off topic already, back to the OCAL.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 11, 2008, 02:04:41 AM
@g4macdad,

Indeed. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Well, hope you can understand why ...
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 11, 2008, 02:20:08 AM
I ordered my bearings today.  I chose the flanged ones for the center rotor.  A tad more expensive but probably will be worth it.  Add a few drops of oil and they are good to 48,000 rpm's.  I was already speaking with the bearing guy about future upgrades, and once the unit is actually up and running, we hope to replace all of the bearings, first thing, with precision bearings.  Rated rpm's about 100,000.  It simply means less friction. 

But we want to use the same type of everything to start with.  Get it running first, before changing anything!  ;)

Cheers,

Bruce

Bruce
Thanks for putting that post relating to the R3 bearings. I called and spoke to Mike (Nice Gentleman) and ordered the bearings. At the time he had not acquired any info relating to the Flange bearings, so went with the un-flange.
Man i have never waited on parts for a project like this one, Karma ?
I will be ordering again from that company (Mike).

Anyway thanks again
Bill  ;D

Your welcome Bill.  The flanged bearings for the rotor stator only cost about an additional $1.00 each.

My thinking on this, is that it is of importance enough, for me to spend $17.00 USD for new, good bearings.

I also want to make sure that the base, rotor, and magnet stator holders are made out of the exact same material that Al used.  Now, if Clanzer's motor works, and he has used, identical (or so it appears) material for base and rotor, then that will alleviate some static electricity theories.  I just want to take no chance.  If it does work by producing it's own static electricity, it makes no difference to me, because IT WORKS.  LOL

I for one, wonder if he discovered the "Steorn Effect", or something solely new.  It will be interesting to see.  It will also be interesting to see the faces of folks looking at this thing spin without power.  Especially at the University where I work.   ;D ;D 

@ Omnibus
I did not bother to price the precision bearings, but they will not be very expensive.  The bearings are small.  (For Now!!   :D )

EDIT:
I found this great post by Al, from yesterday.  Lots of info and details.

"Every time I have actually seen it stop, it does so by the "dropping out" of the spinning stator. It seems to run at an almost constant rpm until that happens. Spontaneously? Due to some perturbation? They turn off the Jacuzzi upstairs? I don't know.
But I can say that the slow linear decay to zero rpm, isn't the way it seems to behave. Of course I do not have any data at all past about 3 1/2 hours, and I expect it to be able to run for about 1 day 15 hours, or 39 (say 40) hours, thanks to the math models that have been worked out, and based on my conjecture that there may be as much as 17000 Joules available for momentum change, per run.

As for the acceleration when I stop the 2 "idler" stators: I feel certain that this is due to the reduction in drag. It takes energy to rotate each part of the unit, clearly. When the stators are stopped, the energy that was expended in keeping them rotating is now available to the rotor, and it speeds up until again, the power output is equal to all drag and friction sources."
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: vipond50 on January 11, 2008, 02:39:50 AM
@btentzer

Yes I totally concur, for the small change involved for this project, why go with used Stuff? I also am repilcating as EXACTLY or as close to Al"s device as I possibly can. When and IF I get the device to motorize I will be headed off to the University Physics lab to run more tests. There I have the nessecary equipment to hopefully obtain the true nature of the operation of the device. But first things first  :D
At this point i do have my ideas on how and why the device is operating, but I will not elaborate until i have data to back it up.
Did Mike have an Idea when he would have the info on the SS bearings?
Rambling
Thx
Bill
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: tinu on January 11, 2008, 02:47:24 AM
Omnibus,
Read my post more carefully. I was saying that you are not a zealot or Pharisee. I have seen you get continuously attacked so the defensive attitude is forgivable.

Omnibus is not being attacked.
He just pretends to have a proof that he simply hasn?t. What he does have is a limited understanding of SMOT and a huge ego. But little science indeed. I?d guess his skills are somewhere around to those of a high-school teacher but not a brilliant one. I?d be curious to know about his real credentials?

Anyway, the story is long and this issue is off-topic here. But if you want to find more, just ask Omnibus politely to show you where is the CoE violation for SMOT ?proved beyond any doubt?. And you?ll see and understand for yourself.

Cheers everyone and sorry for deviating from the topic.
Tinu
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: rotorhead on January 11, 2008, 03:10:27 AM
But if you want to find more, just ask Omnibus politely to show you where is the CoE violation for SMOT ?proved beyond any doubt?. And you?ll see and understand for yourself.
And please do it in the appropriate thread.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 11, 2008, 03:30:57 AM
Omnibus,
Read my post more carefully. I was saying that you are not a zealot or Pharisee. I have seen you get continuously attacked so the defensive attitude is forgivable.

Omnibus is not being attacked.
He just pretends to have a proof that he simply hasn?t. What he does have is a limited understanding of SMOT and a huge ego. But little science indeed. I?d guess his skills are somewhere around to those of a high-school teacher but not a brilliant one. I?d be curious to know about his real credentials?

Anyway, the story is long and this issue is off-topic here. But if you want to find more, just ask Omnibus politely to show you where is the CoE violation for SMOT ?proved beyond any doubt?. And you?ll see and understand for yourself.

Cheers everyone and sorry for deviating from the topic.
Tinu


@tinu, cut it out. Al least learn some physics before going around spewing crap. Get out of this thread. People here are trying to replicate something and not put up with your incoherent ramblings.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 11, 2008, 03:41:00 AM
@btentzer,

What is great about such ramblings:

Quote
Of course I do not have any data at all past about 3 1/2 hours, and I expect it to be able to run for about 1 day 15 hours, or 39 (say 40) hours, thanks to the math models that have been worked out, and based on my conjecture that there may be as much as 17000 Joules available for momentum change, per run.

Nothing. What momentum change? What 17000 Joules? What math models and conjecture?  Didn?t he just say:

Quote
Every time I have actually seen it stop, it does so by the "dropping out" of the spinning stator. It seems to run at an almost constant rpm until that happens

or

Quote
But I can say that the slow linear decay to zero rpm, isn't the way it seems to behave.

This clearly shows that energy is being generated out of no source if what he says in the above two quotes is true.

This person should stick to the technical issues and try to convince us that what we see in the video is real rather than trying to shove down our throats his cowardice in the form of completely ridiculous ?models? and bogus ?conjectures?.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ebswift on January 11, 2008, 03:42:19 AM
@tinu, cut it out. Al least learn some physics before going around spewing crap. Get out of this thread. People here are trying to replicate something and not put up with your incoherent ramblings.
Of all people to have here as the thread monitor.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 11, 2008, 03:42:23 AM
@ Jason

Take a look at the bottom shot of this OC sim posted from Al's thread.  Al was commenting on the bottom negative spike.  Does that look to you what I think?  Remember that post of yours along time ago, about the exact same looking negative spike? 

Perhaps I am seeing things?   ???

LOL

Let me know what you think.  It is intriguing.

http://www.geocities.com/deasyart/steorn/OC_sim_one_stator_a.JPG

Cheers,
Bruce 
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 11, 2008, 03:51:41 AM
@btentzer,

That's pretty interesting. This is exactly how I imagined @xpenzif's motor would work. Difficult to achieve proper timing, though with the latter motor to have every following station (rotor magnet in this case) in a proper position with respect to the stator, not only to overcome the back drag but also to add some extra energy compared to the previous station. @alsetalonkin has achieved it and I hope we'll achieve it too. It may be that the particular design @alsetalonkin has found out by chance makes this timing issue less of a problem and the device more practical too (more efficiently utilizing said possibility for extra energy at every new magnet).
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Motorcoach1 on January 11, 2008, 05:07:24 AM
Way to COOL ..OK i'm building hehehe , need a break from the Testanika machine anyway  ;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: amigo on January 11, 2008, 05:41:54 AM
Hello fellow seekers,

I have followed these developments with detached interest but would like to point something out that might not be obvious and it is definitely incorrect in the drawings made by JDO300. Please see the attached images for reference to my writing below.

The letters A, B and C in the images are not equidistant from the center of the rotor, thus the radius as presented in the Drawings.pdf is incorrect. The radius varies and thus creates and ellipse instead of a circle.

I would like to comment on the ellipse now because I feel that the importance of the geometry as a factor is disregarded while in turn it is the most important part of existence and everything in the Universe. When I say geometry I mean non-euclidean hyperbolic geometry, the "organic", geometry of life.

In my humble opinion, in order for this device to work (by mimic-ing nature), or any device for that matter regardless of magnetic, electric, or other forces, it has to be based on vortex, spiraling, hyperbolic geometry. Furthermore, the motion *has*  to be centripetal, imploding (as per Viktor Schauberger) and not centrifugal, exploding one.

In this case the rotor has to virtually spiral downwards, as if it was falling into the vortex created by the motion forward, and thus the equidistant circle arrangement of pegs holding the stator magnets and dampeners is not correct and will not yield desired results. If you exhibit the the attached images you can observe that I have outlined in RED the circle of the stator and marked A, B and C. The distances are not the same between the rotor and the A, B and C points, to me it definitely does not look like a play of shadow, foreshortening of the perspective or anything like that because it's a fairly clear photo.

I would also like to draw attention to point D which I have outlined as a reference point for orientation. The author of the device had failed to mark one side a virtual "north" and so we have to look at some mark (in this case the notch in the rubber leg edge) for reference because of what I said above regarding the geometry, that the orientation of stators and dampeners is elliptical and thus orientation of the entire assembly makes a difference when looking at the photo.

To make matters more complicated the author of the photos had rotated the assembly several times to make it easy for him to make measurements of stators and so when you are looking at each photo you have to know where's "virtual" north in the picture/assembly.

With all above in mind I think it might be useful to go back into author's video and re-trace these points while marking the virtual "north" orientation, for better understanding of the "falling down" into the vortex effect.

I apologize if this was obvious to some (or most people) in which case I beg your pardon for bringing this "non-sense" to your attention. I just felt it would've been (the most) important factor when replicating and troubleshooting operation of this device.

Thanks.

(http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/3126/pmm1af6.th.jpg) (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pmm1af6.jpg) (http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/8712/pmm2nz0.th.jpg) (http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pmm2nz0.jpg) (http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3960/pmm3fl6.th.jpg) (http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pmm3fl6.jpg)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: hydrocontrol on January 11, 2008, 05:43:22 AM
Quote
This clearly shows that energy is being generated out of no source if what he says in the above two quotes is true.

No source. Not true. We are all sitting on a Electric Dynamo called planet Earth. We spin to the east at over a 1000 mph while the molten core spins at a lesser speed. The massive magentic field generated protects us from a lot of harm while at the same time can easily be detected with a simple compass from anywhere on the planet. This magnet motor that is trying to be reproduced could just as easily be tapping and syncing with the Earth's field to run. The magnetic field of the Earth is clearly a viable source of coupling power for this motor to run.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 11, 2008, 05:49:26 AM
@amigo,

The pictures you've shown don't seem to be from the same motor shown in the video or maybe they just show the motor more clearly and it appears different. The stators are fewer in the video, if nothing else.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 11, 2008, 05:54:14 AM
@hydrocontrol,

And how does this coupling happen exactly?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: oak on January 11, 2008, 06:52:18 AM
@pinoyz, today I reposted on the Steorn forum your suggestion (page 23 above) that the florescent lighting transformer may be providing energy to the rotor:
 http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=59687&page=27#Item_32

Alsetalokin answered two posts below that, here:
 http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=59687&page=27#Item_34

It appears he does not think the light's transformer has a significant effect; it also appears he approves of what Harvey (the "rabbit") had to say about it, which is quoted in my post.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: pinoyz on January 11, 2008, 07:35:51 AM
@pinoyz, today I reposted on the Steorn forum your suggestion (page 23 above) that the florescent lighting transformer may be providing energy to the rotor:
 http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=59687&page=27#Item_32

Alsetalokin answered two posts below that, here:
 http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=59687&page=27#Item_34

It appears he does not think the light's transformer has a significant effect; it also appears he approves of what Harvey (the "rabbit") had to say about it, which is quoted in my post.


Thanks for the answer..
All we need now its to wait for the replicator to finish.....goodluck all
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 11, 2008, 11:27:12 AM

I have been watching the steorn forum threads, and I am seriously surprised that there is not the slightest comment from Sean and Co. I would have thought they would be encouraging the efforts being made .. or maybe they don't like the competition ?

Cheers,

Dean
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: JoinTheFun on January 11, 2008, 01:35:21 PM
Actually, there was a comment :
"Yep I saw it, seems pretty cool. Go ahead and test the hell out of it, from the chat that I have seen it looks like the guys know what they are doing on that front."
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Prophmaji on January 11, 2008, 04:24:02 PM
Quote
This clearly shows that energy is being generated out of no source if what he says in the above two quotes is true.

No source. Not true. We are all sitting on a Electric Dynamo called planet Earth. We spin to the east at over a 1000 mph while the molten core spins at a lesser speed. The massive magentic field generated protects us from a lot of harm while at the same time can easily be detected with a simple compass from anywhere on the planet. This magnet motor that is trying to be reproduced could just as easily be tapping and syncing with the Earth's field to run. The magnetic field of the Earth is clearly a viable source of coupling power for this motor to run.

Yes. A polarized, oriented, gradient, with a dual-spin (vortex in-vortex out) vortex. It is not static.

More like a DC ground plane that conducts 'near' ground current. No voltage, per se, but the motional characteristic and/or flow is definitely there. For example, in a piece of electronics, you can have ground wires going to a 'star' type ground situation. You can measure them (as an aggregate group) and get a measurement that is impossible to separate from that of the ground measurement (voltage), but still be conducting huge amounts of current. Ie, all the current in the circuit.

In the same way, a given field with respects to the earth may be unmeasurable in some ways, but that does not mean it is absent.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Prophmaji on January 11, 2008, 04:25:13 PM
Duplicate. Too much NSA and the like re-routing, one suspects. Makes the board a bit screwy. Happens quite often on this board.  Go figure.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: starcruiser on January 11, 2008, 04:39:02 PM
@Prophmaji,

where do you think they get all their project ideas from?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 11, 2008, 04:49:00 PM
Well the 5mm * 20mm Rod magnets arrived.

So knocked up another Rotor with 5mm slots.

Well atleast there is another configuration to try  ;D

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/S5mmrotor.jpg)

Cheers

Sean
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: robbie47 on January 11, 2008, 05:22:22 PM
Well the 5mm * 20mm Rod magnets arrived.
So knocked up another Rotor with 5mm slots.
Well atleast there is another configuration to try  ;D

Sean, you could well do another nice experiment with 2 rotors. Place them on top of each other, having the same axis, then rotate one clockwise, the other counter clockwise and try to get them into sync. I assume this is a nice variant on the present duplication effort.

I cannot keep up your paste of hardware making to my big regret.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: MeggerMan on January 11, 2008, 05:23:17 PM
Hi Sean,
You are getting too good at making rotors. Cannot wait until you get your stator magnets!!!

What thickness of acrylic are you using for the rotor? 
The reason I ask is that 20mm, even 15mm acrylic is relatively expensive, but 12mm is so much cheaper.
It looks like 10-12mm from the above photo.

Stator magnets: I did want to say this until I won the auction, but I managed to get some diametrically magnetised 12mm dia.  x 6mm thick neodynium disk magnets from the UK, not rings, from ebay, hope to have them early next week.
I searched for:
Neodymium diam*

and found these with an alternative spelling:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Neodymium-Discs-Magnet-Diametrally-pack-10-12mmx6mm_W0QQitemZ310012745179QQihZ021QQcategoryZ80546QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Have you tried mounting a 12mm rod magnet (horizontal) on a bearing for the stator magnet and try this while you wait for your ring magnets?

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 11, 2008, 05:24:52 PM
Just posted this over at Steorn after reading AL's Reply Stating:

********
But I do not recommend using polycarbonate (Lexan )for any part of the machine--it's in the wrong place on the triboelectric series, if one of my theories is correct.

Nor do I recommend acrylic plastic (Lucite, Plexiglas, Perspex?) for the rotor, if the base is acrylic. Different materials should probably be used. I used HDPE which at the opposite end of the plastic tribo series from acrylic."  

********

So Just found a supplier in UK of 20mm HDPE , so that is a result as I can have a go at making a Rotor to the original spec as well :)
They also do HDPE Rod which is cheap.
http://www.directplasticsonline.co.uk/home.php?cat=4060

Got to try a few different ways me thinks :)

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 11, 2008, 05:33:20 PM
Quote from: MeggerMan
What thickness of acrylic are you using for the rotor? 
The reason I ask is that 20mm, even 15mm acrylic is relatively expensive, but 12mm is so much cheaper.
It looks like 10-12mm from the above photo.

Hi Rob

Using 8mm Polycarbonate this end, but to increase the Mass I was going to cut another blank one and join them together if needs be, hence why I used a long Axle Shaft.
But also have sourced some 20mm HDPE now, which is not too bad a price.
So will try a few combinations, especially now AL has a theory about the plastics used help create the effect.

Nice find on the magnets btw. I am hoping mine will come next week now from the states, but if I get too inpatient, I might try some of those :)

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 11, 2008, 05:35:56 PM
Quote from: robbie47
Sean, you could well do another nice experiment with 2 rotors. Place them on top of each other, having the same axis, then rotate one clockwise, the other counter clockwise and try to get them into sync. I assume this is a nice variant on the present duplication effort.

Hi Robbie

Will try that one another day, knowing my luck if I do it now I will scatt up the Rotors I got and have to start again :) Good idea though.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Doug Furr replicating MPMM; OC-Sterling reconciliation
Post by: sterlinga on January 11, 2008, 05:39:58 PM

----- Original Message -----
From: Sterling D. Allan
To: Overconfident
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: I didn't ignore you


Hi OC,

Thanks for the apology.

I should mention also that Doug Furr, the Ph.D. Mechanical Engineer who built our 1/4-scale Perendev Magnet motor (with Brady's permission, but which we couldn't get to work) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6189540769300973039, expects to finish today his replica of your magnet motor design built by Al.  He's sticking to the design as illuminated by Jason O, except he's going 1.5-scale, and his stator magnet is proportionally a little larger.  He's not using the Delran sleeve around the stator magnet either, so he'll be able to approach the perimeter more closely (in the process of characterizing the effect) after the initial replication is done.

He's put a lot of thought into things like the placement of bearings for greatest strength, to avoid wobble.  All his parts: magnets and bearings, will be arriving today.

I stopped by his shop last night, and he showed me the clear plastic he will be cutting the rotor and base from, so one can see through it to see that there are no cheater devices attached anywhere.  He got the $2,000 sheet of clear 1/2-inch plastic for just $250.

As I was looking at his drawings, he leaned back and pointed back to a carburetor sitting on the table behind him.  He's been working on the gun engine, coming up with a way to retrofit engines with that technology, which results in dramatic improvement in mileage.  He said: "Engines are so complicated. I've been thinking that we [also] need something more simple [to solve the energy crisis]."

After this initial open sourcing phase of showing people exactly how to build one of these things, I would encourage those who are able to work on improvements which they can then patent and take to market.  Doug will likely be one who will do that.  I anticipate that Doug will also help us in the initial phase of characterizing what is going on: testing such things as magnet size, distance, position, etc.

As I was leaving last night, he told me that it would be easy to scale this thing down and get it ready to mass produce for selling as a grown-up toy.  He owns and operates his shop, which has all the necessary components for such mass production.  He has several injection molding machines.  He said it would take about two months to ramp up for such production.

Feel free to post this report at the Steorn forum.  I'll post it to the OU forum.

I'll not pass your email to others.  There is one person I previously disclosed it to: the guy who was interested in helping us build a clear and complete set of plans.  I disclosed it with the caveat of "confidential."

Sterling



----- Original Message -----
From: "Overconfident"
To: "Sterling D. Allan" <sterlingda@pureenergysystems.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: I didn't ignore you


Sterling,

If that is in fact the case, then I apologize. After
my submission (which I did on 2 occasions, sorry I
can't remember the dates), I thought I monitored your
site pretty closely. I missed that entry somehow. And
apparently nobody took notice anyway, or someone would
have pointed it out to me.

Regardless of that, neither Al nor I was really
prepared for what happened last week. When that video
was posted, there were about 300 messages in our
development thread, which was our primary means of
communication. It tripled in size over the weekend. We
were forced to start up several other threads to help
deal with all the traffic.

This has been an engineering effort, primarily between
2 virtual people, with some synergy from the Steorn
forum community. It has worked out well in the end.

There are many replications going now. I'm sure at
least some of them will be successful. There will be
plenty of people to interview. And I'm sure you will
have much to report.

My goals have almost been met. In fact they have most
likely already been met. I simply wanted the idea to
get some serious consideration from some qualified
people. That did not occur in response to the
information you posted on your site, but finally did
happen thanks to a fortuitous discussion in the Steorn
forum.

I'm not looking to gain anything from this other than
a potentially brighter future.

This has all been a dream. Now I want to move on and
try to pick up the pieces of my normal life. If you
have any concern for my well being, you will keep this
email address strictly confidential. There are only a
handful of people that know it, and I ask them to do
the same.

Everything I'm willing to share is out there in the
Steorn forum. In fact, probably more than I really
want to share.

I will be posting a copy of this apology in the Steorn
forum for all to see.

Regards,
OC

--- "Sterling D. Allan"
<sterlingda@pureenergysystems.com> wrote:

> Hi OC,
>
> Here is evidence that I didn't ignore you when you
> contacted me in October:
>
http://peswiki.com/index.php?title=Directory%3AMagnet_Motors&diff=48268&oldid=47721 (http://peswiki.com/index.php?title=Directory%3AMagnet_Motors&diff=48268&oldid=47721)
>
> The above url is a computer-generated comparison of
> The Sept. 28 version of the page and the Oct. 4
> version of the page.
>
> On that day, I posted a link to your work at
> PESWiki.com.  It is listed on the Magnet Motors
> index page under "Theoretical"; and I posted it at
> the beginning of that section.
>
> Sterling


Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 11, 2008, 05:42:27 PM
Hi Sean,

I was just gonna tell you about using HDPE to be close to the original. Mine is HDPE, as Jason has it as well in his drawings. However, now that you have it why don't you try it with the plexiglass as well.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: vipond50 on January 11, 2008, 05:42:30 PM
Hi Sean,
You are getting too good at making rotors. Cannot wait until you get your stator magnets!!!

What thickness of acrylic are you using for the rotor? 
The reason I ask is that 20mm, even 15mm acrylic is relatively expensive, but 12mm is so much cheaper.
It looks like 10-12mm from the above photo.

Stator magnets: I did want to say this until I won the auction, but I managed to get some diametrically magnetised 12mm dia.  x 6mm thick neodynium disk magnets from the UK, not rings, from ebay, hope to have them early next week.
I searched for:
Neodymium diam*



and found these with an alternative spelling:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Neodymium-Discs-Magnet-Diametrally-pack-10-12mmx6mm_W0QQitemZ310012745179QQihZ021QQcategoryZ80546QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Have you tried mounting a 12mm rod magnet (horizontal) on a bearing for the stator magnet and try this while you wait for your ring magnets?

Regards
Rob

What thickness of acrylic are you using for the rotor? 
The reason I ask is that 20mm, even 15mm acrylic is relatively expensive, but 12mm is so much cheaper.
It looks like 10-12mm from the above photo.

Stator magnets: I did want to say this until I won the auction, but I managed to get some diametrically magnetised 12mm dia.  x 6mm thick neodynium disk magnets from the UK, not rings, from ebay, hope to have them early next week.
I searched for:
Neodymium diam*



"Have you tried mounting a 12mm rod magnet (horizontal) on a bearing for the stator magnet and try this while you wait for your ring magnets?"

I tried this and found that it locks up the all steel magnet, maybe a SS or non magnetic bearing would have better results. Although this was expected.

Bill
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: vipond50 on January 11, 2008, 05:43:28 PM
Hi Sean,
You are getting too good at making rotors. Cannot wait until you get your stator magnets!!!

What thickness of acrylic are you using for the rotor? 
The reason I ask is that 20mm, even 15mm acrylic is relatively expensive, but 12mm is so much cheaper.
It looks like 10-12mm from the above photo.

Stator magnets: I did want to say this until I won the auction, but I managed to get some diametrically magnetised 12mm dia.  x 6mm thick neodynium disk magnets from the UK, not rings, from ebay, hope to have them early next week.
I searched for:
Neodymium diam*



and found these with an alternative spelling:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Neodymium-Discs-Magnet-Diametrally-pack-10-12mmx6mm_W0QQitemZ310012745179QQihZ021QQcategoryZ80546QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Have you tried mounting a 12mm rod magnet (horizontal) on a bearing for the stator magnet and try this while you wait for your ring magnets?

Regards
Rob

What thickness of acrylic are you using for the rotor? 
The reason I ask is that 20mm, even 15mm acrylic is relatively expensive, but 12mm is so much cheaper.
It looks like 10-12mm from the above photo.

Stator magnets: I did want to say this until I won the auction, but I managed to get some diametrically magnetised 12mm dia.  x 6mm thick neodynium disk magnets from the UK, not rings, from ebay, hope to have them early next week.
I searched for:
Neodymium diam*



"Have you tried mounting a 12mm rod magnet (horizontal) on a bearing for the stator magnet and try this while you wait for your ring magnets?"

I tried this and found that it locks up the all steel magnet, maybe a SS or non magnetic bearing would have better results. Although this was expected.

Bill

I meant bearing
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: hydrocontrol on January 11, 2008, 05:44:27 PM
Just posted this over at Steorn after reading AL's Reply Stating:
********
But I do not recommend using polycarbonate (Lexan )for any part of the machine--it's in the wrong place on the triboelectric series, if one of my theories is correct.

Nor do I recommend acrylic plastic (Lucite, Plexiglas, Perspex?) for the rotor, if the base is acrylic. Different materials should probably be used. I used HDPE which at the opposite end of the plastic tribo series from acrylic."  

********
So where does polyethylene fall into the materials. Being in the States I was using this stuff
http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item=372450
since it is cheap and just down the street. I got some shop time last night and got the Rotor machined out of this material. I already started on the base. Maybe the material really does not matter.
Title: Delran matters?
Post by: sterlinga on January 11, 2008, 05:45:06 PM
I should mention also that Doug Furr, the Ph.D. Mechanical Engineer who built our 1/4-scale Perendev Magnet motor (with Brady's permission, but which we couldn't get to work) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6189540769300973039, expects to finish today his replica of your magnet motor design built by Al.  He's sticking to the design as illuminated by Jason O, except he's going 1.5-scale, and his stator magnet is proportionally a little larger.  He's not using the Delran sleeve around the stator magnet either, so he'll be able to approach the perimeter more closely (in the process of characterizing the effect) after the initial replication is done.


From: "Overconfident"
To: "Sterling D. Allan" <sterlingda@pureenergysystems.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: I didn't ignore you


Sterling,

Al seems to think the plastic materials might have
some influence on the system. He advises to use Delrin
or HDPE. If things don't seem to work quite right for
some reason, you may want to conside using the
recommended materials.

Here's hoping that doesn't make a difference and by
tomorrow there are several replications able to
reproduce the "Alsetalokin Effect".

OC
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Charlie_V on January 11, 2008, 05:54:49 PM
Quote
able to reproduce the "Alsetalokin Effect"

I would hope that he would use his real name to define the effect.  Using your internet ID seems lame haha. 
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 11, 2008, 05:54:53 PM
Hi Sean,

I was just gonna tell you about using HDPE to be close to the original. Mine is HDPE, as Jason has it as well in his drawings. However, now that you have it why don't you try it with the plexiglass as well.

Will be trying it with exisiting Rotors and will cut a new HDPE, to try as well.

At first like many others I was hoping the weird effect that AL is seeing came from just the magnets interaction, but now it is surfacing of Static or something that is part of the effect and hence the materials become more important.
Hope we dun't have to make weird Tin Foil hats and where Reef Sandles as well hehe  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Lakes on January 11, 2008, 05:55:14 PM
Hi Sean,
You are getting too good at making rotors. Cannot wait until you get your stator magnets!!!

What thickness of acrylic are you using for the rotor? 
The reason I ask is that 20mm, even 15mm acrylic is relatively expensive, but 12mm is so much cheaper.
It looks like 10-12mm from the above photo.

Stator magnets: I did want to say this until I won the auction, but I managed to get some diametrically magnetised 12mm dia.  x 6mm thick neodynium disk magnets from the UK, not rings, from ebay, hope to have them early next week.
I searched for:
Neodymium diam*

and found these with an alternative spelling:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Neodymium-Discs-Magnet-Diametrally-pack-10-12mmx6mm_W0QQitemZ310012745179QQihZ021QQcategoryZ80546QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Have you tried mounting a 12mm rod magnet (horizontal) on a bearing for the stator magnet and try this while you wait for your ring magnets?

Regards
Rob
No center hole for mounting?
I`ve not had any reply to my email from E-magnets, but I did get a prompt reply from http://www.monstermagnete.de, there is no import duty if you buy from them and live in the EU, but you will pay German VAT.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 11, 2008, 05:59:13 PM
Quote from: hydrocontrol
So where does polyethylene fall into the materials. Being in the States I was using this stuff
http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item=372450

I used a chopping board once for a mini Minalto experiement:

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/hamel/smallminat2.jpg)

Looks like it could be the same as HDPE , will compare the two when it arrives.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 11, 2008, 06:02:20 PM
@CLaNZeR,

I don't believe for a minute that the effect is other than due to the magnetic interaction. The importance of the materials is solely regarding their mass which should provide the correct moment of inertia with regard to the magnetic interactions to observe the effect of acceleration we see in the video.
Title: Re: Doug Furr replicating MPMM; OC-Sterling reconciliation
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 11, 2008, 06:04:02 PM
Quote from: sterlinga
I stopped by his shop last night, and he showed me the clear plastic he will be cutting the rotor and base from, so one can see through it to see that there are no cheater devices attached anywhere.  He got the $2,000 sheet of clear 1/2-inch plastic for just $250.

$2000  :o How big was that sheet for that much money?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 11, 2008, 06:09:19 PM
@CLaNZeR,

Here in NYC a 13 x 13 in. 3/4" piece is almost $50.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: RunningBare on January 11, 2008, 06:09:23 PM
I think the static electricity thing is stretching things a bit, not saying it's impossible, but I do not believe for a moment it has anything to do with keeping this device spinning, I think AL has found a way to turn static magnetic force into a dynamic force, I've a feeling(not very scientific I know) that eddy currents and Lenz law is at work here.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 11, 2008, 06:26:03 PM
@RunningBare,

Static electricity is out of the question. How Eddy currents and Lentz law will contribute to have the disk accelerating and keeping the 3 hour spin at the higher velocity is a fairy tale as well. Prove me wrong. We already know what the reason for this behavior is, I've already provided a well-known analysis for that, and it was illustrated by the diagrams shown several pages back (page 29): http://www.geocities.com/deasyart/steorn/OC_sim_one_stator_a.JPG
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: mikestocks2006 on January 11, 2008, 06:29:56 PM

----- Original Message -----
From: Sterling D. Allan
To: Overconfident
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: I didn't ignore you

....
After this initial open sourcing phase of showing people exactly how to build one of these things, I would encourage those who are able to work on improvements which they can then patent and take to market.  Doug will likely be one who will do that.  I anticipate that Doug will also help us in the initial phase of characterizing what is going on: testing such things as magnet size, distance, position, etc.
...
> Sterling


Hi sterlinga,

Just curious, shouldn't this whole thing be open sourced and fully transparent all the way? None of the replications would be taking place if OC and Al were to keep their ideas and prototypes to themselves.
OC and AL led the way with fairly good transparency and open source spirit.

What would be the scope of patenting any further developments/improvements?

Thanks

ps: maybe a thread is needed to discuss opensourse vs patent? so not to take this too much of topic.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 11, 2008, 06:33:40 PM
a 8 mm sheet , 500 x 1000 is 30 euros here..
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: vipond50 on January 11, 2008, 06:44:57 PM

----- Original Message -----
From: Sterling D. Allan
To: Overconfident
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: I didn't ignore you

....
After this initial open sourcing phase of showing people exactly how to build one of these things, I would encourage those who are able to work on improvements which they can then patent and take to market.  Doug will likely be one who will do that.  I anticipate that Doug will also help us in the initial phase of characterizing what is going on: testing such things as magnet size, distance, position, etc.
...
> Sterling


Hi sterlinga,

Just curious, shouldn't this whole thing be open sourced and fully transparent all the way? None of the replications would be taking place if OC and Al were to keep their ideas and prototypes to themselves.
OC and AL led the way with fairly good transparency and open source spirit.

What would be the scope of patenting any further developments/improvements?

Thanks

ps: maybe a thread is needed to discuss opensourse vs patent? so not to take this too much of topic.

Shit  >:( (sorry) There's always some SOB that has to capitalizes on some one else's work. If this device  obtains multiple reps then lookout the poo is going to hit the fan.
I thought it was open source  ???

B.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: MeggerMan on January 11, 2008, 06:49:51 PM
Hi Sean,
There is a place not far from me in Cannock where I can get sheets of plastics material over the counter, so saving on postage:
http://www.holbourne.co.uk/
They have a minimum order of 20GBP which is not a problem.
The website looks posh but when you get there, like most places its just a big tin warehouse with shelves full of sheets of materials.
They have a couple of big table saws to chop the stuff up with.

I will find out next week what price they can do HDPE for because I think its the postage that will spoil the good price.
Certainly directplasticonline looks to be cheaper than Holborne.
http://www.directplasticsonline.co.uk
[edit] Just checked the directplasticsonline website and the postage is only 5.95GBP for orders under 45GBP and free if its over so that will be hard to beat! [end of edit]

I don't know if you want to go halfs on some different materials?

Also I have some white chopping boards I bought from Tesco quite a while ago that could be used for the rotor. Not sure what material, but it has a very waxy feel to it when you drill into it.
The other materials I have are 10mm A4 sheet of natural nylon, 10mm A4 of ebonite (really expensive) its a sorted of baked hard rubber.
Ebonite stinks when you cut it and is used to make freshwater fishing reels and musical instrument mouth pieces as I remember.

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 11, 2008, 06:56:20 PM
Quote from: MeggerMan
I don't know if you want to go halfs on some different materials?

Hi Rob

Thanks for the kind offer, but I have already ordered a sheet of the HDPE as only ?22.00 for a 500*500 sheet and I will probably use it again for other projects.
I have a lot of left over different size polycarbonate and Plexiglass from the various projects over time that I have played with, not to mention magnets and bearings LOL.
I would hate too add it all up, I would probably have a heart attack at the money wasted chasing this FE stuff.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: mikestocks2006 on January 11, 2008, 07:13:28 PM
Hi Sean,

I was just gonna tell you about using HDPE to be close to the original. Mine is HDPE, as Jason has it as well in his drawings. However, now that you have it why don't you try it with the plexiglass as well.

Will be trying it with exisiting Rotors and will cut a new HDPE, to try as well.

At first like many others I was hoping the weird effect that AL is seeing came from just the magnets interaction, but now it is surfacing of Static or something that is part of the effect and hence the materials become more important.
Hope we dun't have to make weird Tin Foil hats and where Reef Sandles as well hehe  ;D ;D ;D


Hi CLaNZeR, other replicators:
May I suggest to anneal HDPE prior final machining to relieve any bulk manufacturing induced residual stresses, (surface cooling gradients, non uniform crystallizations etc) by getting it up to 85-90 deg C for about 30 min to 1 hour (immerse in water etc) and slow cool.

For UHMW it takes somewhat higher temperatures over 100 deg C to 150 C and again slow cooling etc.

This should enable to achieve better dimensional stability and accuracy, especially if any temperature cycling tests are be performed in the future.

I hope this helps
Thanks
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: MeggerMan on January 11, 2008, 07:19:40 PM
Hi Sean,
Thanks for the kind offer, but I have already ordered a sheet of the HDPE as only ?22.00 for a 500*500 sheet and I will probably use it again for other projects.

No problems, I have a crate in the garage full of plastics and metals materials I have collected along the way, the same as you.

I will see how we go, I think I have enough acrylic for the rotor, first signs of something working and that's it, I'll be like a kid in a candy shop....oooh oooh, I'll have one of those, two of those and a bag of sherbit bonbons. ;o)

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 11, 2008, 07:47:29 PM
my daughter has built proof of concept..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJgnM5KvBaA
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 11, 2008, 07:49:51 PM
my daughter has built proof of concept..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJgnM5KvBaA

Excellent mate!!!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 11, 2008, 07:51:22 PM
Cute ...
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jinis on January 11, 2008, 07:57:44 PM
if needed, you can order from Germany diametrically polarized stator magnets(10mm):
http://www.monstermagnete.de/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=751

or this one ring magnet made of gold:
http://www.monstermagnete.de/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=700 (18mm)

ciao
Jinis
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 11, 2008, 08:05:08 PM
the interesting thing to note is that practically any size of magnet stuck to the stator bearing will rotate in sync in the geared direction provided the airgap is adjusted accordingly. I assume that part of the tunning proceedure is adjusting the airgap so that gearing is instant. Since this was a quick and dirty stator experiment , i just stuck 2 magnets either side of a 5 mm bearing out of a kakkered disk drive ( i have others but i don?t want to magnatize them just yet.) The draw back of this was that at any speed in excess of 800 rpm on the main rotor caused the magnets to fly off of the stator bearing, but my daughter seems to like it, cannot get her away from the thing..lol

i might make a perspex ring to go around the bearing and drill holes to accept the magnets in the sides, as you cannot do any real testing with the magnets just stuck to the bearing,
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 11, 2008, 08:16:47 PM
@Craigy,

Recall that that's just the effect @gaby de wilde was talking about and @CLaNZeR started exploring prior to any clue that such brouhaha would erupt. There are couple of threads discussing it in this forum. I suppose the greatest problem will be to achieve the proper timing which is the major problem in making these motors work, plaguing the field. It very well may turn out that in the case we're exploring now the timing issue will be easier to solve than in other devices many of us already explored in the past. This remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Doug Furr replicating MPMM; OC-Sterling reconciliation
Post by: sterlinga on January 11, 2008, 08:56:57 PM
Quote from: sterlinga
I stopped by his shop last night, and he showed me the clear plastic he will be cutting the rotor and base from, so one can see through it to see that there are no cheater devices attached anywhere.  He got the $2,000 sheet of clear 1/2-inch plastic for just $250.

$2000  :o How big was that sheet for that much money?


Maybe I misunderstood him, either on the size or type of plastic.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 11, 2008, 09:05:40 PM
the interesting thing to note is that practically any size of magnet stuck to the stator bearing will rotate in sync in the geared direction provided the airgap is adjusted accordingly. I assume that part of the tunning proceedure is adjusting the airgap so that gearing is instant. Since this was a quick and dirty stator experiment , i just stuck 2 magnets either side of a 5 mm bearing out of a kakkered disk drive ( i have others but i don?t want to magnatize them just yet.) The draw back of this was that at any speed in excess of 800 rpm on the main rotor caused the magnets to fly off of the stator bearing, but my daughter seems to like it, cannot get her away from the thing..lol

Craigy grrrrrrrrrrr I said I am waiting for the Proper Stator magnets to arrive before I start playing  ;D ;D
Ummm and the Kiss motor Stator left overs dropped into my rig accidently below, before you ask!!!

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/kissoc.jpg)

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 11, 2008, 09:09:36 PM
ummm just realised looking at that picture, the magnets show you where they are field wise with the 13-8 magnet position config.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/kissoc2.jpg)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 11, 2008, 09:19:11 PM
Hi Sean , will send you those 6 x 12 magnets tomorrow, the spanish post office closes at 2 , so can?t get there til sat. 

yes the stators, they will all gear but of course , at .rpm the best shape is cylindrical. hence the magnets we are waiting for. i am tempted to turn a plastic cylinder and plonk 2 small neos in it., but it gets harder to spin the stators in the wrong direction when we are taking about a 10 mm stator diameter. perhaps if i put a plastic flange on them , thus it would be easier to spin up on the dremil
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: sterlinga on January 11, 2008, 09:25:44 PM

----- Original Message -----
From: Sterling D. Allan
To: Overconfident
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: I didn't ignore you

....
After this initial open sourcing phase of showing people exactly how to build one of these things, I would encourage those who are able to work on improvements which they can then patent and take to market.  Doug will likely be one who will do that.  I anticipate that Doug will also help us in the initial phase of characterizing what is going on: testing such things as magnet size, distance, position, etc.
...
> Sterling


Hi sterlinga,

Just curious, shouldn't this whole thing be open sourced and fully transparent all the way? None of the replications would be taking place if OC and Al were to keep their ideas and prototypes to themselves.
OC and AL led the way with fairly good transparency and open source spirit.

What would be the scope of patenting any further developments/improvements?

Thanks

ps: maybe a thread is needed to discuss opensourse vs patent? so not to take this too much of topic.

Yes, this should probably be a different thread.

My take on it is that open source is ideal for the core idea.  Open source works fine in the software world from beginning to end because there are no significant capitalization costs. But in the energy marketplace, in order to get capital, one must have a patent; otherwise there is no assurance that someone else won't come along with a similar knock-off and make the capital investment not pan out.

Sterling
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 11, 2008, 09:25:52 PM
Quote from: Craigy
Hi Sean , will send you those 6 x 12 magnets tomorrow, the spanish post office closes at 2 , so can?t get there til sat. 

No problems mate, got enough too play with for now hehe

Quote
yes the stators, they will all gear but of course , at .rpm the best shape is cylindrical. hence the magnets we are waiting for. i am tempted to turn a plastic cylinder and plonk 2 small neos in it., but it gets harder to spin the stators in the wrong direction when we are taking about a 10 mm stator diameter. perhaps if i put a plastic flange on them , thus it would be easier to spin up on the dremil

Must admit I have played with those small 6mm Diametrically magnetised magnet and it takes a fair RPM to stop them interacting.

With the Config above, ya be lucky to get 3 revolutions, way too much of a sticky point LOL

When the orginal magnets arrive I think the only way to go for the constant speed is too use the good old Air Compresor to get a steady 400-600 RPM and then start spinning the Stator backwards, then as soon as a reaction is seen, cut the air flow. I have been flicking the small magnets all day and see what AL means by getting a sore finger  ;D ;D

Another gawd knows how many hours wasted again, I HOPE NOT LOL
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 11, 2008, 09:29:43 PM
Forgot to say, just received this in my Inbox

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmQf1Yp-Tig

Hope I am not being stalked  ;D

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: MeggerMan on January 11, 2008, 09:50:54 PM
@All,
I have and idea that the three stators are required because they reduce the cogging effect at slow speed to smooth out the rotation and reduce the drag. This will be down to their different magnetic phase spacing around the rotor.
At first I thought that perhaps you could work this without them, but now I suspect they are required. I am not sure if AL has tried it with just one stator magnet - maybe someone can advise on this.

The large 19mm thickness allows the rotor mass to be sufficient to again smooth out the rotation.
So a thin rotor may produce a watch hand ticking action that prevents the rotor from syncing in the first place.
Therefore I think I will need to get some 20mm HDPE material after all and try to stick very close to the original design.

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: rotorhead on January 11, 2008, 09:53:42 PM
Forgot to say, just received this in my Inbox

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmQf1Yp-Tig

Hope I am not being stalked  ;D
If anyone knows who did this video, please try and get them to do it right. There was editing done that cut out significant parts of the video and no disclaimers are present about the probability that this is NOT OU.

Thanks
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 11, 2008, 10:04:18 PM
@rotorhead,

If the motor does what the video shows and @asetalonkin hasn't faked it (I don't think he has) there is no probability that this isn't OU.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: rotorhead on January 11, 2008, 10:07:01 PM
@rotorhead,

If the motor does what the video shows and @asetalonkin hasn't faked it (I don't think he has) there is no probability that this isn't OU.
OK Omnibus. This is YOUR project now. I'm outta here.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 11, 2008, 10:07:51 PM
Quote from: rotorhead
If anyone knows who did this video, please try and get them to do it right. There was editing done that cut out significant parts of the video and no disclaimers are present about the probability that this is NOT OU.

I don't think he did too bad apart from his spelling and he said Clanzer when it should be CLaNZeR grrrrrrrrrr

It would of been nice if AL put a disclaimer on his videos saying it was not OU as well as the other 6+ versions posted since, must agree.
But then if Al originally said that, then would half of us of bothered to try replicate it? Ummm Okay I would, but then I try to replicate anything hehe  ;D

All part of the ride of FE and like I said to Al a couple of days ago over at Steorn, it will blow over soon, most things do.
UNLESS it gets replicated, then watch out as it all kicks off.


Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: RunningBare on January 11, 2008, 10:57:13 PM
Quote
[cite] alsetalokin:[/cite]For some reason it seems to be working rather well tonight. The rotor rpm is 1334, the stator rpm is 5378. It was difficult to start, it took maybe 20 flips of the stator magnet in all before it "caught". But I am developing a thumb technique that is easier than the finger.

I started it at 02:14. blueletter note: 11 Jan 2008
It is pretty noisy with the bearings chattering and growling, but I think I might be able to sleep.
Quote
[cite] alsetalokin:[/cite]Shut down by stopping stator mag at about 09:43
RPM just before shutdown: Rotor 1257, Stator 5030
Al's sleep time = 0
7 hrs. 26 min. run time

And it was stopped manually.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ebswift on January 11, 2008, 11:12:19 PM
hehehe, everyone must be asleep in here RB ;)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Lakes on January 11, 2008, 11:29:53 PM
Do you think if we asked nicely Clanzer would build some of his test rigs for us in the Uk?  ;)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: oak on January 11, 2008, 11:36:18 PM
Links regarding 7 hour 27 min. run time mentioned by RB above:
http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60132&page=18#Item_10
http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60132&page=18#Item_13

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 11, 2008, 11:37:40 PM
Quote
[cite] alsetalokin:[/cite]For some reason it seems to be working rather well tonight. The rotor rpm is 1334, the stator rpm is 5378. It was difficult to start, it took maybe 20 flips of the stator magnet in all before it "caught". But I am developing a thumb technique that is easier than the finger.

I started it at 02:14. blueletter note: 11 Jan 2008
It is pretty noisy with the bearings chattering and growling, but I think I might be able to sleep.
Quote
[cite] alsetalokin:[/cite]Shut down by stopping stator mag at about 09:43
RPM just before shutdown: Rotor 1257, Stator 5030
Al's sleep time = 0
7 hrs. 26 min. run time

And it was stopped manually.
Just checking to see if my registration has taken. ;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: oak on January 12, 2008, 12:06:26 AM
Hi Grimer, & welcome.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: b0rg13 on January 12, 2008, 12:11:07 AM
can any one summerise this, is it for real or not ?. :o
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: oak on January 12, 2008, 12:16:19 AM
can any one summerise this, is it for real or not ?. :o
Probably most participants in this thread think it probably is for real.

ETA:  lots of people are working on replicating, so we might know soon.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: b0rg13 on January 12, 2008, 12:20:28 AM
any one know why the first vid was shown in the dark ?....weird.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 12, 2008, 12:22:43 AM
Hi Grimer, & welcome.
Ta. At least I've got another home to go to if Shaun gets
insanely jealous and shuts down the forum.  ;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 12, 2008, 12:25:50 AM
any one know why the first vid was shown in the dark ?....weird.
When you are involved with something as awesome as this you don't worry about details. There's a brighter version around somewhere.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 12, 2008, 12:36:04 AM
Hi Grimer , well if its the real thing we still have a long way to go, but as the saying goes if you have enough chimps with pens they will eventually write a work of shakespeare. This might just be that work of shakespeare. I suspect Sean Mccarthy has all the patents regarding the testing of these things even if he hasn?t actually shown us a machine ....Regardless of the outcome its created a buzz that i have missed..

ps , anyone know of to way to stream webcam video , i have been looking at the vlc media player but have not downloaded yet. I would be nice if i could know how to do it from my web cam in the unlikely event something self sustains here LOL, when or if it happens i doubt i will be in the right frame of mind to set it up so thats why i am asking now...
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 12, 2008, 12:37:00 AM
@Grimer: Welcome mate, it taken ya long enough  ;D

What I like about this OCmpmm is that the guys OC and AL have not just dissapeared like all the other Rigs and claims we have seen over the years.
They are still around and AL is still posting positive results. This is very rare in the FE world and I think AL is being very sensible claiming it is not OU.

But I am not really worried about whether it is OU or not at this point, Shit if the thing can run for 7 hours with the only SEEN energy being seen put in, is a flick of a thumb, then who cares where the other energy comes from.
Let multiple people show for themselves this weird effect and then we can start analysing on a scale that it deserves.

Exciting week ahead hopefully :)

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 12, 2008, 12:42:17 AM
Quote from: Craigy
ps , anyone know of to way to stream webcam video , i have been looking at the vlc media player but have not downloaded yet. I would be nice if i could know how to do it from my web cam in the unlikely event something self sustains here LOL, when or if it happens i doubt i will be in the right frame of mind to set it up so thats why i am asking now...

Hope ya checked with your Missus, before you start streaming pictures of your Tenerife antics  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 12, 2008, 12:44:31 AM
Do you think if we asked nicely Clanzer would build some of his test rigs for us in the Uk?  ;)

@Lakes

If this works mate, I will cut anyone a Rotor who has been involved with these threads, as long as they send me the material  ;D
That is a promise, IF it works :)

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 12, 2008, 12:48:35 AM
HI Sean , LOL, Just thought if one of us gets something working it would be great if the others could watch the broadcast, i.e. al could go to sleep while we watched it for him lol
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: RunningBare on January 12, 2008, 12:53:20 AM
Hi Grimer , well if its the real thing we still have a long way to go, but as the saying goes if you have enough chimps with pens they will eventually write a work of shakespeare. This might just be that work of shakespeare. I suspect Sean Mccarthy has all the patents regarding the testing of these things even if he hasn?t actually shown us a machine ....Regardless of the outcome its created a buzz that i have missed..

ps , anyone know of to way to stream webcam video , i have been looking at the vlc media player but have not downloaded yet. I would be nice if i could know how to do it from my web cam in the unlikely event something self sustains here LOL, when or if it happens i doubt i will be in the right frame of mind to set it up so thats why i am asking now...

I use windows media 9 encoder when I want a direct real time live stream, it does however require a lot of bandwidth for decent quality image, its quite powerful and free.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/forpros/encoder/default.mspx
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Lakes on January 12, 2008, 12:56:05 AM
Hi Grimer , well if its the real thing we still have a long way to go, but as the saying goes if you have enough chimps with pens they will eventually write a work of shakespeare. This might just be that work of shakespeare. I suspect Sean Mccarthy has all the patents regarding the testing of these things even if he hasn?t actually shown us a machine ....Regardless of the outcome its created a buzz that i have missed..

ps , anyone know of to way to stream webcam video , i have been looking at the vlc media player but have not downloaded yet. I would be nice if i could know how to do it from my web cam in the unlikely event something self sustains here LOL, when or if it happens i doubt i will be in the right frame of mind to set it up so thats why i am asking now...
There is a site which makes it very easy to stream webcam video with little or no tech knowledge, one caveat is that the site in question can contain "adult" content, so over 18`s only, but it is free to join and I will set up a custom room that could be password protected if required to keep out the "normal" customers...
If you want to check it out the address is www.meetcam.com there are four webcam servers there, one of which is usually seldom used anyway.
Also includes voice and text chat.
EDIT: Its uses ActiveX (which is perfectly safe on this site) but becuase of this you have to Internet Explorer with XP or vista OS, it will not work with FireFox.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Thaelin on January 12, 2008, 01:00:45 AM
   Stephan also did a couple of links live here on OU from a place called www.ustream.tv. Seemed to work well and also had a chat area to go along with the video which had sound link also. He imbedded it into one of the messages so all you had to do was view the message and live you went. Worth a shot.


thaelin
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: iadcw on January 12, 2008, 01:04:58 AM
Hi guys

Haven't posted here in a long time. Thought I would update you on the following. Al explained he would start the OC-MPMM before he went to sleep and see if it was still running when he got up.

His words - a quote from steorn forum- - alsetalokin:
Shut down by stopping stator mag at about 09:43
RPM just before shutdown: Rotor 1257, Stator 5030 

This was an over 7 hr run.

He stopped manually - Noone yet knows how long it will run. Pretty amazing stuff - history is being made here.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 12, 2008, 01:05:35 AM
Hello All,

Just a little update.  I picked up my bearings today.  They are very nice!   ;D  I also priced  two levels up, of precision bearings, and they will run just over $6.00 USD each.  Once our replication is up and kicking, this will be my first improvement to try.  The step after that will be air bearings.  Each type of bearing is rated for more RPM's, having less friction.  Less friction, less heating of the bearings, etc.  Who knows, but it is my plan.  I know the bearing's can be greatly improved and see how that effects over all performance.

I am still waiting on my magnets.  Hopefully tomorrow.  Machine shop found and parts to be ordered.  Exact materials called for. 

I am thinking of a few other ideas also.  Laughable that some would attempt to patent an open source project. 

I also am thinking, if the dampers are removed, it speeds up to??  becomes unstable, because of the mechanics.  A weak magnetic field at tremendous speed, with a properly wound coil can produce a lot of electricity.  Shrink it down, size it up. Figure out a way to remove the dampers and keep it stable.  What would the RPM's be?  7,500?  10,000?  15,000?  LOL 

I do agree, a lot of fun ahead!!   ;D 

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ken_nyus on January 12, 2008, 01:06:46 AM
A seven hour run is exciting. Got magnets, just have to get the rest of the machine together!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 12, 2008, 01:11:11 AM
@Grimer: Welcome mate, it taken ya long enough  ;D
Yeah ...well, I thought it was more for you practical people who do things rather than people like me.
During the war they used to say that the Brits were much think and little do, whereas the Yanks were...well we wont go into that, ;)

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Dansway on January 12, 2008, 01:11:31 AM
Quote
A seven hour run is exciting. Got magnets, just have to get the rest of the machine together!

I got all the mags too and am also trying to get the rest of the machine together....   Maybe as soon as tonight....

Dan
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: iadcw on January 12, 2008, 01:12:00 AM
Hello All,

Just a little update.  I picked up my bearings today.  They are very nice!   ;D  I also priced  two levels up, of precision bearings, and they will run just over $6.00 USD each.  Once our replication is up and kicking, this will be my first improvement to try.  The step after that will be air bearings.  Each type of bearing is rated for more RPM's, having less friction.  Less friction, less heating of the bearings, etc.  Who knows, but it is my plan.  I know the bearing's can be greatly improved and see how that effects over all performance.

I am still waiting on my magnets.  Hopefully tomorrow.  Machine shop found and parts to be ordered.  Exact materials called for. 

I am thinking of a few other ideas also.  Laughable that some would attempt to patent an open source project. 

I also am thinking, if the dampers are removed, it speeds up to??  becomes unstable, because of the mechanics.  A weak magnetic field at tremendous speed, with a properly wound coil can produce a lot of electricity.  Shrink it down, size it up. Figure out a way to remove the dampers and keep it stable.  What would the RPM's be?  7,500?  10,000?  15,000?  LOL 

I do agree, a lot of fun ahead!!   ;D 

Cheers,
Bruce


EXACTLY - The dampers slow it down to keep it stable. How about a coil with a load in place of the dampers. This should do the same thing as the dampers with the proper load !!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 12, 2008, 01:31:27 AM
it was estimated that total run time was a day and a half in theory, i am guessing that the magnets are saturating , which would account for the slowing down. perhaps the position of the other stators is wrong in that respect. if that were the case then a fine tunning of one of the stationary stators would could push the rotor magnets back down from saturated and enable constant runs.
Since the machine can be re-started the magnets are not depleating.

All of this is fine , but until we reproduce this we will never know for sure, an while i would like it to work i will not hold my breath. I am enjoying the ride tho..
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: g4macdad on January 12, 2008, 01:35:45 AM
Omnibus,
Read my post more carefully. I was saying that you are not a zealot or Pharisee. I have seen you get continuously attacked so the defensive attitude is forgivable.

Omnibus is not being attacked.
He just pretends to have a proof that he simply hasn?t. What he does have is a limited understanding of SMOT and a huge ego. But little science indeed. I?d guess his skills are somewhere around to those of a high-school teacher but not a brilliant one. I?d be curious to know about his real credentials?

Anyway, the story is long and this issue is off-topic here. But if you want to find more, just ask Omnibus politely to show you where is the CoE violation for SMOT ?proved beyond any doubt?. And you?ll see and understand for yourself.

Cheers everyone and sorry for deviating from the topic.
Tinu


I have seen Omnibus's posts for almost a year in the Steorn forum. Most the people there seem to have far less knowledge on this subject than they would have us think (skeptics and nonskeptics alike). I have no more reason to doubt him than anyone else. Leave him alone and provide your own "proofs", or keep quite. Thanks ;)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: iadcw on January 12, 2008, 01:39:59 AM
it was estimated that total run time was a day and a half in theory, i am guessing that the magnets are saturating , which would account for the slowing down. perhaps the position of the other stators is wrong in that respect. if that were the case then a fine tunning of one of the stationary stators would could push the rotor magnets back down from saturated and enable constant runs.
Since the machine can be re-started the magnets are not depleating.

All of this is fine , but until we reproduce this we will never know for sure, an while i would like it to work i will not hold my breath. I am enjoying the ride tho..

I understand what your saying - But - If it doesnt have a battery or motor hidden or somewhere nearby, and I don't think it does and IF it works as described or shown in the video - like was said on another forum thread

 " if this aint overunity, then I'm a banana."
Title: Another Magnet Motor Idea
Post by: sterlinga on January 12, 2008, 02:01:58 AM
A PESWiki user, Chris Wilshaw posted the following comment:

QUOTE:

I have been reading up on this idea since joining PES Wiki a couple of days ago, I see there have been thousands of comments made along the way.

I think asymmetry is the key too, as that is the idea in my magnet motor. It stands to reason that a symmetrical system would find a comfy place and rest there. Just thinking of a simple simple version it's like a magnetic compass. There has to be some way of splitting a circle into divisions that the magnets can't get comfy with.

Can someone here tell me how to get my idea prototyped?

>>> Perpetually Rotating Bar Magnet Arrangement <<<

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Perpetually_Rotating_Bar_Magnet_Arrangement (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Perpetually_Rotating_Bar_Magnet_Arrangement)

/END QUOTE

His email is chriswilshaw {at} gmail.com
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: magpower on January 12, 2008, 02:16:56 AM
Well,  I'm all ready for testing tomorrow.  Everything is ready just to drop in the magnets and test away.  I've been building test machines for the Butch lafonte Group for the last few years.  If this works I'll build two more, one for Butch and one for another guy in our group.  We'll do many tests, so you will hear about it.



Just Wonding Dusty any news. Seems very quiet.

Wayne
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: hydrocontrol on January 12, 2008, 02:39:06 AM
Quote
A seven hour run is exciting. Got magnets, just have to get the rest of the machine together!
I got all the mags too and am also trying to get the rest of the machine together....   Maybe as soon as tonight....
Dan

Me too. Got the rotor done but need the bearings for the stator magnets. I ordered them from Applied Technology since they are in town but they will not come in till Monday..  :'(  At least it will give me time to finish the base..

TomG
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube!!!
Post by: Nicolas Roger on January 12, 2008, 03:08:10 AM
Well,  I'm all ready for testing tomorrow.  Everything is ready just to drop in the magnets and test away.  I've been building test machines for the Butch lafonte Group for the last few years.  If this works I'll build two more, one for Butch and one for another guy in our group.  We'll do many tests, so you will hear about it.



Just Wonding Dusty any news. Seems very quiet.

Wayne

Hi, im that "other guy" dusty is talking about.
Public message from Butch today on the JLN labs newsletter:

" the LaFonte Group is building three for testing by three different group
members. We expect to test today or tomorrow.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte"

You should here from us soon.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jdo300 on January 12, 2008, 03:17:53 AM
Hi All,

Glad to see some of the users over at the Steorn forum have come over to join us. As of now, I have my magnets for the motor, and Bruce is sending me some bearings for it. Bruce and I are working with another person, Hank to get a single prototype built. Should have the machine work finished sometime early next week, but as I can see, I have a feeling that a lot of you hear may beat us to the punch  ;).

There are a couple of notes that I would like to bring up. First off, could one of you Steorn users pass along the blueprint PDF file to Al? I am almost certain everything is correct in it but I would feel even better to know that he approves of the dimensions I put in it. Here's the direct link to the file:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3871.0;attach=16346

Also, I've noticed a few discussions relating to the theory about how this may work. Bruce mentioned the simulations that AL did showing some spikes in the graphs:

@ Jason

Take a look at the bottom shot of this OC sim posted from Al's thread.  Al was commenting on the bottom negative spike.  Does that look to you what I think?  Remember that post of yours along time ago, about the exact same looking negative spike? 

Perhaps I am seeing things?   ???

LOL

Let me know what you think.  It is intriguing.

http://www.geocities.com/deasyart/steorn/OC_sim_one_stator_a.JPG

Cheers,
Bruce 

I have done some research on an effect that produces similar spikes to the ones in the graph Bruce pointed out. My conviction is that this motor runs on the Magnetic 90 Degree Rule. I wrote an extensive article about this a couple of years ago. Here is a link to it for anyone who may be interested:

http://www.fdp.nu/free_energy.asp?book=90

God Bless,
Jason O

Title: Re: Another Magnet Motor Idea
Post by: SoeN on January 12, 2008, 03:19:07 AM
A PESWiki user, Chris Wilshaw posted the following comment:

QUOTE:

I have been reading up on this idea since joining PES Wiki a couple of days ago, I see there have been thousands of comments made along the way.

I think asymmetry is the key too, as that is the idea in my magnet motor. It stands to reason that a symmetrical system would find a comfy place and rest there. Just thinking of a simple simple version it's like a magnetic compass. There has to be some way of splitting a circle into divisions that the magnets can't get comfy with.

Can someone here tell me how to get my idea prototyped?

>>> Perpetually Rotating Bar Magnet Arrangement <<<

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Perpetually_Rotating_Bar_Magnet_Arrangement (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Perpetually_Rotating_Bar_Magnet_Arrangement)

/END QUOTE

His email is chriswilshaw {at} gmail.com
IMHO and my experience
It's no more or no less the result would be the same as Perendev Device.
Pulling magnetic force on the one side plus Pushing magnetic force on another side equal to zero.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 12, 2008, 04:32:41 AM
I noticed this quote at the bottom of one of the pages. Can someone tell me who is the author - Presumably the owner of the site. Being a Newbie I'm still finding my way around, :-\

==============================================================
Any concepts or ideas expressed in this post are intended for the public domain. Free licence is given to reproduce and or modify provided it is for non-profit use. I don't want money, I want overunity.
==============================================================
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: oak on January 12, 2008, 04:33:06 AM
"[C]ould one of you Steorn users pass along the blueprint PDF file to Al? I am almost certain everything is correct in it but I would feel even better to know that he approves of the dimensions I put in it."

Jason, your blueprint was pointed out to alsetalokin two days ago.  He said you did a great job, and suggested a slight modification:

Wow! That looks like something I could build!
That's a really good job, Jason.
I see you even put the thread fit class in.
The only thing I would add or change is the rotor axle. I know it's what I showed in most of the pictures. But if you look at the later ones, you will see a 3.5 mm shaft instead of the 1/4-20 brass screw, and the 1/2 in hole in the rotor has been "plugged" with a Delrin insert to adapt to this shaft. The shaft is mounted in a dual ball bearing holder with a spring compression end-play eliminator, and the holder in turn is mounted on the base, in lieu of the brass screw. The rotor now simply slides on and off the shaft. For upside down runs I secure the rotor with a little retaining collar with a setscrew.

It's nice to see a real engineering drawing for a change. I usually just sketch stuff on napkins, and that makes it hard to see those leftover bits of food that are so tasty in the middle of the night.  

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60141&page=2#Item_10

(And he's right, it is a great job.)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 12, 2008, 04:38:59 AM
Hi All,

Glad to see some of the users over at the Steorn forum have come over to join us. As of now, I have my magnets for the motor, and Bruce is sending me some bearings for it. Bruce and I are working with another person, Hank to get a single prototype built. Should have the machine work finished sometime early next week, but as I can see, I have a feeling that a lot of you hear may beat us to the punch  ;).

(Snip)

A correction, three prototypes being built.   One for each of us.  ;)

Plus fish oil for the bearings.  (go figure!  LOL  It might be the smelliest motor, but when it works.. hehehe!) 

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: Another Magnet Motor Idea
Post by: sterlinga on January 12, 2008, 04:41:46 AM
A PESWiki user, Chris Wilshaw posted the following comment:
>>> Perpetually Rotating Bar Magnet Arrangement <<<

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Perpetually_Rotating_Bar_Magnet_Arrangement (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Perpetually_Rotating_Bar_Magnet_Arrangement)
IMHO and my experience
It's no more or no less the result would be the same as Perendev Device.
Pulling magnetic force on the one side plus Pushing magnetic force on another side equal to zero.


I would guess that this is what a physicist would say about any magnet motor configuration.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 12, 2008, 04:56:41 AM
It's nice to see a real engineering drawing for a change.  

Sure is  :) . Took me back half a century to sharpening my H pencil on a sanding block.
 But you've probably never seen on of those.  ;)

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: hansvonlieven on January 12, 2008, 05:00:11 AM
It's nice to see a real engineering drawing for a change.  

Sure is  :) . Took me back half a century to sharpening my H pencil on a sanding block.
 But you've probably never seen on of those.  ;)



Or perhaps scratching India ink with a razorblade of the transparent paper and rubbing the spot with a little soap so you could draw a new line without it running??

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 12, 2008, 05:20:10 AM
 ;D  Wow!

Check out this post of Al's, from the latest test.  I had a feeling those stator's could go a lot faster.

"was able to get a 12-to-1 resonance going. With the unit operating, presumably on the one stator, I spun another stator magnet really fast gearwise, and it caught, and ran very smoothly, I could tell the stator was spinning faster than usual, and I was amazed when the tach confirmed it. 2 examples: rotor 1050, stator GW 12586. Rotor 1040, stator GW 12454."

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jdo300 on January 12, 2008, 05:23:57 AM
"[C]ould one of you Steorn users pass along the blueprint PDF file to Al? I am almost certain everything is correct in it but I would feel even better to know that he approves of the dimensions I put in it."

Jason, your blueprint was pointed out to alsetalokin two days ago.  He said you did a great job, and suggested a slight modification:

Wow! That looks like something I could build!
That's a really good job, Jason.
I see you even put the thread fit class in.
The only thing I would add or change is the rotor axle. I know it's what I showed in most of the pictures. But if you look at the later ones, you will see a 3.5 mm shaft instead of the 1/4-20 brass screw, and the 1/2 in hole in the rotor has been "plugged" with a Delrin insert to adapt to this shaft. The shaft is mounted in a dual ball bearing holder with a spring compression end-play eliminator, and the holder in turn is mounted on the base, in lieu of the brass screw. The rotor now simply slides on and off the shaft. For upside down runs I secure the rotor with a little retaining collar with a setscrew.

It's nice to see a real engineering drawing for a change. I usually just sketch stuff on napkins, and that makes it hard to see those leftover bits of food that are so tasty in the middle of the night.  

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60141&page=2#Item_10

(And he's right, it is a great job.)


Thanks!

I completely missed that post  :P.

I would be happy to add the axle assembly to the blueprints but I'm not sure what the dual ball-bearing holder with the spring compression end-play holder (wow what a mouth full) looks like. Is that something you can buy already like that or did he custom make it? Is there any way I could get more information on it. Maybe even a rough dimensioned sketch of the assembly? If so, I'd be happy to add it to the blueprints.

One other thing I'm wondering is if the motor still works alright with the screw as the shaft as opposed to the 3.5 mm one?

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Nicolas Roger on January 12, 2008, 05:38:42 AM
I got news from Butch (and so from Dusty):

"Nicolas,
Dusty received 3/16" magnets and needed 1/4". New magnets should be in by Monday. Also, the original builder said the rotor has to be the material he used and not clear plastic so the mass will be the same as well as static electricity properties. Dusty is making a new rotor so it will match the original design exactly. Then if it is successful, try it with the clear plastic rotor.
Butch"

So sorry to say guys, but we are still waiting for magnets..
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: cub3 on January 12, 2008, 06:12:29 AM
G'day all,

I believe my first post on this thread. I have been following for a few weeks (read all of postings)

Toolmaker by trade (retired by circumstances not age  or ability), though a lot of experience with electro/mechanical devices.

This has been mentioned before no doubt, though I shall again, to replicate a device all dimensions and materials used in original device should be strictly adhered to, otherwise not a replication.

Everything, is in the information and if i may say Duplicate, then experiment.

For the duplicators/replicators.

http://www.ospmm.com/whipmag/

Den

ps. I at present would kill for some basic equipment!!!!!!!    Keep up the excellent work :)

pps taken from      http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60142&page=1#Item_1

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: oak on January 12, 2008, 06:39:34 AM
Jason, I posted your questions about the rotor axle design in a location where alsetalokin will see them:
http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=59687&page=29#Item_29

(Side note to Steorn forum members:  if you have 'whispers' (private messages) in a particular thread in that forum, then a url intended to take you to a certain post will take you to the wrong post; if you sign off the url will take you to the correct location.)
Title: Re: Doug Furr replicating MPMM; OC-Sterling reconciliation
Post by: sterlinga on January 12, 2008, 07:08:39 AM

I should mention also that Doug Furr, the Ph.D. Mechanical Engineer who built our 1/4-scale Perendev Magnet motor (with Brady's permission, but which we couldn't get to work) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6189540769300973039, expects to finish today his replica of your magnet motor design built by Al.  [...]  All his parts: magnets and bearings, will be arriving today.

Doug got his parts, but didn't have time to machine the thing.  He might be able to get back to it over the week-end, but he has a patent on another project that he has to finish by Monday.

A couple of funny things.

Doug said that when he was calling the magnet guys they commented something to the effect that all the sudden people were ordering this one kind of magnet, and they ran out.  They didn't know why there was this sudden rush.  I guess no one told them.

Doug didn't have this problem because he's going 1.5-scale.  However, when the magnets arrived, the bill was like $600.  It turns out that rather than ordering 1 pack of 10, and one pack of 5, they ordered 10 packs of 10 and 5 packs of 5; so they're loaded with magnets.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 12, 2008, 07:23:09 AM
It's nice to see a real engineering drawing for a change.  

Sure is  :) . Took me back half a century to sharpening my H pencil on a sanding block.
 But you've probably never seen on of those.  ;)



Or perhaps scratching India ink with a razor blade of the transparent paper and rubbing the spot with a little soap so you could draw a new line without it running??

Hans von Lieven
:) That really took me back. Fortunately I had a Graphos pen and didn't have to rely on the more primitive type which looked like a wading birds beak. We also had some damn tough tracing sheet material so one wasn't in danger of scraping a hole in it. Probably why we never had to resort to soap.
I kept as far away from that as possible in those days. Still do to be quite honest, ;D
Title: Re: Doug Furr replicating MPMM; OC-Sterling reconciliation
Post by: Grimer on January 12, 2008, 07:31:16 AM

...
Doug didn't have this problem because he's going 1.5-scale.  However, when the magnets arrived, the bill was like $600.  It turns out that rather than ordering 1 pack of 10, and one pack of 5, they ordered 10 packs of 10 and 5 packs of 5; so they're loaded with magnets.
A relation of mine in Belgium was ordering some stuff and he forgot the decimal point, Instead of one box a complete lorry load turned up. :o
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jdo300 on January 12, 2008, 08:53:44 AM
Jason, I posted your questions about the rotor axle design in a location where alsetalokin will see them:
http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=59687&page=29#Item_29

(Side note to Steorn forum members:  if you have 'whispers' (private messages) in a particular thread in that forum, then a url intended to take you to a certain post will take you to the wrong post; if you sign off the url will take you to the correct location.)

Hi Oak,

Thanks for posting that for me. I'll be very interested to see what Al comes back with.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: SoeN on January 12, 2008, 09:12:08 AM
   I      II     III      IV     V     VI    VII    VIII      
5240 5273 5283 5292    5298 5334 5338 5360 rpm stator
1311 1317 1319 1322 1328 1334 1315 1340 rpm  rotor
3.99  4.00  4.00  4.00  3.99  3.99  4.06   4     ratio   

the magic number 4

I believe some one who had Inventor software or a kind of, could making a simulation, using ratio 4:1 of stator:rotor instead of using strobo light to the working unit.

Please.... ::)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: schoolboy2000 on January 12, 2008, 09:28:16 AM
Hi everyone !

I've been following this thread for a while and thought I'd jump in and say something real quick. First, I hope all the replicators have great success, I am really looking forward to their finished rigs and videos. Second, and more importantly, regarding a comment made by Sterling Alan:

"I would encourage those who are able to work on improvements which they can then patent and take to market.  Doug will likely be one who will do that."

As a proponent and obvious believer in free energy, I find it troubling that Sterling was the first to mention anything about patents, as it relates to financial windfalls. I am so proud of Al and OC for keeping their work open and believe that even mentioning $$ at this point is kind of counterproductive. I will say that Sterling has also made an effort to contribute to the project but I hope we all realize that the repercussions of a successful replication(s) are of great importance to all electric consumers and keeping the technology open and free will set us all free from the constraints of big business, namely the oil and ultimately the utility companies. There's nothing wrong with someone making a profit from an original idea I guess but already talking about patenting "improvements" to a fledgling technology\process\idea just doesn't sit right with me. Just my 2 cents and feel free to move this post to a dedicated topic such as open vs. patent if the moderators so choose to in their infinite wisdom.

Again, thanks Al and OC for bringing hope back to the hopeful, thanks to all that have spent time contributing, and good luck to all attempting to replicate !

Schoolboy
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ebswift on January 12, 2008, 09:46:19 AM
Hear Hear Schoolboy.  OC & Al have said all along that they want their idea to be open.  Even if their discovery is not OU, if it works as advertised, there is something very special working here.  Anyone who does something so special in the world does not go unrewarded in modern times.  I think some people are rather boldly taking charge of administration or attempting to do so.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omega_0 on January 12, 2008, 10:18:33 AM
So is there anyone with a working/non-working replica yet...besides the inventor of course???

(thats an OU version of "are we there yet?")  ;D


This claim is so different from all other previous ones that it brought me back to ou stuff....very very interesting indeed.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: tinu on January 12, 2008, 10:41:45 AM
Even if their discovery is not OU, if it works as advertised...

In can not be working as advertised  and non-OU  in the same time.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ebswift on January 12, 2008, 10:44:30 AM
Even if their discovery is not OU, if it works as advertised...

In can not be working as advertised  and non-OU  in the same time.
=).  Well currently, as-advertised, it is an anomaly :D.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: mikeytown2 on January 12, 2008, 11:40:24 AM
I hear that we might be thinking about streaming a web cam. Once the upstream bandwidth is known, then i can get a since for how we are going to stream the video. My first idea is to use Nullsoft Streaming Video and use something like peercast so that we can have more then 2 people watching.
Check your bandwith with this
http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/

Starting point for streaming video
http://www.peercast.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1986

Option B is to use a Skype plugin called Festoon. Only thing it's MIA, so it probably wont work.
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Internet/Chat/Instant-Messaging/vSkype.shtml

Here are more options for OpenSource P2P streaming video
http://www.scvi.net/stream/soft.htm


If we don't want to hassle with OpenSource or skype this might be a good option, although i'm still waiting for my broadcast activation email.
http://neokast.com/
If we send them an email i'm sure they would be quite willing to help seeing how they are "beta"
Here is a live West coast stream
http://neokast.com/#VideoPlayback%26streamid%3D1f3edb3b9ac511dc922d0002b3db9ec1
live East cost
http://neokast.com/#VideoPlayback%26streamid%3D2b642553fa0711db8e5b0002b3db9ec1
If its not sunny then u don't see much, these are apparently live. Check for sunlight
http://www.worldtimezone.com/datetime.htm


Let me know if you guys need any video help.
-Mikeytown2
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 12, 2008, 12:08:12 PM
REMOVED post

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: oak on January 12, 2008, 01:49:40 PM
Jason, here is alsetalokin's reply to my post about the rotor axle design:

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=59687&page=29#Item_42

These two earlier comments might also be useful:

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=59687&page=7&Focus=2266671#Item_20

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=59687&page=26&Focus=2266671#Item_6

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 12, 2008, 02:18:23 PM
http://ustream.tv/channel/overunity-testing

just testing , can you connect and see if its any good? Broadcasting live from tenerife
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jdo300 on January 12, 2008, 02:25:24 PM
Hi Oak,

Thank you for the information! That is most helpful.

While looking through the links, I noticed this quote from Al:

Quote
Ahh, no. These tests have so far only been performed in my basement. I discovered the effect over the holidays, today was the first day back at the lab, and I had the unit disassembled for the bearing mod, and didn't put it back together till I got home.

(http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=59687&page=7&Focus=2266671#Item_22)

Does this mean that he had the unit working when the screw was still being used as an axle?

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jdo300 on January 12, 2008, 02:27:31 PM
http://ustream.tv/channel/overunity-testing

just testing , can you connect and see if its any good? Broadcasting live from tenerife

Hi Craigy,

Yes I can see your video stream. You have that rotor disk belted to a DC motor?

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 12, 2008, 02:29:12 PM
yes , just for the effect of seeing something moving lol
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 12, 2008, 02:29:46 PM
http://ustream.tv/channel/overunity-testing

just testing , can you connect and see if its any good? Broadcasting live from tenerife
Perfect in London. :)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 12, 2008, 02:32:02 PM
so its quiet easy , to do i am surprised, well got 8 people connected at one time so not bad lol
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: RunningBare on January 12, 2008, 02:41:17 PM
http://ustream.tv/channel/overunity-testing

just testing , can you connect and see if its any good? Broadcasting live from tenerife

Got the stream here in the midlands very clearly, nice one Craigy.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 12, 2008, 02:44:45 PM
ok will leave it running for an hour , but it seems a good system if you need to broadcast a motor spinning lol
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 12, 2008, 02:50:22 PM
ok will leave it running for an hour , but it seems a good system if you need to broadcast a motor spinning lol

Receiving fine this end. Will make a note of that link.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Thaelin on January 12, 2008, 02:50:48 PM
   Good pic here PNW  stateside.  I have seen upwards of 50 on a channel at the same time.   Just check out perillo on ustream. He has quite a gang hanging out.

thaelin
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: canam101 on January 12, 2008, 02:56:16 PM
Good pic, smooth streaming, here in Canada.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: skymovingcloud on January 12, 2008, 03:12:25 PM
http://ustream.tv/channel/overunity-testing

just testing , can you connect and see if its any good? Broadcasting live from tenerife
Perfect in London. :)
second that, better than a screensaver ;-)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 12, 2008, 03:29:45 PM
I wonder if those of you in Australia will be spinning the rotor counter clockwise and the one stator magnet counter clock wise (the exact opposite of this hemisphere -Northern) to get your replication to work.  I would wager yes...   ;)  But we will see! 

An interesting video, related, but not anti-gearwise.  I wonder if he spun another "master gear" anti-gearwise if it would make the whole thing self sustain also.  A lot of new ground open for experimentation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRN-KCqlBxI&NR=1

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: wildgunz on January 12, 2008, 03:34:05 PM
I hope someone gets a replicaction done soon,I haven't slept more than a couple hours at a time this past week.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ken_nyus on January 12, 2008, 03:34:36 PM
http://ustream.tv/channel/overunity-testing

just testing , can you connect and see if its any good? Broadcasting live from tenerife
[/quote

Works fine in IE6 for me here on the east coast US, but nothing shows up in Firefox for me.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 12, 2008, 03:36:31 PM
I hope someone gets a replication done soon. I haven't slept more than a couple hours at a time this past week.
Good for you mate. You've got the right attitude. ;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 12, 2008, 03:36:59 PM
Started doing some weighing and wind down tests with NO stator magnets.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/weight1.jpg)

The little 3mm RC bearings top and bottom give a good 4 minute wind down from 1000RPM with Rotor Magnets.

Find Video below:

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/1000RPMCLaNZeRSRotor1.wmv

BTW I span it upto 4000 RPM without magnet just now and it started too lift off the table at 2500 RPM, so Blue Tacked the feet down and they are only just staying there at 4000 RPM, so be warned LOL  ;D ;D ;D

Span it up with Air Line as below.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/air1.jpg)

Off to find a bit of timber too screw then base plate too and add the extra weight !

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: oak on January 12, 2008, 03:45:42 PM
Hi Oak,

Thank you for the information! That is most helpful.

While looking through the links, I noticed this quote from Al:

Quote
Ahh, no. These tests have so far only been performed in my basement. I discovered the effect over the holidays, today was the first day back at the lab, and I had the unit disassembled for the bearing mod, and didn't put it back together till I got home.

(http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=59687&page=7&Focus=2266671#Item_22)

Does this mean that he had the unit working when the screw was still being used as an axle?

God Bless,
Jason O
That's how I would interpret what he said.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 12, 2008, 03:56:28 PM
@CLaNZeR,

Thanks for the video. I see your rotor being 199g is lighter than @alsetalonkin's 258g. Could you try turning it first by hand? I wonder if these 1000rpm were imparted by hand or not? Recall, when @alsetalonkin turns it by hand the spin is at ~400rpm. As the things are going here I'll be starting these experiments on Monday, hopefully. Have the magnets already, the bearings will probably arrive today bu the parts won't be ready till Monday.
Title: Re: Working Matp gnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 12, 2008, 04:05:43 PM
I didn?t like al?s reply to sean about the materials, on the steorn forum.. was it me or was he being patronising?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 12, 2008, 04:11:46 PM
Started doing some weighing and wind down tests with NO stator magnets.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/weight1.jpg)

The little 3mm RC bearings top and bottom give a good 4 minute wind down from 1000RPM with Rotor Magnets.

Find Video below:

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/1000RPMCLaNZeRSRotor1.wmv

BTW I span it upto 4000 RPM without magnet just now and it started too lift off the table at 2500 RPM, so Blue Tacked the feet down and they are only just staying there at 4000 RPM, so be warned LOL  ;D ;D ;D

Span it up with Air Line as below.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/air1.jpg)

Off to find a bit of timber too screw then base plate too and add the extra weight !

Cheers

Sean.


@ Sean

The rotor has only reached speeds below 2K.  The faster the stator magnets spin, the slower the rotor.  Where Al ran two of the stator magnets anti-gear wise, where they both sped up over 12,000 rpm's, the rotor was 1000 rpm.  So I don't think that you need worry about lift off, just yet!  LOL

Good work!!

Bruce
Title: Re: Working Matp gnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 12, 2008, 04:15:21 PM
I didn?t like al?s reply to sean about the materials, on the steorn forum.. was it me or was he being patronising?

Well he never answered the question did he  ;D I said I had ordered some HDPE as he had recommended on another thread with the answer coming back as :

************
Nylon is about like congealed asphalt as far as machinability goes. It is usually molded to shape.

The Delrin (or Acetal in the civilized world) is what I used for the early rotors and all the stator bearing/magnet holders, and the 3.5 mm to 1/2 in shaft adapter. It is by far the nicest plastic to machine. It has a sensual quality about it that is somewhat indescribable. Why, when I first met Delrin...but that's another story.
Oh, and the mechanical properties are nice too.
***********
So maybe I should or ordered some Actel hehehe  ;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Rosphere on January 12, 2008, 04:20:42 PM
@btentzer,

Hey, what are you doing over here kicking it with the magnet motor guys?  >:(

Get back and finish your TPU before it gets cold!  :D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 12, 2008, 04:32:36 PM
@btentzer,

Hey, what are you doing over here kicking it with the magnet motor guys?  >:(

Get back and finish your TPU before it gets cold!  :D

I can't help myself Mike!  It is the "attraction" to something that might very well be history making.  (every pun intended.)

And get it right, it's, "Kicking it with the TPU guys and rotating it with the magnet guys!"  ;D ;D :D

 Actually they are both about rotating magnetic fields, just different ways of doing it.  Or is it?  What makes SM's TPU work?  He doesn't know why.  What makes this work?  Hmmm......

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 12, 2008, 04:36:34 PM
@CLaNZeR,

Thanks for the video. I see your rotor being 199g is lighter than @alsetalonkin's 258g. Could you try turning it first by hand? I wonder if these 1000rpm were imparted by hand or not? Recall, when @alsetalonkin turns it by hand the spin is at ~400rpm. As the things are going here I'll be starting these experiments on Monday, hopefully. Have the magnets already, the bearings will probably arrive today bu the parts won't be ready till Monday.

A quick video showing the difference between hand and air line.

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/CLaNZeRSRoto1byhandbyairline.wmv

Cheers

Sean
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 12, 2008, 05:15:50 PM
Quote from: btentzer
The rotor has only reached speeds below 2K.  The faster the stator magnets spin, the slower the rotor.  Where Al ran two of the stator magnets anti-gear wise, where they both sped up over 12,000 rpm's, the rotor was 1000 rpm.  So I don't think that you need worry about lift off, just yet!  LOL

But we got to plan for the future Bruce hehe, When I pop it in me car it is not gonna go very fast at 1000RPM is it?  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 12, 2008, 05:16:49 PM
hi sean putting more wieght on the rotor makes it easier to sync as the initial braking effect is not as pronounced with 3 times more wieght . i have now put perspex disks above and below to triple the wieght ot plastic rotor and it seems to make sync easier. I am off to turn some stators holders for the magnets i have here and then maybe can do some reverse spins
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 12, 2008, 05:22:30 PM
@CLaNZeR,

OK, makes sense. Yours is lighter and you get it to spin by hand at over 500rpm (his is around 400rpm with about 120s wind down time). Would you by any chance have a DC motor to mount the rotor on it and measure the current and voltage necessary to have it spin at 550rpm on the one one hand and at, say, 1500rpm on the other. Let's see what the difference in power is. Then we can compare these data with calculated ones based on the moment of inertia of the rotor.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 12, 2008, 05:23:50 PM
hi sean putting more wieght on the rotor makes it easier to sync as the initial braking effect is not as pronounced with 3 times more wieght . i have now put perspex disks above and below to triple the wieght ot plastic rotor and it seems to make sync easier. I am off to turn some stators holders for the magnets i have here and then maybe can do some reverse spins

Well that HDPE should be here Monday as they despatched today, so will get the extra weight I need.

Was going to add weight to the Rotor I already have by cutting a couple of dummy rotors out. thinking about it I have some 6mm polycarbonate here, so I maybe will mill two rotors out and add them to the 8mm rotor.

 
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 12, 2008, 05:49:57 PM
@All

Why did Alsetalokin remove the video and why does he so stubbornly refuse to post any more to youtube ?

Regards,

Dean
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Thaelin on January 12, 2008, 06:01:46 PM
   ?Would it have anything to do with all the questions he has been hit with?  Give the guys a break, just let it play out. If its true, then there will be others publishing vids you can watch.

thaelin
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: RunningBare on January 12, 2008, 06:03:39 PM
@All

Why did Alsetalokin remove the video and why does he so stubbornly refuse to post any more to youtube ?

Regards,

Dean

I wish he would do more, but why should he?, hes not making any claims and he believes it could be external EM fields that keep it spinning, EM fields such as those generated by house wiring.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 12, 2008, 06:10:07 PM

@ RB,
I agree, he is not obliged to do anything.

But why remove the original video ?

Cheers,

Dean
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Nicolas Roger on January 12, 2008, 06:15:08 PM

@ RB,
I agree, he is not obliged to do anything.

But why remove the original video ?

Cheers,

Dean

He said he doesnt like all the attention he received.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: RunningBare on January 12, 2008, 06:20:11 PM

@ RB,
I agree, he is not obliged to do anything.

But why remove the original video ?

Cheers,

Dean

He said he doesnt like all the attention he received.

Hassle would be closer, the vid had not been up long before loads piled in on him with questions and shouts of fake.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Lakes on January 12, 2008, 06:25:42 PM
http://ustream.tv/channel/overunity-testing

just testing , can you connect and see if its any good? Broadcasting live from tenerife
Works ok in Firefox as well, but appears to be no voice chat, only text.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 12, 2008, 06:56:52 PM
Right now I have a 20mm Thick Rotor.

Extra 6mm dummies cut

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/td1.jpg)

Stuck together
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/td2.jpg)

Weighed.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/tdweight.jpg)


Off to do a wind down test.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 12, 2008, 07:47:14 PM
Hi all, got my first anti gear spin using the wrong magnets but no sustain or acceleration to report yet
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 12, 2008, 07:52:46 PM
Hi all, got my first anti gear spin using the wrong magnets but no sustain or acceleration to report yet
Well done. First step of the journey, 8)
Title: Anti-Gravity?
Post by: sterlinga on January 12, 2008, 07:54:03 PM
Started doing some weighing and wind down tests with NO stator magnets.
[...]
BTW I span it upto 4000 RPM without magnet just now and it started too lift off the table at 2500 RPM, so Blue Tacked the feet down and they are only just staying there at 4000 RPM, so be warned LOL  ;D ;D ;D
[...]

Hi Sean,

Are you joking or did you really see some possible anti-gravity effects?  I would think that this alone would be worth serious investigation.  Could you show that by video?  Unsecure the legs, and allow lift-off (with proper teathering and device protections in place).

Sterling
Title: Re: Anti-Gravity?
Post by: RunningBare on January 12, 2008, 07:58:56 PM

Hi Sean,

Are you joking or did you really see some possible anti-gravity effects?  I would think that this alone would be worth serious investigation.  Could you show that by video?  Unsecure the legs, and allow lift-off (with proper teathering and device protections in place).

Sterling

Ever consider something as simple as down draft?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: rotorhead on January 12, 2008, 08:04:09 PM
Hi all, got my first anti gear spin using the wrong magnets but no sustain or acceleration to report yet
Craigy, the rotor looks a bit small, rotor magnets too close to each other, possibly too long. My tests show best ratio of rotor magnet to stator dia: 1:1 to 1.5:1
Title: Re: Anti-Gravity?
Post by: RunningBare on January 12, 2008, 08:07:21 PM

Hi Sean,

Are you joking or did you really see some possible anti-gravity effects?  I would think that this alone would be worth serious investigation.  Could you show that by video?  Unsecure the legs, and allow lift-off (with proper teathering and device protections in place).

Sterling

Ever consider something as simple as down draft?

Oh, I forgot to add low air pressure above the rotor at those high RPMs

But seriously, could someone explain the connection between gravity and magnetism, I see this around these boards quite often, my understanding is that magnetism and gravity only have similar characteristics but they do not interact,
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 12, 2008, 08:15:24 PM
Well gawd that was boring filming that LOL  ;D ;D

But from 1000RPM it took 8 minutes 30 seconds to Wind Down.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/20mmRotor2.jpg)

Here is a Video and if anyone watches the whole of it, you are a sadder man than me  ;D ;D ;D ;D

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/CLaNZeRS20mmrotor2winddown.wmv

Off too look at Craigy's video :)

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 12, 2008, 08:16:29 PM
Hi all, got my first anti gear spin using the wrong magnets but no sustain or acceleration to report yet
Craigy, the rotor looks a bit small, rotor magnets too close to each other, possibly too long. My tests show best ratio of rotor magnet to stator dia: 1:1 to 1.5:1

Hi There , this is the playing before i get the correct magnets, i have the correct rotor on its way and the correct magnets, besides the stators themselves are 2 small neos drilled into a perspex disk, i am surprised i got anything with those..
Title: Re: Anti-Gravity?
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 12, 2008, 08:17:18 PM
Quote from: sterlinga
Are you joking or did you really see some possible anti-gravity effects?  I would think that this alone would be worth serious investigation.  Could you show that by video?  Unsecure the legs, and allow lift-off (with proper teathering and device protections in place).

Sterling

It is because there are holes in the baseplate, the down draft forces it up.

I had this with another Rig in the Summer when it hit 4000RPM and that just had one 40mm hole under the Rotor, but was enough for the down draft too force it upwards.

Title: Re: Anti-Gravity?
Post by: Grimer on January 12, 2008, 08:22:48 PM

Hi Sean,

Are you joking or did you really see some possible anti-gravity effects?  I would think that this alone would be worth serious investigation.  Could you show that by video?  Unsecure the legs, and allow lift-off (with proper tethering and device protections in place).

Sterling

Ever consider something as simple as down draft?

Oh, I forgot to add low air pressure above the rotor at those high RPMs

But seriously, could someone explain the connection between gravity and magnetism, I see this around these boards quite often, my understanding is that magnetism and gravity only have similar characteristics but they do not interact,
Mmm...Well it could be that the OCAL effect is a manifestation of the polarisation of inertia - which is another way of saying the polarisation of mass since the definition is the same for both. Mass is not a measure of the amount of stuff but a property of stuff. If you increase the velocity of a body the mass increases but the number of protons, etc. the amount of "stuff" remains constant.

Now it is conceivable that if mass is polarised that there will be less seeing the gravitational wind that blows steadily downwards. So its conceivable that the weight of the rotor will decrease.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: rotorhead on January 12, 2008, 08:23:56 PM
Hi all, got my first anti gear spin using the wrong magnets but no sustain or acceleration to report yet
Craigy, the rotor looks a bit small, rotor magnets too close to each other, possibly too long. My tests show best ratio of rotor magnet to stator dia: 1:1 to 1.5:1

Hi There , this is the playing before i get the correct magnets, i have the correct rotor on its way and the correct magnets, besides the stators themselves are 2 small neos drilled into a perspex disk, i am surprised i got anything with those..
Got any 1/4" cubes? One of them mounted in center of the stator, poles facing out, might have a chance. Didn't notice any other stators. Are they there?
Title: Re: Anti-Gravity?
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 12, 2008, 08:27:02 PM
Started doing some weighing and wind down tests with NO stator magnets.
[...]
BTW I span it upto 4000 RPM without magnet just now and it started too lift off the table at 2500 RPM, so Blue Tacked the feet down and they are only just staying there at 4000 RPM, so be warned LOL  ;D ;D ;D
[...]

Hi Sean,

Are you joking or did you really see some possible anti-gravity effects?  I would think that this alone would be worth serious investigation.  Could you show that by video?  Unsecure the legs, and allow lift-off (with proper teathering and device protections in place).

Sterling

There is a HUGE difference between lift and inertia.  Think of "helicopter", not "anti-gravity".   :D ;D


Hi Sean,

Are you joking or did you really see some possible anti-gravity effects?  I would think that this alone would be worth serious investigation.  Could you show that by video?  Unsecure the legs, and allow lift-off (with proper teathering and device protections in place).

Sterling

Ever consider something as simple as down draft?

LOL!  Naw, it's anti-gravity, let's patent it!   ;)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 12, 2008, 08:31:48 PM
In the video there is just one stator , i made more stators but was so  excited after installing the first one that i ran out of time to install magnets in the others lol, what a plonker i must be..Like i said have the correct magnets on their way , but can?t sit here doing nothing
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Localjoe on January 12, 2008, 08:33:50 PM
@Sterlinga

I remember seeing an old x craft that had discs on either side of the body that spun at high rpm's and provided thrust for the plane.  It was a real old plane tho somewheres in the 50's i think.  But supports that concept.
                                                                                                                          Joe
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: rotorhead on January 12, 2008, 08:34:04 PM
In the video there is just one stator , i made more stators but was so  excited after installing the first one that i ran out of time to install magnets in the others lol, what a plonker i must be..Like i said have the correct magnets on their way , but can?t sit here doing nothing
That's why I suggested trying cubes. Give you something to try while waiting.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 12, 2008, 08:34:12 PM
Quote from: Craigy
Hi There , this is the playing before i get the correct magnets, i have the correct rotor on its way and the correct magnets, besides the stators themselves are 2 small neos drilled into a perspex disk, i am surprised i got anything with those..

Great Craigy, ya had too go playing TUT, ya could not wait for ya proper stator magnets TUT.

Right SOD you I am off too play as well hehehe  ;D

Well done mate.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: jcims on January 12, 2008, 09:49:03 PM
Well gawd that was boring filming that LOL  ;D ;D

If you get bored again, you could settle another old debate and see if it runs longer with the axle set horizontally.. :P 
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 12, 2008, 09:57:41 PM
Quote from: jcims
If you get bored again, you could settle another old debate and see if it runs longer with the axle set horizontally.. :P 

Not that old Chestnut again LOL

If I have got time tomorrow I will give it a go at a 90 degree angle.

Will be interesting, as there is hardly any play in the axle on this Rig.

We shall see hehe :)

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: jcims on January 12, 2008, 10:02:53 PM
If I have got time tomorrow I will give it a go at a 90 degree angle.

Trust me, I'm accelerating those magnets to your location through sheer willpower, hopefully you have more much more fascinating endeavors taking up your time.. :;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: RunningBare on January 12, 2008, 10:12:56 PM
Quote from: jcims
If you get bored again, you could settle another old debate and see if it runs longer with the axle set horizontally.. :P 

Not that old Chestnut again LOL

If I have got time tomorrow I will give it a go at a 90 degree angle.

Will be interesting, as there is hardly any play in the axle on this Rig.

We shall see hehe :)



Can you do it while standing on your head juggling magnets?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 12, 2008, 10:20:48 PM
Quote from: RunningBare

Can you do it while standing on your head juggling magnets?

Thats easy as will be juggling the magnets in one hand?
ummm that leaves one hand free to video it I suppose  ;D


Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: jcims on January 12, 2008, 10:35:42 PM
Quote from: RunningBare

Can you do it while standing on your head juggling magnets?

Thats easy as will be juggling the magnets in one hand?
ummm that leaves one hand free to video it I suppose  ;D

Or you could bust out an old school headspin..magnets in each hand.  Get someone going the other way and you could have perpetual breakdancing.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Smit80 on January 12, 2008, 10:47:39 PM
Greetings, first post :)

Is the general consensus that this is an electrostatic device or purely magnetic? Im guessing the the jury is still out.

I must congratutlate CLaNZeR on his workmanship. That rig looks awesome!

CLaNZeR  I have a diametrically magnetised (N40) NdFeB ring magnet , If your in the NW I can pop it in the post although i understand your trying to stay as close to the original; I though it may come in handy...

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k285/Callidus80/Image1.jpg
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 12, 2008, 10:55:34 PM
Quote from: Smit80
Greetings, first post :)

CLaNZeR  I have a diametrically magnetised (N40) NdFeB ring magnet , If your in the NW I can pop it in the post although i understand your trying to stay as close to the original; I though it may come in handy...

Welcome to the forums Smit80

Thank you for your kind offer, but as you stated I will try and keep as close as I can to the original.

37mmm is huge, where did ya get that?

Many thanks anyway and appreciatted.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 12, 2008, 10:56:07 PM
Smit80,

This is categorically not an electrostatic device. The jury isn't out on this.It spins, to say the least, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: rotorhead on January 12, 2008, 10:58:41 PM
Smit80,

This is categorically not an electrostatic device. The jury isn't out on this.It spins, to say the least, doesn't it?
How is your replication Omnibus? Last I heard, you had all the magnets and materials. Is yours spinning yet?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 12, 2008, 11:03:51 PM
@rotorhead,

Read couple of pages back.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Smit80 on January 12, 2008, 11:04:28 PM
Thanks for the welcome :)

Yes it is huge and it has had my fingers more than once ;)

It came from china.... A good few years ago when the SEG showed its face I experimented with various setups.. Nothing as expertly engineered as what you have displayed.. But this was one of a few 'you never know when it will come in handy' purchases..

Recently I have been looking for magnet importers for size 130motors and the cheapest I have found is www.permanentmagnet.com they can do almost any size and orientation you request. I think they only accept T/T payment but bear-in-mind I have never purchased from them, so can not vouch for their reliability.

Oh the SEG that brings back memories..... lol
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 12, 2008, 11:08:21 PM
Quote from: Smit80
Oh the SEG that brings back memories..... lol

LOL Doesn't it just, I still got my membership and pop on the site every month, SOD all going on though apart from some videos last year, that I could create with normal magnets let alone custom made ones LOL  ;D ;D ;D

Shame they never released full info on the Searl Glass SEG as this would allow us normal people to replicate.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: rotorhead on January 12, 2008, 11:12:16 PM
@rotorhead,

Read couple of pages back.
Monday, huh? With all the delays everyone else is experiencing, I thought you might possibly be the first.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Nicolas Roger on January 13, 2008, 12:00:23 AM
Dusty has finish the new design for the LaFonte Group with proper materials .
Still waiting for the right magnet size.

see attachement
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: rotorhead on January 13, 2008, 12:11:46 AM
Dusty,

Looking GOOD! Do you have any 3/8" neo cubes you could squeeze into those stators and see what kind of reaction you get?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: vipond50 on January 13, 2008, 01:45:55 AM
Dusty has finish the new design with proper materials.
Still waiting for the right magnet size.

see attachement

ConGrads Dusty
Appears to be a very close replication  ;)  Really glad to see this !

Great work
B.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Nicolas Roger on January 13, 2008, 04:17:14 AM

ConGrads Dusty
Appears to be a very close replication  ;)  Really glad to see this !

Great work
B.

Yea the only other best replication i know is Al's own motor.  So if the LaFonte Group's replication doesnt spin, it will be interesting to here Al's explanations..
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: RunningBare on January 13, 2008, 04:45:24 AM

ConGrads Dusty
Appears to be a very close replication  ;)  Really glad to see this !

Great work
B.

Yea the only other best replication i know is Al's own motor.  So if the LaFonte Group's replication doesnt spin, it will be interesting to here Al's explanations..

Your not going to get an explanation, AL is pretty well convinced the cause is external EM fields such as those found in  house wiring or perhaps EM from local transmitters.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 13, 2008, 04:53:35 AM

ConGrads Dusty
Appears to be a very close replication  ;)  Really glad to see this !

Great work
B.

Yea the only other best replication i know is Al's own motor.  So if the LaFonte Group's replication doesnt spin, it will be interesting to here Al's explanations..
EM field is out of the question as an explanation. However, as I've said many times, if I see the effect from the video I will carry out also an experiment in a Faraday cage just to exclude through an experiment this ridiculous "explanation". If LaFonte or anybody else couldn't achieve the effect in question, the immediate explanation would be that the replication isn't exact and the conditions for proper timing haven't been met (excluding the possibility that @alsetalonkin's demonstration is an outright fraud).
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 13, 2008, 05:06:06 AM
Speaking of additional experiments which can be done by those who have the rotor now, while waiting for the rest of the parts to arrive (I don't have the rorot yet) is the following. Attach the rotor to a DC motor, spin it at, say, 400rpm and measure the current and the voltage. Then spin the same assembly at 1200rpm and again measure the current and the voltage in the course of, say, one hour to get the energy. This experiment will give us roughly the Joules needed to maintain the observed rpm after the effect kicks (the effect of producing energy out of nothing) in the actual experiment. Of course, we can then compare this experimental result with calculation of the kinetic energy using the moment of inertia of the disk.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Dyamios on January 13, 2008, 05:19:02 AM
Speaking of additional experiments which can be done by those who have the rotor now, while waiting for the rest of the parts to arrive (I don't have the rorot yet) is the following. Attach the rotor to a DC motor, spin it at, say, 400rpm and measure the current and the voltage. Then spin the same assembly at 1200rpm and again measure the current and the voltage in the course of, say, one hour to get the energy. This experiment will give us roughly the Joules needed to maintain the observed rpm after the effect kicks (the effect of producing energy out of nothing) in the actual experiment. Of course, we can then compare this experimental result with calculation of the kinetic energy using the moment of inertia of the disk.

Except DC motors aren't nearly 100% efficient, especially when used as a generator. It would be better just to calculate the rotational energy in joules the rotor has at 1200 RPM's and then, using the time it takes to spin down, calculate the friction being imparted on it.

Then you use the calculated friction (in joules), and use that as the amount of energy it would take to keep the rotor spinning at a constant speed (seeing as the friction is what slows it down; by adding the same amount of energy, it won't lose speed).
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 13, 2008, 05:37:07 AM
The calculation isn't as straightforward as you present it, although roughly it can be done. What you describe is approximately what I had in mind. As for the experiment which will give us a better idea for the effect, I'm not going to use the motor as a generator. I will mount the studied rotor onto the DC motor and will apply electric energy to the motor to spin it. The energy per unit time to spin that assembly at 400rpm will be the product of the current and the voltage I'll measure. I won't even need to correct it for the energy of the free spinning (without the rotor mounted) because I'll do the same measurement of the current and the voltage at 1200rpm. It would be interesting how the calculated and the experimental effect compare as well as the rough estimate of the energy produced out of nothing in th course of claimed 71/2 hours. Hope it's clearer now.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Dyamios on January 13, 2008, 05:41:46 AM
I guess I read your post wrong... its getting a bit past my bed time here  :P

That makes more sense. Still though, it wouldn't hurt to have the efficiency curve of the motor so you can help calculate waste energy vs. useful energy. After all, permanent magnets, given that they can indeed rotate the rotor, won't produce waste heat as electromagnetics do.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 13, 2008, 05:44:44 AM
Oh, no doubt about it. Efficiency curve has to be measured. Would be curious to see your details for such calculation of the waste which at different rpm will be different, of course.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 13, 2008, 05:51:11 AM
Maybe more telling will be to measure the transient voltage x current to get the rotor spin from 0 to 400rpm (which is the rpm due to the researcher's input). Integrated it would give the input energy. Gain in energy at 1200rpm (energy obtained from within, out of nothing) would be the difference of the integrated voltage x current curve (mostly horizontal also in the actual experiment, I suppose) integrated over, say, 1 hour minus what we got for the input energy.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Dyamios on January 13, 2008, 05:54:15 AM
Well you'd have to have a suitable equation for waste energy with regards to time 't'. Then after measuring how long it takes to get up to speed (time 'a'), you merely integrate the function from 0 to a, and the resulting value would be in some energy unit similar to Joules (that is, it could be converted without mis-matching temporal units).

Most motors have datasheets with efficiency curves (atleast I think they do), which often present some type of graph. Once you figure out the degree of the function presented, you can calculate a regression model using points presented on the graph. Then its as easy as integrating the function.

Hope that helps  ;)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 13, 2008, 05:57:22 AM
I though that's what I suggested above but I may be wrong.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Dyamios on January 13, 2008, 05:57:42 AM
Oh ok, your latter post would indeed be more telling. Although the energy calculated to spin up to 400rpms and then to 1200rpms would still be a bit off due to heat loss (thats all I'm really worried about).

I'll look for a generalized equation for DC motor efficiency.

EDIT: Sorry Omni, posted it before I saw it =P
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Dyamios on January 13, 2008, 06:01:42 AM
Alright, here's what I found to be the equation for efficiency:
efficiency = (Torque in in-oz)*(speed in rev/sec)/((current in amps)*(voltage in volts)*22.5)

The only issue is finding out what the torque is (given there is no data sheet) and measuring current and voltage accurately over time.


But in order to find the energy in Joules that was imparted as useful energy, you would have to integrate a different function incorporating the immediate energy being used:

Useful Energy = (((Torque in in-oz)*(speed in rev/sec)/((current in amps)*(voltage in volts)*22.5))*((current in amps)(voltage in volts)))



EDIT: I've just read that standard DC motors generally have an efficiency of around 50%, with brushless coming in around 60%. Thus it is critical that we calculate accurately instead of merely using current*voltage, as that would be wayyy off.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 13, 2008, 06:08:39 AM
Thanks @Dyamios. That efficiency equation isn't obvious to me but I guess it's some sort of an empirical equation. Very useful information, though. Hope to discuss this more with you when I get some results from the experiments. Can't wait.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Dyamios on January 13, 2008, 06:11:42 AM
Alrighty, sure thing.

If you present me with some graphs of voltage and current over time, I can form regression models and plug them into the "Useful Energy" equation of my previous post.

From there we can integrate and come up with the final value.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 13, 2008, 06:17:25 AM
Ordered today a laser tachometer but who knows how long it would take to get to the US. Will have to borrow from someone while waiting. Also, have to find a proper DC motor for this purpose. Any suggestions? As a Faraday cage I'm thinking of using a metal file cabinet covered by a metal gauze on top to see what's going on inside.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 13, 2008, 06:19:12 AM
Thanks. Will send you data to discuss as soon as I get them.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 13, 2008, 06:25:24 AM
Later I'd like to get a tachometer with an RS-232 to have the rpm monitored continuously throughout the entire period of working of the device. Very expensive, though.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 13, 2008, 06:27:06 AM
@Omni

Have you recieved all your parts for replication yet ?

Cheers,

Dean
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Dyamios on January 13, 2008, 06:29:36 AM
Oh, good thing you got the tachometer. I just noticed that the useful energy equation calls for rpms as well.

As far as DC motors go, any type will do really. Just make sure it can get up to the desired RPM (and preferably higher).

And for a faraday cage, any fine metal/copper mesh will due. Most EM wavelengths which would interfere are far too long to penetrate a 16th inch mesh or something around there. Just look at the front of your microwave. That little mesh can block 700 watts of 2.4ghz radiation.

Although solid metal shielding would work just as well.


On another note, when performing the experiment, it would be beneficial to videotape all the meters and tachometer and such so it's easier to consolidate and measure the data later. Otherwise you'd need a lot of people watching and plotting each one.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 13, 2008, 06:31:58 AM
Not yet. I got the magnets, was expecting the bearings today but didn't get them and the parts are probably gonna be ready by Monday, hopefully. They were supposed to be ready by tomorrow (Saturday) but things never work as expected, especially when you're so anxious to start as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Dyamios on January 13, 2008, 06:32:04 AM
Oh, and the data doesn't have to be like... 10 data points/sec, so an RS232 tachometer isn't really necessary. Even 1/sec - 1/4sec would be fine (since it would be possible to form a regression model after plotting the data points).
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 13, 2008, 06:35:55 AM
See, I'm more concerned about the effect itself which has to be documented in detail. That's why the RS-232. You know what ridiculous questions are asked. One would do better to be as thorough as possible.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 13, 2008, 06:37:16 AM
Tomorrow will try to pull out the bearing from several hard drives. Can't wait until Monday. Does anyone have any experience in that?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Dyamios on January 13, 2008, 06:38:29 AM
Very true, very true. Well, you're free to do whatever you please. If you want a RS232 Tachometer, then by all means get one! Thats the amazing thing about being human  ;)


I've taken apart many a harddrive in my day. The modern ones seem to have the bearings somehow riveted in, glued, or otherwise permanently secured in the metal casing. Some have screws holding them in, but the head type is often obsure or weird such that they are nearly impossible to remove.

Are you looking for a specific type of bearing? I've got a surplus store not far from me which has many different types.
-------------------
Bed time for me
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Nicolas Roger on January 13, 2008, 07:24:10 AM
We posted the LaFonte Group replication video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dRYz1fl98k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dRYz1fl98k)

Note: We are still waiting for the proper sized magnets to arrive.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: sveinutne on January 13, 2008, 07:25:48 AM
Tomorrow will try to pull out the bearing from several hard drives. Can't wait until Monday. Does anyone have any experience in that?

Yes, I have opened several HDD, and they spin OK, but use the HDD casing and spindler, just flip it around. Then you can build a Al rotor in 1 hour. I did that yesterday, but my stator magnet is not right, so it will not self run. (yet), but I can make it sync in non gear mode, and that is good.( both are running CW or CCW).
Svein
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 13, 2008, 07:29:54 AM
@ Omni

I am very keen to replicate but still cautious as to whether this is a joke of some kind. I will be a 2nd gen replicator for sure.
The design reminds me of a crop circle I saw once a long time ago. see: http://www.cropcirclesecrets.org/predictions98.html
Its all very exciting though, cant wait to see how you go. Good Luck

Dean
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 13, 2008, 07:35:23 AM
We posted the LaFonte Group replication video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dRYz1fl98k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dRYz1fl98k)

Note: We are still waiting for the proper sized magnets to arrive.

@Nicolas

Is this built directly from jdo's spec sheets ?

Good work BTW

Cheers,

Dean
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Nicolas Roger on January 13, 2008, 07:42:02 AM
I can't tell (because i simply don't know).
But our builder was sure aware of those spec sheets.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Harvey on January 13, 2008, 08:15:42 AM
@ clanzer

I think your getting some false triggering from the transparency and opacity with the magnets. That looked a lot slower than 73 RPM at the end.

It looks like your bearing efficiency is even better if your initial RPM's were actually 1/8 (assuming the tach was triggering off the mags) of 1000 !

Time for some black tape around the circumference and a reflectodot  :D

Cheers!
Good Job so far
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ebswift on January 13, 2008, 08:20:37 AM
Tomorrow will try to pull out the bearing from several hard drives. Can't wait until Monday. Does anyone have any experience in that?
The parts come apart fairly easily.  If you want to disassemble the main drive motor to remove the coils and ring magnet, you drive or press the main shaft out of the base (the shaft is driven out from the base where you can see it in the middle of the motor in the bearings_024 image below).  That doesn't take a great deal of force.  Once that's open, if you work around the coils with a flathead screwdriver the coils will work loose and fall out.  You normally only have to work the coils in a circle twice over.  If you work the coils apart without touching the base you can do this without any scaring (not that scaring will matter too much in here; if you are too rough you can end up with a couple of sharp jaggies sticking up that may grab the top part when you re-assemble, but if necessary you can file those away without affecting smoothness when it's spinning).

At the ring magnet end, generally (depending on the age of the motor) you will see that it is contained inside a metal ring which is pressed onto the top of the motor assembly.  With a pair of adjustable pliers/multigrips or a vice you can progressively squeeze that metal ring from a few angles and it will pop off without scaring anything.  You can then gently knock the assembly back together and it will be a free-spinning bearing without the coils & magnets.

edit: here are the kinds of bits you end up retrieving (these are from older drives):

http://www.ebswift.com/WhipMag/Bearings_022.jpg
http://www.ebswift.com/WhipMag/Bearings_024.jpg
http://www.ebswift.com/WhipMag/Bearings_025.jpg
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jdo300 on January 13, 2008, 08:45:37 AM
Hi All,

Looking good so far! Omnibus, great to hear that you'll be ready to roll by Monday. As for everyone else, about when do you all expect to start preliminary testing?

In the meantime, I was thinking that it may be a good idea to put together a PDF with a listing of different experiments that we should all try. I've seen many people come up with lots of good ideas but perhaps it would be a good idea to come up with something like this before we all start testing (especially if we all manage to get it working). Then we will all have a set of standards to follow so we can compare data. If you are interested, just post your test ideas (old and new), and I'll see if I can compile a file for everyone.

Speaking of which, did Al ever see if he could get the motor to sync up with only one stator? Or did he always have to start it with three and then stop the first two?

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: hydrocontrol on January 13, 2008, 08:58:57 AM
@ Omni

I am very keen to replicate but still cautious as to whether this is a joke of some kind. I will be a 2nd gen replicator for sure.
The design reminds me of a crop circle I saw once a long time ago. see: http://www.cropcirclesecrets.org/predictions98.html
Its all very exciting though, cant wait to see how you go. Good Luck

Dean
Wow.. That is interesting... Got the below image from your link..
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 13, 2008, 09:14:36 AM
@Hydro,

I am not trying to detract from the science or to imply a metaphysic is involved, though the image did inspire me to create my own magnet motor designs. I am in russia now so not really sure where to go to get parts or machining done, might be something of a challenge. Cant wait for the green light from a serious replication though. Chomping at the bit here ;)

Cheers,

Dean
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: sveinutne on January 13, 2008, 09:44:20 AM
I have looked at Al's and also my rotor and when running the stator and rotor the same direction they will lock up like I have show on the drawing.

When the stator and rotor magnets are at the closes to each other (like in drawing 1).

The magnet will be reduced in strength. Then in drawing 2, we should have divided it up in several shots, because so much is happening here. Fist we have a breaking effect. The stator and rotor are in attraction, but are moving away from each other. During this phase the magnets are increasing in strength and when we get to the position shown in picture 2 the stator magnets start to feel the next rotor magnet and we are getting a net pull or gain on the rotor. Now the magnets are recovering in strength and we are getting a stronger pull because the magnets are now stronger. In picture 3, the magnets are weakened again.


In situation 1 and 3 we have strong braking and acceleration, but the net transfer of power between the rotor and stator is close to zero.


My theory is that most of the gain or transfer of energy is in picture two because of this magnetic lag and change of magnetic strength on the magnets.


Where the magnets are getting the energy that are building up this strength in the magnet I do not know.


It would be interesting to simulate this in FEMM. Any takers?

If we look at the stator magnet and say it is rotating at 6000 rpm, to make the calculation easy. That will be 100 rev. per second or 36 degrees per millisecond. If the lag time is 1 millisecond, it will rotate 36 degrees before it fully recovers its strength and that is good. If we want to run at a much lower speed we should use magnets with longer lag time.

Svein
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: JAG on January 13, 2008, 10:53:06 AM
Hi All,

Looking good so far! Omnibus, great to hear that you'll be ready to roll by Monday. As for everyone else, about when do you all expect to start preliminary testing?

In the meantime, I was thinking that it may be a good idea to put together a PDF with a listing of different experiments that we should all try. I've seen many people come up with lots of good ideas but perhaps it would be a good idea to come up with something like this before we all start testing (especially if we all manage to get it working). Then we will all have a set of standards to follow so we can compare data. If you are interested, just post your test ideas (old and new), and I'll see if I can compile a file for everyone.

Speaking of which, did Al ever see if he could get the motor to sync up with only one stator? Or did he always have to start it with three and then stop the first two?

God Bless,
Jason O

Hi Jason,

Great minds think alike

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3906.0.html
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 13, 2008, 11:09:52 AM
@All

I am still not clear on whether the JDO specifications are exactly what Al has built or not ?
Can anyone clarify this, it seems a grey area, or did i miss a post regarding this?

Dean
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: yorkshireminer on January 13, 2008, 12:01:32 PM
Dear Friends,
it seems the old rumour mill has started to grind, I got this from the web site of Magnetic Power Inc. Mark Goldes is always putting puff pieces on his site about how his machine is just around the corner. But does he really know something we don't know.

Quote:-
 
A handful of videos that (briefly) appeared on the internet have stimulated a flurry of interest in magnetic motors that may be made to self-run, without any obvious outside source of input energy. At least one of them apparently worked well enough, for the 22 year old inventor to now be cooperating with a potential manufacturer, in order to market his device.  While skeptics abound (and without independent laboratory confirmation, have excellent reason to be skeptical) these experiments may have opened a door to wider appreciation of an extremely important potential for rapidly reducing our dependency on fossil fuels.


Deep regards

Yorkshire Miner
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: rotorhead on January 13, 2008, 12:11:11 PM
Dear Friends,
it seems the old rumour mill has started to grind, I got this from the web site of Magnetic Power Inc. Mark Goldes is always putting puff pieces on his site about how his machine is just around the corner. But does he really know something we don't know.

Quote:-
 
A handful of videos that (briefly) appeared on the internet have stimulated a flurry of interest in magnetic motors that may be made to self-run, without any obvious outside source of input energy. At least one of them apparently worked well enough, for the 22 year old inventor to now be cooperating with a potential manufacturer, in order to market his device.  While skeptics abound (and without independent laboratory confirmation, have excellent reason to be skeptical) these experiments may have opened a door to wider appreciation of an extremely important potential for rapidly reducing our dependency on fossil fuels.


Deep regards

Yorkshire Miner
If he's talking about WhipMag, he's got some of his facts wrong (as usual). If this is some other magnet motor, more power to the inventor. I hope he makes it.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: FunkyJive on January 13, 2008, 12:39:54 PM
Quote
At least one of them apparently worked well enough, for the 22 year old inventor to now be cooperating with a potential manufacturer, in order to market his device. 


Hmmm... I guess that the marketed version would have to be considerably modified if prior art (as already plastered all over the forums and YouTube) is not to scupper plans to monopolise and capitalise on its marketed potential. Alternatively, there's the registered designs route, though plenty of scope I'm sure for all manner of incarnations of this very interesting device.

Probably a good time soon to experiment with suitable means of generating energy from the magnet motor and publicise them, particularly to stop anyone monopolising on such through patent channels. Doing so could then effectively deny anyone else the right to exploit the invention for all manner of potential good  ;)


All the best,

FunkyJive
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 13, 2008, 12:43:52 PM
Dear Friends,
it seems the old rumour mill has started to grind, I got this from the web site of Magnetic Power Inc. Mark Goldes is always putting puff pieces on his site about how his machine is just around the corner. But does he really know something we don't know.

Quote:-
 
A handful of videos that (briefly) appeared on the Internet have stimulated a flurry of interest in magnetic motors that may be made to self-run, without any obvious outside source of input energy. At least one of them apparently worked well enough, for the 22 year old inventor to now be cooperating with a potential manufacturer, in order to market his device.  While skeptics abound (and without independent laboratory confirmation, have excellent reason to be skeptical) these experiments may have opened a door to wider appreciation of an extremely important potential for rapidly reducing our dependency on fossil fuels.


Deep regards

Yorkshire Miner

Al is a lot older than 22 and the last thing I can imagine him doing is co-operating with a manufacturer.
If it's true it must be someone else.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: RunningBare on January 13, 2008, 12:48:45 PM

Al is a lot older than 22 and the last thing I can imagine him doing is co-operating with a manufacturer.
If it's true it must be someone else.

Yeah, and the words "true" and "Magnetic power inc" do not go together well.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 13, 2008, 12:52:29 PM
Al is a lot older than 22 and the last thing I can imagine him doing is co-operating with a manufacturer.
If it's true it must be someone else.

How old is OC ?

Maybe the author was not implying that it might be Al partnering with a manufacturer.

And even so, who would blame him in doing so ?

Dean
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: FunkyJive on January 13, 2008, 12:59:03 PM
Quote
...and the last thing I can imagine him doing is co-operating with a manufacturer

I guess most men have their price, and as Dean said "Who could blame him?".

I am aware of good past ideas and inventions going the way of monopolisation and then market suppression, but fundamentally this certainly holds promise of a major discovery that should absolutely not be suppressed.


All the best,

FunkyJive
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: rotorhead on January 13, 2008, 01:11:21 PM
Al is a lot older than 22 and the last thing I can imagine him doing is co-operating with a manufacturer.
If it's true it must be someone else.

How old is OC ?

Maybe the author was not implying that it might be Al partnering with a manufacturer.

And even so, who would blame him in doing so ?

Dean

OC is older than Al, and he has absolutely no plans to partner with anyone. The tech is free for the taking.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: RunningBare on January 13, 2008, 01:12:06 PM
Al is a lot older than 22 and the last thing I can imagine him doing is co-operating with a manufacturer.
If it's true it must be someone else.

How old is OC ?




Older than 22.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: canam101 on January 13, 2008, 01:33:13 PM
Since the tech is free for the taking, anybody can cash in on it by being the first one to manufacture a toy or even something that does something useful.

It would be nice to think somebody is in fact doing this, since it would mean one person has replicated the device, but it's more likely typical Goldes rubbish.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 13, 2008, 01:35:16 PM
@ clanzer

I think your getting some false triggering from the transparency and opacity with the magnets. That looked a lot slower than 73 RPM at the end.

It looks like your bearing efficiency is even better if your initial RPM's were actually 1/8 (assuming the tach was triggering off the mags) of 1000 !

Time for some black tape around the circumference and a reflectodot  :D

Hi Harvey

I usually spray the Rotors black and pop the reflective spot on or as you suggest black tape, With the transparent Rotor it does play up else at slower revs.
But for the time wind downs it was good enough hehe

Will get it sorted for the next one!.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 13, 2008, 04:21:07 PM
Since the tech is free for the taking, anybody can cash in on it by being the first one to manufacture a toy or even something that does something useful.

It would be nice to think somebody is in fact doing this, since it would mean one person has replicated the device, but it's more likely typical Goldes rubbish.

I kind of admire and pity OC and AL all at the same time .. if this is the real deal all the world will really remember is the GE portable energy unit
coming out most likely.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Dyamios on January 13, 2008, 05:12:22 PM
Since the tech is free for the taking, anybody can cash in on it by being the first one to manufacture a toy or even something that does something useful.

It would be nice to think somebody is in fact doing this, since it would mean one person has replicated the device, but it's more likely typical Goldes rubbish.

I kind of admire and pity OC and AL all at the same time .. if this is the real deal all the world will really remember is the GE portable energy unit
coming out most likely.



It's open source though. Thus, while GE may be able to manufacture models, they can't claim exclusive rights to the technology. I mean, you don't see one company manufacturing car engines. Many do, and that's because its open technology.

It's actually kind of better that way. It incites competition, and thus brings about better, improved technologies.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 13, 2008, 05:13:39 PM
Well gawd that was boring filming that LOL  ;D ;D

If you get bored again, you could settle another old debate and see if it runs longer with the axle set horizontally.. :P 

Movie on link below Just for you JCIMS!

2 minute gain, Vertical we get 10 minutes 30 seconds Wind Down.
http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/CLaNZeRSVERTICALRotor2Test.wmv

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/vertical.jpg)

If all failes I think I will use this loose Rotor for a pulse motor  ;D

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ken_nyus on January 13, 2008, 05:18:18 PM
Dear Friends,
it seems the old rumour mill has started to grind, I got this from the web site of Magnetic Power Inc. Mark Goldes is always putting puff pieces on his site about how his machine is just around the corner. But does he really know something we don't know.

Quote:-
 
A handful of videos that (briefly) appeared on the internet have stimulated a flurry of interest in magnetic motors that may be made to self-run, without any obvious outside source of input energy. At least one of them apparently worked well enough, for the 22 year old inventor to now be cooperating with a potential manufacturer, in order to market his device.  While skeptics abound (and without independent laboratory confirmation, have excellent reason to be skeptical) these experiments may have opened a door to wider appreciation of an extremely important potential for rapidly reducing our dependency on fossil fuels.


Deep regards

Yorkshire Miner

That might be a reference to the Xpensif (spelling?) screw motor, which disappeared after saying he had some interest.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ken_nyus on January 13, 2008, 05:51:36 PM
Dusty has finish the new design for the LaFonte Group with proper materials .
Still waiting for the right magnet size.

see attachement

I see there is video of this one up now, no running or AGW sync...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dRYz1fl98k
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 13, 2008, 06:00:00 PM
One last Wind Down post from me, I decided to spin it upto 3000 RPM before putting away the air line and surprising how fast the drop off is at between 3000-1000 RPM. Heres a graph, oh with Rotor back to normal on it's back :) .

Off to make some stator magnets out of summit hehe., I hope those bloody proper ones arrive tomorrow grrrrrrrrr

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/3000rpmgraph.jpg)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 13, 2008, 06:42:13 PM
Think I might of got my first latch while playing around with those small 6mm

I joined them together with a bit of tape and stuck them on the Stator bearings:

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/Smini1.jpg)

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/latch1.jpg)

Heres a short movie showing you what I mean.

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/CLaNZeRSlatch2.wmv

Cheers

Sean.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: fritz on January 13, 2008, 06:50:41 PM

3000 RPM ?

Thats 180km/h at the border of the disc.
If the drop from 3000 to 1500 is due to aerodynamics
you can verify that by making a spindown without stator magnets.
Anyway, be careful, can be quite dramatic if the stuff
starts to disassemble with 50m/s.

rgds.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: mikestocks2006 on January 13, 2008, 06:57:54 PM
Think I might of got my first latch while playing around with those small 6mm

Heres a short movie showing you what I mean.

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/CLaNZeRSlatch2.wmv

Cheers

Sean.



Yep it looks like it, nice.

Sean, on the wind down graph, what is the significance if any of the 648.2 rpm level line?
Thanks
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: RunningBare on January 13, 2008, 07:20:57 PM
Think I might of got my first latch while playing around with those small 6mm

I joined them together with a bit of tape and stuck them on the Stator bearings:


Heres a short movie showing you what I mean.

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/CLaNZeRSlatch2.wmv

Cheers

Sean.



Nice work

I managed to get AGW lock but I had to keep the rotor spinning manually at a near constant speed, if you can find the speed of the rotor while the stator was AGW you might have something to work with.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: TheOne on January 13, 2008, 07:34:51 PM
Think I might of got my first latch while playing around with those small 6mm

I joined them together with a bit of tape and stuck them on the Stator bearings:

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/Smini1.jpg)

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/latch1.jpg)

Heres a short movie showing you what I mean.

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/CLaNZeRSlatch2.wmv

Cheers

Sean.

Wow, that look like it.

Something you can also try is to spin the rotor with your hand and spin the little one with your air machine, maybe the little one need to spin really fast to start turning on his own
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Aphiticus on January 13, 2008, 07:39:17 PM
Hi Sean,

I noticed that the two stator magnets that spin with the rotor have a tendency to put serious drag on the rotor.  You might want to try the experiment without them and see if you can get in sync easier doing your reverse spin.  Or try doing the reverse spin on multiple stator magnets.

Just trying to help,

Keep up the great work

Adam 
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: MeggerMan on January 13, 2008, 07:43:52 PM
Hi Sean,
Looking good so far...
I did some tests last night and found that if I move the stator magnet to just above the rotor magnets(held by hand) I could get it to turn AGW quite easily.
With the rotor in the correct place it is very difficult. Still waiting for correct magnets too.
I think the stators need a lot more mass to allow it to even out its rotation at the slower speeds.
The stator has nearly no inertia because of its small diameter, which means the slowest the rotor/stator may sync is quite a high speed.
Its interesting that you got a better run time running the device on the vertical, must be something to do with the number of contact surfaces that the balls in the bearings are in contact with.
I see you ordered the HDPE, so you need to re-order the Acetal (Delrin) instead, its not wasted as you can try both now.
I suppose when the design is more proven you could go for a top plate, bottom plate to hold bearing for rotor and stators, just like in a watch/clock.
Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 13, 2008, 07:54:32 PM
ummmm interesting that if I jam one Stator magnet back so it cannot rotate I can get the Latch very easly.

I am not taking this too seriously till I get the correct Stator magnets, but thx for all the tips and input guys.

Another video too show what I mean  ;D

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/CLaNZeRSlatch3.wmv

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Rosphere on January 13, 2008, 08:05:27 PM
ummmm interesting that if I jam one Stator magnet back so it cannot rotate I can get the Latch very easly.

I am not taking this too seriously till I get the correct Stator magnets, but thx for all the tips and input guys.

Another video too show what I mean  ;D

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/CLaNZeRSlatch3.wmv



Looking good.  When do you get those new stators again?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: rotorhead on January 13, 2008, 08:09:48 PM
ummmm interesting that if I jam one Stator magnet back so it cannot rotate I can get the Latch very easly.

I am not taking this too seriously till I get the correct Stator magnets, but thx for all the tips and input guys.

Another video too show what I mean  ;D

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/CLaNZeRSlatch3.wmv


If my ears are not deceiving me, it almost sounded like a brief speed-up when the stator synced AGW. Could you check that?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 13, 2008, 08:17:15 PM
Quote from: TheOne
Something you can also try is to spin the rotor with your hand and spin the little one with your air machine, maybe the little one need to spin really fast to start turning on his own

Good idea, will go do that now.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: geodan on January 13, 2008, 08:21:34 PM
Nice work!!

Are the other two stators doing anything for you at all??
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: jcims on January 13, 2008, 08:21:48 PM
Well gawd that was boring filming that LOL  ;D ;D

If you get bored again, you could settle another old debate and see if it runs longer with the axle set horizontally.. :P 

Movie on link below Just for you JCIMS!
2 minute gain, Vertical we get 10 minutes 30 seconds Wind Down.

Yay!  Now i just need to wrap the video with one of the old GI Joe cartoon 'now you know' public service announcements. :)

Thanks!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Aphiticus on January 13, 2008, 08:24:52 PM
Hey guys, i had a theory about how this might work, but i do lack alot of knowledge in alot of areas so let me know what you think.

1.  The magnets just get in sync doing the reverse spin on the stator and that keeps it moving.

2.  The stator magnet when doing a reverse spin creates some kind of kinetic energy which passes through the rotor causing the magnets to be pushed along.  Kinda like in a DC motor. 

Well, those are passing thoughts.  Would love to hear others thoughts as well.

Adam
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: vipond50 on January 13, 2008, 08:27:23 PM
Quote from: TheOne
Something you can also try is to spin the rotor with your hand and spin the little one with your air machine, maybe the little one need to spin really fast to start turning on his own

Good idea, will go do that now.


Hi
One thing that has not been determined is the Stator mags height to the center line heights of the Rotor mags.
CLaNZeR this might be something to work also while waiting for your mags. In all the work ups including Al description i do not recall this measurement.
Something to consider.
BTW....Looking Good C.

Bill
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Rosphere on January 13, 2008, 08:28:18 PM
@CLaNZeR,

Your third video appears to have the "magneto kinetic Jetson damper" added?  Would you care to elaborate?  (Sorry if I missed it earlier.)

EDIT: Also seen in the fourth video as well.  (Circled in image below.)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: MeggerMan on January 13, 2008, 08:30:18 PM
Hi Sean,
I have to agree with rotorhead, the stator closest to the cam does appear to speed up slightly for a very short time.
Its hard to tell.
I really am now looking forward to the results with the correct magnets.

I hope to have some N42 12mm OD x 6mm diametric disks by Monday. I am tempted to send you 3 so you can perform a better test.
With first class post you could have them by Tuesday if they turn up tomorrow.

Do you know when the K&J magnets were dispatched?

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 13, 2008, 08:37:37 PM
Well spinning the Stator magnet using Air certainly will stop me taking skin off my fingers!!!

Heres some latching with 1 Stator Fixed again, 1 Stator loose and of course the latcher!.
Also in the same video latching with just 1 Stator, again using the airline.

And yep it does sound to initially speed up when it latches as you can hear.
I will get the Tacho connected back up and see if we can catch it.

Got to go try eat this end, as had nothing all day LOL  ;D ;D ;D

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/CLaNZeRSlatch4.wmv

P.S Sorry the videos are so big but I want to try and keep them atleast 640 * 480 resolution, so you can see what is actually happening.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: TheOne on January 13, 2008, 08:45:26 PM
Nice job Sean!

I really think this motor will work with the proper magnet due to what i see from your video!

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Freezer on January 13, 2008, 08:49:23 PM
And yep it does sound to initially speed up when it latches as you can hear.

 :o

Looks like the stator has a little play in it, and could be giving it a little extra energy at the right time.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: geodan on January 13, 2008, 08:51:25 PM
SWEET!!!  the only thing I'd say is that you might be working against the rotation of the rotor by squirting air in from that angle, perhaps from another direction it might be more productive?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: blue_energy on January 13, 2008, 09:03:40 PM
Hello all.  First post.  I have been lurking here for the past 3 days until I had read through all of the posts.  Pretty exciting stuff!  I've also read most of the Steorn Whipmag posts - as I have been keeping track of that forum throughout the various rises and falls of adrenaline for quite awhile. 

One thing bothers me - and maybe I'm being naive.  There seems to be one measurement missing from the Al Whipmag specification: the strength of each of the magnets used.  Wouldn't that play a major part in determining the speed at which the rotor would need to be rotating in order to get the effect?  In Al's description he talks about the distance maintained between the rotor magnets and the stators.  That would seem to be half of what is needed to determine the 'gear' stability between them - the other half would be the combined attraction/repulsion of the magnets involved at that distance.  It would seem that stronger magnets might require more distance to achieve the same effect - and weaker magnets would require less.

Am I missing something?  Do all magnets of a given composition and shape have the same magnetic characteristics?  Aren't magnets sold by their degree of magnetization in addition to their size? 

Sorry in advance for my naivete if it turns out that there is a key piece of knowledge that I am lacking.

Also, although it is premature for the moment, I would like to offer the potential of my (free) services as a database programmer once digitally collected data begins to become available.  I can write software to parse and perform some digital signal processing on data that is collected and output graphs or whatever.  I did this for drmike on the Steorn forum for his magnetic viscosity experiment and it was fun and satisfying.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 13, 2008, 09:17:03 PM
Well spinning the Stator magnet using Air certainly will stop me taking skin off my fingers!!!

Here's some latching with 1 Stator Fixed again, 1 Stator loose and of course the latcher!.
Also in the same video latching with just 1 Stator, again using the airline.

And yep it does sound to initially speed up when it latches as you can hear.
I will get the Tacho connected back up and see if we can catch it.

Got to go try eat this end, as had nothing all day LOL  ;D ;D ;D

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/CLaNZeRSlatch4.wmv

P.S Sorry the videos are so big but I want to try and keep them at least 640 * 480 resolution, so you can see what is actually happening.


That's amazing. I thought I could hear the acceleration in the first case and in the second it sounded just like an engine trying to pick up.

I've got Broadband (Zen Lite -Maximum download speed (Mbps)  8.0) and the video downloaded quite quickly for me.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: jcims on January 13, 2008, 09:18:19 PM
And yep it does sound to initially speed up when it latches as you can hear.
I will get the Tacho connected back up and see if we can catch it.
There will probably always be a small bit of an energy transfer from the stator to the rotor as it enters into the sync range, but in this case there is such a difference between masses i wouldn't expect that to be very large at all.

(Edit: Oh, and i think we all appreciate the quality of the videos...no apologies necessary!)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Localjoe on January 13, 2008, 09:32:31 PM
Funny how after hearing that clip i completely agree... I think you folks may actually have it hear... You know take just before Christmas... tpu was getting close a few other ideas were maturing and what do we have now... A dam near finished tpu base design and a possible perpetual mob ilium that has showed the most promise ive ever seen ... Whether there is a greater power out there or that power consists of many minds thinking in a positive direction.. somethings looking down on us. :)
                                                                                 Joe
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 13, 2008, 09:38:24 PM
Funny how after hearing that clip i completely agree... I think you folks may actually have it here... You know, take just before Christmas... tpu was getting close a few other ideas were maturing and what do we have now... A damn near finished tpu base design and a possible perpetual mobilium that has showed the most promise I've ever seen ... Whether there is a greater power out there or that power consists of many minds thinking in a positive direction.. something's looking down on us. :)
                                                                                 Joe
Nikola Tesla probably.  ::)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: schoolboy2000 on January 13, 2008, 09:48:43 PM
Hi CLaNZeR,

In the 2nd to last video:

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/CLaNZeRSlatch2.wmv

I don't see the upper left stator sync\spin till the very end, and "right after" it does, your latching (opposite spin) stator seems to make things happen. In Al's video it looks like both outside stators spin all the time and, actually, all three, until Al spins the latching one backwards to speed things up. Could be that upper left stator may be vertically off by a hair ? Or ? Anyone ?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: schoolboy2000 on January 13, 2008, 09:51:08 PM
CLaNZeR,

Oh, other than that observation, I think congratulations are in order, you're on the right track !!! Maybe switch the outside stators and see if the bundle of rings are behaving differently, might just solve it when you get the actual one piece rings.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: mudwump on January 13, 2008, 09:57:14 PM
http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/CLaNZeRSlatch4.wmv (http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/CLaNZeRSlatch4.wmv)

Congratulations CLaNZeR, I heard an increase in the spin of the rotor. I think the award for first replication goes to you.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 13, 2008, 10:12:03 PM
hi clanzer great stuff glad i goaded you into trying an alternative magnet. My short video posted previously  does not show much but there is a definate change of tone when you anti gear the stator ,don?t forget i am using all the wrong measurements too lol..this may be easier to replicate than we think. i hope so..I can?t understand why the other replication  does not achieve the anti gear , perhaps he needs to use air line or dremil to get the speed up.

There may be a simple formula behind all of this, all very exciting so far
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 13, 2008, 10:19:47 PM
Your third video appears to have the "magneto kinetic Jetson damper" added?  Would you care to elaborate?  (Sorry if I missed it earlier.)
EDIT: Also seen in the fourth video as well.  (Circled in image below.)

Hi Rosphere

Nothing to elaborate on really, just lathed down some aluminium as per specs by AL and in the plans by JDO.

I spaced them with about 4mm gap from the outside of the Rotor.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 13, 2008, 10:22:58 PM
I really am now looking forward to the results with the correct magnets.

I hope to have some N42 12mm OD x 6mm diametric disks by Monday. I am tempted to send you 3 so you can perform a better test.
With first class post you could have them by Tuesday if they turn up tomorrow.

Do you know when the K&J magnets were dispatched?

Hi Rob

Thanks for the kind offer but as usual I will decline, got enough too keep me occupied and was not going to play with any other stator config until trying the original, but blame it on my mate Craigy grrrrrrrrrr LOL  ;D

I ordered my magnets from KJ last Saturday I think as soon as I saw the Video, lest hope they have not put their outside USA orders to the back :(

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 13, 2008, 10:25:03 PM
Looks like the stator has a little play in it, and could be giving it a little extra energy at the right time.

The Rotor is rock solid with not even 0.5mm play, I made sure of that :)
The Stators at the moment are just dropped into the 3mm RC bearings and do lift a bit. I will wait for the correct Stator magnets to arrive before securing proper as such!

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 13, 2008, 10:26:29 PM
SWEET!!!  the only thing I'd say is that you might be working against the rotation of the rotor by squirting air in from that angle, perhaps from another direction it might be more productive?

Yep agree, but also atleast people cannot say the Air Line is speeding up the Rotor  ;D like you pointed out it shoudl slow it down.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 13, 2008, 10:30:11 PM
Hi CLaNZeR,

In the 2nd to last video:

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/CLaNZeRSlatch2.wmv

I don't see the upper left stator sync\spin till the very end, and "right after" it does, your latching (opposite spin) stator seems to make things happen. In Al's video it looks like both outside stators spin all the time and, actually, all three, until Al spins the latching one backwards to speed things up. Could be that upper left stator may be vertically off by a hair ? Or ? Anyone ?

Hi SC2000

I have found so far by locking the top left magnet I can get it to sync better than if it is running.
No idea why, could be to do with the strange field these magnets create when joined together like they are. I will not even try to analyse it too much and would prefer too spend the brain work on the real stator magnets when they arrive.

One thing worth noting, moving any of the magnets 2mm wider or closer stops the syncing. I have tried too keep the Stators 4-5mm from edge of the Rotor.

Cheers

Sean.
 
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 13, 2008, 10:35:33 PM
Sean check your mail,,,
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 13, 2008, 10:37:02 PM
Sean check your mail,,,

Have done mate, and many thanks!!!

Cannot believe the video you sent and I think you should REALLY make it public mate.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: noncents on January 13, 2008, 10:41:34 PM
Hey Guys,
Are you trying to make us nuts here? Well, Ok more nuts. Post it up.  >:(
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: schoolboy2000 on January 13, 2008, 10:43:16 PM
Craigy,

Share with the rest of your classmates ;) Loving the posts today !
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Dyamios on January 13, 2008, 10:43:51 PM
Sean check your mail,,,

Have done mate, and many thanks!!!

Cannot believe the video you sent and I think you should REALLY make it public mate.

Cheers

Sean.


Does it work?

Craig, I don't want to be one of those intrusive types, but it would be appreciated if you make it public. We, or I anyways, would promise not harass you like poor Al was. Or at the least would it be possible to get a private copy for review?

Of course, its all up to you.  ;)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 13, 2008, 10:44:29 PM
You little devil Sean!

Don?t suppose it will do any harm , someone in the spdc claims to have achieved a 20 second constant speed run, sorry can?t say any more than that..
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 13, 2008, 10:45:30 PM
Does it work?

Craig, I don't want to be one of those intrusive types, but it would be appreciated if you make it public. We, or I anyways, would promise not harass you like poor Al was. Or at the least would it be possible to get a private copy for review?

Of course, its all up to you.  ;)

Before this gets out of hand, it was not a Video that involved a Rotor of any sort hehehe  ;D
I could of dragged it on longer, but I am not like that hehehe

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 13, 2008, 10:46:31 PM
You little devil Sean!

Don?t suppose it will do any harm , someone in the spdc claims to have achieved a 20 second constant speed run, sorry can?t say any more than that..

OI watch ya NDA mate ;)

Some of us are free these days hehe

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: schoolboy2000 on January 13, 2008, 10:49:56 PM
SPDC ? Shell Petroleum Development Company ?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: oak on January 13, 2008, 10:54:37 PM
" . . . but I can make it sync in non gear mode, and that is good. ( both are running CW or CCW)."
Svein

Hey Svein, any news from you?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: rotorhead on January 13, 2008, 10:55:14 PM
You little devil Sean!

Don?t suppose it will do any harm , someone in the spdc claims to have achieved a 20 second constant speed run, sorry can?t say any more than that..
WhipMag or Orbo?
If WhipMag, please share
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Dyamios on January 13, 2008, 10:55:52 PM
Does it work?

Craig, I don't want to be one of those intrusive types, but it would be appreciated if you make it public. We, or I anyways, would promise not harass you like poor Al was. Or at the least would it be possible to get a private copy for review?

Of course, its all up to you.  ;)

Before this gets out of hand, it was not a Video that involved a Rotor of any sort hehehe  ;D
I could of dragged it on longer, but I am not like that hehehe



Haha, you spiked my hopes there for a second   :P
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 13, 2008, 10:59:47 PM
Sorry to say no more playing with the magnets from me tonight.
The missus dissapeared off to a trade show early this morning and as usual I invaded the dining room with my toys as warmer than the workshop :)
I am lucky my compressor has an extenable hose:

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/clanzcompress2.jpg)

Well she back now and I had the orders to clear the table and wind the Air Line up and open a bottle of wine.

So still online but no more playing till tomorrow :(

Cheers

Sean.


Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 13, 2008, 11:01:29 PM
The spdc is the steorn private developers group but the subject matter was the whip mag, which i suppose does not count as far as steorn are concerned. Still a 20 sec run is a little confirmation of what Sean has done and i can feel it in my rig. Just have to carry on playing
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: oak on January 13, 2008, 11:05:44 PM
The spdc is the steorn private developers group but the subject matter was the whip mag, which i suppose does not count as far as steorn are concerned. Still a 20 sec run is a little confirmation of what Sean has done and i can feel it in my rig. Just have to carry on playing

The actual statement posted in the SPDC is:

"it was running at almost constant speed for 20 seconds, but it did not manage to gain speed, and then it slowed down a little bit, and then it ran down as normal.  So my hope is to make it sync at a little higher speed and start to gain speed."
---------------------

I wanted to clarify precisely what the SPDC member said, because to me saying "almost constant speed" is not the same as saying "constant speed."

(Originally in this post, I identified the SPDC member who posted the remark, believing he would not mind.  I don't know whether he would mind, but in retrospect I realize I was out of place to do it, so I've removed his name.)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 13, 2008, 11:12:04 PM
The spdc is the steorn private developers group but the subject matter was the whip mag, which i suppose does not count as far as steorn are concerned. Still a 20 sec run is a little confirmation of what Sean has done and i can feel it in my rig. Just have to carry on playing
To avoid confusion over which Sean you are talking about and subsequent wild rumours it would be best to call this Sean, CLaNZer or the other Sean, McCarthy.

Also, SPDC stands for Steorn Private Developer's Club, not group. It is colloquially know as the SPUD which is a lot easier to say and to remember.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 13, 2008, 11:15:27 PM
There is a virtual circumference ratio, by virtual i mean that the radius is extended with the airgap size. that distance is used to calculate the virtual circumference, then the stator circumference should be as close a match to the ratio 4 to 1, with that in mind i belive i need 12mm stator , and not the 15mm stators i made up out of 2 neos and plastic, think i might make 4 or 5 sets of stators with each one with a different diameter, from 10 mm up to 15 to get some thing nailed down
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 13, 2008, 11:16:47 PM
To avoid confusion over which Sean you are talking about and subsequent wild rumours it would be best to call this Sean, CLaNZer or the other Sean, McCarthy.

Nope dun't agree

I have always signed Cheers Sean in these forums and it was only in the SPDC that I had to use SeanH because people were getting confused LOL  ;D

Now I am a EX member of the SPDC like you Grimer :) , I do not think their rules apply in here.

Cheers

SEAN.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: noncents on January 13, 2008, 11:23:02 PM
Over here I'm pretty sure when someone refers to Sean people know it's CLaNZer. Who the heck is this McCarthy fellow you speak of?  ???
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 13, 2008, 11:26:11 PM
LOL,  ;D

The CEO of steorn
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: noncents on January 13, 2008, 11:31:04 PM
Chief Evasion Officer  8)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 13, 2008, 11:32:16 PM
Chief Evasion Officer  8)

Chief Evade (the question) Officer  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: noncents on January 13, 2008, 11:36:22 PM
Did you get a shipping notification from K&J? What does the order status show online? We're not impatient though.  ;)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 13, 2008, 11:47:32 PM
got an order confirmation on the 4th, no shipping confirmation tho  :-[
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 13, 2008, 11:48:54 PM
got an order confirmation on the 4th, no shipping confirmtion tho  :-[

I had a choice $17.00 no tracking or $65.00 with tracking. ummm I went for the $17.00 option.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: yaz on January 13, 2008, 11:50:39 PM
Did anyone check out this video response?
 At 3:00 the single ball bearing follows the magnetic field spinning underneath (as you would expect). Slowly increasing the rotating mag field, the ball bearing starts making these crazy, clover leaf shape gyrations, at a still higher speed it all of a sudden REVERSES direction. Counter-rotating field are key.

Therefore, on the magmotor  there must be a certain speed at which the rotor must be spinning before the stators lock in sync. Maybe using different magnets for stators, you need a higher rotor rpm before they sync up??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqEd3KHuEHU
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: noncents on January 14, 2008, 12:07:07 AM
got an order confirmation on the 4th, no shipping confirmtion tho  :-[

I had a choice $17.00 no tracking or $65.00 with tracking. ummm I went for the $17.00 option.

What a rip-off. They get a confirmation# every time they ship. What a load of bull-hockey to charge you $60 to access to your own confirm#. We need to get Neo to supply these. Never mind. Sorry for the distraction.


Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 14, 2008, 12:11:25 AM
What a rip-off. They get a confirmation# every time they ship. What a load of bull-hockey to charge you $60 to access to your own confirm#. We need to get Neo to supply these. Never mind. Sorry for the distraction.

It no hassle, at the end of the day I have tried alot of experiements trying to get OU or something close and waiting is part of the process.

No rush it will come when the time is right  ;D

Never expect anything from anybody in life and you will never be dissapointed, that is a rule I have lived by for years  ;D ;D

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 14, 2008, 12:41:42 AM
Over here I'm pretty sure when someone refers to Sean people know it's CLaNZer. Who the heck is this McCarthy fellow you speak of?  ???
Don't tempt me. ;D

Actually, the name on his birth certificate is Shaun - not to be confused with the othe Shaun who is down the pole as compared.....never mind. :-X
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Rosphere on January 14, 2008, 01:58:58 AM
Your third video appears to have the "magneto kinetic Jetson damper" added?  Would you care to elaborate?  (Sorry if I missed it earlier.)

...Nothing to elaborate on really, just lathed down some aluminium as per specs by AL and in the plans by JDO.

I spaced them with about 4mm gap from the outside of the Rotor.

Thank you, Sean.

Did anyone check out this video response?

...you need a higher rotor rpm before they sync up??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqEd3KHuEHU

Good find.  I saw that video a while ago.  The counter rotation is interesting.  Besides magnetism and rotation, I wonder if this counter rotation phenomenon is somehow connected.  Thoughts of Schauberger.  This auto synchronization happens without gearing of any sort to drag down the works,... in both devices actually.  Thanks for the link.

Yes, you may be on to something: initial 'startup velocity' may be important.  If a car battery becomes too old to move the starter fast enough to turn over the engine, you replace the starter battery, not the engine.  What ever we use to start the rotor, and stators, spinning must be disengaged, like a car starter, when the motor reaches operating speed.

 
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 14, 2008, 02:10:37 AM
Tomorrow will try to pull out the bearing from several hard drives. Can't wait until Monday. Does anyone have any experience in that?
The parts come apart fairly easily.  If you want to disassemble the main drive motor to remove the coils and ring magnet, you drive or press the main shaft out of the base (the shaft is driven out from the base where you can see it in the middle of the motor in the bearings_024 image below).  That doesn't take a great deal of force.  Once that's open, if you work around the coils with a flathead screwdriver the coils will work loose and fall out.  You normally only have to work the coils in a circle twice over.  If you work the coils apart without touching the base you can do this without any scaring (not that scaring will matter too much in here; if you are too rough you can end up with a couple of sharp jaggies sticking up that may grab the top part when you re-assemble, but if necessary you can file those away without affecting smoothness when it's spinning).

At the ring magnet end, generally (depending on the age of the motor) you will see that it is contained inside a metal ring which is pressed onto the top of the motor assembly.  With a pair of adjustable pliers/multigrips or a vice you can progressively squeeze that metal ring from a few angles and it will pop off without scaring anything.  You can then gently knock the assembly back together and it will be a free-spinning bearing without the coils & magnets.

edit: here are the kinds of bits you end up retrieving (these are from older drives):

http://www.ebswift.com/WhipMag/Bearings_022.jpg
http://www.ebswift.com/WhipMag/Bearings_024.jpg
http://www.ebswift.com/WhipMag/Bearings_025.jpg
Thanks for the advice. Taking out these bearings was quite an ordeal. I have now several  bearings of two different dimensions but they turned out to be metric and will not fit the recommended austenitic stainless steel socket-head cap screws, #4-40. I see the tracking tells me that the rc helicopter bearings will be here tomorrow and we'll see what their measurements will be. The rest of the pieces will be ready probably tomorrow afternoon. This is the situation with me at the moment.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 14, 2008, 02:12:29 AM
@ Sean
Great job today, "playing"!  LOL  I can't wait to see when you receive the proper magnets.

My magnets should be here Monday...I hope.  Machine shop should be finished Tuesday, with Jason's, Hank's and my Base and rotor.  All materials to spec. 

Today, went and purchased all brass machine screws, washers, rubber washers for spacing.  I am not pleased with putting a 4-40  screw through the bearing with a 3/16" center, but we doubled check Al's info and that is what it calls for.  The head of the screw hold down the inner wall of the bearing to the bottom washers and base.  But an exact replication is what we want.

1/4 - 20 brass machine screw for the center rotor.  Washer's, spacers, etc.  Also picked up some glue on rubber feet for the corners.

I only lack 1/2" aluminum round for the dampers and must find that online.  No store in my city has that size (of course  :( ) 3/8" and 1/4" but no 1/2".

A few more days and we three will be hot on your tail with our replication.   ;) :D ;D

Happy days,

Bruce
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Rosphere on January 14, 2008, 02:35:41 AM
@Sean,

As I said, this counter rotation phenomena is interesting.  Auto synchronization happens without gearing of any sort to drag down the works.  It seems to happen, dare I say, naturally.

I wonder if it would be more 'natural' or stable if we were to free the stators up just a little bit more:

Suppose that the center shaft of your device extended further downward and was secured to another lower base plate.  Add another bearing and allow your stator plate, (your old base plate,) to rotate on the same shaft as the rotor, but independently of it.  Knock off the corners to make it a streamlined 'stator-ring.'  Now your stator-ring is free to move about the rotor which is free to move about the shaft.  (Just to be clear, the stators still spin freely on their individual shafts which are now secured to the new stator-ring instead of your old base plate.)

Just a thought.  :-\
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: JAG on January 14, 2008, 02:42:54 AM
So now we've had three replicators (Vibrator on Steorn, RB on Steorn, and CLaNZer here) report they are seeing the AGW lock effect. (But don't have acceleration yet - mainly due to waiting on the right type of magnets) I think it would be worthwhile for you guys to look at what AL was saying a couple of weeks ago when he first discovered the lock. It's on pages 5,6 & 7 of this thread in the Steorn forum.

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=59687&page=5

He talks about the need for the dampners, and adjustments he needed to make. With a couple of slight variations in some of the replications you may need to go through a similar type of process to get the same effect as him.

Good Luck

JAG
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Rosphere on January 14, 2008, 02:46:51 AM
I only lack 1/2" aluminum round for the dampers and must find that online.  No store in my city has that size (of course  :( ) 3/8" and 1/4" but no 1/2".

I happen to have a couple feet.  How much do you need?  PM me the particulars.

I think I purchased a three foot rod at The Home Depot last year at this time for my Maggie Motor.  Alas, she broke my heart so long ago.  One of you blokes better make an honest woman out of her.  Don't forget to share the honeymoon photos.  ;)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: blue_energy on January 14, 2008, 02:47:14 AM
Shoot.  Timed out.  Now I have to type it all again.

I want to suggest a test for you non-armchair experimenters.  In this test you would attach a belt from the test motor to an alternator instead of using the Judson dampers.  The alternator's field coil should be limited via a linear potentiometer such that if the potentiometer was turned completely off - the alternator would have nothing to work against - therefore allowing the alternator to spin freely with almost no drag.

There would be a volt meter attached, in series, between the potentiometer and the alternator, showing how much juice was being sent to the alternators coil.

There would also be a volt meter attached to the output of the alternator, showing how much juice was being produced by it.

There would be something to dynamically gauge the current rpm of the rotor.

The Whipmag motor would be started while the potentiometer was preventing any juice from getting to the alternator's field coil - so it would just be spinning freely.  Once the third stator 'caught', the pot would be turned up just until acceleration stabilized.  When the other two stators were stopped and as acceleration commenced again, the pot would be adjusted until the rotor speed stabilized.

Testing would involve adjusting the potentiometer, to cause the rotor to spin at different rpm, in stages.  At each - the current volts both being consumed and generated by the alternator would be recorded along with the rotor speed.  This would continue between the upper and lower limits of the effect and graphed - hopefully showing a sweetspot, in rpm, where the most power is produced. 
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Rosphere on January 14, 2008, 03:15:03 AM
In this test you would attach a belt from the test motor to an alternator instead of using the Judson dampers.
...allowing the alternator to spin freely with almost no drag.

Are you thinking of the Judson dampers as a drag on the rotor like a belt drive?

I could be wrong but I think the dampers function is to help the stator's inertia to carry it through a sticky spot when the rotor reaches a critical point, to help accelerate the rotor and stator(s), not drag the rotor down like a belt would.

A belt or some other PTO will need to be added later, but this baby is still in the delivery room with momma and it is too early to break-out the cigars.  ;)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 14, 2008, 03:26:03 AM
I only lack 1/2" aluminum round for the dampers and must find that online.  No store in my city has that size (of course  :( ) 3/8" and 1/4" but no 1/2".

I happen to have a couple feet.  How much do you need?  PM me the particulars.

I think I purchased a three foot rod at The Home Depot last year at this time for my Maggie Motor.  Alas, she broke my heart so long ago.  One of you blokes better make an honest woman out of her.  Don't forget to share the honeymoon photos.  ;)

@ Rosphere

Thank you for the offer.  I sent you a pm with the details!   ;D  I don't need much.  LOL

Maggie broke your heart, but perhaps the OCAL will put it back together again.

Thanks as always,

Bruce
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: crash_uni8 on January 14, 2008, 03:26:39 AM
@Clanzer

you wouldn't happen to have a slow-motion camera?
or access to camera with a fast shutter speed to see the alignment when the syncing happens?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Dyamios on January 14, 2008, 03:53:48 AM
@Clanzer

you wouldn't happen to have a slow-motion camera?
or access to camera with a fast shutter speed to see the alignment when the syncing happens?

Hi-speed cameras generally cost quite a bit of cash. There are some types of camcorders that you can force to go into 60fps as opposed to 29.97/30, but this feature isn't generally supported in typical household cameras by sony or the like...

But you never know... perhaps Clanzer does have one  ;)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: JAG on January 14, 2008, 03:59:46 AM
In this test you would attach a belt from the test motor to an alternator instead of using the Judson dampers.
...allowing the alternator to spin freely with almost no drag.

Are you thinking of the Judson dampers as a drag on the rotor like a belt drive?

I could be wrong but I think the dampers function is to help the stator's inertia to carry it through a sticky spot when the rotor reaches a critical point, to help accelerate the rotor and stator(s), not drag the rotor down like a belt would.

A belt or some other PTO will need to be added later, but this baby is still in the delivery room with momma and it is too early to break-out the cigars.  ;)

Sorry Rosphere too lazy to find the link, but somewhere in the development thread over at Steorn (I think about page 5 or 6) Al discusses the need for the Judson Dampers. Prior to using these, the device once "in sync" the stator would accelerate up to over 8000 rpm's, become unstable and drop out of sync. The dampers provide drag on the stator, to slow the acceleration and stator speed. They don't help accelerate the rotor and stator, they do the opposite and keep it "balanced" and in sync. This is what I find most interesting. Other ways can be found to provide that drag/control mechanism that can generate usable work.

JAG
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jdo300 on January 14, 2008, 03:59:59 AM
@All

I am still not clear on whether the JDO specifications are exactly what Al has built or not ?
Can anyone clarify this, it seems a grey area, or did i miss a post regarding this?

Dean

Hi Dean,

I just asked about Al Confirming my blueprints yesterday. Here's the posted response about it:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3871.msg69936.html#msg69936

There was only one minor discrepancy with the Rotor's shaft not being a bolt, but Al mentioned on the Steorn forum that he was using a screw axle when he originally got it working.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jdo300 on January 14, 2008, 04:04:06 AM
Well spinning the Stator magnet using Air certainly will stop me taking skin off my fingers!!!

Heres some latching with 1 Stator Fixed again, 1 Stator loose and of course the latcher!.
Also in the same video latching with just 1 Stator, again using the airline.

And yep it does sound to initially speed up when it latches as you can hear.
I will get the Tacho connected back up and see if we can catch it.

Got to go try eat this end, as had nothing all day LOL  ;D ;D ;D

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/CLaNZeRSlatch4.wmv

P.S Sorry the videos are so big but I want to try and keep them atleast 640 * 480 resolution, so you can see what is actually happening.


Way to go!

I initially thought I heard the rotor accelerating in your earlier video but it is VERY refreshing to see a second person get this thing going! Keep up the great work! Soon I'll be in on all the fun as well  ;)

I also bought a decent Tachometer from eBay so that I can take RPM measurements once I get my rig up and running.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110213324093&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:MOTORS:1123

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: geodan on January 14, 2008, 04:12:38 AM
Hi Jason,

very nice job on the drawings!

In my opinion Sean's version seems both more stable and flexible adjustment wise... which could be very important when it comes to fine tweaking...

I think that most of the difference is in the base plate... do you have any plans of doing a drawing based on Sean's model??

Thanks

Geordan
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jdo300 on January 14, 2008, 04:37:56 AM
Hi geodan,

I absolutely plan to build an adjustable model for further testing. I'm only sticking to the original model strictly for replication and validation reasons. The next version I make will be much more flexible to experiment with and optimize the design.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: blue_energy on January 14, 2008, 04:39:02 AM
Quote
Sorry Rosphere too lazy to find the link, but somewhere in the development thread over at Steorn (I think about page 5 or 6) Al discusses the need for the Judson Dampers. Prior to using these, the device once "in sync" the stator would accelerate up to over 8000 rpm's, become unstable and drop out of sync. The dampers provide drag on the stator, to slow the acceleration and stator speed. They don't help accelerate the rotor and stator, they do the opposite and keep it "balanced" and in sync. This is what I find most interesting. Other ways can be found to provide that drag/control mechanism that can generate usable work.

JAG

Exactly, JAG - I read the same thing.  All suspicions are suspect at this point ;D but I suspect that the reason that Al's motor quits above 8,000 rpm on the stators is that the stator bearings can't keep up with the rotor and the motor falls out of 'gear' phase. 
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: noncents on January 14, 2008, 04:46:34 AM
geodan, Jdo
I'm pretty sure Sean's model originated with CAD files of some sort as he uses his CNC machine to crank the pieces out. In that sense the drawings already exist.
Here's the base:
http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/base1.jpg
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: JAG on January 14, 2008, 04:49:47 AM
Quote
Sorry Rosphere too lazy to find the link, but somewhere in the development thread over at Steorn (I think about page 5 or 6) Al discusses the need for the Judson Dampers. Prior to using these, the device once "in sync" the stator would accelerate up to over 8000 rpm's, become unstable and drop out of sync. The dampers provide drag on the stator, to slow the acceleration and stator speed. They don't help accelerate the rotor and stator, they do the opposite and keep it "balanced" and in sync. This is what I find most interesting. Other ways can be found to provide that drag/control mechanism that can generate usable work.

JAG

Exactly, JAG - I read the same thing.  All suspicions are suspect at this point ;D but I suspect that the reason that Al's motor quits above 8,000 rpm on the stators is that the stator bearings can't keep up with the rotor and the motor falls out of 'gear' phase. 

I agree. Another thought (helped by someone at Steorn forum) is that the Dampners are magnetic "sinks" which could result in a change of temperature. As we know even a slight change in temperature can be used to create usable work via a Sterling.

I'd be interested to see one of the replicators do a temperature test comparison of the Dampers pre and post run.

JAG
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: blue_energy on January 14, 2008, 04:53:08 AM
Quote
A belt or some other PTO will need to be added later, but this baby is still in the delivery room with momma and it is too early to break-out the cigars.

@Rosphere - You're right, of course.  I'm just getting the idea out there now - because by tomorrow at this time it may well no longer be pre-mature.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: TheOne on January 14, 2008, 05:04:36 AM
Another replication from ZeroFosillFuel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHy_OeS8qVE

But his stator magnet are way to big in my opinion :)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: JAG on January 14, 2008, 05:05:37 AM
Quote
A belt or some other PTO will need to be added later, but this baby is still in the delivery room with momma and it is too early to break-out the cigars.

@Rosphere - You're right, of course.  I'm just getting the idea out there now - because by tomorrow at this time it may well no longer be pre-mature.

Blue I set up a thread for all us armchair enthusiasts (I really wish I was ready to build this thing) that has a list of tests we'd like to see. Of course it's based on the theory that several replicators get this up and running. That way CLaNZer can say. I'll do endurance testing for example and everyone else can do something different and not re-invent the wheel (pun intended) every time.

Any other ideas you want to share?

JAG
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: iadcw on January 14, 2008, 05:05:50 AM
Quote
Sorry Rosphere too lazy to find the link, but somewhere in the development thread over at Steorn (I think about page 5 or 6) Al discusses the need for the Judson Dampers. Prior to using these, the device once "in sync" the stator would accelerate up to over 8000 rpm's, become unstable and drop out of sync. The dampers provide drag on the stator, to slow the acceleration and stator speed. They don't help accelerate the rotor and stator, they do the opposite and keep it "balanced" and in sync. This is what I find most interesting. Other ways can be found to provide that drag/control mechanism that can generate usable work.

JAG

Exactly, JAG - I read the same thing.  All suspicions are suspect at this point ;D but I suspect that the reason that Al's motor quits above 8,000 rpm on the stators is that the stator bearings can't keep up with the rotor and the motor falls out of 'gear' phase. 

I remember reading in a Steorn thread that after Al got the machine going as always he started a second stator going AGW with RPM's in excess of 12,000.  Al hasn't posted in a while(black helicopters??). This was in one of his latter posts.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: geodan on January 14, 2008, 05:09:51 AM
Hi geodan,

I absolutely plan to build an adjustable model for further testing. I'm only sticking to the original model strictly for replication and validation reasons. The next version I make will be much more flexible to experiment with and optimize the design.

God Bless,
Jason O

Thanks Jason!,

Since I will not be in the "first wave" of replicators I think that I need to set my sights on flexibility to be able to adjust as many variables as possible... I'd be interested in seeing what you come up with...

Noncets suggests that Sean might already have drawings for his base so maybe he'll be sharing those as well?

Thanks very much guys!

geodan
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: JAG on January 14, 2008, 05:10:05 AM
Just looked at that one from zero, He needs to cover the rotor in cling film or something to stop the air flow. He'll get a large fan/drag effect from his design.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: JAG on January 14, 2008, 05:21:54 AM
Quote
Sorry Rosphere too lazy to find the link, but somewhere in the development thread over at Steorn (I think about page 5 or 6) Al discusses the need for the Judson Dampers. Prior to using these, the device once "in sync" the stator would accelerate up to over 8000 rpm's, become unstable and drop out of sync. The dampers provide drag on the stator, to slow the acceleration and stator speed. They don't help accelerate the rotor and stator, they do the opposite and keep it "balanced" and in sync. This is what I find most interesting. Other ways can be found to provide that drag/control mechanism that can generate usable work.

JAG

Exactly, JAG - I read the same thing.  All suspicions are suspect at this point ;D but I suspect that the reason that Al's motor quits above 8,000 rpm on the stators is that the stator bearings can't keep up with the rotor and the motor falls out of 'gear' phase. 

I remember reading in a Steorn thread that after Al got the machine going as always he started a second stator going AGW with RPM's in excess of 12,000.  Al hasn't posted in a while(black helicopters??). This was in one of his latter posts.

I read that too, but details were sparse. Lets get the replicators to get it working first before we make them double it :)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: iadcw on January 14, 2008, 05:36:17 AM
I have no doubt the replications will go just fine, and then adjustments will be tried and improvements made.

I also think it will have a fairly large latitude of operation( magnet size, rotor and stator size, spacing, etc.).

If the rotor is moving approximately 1000rpm and the stator @ 5000rpm. What coil configuration would work best, on the rotor or stator, to generate current.

I know - I'm jumping ahead here - But I'm an optimist.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: bhaas on January 14, 2008, 05:41:58 AM
Another replication from ZeroFosillFuel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHy_OeS8qVE

But his stator magnet are way to big in my opinion :)


IMO, that vid is a joke. How can he say it's a replication when it clearly isn't even close???
WTF??? The mags aren't even close. I could go on and on but I think you get the picture.

I ordered some magnets from K&J today and will hopefully get my bearings and CNC
work done this week or next. This is gonna be fun.

Brad
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jdo300 on January 14, 2008, 06:02:31 AM
Another replication from ZeroFosillFuel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHy_OeS8qVE

But his stator magnet are way to big in my opinion :)


You know....

I really don't understand how someone can call themselves a replicator of something when they don't even follow the build instructions! It's like someone trying to replicate a car engine without having a clue how it works..... Ok, I'm not going to start ranting.....

 ???

- Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jdo300 on January 14, 2008, 06:08:30 AM
Hi geodan,

I absolutely plan to build an adjustable model for further testing. I'm only sticking to the original model strictly for replication and validation reasons. The next version I make will be much more flexible to experiment with and optimize the design.

God Bless,
Jason O

Thanks Jason!,

Since I will not be in the "first wave" of replicators I think that I need to set my sights on flexibility to be able to adjust as many variables as possible... I'd be interested in seeing what you come up with...

Noncets suggests that Sean might already have drawings for his base so maybe he'll be sharing those as well?

Thanks very much guys!

geodan

Sean's setup is pretty nice, but when it gets down to the wire and you want to adjust things more precisely, loosening and tightening the stator mags and moving around won't give the best control, even though it is flexible. The design I have in mind would be very similar to what Sean has, but only I would use screw-adjustable stator mountings so that I could not only precisely move the stators (both circumferentially and radially), but I could make these adjustments while the motor is running. That way we can quickly fine tune it and see what positions work and which don't.

I don't have any 3D models of this drawn up just yet but In my mind, I picture something like a linear gear track running around the circumference of the base so that the stators can be positioned with the turn of a screw. Also, the stator magnets could be mounted onto a movable stage to allow them to be adjusted radially (also with a screw).

Once we have a good understanding of what makes this work best, I would like to try ti gear the rotor and one or more stators together to see how that may perform. But that would come much later after we have a better understanding of the latch effect.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: vipond50 on January 14, 2008, 06:13:37 AM
Hi geodan,

I absolutely plan to build an adjustable model for further testing. I'm only sticking to the original model strictly for replication and validation reasons. The next version I make will be much more flexible to experiment with and optimize the design.

God Bless,
Jason O

Thanks Jason!,

Since I will not be in the "first wave" of replicators I think that I need to set my sights on flexibility to be able to adjust as many variables as possible... I'd be interested in seeing what you come up with...

Noncets suggests that Sean might already have drawings for his base so maybe he'll be sharing those as well?

Thanks very much guys!

geodan

Sean's setup is pretty nice, but when it gets down to the wire and you want to adjust things more precisely, loosening and tightening the stator mags and moving around won't give the best control, even though it is flexible. The design I have in mind would be very similar to what Sean has, but only I would use screw-adjustable stator mountings so that I could not only precisely move the stators (both circumferentially and radially), but I could make these adjustments while the motor is running. That way we can quickly fine tune it and see what positions work and which don't.

I don't have any 3D models of this drawn up just yet but In my mind, I picture something like a linear gear track running around the circumference of the base so that the stators can be positioned with the turn of a screw. Also, the stator magnets could be mounted onto a movable stage to allow them to be adjusted radially (also with a screw).

Once we have a good understanding of what makes this work best, I would like to try ti gear the rotor and one or more stators together to see how that may perform. But that would come much later after we have a better understanding of the latch effect.

God Bless,
Jason O

Here Here Jason Here Here ;D
B.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: geodan on January 14, 2008, 06:21:37 AM
Another replication from ZeroFosillFuel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHy_OeS8qVE

But his stator magnet are way to big in my opinion :)


You know....

I really don't understand how someone can call themselves a replicator of something when they don't even follow the build instructions! It's like someone trying to replicate a car engine without having a clue how it works..... Ok, I'm not going to start ranting.....

 ???

- Jason O

Yeah, it just looks like he cobbled together a scrap heap lawn mower paying no attention to details and called it a replication, IMO the whipmag has a lot of subtle coincidental detail going for it, but this guy just threw all those good bits out the window...
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 14, 2008, 06:24:42 AM
Another replication from ZeroFosillFuel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHy_OeS8qVE

But his stator magnet are way to big in my opinion :)

He can't get it to work so he accuses others of cheating.  >:(
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: blue_energy on January 14, 2008, 06:24:54 AM
Quote
Blue I set up a thread for all us armchair enthusiasts (I really wish I was ready to build this thing) that has a list of tests we'd like to see. Of course it's based on the theory that several replicators get this up and running. That way CLaNZer can say. I'll do endurance testing for example and everyone else can do something different and not re-invent the wheel (pun intended) every time.

Any other ideas you want to share?

JAG

Hi JAG,

I guess that if I had my druthers (which, as a bystander, I have no right to expect) I'd procede in this order:

1. Replicate the original.
2. Generate some idea of the magnitude of apparent OU that we're talking about.
3. Determine whether that energy is being generated by depleting something else.
4. If it's not - determine optimum setup parameters.

#1 will be obvious if it occurs. 

#2 could be covered a number of different ways, but my earlier suggestion would do an medium precise job at very low expense. 

#3 - the two obvious candidates are electrostatics and demagnetization.  Omnibus seems to have a handle on showing that electrostatics are not involved with his Faraday cage idea. Proving or disproving that demagnetization is involved would require something like measuring the gauss of the magnets before and after; calculating how much energy is being generated (potentially using my previous idea); and determining whether the energy produced could be accounted for in lost gauss.  Probably this would require a fairly long run, or series of runs, to determine.  And, even then, it would only give you a ballpark estimate since bearing and wind friction and etc. would account for some too.  But - if there is no apparent loss in gauss and a significant amount of energy produced, there would be a point beyond which measurement error could no longer account for the results (which is what we're all hoping for...).

Overall, I vote for quick and dirty experiments to begin with - just something to tell us if "we're" on the right track and generally where the mysteries lie.  More precise experiments can be done later if it turns out that the true answer is somewhere in the lack-o-precision slop of the originals.  We'll know generally where to look.

#4 - Somewhere, much further, down the line - and presuming that the ballpark experiments pan out - I'd like it if more precise and complicated tests were done to determine the optimum setup.  These might be something that those of us who are intensely interested, but not especially mechanically inclined (like me) can  help with.  There are lots of us here who have skills and knowledge that could be tapped.

For instance, a project to attempt to determine the optimum relationship of magnet gauss, magnet separation, and rotor diameter and mass.  Or the optimum relationship between rotor circumference and stator circumference.  Or (potentially) the optimum relationship between the circumferences of the first two stators to the third.  All of these could benefit from the generation of more particular and precise data which could be managed by a database and custom software to make use of it.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: geodan on January 14, 2008, 06:31:43 AM
Jason

That makes all the sense in the world, adjusting those parameters on the fly will save a lot of time, I think that it will make it much easier to sync up more and more stators one at a time so that they can do more of the work as opposed to dragging the rotor down...

geodan
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: blue_energy on January 14, 2008, 06:36:51 AM
Quote
If the rotor is moving approximately 1000rpm and the stator @ 5000rpm. What coil configuration would work best, on the rotor or stator, to generate current.


@iadcw

I think that rather than attach a static coil, an alternator should be used - since then the resistance can be scaled dynamically and experimentally to determine the optimum value without changing the hardware.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: nightlife on January 14, 2008, 07:13:49 AM
"Another replication from ZeroFosillFuel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHy_OeS8qVE

But his stator magnet are way to big in my opinion"

 
 I am ashamed of ZFF for his statement as well as his ability to build a replication of that design. His replication is missing some key elements and is far from what I would consider a fair replication. It was disrespectful and I would hope that he was a fair enough person to recant his video as well as his statement until he builds a proper replication showing the results.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: wildgunz on January 14, 2008, 07:43:55 AM
I think the guy over at Z.F.F. will be feeling like a ass by the end of the week...What a piece of junk...Not even close..
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jdo300 on January 14, 2008, 08:11:45 AM
Quote
If the rotor is moving approximately 1000rpm and the stator @ 5000rpm. What coil configuration would work best, on the rotor or stator, to generate current.


@iadcw

I think that rather than attach a static coil, an alternator should be used - since then the resistance can be scaled dynamically and experimentally to determine the optimum value without changing the hardware.

A good candidate for something like this would be those small DC fan motors that run on two AA batteries. They can actually pump out quite a bit of power if you spin them fast enough, though I wouldn't use them to get any absolute performance measurements. Later when you are ready to build a real generator for this thing, there are lots of good designs out there for low/no drag generators. One of the best is the Gramme Generator. It was manufactured back in the 1860s but was later replaced with the ones we use now.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: scotty1 on January 14, 2008, 09:27:36 AM
Today i saw this video...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zRN-KCqlBxI&feature=related (http://youtube.com/watch?v=zRN-KCqlBxI&feature=related)
Al was taught how to do that....and i can do it too.
The thing is that it is someone else's work...and no permission was given..
I have lots of those videos, but i would not post them because the person who showed me is my friend...who did all the work himself.
What a shame we cannot trust people with our ideas  >:(
This is what Al said "These inventions are yours; I will never 'steal' them or make public without your consent!"
What a shame... ??? 
Scotty.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: plasmasd on January 14, 2008, 09:41:47 AM
The Zero Fossil Fuels guy didnt even atempt to make a similar device. Why dont I just put a stuffed duck on a turntable (with a magnet in its mouth for good measure) to disprove Al's video!!   :D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Prophmaji on January 14, 2008, 09:49:45 AM
Additional thoughts:

Consider switching it to a higher gear.

Look at small stacked laminates from/for HF and HF-wideband transformer work. Some well made grain oriented silicon steel.

That's what you might want to consider for the Judson dampers. It seems it's all about gating, shear, and polarization.

Not only do you gain control of that, but the speed/timing of the interaction (and inherent hysteresis considerations) as well.

Think it through.

You can even partially wrap the laminate, like cupping a magnet, to direct and control these polarized field considerations.

Even if it fails, especially if it fails spectacularly, it teaches much.

Then the way of modifying the structure to accept other configurations and magnets might seem a bit more clear.

My immediate thoughts are , if it fails, with vertically oriented stacked laminates....is that the rotating magnets on the main disk, require a damper that does not impose such a polarity and field generation upon their native fields, as the stacked laminates will attempt to impose order via interaction. In that case, the round damper would obviously be important. No directionality on that orientation would be key. Then, attempt a round stacked laminate damper in the horizontal orientation.

Either attempt, once again, will teach you much. Attempt both.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: robbie47 on January 14, 2008, 12:23:46 PM
The Zero Fossil Fuels guy didnt even atempt to make a similar device. Why dont I just put a stuffed duck on a turntable (with a magnet in its mouth for good measure) to disprove Al's video!!   :D

Let's focus on more constructive comments rather that flaming others.
We might need them for future topics.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 14, 2008, 12:24:41 PM
Dear All

Due to reasons beyond his control Al is unable to continue with this lark please return to our regular programming ....

Just Joking !!! (I think)

 ???

Dean
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Rosphere on January 14, 2008, 01:05:47 PM
Sean's setup is pretty nice, but when it gets down to the wire and you want to adjust things more precisely, loosening and tightening the stator mags and moving around won't give the best control, even though it is flexible. The design I have in mind would be very similar to what Sean has, but only I would use screw-adjustable stator mountings so that I could not only precisely move the stators (both circumferentially and radially), but I could make these adjustments while the motor is running. That way we can quickly fine tune it and see what positions work and which don't...

Good idea, Jason.  You know, the base of these things make great sounding boards.  Even in the videos we can hear the acceleration or deceleration of the device.  We hardly need the tachometer, but it is good to have.  Adjusting on the fly is a great way to find the optimum distances and angles.  However, as a metastable FE device, I fear that we may need more investment than this to keep it going.

What I mean is that we may need to invest in, or borrow, some high speed cameras.  This auto synchronization of stator angles without need of any sort of gearing is where, I believe, the magic and metastability lie.  It is the only thing that makes this design unique and promising.  I wonder what the stators are doing with respect to the rotor magnets during an acceleration phase.  It would be nice to be able to record real time data of the positions of the rotor and stators.  Now that I think of it, we would not need the camera if we had good, synchronized position/time data.

Let us say that we have 8 magnets on the rotor, as with he current design.  I want to know at what angle the driving stator makes at exactly those 8 positions when the rotor is accelerating, decelerating, and gradually loaded to control an acceleration run up.  This way we can both understand more about exactly how this design works and start to design control mechanisms to accompany the PTO, so that we do not kill the golden goose when we want to tap some power.  Blue_energy had some ideas about how to do this in an earlier post.

...off to work now.  :( :)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: plasmasd on January 14, 2008, 01:05:52 PM
Sorry if that comment came across as negative, I just think it hillarious that when you go through Al's material and read that an alignment difference in millimeters between the rotating stators and the rotor made the device "work as shown," that a device that does not resemble the original is being used to discount it. Al's device may very well be fake, or achieving it's rotation as a result of high EMF in his basement, but until someone builds a device exactly like the original, no one can claim whether it works or doesn't.     
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ebswift on January 14, 2008, 01:27:46 PM
The Zero Fossil Fuels guy didnt even atempt to make a similar device. Why dont I just put a stuffed duck on a turntable (with a magnet in its mouth for good measure) to disprove Al's video!!   :D

Let's focus on more constructive comments rather that flaming others.
We might need them for future topics.
Yep, like the "Redneck OU channel"!  Surely if ZPE wants to have his own mythbusters channel (and not the redneck mythbusters channel) he's gotta do better than ferrite magnets & superglue where the spec required neo's, fairly tight tolerances, tested air gaps, AND the alloy dampers.  Sorry, but flaming that particular video is nothing but mandatory - I'd expect nothing less.

edit: or perhaps I've overlooked the attempt at comedy?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: jcims on January 14, 2008, 01:50:30 PM

Good idea, Jason.  You know, the base of these things make great sounding boards.  Even in the videos we can hear the acceleration or deceleration of the device.  We hardly need the tachometer, but it is good to have.

You can make a poor man's tach using your sound card, an audio transformer and a CdS photocell (or phototransistor only, no transformer).  Radio Shack has the parts:

# Audio Transformer (8:1000) Radio Shack (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103254 Part# 273-1380)
# CdS Photoresistor Radio Shack (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062590 Part# 276-1657)

Here is the circuit:

(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9783/circuitjb8.png)

You can run one of these circuits on each the left and right channel to monitor the RPMs on both pieces of equipment.  The output is recorded as a .wav file and you can either use Sonic Visualizer (www.sonicvisualizer.org) or some simple .wav file processing to get the RPMs back out into useful data.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: xpress on January 14, 2008, 02:26:02 PM
Hello fellow seekers.
Got my magnets today 14th ordered from KJMagnetics. I'm in Sweden. Orderdate was January 5th.

Been following the developments since it was posted on PESwiki. Was very convinced to attempt make a duplicate....now undecided on the matter to make a duplicate or not, as many competent people seem to be on it. Everybody is busy so am I .

Does it strike anyone as odd that no other video of a running machine has been released after the initial one ?
With the thirst of information out there - and the expressed intent to make this Open Source - why no more videos of running machines ?

I guess we all will know within the next 7 days.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 14, 2008, 02:39:59 PM
Hi Xpress,

I was about to go out this afternoon and discuss acquiring the parts with the help of a local hobbyist shop (he supplies remote control helicopters etc) I share your concerns regarding the validity of the claims for the same reasons. I am starting to wonder if Al pulled that video because he didn't want to go through with the deception. Though it got out of control and he decided to run with it. Now He seems to becoming evasive after trying to hint that there was nothing in it and that is was just an anomoly etc etc etc... this wasn't enough of a wet towel to slow the more excitable amongst us and now he's probably wondering what to do next. Probably expecting that no one will successfully replicate and then will probably say that he can no longer start it up again then let things die off....

Having said that (large amount of supposing) I still might just meander down to the toy shop and get some direction as to where to get the parts for this fascinating toy .. I love a good puzzle.

Cheers,


Dean
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: bhaas on January 14, 2008, 02:57:05 PM
Whether this is BS or not. Magnets have POWER, period. I believe a magnet motor is
possible and that's all I need to go on. I'm sure it's been done before, but got suppressed
like most free energy inventions. I've been dabbling in mag motors for years. Haven't had
much success, but I still believe and that's all I need, and I do believe I'll eventually get it.

I will admit, that after watching that vid and being here I'm even more motivated and determined to get this going.

Never say die.

Brad
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 14, 2008, 03:00:04 PM
Brad,

I hate to admit it .. but i can't stop believing either Brad.

Have my fingers crossed too for this one.

Cheers,

Dean
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 14, 2008, 03:01:49 PM
Another update from me, excuse the squeeky voice on the movie, still fighting off this damm cold.

Playing today while STILL waiting for the correct stator magnets I found that the best speed to get them rear stator ro latch is 320 RPM any speed over this seems to make it very diffcult.
Then if you spin the rotor over 800RPM it looses sync.

I am going to spend today using a airline too hold it at a constant rpm and then release the air and log some data too see if have any small speed increases or THE BUMP as they call it.
But if there is a knock on the door I will drop it all because it may be my magnets  ;D ;D

Another Video to show what I mean, sorry about the quality but bloody hard to film and play at the same time.

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/CLaNZeR320rpm800rpm.wmv

Not taking this experimenting too serious until I get the correct Magnets.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 14, 2008, 03:10:59 PM
DROPS AIRGUN they have just arrived  ;D ;D ;D

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/theyarehere.jpg)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: bhaas on January 14, 2008, 03:18:08 PM
DROPS AIRGUN they have just arrived  ;D ;D ;D



WooooHoooo. I'm sending in my MO for my mags today. Have fun.

And now I'm off to work and have no internet  :'(

Something to look forward to when I get home.

Brad
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: RunningBare on January 14, 2008, 03:33:15 PM
Good luck CLaNZeR, we're all keeping our fingers crossed...and everything else!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 14, 2008, 03:39:22 PM
Legs, Arms, Fingers and Toes crossed . Good luck !!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: geodan on January 14, 2008, 04:09:43 PM
DROPS AIRGUN they have just arrived  ;D ;D ;D

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/theyarehere.jpg)


YES!! go ClaNZeR go!!!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 14, 2008, 04:57:37 PM
Mine arrived too!!!

Bloodly big box tho, don?t they have envelopes in the states?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: jcims on January 14, 2008, 05:22:52 PM
Mine arrived too!!!

Bloodly big box tho, don?t they have envelopes in the states?


Sure, if you don't mind your magnets getting a few free rides across the pond until someone notices a shiny package stuck to the ceiling of the cargo bay.  :P
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Lakes on January 14, 2008, 05:32:49 PM
Good Luck ClaNZeR and Craigy!!

Keeping everything crossed here!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Prophmaji on January 14, 2008, 05:35:40 PM
Hello fellow seekers.
.......................  . . .

Does it strike anyone as odd that no other video of a running machine has been released after the initial one ?
With the thirst of information out there - and the expressed intent to make this Open Source - why no more videos of running machines ?

I guess we all will know within the next 7 days.


I have, directly, myself..once been visited in my office by a self professed 'member of the US defence industry', for making explicit references to the familial history of the current US presidency and similar information. This, on a forum where I was in good standing for about two years, with over 1500 posts..and the forum was mainly 'the rich', or upper class well educated main support base for the political-corporate base that runs the US right now. I was truthful (but vehement) and factual, showing the paths that differing folks needed to pursue to get at the truth.

The second time, I was posting on this forum and another,  on the same day, on how to get T. Henry Moray's Resonant Crystal and Radioactively driven devices to work correctly. Ie, the missing points of how it works that are not in the patents or papers. I had a friend who also works for the defence industry and governments of two countries in my office, interrogating me, in less than 24 hours of making that post. My identity on both forums is not publically known, but this was the outcome.

So, in essence, those who can do specific things, and spend lots of time being public and upfront about it, merely stick out, head and shoulders above the crowd, and they are targeted quickly and accurately.

What you need is an army of those who are in the know and actually doing these things. That is difficult to stop.

Identifying yourself in that camp can be foolish, depending on the given personal circumstances.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 14, 2008, 06:12:35 PM
@CLaNZeR and @Craigy,

Good luck to both of you from me too. To add pain to suffering a Nor'eastern storm hit us here in the Boston area with at least of 10" of snow. That's all we need now. Eagerly awaiting your results.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 14, 2008, 06:14:19 PM
Right another update, now the Correct Stator magnets have arrived.
I lathed down some shaft and press fitted them onto the Magnets, did crack one of them, so good job I ordered 10 :), so be carefull as even soft brass can do some damage!

I had to ditch the cube rotor as even with a HUGE gap they were too powerfull and it was difficult to spin the rotor.
Even now I struggle to get it upto 400RPM spinning by hand and need to maybe alter the height of the stators or increase the air gap.
As you can see by the video the latching occurs at over 500 RPM with the spacing I have. I will move them back and do more testing later on.

Still 100 other things to try yet, but atleast the building blocks are in place :)

Video link is:

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/tests/CLaNZeRSCorrectmags1.wmv

Cheers

Sean.


Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 14, 2008, 06:21:05 PM
The rc helicopter bearings just arrived. However, they look too small--3/16". They arrived in a huge box with no details whatsoever. Can these bearings be used ... Another glitch.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: vipond50 on January 14, 2008, 06:34:43 PM
@ Sean
Just saw your last video. Could it be that the Judson are dragging down the rotor so U are losing some of the effect. I did see on some of Pic's the device was running without the dampers.
Also, how do u determine the stator height?
What is correct?
Reviewing the data the stators appear to be just below rotor magnet center line.
Is this what u are seeing on your setup or still a variable?
Thx
Bill
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Rosphere on January 14, 2008, 06:56:00 PM
Here is the circuit:

(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9783/circuitjb8.png)


Thank you for the circuit.  Nice find.

Since I am interested in studying the stator angle at various phases of operation, perhaps a strobe light, mounted above, triggered with a reed or optical switch that can be repositioned on the fly would do the trick.  Ideally I would want the strobe to pop per one revolution of the rotor.  Then, being able to adjust the rotor angle of the flash point by sliding the sensor around the perimeter, we could see patterns in the relationship of these freely rotating stators in relation to the rotor magnets during various phases of operation.  I am most interested to see what the critical angle is, if there is one, or the dynamics of the rotors during the transition from acceleration to deceleration.  Then we will be able to experiment with ways of preventing this crossover condition from taking place.

Whoever makes videos of this strobe action should have some good house music to go with it in the background.  ;)

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 14, 2008, 06:58:18 PM
@ Sean
Just saw your last video. Could it be that the Judson are dragging down the rotor so U are losing some of the effect. I did see on some of Pic's the device was running without the dampers.
Also, how do u determine the stator height?
What is correct?
Reviewing the data the stators appear to be just below rotor magnet center line.
Is this what u are seeing on your setup or still a variable?
Thx
Bill

Hi Bill

Find picture below of the config at the moment. The top of the Stator magnets are the same height as the top of the Rotor magnets.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/statorH1.jpg)

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/statorH2.jpg)

Plenty more playing yet  ;D

Cheers

Sean.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: vipond50 on January 14, 2008, 07:02:57 PM
@ Sean
Just saw your last video. Could it be that the Judson are dragging down the rotor so U are losing some of the effect. I did see on some of Pic's the device was running without the dampers.
Also, how do u determine the stator height?
What is correct?
Reviewing the data the stators appear to be just below rotor magnet center line.
Is this what u are seeing on your setup or still a variable?
Thx
Bill

Hi Bill

Find picture below of the config at the moment. The top of the Stator magnets are the same height as the top of the Rotor magnets.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/statorH1.jpg)

Plenty more playing yet  ;D

Cheers

Sean.



Thanks Sean
Wow ! Ddid not expect this type of a work up, Excellent. Will review in depth.
My materials are scheduled to arrive here today, so off to the my shop and start making chips.

Thx again
Bill
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 14, 2008, 07:07:53 PM
cool stuff sean , starting my base plate today, although am tempted to plug a few of the new magnets into the old model i have..even though the measurements are wrong. The stator holders are they just brass shaft , friction fit to bearing and magnet?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 14, 2008, 07:08:23 PM
The rc helicopter bearings just arrived. However, they look too small--3/16". They arrived in a huge box with no details whatsoever. Can these bearings be used ... Another glitch.
Huge box with no details?  :o
Better check for polonium. ::)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 14, 2008, 07:26:39 PM
cool stuff sean , starting my base plate today, although am tempted to plug a few of the new magnets into the old model i have..even though the measurements are wrong. The stator holders are they just brass shaft , friction fit to bearing and magnet?


Hi Craigy

I lathed down 6mm rod to around 3/16 one end and 3mm the other.
Then I mounted the magnet in the lathe and placed the Brass Rod in the lathe tailstock drill chuck. Then just gently squessed it in. They went in nice and square and a really tight fit.

I cut some 3mm brass tube I had to make the 6mm spacers and the bearings mounted in polycarbonate mounts either side.
 
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/statorH3.jpg)

On the finished ones press fitted I just threaded the end so I could put a nut on the end and pull fit the shafts into the bearings.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/statorH4.jpg)

Good luck mate

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 14, 2008, 07:35:58 PM
The rc helicopter bearings just arrived. However, they look too small--3/16". They arrived in a huge box with no details whatsoever. Can these bearings be used ... Another glitch.
Huge box with no details?  :o
Better check for polonium. ::)

ROFL  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: MeggerMan on January 14, 2008, 07:49:05 PM
Hi Sean,
Cracking progress!
800 rpm rotor speed, so you need 4 x that for the sync on the stator, so thats 3200 rpm, I think you'll need some ribs/bumps on the stator to allow it to be spun up to speed with the air line. Bit of a trade of with air resistance.

Could you use the tacho to find the max you can spin the stator at by finger?
The other thing to try is using the brass you have, increase the stator inertia to help the syncing process.
If you make a small flywheel about 12mm or larger out of brass rod, you could drill series of 2mm holes around the circumference to allow the air gun to work.
I think the holes will create only a small amount of drag compared to bumps.
Sorry for all the suggestions.

I brought home two harddisks today with the idea of stripping them for bearings, but it is not that easy. Although I have a set of security torque drivers, some of the hub screws are too tiny even for my set.
[edit]Hi Localjoe, its a old quantum 450Mb drive, I also have a new looking Seagate 40Gb barracuda. There will be more drives I can get at work, just need to keep checking.[/edit]

[Edit 2]alsetalokin is back on the Steorn forum in the last half hour, so he has not gone or been got by the MIBs (sounds painful!) , phew!!!, maybe he can give Sean some pointers now.[/edit 2]

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Localjoe on January 14, 2008, 07:52:39 PM
Western digitals take apart fairly easy and completely dismount from the chassis. 
                                                                  Joe
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Aphiticus on January 14, 2008, 07:58:53 PM
Hi Sean,

Looks great. 

Just a thought, i am of the opinion that the rotor magnets and the stator magnets when doing a reverse spin pulls the magnets toward each other thus forcing the rotation.  If this is true the rotor needs to be as light as possible and the stator needs to be heavier to pull the rotor.

Let me know what you think.

Adam
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ken_nyus on January 14, 2008, 08:03:01 PM
cool stuff sean , starting my base plate today, although am tempted to plug a few of the new magnets into the old model i have..even though the measurements are wrong. The stator holders are they just brass shaft , friction fit to bearing and magnet?


Hi Craigy

I lathed down 6mm rod to around 3/16 one end and 3mm the other.
Then I mounted the magnet in the lathe and placed the Brass Rod in the lathe tailstock drill chuck. Then just gently squessed it in. They went in nice and square and a really tight fit.

I cut some 3mm brass tube I had to make the 6mm spacers and the bearings mounted in polycarbonate mounts either side.
 
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/statorH3.jpg)

On the finished ones press fitted I just threaded the end so I could put a nut on the end and pull fit the shafts into the bearings.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/statorH4.jpg)

Good luck mate

Cheers

Sean.


So in this stator design, the bearings themselves do not rotate?

In Al's stator design, the bearings rotate with the magnets, and I believe they are ordinary (ie. magnetic steel) bearings.

May be significant.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 14, 2008, 08:35:52 PM
Quote from: ken_nyus
So in this stator design, the bearings themselves do not rotate?

LOL yes they rotate or waste of time having the bearings.
The brass shafts sit inside of the bearings as the picture above shows.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 14, 2008, 08:38:46 PM
Just a thought, i am of the opinion that the rotor magnets and the stator magnets when doing a reverse spin pulls the magnets toward each other thus forcing the rotation.  If this is true the rotor needs to be as light as possible and the stator needs to be heavier to pull the rotor.

Hi Adam.

Got various Rotors on the go and at the moment playing with the 6mm Thick Rotor below that has the 5mm rod magnets in it.
Simply by removing the spacers on the stator bearings it allows me to drop them level for the thinner rotors.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/statorH5.jpg)

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ken_nyus on January 14, 2008, 08:47:38 PM
Quote from: ken_nyus
So in this stator design, the bearings themselves do not rotate?

LOL yes they rotate or waste of time having the bearings.
The brass shafts sit inside of the bearings as the picture above shows.


Sorry I know it is a minor point, but in Al's stator the outer ring of the bearing rotates, here the inner ring rotates.

I know it is a minor point, but these are magnetic steel bearings.

In any case good luck and have fun!

Wish I had a completed rig to play with!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 14, 2008, 08:52:43 PM
Hi Sean,

Looks great. 

Just a thought, i am of the opinion that the rotor magnets and the stator magnets when doing a reverse spin pulls the magnets toward each other thus forcing the rotation.  If this is true the rotor needs to be as light as possible and the stator needs to be heavier to pull the rotor.

Let me know what you think.

Adam

The idea is a fair one but the rotor in Al?s rig is approching 500 grams, and the general opinion is that the stator should be as light as posible. Using the brass shaft in this way separates the bearing from the stator magnet by some distance which hopefully will reduce bearing attraction drag , but having said that Al?s rig has the magnets plonked right on top of the bearings. If that plays a part i have no idea, just have to knock a few up to see,
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 14, 2008, 09:09:47 PM
Quote
800 rpm rotor speed, so you need 4 x that for the sync on the stator, so thats 3200 rpm, I think you'll need some ribs/bumps on the stator to allow it to be spun up to speed with the air line. Bit of a trade of with air resistance.

Have not turned the Tacho on the Stator magnets yet, will try that tomorrow, be interesting too see.
I actually have 2 tacho's here, so can monitor both at the same time :)

Quote
Could you use the tacho to find the max you can spin the stator at by finger?

The Big 20mm thick rotor max's out at around 400 RPM by hand.

Quote
The other thing to try is using the brass you have, increase the stator inertia to help the syncing process.
If you make a small flywheel about 12mm or larger out of brass rod, you could drill series of 2mm holes around the circumference to allow the air gun to work.
I think the holes will create only a small amount of drag compared to bumps.
Sorry for all the suggestions.

Will add them to the list LOL :)

Quote
I brought home two harddisks today with the idea of stripping them for bearings, but it is not that easy. Although I have a set of security torque drivers, some of the hub screws are too tiny even for my set.

I have stripped down many a hard drive and if you Rip out the guts of the motor so there is no drag you can find some really loose ones. You will no way get the Wind Down times of using RC bearings Top and Bottom like Craigy and I use, so do not be too disapointed when you find this out.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 14, 2008, 09:15:31 PM
Quote from: ken_nyus
Sorry I know it is a minor point, but in Al's stator the outer ring of the bearing rotates, here the inner ring rotates.

I know it is a minor point, but these are magnetic steel bearings.

Hi Ken

So is there more friction on the bearings spinning the outside ring or the inside ring?
Think about it :)

Cheers

Sean.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ken_nyus on January 14, 2008, 09:26:42 PM
Hi Ken

So is there more friction on the bearings spinning the outside ring or the inside ring?
Think about it :)

Cheers

Sean.



Hey Clanzer, I'm not thinking about the friction but the rotating (or not rotating) steel that is magnetic.

But please continue testing!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: FunkyJive on January 14, 2008, 09:29:24 PM
With so little time myself to build one of these things, I would like to ask if someone may be interested in building myself a suitable replication for a "consideration".

What's more, my electronics and scientific knowledge certainly doesn't make up for my lack of fabrication skills required for this device - though would be fun trying  ;D.

That said, I have a considerably simpler electronic counterpart of a motor in-mind (without any stall-points at-all), so perhaps an opportunity for further business if anyone were interested - strictly on the understanding that all findings and positive discoveries will remain public to this excellent forum?


All the best,

FunkyJive
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 14, 2008, 09:59:35 PM
@ Sean,

It may not matter, but I believe that with Al's setup, the stator magnets come to the "bottom" of the rotor magnets.  But I think this will make a difference for the latching effect, but if yours are adjustable, and it does not work, that is the first thing I would do, is drop your stators.

Great job as always,

Bruce
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 14, 2008, 10:14:16 PM
It may not matter, but I believe that with Al's setup, the stator magnets come to the "bottom" of the rotor magnets.  But I think this will make a difference for the latching effect, but if yours are adjustable, and it does not work, that is the first thing I would do, is drop your stators.

Hi Bruce

Think I may have to trawl through the 1000's of threads over at Steorn Forums to find this out.
Looking at the various pictures they all seem to show the Magnets level with the top of the rotor magnets, apart from this earlier rig that was photographed at a better angle to tell.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/snoc10.jpg)

Looks like they are half way down the rotor magnets maybe?

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: gdr on January 14, 2008, 10:26:49 PM
Hope this helps - quote from Al in Steorn forum in regards to someone else's rig:

"Just slight differences: the dampers on the real thing are mounted lower. It looks like everything is on the same plane in the model; in the real unit the plane of the rotor magnets skims the top edge of the plane of the stator magnets, and the damper plane skims the lower edge, if that makes sense."

BTW, great work... been intently lurking for quite some time  8)

-goofy
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: sterlinga on January 14, 2008, 10:46:54 PM
@ Jason,

Doug Furr asked me to see if I could get some clarification on what the damper things are for and how they mount.

My understanding is that they are to keep the thing from accellerating to destruction.

Any light you could shed on this would be appreciated.

Doug Furr had to go out of state today for an urgent meeting, so he'll probably be a day or two more before he's done with his replication.  I stopped in to see his progress last night.  He was machining the rotor on his CNC machine.  The base is done.  He showed me his bag of hundreds of magnets.

- - -

@ CLaNZer,

Would you mind providing me with your email address?  I understand you wish to keep it confidential, and I will honor that request.  Send to sterlingda {at} pureenergysystems.com.

Thanks

Sterling
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 14, 2008, 10:57:35 PM
OK, got the bearings. The storm didn't help but that place in Boston happened to have the exact recommended bearings. Once in a while one gets lucky. Off to the remaining parts.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: unzapped on January 14, 2008, 11:01:10 PM
Hello all here is my long awaited quote for parts as spec'd in the drawings for the whipmag replication...

>>Hi Jason.

>>We are quoting your parts, 10 assys for $83.75 each.

>>Thank you
>>Terri @ C&D

They are a little more expensive that I originally thought...

In the interest of getting something out of this....

If I get 9 orders... I can get them to you for $94 each plus shipping...
this will get me one for myself and One for each of the 9 lucky folks that want to pay $94 US for them.

In the unlikely event 9 of you are still interested, I have paypal, live in NY, and will take interest as it comes via PM so as to not clutter this thread with this...
I truly thought I could get these done cheaper, it is what it is...

I do know that the quality of the parts from this machine shop is superior, although not sure for a hundred bucks, you will still need to have bearings, magnets, and shafts.

Personally I will probably wait until, clanzer replicates, then build a giant one based on that.
Thanks
UZ
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Nicolas Roger on January 14, 2008, 11:35:20 PM
The LaFonte Group is expecting the magnets to arrive late today.  We will test tonight.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: mikestocks2006 on January 14, 2008, 11:50:05 PM
@ Jason,

Doug Furr asked me to see if I could get some clarification on what the damper things are for and how they mount.

My understanding is that they are to keep the thing from accellerating to destruction.

Any light you could shed on this would be appreciated.

Doug Furr had to go out of state today for an urgent meeting, so he'll probably be a day or two more before he's done with his replication.  I stopped in to see his progress last night.  He was machining the rotor on his CNC machine.  The base is done.  He showed me his bag of hundreds of magnets.

- - -

@ CLaNZer,

Would you mind providing me with your email address?  I understand you wish to keep it confidential, and I will honor that request.  Send to sterlingda {at} pureenergysystems.com.

Thanks

Sterling

Hi Alan,
quoted notes:
"...the unit runs faster without the magnokinetic Judson dampers. Typical stator speeds are 8000 rpm, rotor 2000. But the unit is quite unstable at those speeds, maybe due to the cheap bearings I used for the stators. But that's unknown, it could be that the bearing chatter actually contributes to the effect by some chaotic dynamical interaction. Don't ask me with what!
Anyway the unit will run up to high speed but only stays for a short time before the stator "drops out" and the rotor freewheels to a stop. I figured that a little eddy-current damping at high speeds (and proportionally less at low speeds, so the damping at startup speeds is essentially zero.) would do the trick. There was an adjustment process that took a couple hours to find the sweet spot and the orientation, and it seemed so close to an already drilled and tapped set of holes in the base, that I just used the existing holes, even though the positioning wasn't totally optimum..."

I hope this helps
Thanks
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: mikestocks2006 on January 14, 2008, 11:58:57 PM
It may not matter, but I believe that with Al's setup, the stator magnets come to the "bottom" of the rotor magnets.  But I think this will make a difference for the latching effect, but if yours are adjustable, and it does not work, that is the first thing I would do, is drop your stators.

Hi Bruce

Think I may have to trawl through the 1000's of threads over at Steorn Forums to find this out.
Looking at the various pictures they all seem to show the Magnets level with the top of the rotor magnets, apart from this earlier rig that was photographed at a better angle to tell.

Looks like they are half way down the rotor magnets maybe?

Cheers

Sean.


Hi Sean,
This may clarify the position of the stator magnets compared to the rotor:

quote:
"..., the relative height of the stator and rotor magnets seems important. I don't know if it's because of my particular geometry or whether it is critical to the effect itself, but the magnets shouldn't be in the same plane--that is, I am getting best results when the rotor magnets are rotating in a plane that is just slightly higher than the tops of the stator magnets, rather than down and centered vertically...."

I hope this helps
Thanks
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: geodan on January 15, 2008, 12:11:08 AM
Hello all here is my long awaited quote for parts as spec'd in the drawings for the whipmag replication...

>>Hi Jason.

>>We are quoting your parts, 10 assys for $83.75 each.

>>Thank you
>>Terri @ C&D

They are a little more expensive that I originally thought...

In the interest of getting something out of this....

If I get 9 orders... I can get them to you for $94 each plus shipping...
this will get me one for myself and One for each of the 9 lucky folks that want to pay $94 US for them.

In the unlikely event 9 of you are still interested, I have paypal, live in NY, and will take interest as it comes via PM so as to not clutter this thread with this...
I truly thought I could get these done cheaper, it is what it is...

I do know that the quality of the parts from this machine shop is superior, although not sure for a hundred bucks, you will still need to have bearings, magnets, and shafts.

Personally I will probably wait until, clanzer replicates, then build a giant one based on that.
Thanks
UZ

Sounds Great UZ

Please put me down for one of those babies!

I'm still waiting for a quote from SPM but I don't think that they'll be able to beat that price... (Hey Ken... are you in??)

Just want to make sure that materials are as recommended by Al  (rotor -  HDPE etc...)

Thanks

Geodan

Please send me
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: geodan on January 15, 2008, 12:13:09 AM
...sorry, fat fingered that...

Please send me contact information for payment / shipping arrangements.

Thanks

Geodan
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: unzapped on January 15, 2008, 12:29:03 AM
ok then, looks like I have two orders so far...

I know I could go back to find this info... the best material for the job was listing in the tech specs...
BUT, do we want a clear substrateinstead?

Thanks
UZ
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: vipond50 on January 15, 2008, 12:33:17 AM
Hi Just a quick post to state that i can get 500 rpm plus i.e. 511, 513, 524 rpm with a hand or finger start on the rotor with three 1/4" (6.35 diameter) cylinder mags/ slot. The rotor diameter is as per spec.
Bill
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: geodan on January 15, 2008, 12:38:46 AM
ok then, looks like I have two orders so far...

I know I could go back to find this info... the best material for the job was listing in the tech specs...
BUT, do we want a clear substrateinstead?

Thanks
UZ


"...But I do not recommend using polycarbonate (Lexan )for any part of the machine--it's in the wrong place on the triboelectric series, if one of my theories is correct.

Nor do I recommend acrylic plastic (Lucite, Plexiglas, Perspex?) for the rotor, if the base is acrylic. Different materials should probably be used. I used HDPE which at the opposite end of the plastic tribo series from acrylic.

----------------------------------------
The Delrin (or Acetal in the civilized world) is what I used for the early rotors and all the stator bearing/magnet holders, and the 3.5 mm to 1/2 in shaft adapter. It is by far the nicest plastic to machine. ..."

UZ - we should also consider altering the design so that we can move the stators / dampers around some... kind of like Sean did on his base... I want to be able to replicate but I also want to be able to tweak...

@Jason - What do you think??

Thanks

Geodanz
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: sterlinga on January 15, 2008, 12:52:37 AM
Doug Furr asked me to see if I could get some clarification on what the damper things are for and how they mount.

My understanding is that they are to keep the thing from accellerating to destruction.

Any light you could shed on this would be appreciated.

Hi Alan,
quoted notes:
"...the unit runs faster without the magnokinetic Judson dampers. Typical stator speeds are 8000 rpm, rotor 2000. But the unit is quite unstable at those speeds, maybe due to the cheap bearings I used for the stators. But that's unknown, it could be that the bearing chatter actually contributes to the effect by some chaotic dynamical interaction. Don't ask me with what! [...]"

I added this to http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:OC_MPMM_Magnet_Motor#Magnokinetic_Judson_dampers (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:OC_MPMM_Magnet_Motor#Magnokinetic_Judson_dampers)

Is there somewhere that describes the details of how to build/install the magnokinetic Judson dampers?

Thanks
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 15, 2008, 12:54:08 AM
Quote from: sterlinga
@ CLaNZer,

Would you mind providing me with your email address?  I understand you wish to keep it confidential, and I will honor that request.  Send to sterlingda {at} pureenergysystems.com.

Sorry for the delay, I can only give 18 hours a day for this project over the last week  ;D ;D ;D
I really should go back to work instead of playing, but what the hell , that's one of the joys of being self employed. ummmmmmm no seriously I should go do some work..... Okay maybe next week LOL

My public email is clanzer@clanzer.co.uk please feel free to email me and I will help where I can.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ken_nyus on January 15, 2008, 12:56:27 AM
Doug Furr asked me to see if I could get some clarification on what the damper things are for and how they mount.

My understanding is that they are to keep the thing from accellerating to destruction.

Any light you could shed on this would be appreciated.

Hi Alan,
quoted notes:
"...the unit runs faster without the magnokinetic Judson dampers. Typical stator speeds are 8000 rpm, rotor 2000. But the unit is quite unstable at those speeds, maybe due to the cheap bearings I used for the stators. But that's unknown, it could be that the bearing chatter actually contributes to the effect by some chaotic dynamical interaction. Don't ask me with what! [...]"

I added this to http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:OC_MPMM_Magnet_Motor#Magnokinetic_Judson_dampers (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:OC_MPMM_Magnet_Motor#Magnokinetic_Judson_dampers)

Is there somewhere that describes the details of how to build/install the magnokinetic Judson dampers?

Thanks

Only quote I found and collected from Al at Steorn, when someone repeatedly asked for clarification on how the dampers were "adjusted"....


"...The dampers are tuned by trial and error. If too close they retard the magnet too much and it won't synch. Too far and there's no benefit. Once the distance is found, rotating a little at a time and trying the spin until I found a "sweet spot" is how I did it. The effect of the dampers is small, in any case..."
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ken_nyus on January 15, 2008, 01:00:31 AM
To all replicators:

Are you using N35 or N42 rotor mags?

I think everyone has the same N42 stator ring mags.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: vipond50 on January 15, 2008, 01:02:57 AM
N42 Stator and N42 rotor mags

B.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ken_nyus on January 15, 2008, 01:03:59 AM
My understanding is Al used N35 for the rotor mags. I ordered N42 as per the parts list. (also rectangular rather than cylindrical).
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Dyamios on January 15, 2008, 01:04:12 AM
To all replicators:

Are you using N35 or N42 rotor mags?

I think everyone has the same N42 stator ring mags.

Indeed, the fact that the flux strength seems to be stronger (perhaps overly strong) in Clanzer's replication appears to create a sort of "magnetic drag" type of situation which causes the rotor to come to a standstill sooner. Now.. if the device does indeed work, it seems this would increase the torque produced.

However, it may be critical for the flux strength between the stators and rotor to be within a certain key interval, and thus if the stator magnets are stronger, they should be moved farther away from the rotor.

Just a thought  :)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 15, 2008, 01:05:51 AM
This may clarify the position of the stator magnets compared to the rotor:

quote:
"..., the relative height of the stator and rotor magnets seems important. I don't know if it's because of my particular geometry or whether it is critical to the effect itself, but the magnets shouldn't be in the same plane--that is, I am getting best results when the rotor magnets are rotating in a plane that is just slightly higher than the tops of the stator magnets, rather than down and centered vertically...."

Thanks for that Mike

I will try and raise them above. ummm maybe need some sort of adjustment mechanism here.
I could always cut a number of brass spacers in 1mm increments.

Will have a think on this.

Cheers

Sean.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 15, 2008, 01:07:29 AM
Hi Just a quick post to state that i can get 500 rpm plus i.e. 511, 513, 524 rpm with a hand or finger start on the rotor with three 1/4" (6.35 diameter) cylinder mags/ slot. The rotor diameter is as per spec.
Bill

Good going Bill, is this with the Stator magnets in place?
What is the weight of your rotor?

Get some pictures up! I am feeling lonely here :)


Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 15, 2008, 01:46:52 AM
This may clarify the position of the stator magnets compared to the rotor:

quote:
"..., the relative height of the stator and rotor magnets seems important. I don't know if it's because of my particular geometry or whether it is critical to the effect itself, but the magnets shouldn't be in the same plane--that is, I am getting best results when the rotor magnets are rotating in a plane that is just slightly higher than the tops of the stator magnets, rather than down and centered vertically...."

Thanks for that Mike

I will try and raise them above. ummm maybe need some sort of adjustment mechanism here.
I could always cut a number of brass spacers in 1mm increments.

Will have a think on this.

Cheers

Sean.



Hi Sean,

You could perhaps use brass or rubber washers to lift up the rotor to the needed height.  I think you will find that difference will affect the synch, according to Al.

@ All,

I too received my magnets today!   ;D  My OCAL magneto judson dampers are on the way via the mail box.  (Sterling, they are simply solid aluminum 1/2" diameter, 1/4" thick round.  It has a hole in the center, large enough for a 4-40 screw, of brass or nylon to go through it, and thread into the base.  Please see Jason's drawing.pdf . )

Jason, Hank and I are going a different route than many.  We are attempting an exact replication.  We don't want to change a thing just yet.  In all honesty I am concerned about some "replications" I have seen on youtube.  I have seen bearings that look as if they came out of a rollerskate, it is so big.  :o People just using any old tid bits around.  Now if this works, will all of that, then great.  But if it does not, will those youtuber's scream, "It does not work!" When in reality, they have not replicated the OCAL, but rather their own interpretation of it, built with spit and tape. 

I am certainly NOT knocking peoples hard work.  But I want people to be prepared to ask hard questions, if someone claims that it does not work.  Cutting corners with such a rare "anomaly" as this, is not recommended.

There are still two dimensions Jason and I think are needed for exact accuracy, and Jason will post about that soon, for someone to ask Al.

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: crash_uni8 on January 15, 2008, 03:25:50 AM
hi im trying to replicate this too ;D
quick question im looking at the .pdf of the motor and i haven't a clue....i attached the pdf
does anyone know what the length of one side of the octagon rotor is on page 3?

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Mr.Entropy on January 15, 2008, 04:01:31 AM
does anyone know what the length of one side of the octagon rotor is on page 3?

Well, the drawing says it's 2.375" from the center to the inner edge, which makes the inner edge 2.375*2*tan(22.5) = 1.968" long. Check my math.

But, I'm pretty sure I heard Al say that it was 2.5" to the inner edge (not the center of the trough), which would make these drawings wrong.

Lemme check...

Yes, in here:
http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=59687&page=6#Item_49

He says:

The rotor is 3/4 in thick piece of HDPE plastic, 2 7/8 in radius, with a 0.500 in center hole bored all the way thru for the flanged axle bearings. Magnets are held in 8 evenly-spaced 1/4 in wide slots, 7/16 in deep, inner edge of slots at the 2 1/2 in radius from center

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

EDIT: fixed length calculation
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ashtweth_nihilisti on January 15, 2008, 04:04:08 AM
Guys just thought i would drop this off, i have a Panacea registered engineer (with allot of experience) building this for us ATM, will have full write up and disclosure if it gets working, here is the Blue prints he provided , hope it helps some one, am not back, am very busy these days working on Two open sourced devices will have them ready soon for third party testing.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7513/rotorlayoutjj6.jpg
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9560/baseplatelayouttz1.jpg
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3757/statorbearingmagnetadapps2.jpg
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ken_nyus on January 15, 2008, 04:23:58 AM
But, I'm pretty sure I heard Al say that it was 2.5" to the inner edge (not the center of the trough), which would make these drawings wrong.

Lemme check...

Yes, in here:
http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=59687&page=6#Item_49

He says:

The rotor is 3/4 in thick piece of HDPE plastic, 2 7/8 in radius, with a 0.500 in center hole bored all the way thru for the flanged axle bearings. Magnets are held in 8 evenly-spaced 1/4 in wide slots, 7/16 in deep, inner edge of slots at the 2 1/2 in radius from center

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

I noticed that too, I think the file "drawings.pdf" has it off, it is taking the center of the rotor magnet as 2.5" from center.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jdo300 on January 15, 2008, 04:48:38 AM
Hello All,

About the blueprints. That dimension is different than what Al originally said because while I was drawing the rotor, I noticed a big discrepancy in the appearance of the rotor disk using the given measurements compared to the photos of the original. Look here to read the post about it (Pictures included):

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3871.msg68313.html#msg68313

Also, here is Al's reply to my finding:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3871.msg68742.html#msg68742

Additionally, I had Al verify that all the stated dimensions in my blueprints are accurate. Here is his post regarding that as well:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3871.msg69936.html#msg69936

I hope this clears up the confusion.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jdo300 on January 15, 2008, 05:07:27 AM
ok then, looks like I have two orders so far...

I know I could go back to find this info... the best material for the job was listing in the tech specs...
BUT, do we want a clear substrateinstead?

Thanks
UZ


"...But I do not recommend using polycarbonate (Lexan )for any part of the machine--it's in the wrong place on the triboelectric series, if one of my theories is correct.

Nor do I recommend acrylic plastic (Lucite, Plexiglas, Perspex?) for the rotor, if the base is acrylic. Different materials should probably be used. I used HDPE which at the opposite end of the plastic tribo series from acrylic.

----------------------------------------
The Delrin (or Acetal in the civilized world) is what I used for the early rotors and all the stator bearing/magnet holders, and the 3.5 mm to 1/2 in shaft adapter. It is by far the nicest plastic to machine. ..."

UZ - we should also consider altering the design so that we can move the stators / dampers around some... kind of like Sean did on his base... I want to be able to replicate but I also want to be able to tweak...

@Jason - What do you think??

Thanks

Geodanz

Hi Geodanz,

I also plan to make a tweakable model of this motor, but for the first off model, i think it will be imperative to built it as close to spec as possible. We do not know what underlying mechanism and factors are making it run, so changing even the slightest details may result in a dud. The only adjustable parameter on my setup is the rotor height. I am going with the simple bolt axle (which Al also used in his model when he first got it working). The screw gives us the ability to adjust both the horizontal and vertical spacing between the rotor and stator magnets, which as others have already pointed out, is a key parameter. Since I am using N42 Neos for the rotor, My guess is that the gap will need to be just a hair wider than what Al used to compensate for the greater field intensity.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: LaFonte Group OC replication status
Post by: Butch on January 15, 2008, 05:10:44 AM
Mark received correct magnets today and installed them and has been testing for several hours, but has not had any self running indications so far. This is what we all need to replicated the results seen on the original and only video shown on Youtube.
1. RPM of rotor and RPM of stator when the system gets in "tune" and starts to accelerate.
2. A new video with good lighting and the bottom side of the rotor shown during operation as well as side views during operation.
3. A new video showing the rotor up to speed and staying there for a time limited only by the size of the video files Youtube will allow.
4. If possible the name and a way of contacting "OC" by phone so the replication project can be approached in a "normal" professional
matter. If you will notice, on Sterling Allen's site, people give their full names as is a practice in the scientific community. It would give this site more creditability with venture captialist's and the scientific community in general. If someone is worried about "big oil" finding out who they are, well it would only take them one phone call and one hour to find out where anyone on this list lives. You can do that when you have endless billions of dollars at your disposal. I also believe that not giving all infomation to the public and being the only one with that information puts a person or persons in a very dangerous position where "big oil" is concerned. The best way is to get the information out to millions and then there is nothing to be accomplished by going to the original inventor. In fact, it just draws more attention to the situation. The web is the achilles heel for the powers that be, so take advantage of it.
5. In closing, videos taken if different locations, parking lot, or with a number of people in attendance would get more people to attempt replication. The LaFonte group has always had a policy that if we get a self runner, anyone can come by and see it operating and to a degree examine it. I feel certain that main stream science is ready to accept us if we just conduct ourselfs the way all scientists do when they have a breakthrough. They publish papers with their real names on it after patents are filed if they are seeking a patent. If not they just publish them for open sourcing.
We are spending lots of money, time, and energy trying to replicate many different designs as well as our own designs. I feel it's time overunity research everywhere became more like Sterling Allen's site
with peoples real names and then they could be contacted by parties they would be interested in speaking with.
I short, I think our movement has some growing up to do, myself included. Lets stop hiding, come out in the open, be professional, real people, using real names and we will become accepted more by the world at large. This is scientific research, not a club house.
This is my personal opinion, I have not discussed this with any LaFonte Group members before posting this.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte
 
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jdo300 on January 15, 2008, 05:30:09 AM
Hi Butch,

I definitely agree with you about the points for the video. The problem though is that Al (the replicator who posted the video) would not have even released the one we all have if Omnibus hadn't pressured him into it; and after he did, he got all kinds of flack from people calling him a fraud. Al is already a bonified skeptic and does not seem to show any signs of believing that this motor's behavior is anything more than an interesting "artifact." I doubt that we can expect to see any more videos from him. But then again, who knows?

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 15, 2008, 05:41:40 AM
Mark received correct magnets today and installed them and has been testing for several hours, but has not had any self running indications so far. This is what we all need to replicated the results seen on the original and only video shown on Youtube.
1. RPM of rotor and RPM of stator when the system gets in "tune" and starts to accelerate.
2. A new video with good lighting and the bottom side of the rotor shown during operation as well as side views during operation.
3. A new video showing the rotor up to speed and staying there for a time limited only by the size of the video files Youtube will allow.
4. If possible the name and a way of contacting "OC" by phone so the replication project can be approached in a "normal" professional
matter. If you will notice, on Sterling Allen's site, people give their full names as is a practice in the scientific community. It would give this site more creditability with venture captialist's and the scientific community in general. If someone is worried about "big oil" finding out who they are, well it would only take them one phone call and one hour to find out where anyone on this list lives. You can do that when you have endless billions of dollars at your disposal. I also believe that not giving all infomation to the public and being the only one with that information puts a person or persons in a very dangerous position where "big oil" is concerned. The best way is to get the information out to millions and then there is nothing to be accomplished by going to the original inventor. In fact, it just draws more attention to the situation. The web is the achilles heel for the powers that be, so take advantage of it.
5. In closing, videos taken if different locations, parking lot, or with a number of people in attendance would get more people to attempt replication. The LaFonte group has always had a policy that if we get a self runner, anyone can come by and see it operating and to a degree examine it. I feel certain that main stream science is ready to accept us if we just conduct ourselfs the way all scientists do when they have a breakthrough. They publish papers with their real names on it after patents are filed if they are seeking a patent. If not they just publish them for open sourcing.
We are spending lots of money, time, and energy trying to replicate many different designs as well as our own designs. I feel it's time overunity research everywhere became more like Sterling Allen's site
with peoples real names and then they could be contacted by parties they would be interested in speaking with.
I short, I think our movement has some growing up to do, myself included. Lets stop hiding, come out in the open, be professional, real people, using real names and we will become accepted more by the world at large. This is scientific research, not a club house.
This is my personal opinion, I have not discussed this with any LaFonte Group members before posting this.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte
 

I always use my real name, so I will reply.  I do not think that better video will help your group with this replication.  So everyone needs to take the video in the context in which it was made.  And Al never posted the video to sway the masses, and kept it up for only 20 minutes or so.  He is a skeptic to OU.  He is still working on this "anomaly" though. 

He is either a liar, or truthful.  Plain and simple.  I have read all of his posts, and I believe he is very truthful.  I do not believe he hoaxed it.  Nor do I believe that Sean and many others have hoaxed, getting anti gear sync.  (I believe there have been 5 now.)

Watching your groups first video on youtube was disappointing. 
1.  The voice of skepticism
2.  The rotor was being spun much faster than the stator.  This is ridiculous if your group had been listening to the fact that there is a 4 to 1 sync between the stator magnet and rotor.  So the stator should be spinning 4 times faster than the rotor. 
3.  Your groups center bearing looks awfully big.  What blue print did you go off of to build your replication. 
4.  Has your group tried switching bearings?  Al reported that not all magnet bearing couples work, for whatever reason.  3 out of his 13 did not work at all.  (self powered).

So my advice?  Back to the bench, or await other replications. 

Cheers,

Bruce

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: vipond50 on January 15, 2008, 06:37:19 AM
@Crashuni1
Here's another Drawing of the Rotor Jason did an excellent job, but i alway work up my own so I can do amendments if needed.

Thanks Jason
Bill
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: JAG on January 15, 2008, 06:51:57 AM
Al just posted this at the Steorn Site.

What I've seen look really good, I think people are doing some impressive work, and I hope having some fun too.

I don't have much time
But here are a few tips

First, safety. Safety First!
--do not leave magnets lying around loose, even for a few moments. They are easy to lose control of, and hot flying pieces and pinch hazards are to be taken seriously. I use metal jar lids as magnet trays.
--do NOT grind, burn, etc. these NdBFe magnets! The dust is toxic and otherwise obnoxious, the fumes are toxic and smelly, etc.
--do not rely on adhesives! use structure to retain magnets against fields and forces.

Next, machining acrylic plastic and polycarbonate:
--Use WD-40 or clean kerosene (NOT GASOLINE OR PETROL!) as a cutting lubricant to keep drills, taps and other tooling cool and cutting well. Beware of alcohols--acrylic crazes and loses strength on exposure to alcohol--even the alcohol in a Sharpie marker will craze the acrylic over time, and cracks will occur. Wash the WD-40 off with dishsoap and warm water.
--plastic supply companies sell special drill bits with a sharper tip angle that won't crack or pull though the plastic. They are well worth the price.
--I usually use bottoming taps even when starting, in plastic, I rarely need the plug tap to start a tapped hole. The bottoming tap makes a better thread I think.

On perseverance:
--It took me literally days of spinning and experimenting before I had a hint that something interesting might be happening--the decreased rotor drag that I first noted before the holidays. After that, more days of trial and error and serendipitous mistakes before I even found the AGW rotation modes. By Accident! So don't get discouraged if nothing seems to work--you may not have the right components or something, or it's not put together right. Recall also that about half my magnet-bearing pairs are ineffective.
--I would guess that most people will get decreased drag and increased rundown times if they get the magnets right. But extended run times like I saw are probably a result of some EM interaction that's happening in my apartment and at work. For sure it isn't anything like OU.
Title: Re: LaFonte Group OC replication status
Post by: JAG on January 15, 2008, 06:57:13 AM
Mark received correct magnets today and installed them and has been testing for several hours, but has not had any self running indications so far. This is what we all need to replicated the results seen on the original and only video shown on Youtube.
1. RPM of rotor and RPM of stator when the system gets in "tune" and starts to accelerate.
2. A new video with good lighting and the bottom side of the rotor shown during operation as well as side views during operation.
3. A new video showing the rotor up to speed and staying there for a time limited only by the size of the video files Youtube will allow.
4. If possible the name and a way of contacting "OC" by phone so the replication project can be approached in a "normal" professional
matter. If you will notice, on Sterling Allen's site, people give their full names as is a practice in the scientific community. It would give this site more creditability with venture captialist's and the scientific community in general. If someone is worried about "big oil" finding out who they are, well it would only take them one phone call and one hour to find out where anyone on this list lives. You can do that when you have endless billions of dollars at your disposal. I also believe that not giving all infomation to the public and being the only one with that information puts a person or persons in a very dangerous position where "big oil" is concerned. The best way is to get the information out to millions and then there is nothing to be accomplished by going to the original inventor. In fact, it just draws more attention to the situation. The web is the achilles heel for the powers that be, so take advantage of it.
5. In closing, videos taken if different locations, parking lot, or with a number of people in attendance would get more people to attempt replication. The LaFonte group has always had a policy that if we get a self runner, anyone can come by and see it operating and to a degree examine it. I feel certain that main stream science is ready to accept us if we just conduct ourselfs the way all scientists do when they have a breakthrough. They publish papers with their real names on it after patents are filed if they are seeking a patent. If not they just publish them for open sourcing.
We are spending lots of money, time, and energy trying to replicate many different designs as well as our own designs. I feel it's time overunity research everywhere became more like Sterling Allen's site
with peoples real names and then they could be contacted by parties they would be interested in speaking with.
I short, I think our movement has some growing up to do, myself included. Lets stop hiding, come out in the open, be professional, real people, using real names and we will become accepted more by the world at large. This is scientific research, not a club house.
This is my personal opinion, I have not discussed this with any LaFonte Group members before posting this.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte
 

Butch...Overconfident asked me to post this here in response

My response to #4 above:

I had an idea inspired by a dream. I have spent several months of my time just trying to get someone to consider the idea. Al is the only person who has. I do not have the education, knowledge, skills, or desire to develop this myself. I don't want money or fame, just someone to give some serious consideration to the idea I posted here. Talking with me would serve no purpose. I prefer to remain anonymous.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 15, 2008, 07:35:37 AM
@Butch,

Never thought I would say this, I agree with you totally on these issues. People hiding in the shadows makes me feel..
well, distrustful. People should have the courage of their convictions, you know, it's still ok to be wrong. To err is human, etc etc..

Nuf Said

Dean
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: schoolboy2000 on January 15, 2008, 07:43:58 AM
Butch,

I volunteer to witness it when you get it working. I say "when" because I really have faith you and others will be able to replicate Al's work.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 15, 2008, 08:04:37 AM
Butch,

I volunteer to witness it when you get it working. I say "when" because I really have faith you and others will be able to replicate Al's work.
An anonymous witness isn't much use is it.  :)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: schoolboy2000 on January 15, 2008, 09:27:59 AM
Grimer,

It wouldn't be anonymous if I witnessed it, I'd obviously disclose, although that won't drive away the skeptics, it's more of an offer to satisfy my own curiosity and "maybe" provide some support. But, it's more than any other video or projects have provided since none of them that I've seen have any witnesses or after the fact confirmation.
Title: Re: LaFonte Group OC replication status
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 15, 2008, 11:35:27 AM
Mark received correct magnets today and installed them and has been testing for several hours, but has not had any self running indications so far. This is what we all need to replicated the results seen on the original and only video shown on Youtube.
Butch LaFonte

Hi Butch

Could you let Mark know that his Spam Filter on his Email is stopping me from replying to him.
The emails I send just get bounced back.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: JAG on January 15, 2008, 01:05:47 PM
posted at the Steorn forum

CommentAuthoroldHorseface CommentTime1 hour ago edited  permalink
I have build a quick and funky new system where I get a short burst of acceleration, then a sustained speed for 10 seconds, then it slows down to stop in 20 seconds.
My stator is the same one from my Lego setup, but my rotor is 12" in diameter with 12 magnets facing outward alternating north-south. (unlike the OCAL system or my last Lego setup)
I think if anyone is getting AGW lock, you got it happening, you just need to reduce friction and tweek your alignment.
As AL said, the distance between rotor and stator is citical and different for every type of system. Anyone building a test jig should make that distance variable.
I am going out to Burbank tomorrow to get more magnets (disc neos) and try some more things.
I have seen energy from permanent magnets! I think I'm going to cry.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: xumed on January 15, 2008, 01:29:05 PM
Quote
CommentAuthoroldHorseface CommentTime1 hour ago edited  permalink
I have build a quick and funky new system where I get a short burst of acceleration, then a sustained speed for 10 seconds, then it slows down to stop in 20 seconds.
My stator is the same one from my Lego setup, but my rotor is 12" in diameter with 12 magnets facing outward alternating north-south. (unlike the OCAL system or my last Lego setup)
I think if anyone is getting AGW lock, you got it happening, you just need to reduce friction and tweek your alignment.
As AL said, the distance between rotor and stator is citical and different for every type of system. Anyone building a test jig should make that distance variable.
I am going out to Burbank tomorrow to get more magnets (disc neos) and try some more things.
I have seen energy from permanent magnets! I think I'm going to cry.

The burst of acceleration, is that just the stator magnet ?

If it is this would be expected until the stator speed matches the rotor speed (probably by the ratio most mention of 1:4). Spinning the stator AGW fast enough gets it going inphase and latching in AGW rotation, then it would accelerate under the force of the rotor magnets until it reaches a stable speed.

What would be really interesting is if the rotor was seen to accelerate more so than the stators.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Rosphere on January 15, 2008, 01:35:44 PM
Does anyone have any thoughts about the following detail that I noticed in Al's video:

At the point when he stops the two 'coasting' stators with his thumbs, I noticed that one happens to stop with its white-half towards the rotor while the other happens to stop with its black-half towards the rotor.  Then we hear it accelerate.  Then he lets go.

I expected to see the stators start spinning again.  Maybe the rotor was moving too fast.  The stators just sat there, with one exception; the 'black-half in-facing' stator does not move, while the 'white-half in-facing' stator slowly rolls over 180 degrees and stops to present its black-half towards the rotor, making two 'black-half in-facing' stators.  The rotor is balanced magnetically, what is causing this bias?

Ponder that while I slave away for the man all day.  ;)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: argona369 on January 15, 2008, 03:48:44 PM
Al just posted this at the Steorn Site.

What I've seen look really good, I think people are doing some impressive work, and I hope having some fun too.

I don't have much time
But here are a few tips

First, safety. Safety First!
--do not leave magnets lying around loose, even for a few moments. They are easy to lose control of, and hot flying pieces and pinch hazards are to be taken seriously. I use metal jar lids as magnet trays.
--do NOT grind, burn, etc. these NdBFe magnets! The dust is toxic and otherwise obnoxious, the fumes are toxic and smelly, etc.
--do not rely on adhesives! use structure to retain magnets against fields and forces.

Next, machining acrylic plastic and polycarbonate:
--Use WD-40 or clean kerosene (NOT GASOLINE OR PETROL!) as a cutting lubricant to keep drills, taps and other tooling cool and cutting well. Beware of alcohols--acrylic crazes and loses strength on exposure to alcohol--even the alcohol in a Sharpie marker will craze the acrylic over time, and cracks will occur. Wash the WD-40 off with dishsoap and warm water.
--plastic supply companies sell special drill bits with a sharper tip angle that won't crack or pull though the plastic. They are well worth the price.
--I usually use bottoming taps even when starting, in plastic, I rarely need the plug tap to start a tapped hole. The bottoming tap makes a better thread I think.

On perseverance:
--It took me literally days of spinning and experimenting before I had a hint that something interesting might be happening--the decreased rotor drag that I first noted before the holidays. After that, more days of trial and error and serendipitous mistakes before I even found the AGW rotation modes. By Accident! So don't get discouraged if nothing seems to work--you may not have the right components or something, or it's not put together right. Recall also that about half my magnet-bearing pairs are ineffective.
--I would guess that most people will get decreased drag and increased rundown times if they get the magnets right. But extended run times like I saw are probably a result of some EM interaction that's happening in my apartment and at work. For sure it isn't anything like OU.


>For sure it isn't anything like OU

Ummm, not OU?
That is a interesting statement that someone would make
only if the knew (for sure) that it wasn?t OU?
sounds like a game to me.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: canam101 on January 15, 2008, 04:03:39 PM
Quote
Ummm, not OU?
That is a interesting statement that someone would make
only if the knew (for sure) that it wasn?t OU?
sounds like a game to me.

It's starting to sound that way to me too. For someone who has invented the greatest thing since fire, he is awfully casual about it.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ken_nyus on January 15, 2008, 04:05:24 PM
@Crashuni1
Here's another Drawing of the Rotor Jason did an excellent job, but i alway work up my own so I can do amendments if needed.

Thanks Jason
Bill

I guess that is yet another way to interpret the 2.5" spacing of the rotor mags, you take it to mean 2.5" to one of the corners of the octagon, not the flat face.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jinis on January 15, 2008, 04:24:30 PM
Quote
Ummm, not OU?

Sure NOT OU. Energy comes from the magnets! If we would be able to calculate maximal amount of energy what we can extract from the magnets and the energy extracted by this device, we would see - it should be not OU.  ;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: argona369 on January 15, 2008, 04:43:34 PM
Quote
Ummm, not OU?

Sure NOT OU. Energy comes from the magnets! If we would be able to calculate maximal amount of energy what we can extract from the magnets and the energy extracted by this device, we would see - it should be not OU.  ;D

Ok, then would he be willing to call it  ?free energy??
Or, is it more conventional say, equal to the degaussing of the magnets.
I.e. ?using up? the energy used to magnetize the magnets.
Over-unity  and free energy are synonyms in my mind,
Which could be argued  endlessly (and pointlessly as well).
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 15, 2008, 05:04:33 PM
Quote
Ummm, not OU?

Sure NOT OU. Energy comes from the magnets!
The amount of energy magnets have is negligible. If the energy came from the magnets then the magnets would loose their magnetisation. They don't.

The energy comes through the magnets from the surrounding environment, the magnetic potential the magnetic pressure. The magnets are releasing that potential, that pressure like a tap releasing the pressure in the mains.

Jag had the right idea, the right appreciation of things. He wrote:
 ooooooooooI have seen energy from permanent magnets! I think I'm going to cry.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 15, 2008, 05:11:26 PM
Quote
Ummm, not OU?

Sure NOT OU. Energy comes from the magnets! If we would be able to calculate maximal amount of energy what we can extract from the magnets and the energy extracted by this device, we would see - it should be not OU.  ;D

Ok, then would he be willing to call it  ?free energy??
Or, is it more conventional say, equal to the degaussing of the magnets.
I.e. ?using up? the energy used to magnetize the magnets.
Over-unity  and free energy are synonyms in my mind,
Which could be argued  endlessly (and pointlessly as well).
The energy comes from a potential source that, till now, we had not learned to tap.

Now we have.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 15, 2008, 05:13:02 PM
Yet another update.

The HDPE 20mm Sheet and Rod arrived today, so have knocked up a Rotor and some new Stator holders:

First I cut the Rod into 16mm lengths.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/Snr1.jpg)

Then I drilled them out with 6mm all the way through and 12.5mm 6mm deep.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/Snr2.jpg)

Magnets fitted nice and snug.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/Snr3.jpg)

Bearings again fitted great.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/Snr4.jpg)

Next I lathed some 8mm Brass Rods for the shafts.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/Snr5.jpg)

I threaded the bottoms of the shafts so they can mount on my base using 3mm brass screws.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/Snr6.jpg)

Next I cut out the 20mm Rotor and weighed it up.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/snr7.jpg)

Rotor fitted and Stators all in place.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/Snr8.jpg)

I am waiting now for some 6mm * 13mm Rod magnets to arrive, but may try the Cubes again, but this time only using 2 on each edge rather than 3.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: magpower on January 15, 2008, 05:19:19 PM
Looks Real Nice Sean looking forward to results. My Update is mine already and still waiting for Stator magnets. I thought last night but very slow coming for my location. I had 2" rod and what a mess to lathe it down, but did it.

Cheers
Wayne
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 15, 2008, 05:45:12 PM
hi sean , built a few more of my mk1 stators using 2 separate 4 x5 neos in a wheel. while they all look identical, i have one of the three that does a AGW spin with a tickle. just bear that in mind wen testing and test all stators for performance, some work better than others lol
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: orange813 on January 15, 2008, 05:53:59 PM
Sean,

A small suggestion: you may want to lathe out some acrylic/HDPE rods to replace the metal screws that hold up your rotor axle support bar. It's possible that it may be significant to the design and may be interacting with the fields, since Al's rig didn't have that.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: vipond50 on January 15, 2008, 06:20:35 PM
@Crashuni1
Here's another Drawing of the Rotor Jason did an excellent job, but i alway work up my own so I can do amendments if needed.

Thanks Jason
Bill

I guess that is yet another way to interpret the 2.5" spacing of the rotor mags, you take it to mean 2.5" to one of the corners of the octagon, not the flat face.
Ok Ken & Group
What's the OD of the Rotor 2.875" or 3.0" ?
If measured other than other than what i show there is only 0.0440" of material left.

Bill
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Aphiticus on January 15, 2008, 06:34:40 PM
Rosphere,

In regards to your thoughts about the stator:

If you only use one stator magnet and spin the rotor to get in sync you will have an unbalanced system.  Look at what magnets do, they just pull and push each other depending on the pole.  So when you have the other two stator magnets on the outside of the rotor it balances the rotor so that there is an equal amount of pull on all sides of the rotor.  If you move one stator magnet closer to the rotor, should you not move the other two the exact same distance? 

Now heres the trick, the one stator magnet that does its clock wise rotation with the rotor also unbalances the system because it pushes and pulls, so if you have the other two magnets going clockwise also then they are all in sync working together. 

The only other way to get the magnets in sync working together is to have those two magnets as neutrals not helping but also not causing any drag.  Alsetalokin achieved this by stopping the two outside stator magnets from spinning after the one stator was in sync doing its clockwise rotation with the rotor.  Doing this stopped the constant pull that those stator magnets were doing on the system.  With them stopped he got a push, pull, push, pull, push pull from those stopped magnets as the rotor continued to spin thus giving he rotor maximum ability to speed up because the whole system was working in a fashion with one stator in flux doing the work.  Its the only magnet we got doing a clockwise rotation with the rotor.  The system is in balance using the two extra stators as neutrals.

Then you have another slight issue which might not be an issue but i call it an infinity gap which if you can find a bridge then the rotor will spin forever (of course after getting the timing, distance, weight down to perfection).  The stators are all on a constant push, pull, push, push with nothing behind them unlike the rotor which is balanced.  My suggestion for them would be to create neutral stators directly behind them to help balance the system, its a small fix that should reduce the constant pull at least from the only stator doing the work.

I hope this helps, i put a lot of thought into it and felt i should share.

Adam Barnett

Title: Sean CLaNZeR's replication of the OC MPMM Magnet Motor
Post by: sterlinga on January 15, 2008, 07:02:16 PM
I haven't checked the posts here for a few hours.  Maybe one of you has already pointed this out.

I've created a feature page regarding Sean CLaNZeR's replication of the OC MPMM Magnet Motor.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications:CLaNZeR (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications:CLaNZeR)

"On Jan. 13, 2008, using a temporary stator magnet configuration, awaiting arrival of the proper stator magnets, CLaNZeR showed brief acceleration in his replication of "Overconfident's" all-magnet motor built by Al... As far as we can tell, this marks the first successful replication of the effect to any extent. "

Congratulations to him!

Again, if anyone else reports success (or failure), please send me an email <sterlingda {at} pureenergysystems.com>, so I can note it on the PESWiki site.  (You're also welcome to update the pages yourself.)

I've subdivided the page into multiple sub pages:
- http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:OC_MPMM_Magnet_Motor (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:OC_MPMM_Magnet_Motor)
- http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Latest (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Latest)
- http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Plans (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Plans)
- http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Theory (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Theory)
- http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications)
- http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Data (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Data)
- http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Forums (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Forums)
- http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Related_Sites (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Related_Sites)

Feel free to create a new page featuring replicas.  You can use the CLaNZeR page as a template.

Doug Furr has had additional things come up to slow him down on his replication.  He'll probably be done tomorrow.  We've had a guy from a professional video outfit nearby volunteer to do the filming, which is very nice.

Sterling
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ken_nyus on January 15, 2008, 07:02:44 PM
@Crashuni1
Here's another Drawing of the Rotor Jason did an excellent job, but i alway work up my own so I can do amendments if needed.

Thanks Jason
Bill

I guess that is yet another way to interpret the 2.5" spacing of the rotor mags, you take it to mean 2.5" to one of the corners of the octagon, not the flat face.
Ok Ken & Group
What's the OD of the Rotor 2.875" or 3.0" ?
If measured other than other than what i show there is only 0.0440" of material left.

Bill

I think there is confusion here, I have seen 2.5" from the corner of the octagon in your drawing (which to me actually looks closer to the photographs), I have seen 2.5" to the center of the rotor magnet (the midle of the channel), and then on steorn someone thinks it should be 2.5" to the inside flat face of the octagon.

The poster that thinks it is 2.5" to the flat face of the octagon, also thinks the radius of the rotor should be 3" rather than 2.875".

When I look at the photos, the magnet channel (which is 0.25") looks about the same thickness as the thickest part of the material left on the outside of the rotor (the crescent shaped pieces), but it would be easy to miss a 1/16th difference in the photos.

It is hard to say, may have to study the photos closely.

Al seems to have disappeared from the steorn forums, so no info from the source right now!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 15, 2008, 07:04:42 PM
Damn it we have been scammed again .. :( Gullible bunch aren't we .. bugger !!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: jcims on January 15, 2008, 07:18:15 PM
Al seems to have disappeared from the steorn forums, so no info from the source right now!
He checked in yesterday and today... Steorn forum search (http://www.steorn.com/forum/search.php?PostBackAction=Search&Keywords=alsetalokin%3A&Type=Comments&btnSubmit=Search)

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: geodan on January 15, 2008, 08:13:23 PM
Al seems to have disappeared from the steorn forums, so no info from the source right now!
He checked in yesterday and today... Steorn forum search (http://www.steorn.com/forum/search.php?PostBackAction=Search&Keywords=alsetalokin%3A&Type=Comments&btnSubmit=Search)


There was a post from Al today, and it was re posted here by Jag a page back or so...
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: RunningBare on January 15, 2008, 08:26:02 PM
alsetalokins last visit to the steorn forum was 13 hours ago.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jdo300 on January 15, 2008, 08:30:50 PM
@Crashuni1
Here's another Drawing of the Rotor Jason did an excellent job, but i alway work up my own so I can do amendments if needed.

Thanks Jason
Bill

I guess that is yet another way to interpret the 2.5" spacing of the rotor mags, you take it to mean 2.5" to one of the corners of the octagon, not the flat face.
Ok Ken & Group
What's the OD of the Rotor 2.875" or 3.0" ?
If measured other than other than what i show there is only 0.0440" of material left.

Bill

I think there is confusion here, I have seen 2.5" from the corner of the octagon in your drawing (which to me actually looks closer to the photographs), I have seen 2.5" to the center of the rotor magnet (the midle of the channel), and then on steorn someone thinks it should be 2.5" to the inside flat face of the octagon.

The poster that thinks it is 2.5" to the flat face of the octagon, also thinks the radius of the rotor should be 3" rather than 2.875".

When I look at the photos, the magnet channel (which is 0.25") looks about the same thickness as the thickest part of the material left on the outside of the rotor (the crescent shaped pieces), but it would be easy to miss a 1/16th difference in the photos.

It is hard to say, may have to study the photos closely.

Al seems to have disappeared from the steorn forums, so no info from the source right now!

OK, once again for those who missed my post regarding the rotor dimension issue. I have already addressed it here in the following post:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3871.msg70719.html#msg70719

In short, the OD of the rotor should be 2.875 in and the distance from the center of the disk to the inner edge of the octagon is 2.375 in. These dimensions are clearly marked in the blueprints I published.

EDIT: I meant OD of 5.75 inches


God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: MeggerMan on January 15, 2008, 08:40:52 PM
Hi Jason,
Surely you mean the rotor radius is 2.875 inches giving a rotor diameter of 5.75 inches or 146mm?
(I think everyone knew that anyway, just stating the obvious). ;)
Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jdo300 on January 15, 2008, 08:48:22 PM
Hi Jason,
Surely you mean the rotor radius is 2.875 inches giving a rotor diameter of 5.75 inches or 146mm?
(I think everyone knew that anyway, just stating the obvious). ;)
Regards
Rob

Oopps. Sorry, Yeah 5.75 inches. I edited the post!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: FunkyJive on January 15, 2008, 08:53:54 PM
FWIW, In respect of the bearings used for this project...

Don't overlook "Faraday's Paradox", where even a rotating magnet spinning at the same speed as a metal disc, with the disc intersecting the magnetic field, will still yield potential and therefore oppose the change that induces it (Lenz's law).

These constructions certainly don't bear particular resemblance to those demonstrating Faraday's experiment, although the rapid and significant multi-angular distortions in EM fields (particularly around the diametrically-polarised cylindrical magnets) would inevitably have some  impact, albeit to varying degrees. Greater impact would be imposed by greater (metal) bearing width and thickness for example, so one area worthy of review if accurate reproductions persistently and inexplicably fail to sustain rotation   ;)


FunkyJive
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: abassign on January 15, 2008, 09:07:06 PM
@CLaNZeR

hi,
looking at your last tape and comparing it with that of NikolaTelsa, I have noticed a problem of synchronization of the stator with the rotor magnetes.
I have the suspicion that an important part of the debugging is also the correct synchronization to elevated speed.
I think geometry and intensity of the field of the present magnets of the rotor is important to syncronize the rotor with stator.
It excuses the note and we hope that the things are all right.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: b0rg13 on January 15, 2008, 09:27:38 PM
... i got the impression after watching the first video in youtube that when he stoped the two smaller round magnets it sounded like a small electric motor kicked in and made the big rotor speed up.... i watched it many times, got the same impression each time. :-\
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: FunkyJive on January 15, 2008, 09:36:24 PM
Quote
... i got the impression after watching the first video in youtube that when he stoped the two smaller round magnets it sounded like a small electric motor kicked in and made the big rotor speed up.... i watched it many times, got the same impression each time.


Hi b0rg13

Presuming that it was not a faked video, even a pure-magnet motor would doubtless sound or behave like an electrically-powered motor if it were truly developing power and momentum.

Kudos to those trying to prove or dis-prove either way  ;)


All the best,

FunkyJive
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 15, 2008, 09:36:52 PM
.. i get the impression he's a bit of a wiz with the truth (pun intended) ... hehehe
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 15, 2008, 10:00:26 PM
Hi Sean,

Your Stator Magnet Holders are looking very nice!   ;D

The only encouragement I would give, is to keep the top of the Stators to about the bottom of the rotor magnets as we discussed yesterday.  It would probably work above the rotor a hair just as well, but not on the same plane.

Fine tuning will be needed as you are well aware of. 

I wish the machine shop milling the three of ours would hurry!  LOL

Warm regards,
Bruce
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 15, 2008, 10:08:39 PM
hi sean , built a few more of my mk1 stators using 2 separate 4 x5 neos in a wheel. while they all look identical, i have one of the three that does a AGW spin with a tickle. just bear that in mind wen testing and test all stators for performance, some work better than others lol
That's interesting Craigy. One of the things I soon learnt in 4 decades of materials research is that there is no such thing as a uniform material and one always has to check for variability. For example a 1% difference in density between concrete samples can make an 8% difference in strength. I believe one of the main reasons people were not able to replicate P&F's cold fusion results is that different batches of palladium have different properties. P&F got lucky with their batch. It may take quite a bit of fiddling about to reproduce Alan's machine - Anyway, congratulations on getting AGW. That is the first step on the road to Rome.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: sterlinga on January 15, 2008, 10:17:50 PM
posted at the Steorn forum

CommentAuthoroldHorseface CommentTime1 hour ago edited  permalink
I have build a quick and funky new system where I get a short burst of acceleration, then a sustained speed for 10 seconds, then it slows down to stop in 20 seconds.
My stator is the same one from my Lego setup, but my rotor is 12" in diameter with 12 magnets facing outward alternating north-south. (unlike the OCAL system or my last Lego setup)
I think if anyone is getting AGW lock, you got it happening, you just need to reduce friction and tweek your alignment.
As AL said, the distance between rotor and stator is citical and different for every type of system. Anyone building a test jig should make that distance variable.
I am going out to Burbank tomorrow to get more magnets (disc neos) and try some more things.
I have seen energy from permanent magnets! I think I'm going to cry.


Posted at http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications:AuthoroldHorseface (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications:AuthoroldHorseface)

If anyone has contact with this person, could you ask him to post photos, video, contact info?  I'd like to add it to the above page if that's okay.

sterlingda {at} pureenergysystems.com
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: geodan on January 15, 2008, 11:12:44 PM
Can anyone else get to Steorn? is it down? oooo MIB? ;)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: RunningBare on January 15, 2008, 11:13:36 PM
Can anyone else get to Steorn? is it down? oooo MIB? ;)

Their server is offline.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 15, 2008, 11:14:10 PM
Can anyone else get to Steorn? is it down? oooo MIB? ;)
Down for me too (London). I suspect it's overloaded.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: S_o_E on January 15, 2008, 11:21:16 PM
Down in the Emerald Isle, too... (Hi Lads!)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Dirtfarmer on January 15, 2008, 11:21:20 PM
I don't know where else to go!!!

       (I'll try not to go on tangents...   Howdy all!

         Goodwill,
               -Dirtfarmer

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: geodan on January 15, 2008, 11:27:04 PM
I don't know where else to go!!!

       (I'll try not to go on tangents...   Howdy all!

         Goodwill,
               -Dirtfarmer



I for one am going to try to catch up on my day job... :D

Hey Grimer,  who won the last post?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: S_o_E on January 15, 2008, 11:29:55 PM
Feels like we've all popped out of a warp bubble to land balanced on some toadstool in the middle of a swamp...

Funny thing (for me at least) was that they seemed to go down (as near as I can estimate) in the very same minute I attempted to connect - for the first time today... :o
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: S_o_E on January 15, 2008, 11:32:23 PM
OSPMM could do with links... (don't hit me)...
{edit} The holding page is at once magnificent and hilarious...
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: FunkyJive on January 15, 2008, 11:33:03 PM
I've just tried pinging Steorn's listed primary and secondary server addresses and they're both working fine (ave ping response for each packet consistently just above the 100ms ballpark)...

Pinging 205.178.190.40 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 205.178.190.40: bytes=32 time=106ms TTL=235
Reply from 205.178.190.40: bytes=32 time=109ms TTL=235
Reply from 205.178.190.40: bytes=32 time=106ms TTL=235
Reply from 205.178.190.40: bytes=32 time=110ms TTL=235

Ping statistics for 205.178.190.40:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 106ms, Maximum = 110ms, Average = 107ms


Pinging 205.178.189.40 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 205.178.189.40: bytes=32 time=114ms TTL=235
Reply from 205.178.189.40: bytes=32 time=111ms TTL=235
Reply from 205.178.189.40: bytes=32 time=109ms TTL=235
Reply from 205.178.189.40: bytes=32 time=127ms TTL=235

Ping statistics for 205.178.189.40:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 109ms, Maximum = 127ms, Average = 115ms


Incidentally, Steorn's .co.uk domain name (they're listed as the registrant) is now listed as "Registration Required" as it expired 5th January.

Registrar:
Key-Systems GmbH [Tag = KEY-SYSTEMS-DE]
URL: http://www.Key-Systems.net

Relevant dates:
Registered on: 05-Jan-2006
Renewal date: 05-Jan-2008
Last updated: 22-Aug-2007

Registration status:
Renewal required.


I would have thought this URL would have been worth hanging onto - particularly as URL's are almost insignificantly cheap.

Hmmm...  :-\

Funkyjive
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: geodan on January 15, 2008, 11:33:30 PM
Good call on moving your stuff out of your Steorn account OC!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 15, 2008, 11:37:55 PM
will it come back up?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: canam101 on January 15, 2008, 11:39:17 PM
I don't know where else to go!!!

       (I'll try not to go on tangents...   Howdy all!

         Goodwill,
               -Dirtfarmer



fizzx.com
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Dirtfarmer on January 15, 2008, 11:41:28 PM
I don't know where else to go!!!

       (I'll try not to go on tangents...   Howdy all!

         Goodwill,
               -Dirtfarmer



fizzx.com
   Thanks!   Forgot all about Fizzx.
        Goodwill,
               -Dirtfarmer (Matt)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: loreman on January 15, 2008, 11:43:11 PM
I'd just made a post about mythbusters replicating Whipmag-maybe that caused the site to explode :o
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 15, 2008, 11:44:49 PM
I own Orbo.es not sure if it worth re-newing tho..
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: FunkyJive on January 15, 2008, 11:45:13 PM
Quote
will it come back up?

Anyone's guess, though notably Steorn's .com and .co.uk URL's were both pointing to the same server addresses  :-\


FunkyJive
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Craigy on January 15, 2008, 11:49:57 PM
the spdc is down as well
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: RunningBare on January 15, 2008, 11:50:55 PM
There is still construction information here http://www.ospmm.org/whipmag/
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Dirtfarmer on January 15, 2008, 11:50:57 PM
I'd just made a post about mythbusters replicating Whipmag-maybe that caused the site to explode :o
   And I thought it was me suggesting the macro-parallell to quantum effects,  eg:  spin magnetic moment in the stator (ala electron), as well as relative orbital angular momentum,   And that two intersecting arcs of different radii may be just the trick to display the machinery down there...      (Bohr's minimum energy state, quantisation, Fermi etc...)
         Earth,  moon,  Sun, solar system,    nucleus,   electrons...
      Kablooey!    (Hey,  I said I was scaring myself :o
 Goodwill,
        -Dirtfarmer   (Alright,  there's that tangent..) EDIT:  (...so to speak..)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: loreman on January 15, 2008, 11:57:50 PM
I hope there's plenty of copies of the replication stuff around
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Harvey on January 15, 2008, 11:59:59 PM
Just checking in. Not familiar with Fizzx or Tangent. :-[

Got my crappy mock up vid assembled 76mb. Will put up on you-tube in a couple of hours G2G till then.

BBL

Harvey
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: RunningBare on January 16, 2008, 12:03:41 AM
the spdc is down as well

It's curious, the Steorn stuff does go down quite frequently, but its normally the weekend, the guess is obligatory restart after upgrade, but cannot say I've seen it offline midweek before.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jdo300 on January 16, 2008, 12:04:37 AM
I'd just made a post about mythbusters replicating Whipmag-maybe that caused the site to explode :o

Where did you post that?? How do you know they are going to try and replicate it?

- Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: HyTower on January 16, 2008, 12:33:34 AM
Hi All
Try this link http://freeenergytruth.blogspot.com/
thanks
HT
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: loreman on January 16, 2008, 12:39:21 AM
Jason,

I don't. It was just one of my silly, jokey posts. Just after I made it, the site went down.

I hope this is just a technical problem, and not a "commercial" closure of the forum because of Whipmag.

Maybe one of the Irish here could ring Steorn tomorrow your time and ask them?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: oak on January 16, 2008, 12:44:54 AM
As RB said, the Steorn site does go down from time to time.  And whenever it does, there is speculation that maybe this time it's for good.  Then it always comes back up.  It will this time, too.  But it's nearly midnight there, so it might not be back up for several hours.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: JAG on January 16, 2008, 12:50:01 AM
Quote
Ummm, not OU?


Jag had the right idea, the right appreciation of things. He wrote:
 ooooooooooI have seen energy from permanent magnets! I think I'm going to cry.

Grimer,

Just so we are clear...those aren't my words. They are Old Horseface's words. I just copied the post over here. I've still got splinters on my arse from sitting on the fence.

JAG
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 16, 2008, 01:38:41 AM
Quote
Ummm, not OU?


Jag had the right idea, the right appreciation of things. He wrote:
 ooooooooooI have seen energy from permanent magnets! I think I'm going to cry.

Grimer,

Just so we are clear...those aren't my words. They are Old Horseface's words. I just copied the post over here. I've still got splinters on my arse from sitting on the fence.

JAG

They should be making you cry.  :oThat bleedin' 'urts  ;)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: amigo on January 16, 2008, 02:02:27 AM
I'd just made a post about mythbusters replicating Whipmag-maybe that caused the site to explode :o

Don't we all remember what happened last time Mythbusters "replicated" something from the free-energy world (Bedini's Free-energy generator, original design from 1984) they purposely sabotaged the experiment and discredited the inventor.

Sadly masses who watch crap that Mythbusters broadcast believe it to be true and authentic. After all, it's show-TV and it's never about the truth but about popularity...sigh.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: amigo on January 16, 2008, 02:03:20 AM
dupe
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: RunningBare on January 16, 2008, 02:07:13 AM

Don't we all remember what happened last time Mythbusters "replicated" something from the free-energy world (Bedini's Free-energy generator, original design from 1984) they purposely sabotaged the experiment and discredited the inventor.

Sadly masses who watch crap that Mythbusters broadcast believe it to be true and authentic. After all, it's show-TV and it's never about the truth but about popularity...sigh.

Thats fascinating, can you point me to a working Bedini motor?, not had much success with my replication.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 16, 2008, 02:08:46 AM
dupe
The appearance of identical, repeated information in a database. Dupe is short for "duplicate".

And that is precisely what they are doing.  ;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: loreman on January 16, 2008, 02:29:15 AM
"Sadly masses who watch crap that Mythbusters broadcast believe it to be true and authentic."

I watch it occasionally because I find it amusing. I repeat, my comment about mythbusters on the Steorn site was a joke.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: hydrocontrol on January 16, 2008, 02:47:09 AM
Finally got some shop time. I know it is not an exact replication. Not sure an exact replication is even possible if Al does not even know the strength of his magnets which will make a difference. Only have one more stator to make but with just playing with what I have I have formed a couple of ideas of why it may be working. I am not sure how many of you have played with making PMM. My first one years ago was on a 12 inch round wood circle that was 1 1/2 inch thick. I glued a bunch of steel angle iron pieces to a bunch of radio shaft large rectangular ceramic magnets. I was able to get it to spin with another magnet by hand and only moving it about 1/2 inch. I never figured out a way to replace my hand with a mechanical system. I think that is what these round stator magnets do. They pulse the rotor by rotating. BTW a great way to get it up to speed is with an air compressor wand as some of you have done. I also found it spins better one direction (CCW) then the other (CW). Not sure why.. Lots of playing to do before I get more shop time. At least it is a start..
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 16, 2008, 02:48:44 AM
@All,

I see in http://www.ospmm.com/whipmag/ the magnets on the rotor are arranged NS SN NS SN NS SN NS SN.  Was that discussed before, is that the right arrangement for the working motor in the video?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Lakes on January 16, 2008, 02:49:19 AM
I like watching Mythbusters cause of the cool stuff they make, only seen the Bedini clip on Youtube though.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: hydrocontrol on January 16, 2008, 02:50:23 AM
Here is a second picture.. Can I join the replicators club now  ;D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: geodan on January 16, 2008, 02:56:33 AM
nope... ya gotta spin it up, accelerate and maintain speed for 7+ hrs... ;)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: RunningBare on January 16, 2008, 03:00:18 AM
Here is a second picture.. Can I join the replicators club now  ;D

Real nice work hydrcontrol, you joined the first moment you started your replication, I'm really envying all those with the resources to make such neat setups.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ken_nyus on January 16, 2008, 03:03:25 AM
Here is a second picture.. Can I join the replicators club now  ;D

Nice Hydro, I like the slots for the stators.

Is that a Rubbermaid cutting board for raw material?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ken_nyus on January 16, 2008, 03:10:24 AM
@All,

I see in http://www.ospmm.com/whipmag/ the magnets on the rotor are arranged NS SN NS SN NS SN NS SN.  Was that discussed before, is that the right arrangement for the working motor in the video?

That was my understanding.

From what I can see in the many videos (original, lightened, slowed down, even a parody!), that is what it looks like.

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: hydrocontrol on January 16, 2008, 03:18:03 AM
Here is a second picture.. Can I join the replicators club now  ;D

Real nice work hydrcontrol, you joined the first moment you started your replication, I'm really envying all those with the resources to make such neat setups.

Thanks. I bettered my pathetic machining skills by learning how to use the rotary table for the brigeport mill correctly. Still has some flaws. I had to wrap a bit a tape around a couple of rotor magnets to keep them wedged in place. The stators can stand some improvement. The bearings I used are smooth and rated for 56,000 RPM but you can feel the effect of the stator magnets on them. I think I will try to put a few steel washers under the stator magnet to kill the magnetic field to the bearing. Not sure if it will work but is a easy try. I used a Rubbermaid cutting board for the materials. A roller blade bearing for the rotor. Using a air compressor I can get it spinning fast. So fast I am afraid the magnets are going to fly off. I got a Tach on order. I am also looking at a way to computerize tach readings from a couple of points. This is an interesting project and even if it does not work at least I am improving my machining skills a bit. Still wish I had a CNC machine like others here  ;)  Anyway I should have another stator done tomorrow night along with the Aluminum parts.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Rosphere on January 16, 2008, 03:27:20 AM
Don't we all remember what happened last time Mythbusters "replicated" something from the free-energy world (Bedini's Free-energy generator, original design from 1984) they purposely sabotaged the experiment and discredited the inventor.

Thank you.  I was waiting for someone to bring that up again so I could state that:

I once loved Adam and Jamie.  If they ever rushed through some episode and the fans let them know via email then they would often revisit the topic and try it again.  This was the ONLY EPISODE that they asked for NO EMAIL on a topic,... my favorite topic.  Wouldn't you know it, the first time that I was about to write to them about anything and it was deemed VERBOTEN before I could reach my keyboard.

On second thought, it is probably better that they never revisit this topic.  We are dealing with a metastable female force that requires patience and finesse.  She can ignore you your whole life or rip your heart out in one moment.  She cares not that your precious episode goes to air in a week, or even two.  They downloaded some plans off the internet, they rushed them together, nothing worked, and now they never wish to speak of it again.  HA!  I hope they never try again.  They just do not have the time:  "It'll never work.  We'll never make it.  We're doomed."--Glum, Gulliver's Travels, Banana Splits

MYTHBUSTERS: Strike one more item off my short and shrinking list of, "must see tee vee!"  :P
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: cub3 on January 16, 2008, 04:09:11 AM
Hydro

any chance you could post smaller pic's

Ive only got dial up  :-[

Den
Title: OC replication update, LaFonte Group
Post by: Butch on January 16, 2008, 04:45:33 AM
Mark has been told that the bearings for the rotor are to big and that they have to be changed to the 1/2" bearings to get the same result as the video on youtube. We all have our doubts about this, but Mark found a source for free material for the rotor and is making three new ones tonight. Not to worry, Mark said he can make a rotor in around one hour. Mark is one of the most gifted machinists I have ever known and our group is lucky to have him aboard. His contributions to design have been very valuable also. We want to have the motor as close to a perfect copy as possible to the one in the video.
This bearing change will accomplish that.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: hydrocontrol on January 16, 2008, 04:58:46 AM
Hydro

any chance you could post smaller pic's

Ive only got dial up  :-[

Den
Sorry about that.. Changed to 800x600. Should be a bit smaller and faster.
Title: Re: OC replication update, LaFonte Group
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 16, 2008, 05:02:14 AM
(Snip)
 We all have our doubts about this,
(Snip)
We want to have the motor as close to a perfect copy as possible to the one in the video.
This bearing change will accomplish that.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte

I doubt it, if what I saw in the first video is any indication.  You guys might try spinning the stator magnet faster than the rotor, this next time.   ;)

So, we all have our doubts about this, but probably not the same ones you do.   ;)

Good luck to your group,


Bruce
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: hydrocontrol on January 16, 2008, 05:03:28 AM
So what happened to CLaNZeR (Sean). He posted on his site http://www.overunity.org.uk
 that he got the correct magnets and posted a video of it working (?) or almost working and now all the videos on his site are dead and no updates. Hope he is okay..
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: amigo on January 16, 2008, 05:25:13 AM
So what happened to CLaNZeR (Sean). He posted on his site http://www.overunity.org.uk
 that he got the correct magnets and posted a video of it working (?) or almost working and now all the videos on his site are dead and no updates. Hope he is okay..
Maybe we are eating too much of his bandwidth so he had to take them down? It's strange because when you click on a video it just opens a blank page for me, normally a plugin would kick in or an external player...
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Freezer on January 16, 2008, 05:26:26 AM
He posts his videos here.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=overunityorguk

Seems like he's a lancer guy.  ;)  I'm a civic guy myself, but like lancers.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 16, 2008, 05:36:50 AM
R.I.P Steorn
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: cub3 on January 16, 2008, 05:38:15 AM
Thanks hydro,

I should not at this time but for all
a distraction

How does one move 30ton blocks by oneself

http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory/CoralCastle/index.html

His explaniaton of magnetic current.

Magnetic Current
By Edward Leedskalnin

http://www.labyrinthina.com/ed.html

Regards Den
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Harvey on January 16, 2008, 05:54:13 AM
I put the vid up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZglbWM8j0_o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZglbWM8j0_o)

Its a real mess, turned 90 degrees - sound didn't convert right on most of it so I had to narrate some the beginning and end.

I don't see anything special in it that most of you don't already know but you might spot something I missed or discounted.

I've got some strobe shots a few minutes ago but the frame interactions are bad. I'll convert it and stick it up anyway. Some may be able to get a couple good frames out of it.

Any word on the Steorn Forum?

Cheers,

Harvey
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Harvey on January 16, 2008, 06:06:33 AM
So what happened to CLaNZeR (Sean). He posted on his site http://www.overunity.org.uk
 that he got the correct magnets and posted a video of it working (?) or almost working and now all the videos on his site are dead and no updates. Hope he is okay..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc1K6WhsUHg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc1K6WhsUHg)

Now for the Rotor Magnets ;-)

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: blue_energy on January 16, 2008, 06:25:58 AM
I'm not sure that Sony will be happy that you're advertising for them!   :P

You make a couple of very fascinating points, Harvey.  You say that the repulsion from the rotor is palpable when the stator is stationary (and that it always chooses the repulsion face of the stator magnet in that state) yet when the stator is moving - the rotor attracts it.  Is that the case regardless whether the stator is moving gear-wise or anti-gear-wise?

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Olli P Taina on January 16, 2008, 06:51:32 AM
@All,

I see in http://www.ospmm.com/whipmag/ the magnets on the rotor are arranged NS SN NS SN NS SN NS SN.  Was that discussed before, is that the right arrangement for the working motor in the video?

Maybe that is just the trick that makes this thing work!
That arrangement creates 4 virtual N poles and 4 virtual S poles on the rotor and the interaction occurs always between three magnets - two on the rotor and one on the stator. This also causes the 4:1 ratio for the stator and the rotor.
Some theories suggest that magnetism has three aspects and maybe a practical working setup needs to have interaction of three magnets:
http://www.athenapolis.com/NN_MotorintheMagnet.htm and http://www.athenapolis.com/NN_FindingtheMotor.htm
http://www.fdp.nu/free_energy.asp?book=90
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: romantechnologies on January 16, 2008, 07:12:04 AM
Hello
How did you come by this?

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: geodan on January 16, 2008, 07:40:20 AM
Is that Desertphile ??  :D
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Harvey on January 16, 2008, 07:41:55 AM
I'm not sure that Sony will be happy that you're advertising for them!   :P

You make a couple of very fascinating points, Harvey.  You say that the repulsion from the rotor is palpable when the stator is stationary (and that it always chooses the repulsion face of the stator magnet in that state) yet when the stator is moving - the rotor attracts it.  Is that the case regardless whether the stator is moving gear-wise or anti-gear-wise?



Did I say Sony? Oh No :o its a Sanyo :P

Yes, the attraction is there during both GW & AGW sync. Drat !!!  I was going to purchase a spring scale today when I was out and forgot...Don't get old, it's not worth the 10% discount at your favorite restaurant.

I guess I can just fabricate one. I wan't to see the difference, I think the AGW has less pull than the GW sync but I need something better than fingers to gauge it.

I've noticed the AGW has a better chance of sync'ing if its deeper in the field, but once it starts it needs to be pulled away some for smoother operation. GW sync has a wide range of area that it will operate in. I tried to keep the two fields centered in the Y axis.

My test pieces have huge losses built in. Its encouraging to see that some of the effects Al has experienced can be duplicated even with such a varied approach as I have used.

I'll be back after the Strobe uploads.

Cheers,

Harvey
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 16, 2008, 09:18:43 AM

OC,

Do you expect Alsetalokin will come here now that the Steorn forum is apparently defunct ?

Or is Al permanently AWOL ?

Cheers,

Dean
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Harvey on January 16, 2008, 10:09:39 AM
The stroboscopic shots are disappointing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-McMAqt04Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-McMAqt04Q)

I went through 50MB of frames and picked out the ones clear enough to ID the parts involved.

This was a GW 'sync' and as the strobes show, it was far from sync'd.  There is obviously a lot of shear and possibly even some of those vortices Faraday & OC have envisioned.

Tomorrow I'll run some dual trace tests and confirm what I see here. Also, I'm going to try out my Camcorder, I'm pretty sure it has a 25K FPS setting but I will have to wait a few days to get it uploaded as the card for that is not installed atm.

Strobe Test: :-\

Cheers,

Harvey
 8)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: sveinutne on January 16, 2008, 10:11:56 AM
Quote
I'll be back after the Strobe uploads.

Cheers,

Harvey

That will be really interesting, because there is a lot of wonder how the magnet on the stator is oriented in the AGW lock on the closest pas of the rotor magnet.
I think they are N to N and S to S, so the magnets are weaken at that point.
Svein
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ebswift on January 16, 2008, 10:54:17 AM
Steorn's online again.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 16, 2008, 11:35:49 AM
I thought the following post from the fizzx.com forum might be of interest to overunity forum members who would like to know more about the builder of the OCAL device.

It is taken from a thread discussing the existence or otherwise of a Steorn Jury. As you can see it was written just before the abortive Steorn demonstration at the Kinetica Museum, London.

==============================================================
http://fizzx.com/viewtopic.php?p=1564&highlight=#1564

alsetalokin -  Mon Jul 02 -  2007 - 3:31 pm     

==============================================================
 
Let's see--a number of points to be addressed.
The person to whom I referred was contracted and funded by a wealthy private individual to set up and administer a laboratory to subsidize, examine and hopefully confirm claims and research proposals in the area loosely termed "free energy", alternative propulsion, and anti-gravity. During the two or three years that the funding lasted, I worked closely in conjunction with this person. We examined quite a few claims and devices in the areas listed, funded several inventors, and paid for visits from several other internationally known inventors of these kinds of devices. Unfortunately and quite disappointingly, none of the projects we examined or funded produced positive results. It is important to note here that we were NOT set up to debunk the claims; on the contrary we were trying hard to get to something real and workable. Unfortunately, since we were/are scientists first and foremost, we had to apply the scientific method in an unbiased manner, and so we were able to identify fraud, prevarication, and error many times, but never any workable devices.
I have mentioned the jury member before, in an old post somewhere, so this info isn't new here, it is just an expansion in answer to the original question at the head of this thread.
It isn't pretentious garbage; I haven't come across anyone with anything like the credentials of the person referred to in this area, with one exception: my most recent employer, who also must remain nameless. You of course can believe whatever you will, but I have been fortunate enough to have been actually making my living working in the "free energy" field for over 7 years now, and as long as the checks keep clearing, I can't agree with the "pretentious garbage" characterization.
Nor, of course, am I Sean's stooge. From the experience I have accumulated, my position is clear: Steorn must almost certainly be wrong about their claim, for whatever reason, be it fraud, error, or some unfathomable third type of reason.
And, actually, it can be a bit complicated to debunk some types of free-energy devices. Otherwise we wouldn't be seeing so darn many of them on Youtube! Since many of the devices and systems (like certain "cold-fusion" cells, for example) produce small amounts of apparent excess energy, in rather unusual and hard-to-duplicate conditions, real tests of some of these devices may require fabrication and calibration of new types of equipment, expensive and extensive series of control experimentation, travel expenses for the principal researchers involved, and etc. I have detailed some examples of what I mean in other posts, for example the story of excess kinetic energy that took over 10 years to debunk finally.
exco is right that a PMM would probably be easy to debunk; unfortunately I have never been presented with one (although Minato did promise to bring one to our lab, he "forgot" it in Japan and we didn't get to see it). Most of the real labs working in this area (yes, there are several) never get to see anything quite so blatant--because, as exco says, they don't actually work.
Far more common are the devices that are claimed to produce slight increments in energy, slight decrements in weight or mass, slight anomalous thrusts, etc. and these claims are harder to deal with fairly.
==============================================================

It is ironic, but entirely understandable, that Alan should be the person to discover the phenomena embodied in the OCAL device.

 
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 16, 2008, 12:43:12 PM
So what happened to CLaNZeR (Sean). He posted on his site http://www.overunity.org.uk
 that he got the correct magnets and posted a video of it working (?) or almost working and now all the videos on his site are dead and no updates. Hope he is okay..

I did an update yesterday a couple of threads back and also updated in my forums at http://www.overunity.org.uk
After spending 12 hours in the workshop I needed some sleep hehe

The Videos on the site are down for a bit as trying to keep the bandwidth at a managable level. They are on YouTube to try take the bandwidth away a bit LOL!

Back too it this end with new Rotor I cut yesterday.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: CLaNZeR on January 16, 2008, 12:45:15 PM
Finally got some shop time. I know it is not an exact replication. Not sure an exact replication is even possible if Al does not even know the strength of his magnets which will make a difference. Only have one more stator to make but with just playing with what I have I have formed a couple of ideas of why it may be working. I am not sure how many of you have played with making PMM. My first one years ago was on a 12 inch round wood circle that was 1 1/2 inch thick. I glued a bunch of steel angle iron pieces to a bunch of radio shaft large rectangular ceramic magnets. I was able to get it to spin with another magnet by hand and only moving it about 1/2 inch. I never figured out a way to replace my hand with a mechanical system. I think that is what these round stator magnets do. They pulse the rotor by rotating. BTW a great way to get it up to speed is with an air compressor wand as some of you have done. I also found it spins better one direction (CCW) then the other (CW). Not sure why.. Lots of playing to do before I get more shop time. At least it is a start..

Good work mate, Your Rig is looking really nice.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: robbie47 on January 16, 2008, 02:13:41 PM
Has anyone seen any update info from Alsetalokin on the Steorn forum lately?
It looks like he left the scene.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 16, 2008, 02:24:51 PM
Has anyone seen any update info from Alsetalokin on the Steorn forum lately?
It looks like he left the scene.

Considering that there has been no "Steorn forum" until a short time ago, and the fact that the man sleeps and works a full time job, you may not hear from him until tonight or so.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Prophmaji on January 16, 2008, 03:17:40 PM
hi sean , built a few more of my mk1 stators using 2 separate 4 x5 neos in a wheel. while they all look identical, i have one of the three that does a AGW spin with a tickle. just bear that in mind wen testing and test all stators for performance, some work better than others lol
That's interesting Craigy. One of the things I soon learnt in 4 decades of materials research is that there is no such thing as a uniform material and one always has to check for variability. For example a 1% difference in density between concrete samples can make an 8% difference in strength. I believe one of the main reasons people were not able to replicate P&F's cold fusion results is that different batches of palladium have different properties. P&F got lucky with their batch. It may take quite a bit of fiddling about to reproduce Alan's machine - Anyway, congratulations on getting AGW. That is the first step on the road to Rome.

If you look at the resistive characteristics of ionic fluids, ie, fluid glass, the resistance decreases with higher frequencies (stepping away from DC current into AC current).

to enable OU with Cold fusion, you have to go to the sub-harmonic frequencies (of the main molecular frequencies) that also correlate to the DC-AC resistance curved trace of fluid palladium. Watch for it's ionic polarity as well,  with respects to accurizing the shape of the AC component, as a secondary point for fine tuning. (Bedini, other electrical equivalents, etc) This is due to the fact that the atomic structure itself, is a stabilized gyroscopic vortex in-vortex out..based on intersecting 2-d stress fields that are in oscillation. The 3-d universe is a vectoral resultant of these intersecting fields. Obviously the fields stabilize the atomic structure.

 If you head for a DC field/current with the 'loosening/resonant' effect AC field of the correct frequency superimposed upon it, you have your desired overunity.

Basically, it's almost as straightforward as hooking up a sine generator to a DC system and having a slow of sweep of AC running  on top of your DC..and then noting the anomalous points..and then working on those.

Remember, it's an electric universe, so potential counts for more than current, when it comes to temporal aspects and thus localized molecular polarization. You are enacting resonant polarization..into conduction, or egress of energy.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Grimer on January 16, 2008, 03:42:46 PM
It would be very informative to have a video showing the rotor RPM for a stretch  before and after reversal from GW to AGW takes place. If there is such a video, apart form Alan Setalokin's, could someone give me the link, please.  :-*
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: hydrocontrol on January 16, 2008, 04:01:49 PM

Good work mate, Your Rig is looking really nice.

Cheers
Sean.

Not near as nice as your CNC stuff. Yours I consider an exact replication. Mine is a gallant attempt.  ::) All I have access to is a 40 year old Bridgeport mill and a 40 year old vacuum tube controlled Monarch Lathe. Lots of hand cranking time..  ::)  On top of that my budget only allows so much in 'fun' materials like special magnets.. Still I plod along.  :D  Your videos show a real effect with the syncing so I am getting a better feel that Al's work may be on the up and up and not a hoax. It is apparent that this setup is going to need a lot of 'fine' tuning. Not an easy throw it together and it works right away job. I suspect it will be a 'throw it together' job after we figure out that it really needs mechanical gear syncing which would sync it all the time instead of hit and miss hand/air spin syncing. Anyways that is down the road.

 If you get bored I have another idea for a PPM that would be super easy to make with your CNC machine and I think you have all the parts.

Later, TomG
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Prophmaji on January 16, 2008, 04:03:30 PM
It would be very informative to have a video showing the rotor RPM for a stretch  before and after reversal from GW to AGW takes place. If there is such a video, apart form Alan Setalokin's, could someone give me the link, please.  :-*
Who is she that cometh forth as the morning rising  -  Fair as the moon. Bright as the sun  -  Terrible as an army set in battle array.

Truth is not subject to opinion: otherwise, there would be no such thing as "science", or "fact", or "objectivity".


It's always good to remember that in truth, there is no such thing as a fact, none whatsoever. All is theory. If one expects that 'man' created 'laws' are going to lead to a more complete understanding of the universe, they've got another thing coming. That point alone, is the unadulterated history of science itself. Time and time again, the only fact that has held, is that all is theory and no such thing as a fact exists. If one continually moves upon the idea of facts being everywhere... they merely end up at the same brick wall as everyone else. One can use science as a map, but ultimately, that's all it is. We can only suspect that over 90% of the map is blank, for example. Objectivity is a fool's game, with the 'human being' in the chain. It'll never happen, and has been shown to never have happened, in the long run. The scientist has been shown to be one of the worst when it comes to understanding the basics of the idea of the injection of the scientist himself within the context of the experiment at hand. Ie, great at linear thinking, extremely poor at the art of lateral thinking and self analysis, or basic psychology (class 101--or further). This constitutes a loss of the other 50% of the points that balance out reality.

When the basic analysis of the oscillating 2-d stress fields in interaction creating the dual vortex that is an atomic structure in flux-balance..when that is complete as a mental exercise..it becomes clear that objectivity is woefully inadequate as a descriptor and point within science. :) :)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: robbie47 on January 16, 2008, 04:43:30 PM
Since Alsetalokin mentioned that exact distance of the stator magnet to the rotor is quite important, I wonder how important slight differences between the individual rotor magnets strenghts are.
But how to determine the differences in the strength between the used rotor magnets?

[edit] maybe attached method could be used. Assuming that the spread in weight is neglectable.
Not sure whether the resolution will be sufficient though.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: blue_energy on January 16, 2008, 07:24:36 PM
Quote
Since Alsetalokin mentioned that exact distance of the stator magnet to the rotor is quite important, I wonder how important slight differences between the individual rotor magnets strenghts are.
But how to determine the differences in the strength between the used rotor magnets?

And even more to the point: differences between the rated strengths and sizes of the magnets?  Most of the rigs I've read about seem to be using N42 magnets for both stators and rotor whereas, reportedly, Al used N35 magnets for his rotor mags.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jdo300 on January 16, 2008, 08:19:48 PM
Quote
Since Alsetalokin mentioned that exact distance of the stator magnet to the rotor is quite important, I wonder how important slight differences between the individual rotor magnets strenghts are.
But how to determine the differences in the strength between the used rotor magnets?

And even more to the point: differences between the rated strengths and sizes of the magnets?  Most of the rigs I've read about seem to be using N42 magnets for both stators and rotor whereas, reportedly, Al used N35 magnets for his rotor mags.


That is true. However, the difference in strength can be compensated for by adjusting the distance between the stator and rotor. In my setup, I will simply adjust the height of the rotor on the axle to fine tune the distance.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: robbie47 on January 16, 2008, 08:33:36 PM
That is true. However, the difference in strength can be compensated for by adjusting the distance between the stator and rotor. In my setup, I will simply adjust the height of the rotor on the axle to fine tune the distance.

This will only help to compensate for the avarange rotor magnet strength, but not if the 8 rotor magnets have a significant spread in strength.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: FunkyJive on January 16, 2008, 08:36:04 PM
Prophmaji wrote:

Quote
If you head for a DC field/current with the 'loosening/resonant' effect AC field of the correct frequency superimposed upon it, you have your desired overunity.


I personally believe that there could be substance in this - i.e. finding the right "resonance". Such an example would be where if one were attempting to shatter a glass (overcoming the molecular bond that holds it all together), then only the precise pitch or near-harmonic will create sympathetic resonance in the glass, with the minimum of SPL to do so. Not a perfect analogy however, though an appreciably simple one.

The Bedini principle operates on what he terms the "sling-shot" effect with respect to molecules forming the electrolyte of a battery, citing a nominal frequency range of something between 1MHz and 6MHz for a lead-acid battery. At resonance he claims that the battery will effectively charge itself.

Self-charging of a battery would suggest a negative resistance in the battery - where a negative resistor is central to the observations claimed with the Bearden MEG (Motionless Electromagnetic Generator).

And then the Adam's Motor, based upon the back-EMF generated by a coil, where although current reduces and voltage increases (theoretically yielding the same envelope power with a voltage and current trade-off), a fast transient spike would represent the fast edge of a high-frequency waveform.

Perhaps the Adams motor would then suggest similarity with the principles of the Gaussian Gun, where a slow approaching magnet speeds up under EM influence and yielding considerable propulsion to the foremost ball bearing of equivalent material, weight, and size.

Finally, I'll add the known effect of 27GHz where water molecules will separate "easily" into their hydrogen and oxygen constituents - though doesn't really fall within the scope of the home experimenter   :)


The permanent magnet motor here may not appear to be similar to the above inventions where electronic switching is taking place, but transcending just beyond a point of maximum repulsion between the cylindrical and bar magnets would result in recovery of the field shape considerably faster than the approaching state of repulsion.

Unless magnetic flux (i.e. not just its effects) is comprehensively understood, there appears to be a common theme in the various inventions and their claims, and the ever-present possibility of something we have yet to discover   ;)


FunkyJive
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: vipond50 on January 16, 2008, 09:07:06 PM
Quote
Since Alsetalokin mentioned that exact distance of the stator magnet to the rotor is quite important, I wonder how important slight differences between the individual rotor magnets strenghts are.
But how to determine the differences in the strength between the used rotor magnets?

And even more to the point: differences between the rated strengths and sizes of the magnets?  Most of the rigs I've read about seem to be using N42 magnets for both stators and rotor whereas, reportedly, Al used N35 magnets for his rotor mags.


blue_energy
Just for the record that was an assumption on Al's part. He was guessing that was the gauss value. It funny being in an R&D lab the magnets could have not been compared to an known mag spec or metered to help tie down the gauss value.
Don't take this as a poke toward Al, he really did a good job reporting, but i feel that he was getting pressured by his boss or somebody relating to this discovery.

Regards
Bill
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ken_nyus on January 16, 2008, 09:19:40 PM
This will only help to compensate for the avarange rotor magnet strength, but not if the 8 rotor magnets have a significant spread in strength.

Anyone have a good idea for "home" testing of a set of magnets, to make it easy to select a group of magnets that have similar strength?

Something like the method proposed by robbie47 above?

Using robbie47's method I guess you could pick one magnet to always be the bottom magnet, and then pop the rest of your magnets in and check the repulsion distance and see if there is any significant difference? (significant would have to be defined here).

Now how to do this for the ring magnets???

Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: vipond50 on January 16, 2008, 09:25:14 PM
Quote
Since Alsetalokin mentioned that exact distance of the stator magnet to the rotor is quite important, I wonder how important slight differences between the individual rotor magnets strenghts are.
But how to determine the differences in the strength between the used rotor magnets?

And even more to the point: differences between the rated strengths and sizes of the magnets?  Most of the rigs I've read about seem to be using N42 magnets for both stators and rotor whereas, reportedly, Al used N35 magnets for his rotor mags.


blue_energy
Just for the record that was an assumption on Al's part. He was guessing that was the gauss value. It funny being in an R&D lab the magnets could have not been compared to an known mag spec or metered to help tie down the gauss value.
Don't take this as a poke toward Al, he really did a good job reporting, but i feel that he was getting pressured by his boss or somebody relating to this discovery.

Regards
Bill

This is off the Steorn Forum by OC

"Comments re Al's prototype:
1) stator magnets are N42s
2) rotor magnets are unknown but less powerful than N42s according to Al, guess is N35

Hope this helps
Bill
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Jdo300 on January 16, 2008, 09:27:18 PM
You know, to be honest, I wouldn't worry all that much about the minute difference between the rotor magnets' strength. As long as you bought them all from the same place in one batch, chances are that they should all be pretty much the same field strength. Most NdFeB magnets are sintered and magnetized in large batches which means that they should all have equal field strength. The only acception to this would be if you stressed one of the magnets after recieving it.

You're more likely to have larger tolerance errors in the machining of the rotor and stators than in the field strength of the mags. I'd concentrate more on the tuning between the rotor and stator magnets.

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: blue_energy on January 16, 2008, 09:36:24 PM
Quote
blue_energy
Just for the record that was an assumption on Al's part. He was guessing that was the gauss value. It funny being in an R&D lab the magnets could have not been compared to an known mag spec or metered to help tie down the gauss value.
Don't take this as a poke toward Al, he really did a good job reporting, but i feel that he was getting pressured by his boss or somebody relating to this discovery.

Regards
Bill

Hi Bill,

Ah... I didn't realize that.  Then, we still don't know a critical piece of data relating to replication.  In Clanzer's design, the stator assembly can be backed off in order to reduce the effect of the magnetic fields upon each other (which seemed smart the first time I saw it, but just gets smarter all the time - that Clanzer is a practical guy!).  But, in other designs the distance is set.  I'm not an expert on magnetics (actually - faaar from it) but I suspect that raising the stators is not the same thing as backing them off.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: vipond50 on January 16, 2008, 09:39:15 PM
You know, to be honest, I wouldn't worry all that much about the minute difference between the rotor magnets' strength. As long as you bought them all from the same place in one batch, chances are that they should all be pretty much the same field strength. Most NdFeB magnets are sintered and magnetized in large batches which means that they should all have equal field strength. The only acception to this would be if you stressed one of the magnets after recieving it.

You're more likely to have larger tolerance errors in the machining of the rotor and stators than in the field strength of the mags. I'd concentrate more on the tuning between the rotor and stator magnets.

God Bless,
Jason O

Hello Jason
Yes I concur, but getting certified magnets in the so called spec and the cost, as u know would increase significantly. As far as getting the magnets from the same batch when ordered who really knows?
I also agree that the concept should be adjustable from as many facet as possible, then if and when the device is operating, measurement (data) can be obtained for future replication.

Regards
Bill

 
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: ken_nyus on January 16, 2008, 09:43:52 PM
And remember that Al did mention that 1 mm too close or too far and the effect was not present.

I believe he said that at a 4mm distance between rotor and stator, he felt air effects were creating problems.

At 6mm I believe he said it was too far for the effect, but 5mm worked for him.

(And as has been mentioned, out of a batch of 13 stators, a few(2?) worked easily, a few(2?) he could not get to work, and the rest were in the middle)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: lumen on January 16, 2008, 10:19:11 PM
I'm new at this so is this a good place to post a new video?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 16, 2008, 10:20:02 PM
Quote
Since Alsetalokin mentioned that exact distance of the stator magnet to the rotor is quite important, I wonder how important slight differences between the individual rotor magnets strenghts are.
But how to determine the differences in the strength between the used rotor magnets?

And even more to the point: differences between the rated strengths and sizes of the magnets?  Most of the rigs I've read about seem to be using N42 magnets for both stators and rotor whereas, reportedly, Al used N35 magnets for his rotor mags.


You know, as cheap as the magnets are, it might not hurt to have an additional set of N35's to test with.  If someone could source it here in the U.S. 

No reason I can see, to take a chance of missing it.  We try with the N42's and if after tuning, testing, etc, we can not replicate, we try the N35's.  Just my thought for the day.   ;)

This is so important, we can not leave any stone unturned.  IMHO

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: robbie47 on January 16, 2008, 10:20:38 PM
I'm new at this so is this a good place to post a new video?


Sure, we're all curious.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: lumen on January 16, 2008, 10:27:53 PM
I think the video may be too big (140meg), it reset my connection.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 16, 2008, 10:29:48 PM
@All,

I want to report that the initial experiments are very promising. After the initial spin a definite acceleration is observed which so far still cannot be sustained as long as @alsetalonkin's but the effect is definitely there. I will restrain at this point from posting a video or quantitative results which I will present to you later.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Dyamios on January 16, 2008, 10:35:52 PM
I think the video may be too big (140meg), it reset my connection.

You might want to try uploading it to google video or youtube; both services will automatically recompress the videos.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: geodan on January 16, 2008, 10:50:55 PM
@All,

I want to report that the initial experiments are very promising. After the initial spin a definite acceleration is observed which so far still cannot be sustained as long as @alsetalonkin's but the effect is definitely there. I will restrain at this point from posting a video or quantitative results which I will present to you later.

How about just a peek??
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Omnibus on January 16, 2008, 10:54:30 PM
@geodan,

Wanna work a bit first before posting results.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: m0thman on January 16, 2008, 10:57:08 PM
@geodan,

Wanna work a bit first before posting results.

I think we're just a bit hungry to see some success here!  I know I'd be giving this a go if I had the cash, tools and a workshop.  Being self employed I have plenty of time but no money :-(
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: geodan on January 16, 2008, 11:00:36 PM
@geodan,

Wanna work a bit first before posting results.



I can certainly understand that, we'll be here when you're ready.

oh and ahh..

WOOOHOOOO! Congratulations!!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: LarryC on January 16, 2008, 11:01:42 PM
@m0thman,

Same situation here, this is more stressful than watching LSU football this season.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: jcims on January 16, 2008, 11:06:47 PM
@m0thman,

Same situation here, this is more stressful than watching LSU football this season.
Try being a buckeye fan sometime...lol
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: MeggerMan on January 16, 2008, 11:17:35 PM
Hi Bill,
I sort of recognise your handle from the Joe Cell days, did you have a running Joe Cell in your car at some stage?

Hi Jason,
Very sorry, I have to disagree about placing a stronger magnet further away.  If the attack angle between the rotor and stator are critical then it may be that N35 are just right and that N42 or above are just too powerful.
 http://www.athenapolis.com/NN_MotorintheMagnet.htm
 http://www.athenapolis.com/NN_FindingtheMotor.htm

According to the tests that Nick Nelson has done: "each pole of a magnet consists of 3 or 4 separate and distinct magnetic spin zones,depending on the pole".
So if the motor is reliant on these spin zones then getting the magnet of the correct strength and dimension may turn out to be critical.
I am even wondering if the stator would benefit from a slanted angle to the rotor (45 deg. in both planes).
I am keen to try out his ring magnet idea to see if will rotate by hand then try and make up a simple spindle to allow it to rotate on its own.
If this idea turns out to hold water then it certainly opens up a whole raft of possibilities for the WhipMag and the TPU.
The science of magnetic spin zones, sounds catchy.   :)

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: sterlinga on January 16, 2008, 11:41:22 PM
Finally got some shop time. I know it is not an exact replication. [...]. I also found it spins better one direction (CCW) then the other (CW). Not sure why.. Lots of playing to do before I get more shop time. At least it is a start..

I posted a feature page on this:
Hydrocontro's Replication of the MPMM magnet motor (http://"http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications:hydrocontro") - User "hydrocontro" proposes that this counter-rotating stator design accomplishes what he observed in another magnet motor design he built which only worked if the stator were held by hand.  He also observes that his MPMM replica "spins better one direction (CCW) then the other (CW)".
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications:hydrocontro (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications:hydrocontro)

It would be nice if we had more info
- how fast did it run?
- how long?
- did it accellerate
- video

Thanks

Sterling
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Rosphere on January 17, 2008, 12:29:27 AM
Quote
Since Alsetalokin mentioned that exact distance of the stator magnet to the rotor is quite important, I wonder how important slight differences between the individual rotor magnets strenghts are.
But how to determine the differences in the strength between the used rotor magnets?
...
...

Well, if you have more magnets on hand than the number that you plan to use and you want to select a smaller group with the least amount of difference between them, then I suggest using a compass in a manner similar to the way that I used one below.
Quote
These are 1/2" 'Home Depot' disc magnets.  The compass would normally point vertical, towards the top of the images.  The North face of all magnets point towards the compass.

One lone magnet at the bottom, (not pictured,) will balance the Earths field at about 4_25/32", center-to-center.  When the compass points East, or West, all the North fields are in balance, (remembering the Earths constant 1T from the top.)

As expected, the strength doubles with ever smaller increments moving towards the magnet.  At 4T I had a hard time preventing the influence of the compass needle from rotating the magnet.

All magnets are freely resting on the surface.  The black paper-tape is there just to keep them from rolling away before I could snap a photo.
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1872.0;attach=9436;image)
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1872.msg33963.html#msg33963 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1872.msg33963.html#msg33963)

There is no need to go to all that trouble.  All you need to do is slowly approach the compass directly from the South with the North attracting side of the magnet until the compass starts to spin towards the magnet.  Back it off even slower until the compass needle is 90 degrees, (pointing East or West,) and mark the position of the magnet.  Repeat for all magnets and select the number that you need that have the least amount of deviation from each other.  Good luck.

Anyone trying this suggested method, please let me know if it is useful, or not.  Thank you.

(NOTE: If you are extremely anal retentive, then you can check both sides of each magnet by also approaching the compass directly from the North with the South attracting side of the magnet.  I wonder if this will always turn out to be redundant.)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: sterlinga on January 17, 2008, 12:38:28 AM
@All,

I want to report that the initial experiments are very promising. After the initial spin a definite acceleration is observed which so far still cannot be sustained as long as @alsetalonkin's but the effect is definitely there. I will restrain at this point from posting a video or quantitative results which I will present to you later.

Posted a feature page here:
Replications (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications) > Omnibus' Replication of the MPMM (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications:omnibus) - "After the initial spin, a definite acceleration is observed, which so far still cannot be sustained as long as alsetalonkin's but the effect is definitely there." (Jan. 16, 2008)
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications:omnibus (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications:omnibus)


Photo, video, additional info would be nice, so I could feature this in my news.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: skymovingcloud on January 17, 2008, 12:50:54 AM
@All,

I want to report that the initial experiments are very promising. After the initial spin a definite acceleration is observed which so far still cannot be sustained as long as @alsetalonkin's but the effect is definitely there. I will restrain at this point from posting a video or quantitative results which I will present to you later.

Posted a feature page here:
Replications (http://"http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications") > Omnibus' Replication of the MPMM (http://"http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications:omnibus") - "After the initial spin, a definite acceleration is observed, which so far still cannot be sustained as long as alsetalonkin's but the effect is definitely there." (Jan. 16, 2008)
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications:omnibus (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications:omnibus)


Photo, video, additional info would be nice, so I could feature this in my news.

@Sterling,
the link is malformed
http://"http//peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications:omnibus%22

 :)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Yadaraf on January 17, 2008, 12:59:44 AM
Hello all here is my long awaited quote for parts as spec'd in the drawings for the whipmag replication...

>>Hi Jason.

>>We are quoting your parts, 10 assys for $83.75 each.

>>Thank you
>>Terri @ C&D

They are a little more expensive that I originally thought...

In the interest of getting something out of this....

If I get 9 orders... I can get them to you for $94 each plus shipping...
this will get me one for myself and One for each of the 9 lucky folks that want to pay $94 US for them.

In the unlikely event 9 of you are still interested, I have paypal, live in NY, and will take interest as it comes via PM so as to not clutter this thread with this...
I truly thought I could get these done cheaper, it is what it is...

I do know that the quality of the parts from this machine shop is superior, although not sure for a hundred bucks, you will still need to have bearings, magnets, and shafts.

Personally I will probably wait until, clanzer replicates, then build a giant one based on that.
Thanks
UZ

@Unzapped

I am interested in purchasing an assembly.  Any news?

Yada
..
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: m0thman on January 17, 2008, 01:03:19 AM
Can anyone imagine this taking place 20 yrs ago (I know.. most of you aren't much older!) before mainstream Internet access and such a perfect medium for sharing information?
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: lumen on January 17, 2008, 01:15:32 AM
New video on YouTube. Possible explanation of the acceleration on the unit built by Al.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: lumen on January 17, 2008, 01:20:46 AM
Check it out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tknwdltnB6s
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: RunningBare on January 17, 2008, 01:20:58 AM
.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: RunningBare on January 17, 2008, 01:30:20 AM
Check it out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tknwdltnB6s

Thank you luman0, you appeared to have proved my point about the stator accelerating and decelerating over one cycle.
It was only a theory I had, so thanks very much for this.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: hydrocontrol on January 17, 2008, 01:47:36 AM
Finally got some shop time. I know it is not an exact replication. [...]. I also found it spins better one direction (CCW) then the other (CW). Not sure why.. Lots of playing to do before I get more shop time. At least it is a start..

I posted a feature page on this:
Hydrocontro's Replication of the MPMM magnet motor (http://"http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications:hydrocontro") - User "hydrocontro" proposes that this counter-rotating stator design accomplishes what he observed in another magnet motor design he built which only worked if the stator were held by hand.  He also observes that his MPMM replica "spins better one direction (CCW) then the other (CW)".
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications:hydrocontro (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Replications:hydrocontro)

It would be nice if we had more info
- how fast did it run?
- how long?
- did it accelerate
- video

Thanks

Sterling

Well Thanks Sterling... No sure for what. Not going for any recognition effect. Just having a bit of machining fun. Certainly better than what is on TV. A bit jumping the gun there on a write up... I think you are reading more into my posting then intended or deserved. My old wooden magnet wheel I built about 7 years ago. Nothing special. It ran about 100 rpm.. guessing at that as I did not have a tachometer. Used Radio Shack ceramic magnets that cost a buck apiece. Those ones are pretty strong. Had around 25 or so bolted to the top of the wooden wheel. Looked like Stonehenge on top of a wood disk.  :D It ran as long as I pumped it by hand with a 4 Radio Shack magnets stacked up. It did not accelerate. Well it did if I pumped it faster. Gets kind of tiring pretty fast.  No video as I did not have a video camera back then. I may have a picture somewhere. Like I said . Nothing special. No precision workmanship. It is what you do with a 2x14 about 5 foot long, a pencil compass, a saber saw. a couple of Ace Hardware flanged bearings, a big bolt to go through the bearings, twenty 1 inch angle iron, a bunch of glue and a box of wood screw. Basically something to learn from.

My current replication.. Well I was playing around with the air gun driving the main rotor and I guess (no tach yet. on order) it was going around 1500 RPM. It was really whining. So fast that two of the magnets are now 'lost in the shop'. WARNING.. DANGER Will Robinson  ;)  this setup can make serious and harmful projectiles. There is a big dent in one wall where a magnet hit first. After that I heard it bounce around. I suppose it is stuck to some machine here. As your mother told you.. You can put an eye out with that thing. Once again I was driving it with an AIR GUN to see how fast it would go and how balance it was. It was doing really good. Hindsight.. a little stupid.. okay.. a big stupid. Luckly I ordered 10 so I still have a couple replacements.  :P  No acceleration.. No video of my stupidity. I'll get there.. patients please..

HydroControl.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 17, 2008, 01:53:41 AM
@All,

I want to report that the initial experiments are very promising. After the initial spin a definite acceleration is observed which so far still cannot be sustained as long as @alsetalonkin's but the effect is definitely there. I will restrain at this point from posting a video or quantitative results which I will present to you later.

@Omnibus
Take your time Omnibus.  Very encouraging news, indeed.

@ All
We finally heard back from our CA machine shop and Jason's, Hank's and mine is guarenteed to be completed Monday and in to mail to us.  So I will wait patiently (Not! LOL) and play this weekend.  I am going to make a cheap and dirty one until mine arrives.  I need something to do, and have my magnets and bearings.  Besides, I want to loosen the bearings a bit.  I am not going to post any video, unless I see something interesting.  The good news, is that the one coming is to exact spec's and materials.  I just need to find some N35's.  I, like Rob, am worried about this.

If anyone has a link to some, of our spec'd size, please post for all of us replicators.  Thank you.



Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: Lakes on January 17, 2008, 02:01:35 AM
Check it out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tknwdltnB6s
Very interesting video, thanks lumen.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: lumen on January 17, 2008, 02:06:45 AM
I believe if this unit can run as shown in the video by Al, then a possible reason is the increased bearing drag at the point when the magnetic flux is the highest. This would be when the rotor magnets are just passing the stator.
The stator ring magnets are very close to the bearings and under increased flux, from the rotor magnets,would turn harder. The video was an attempt to show the possible theory.

It's only a theory.



 
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: DA on January 17, 2008, 02:21:07 AM
@lumen
New video on YouTube. Possible explanation of the acceleration on the unit built by Al
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tknwdltnB6s

Great work, lumen. 

Does this mean the north pole of the magnet passes while the two north poles of the rotor do, and then the south pole with the south poles on the rotor, or is it north/south--south/north? 

With eight magnets on the rotor, and 8 north south poles, should we "expect" the stator to run at 4 times the speed of the rotor?  (8 divided by 2).

Your system to observe the acceleration and deceleration of the stator is brilliant. 

My next question is, can you adjust the position of the stator, to accelerate/decelerate more?
If so, does this correlate with a change in speed of the rotor and/or an increase in power?
Do you want more acceleration, or less?
If you can get a correlation between the position of the stator and the acceleration, it might be a way to fine tune the motor without just guessing.  Can anyone build a moveable stator, one you can move while you watch the screen?

Using a motor to make it run is a great idea.  Then you can hopefully tune it better and better until it will run without the motor. 

This thread is getting interesting.  Having so many minds thinking about the same thing at the same time, and sharing both successes and failures, and no one knows where it is going to lead. 


We may find that we can draw so much power off the stator's acceleration and deceleration, that running a motor to power the rotor is nothing.
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: geodan on January 17, 2008, 02:24:38 AM
I believe if this unit can run as shown in the video by Al, then a possible reason is the increased bearing drag at the point when the magnetic flux is the highest. This would be when the rotor magnets are just passing the stator.
The stator ring magnets are very close to the bearings and under increased flux, from the rotor magnets,would turn harder. The video was an attempt to show the possible theory.

It's only a theory.



 

that would suggest that we need a lot more nitty gritty detail about Al's construction of stator mags assyTo Replicate his rig...

I didn't see any other stators or dampers as in Al's vid... don't you think that they could be playing a role also?

do you have any plans of doing a more complete rep?

Thanks for the Vid, Very cool of you to share!!
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: blue_energy on January 17, 2008, 02:25:20 AM
Quote
@ All
We finally heard back from our CA machine shop and Jason's, Hank's and mine is guarenteed to be completed Monday and in to mail to us.  So I will wait patiently (Not! LOL) and play this weekend.  I am going to make a cheap and dirty one until mine arrives.  I need something to do, and have my magnets and bearings.  Besides, I want to loosen the bearings a bit.  I am not going to post any video, unless I see something interesting.  The good news, is that the one coming is to exact spec's and materials.  I just need to find some N35's.  I, like Rob, am worried about this.

If anyone has a link to some, of our spec'd size, please post for all of us replicators.  Thank you.



Cheers,

Bruce

Hi Bruce,

I saw these and they looked like they might suffice.  They have one that's 6mm X 15 and N35 that seems to be just about how Al's were described.

http://www.monstermagnete.de/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=Z06 (http://www.monstermagnete.de/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=Z06)
Title: Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
Post by: FunkyJive on January 17, 2008, 02:27:44 AM
I was glad to see that someone has recognised and commented upon the drag imposed by metal adjacent to the cylindrical magnet - as per one of my former posts - thank you Lumen  :)

There's understandably lots of effort to accurately duplicate what has already been demonstrated, though would well be worthwhile at-least minimising the possible negative influences of other factors should repeated attempts fail to get the motor to work.

Also consider that for light roller bearings induced current will create a he