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Author Topic: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??  (Read 1329101 times)

geodan

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #765 on: January 14, 2008, 06:31:43 AM »
Jason

That makes all the sense in the world, adjusting those parameters on the fly will save a lot of time, I think that it will make it much easier to sync up more and more stators one at a time so that they can do more of the work as opposed to dragging the rotor down...

geodan

blue_energy

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #766 on: January 14, 2008, 06:36:51 AM »
Quote
If the rotor is moving approximately 1000rpm and the stator @ 5000rpm. What coil configuration would work best, on the rotor or stator, to generate current.


@iadcw

I think that rather than attach a static coil, an alternator should be used - since then the resistance can be scaled dynamically and experimentally to determine the optimum value without changing the hardware.

nightlife

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #767 on: January 14, 2008, 07:13:49 AM »
"Another replication from ZeroFosillFuel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHy_OeS8qVE

But his stator magnet are way to big in my opinion"

 
 I am ashamed of ZFF for his statement as well as his ability to build a replication of that design. His replication is missing some key elements and is far from what I would consider a fair replication. It was disrespectful and I would hope that he was a fair enough person to recant his video as well as his statement until he builds a proper replication showing the results.

wildgunz

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #768 on: January 14, 2008, 07:43:55 AM »
I think the guy over at Z.F.F. will be feeling like a ass by the end of the week...What a piece of junk...Not even close..

Jdo300

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #769 on: January 14, 2008, 08:11:45 AM »
Quote
If the rotor is moving approximately 1000rpm and the stator @ 5000rpm. What coil configuration would work best, on the rotor or stator, to generate current.


@iadcw

I think that rather than attach a static coil, an alternator should be used - since then the resistance can be scaled dynamically and experimentally to determine the optimum value without changing the hardware.

A good candidate for something like this would be those small DC fan motors that run on two AA batteries. They can actually pump out quite a bit of power if you spin them fast enough, though I wouldn't use them to get any absolute performance measurements. Later when you are ready to build a real generator for this thing, there are lots of good designs out there for low/no drag generators. One of the best is the Gramme Generator. It was manufactured back in the 1860s but was later replaced with the ones we use now.

God Bless,
Jason O

scotty1

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #770 on: January 14, 2008, 09:27:36 AM »
Today i saw this video...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zRN-KCqlBxI&feature=related
Al was taught how to do that....and i can do it too.
The thing is that it is someone else's work...and no permission was given..
I have lots of those videos, but i would not post them because the person who showed me is my friend...who did all the work himself.
What a shame we cannot trust people with our ideas  >:(
This is what Al said "These inventions are yours; I will never 'steal' them or make public without your consent!"
What a shame... ??? 
Scotty.

plasmasd

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #771 on: January 14, 2008, 09:41:47 AM »
The Zero Fossil Fuels guy didnt even atempt to make a similar device. Why dont I just put a stuffed duck on a turntable (with a magnet in its mouth for good measure) to disprove Al's video!!   :D

Prophmaji

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #772 on: January 14, 2008, 09:49:45 AM »
Additional thoughts:

Consider switching it to a higher gear.

Look at small stacked laminates from/for HF and HF-wideband transformer work. Some well made grain oriented silicon steel.

That's what you might want to consider for the Judson dampers. It seems it's all about gating, shear, and polarization.

Not only do you gain control of that, but the speed/timing of the interaction (and inherent hysteresis considerations) as well.

Think it through.

You can even partially wrap the laminate, like cupping a magnet, to direct and control these polarized field considerations.

Even if it fails, especially if it fails spectacularly, it teaches much.

Then the way of modifying the structure to accept other configurations and magnets might seem a bit more clear.

My immediate thoughts are , if it fails, with vertically oriented stacked laminates....is that the rotating magnets on the main disk, require a damper that does not impose such a polarity and field generation upon their native fields, as the stacked laminates will attempt to impose order via interaction. In that case, the round damper would obviously be important. No directionality on that orientation would be key. Then, attempt a round stacked laminate damper in the horizontal orientation.

Either attempt, once again, will teach you much. Attempt both.

robbie47

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #773 on: January 14, 2008, 12:23:46 PM »
The Zero Fossil Fuels guy didnt even atempt to make a similar device. Why dont I just put a stuffed duck on a turntable (with a magnet in its mouth for good measure) to disprove Al's video!!   :D

Let's focus on more constructive comments rather that flaming others.
We might need them for future topics.

dean_mcgowan

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #774 on: January 14, 2008, 12:24:41 PM »
Dear All

Due to reasons beyond his control Al is unable to continue with this lark please return to our regular programming ....

Just Joking !!! (I think)

 ???

Dean

Rosphere

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #775 on: January 14, 2008, 01:05:47 PM »
Sean's setup is pretty nice, but when it gets down to the wire and you want to adjust things more precisely, loosening and tightening the stator mags and moving around won't give the best control, even though it is flexible. The design I have in mind would be very similar to what Sean has, but only I would use screw-adjustable stator mountings so that I could not only precisely move the stators (both circumferentially and radially), but I could make these adjustments while the motor is running. That way we can quickly fine tune it and see what positions work and which don't...

Good idea, Jason.  You know, the base of these things make great sounding boards.  Even in the videos we can hear the acceleration or deceleration of the device.  We hardly need the tachometer, but it is good to have.  Adjusting on the fly is a great way to find the optimum distances and angles.  However, as a metastable FE device, I fear that we may need more investment than this to keep it going.

What I mean is that we may need to invest in, or borrow, some high speed cameras.  This auto synchronization of stator angles without need of any sort of gearing is where, I believe, the magic and metastability lie.  It is the only thing that makes this design unique and promising.  I wonder what the stators are doing with respect to the rotor magnets during an acceleration phase.  It would be nice to be able to record real time data of the positions of the rotor and stators.  Now that I think of it, we would not need the camera if we had good, synchronized position/time data.

Let us say that we have 8 magnets on the rotor, as with he current design.  I want to know at what angle the driving stator makes at exactly those 8 positions when the rotor is accelerating, decelerating, and gradually loaded to control an acceleration run up.  This way we can both understand more about exactly how this design works and start to design control mechanisms to accompany the PTO, so that we do not kill the golden goose when we want to tap some power.  Blue_energy had some ideas about how to do this in an earlier post.

...off to work now.  :( :)

plasmasd

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #776 on: January 14, 2008, 01:05:52 PM »
Sorry if that comment came across as negative, I just think it hillarious that when you go through Al's material and read that an alignment difference in millimeters between the rotating stators and the rotor made the device "work as shown," that a device that does not resemble the original is being used to discount it. Al's device may very well be fake, or achieving it's rotation as a result of high EMF in his basement, but until someone builds a device exactly like the original, no one can claim whether it works or doesn't.     

ebswift

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #777 on: January 14, 2008, 01:27:46 PM »
The Zero Fossil Fuels guy didnt even atempt to make a similar device. Why dont I just put a stuffed duck on a turntable (with a magnet in its mouth for good measure) to disprove Al's video!!   :D

Let's focus on more constructive comments rather that flaming others.
We might need them for future topics.
Yep, like the "Redneck OU channel"!  Surely if ZPE wants to have his own mythbusters channel (and not the redneck mythbusters channel) he's gotta do better than ferrite magnets & superglue where the spec required neo's, fairly tight tolerances, tested air gaps, AND the alloy dampers.  Sorry, but flaming that particular video is nothing but mandatory - I'd expect nothing less.

edit: or perhaps I've overlooked the attempt at comedy?

jcims

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #778 on: January 14, 2008, 01:50:30 PM »

Good idea, Jason.  You know, the base of these things make great sounding boards.  Even in the videos we can hear the acceleration or deceleration of the device.  We hardly need the tachometer, but it is good to have.

You can make a poor man's tach using your sound card, an audio transformer and a CdS photocell (or phototransistor only, no transformer).  Radio Shack has the parts:

# Audio Transformer (8:1000) Radio Shack (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103254 Part# 273-1380)
# CdS Photoresistor Radio Shack (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062590 Part# 276-1657)

Here is the circuit:

(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9783/circuitjb8.png)

You can run one of these circuits on each the left and right channel to monitor the RPMs on both pieces of equipment.  The output is recorded as a .wav file and you can either use Sonic Visualizer (www.sonicvisualizer.org) or some simple .wav file processing to get the RPMs back out into useful data.

xpress

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #779 on: January 14, 2008, 02:26:02 PM »
Hello fellow seekers.
Got my magnets today 14th ordered from KJMagnetics. I'm in Sweden. Orderdate was January 5th.

Been following the developments since it was posted on PESwiki. Was very convinced to attempt make a duplicate....now undecided on the matter to make a duplicate or not, as many competent people seem to be on it. Everybody is busy so am I .

Does it strike anyone as odd that no other video of a running machine has been released after the initial one ?
With the thirst of information out there - and the expressed intent to make this Open Source - why no more videos of running machines ?

I guess we all will know within the next 7 days.