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Author Topic: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??  (Read 944743 times)

Offline hdeasy

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3045 on: July 09, 2017, 09:09:04 AM »
@Bertoa: Yes, it would need expert timing (the Kung Fu of energy). What you could do is have opto switches and servo motors adjusting the speed of the swaying motion to keep the wheels synchronized. The weights swaying would get you the first approximation and if you had an truly excellent craftsman (not that you aren't!) you could set up the weights precisely with the right offset and size and exquisitely precise initial conditions to get it working without electrical adjustments. But even with the adjustments - they would be low energy as the main energy is already there from the weights.

So with fine adjustments it could work. With large enough wheels would could accelerate up to some good speed and you would have a few kW. Yes it's all just on paper now. I am also having another system (inertial - flywheels with motors and a few extras) built with 2 teams - a company and a colleague in Tenerife. It's a race to see who wins that one. The company is too busy with short staffing in the Summer holidays so the islander may beat them.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3045 on: July 09, 2017, 09:09:04 AM »

Offline Bertoa

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3046 on: July 10, 2017, 12:06:15 AM »
Hi Low-Q, the bottom line that nothing can change the law of nature is true for systems. Law, thruth and systems are all human concepts/strategies to deal with the world but is not reality itself.
Scientific paradigms are beacons on a sea of possibilities. Nobody can force me to sail on beacons. In case of the PMM you can better ask the question what setup can supply work? Maybe some parts provide work as a catalyst in a (well timed) process of rotation. In that situation the remark of member forest fits perfect by suggesting to add more axis of freedom to movement.
A flywheel cannot provide energy; but is helpful to supply work at the right moment, by pushing a magnet over a dead point in a PMM device. It will lose something but the reward is maybe more.
The word maybe, the doubt but also experiment and knowledge; this is the very core of science! At this forum people are open and plucked enough to thrust their own intuition. Freedom is an an other word for nothing left to lose, tells a song. In that position we can only gain.


Online profitis

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3047 on: July 10, 2017, 10:44:44 AM »
"Freedom is an an other word for
nothing left to lose, tells a song. In that position we
can only gain."

You said it berea

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3048 on: July 10, 2017, 03:36:41 PM »

What you are saying, sort of, is that even if we experience that a mass is gravitationally attracted to another mass, it might in spite of evedence, not be true.
The apple fell down. This is true from our human perspective and experience. Does that mean we don't know enough to say this is the ultimate truth? Will the apple in some occation fall upwards into the sky?
The same analogy can be applied to the conservation of energy. Humans have sufficient knowledge to say this is the ultimate truth.
The same analogy can be transferred to magnetism. How many hobbyists haven't spent years of their life to figure out how to debunk well established physical evedence without success?


There is no good reason why we should continue to debunk reality. Figuratively speaking you believe that the earth is flat ( yes there are people calling themself flat earthers - how stupid is that?)


Vidar

Hi Low-Q, the bottom line that nothing can change the law of nature is true for systems. Law, thruth and systems are all human concepts/strategies to deal with the world but is not reality itself.
Scientific paradigms are beacons on a sea of possibilities. Nobody can force me to sail on beacons. In case of the PMM you can better ask the question what setup can supply work? Maybe some parts provide work as a catalyst in a (well timed) process of rotation. In that situation the remark of member forest fits perfect by suggesting to add more axis of freedom to movement.
A flywheel cannot provide energy; but is helpful to supply work at the right moment, by pushing a magnet over a dead point in a PMM device. It will lose something but the reward is maybe more.
The word maybe, the doubt but also experiment and knowledge; this is the very core of science! At this forum people are open and plucked enough to thrust their own intuition. Freedom is an an other word for nothing left to lose, tells a song. In that position we can only gain.


Offline hdeasy

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3049 on: July 10, 2017, 05:51:42 PM »
Conservation of energy is a load of hooey. It's a remnant of the steam age. Before steam there was no real concept of energy. But when the steam engines began to churn out energy, people started to think. Then the first results came in that energy could change its nature from electrical to mechanical or heat or potential energy but the total amount always remained the same. So far so good. But in my opinion and that of many others they were too hasty to rush into print with a generalization from a few special cases to a general principle. Was any attempt made to find the exceptions that tested (old English: proved) the rule?
Nah - it was too comfortable to construct a new hallowed cow. So they built their holy cow of the gold of the oil industry and wo betide a Moses who should smash the tablets and rail against their folly.

Flame off. But indeed there are many ways to free energy as the threads here testify. My magnetic way is one and I will soon have my simulation in shape to show it definitely works according to standard physics. My other system, the inertial one, has now 3 groups poised to build it. The race is on there. I know that Steorn's systems also function - they are just so weak that it's hard to show. My inertial one is easy peasy and will churn out 2 to 3 kW from 30W input. And in vacuo possibly a 100 times more efficient. This stuff can't be stopped by holier-than-thou pseuds. Paul Babcock, Jim Murray & co. have some powerful systems to avoid CEMF. Serps etc. So the holy cow is crumbling.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3049 on: July 10, 2017, 05:51:42 PM »
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Offline norman6538

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3050 on: July 10, 2017, 05:55:54 PM »
Hi Low-Q, the bottom line that nothing can change the law of nature is true for systems.

The law of nature is violated in this pendulum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FzK2XKQ-74
it swings higher than its dropped point.

Norman

Offline Bertoa

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3051 on: July 10, 2017, 06:54:11 PM »
You know better than me that this kind of discussion is going on as long as modern science (and for sure this forum) exists. It is not that I doubt well established physical evidence but under certain conditions a 500kg glider is falling upwards into the sky. This conditions are also scientifically explainable but till about 1900 this was impossible. People on this forum explore certain conditions. I spent 80 euro to build a test setup of a PMM. How stupid is that? Curiosity does even costs people's lives. Low-Q, thank's for your views on this theme. This forum is worth visiting because of geeks who spend time and money to do unconventional stuff. Ok, enough of this...
My next project is a test setup of a permanent magnet amplifier. The goal is to explore the interaction between fast rotating magnet vortexes, torque and movement in different axes. For this device I use 2 the same DC motors connected to a V/A meter so I can measure under all conditions the in- output power in Watt. The actuator wheel is freely movable so I can search for the best result/efficiency in the system.
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3051 on: July 10, 2017, 06:54:11 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3052 on: July 10, 2017, 10:57:40 PM »

Well, the pendulum stops. How can that be ::) ?


Vidar

Offline citfta

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3053 on: July 10, 2017, 11:30:09 PM »
Well, the pendulum stops. How can that be ::) ?


Vidar

It stops because the video is faked.  In order to get the pendulum to swing higher on the left than it started from the board is not vertical.  It is laying back and tilted slightly to the left.  It is obvious that is what is going on because the pendulum only swings back slightly past what should be the bottom of the arc when it should at least go as high as it started if the magnets were actually doing anything.

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3054 on: July 10, 2017, 11:41:59 PM »

Yup. I know. The pendulum is already "charged" with magnetic potential. So when the pendulum is raised to its starting point, its potential energy is more than just gravitational.
That also results in a much lower position than the starting point when it returns, because the magnetic potential offsets the pendulum with a few degrees clockwise.


How would this forum be like without competent people like us citfta. LOL  ;D

It stops because the video is faked.  In order to get the pendulum to swing higher on the left than it started from the board is not vertical.  It is laying back and tilted slightly to the left.  It is obvious that is what is going on because the pendulum only swings back slightly past what should be the bottom of the arc when it should at least go as high as it started if the magnets were actually doing anything.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3054 on: July 10, 2017, 11:41:59 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3055 on: July 11, 2017, 12:04:06 AM »

May I provide a little advice?
Be careful when you use the VA-meter. When we deal with electric motors and generators, we also deals with inductors.
Inductors is well known to scew voltage and current out of phase.
You must consider this phase. If not, you will get wrong data if you only look at the voltage and current readings, and then straight forward multiply them. Few VA-meters can deal with correct energy readings due to this.


An extreme example is the parallell connection between a capacitor and inductor. These have together a resonant frequency with a given Q-factor. The less the losses in resistance, the higher the Q.
High Q means there is easy to build up a resonance. Supplying a signal to these components that has the same frequency, you measure next to zero current. However, the current flow between the capacitor and inductor is very high.
The low input current is a result of almost 180° phase shift between voltage and current inside the circuit.


In a serial connection, you will read high input current and low voltage, but voltage over the capacitor an inductor is very high.


Very easy to make inaccurate conclusions if you don't take care of everything during a measurement.


Vidar

You know better than me that this kind of discussion is going on as long as modern science (and for sure this forum) exists. It is not that I doubt well established physical evidence but under certain conditions a 500kg glider is falling upwards into the sky. This conditions are also scientifically explainable but till about 1900 this was impossible. People on this forum explore certain conditions. I spent 80 euro to build a test setup of a PMM. How stupid is that? Curiosity does even costs people's lives. Low-Q, thank's for your views on this theme. This forum is worth visiting because of geeks who spend time and money to do unconventional stuff. Ok, enough of this...
My next project is a test setup of a permanent magnet amplifier. The goal is to explore the interaction between fast rotating magnet vortexes, torque and movement in different axes. For this device I use 2 the same DC motors connected to a V/A meter so I can measure under all conditions the in- output power in Watt. The actuator wheel is freely movable so I can search for the best result/efficiency in the system.

Offline norman6538

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3056 on: July 11, 2017, 12:30:45 AM »
It stops because the video is faked. 

This pendulum is not faked. All of you cannot make a simple observation.
1. notice how the pendulum moves.... down normally and then up past
the dropped point and then back down very softly and then sits at the bottom.

2. If you were really observant you would have to first say that is very unusual....

It if very clear that clockwise the pendulum looks quite normal but not
counter clockwise.

Now I leave the challenge to you to explain that.....

The really sad thing is that no one has asked to see it in person.

No it is not perpetual motion but no normal pendulum can do this.....

Where does the energy come from that pushes the pendulum past
its dropped point

I am very diasppointed in the lack of curiosity in this device that
simply and clearly show you in front of your eyes that not all energy
is conserved.....

Permanent manets do have potential energy.....

the main point of this video is to show that permanent magnets can
do work and get past the sticky spot and not get stuck at the sticky spot.


PLEASE wake up and get out of your narrow tunnel.


Norman


In order to get the pendulum to swing higher on the left than it started from the board is not vertical.  It is laying back and tilted slightly to the left. 


The board is tilted straight back - not sideways.  The reason for that no one has even
asked but I'll explain it to you for free.  The gravity and magnetic forces have
to be balanced to make it work. In this setup gravity is stronger than the magnets
and it has to be weakened. And if the magnets get too close then the sticky spot
will take over and accomplish nothing.

Norman


It is obvious that is what is going on because the pendulum only swings back slightly past what should be the bottom of the arc when it should at least go as high as it started if the magnets were actually doing anything.


Offline Low-Q

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3057 on: July 11, 2017, 01:11:15 AM »

@norman6538
Over unity apply ONLY to systems that can produce more energy than it consumes. The pendulum in question is NOT overunity. Because it stops.
I have also explained this pendulum a few posts further up.


Vidar

Offline norman6538

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3058 on: July 11, 2017, 02:00:32 AM »
@norman6538
Over unity apply ONLY to systems that can produce more energy than it consumes. The pendulum in question is NOT overunity. Because it stops.
I have also explained this pendulum a few posts further up.


Vidar

Overunity is simply more energy out than in.
Perpetual motion means it keeps on going....
You have missed the very simple principle that the pendulum demonstrates.
No pendulum will go past its dropped point. So where does that extra
2 hrs of lifting come from?  It is clearly more out than in.....

Norman





Offline webby1

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3059 on: July 11, 2017, 06:50:00 AM »

2 hrs of lifting come from?  It is clearly more out than in.....

Norman

To answer this question we would need to know how much lifting force Mr. Hand is applying to lift the pendulum up to the raised start point, and then we would need to know how much force can be collected from the pendulum falling down from the 12:00 position it reaches.

With your testbed those could be very difficult to measure especially since I think the force is not a constant force and changes with the angle of change, and your testbed is rather "light", meaning not much force,,, by looking at your video that is what I think I see.

It could be that Mr. Hand is putting in a lot more energy than what could be collect from the return fall but without measurements there is no telling if that is true or not.
Have you tried to let it go "over the top"??  can it go past the 12:00 position,, and if so does it get pulled back?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #3059 on: July 11, 2017, 06:50:00 AM »

 

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