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Author Topic: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??  (Read 944740 times)

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3060 on: July 11, 2017, 11:30:18 AM »

This is the case, as I see it. It might be wrong, but this is what I see:
The pendulum is dropped at 2 o'clock. It makes a movement clockwise up to 12 o'clock.
Now, 12 o'clock is the new dropping point.
Then the pendulum return counterclockwise at 4 o'clock.


This can only be because the forces (magnetic or gravitational doesn't matter) that pulls on the mass on the pendulum, is offset. Nothing more to it.


Vidar

Overunity is simply more energy out than in.
Perpetual motion means it keeps on going....
You have missed the very simple principle that the pendulum demonstrates.
No pendulum will go past its dropped point. So where does that extra
2 hrs of lifting come from?  It is clearly more out than in.....

Norman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3060 on: July 11, 2017, 11:30:18 AM »

Offline citfta

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3061 on: July 11, 2017, 11:47:07 AM »
Overunity is simply more energy out than in.
Perpetual motion means it keeps on going....
You have missed the very simple principle that the pendulum demonstrates.
No pendulum will go past its dropped point. So where does that extra
2 hrs of lifting come from? It is clearly more out than in.....

Norman

It is not clearly more out than in.  If it was, then it would return to a higher position on the right side.  As it is, it doesn't even get close to the starting position on the right side.  Whether by tilting or magnetic attraction you have only shifted the center of the swing to the left.  You have not added any energy.  Sorry, but your analysis is incorrect.


Offline norman6538

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3062 on: July 11, 2017, 02:59:33 PM »
Webby, thank you for some sincere discussion.

 

To answer this question we would need to know how much lifting force Mr. Hand is applying to lift the pendulum up to the raised start point,

Any weight could do the same thing as the hand and  that could be measured.
And according to pendulum physics that work will then get used up when the
weight falls and then goes back up past 6 oclock. But the point is that no known
pendulum will pass 10 oclock and go on to noon unless there is some work force
doing that. And in this case it can only be the permanent magnets. I can assure you
that the hand did not push the pendulum down and add any extra power because
on one  case I used a stick as a catch and pulled it out to the right and it behaved
the same way - past 10 on to noon and then slowly back down to 6 oclock.
Think about slowly back down to 6 oclock.  There is some force preventing it from
going back past 6  oclock to 5 or 4.... And I pourport that the opposite of that
force has pushed it past 10 oclock on to noon.

No it will not go past noon because there is a sticky spot.
No it has no useable energy because if the balance is disturbed by taking power
out it will get stuck at one of the magnets....
It might be possible that a very small amount of work could be taken out but
I see no reason to spend any serious effort on that because I doubt  it is
scaleable.

Norman

 and then we would need to know how much force can be collected from the pendulum falling down from the 12:00 position it reaches.

With your testbed those could be very difficult to measure especially since I think the force is not a constant force and changes with the angle of change, and your testbed is rather "light", meaning not much force,,, by looking at your video that is what I think I see.

It could be that Mr. Hand is putting in a lot more energy than what could be collect from the return fall but without measurements there is no telling if that is true or not.
Have you tried to let it go "over the top"??  can it go past the 12:00 position,, and if so does it get pulled back?

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3063 on: July 11, 2017, 03:10:29 PM »
If there was no loss, the pendulum would have enough velocity to swing back to start position.
The magnets at 12 o'clock will slow down the return and cause the pendulum to loose velocity. Loosing velocity means loosing kinetic energy.
Without loss, this pendulum is in perfect balance.


Vidar


Offline webby1

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3064 on: July 11, 2017, 04:08:31 PM »
Webby, thank you for some sincere discussion.

Any weight could do the same thing as the hand and  that could be measured.
And according to pendulum physics that work will then get used up when the
weight falls and then goes back up past 6 oclock. But the point is that no known
pendulum will pass 10 oclock and go on to noon unless there is some work force
doing that. And in this case it can only be the permanent magnets. I can assure you
that the hand did not push the pendulum down and add any extra power because
on one  case I used a stick as a catch and pulled it out to the right and it behaved
the same way - past 10 on to noon and then slowly back down to 6 oclock.
Think about slowly back down to 6 oclock.  There is some force preventing it from
going back past 6  oclock to 5 or 4.... And I pourport that the opposite of that
force has pushed it past 10 oclock on to noon.

No it will not go past noon because there is a sticky spot.
No it has no useable energy because if the balance is disturbed by taking power
out it will get stuck at one of the magnets....
It might be possible that a very small amount of work could be taken out but
I see no reason to spend any serious effort on that because I doubt  it is
scaleable.

Norman


The magnets are doing "work" in that they are acting like a spring,, they store some input and return it, same thing with gravity.

What gets messy to visualize is where all the forces are and how they are interacting.  In a lot of stuff I have built and played with I make what I call "virtual" arms and pivots and stuff, that makes it easier for me to "see" what is where with what I am playing with, to "see" the path the force takes, the force vectors and all that stuff.

Most of the things I have done are basically useless,, except for the understanding that I get from doing them,, learning.  This knowledge is not useless even if I was totally wrong with what I thought,, I now have new ways of looking at things that I did not have before I played with whatever it was I was playing with.

If you look at your "hockey stick" lever,, the pendulum weight is not directly underneath the pivot but you can visualize an arm from the pivot that does go directly to the center of mass on the end of the arm,, thus a virtual arm.  You can look at the magnetic forces and do something similar and then create a virtual path that the magnetic force interaction has\follows.  You could remove the "weight" by extending the pendulum arm up past the pivot and balancing that,, now you can use Mr. Hand to actually feel the magnetic force interaction through the path of rotation.

Take what you have done and ask yourself questions,, what if,,,,  What if some kind of pulse was provided at the sticky spot,, how much of a pulse would it need to be,, how much of the speed of the arm can be maintained if a pulse were applied at what point,, stuff like that.  I mean what if there is a point in the travel of the arm where an external input can keep or maintain the arm rotational velocity easier than elsewhere.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3064 on: July 11, 2017, 04:08:31 PM »
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Offline norman6538

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3065 on: July 11, 2017, 09:49:41 PM »
WEBBY1 said
"If you look at your "hockey stick" lever,, the pendulum weight is not directly underneath the pivot but you can visualize an arm from the pivot that does go directly to the center of mass on the end of the arm,, thus a virtual arm.  You can look at the magnetic forces and do something similar and then create a virtual path that the magnetic force interaction has\follows.  You could remove the "weight" by extending the pendulum arm up past the pivot and balancing that,, now you can use Mr. Hand to actually feel the magnetic force interaction through the path of rotation."

You are very astute Webby.... the pivot is a little to the side but the white piece of paper
with the arrow represents its center point where it hangs straight down otherwise it would have been deceptive. I made this about 9 years ago and have showed it to
 various folks and all they can do is shake their head and say "its a very sick pendulum". Part of what makes it work is there is one vertical magnet on the
pendulum and the others are flat and they have to be placed at the right distance
from the pendulum and at the right gap from the pendulum. If the polarity of
the pendulum magnet is changed it will not work.

I have another permanent magnetic embodiment that uses a magnet attracted to
metal and is about 200% OU  - work out over work in - but not  enough to make it reciprocate. From what I have seen it  takes about 300-400% OU
 to do the setting and resetting to get it to self reciprocate. 

Because of these 2 devices I know all energy is not conserved and permanent
magnets can do useful work.

Norman

 

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